I just don't get it.... Or I get it and don't believe it

[Citrusheights5]

I could really use some help/perspective/options/advice.

 

My son turned 9 this year and is in the second grade. I retained him in K when he didn't know all of his letters, the sounds they represent, and could not count to 20. The school passed him but I kept him home, and did K at home with him and his brother. I placed him back in school for first grade along with his brother, and while brother did just fine, Miles just did not progress. When I placed him, at that point he knew his letters, sounds, and numbers. Then, He started getting migraines, and so late in the year I pulled him out of school again, we started VT, and they expected a long VT period.

 

VT helped tremendously at first, he made great strides, sounding out CVC words, and then stalled out again. VT was so very expensive and their were months where we saw no improvement, so we stopped. ( We had financial and other reasons, but the main was we were paying and not seeing improvements. ) He was also going to Scottish Rite once a week for reading help, since he was tested there and found to have needs that they would help. (no mention of dyslexia or any other LD, just needs that were in their wheelhouse.) SR also told me that Miles has working memory issues, and was only holding on to 3 bits of information at a time.

 

Brother moves on to second in PS, and Miles continues at home homeschooling. We definitely knew something was "off" about Miles, academically. But since in the rest of life he is super ok, we never really stressed it.

 

A little about Miles as a person. He never crawled and walked at 8 months. He learned to ride a 2 wheel bike at age 2. By 5, I would let him play outside (front) by himself, something I have never let his two older or 3 younger siblings do, because they are "kids" who don't pay attention. Miles always did.. He NEVER rode his bike in the street, left the courtyard, or tested any definite limits of safety(in other things all the time). Miles was allowed a whole host of freedoms his siblings never did because he is responsible. EVERYONE in the neighborhood knows Miles, he rides his bike, and goes around helping the elderly, chatting up people fixing their cars, etc. At this point I should say, Miles is quite the charmer, and his problems in kinder were not identified, because he would talk the other kids into showing him their work and Miles would copy, even their name, and then wonder how I knew.. I could go on and on, but he is very social, friendly, responsible (in a sorta creepy way) boy.

 

So I take him to our local college educational department to get him tested, so that we can move forward academically. I want to find out what specific LD are we dealing with so I can better help him in that department. 6 hours of testing, and they told me they cant test him for an LD, because you need to have an average IQ to have an LD. He has an IQ of 70, and that is why he cant read.

 

I tried asking specific questions, but they just kept referring back to his IQ. Every time I tried to ask about helping they just kept talking about having him in "special day classes. and that with a living skills class he might be able to live on his own one day". Miles will probably never be an academic, but I knew that before he started school. He loves working with his hands but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to read or do math.

 

So I came home and looked up IQ, and Mild MR, Intellectually Disabled , and it just doesn't sound like Miles. Slow learner when it comes to academics, yes, but not universally either. So I go back to the testing they did, and researched that. I have never heard of the DAS, Differential Ability Scale, so I have no clue what they tested. They used the Kaufman Test of Educational Achievement, and while I expected any achievement test to be low, I was pleased to see his strengths at lest appear there( listening comprehension).

 

I can post his scores if you'd like, but I am wondering am I misunderstanding ID? Where do I go from here? What is next? I feel like I have no actionable information. I am doing a bunch with him, but I feel like this post is long enough as it is. I will be happy to explain or detail out if any of you have questions.

 

Again I could really use some help/perspective/options/advice, on where to go from here.

Thanks.

Lee

[dkpalaska]

I don't have any experience with this particular mix of strengths and challenges, but I was struck by how wonderfully you are supporting Miles. He sounds like an incredible and talented little boy, but one who would be completely misunderstood and potentially crushed by a "typical" school administration and learning environment.

 

Personally, I am questioning the IQ results. He sounds plenty bright, but with an intelligence that might be very hard to measure. I wish I had good advice, but I wish you :grouphug: and good luck with the diagnosis journey.

[merry gardens]

_{I don't know if anything I write will be helpful because I'm certainly not an expert, but maybe you already have a lot of the information to help get you started. The Scottish Rite people told you he had working memory issues and could only hold onto three bits of information. Memory has a great deal to do with what we commonly think of and measure as "intelligence." (He may have outstanding people skills, but doctors don't usually measure that when they measure IQ. Nor does IQ measure how kind a person is, which if you ask me, is far more important than being smart!) Anyway, back to his working memory-- there are various strategies that can be used to help improve his memory. Lingui System has some very good materials to build working memory. You also know he has reading problems. Reading is more difficult when a child can't remember the sounds he's suppose to blend, so if his memory gets a little better, reading might become a little easier for him. Also look into auditory difficulties. Can he distinguish similar sounds and can he detect the sounds within words? Can he break words into syllables? A lack of phonological awareness will also cause difficulty with reading. And if you know he's having vision problems, then look into ways to continue working on his vision issues. if you can't afford vt, right now. (And too many therapies all at once could be too much anyhow.) He may have a combination of several things going on to contribute to reading and academic problems. I personally suspect when a person has a large number of things contributing to the problems, the system might just throw up their hands and say they can't do much beyond teaching basic self-care. You're not the system--you're his mother. You know that he likes working with his hands, so as you work to build his memory and reading and everything else, teach using methods that involve working with his hands and fit it to his interests as much as you can. Get creative! Since they already gave you some type of "diagnosis" I wouldn't worry so much about having a formal diagnosis as much as I'd look into fixing or improving whatever things might be able to be fixed or improve--and I'd start by looking into his working memory.}

