Common Core....wow...just wow.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Someone on a local homeschooling board linked this today. I have been so busy lately that I honestly haven't had a chance to dig into the meat of common core...I know what they "say" it's purpose is, but haven't looked at samples or compared changes. After watching this clip I'm inspired to find out more.

 

The first thing that struck me was the fact that this seems to undermine the authority of the parent. Telling a child to use the word "nag" to describe a parent's instructions to clean a room seems counterproductive to creating a harmonious home. Also, teaching a child, especially one this young, to use emotion to get what they want? WHAT! I've spent the last 14 years teaching mine not to manipulate with emotion! :huh: These samples actually did emotionally manipulate me...they made me angry.

 

However, my reaction to this was so strong that I don't want to get all worked up over something that might be isolated or not actually indicative of what common core is doing. So, I'm asking...is this what common core's purpose is? To teach children to abandon clear reasoning and logic in favor of emotional manipulation?

 

( Oh, and I know nothing of the site that this clip is on. )

[stripe]

So, I'm asking...is this what common core's purpose is? To teach children to abandon clear reasoning and logic in favor of emotional manipulation?

Is the common core's purpose to turn everyone into communists?!

 

I don't know why the creators of this video are cautioning against emotional manipulation....when that's the scare tactic used in the video and a good portion of the anti-common core rhetoric. Shouting "Communist takeover!" and "Muslim takeover!" (rather incompatible views, anyway) every time the government in general or the president proposes something is a rather poor excuse for discussion.

 

For the record, the textbook they show is put out by Zaner-Bloser.

 

I would recommend reading these articles by E. D. Hirsch, who long ago advocated having a common core, and was seen as very conservative and old fashioned when he did so.

http://www.washingto...ndards-defense/

http://voices.washin...core-stand.html

[Ellie]

I have no doubt that you're right.

 

Many years ago, Phyliss Schlafly published a book called "Child Abuse in the Classroom." I didn't read it for awhile, because I had misunderstood the title. I thought it was about actual physical abuse in the classroom, and since I was homeschooling, I didn't think I needed to read it. Turns out that it is the actual transcripts of a series of hearings held across the U.S. Here's a review. It wasn't an easy book to get into--it's transcripts of hearings, not a novel, lol--and I don't know that I completely agree with everything that she said, but again, it's actual transcripts, no commentary. I read the whole book in one night.

 

Common Core is just like the carp I read about in Child Abuse in the Classroom. :glare:

[Coco_Clark]

That clip is overblown and inflammatory. "Common core" didn't write that workbook, it looks like Zaner-Bloser did. The workbook just happens to align with common core standards. I'm not some common core fan-girl. Kids learn all over the spectrum, standardizing education won't work. But this video makes it out to be way more insidious than it is--which is just trying to get all the states going at the same pace.

 

If you are actually interested in what common core is, it's available for anyone to read (and doesn't include dressed up nazi photoes to create fear and panic, like this website did). http://www.corestandards.org/

[Ellie]

Is the common core's purpose to turn everyone into communists?!

 

I don't know why the creators of this video are cautioning against emotional manipulation....when that's the scare tactic used in the video and a good portion of the anti-common core rhetoric. Shouting "Communist takeover!" and "Muslim takeover!" (rather incompatible views, anyway) every time the government in general or the president proposes something is a rather poor excuse for discussion.

 

For the record, the textbook they show is put out by Zaner-Bloser.

 

I would recommend reading these articles by E. D. Hirsch, who long ago advocated having a common core, and was seen as very conservative and old fashioned when he did so.

http://www.washingto...ndards-defense/

http://voices.washin...core-stand.html

 

Did you watch the video? Because there's very little actual commentary (or "indoctrination") in the narrator's comments. You can see for yourself exactly what the teachers are supposed to be doing and saying. Most public schools are going to be using materials similar to ZB.

[Corraleno]

Well, the title of the video — COMMUNIST INDOCTRINATION INCLUDED IN COMMON CORE FOR FIRST GRADERS!!! — combined with the photoshopped picture of Hitler Youth wearing Obama buttons should tell you all you need to know about that site. :001_rolleyes:

 

The hyperbole, fear-mongering, and misinformation in that clip are so over the top it's absurd. The way the guy practically spits the word "social" is hysterical — not every use of that word is code for "socialism." He also objects to the words "growth" and "change" — I'm not sure when those became code words for communism.