[Ottakee]

For one thing, kids with IQ of 70 CAN learn to read. My daughter tested at a 38 and reads at a solid 5th grade level. It took me YEARS of HARD work and repeating but she now can read for survival and easy pleasure stuff. We used www.3rsplus.com and www.iseesam.com to work with her. Her case study is on the first site under Ottakee's girls. It took her WEEKS to learn the 3 words needed to read the 1st book. I remember working for weeks to get her to read the word I. She knew it as the name but couldn't read it as the word (??????) It was so painfully slow that I would almost fall asleep between each word she read. Fast forward a couple of years, once she got through the first 2 sets of books things started picking up and as amazing as it sounds, got EASIER as we went along.

 

My son is similar to your son. He has an IQ of 55-60 but has great social skills, is a great skiier, snowboarder, swimmer, etc. He was racing dirtbikes at age 9 with all of the other kids and beating them. He later moved up to a 450 (which is a BIG boy bike with clutch, etc) and was blowing away the neighbor kids on that when they would race (scaring mom all the way). He can build things, figure out electronics, etc. as well as any kids and better than many..............but he is cognitively impaired. He has fetal alcohol and academics are very hard for him. He reads at about a 3rd grade level and does only 1st grade level math. Time and money are hard for him but power tools and dirtbikes are a breeze.

 

I would not give up on your son but keep plugging away with the reading and math. I like Christian Light Education for math--just slow it down as needed and go to a calculator or math chart if needed for the basic facts.

 

If he has attention issues that might be ADD, it can worth having that treated as well.

[Citrusheights5]

I don't have any experience with this particular mix of strengths and challenges, but I was struck by how wonderfully you are supporting Miles. He sounds like an incredible and talented little boy, but one who would be completely misunderstood and potentially crushed by a "typical" school administration and learning environment.

 

Personally, I am questioning the IQ results. He sounds plenty bright, but with an intelligence that might be very hard to measure. I wish I had good advice, but I wish you :grouphug: and good luck with the diagnosis journey.

 

 

Thank you so much.. I appreciate your kind words..

[wapiti]

Who did the testing? The DAS is more of a screening tool, our private ed psych told me, after I mentioned that the school psych had tested my ds with the DAS.

 

It sounds like there is more information to uncover. I'd look for another opinion from a different ed psych or neuropsych, and I'd probably want a WISC (for IQ, and a WIAT for achievement), if you can afford it. The WISC is better at separating out working memory and processing speed from verbal and perceptual intelligence and seems to be the choice of many private psychs when it comes to teasing out LDs.

 

I don't recall ever hearing that a student can't be tested for an LD with a low IQ - that doesn't make sense at all to me. Good luck :)

 

Eta, you might consider looking back into the vision angle. It could be that the place you were going wasn't that great or just didn't address certain downstream things like vision processing or failed to notice some underlying OT issue like retained reflexes or something. When he's due for another regular checkup, I'd take him to a different COVD and ask some pointed questions. Obviously, if there's a lingering issue with vision, that can affect IQ testing.

 

Eta, it's great that you noticed a strength with listening comprehension. It is a great strength to have and it's super-important, IMO, to put strengths to good use in helping him learn and to make him feel good about what he can do. (However, it also makes me wonder if he developed that strength to compensate for a vision weakness.)

[Citrusheights5]

_{Lingui System has some very good materials to build working memory. I will definitely look into this, as I believe it is the biggest thing preventing him from moving forward. He is currently working his way through the C8sciences program, and doing really well with it. You also know he has reading problems. Reading is more difficult when a child can't remember the sounds he's suppose to blend, so if his memory gets a little better, reading might become a little easier for him. Definitely we work around by sounding out blending as we go. The biggest hurdle is remembering the beginning of the word by the time we get to the end.. Also look into auditory difficulties. Can he distinguish similar sounds and can he detect the sounds within words? Can he break words into syllables? A lack of phonological awareness will also cause difficulty with reading. Hes been working at Scottish Rite with this. SH and CH were no different to him. We are backtracking and going over it and getting his phonological awareness up to speed. His biggest set back in with substitutions. You can have him take of the P in STOP, but he can't take of the S. Again I think that is his working memory tripping him up. And if you know he's having vision problems, then look into ways to continue working on his vision issues. if you can't afford vt, right now. (And too many therapies all at once could be too much anyhow.We just saw the surgical ophthalmologist (not covd ) for migraine related issues.. She picked up on his prescription being wrong for several years now (even the covd who made his prescription last year didn't pick up on his glitches) Miles is unreliable in answering what he sees so she just tweaked his prescription based on when he actually focuses. Maybe we will go back to VT, but not now. He may have a combination of several things going on to contribute to reading and academic problems. I personally suspect when a person has a large number of things contributing to the problems, the system might just throw up their hands and say they can't do much beyond teaching basic self-care. You're not the system--you're his mother. You know that he likes working with his hands, so as you work to build his memory and reading and everything else, teach using methods that involve working with his hands and fit it to his interests as much as you can. Get creative Thanks and I will. We continue working on his strengths, and keep plugging away at everything else. I wish I knew what more I could do, but I guess well just keep at it. Thanks again}

 

 

[Citrusheights5]

 

 

My son is similar to your son. He has an IQ of 55-60 but has great social skills, is a great skiier, snowboarder, swimmer, etc. He was racing dirtbikes at age 9 with all of the other kids and beating them. He later moved up to a 450 (which is a BIG boy bike with clutch, etc) and was blowing away the neighbor kids on that when they would race (scaring mom all the way). He can build things, figure out electronics, etc. as well as any kids and better than many..............but he is cognitively impaired. He has fetal alcohol and academics are very hard for him. He reads at about a 3rd grade level and does only 1st grade level math. Time and money are hard for him but power tools and dirtbikes are a breeze Sounds very much like my son! Its all about bikes, and BMX. Times is hard for Miles, but he compensates great with a ipod. He knows he has to water the grass for 15 minutes so he just sets a timer since he can never figure out what is 15 minutes from now. As for money well that is miles strength he can't add over 10 unless its money and he is figuring out how much you owe him when he lends money to his brothers. Thank you so much for telling me about your kids. Truly it helps me see his strengths highlighted, and to know what these numbers mean.

 

 

 

 

I looked up the I see Sam books. Miles breezed through the first books, and then got to book 7 or 8, and said.. this is dumb.. Sam i get it his name is Sam. WHY don;'t they say sister instead of just SIS . If i can;t read it as sister I don't want it . And that is when we stand yet again.. Tomorrow I will pull them up again, and try some more, because this is the kind of repetitiveness he needs.. Thanks for a great resource. I will definitely be using it.

[8filltheheart]

How about asking Rivka if you could hire her to go over the results and offer you a formal plan of action? (She is a poster on the WTM forums, a clinical psy, and starting up a private practice. She won't do counseling online, etc, but she could probably offer you solid direction.)

 

I am questioning the results w/you bc I have a child with serious processing speed issues (scoring 56 and 59 for visual and auditory processing speeds. He has other subscores in the upper 120s, low 130s. However, his over all IQ is only around 90 bc of how they factor in processing speeds.

 

Now our ds has LOTS of issues, will never be completely independent, etc bc his is a high functioning autistic. However, he is incredibly intelligent and can memorize vast amts of info. So, large discrepancies in subcategories can drastically influence IQ scores and make them not representative of actual abilities. Also, with your ds being young, I believe there are interventions that can help him improve his working memory.

 

Fwiw, NEVER just accept a single professional's answer. It took us 4 yrs to finally get a correct diagnosis for our ds. (((( hugs))))

[Citrusheights5]

Who did the testing? The DAS is more of a screening tool, our private ed psych told me, after I mentioned that the school psych had tested my ds with the DASI went to our local college education department. I paid 200 for the eval since it was cheap. The PS would have done it, but I didn't want to go that route for several reasons mostly related to my other kids, who are in that school district. It is a great district, and I am sure they would have done it, but I choose to go this route since I though it would be less biased -based on I was told they would only identify what they can remediate.

 

It sounds like there is more information to uncover. I'd look for another opinion from a different ed psych or neuropsych, and I'd probably want a WISC (for IQ, and a WIAT for achievement), if you can afford it. The WISC is better at separating out working memory and processing speed from verbal and perceptual intelligence and seems to be the choice of many private psychs when it comes to teasing out LDs I was hopeing and I though they would preform the WISC since when I had my other son tested at the college last year they used the WISC. The WISC would have provided me we a ton of usable information.

 

I don't recall ever hearing that a student can't be tested for an LD with a low IQ - that doesn't make sense at all to me. Good luck :)

 

Eta, you might consider looking back into the vision angle. It could be that the place you were going wasn't that great or just didn't address certain downstream things like vision processing or failed to notice some underlying OT issue like retained reflexes or something. When he's due for another regular checkup, I'd take him to a different COVD and ask some pointed questions. Obviously, if there's a lingering issue with vision, that can affect IQ testingVisual processing is definitely an issue with Miles. We just had his regular check up, and once we have gone through a few other things, we will probably move forward with VT again.