 

It appears to me that the unit they are discussing is designed to teach analysis of language — the exercises show that writers use stronger, more emotional words in order to connect with the reader and better get their point across. One of the exercises — which they conveniently don't read — it to find emotional words in advertisements and to note that most advertisements rely on emotional words. This is a critical thinking skill — the opposite of "indoctrination." The question about which word — "tells" or "nags" — is a more emotional word is NOT designed to "threaten parental authority," and to imply that is beyond absurd.

 

One of the most important components of Common Core is the focus on critical thinking skills, and this video only serves to prove how desperately those skills are needed in this country. :glare:

 

Jackie

[5LittleMonkeys]

For the record I completely glossed over the whole communism thing. I don't think common core is that insidious. (At least I hope it isn't.) Is this indicative of how Zaner-Bloser materials have always been written or has it been changed to specifically align with common core?

[Cricket]

 

 

Did you watch the video? Because there's very little actual commentary (or "indoctrination") in the narrator's comments. You can see for yourself exactly what the teachers are supposed to be doing and saying. Most public schools are going to be using materials similar to ZB.

 

 

I watched the video. It is very different from what I was expecting after seeing the commentary on the blog. Not sensationalized at all. I think these kinds of assignments are ridiculous for first and third graders. Teaching them persuasive writing? Isn't this more for the rhetoric stage? I'm more of a CM girl though. Fill kids heads with inspiring ideas now and later, when they have more understanding of the world and hopefully more wisdom, they will actually have something to say.

 

I agree that I spend half my life trying to teach my kids that emotional manipulation is not a good thing. Heavens, emotional language is something most kids need less of! Lol Every year I notice this as my dh coaches Little League.

[Erin]

Did you watch the video? Because there's very little actual commentary (or "indoctrination") in the narrator's comments.

I did. And I saw the narrator making a running commentary throughout the entire video.

Are you sure you watched the one linked in the OP?

 

I'm not seeing what the problem is with this text, really. It's probably well over the head of most first graders, and I could agree if that were the complaint.

But why should a first grader not learn the importance of word choice?? The exercises were for persuasive writing, afterall. How does a student learn to write persuasively if we don't teach them persuasion??

 

And how else will they learn to smell BS when they see titles like "Communist Indoctrination!!"? :lol:

[stripe]

Pairing anything with a photo of Hitler youth is designed to manipulate and is an example of fallacious argumentation (guilt by association / reductio ad Hitlerum).

 

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

 

The idea that concern for others is communist or anti-American or anti-Christian is frightening in and of itself.

[Corraleno]

And how else will they learn to smell BS when they see titles like "Communist Indoctrination!!"? :lol:

 

Hence the fear! If kids learn critical thinking skills, nutcases like this blogger will be out of a job.

 

The idea that concern for others is communist or anti-American or anti-Christian is frightening in and of itself.

 

No kidding. It does not bode well for the future of this country. :sad:

 

Jackie

[Ellie]

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I did. And I saw the narrator making a running commentary throughout the entire video.

Are you sure you watched the one linked in the OP?

 

You're right; he was commenting. But he was also pointing to the clearly shown teacher's manual, so that viewers could see for themselves. That's where the problem is.

 

I'm not seeing what the problem is with this text, really. It's probably well over the head of most first graders, and I could agree if that were the complaint.

But why should a first grader not learn the importance of word choice?? The exercises were for persuasive writing, afterall. How does a student learn to write persuasively if we don't teach them persuasion??

 

Is it important to implant in the children's minds the idea that parents "nag" them into cleaning their rooms instead of "telling" them to do so? Could not the author of the instructional have used different examples to achieve the same thing, language that would have modeled better attitudes?

 

And how else will they learn to smell BS when they see titles like "Communist Indoctrination!!"? :lol:

 

:lol:

[Corraleno]

Is it important to implant in the children's minds the idea that parents "nag" them into cleaning their rooms instead of "telling" them to do so? Could not the author of the instructional have used different examples to achieve the same thing, language that would have modeled better attitudes?