 

Eta, it's great that you noticed a strength with listening comprehension. It is that a great strength to have and it's super-important, IMO, to put strengths to good use in helping him learn and to make him feel good about what he can do. (However, it also makes me wonder if he developed that strength to compensate for a vision weakness.)I can say he had developed that strength to compensate for vision weakness. He loves read alouds and books on tapes. His comprehension is perfect. We are currently on the third Harry Potter book, and he just loves hearing them. We are seeing a neurologist again for migraines who referred Miles to Speech, based on things I've (or any other person) never picked up, so when we go for that we will see what is picked up there. Also have an MRI scheduled this month to make sure nothing is going on their, but neurologist said hes pretty sure it sure be cleared. Also he referred Miles to get diagnosed for ADD- inattentive. I'm thinking if that is the case then treating that may help his working memory issues.

[wapiti]

We are seeing a neurologist again for migraines who referred Miles to Speech, based on things I've (or any other person) never picked up, so when we go for that we will see what is picked up there. Also have an MRI scheduled this month to make sure nothing is going on their, but neurologist said hes pretty sure it sure be cleared. Also he referred Miles to get diagnosed for ADD- inattentive. I'm thinking if that is the case then treating that may help his working memory issues.

 

It's good that you're also looking at the medical side. I hope you get more answers soon. For the ADD workup, I'd want a WISC as part of that process. With all this stuff going on, I would not simply see the ped for ADD.

 

Certain tests that the SLP might do may be able to pick up whether dyslexia might be involved.

[texasmama]

The DAS is a fast IQ test. It can be administered in about an hour, as I understand. I can't speak to how accurate it is. Also, as other posters mention, deficits in working memory often indicate ADHD, and this is akin to a learning disability in the way it affects a child's ability to learn. I don't know much about the Kaufman. I don't think you got the best evaluation, in my fairly uneducated (other than my own child's evaluations) opinion. I think you need a better evaluation with different testing instruments. I would not trust that evaluation, either. (((hugs))) as you figure it out. BTDT.

[Ottakee]

 

I looked up the I see Sam books. Miles breezed through the first books, and then got to book 7 or 8, and said.. this is dumb.. Sam i get it his name is Sam. WHY don;'t they say sister instead of just SIS . If i can;t read it as sister I don't want it . And that is when we stand yet again.. Tomorrow I will pull them up again, and try some more, because this is the kind of repetitiveness he needs.. Thanks for a great resource. I will definitely be using it.

 

 

While he might not like it there is a REASON they use SIS. THey want the kids to focus on the sounds, blending left to right. Later on they have Nan and Nat---so they just can't look at the first few letters and guess. THe more you see the books as they progress the more you can see how they carefully sequence these things. The pictures carry the stories but you can't "read" the pictures and get the right words---again, done for a reason.

 

With the vision stuff, I would look at the file on the cursor or notched card. It helps with tracking and blending. Just a 3x5 card with a notch cut out of it. As he progresses, I found that putting a card ABOVE the line they are reading is much better than the typical below it. It allows their eyes to naturally flow to the next line.

[herekittykitty]

I am not sure what to tell you about some of the test results, but wanted to say that ITA that working memory deficits completely affect IQ tests. How would he test well if he couldn't hold information in his mind? I would also get a 2nd opinion from a really good psychologist. Do a ton of research and find the best one you can. And no one should tell you what your child's future will be based on a test result. If you don't perceive him as intellectually disabled, then don't proceed as if he is. Just try to find out what is causing his academic difficulties and work on them. If you haven't already, I recommend the book "The Mislabled Child". Has great information about all kinds of things that can be perceived as intellectual disabilities, when really they are processing problems. Also gives ways to work on working memory. Good luck and keep believing in your son. You know him much better than a test.

[jenncslp]

What kind of language skills does he have? Does he understand all language directives? Complex sentences? Was he tested through a verbal IQ test? If he has any language (receptive or expressive) issues, he should only be tested by a completely nonverbal IQ test. Otherwise the scores are not accurate.

 

And yes, as someone previously said, children with an IQ of 70 can definitely learn to read.

 

...I don't have time to write more right now, but wanted to get that 2 cents worth in there. Keep plugging away, mama!

[Alessandra]

I agree with pp who suggested that you should get a more accurate evaluation and that the WISC-IV is what you should go after, either privately or through the school system. (I am not sure that doing both would be an option, as there might be a problem regarding valid results -- not sure about specific timing on WISC.

 

So I take him to our local college educational department to get him tested, so that we can move forward academically. I want to find out what specific LD are we dealing with so I can better help him in that department. 6 hours of testing, and they told me they cant test him for an LD, because you need to have an average IQ to have an LD. He has an IQ of 70, and that is why he cant read.

 

I tried asking specific questions, but they just kept referring back to his IQ. Every time I tried to ask about helping they just kept talking about having him in "special day classes. and that with a living skills class he might be able to live on his own one day". Miles will probably never be an academic, but I knew that before he started school. He loves working with his hands but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to read or do math.

 

 

Based on what you have said, my opinion of your college educational department is not as favorable as I would like.