 

The workbook does not ask students to describe their own parents' instructions as nagging. It merely asks them which word is more emotional, and it uses an example (cleaning one's room) that most 6 year olds would be familiar with.

 

Of course the authors could have chosen a different example — but why should they need to? I find the idea that one sentence in one unit of one 1st grade subject could change a child's attitude towards his parents and undermine their authority quite ridiculous. And it wouldn't have made any difference anyway — bloggers like that would just choose a different example to twist and manipulate to suit their agenda.

 

Jackie

[Cricket]

And how else will they learn to smell BS when they see titles like "Communist Indoctrination!!"? :lol:

 

My first thought was that they took the lesson to heart: first anger, then fear, then joy. Maybe they skipped the joy part, but I can fill in my own joy--I get to homeschool! :-)

[PachiSusan]

I find the assessment of changes in attitude throughout the year that the teacher fills out more troubling.

[Embassy]

I watched the video and I find this whole thing to be much ado about nothing.

 

I don't understand the connection with a child solving social problems and communism. As for the emotional words, I've talked about that with my kids at that age and younger. We evaluate advertisements and their manipulative words. That is called critical thinking skills. I use emotional words all the time when I write copy for products. It is a good thing for a child to learn. That would be called persuasive writing.

 

What is this fear of communism in our country? I thought McCarthy was dead.

[Corraleno]

I find the assessment of changes in attitude throughout the year that the teacher fills out more troubling.

 

 

They are VERY cagey in how they present these "assessments." E.g. they only show one box in the table — the one about using first person plural — and keep the rest blurry. As for the topics on the other page — I fail to see the "communist" implications of "Do they work well with others to solve group problems?" How is that a bad thing? And hasn't that been a pretty standard assessment topic in schools for decades? :confused1:

 

All my elementary school report cards had categories like "works well with others," "manages time well," "completes work on time," and even (gasp) "respects authority" (I always struggled with that one :tongue_smilie:). I don't remember anyone panicking over "communist indoctrination" way back then. Of course, we didn't have Glenn Beck, the internet, or Fox News back then, either...

 

Jackie

[mamabear2three]

I have to say that while it is not age appropriate, the idea of explicitly teaching persuasive writing by explaining how emotional words elicit a response, is a great idea. When I taught 4th and 5th grades in the public schools, the curriculum I had to use was rather ambiguous about explaining why something was a better persuasion. I cannot imagine trying to get a first grader to do that without simultaneously pulling my hair out...

[PachiSusan]

They are VERY cagey in how they present these "assessments." E.g. they only show one box in the table — the one about using first person plural — and keep the rest blurry. As for the topics on the other page — I fail to see the "communist" implications of "Do they work well with others to solve group problems?" How is that a bad thing? And hasn't that been a pretty standard assessment topic in schools for decades? :confused1:

 

All my elementary school report cards had categories like "works well with others," "manages time well," "completes work on time," and even (gasp) "respects authority" (I always struggled with that one :tongue_smilie:). I don't remember anyone panicking over "communist indoctrination" way back then. Of course, we didn't have Glenn Beck, the internet, or Fox News back then, either...

 

Jackie

 

I never said anything about Communism and you have no idea if I watch Fox News or Glenn Beck or anything else.

 

I have my opinions and concerns about this, and you don't share them. That's fine. That's how America works. :)

[Corraleno]

 

I never said anything about Communism and you have no idea if I watch Fox News or Glenn Beck or anything else.

 

I was not implying that you did.

 

The blogger explicitly claims that the workbooks include "communist indoctrination" and uses those assessments to back up his claim. I was merely stating my opinion that (1) there is no connection whatsoever between communism and "working well with others," and (2) it is curious that an "assessment category" widely used in schools in the 50s (at the height of McCarthyism, no less) without raising any eyebrows, is now seen by some people as evidence of communist indoctrination.

 

Jackie

[PachiSusan]

Fair enough. I didn't see this video for the first time at any scare mongering communist blog and it wasn't titled as such, so I didn't even notice the titling here.

 

 

 

I was not implying that you did.