 

-- First of all, it sounds as though they are making decisions without adequate testing.

-- Secondly, it sounds as though they are saying that no SLD can be diagnosed, because ds's IQ is too low to account for a discrepancy between intellectual and achievement. IDEA 2004 specifically said that "severe discrepancy" was not to be used in diagnosing LD.

-- Third, there is no reason at all why with an IQ of 70 cannot read and do math. There may be other factors, but I certainly know kids at that intellectual level who are fine and enthusiastic readers. A blanket negative statement is simply cruel.

-- Fourth, "might live on his own some day?' Who are these people and why do they want to think, much less, say, such a thing? IQ tests do NOT measure determination, responsibility, or social skills. IQ do NOT predict future success, as success is dependent on so much more that intellectual level. Any halfway responsible tester should be telling you this.

 

It sounds as though your ds has a great many skills already -- not the least of which is a mother who believes in him.

 

I don't have any recommendations for specific tests or programs, but oine thing I would do is to accentuate Miles's strengths. Do volunteer work, do sports/physical activities, let hime work with his hands -- do everything you can to build up his sense of self worth. And try to balance Miles and his siblings -- not always an easy job deciding who needs more attention!

[PrincessAriel]

My ds currently has an IQ of 72. It has ranged from 69 to where it is now for the past five years or so (tested about 4 times). The one thing that I could never understand is that although they emphasized to us that his IQ was not an accurate measure of his intelligence, they based most of their other findings on it. For example, they could not determine if he had dyslexia due to his score. He could not qualify for special ed at the ps due to his IQ. What do they do with kids who struggle? It almost seems like they are left to fail as they do not fit the definition of having an LD. He also has low working memory and slow processing speed.

He does read, now at probably about a 6th-7th grade level at age 14. He has good vocabulary and listening skills. They told us he would never go beyond a 3rd grade level in math and he is working on 6th grade now. He also has great social skills, can talk to anyone of any age and people really like him, compliment him on his manners, etc. Most people would never believe his IQ scores if they knew them as he comes across so well when interacting.

 

It sounds like you have a good understanding of your son and he is lucky to have you as a mom and advocate. Good luck to you! He sounds like a great kid!

[Alessandra]

My ds currently has an IQ of 72. It has ranged from 69 to where it is now for the past five years or so (tested about 4 times). The one thing that I could never understand is that although they emphasized to us that his IQ was not an accurate measure of his intelligence, they based most of their other findings on it. For example, they could not determine if he had dyslexia due to his score. He could not qualify for special ed at the ps due to his IQ. What do they do with kids who struggle? It almost seems like they are left to fail as they do not fit the definition of having an LD. He also has low working memory and slow processing speed.

He does read, now at probably about a 6th-7th grade level at age 14. He has good vocabulary and listening skills. They told us he would never go beyond a 3rd grade level in math and he is working on 6th grade now. He also has great social skills, can talk to anyone of any age and people really like him, compliment him on his manners, etc. Most people would never believe his IQ scores if they knew them as he comes across so well when interacting.

 

It sounds like you have a good understanding of your son and he is lucky to have you as a mom and advocate. Good luck to you! He sounds like a great kid!

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: for your ds's accomplishments!!!!!!!

[texasmama]

Coming back to add this:

 

One of my children has struggled in some areas, academically and otherwise. The overall/composite IQ of this child does not accurately reflect his true abilites because he has outliers, both far above and far below. I have learned through the years that the subtests are much more helpful than the overall "IQ", which I reject as inaccurate, given my experience with his performance academically and otherwise. This child has been tested four different times, both cognitive and academic. The results have ranged quite a bit, but as this child gets older it has become increasingly clear that there are very clear and consistent areas of strength, quite a few areas that are average-ish as compared to peers and a few areas that are bottoming out. However, although the cognitive portion of the testing is all over the map, the educational portion is consistently above grade level. In spite of the weaknesses, this kid is learning and excelling. His working memory is one of his strengths, which has been key to his success, I believe. IME, kids with ADHD who are very bright can overcome some measure of the poor working memory for a time in the younger elementary grades, but kids who already have some deficits have more difficulty overcoming it. Just information based on my experience to think on as you walk this path.

[Heathermomster]

Just wanted to add that the testing doesn't sound adequate and is not a predictor of life outcomes. My child's level of achievement in now way reflects the lower portions of his IQ scores. Having good verbal comprehension is a huge blessing. The brain is absolutely amazing and compensates to learn.

 

The fact that your child walked early and VT stalled out triggered a red flag. Has he been evaluated by an OT? Consider having your child checked for retained primitive reflexes. There are simple movements that the OT can perform to see if any exist. Blessings, h

[Citrusheights5]

What kind of language skills does he have? Does he understand all language directives? Complex sentences? Was he tested through a verbal IQ test? If he has any language (receptive or expressive) issues, he should only be tested by a completely nonverbal IQ test. Otherwise the scores are not accurate.

 

And yes, as someone previously said, children with an IQ of 70 can definitely learn to read.