 

The blogger explicitly claims that the workbooks include "communist indoctrination" and uses those assessments to back up his claim. I was merely stating my opinion that (1) there is no connection whatsoever between communism and "working well with others," and (2) it is curious that an "assessment category" widely used in schools in the 50s (at the height of McCarthyism, no less) without raising any eyebrows, is now seen by some people as evidence of communist indoctrination.

 

Jackie

[dmmm]

Yes, one video shows the whole story. Take it to be the whole truth, don't read anything else, form an opinion, insist it is fact, stick your head in the ground like an ostrich. I hope all of us homeschoolers are teaching our kids to form "facts" the same way.

[stripe]

All my elementary school report cards had categories like "works well with others," "manages time well," "completes work on time," and even (gasp) "respects authority" (I always struggled with that one :tongue_smilie:).

Didn't you know that only Nazis care about being on time?

[Farrar]

I saw that go around, unfortunately. I'm so sick of the Common Core conspiracy nuts. It's just a nasty diversion. And like all the diversions in the education debate, it only hurts education that we waste time as a society discussing it. I wish people would debate CC on its merits, not on imaginary communist/Muslim indoctrinations.

 

For the record, I've grown to really dislike CC for various reasons, but these sorts of things always make me reconsider because they're so nutty.

[stripe]

Well, the title of the video — COMMUNIST INDOCTRINATION INCLUDED IN COMMON CORE FOR FIRST GRADERS!!! — combined with the photoshopped picture of Hitler Youth wearing Obama buttons should tell you all you need to know about that site. :001_rolleyes:

 

Ha! I totally missed the Obama buttons! Yep, if there's one thing neo-Nazis can get behind, it's the fruits of miscegenation.

[PachiSusan]

I saw that go around, unfortunately. I'm so sick of the Common Core conspiracy nuts. It's just a nasty diversion. And like all the diversions in the education debate, it only hurts education that we waste time as a society discussing it. I wish people would debate CC on its merits, not on imaginary communist/Muslim indoctrinations.

 

For the record, I've grown to really dislike CC for various reasons, but these sorts of things always make me reconsider because they're so nutty.

 

 

I actually agree with you. There are many other reasons to dislike CCSS without bringing in agenda.

[PachiSusan]

Yes, one video shows the whole story. Take it to be the whole truth, don't read anything else, form an opinion, insist it is fact, stick your head in the ground like an ostrich. I hope all of us homeschoolers are teaching our kids to form "facts" the same way.

 

 

Perhaps I'm reading into what YOU are saying, and if I am, forgive me.

 

I don't know anyone who has watched ONE video and took it on faith and is now anti-CCSS. The people I know have come to the conclusions through faithful research. I wouldn't expect anything different from the learned people here.

[kristen18]

Before I watch the video, I would like to share a couple of things that popped into my head while reading the OP.

 

About 8 years ago, I started taking some classes in a teacher certification program. It was for people who already had degrees, and wanted to get certified to teach high school. I had to write a lesson plan in one of the classes, and they made it pretty clear what they were looking for. Have you heard of the example of the teacher telling the class that there was a study that showed people who have brown eyes (or blue) are smarter? It provokes an emotional response that is used as part of the lesson. They say that it helps the students to learn & remember. Well, I made up a lesson plan with a similar "trick" and got an A. I could do it because I would never actually use it on kids, but I have to say I felt pretty dirty afterwards. That was the last class I took.

 

I currently homeschool, but when my daughter was in 4th grade at PS I did not let her go on a field trip. It was from 8:30am to 8:30pm, during February in New England, in the woods. They used the hours after dark for role-playing time. The children played escaped slaves and were chased by "slave catchers" through the woods. This just blew my mind on many levels. First, how disrespectful is it to ancestors of slaves for a bunch of white kids to "play" escaped slave? Second, this is another example of appealing to the emotions of students. I assume they wanted to foster compassion by scaring them in the dark. I feel there are many more productive ways to foster compassion. Lastly, the thought of a bunch of 10 year old kids running through the woods in the dark in the middle of winter is an accident waiting to happen. The area is a preserve with thousands of acres.

 

Kids that are used to getting their emotional chain yanked at school will be primed to fall for propaganda in the future. Part of the reason I was drawn to homeschooling was to help foster critical thinking and avoid the education-through-emotion that seems to be gaining momentum - but they will never call it what it is, as they continue to claim they are teaching critical thinking skills.