 

...I don't have time to write more right now, but wanted to get that 2 cents worth in there. Keep plugging away, mama!

 

 

Just pulled out his Scottish Rite testing because the expensive IQ testings says nothing. What is says about oral language, done at 8 years old in DEC:

 

** Percent Rank ** Age Equiv ** Grade Equiv

Picture Vocabulary ( WJIII) - * 26 * 6-4 * 1.0

Picture Vocabulary (TOLD P:4) * 50 * >8-9*

Oral Comprehension * 73 * 8-9 * 3.4

 

Achieved score for expressive single word vocabulary(WJII Picture Vocabulary) indicated low-average performance. However, for most of the prompts, while Miles was unable to specifically name the item, his responses demonstrated familiarity with the vocabulary and the ability to "talk around" the target word. For example for the picture prompt of a ruler he stated, "its is for measuring": for beetle "It is an insect" and for pliers They are a tool".

The achieve score for listening comprehension, was a relative are of strength for Miles, indicating high-average skills.

[Heathermomster]

Were you provided with a listening comp (owls) score from Scottish Rite?

[Citrusheights5]

 

Based on what you have said, my opinion of your college educational department is not as favorable as I would likeIt kills me because I have used them before, but they use graduate students.. so I guess I got a crappy one.

 

-- First of all, it sounds as though they are making decisions without adequate testing Truly,

-- Secondly, it sounds as though they are saying that no SLD can be diagnosed, because ds's IQ is too low to account for a discrepancy between intellectual and achievement. IDEA 2004 specifically said that "severe discrepancy" was not to be used in diagnosing LD Thank you for pointing that out!!

-- Third, there is no reason at all why with an IQ of 70 cannot read and do math. There may be other factors, but I certainly know kids at that intellectual level who are fine and enthusiastic readers. A blanket negative statement is simply cruel.​Exactly. And what I wanted was some idea of how to get from where he is now to where he can read.. Right now it is just painful for him. And he may never read for pleasure like my other kids. He is sooooooo much like my father, and because of that I am not worried about him "making it", but he needs to read, write and do math, and I have no clue how to teach it to him.

-- Fourth, "might live on his own some day?' Who are these people and why do they want to think, much less, say, such a thing? IQ tests do NOT measure determination, responsibility, or social skills. IQ do NOT predict future success, as success is dependent on so much more that intellectual level. Any halfway responsible tester should be telling you thisLike I said above, this was truly the least of my concerns, because of my dad. My father was a sheetmetal worker, a union installer for a partition company. When the manager retired they tried so hard to move my father up to that position, but he flat out refused. There was NO WAY you were putting my dad in an office all day.. They eventually closed the company since they could not fill the position, and my father way fine with that, and found another good job doing what he loves. My son takes after my dad so much, I know he is going to be fine. They are good people, with a tremendous work ethic, they loves what they do, and book learning means very little to both of them.

 

It sounds as though your ds has a great many skills already -- not the least of which is a mother who believes in him.

 

I don't have any recommendations for specific tests or programs, but one thing I would do is to accentuate Miles's strengths.This is the main reason Miles is home.. He beat himself up to much comparing himself to his brother. Do volunteer work I can say he already does in the neighborhood, but that is a great idea!! do sports/physical activities Football season is coming up. He did flag last year, and wants to to tackle this year. The high school coach was on the field last time, and told us he is a natural, and his ability to track the player with the ball and figure out the right angle to cut off the play makes him a threat. let hime work with his handsWe have a bike carcasses everywhere!! All he wants for xmas is an old car so we can start rebuilding it (he wants to be a car restorer and mechanic when he grows up) -- do everything you can to build up his sense of self worth. And try to balance Miles and his siblings -- not always an easy job deciding who needs more attention. Thank you!!! That balance is the hardest I think!!! Miles gets me during the AM, and he has to share like everyone else after school. I am so grateful I finally found wonderful schools for the other kids so I can focus on just Miles during the day.

[Citrusheights5]

My ds currently has an IQ of 72. It has ranged from 69 to where it is now for the past five years or so (tested about 4 times). The one thing that I could never understand is that although they emphasized to us that his IQ was not an accurate measure of his intelligence, they based most of their other findings on it. For example, they could not determine if he had dyslexia due to his score. He could not qualify for special ed at the ps due to his IQ. What do they do with kids who struggle? It almost seems like they are left to fail as they do not fit the definition of having an LD. He also has low working memory and slow processing speed.

He does read, now at probably about a 6th-7th grade level at age 14. He has good vocabulary and listening skills. They told us he would never go beyond a 3rd grade level in math and he is working on 6th grade now. He also has great social skills, can talk to anyone of any age and people really like him, compliment him on his manners, etc. Most people would never believe his IQ scores if they knew them as he comes across so well when interacting.

 

It sounds like you have a good understanding of your son and he is lucky to have you as a mom and advocate. Good luck to you! He sounds like a great kid!