[Butter]

Okay, I watched the whole video (with my daughter who has been homeschooled since day 1) and we agreed that these guys on the video certainly learned their first grade lesson on using emotional words well. I also noted that when reading from the rubric in the third grade book, he said that the child would use xyz to solve social problems. That is absolutely NOT what the book said. The book said "solve the problem." Considering he clearly was against anything with the term "social" in it, that right there made it clear what his agenda is and that he is reading things into it that are not actually there.

 

Now, Common Core is, first of all, not a curriculum written by the federal government. It is guidelines and it is up to the curriculum maker to adjust their own stuff to become Common Core compliant. This is really no different from, say, things in Virginia saying they are aligned with the SOLs (of course whether the federal government should be making guidelines for what is to be included in curricula is another argument that can be applied to the Common Core, so I am going to ignore the opinions on that for now). In this case, ZB has created these books and the state of Utah has approved them for use in classrooms.

 

All that said, it really seems to me this guy is effectively using his emotional words to incite a certain opinion from people. He also is assuming that social problems are global or redistribution of wealth or owe it to people sorts of issues. This is clearly wrong since examples given include needing more equipment for the school gym. That is a problem a 6 year old can relate to. I think they really hae a weird issue with the term "social." I found that lessonto be a pretty good 6-year-old level introduction to persuasive writing. You absolutely use emotional words in persuasive writing.

 

Also, it is not *telling* a kid to use the word nag in relation to their parent telling them to clean their room. It is having them select the more emotional word for that sentence. It is typical to use scenarios that are familiar to and make sense to the kid. My 6 year old totally got that that was simply a more emotional word (and my 13 year old said it's pretty accurate - and we laughed because, well, it is). The funny thing is they could have used the *exact same* workbooks two years ago and no one would have cared. Now they say they are aligned with the Common Core and people freak out because Common Core came from the federal government. Many of the early "aligned with Common Core" curricula had no changes except to say they were aligned.

 

He seemed to have a big issue with the 3rd grade rubric. I thought what they were saying in there was gauging if the kid is learning and engaged. As homeschoolers we are all aware that an engaged and interested learner will always learn more/deeper than a kid who is not. I also note that it looks like he cherry-picked a very specific lesson to attempt to prove his point.

[Erin]

What I want to know is, where were all these outraged people when Bush was pushing No Child Left Behind through???

I can think of no legislation that has been more disastrous for modern education!

Common Core, OTOH, is nothing more than states' standards, re-branded. They've been around for more than 20 years, this is just the latest incarnation.

[PachiSusan]

What I want to know is, where were all these outraged people when Bush was pushing No Child Left Behind through???

I can think of no legislation that has been more disastrous for modern education!

Common Core, OTOH, is nothing more than states' standards, re-branded. They've been around for more than 20 years, this is just the latest incarnation.

 

I was. People listened just as little as they do now. My home school choice happened long before my child was even conceived.

 

ETA that NCLB was one of the reasons I even started researching home education. I didn't like the path our schools were going down, but very few people I knew agreed with me.

[LucyStoner]

I really, really need to buy stock in Reynold's Wrap.

[PachiSusan]

I really, really need to buy stock in Reynold's Wrap.

 

Oh no Darlin' - Tin Foil hats are so passé...only the nuveau conspiracy ladies wear tin foil anymore...

[Mergath]

Before I watch the video, I would like to share a couple of things that popped into my head while reading the OP.

 

About 8 years ago, I started taking some classes in a teacher certification program. It was for people who already had degrees, and wanted to get certified to teach high school. I had to write a lesson plan in one of the classes, and they made it pretty clear what they were looking for. Have you heard of the example of the teacher telling the class that there was a study that showed people who have brown eyes (or blue) are smarter? It provokes an emotional response that is used as part of the lesson. They say that it helps the students to learn & remember. Well, I made up a lesson plan with a similar "trick" and got an A. I could do it because I would never actually use it on kids, but I have to say I felt pretty dirty afterwards. That was the last class I took.

 

I currently homeschool, but when my daughter was in 4th grade at PS I did not let her go on a field trip. It was from 8:30am to 8:30pm, during February in New England, in the woods. They used the hours after dark for role-playing time. The children played escaped slaves and were chased by "slave catchers" through the woods. This just blew my mind on many levels. First, how disrespectful is it to ancestors of slaves for a bunch of white kids to "play" escaped slave? Second, this is another example of appealing to the emotions of students. I assume they wanted to foster compassion by scaring them in the dark. I feel there are many more productive ways to foster compassion. Lastly, the thought of a bunch of 10 year old kids running through the woods in the dark in the middle of winter is an accident waiting to happen. The area is a preserve with thousands of acres.

 

Kids that are used to getting their emotional chain yanked at school will be primed to fall for propaganda in the future. Part of the reason I was drawn to homeschooling was to help foster critical thinking and avoid the education-through-emotion that seems to be gaining momentum - but they will never call it what it is, as they continue to claim they are teaching critical thinking skills.

 

I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with the CC? This kind of stuff bugs me to no end. Someone has a personal anecdote about something that happened in a public school that they disagreed with, therefore public schools are all bad, therefore CC must be bad too. Just once I'd like to see people debate the actual content of the standards.

[cdrumm4448]

I don't need to watch the video to determine that CC isn't for us. I don't like or use materials that indoctrinate. What I have seen of CC materials is that they are hugely slanted toward the environmentalists (we are taxing the air now), and the math is just stupid. We used to teach one best way to solve a math problem. Now, we present five different solutions and tell the kid to pick the one they like best. No better way to confuse a kid, IMO.

[Mergath]

I don't need to watch the video to determine that CC isn't for us. I don't like or use materials that indoctrinate. What I have seen of CC materials is that they are hugely slanted toward the environmentalists (we are taxing the air now), and the math is just stupid. We used to teach one best way to solve a math problem. Now, we present five different solutions and tell the kid to pick the one they like best. No better way to confuse a kid, IMO.

 

 

At this point, I'm just going to start ignoring anyone who refers to the CC as a set of materials, because obviously you don't have the slightest clue what the CC actually is. Try reading the standards. Seriously.

 

And teaching kids to recycle and turn off lights when they leave the room isn't indoctrinating children into environmentalism, or whatever lunacy people are coming up with now. It's common sense.

[kristinannie]

Read Values Clarification if you want to be disturbed. I did A LOT of those activities when I was in school. I never knew they were using them to "mold" me. I got in on Kindle and had to stop reading it because I was so angry that I was used that way.

[Joker]

 

Perhaps I'm reading into what YOU are saying, and if I am, forgive me.

 

I don't know anyone who has watched ONE video and took it on faith and is now anti-CCSS. The people I know have come to the conclusions through faithful research. I wouldn't expect anything different from the learned people here.

 

 

Do any of these people actually have students in a public school that is utilizing the common core? My oldest is in a ps that has it fully implemented other than testing and I am quite impressed. They are actually stressing more critical thinking than before and it's been a good thing. I haven't seen anything yet that is horrible. The fear/drama/etc. regarding common core is just a bit baffling to me.

[Embassy]

Also fascism and communism don't go together. The picture of Hitler youth combined with the title of the article doesn't make sense.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism, fascist movements share certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism, ethnocentrism, and militarism.

[LucyStoner]

 

Oh no Darlin' - Tin Foil hats are so passé...only the nuveau conspiracy ladies wear tin foil anymore...

 

 

 

See, I think that. And then I log onto my computer and open threads like this one.

[Erin]

Also fascism and communism don't go together. The picture of Hitler youth combined with the title of the article doesn't make sense.

 

 

I'm always surprised at how many conservatives don't understand that Hitler was a conservative, too.

An extreme one, granted, but the complete polar opposite on the political spectrum from a communist (who is an extreme liberal).

Politically speaking, Hitler is far closer to Glenn Beck than he is to Marx...

[PachiSusan]

Do any of these people actually have students in a public school that is utilizing the common core? My oldest is in a ps that has it fully implemented other than testing and I am quite impressed. They are actually stressing more critical thinking than before and it's been a good thing. I haven't seen anything yet that is horrible. The fear/drama/etc. regarding common core is just a bit baffling to me.