 

WOW!!! Congrats mom!!! He sounds like an amazing young man. Thanks for telling me about your son, he sounds like an inspiration!

[Citrusheights5]

Were you provided with a listening comp (owls) score from Scottish Rite?

 

Scottish rite gave me those for oral language, Phonological Awareness results (all in K-1.4), Reading, and

Written Language, .

 

When the college gave did the other testing they did an Educational Achievement ( Kaufman),

 

Listening comprehension: **Student listens to shot passages and responds orally to questions relating to the passages. ** Average (99) **

 

Miles achievement scores are in the lower extreme to average ranges, and are consistent with his previous assessment results from Scottish Rite. Specifically, Miles demonstrated a significant discrepancy between his reading comprehension (65) and his oral listening (99). Miles has difficulty reading words in print and while he can recognize some letters and words, he has minimal decoding skills and sight word recognition. These skills are necessary for reading and for being able to understand what he reads(reading comprehension) However, when a passage or short story is read to him, he is able to understand important elements of a story and answer comprehension questions accurately (listening comprehension). The results are also consistent with Mrs. XXXXX report that Miles has good listening comprehensions. Overall, Miles achievement scores are consistent with Miles' cognitive scores, and suggest a global delay that supports the designation of intellectual disability.

[Citrusheights5]

Just wanted to add that the testing doesn't sound adequate and is not a predictor of life outcomes. My child's level of achievement in now way reflects the lower portions of his IQ scores. Having good verbal comprehension is a huge blessing. The brain is absolutely amazing and compensates to learn.

 

The fact that your child walked early and VT stalled out triggered a red flag. Has he been evaluated by an OT? Consider having your child checked for retained primitive reflexes. There are simple movements that the OT can perform to see if any exist. Blessings, h

 

I have not looked in to it, but I definitely will !!! Thanks.

[Heathermomster]

The reason I asked about that particular test is because I distinctly recall the tester telling me that the higher the score, the higher the ability to learn to read.

 

I forgot to mention that the OT will check the vestibular system as well. Good luck! H

[Terabith]

There was another poster on this board whose child's tested IQ jumped about 50 points once he started on medicine for ADHD. He went from being totally unable to learn to read to being at grade level in about a year. So I would definitely pursue a more comprehensive evaluation: IQ and achievement, phonological processing, ADHD, a good speech eval from a speech therapist, OT, vision therapy, testing for auditory processing, etc. The school system is probably the best place to go for the WISC and achievment, and they might be able to do a more comprehensive reading evaluation. Have you done the Barton screening? It gives you a quick test of phonemic awareness. I really like Barton, I See Sam, and Dancing Bears from Promethean Press. But the working memory is going to be pretty crucial. Something else to maybe consider is PACE or Brain Skills. I know they do a bit of work with working memory, but I haven't used it.

[Alessandra]

It sounds like your dad is a great man. Work ethic -- how could I forget to mention that? That is a wonderful gene to inherit!

 

I hesitate to mention programs, but (partly because it is so inexpensive), you might want to take a look at Miquon Math. You can get the whole program for about $50, I think (RR or Currclick) and get Cuisenaire rods from Amazon. Check the many posts on this board and maybe have your son look at the Education Unboxed videos to see if he likes the idea.There are a number of special needs math programs (Stern math, Touch Math, etc); Miquon is not special needs, but it has worked wonders for some sn kids.

[EKS]

LDs can wreak havoc on IQ scores. If the IQ score you were given doesn't mesh with what you know about your child, then there is more to the story.

 

My older son's IQ has been tested on more than one occasion. The first time at age 7 the processing speed scores were through the floor and the working memory scores were not much better. The other two indices were dead average. When he was 12, after lots of remediation for LDs and getting medication for ADHD and just homeschooling in general, his FSIQ had gone up by 25 points and his GAI had gone up by 40 points.

 

I think that the initial IQ results were an accurate reflection of his functioning on those sorts of tasks at the time, but I knew that it did not accurately reflect his potential. After much testing, most of which got at aspects of the truth but not all of it, he was diagnosed with dyslexia, which really does explain everything. But for the longest time, I felt like I was probably in some sort of denial because I didn't believe the initial IQ score.

[texasmama]

I felt like I was probably in some sort of denial because I didn't believe the initial IQ score.

I still feel that way sometimes.

[Citrusheights5]

 

I think that the initial IQ results were an accurate reflection of his functioning on those sorts of tasks at the time, but I knew that it did not accurately reflect his potential. After much testing, most of which got at aspects of the truth but not all of it, he was diagnosed with dyslexia, which really does explain everything. But for the longest time, I felt like I was probably in some sort of denial because I didn't believe the initial IQ score.

 

It dosent sound right to me... but it could? See the thing that gets me is that maybe I am just NOT understanding what ID means.