 

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, my nephews are in public school. The change has been palpable - in the demeanor of the school and the grades that the children are taking home. The principal and some of the best teachers have quit this year over the changes CC will bring.

 

Just because people come to a different conclusion doesn't make them right or wrong. Intelligent thorough people are on both sides of this issue.

 

I am THRILLED that CC has been good for your oldest and their school. I do not believe every school will be so lucky - but I'd like nothing better than to be proven wrong. :(

 

Edited out personal information as I did not ask my SIL's permission first.

[PachiSusan]

I'm always surprised at how many conservatives don't understand that Hitler was a conservative, too.

An extreme one, granted, but the complete polar opposite on the political spectrum from a communist (who is an extreme liberal).

Politically speaking, Hitler is far closer to Glenn Beck than he is to Marx...

 

 

It is most certainly not a conservative or liberal issue at all. People from all sides of the political spectrum are for AND against CC.

[Erin]

If you'll double check, you'll see I said nothing whatsoever about CC in the post you're quoting.

...Merely pointing out an example of typical confusion about political ideology.

[PachiSusan]

If you'll double check, you'll see I said nothing whatsoever about CC in the post you're quoting.

Merely pointing out frequent confusion about political ideology.

 

 

You are right. I stand corrected. :)

[LucyStoner]

It is most certainly not a conservative or liberal issue at all. People from all sides of the political spectrum are for AND against CC.

 

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most liberal objections to common core are not of the hysterical conflate Hitler with communism variety. We liberals can get as hysterical as the next dude, but seriously? A reality check here. Do not find merit in propaganda frothy videos on sites run by the sort of people who think that it is rational or vaguely ok to associate Hitler with a US president and mix up fascism and communism.

[PachiSusan]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most liberal objections to common core are not of the hysterical conflate Hitler with communism variety. We liberals can get as hysterical as the next dude, but seriously? A reality check here. Do not find merit in propaganda frothy videos on sites that think it is rational or vaguely ok to associate Hitler with a US president and mix up fascism and communism.

 

I guess why I keep coming back to this is I don't understand how it *seems* that the general consensus here is that only crazies are against it and the only thinking intelligent people are for it. There are real reasons for concern that don't include conspiracy and hysteria, just as there are real reasons to say the standards themselves aren't troubling. Each person comes to the conclusion on their own. I like to think that for the most part, people fall somewhere in the middle and all the finger pointing about the other extreme does nothing to advance the discussion.

 

I'll leave it at that. Peace out. :)

[LucyStoner]

I guess why I keep coming back to this is I don't understand how it *seems* that the general consensus here is that only crazies are against it and the only thinking intelligent people are for it. There are real reasons for concern that don't include conspiracy and hysteria, just as there are real reasons to say the standards themselves aren't troubling.

 

Yet how many times have we been treated to links along the lines of this one? Seriously, no one should ever be surprised to be seen as crazy if they are linking Hitler with anything they don't like, an American president and/or a political system that Hitler opposed to the extent of tossing people who supported it in concentration camps along with anyone else he had a bug up his butt about. No rational conversation on CC can stem from the hysterical links that I have seen here. And in that instance, hysterical has 2 meanings because honestly, all I can do is laugh. Anything less than humor is just too sad and disturbing.

 

FTR, I have never said anything pro or anti CC. I just think that people do well to breathe when they are culling through the mountain of opinions and information about it out there.

[LucyStoner]

Duplicate

[Mergath]

 

I guess why I keep coming back to this is I don't understand how it *seems* that the general consensus here is that only crazies are against it and the only thinking intelligent people are for it. There are real reasons for concern that don't include conspiracy and hysteria, just as there are real reasons to say the standards themselves aren't troubling. Each person comes to the conclusion on their own. I like to think that for the most part, people fall somewhere in the middle and all the finger pointing about the other extreme does nothing to advance the discussion.

 

I'll leave it at that. Peace out. :)

 

Probably because the people that support educational standards usually say something along the lines of, "Just read them, okay?" and the people against them are so busy shrieking some unintelligible nonsense about Communism and Hitler and indoctrination and the antichrist that no one can understand what the heck they're saying. If it seems like only crazies are against them around here, well, I think that speaks for itself.