 

In my humble opinion if I throw a K'nex set at Miles for the first time, and he asks me 2 questions about how to connect certain pieces. I've spent no more than 5 minutes helping him build said project, than I don't believe he is ID. This is his first ever experience with these things, he followed the instructions page by page (but certainly not in the order they said and he had to undo and redo it several times because he put a piece on "backwards") . Motor works, pieces rotate.. Remote control Knex car was a go after a 2 day build.

 

I feel like his deficits are on those "crazy symbols" that mean something (be it numbers or letters). Ask him 12 +17, he will count it out, and as long as he doesn't loose his place counting (because he wont remember where he got mixed up), he will tell you the answer. Show him the same questions on paper and he will just stare and shake his head. ( think of an etch-a-sketch) a few times.. stare shake.. stare... shake.. look up.. look down.. stare.. shake.. SAY 12 plus 7. stare shake.. stare shake.. look at me and SAY Mom can I just count it?

[EKS]

FWIW, stimulant meds for ADHD can improve working memory.

[Embassy]

Scottish rite gave me those for oral language, Phonological Awareness results (all in K-1.4), Reading, and

Written Language, .

 

When the college gave did the other testing they did an Educational Achievement ( Kaufman),

 

Listening comprehension: **Student listens to shot passages and responds orally to questions relating to the passages. ** Average (99) **

 

Miles achievement scores are in the lower extreme to average ranges, and are consistent with his previous assessment results from Scottish Rite. Specifically, Miles demonstrated a significant discrepancy between his reading comprehension (65) and his oral listening (99). Miles has difficulty reading words in print and while he can recognize some letters and words, he has minimal decoding skills and sight word recognition. These skills are necessary for reading and for being able to understand what he reads(reading comprehension) However, when a passage or short story is read to him, he is able to understand important elements of a story and answer comprehension questions accurately (listening comprehension). The results are also consistent with Mrs. XXXXX report that Miles has good listening comprehensions. Overall, Miles achievement scores are consistent with Miles' cognitive scores, and suggest a global delay that supports the designation of intellectual disability.

 

 

I would get a second opinion with someone with experience. It looks like something other than intellectual disability here. His understanding of language appears to be in the average range. It sounds like his difficulties are more to do with learning.

 

- Former SLP

[Pen]

There are many interesting things in what you wrote above, but a few that jump out at me to mention are that he can do math with money. In other words, he can do it. Also he has high listening comprehension. I would work with both of these strengths as much as possible to raise his abilities, including doing math as money, and then trying to transfer the skills to non-money, and getting a lot of books on CD so he can learn even while having reading trouble. If you are unable to get a dyslexia diagnosis to allow you to get Learning Ally, try for either his doctor or a librarian to approve him for NLS (National Library Service, from Library of Congress--contrary to general opinion it is not only for the blind, other disabilities that interfere with reading also count) due to a physical condition that interferes with his reading. I think migraine headaches and so on, and the obvious fact that he is not able to read much, should do it with a sympathetic doctor or librarian. Explain that you are trying not to have him fall farther and farther behind in his learning while you try to get the reading sorted out.

 

On the reading part, my son also needed his reading addressed at the age of nine, things like I See Sam were too babyish and boring. What we used was the reading intervention program and sound out chapter books from www.highnoonbooks.com which are particularly suited for high interest/low level. It took a lot of work and time, but he did get reading with them and is now above grade level with it. Where reading and various other things are off, I do not think you are likely to get a realistic assessment of IQ (and in any case I am in the group that knows it to be capable of changing). I would for the time being from what you have said, assume that there are some LDs even if you did not manage to get them diagnosed and that he is capable of learning, and may even be intellectually gifted in some areas, and that you may reach him better if you find something that he does not feel is too babyish (like Sam perhaps) and that interests him (like money perhaps). I would also suggest that you explain to him what the exercises are for, and that he needs to put in his best effort even if it feels silly or dull, just to get to where it will be interesting.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

I would get the school phonics teacher's guide, sound fan, and student books 1 and 2 while they are on sale. The Happychaps Picture book and wall sound cards are nice but not must haves.

 

http://www.didax.com/shop/searchresults.cfm/Keyword/school%20phonics.cfm

 

I have more ideas for later, we are headed out for a bit.

[Kanin]

First of all, I'd just like to say that you sound like an awesome and very supportive mom!

 

I tutor a 9 year old who sounds a lot like your son. He is very dyslexic, has trouble doing "boring" things like basic math and reading, but has excellent reading comprehension. He is also very physically mature - good at sports, balance, jumping, etc.

 

My student is a Visual-Spatial learner, and your son might be also. Visual-Spatial kids think in pictures, which is why sounding out words is hard for them. They like to learn the whole word at the same time - no starting at one end and sounding out till the end. V-S kids are also good at building, abstract thought, complex math and difficult ideas, but not very good at basic math and spelling, for example. That means they have skills that will really help them in the future, but when they are 9, they get judged b/c they can't spell or do basic math or reading.

 

This website is great to learn more about VS kids: http://www.visual-learners.com/

 

As for reading, your son might really like to illustrate sight word cards, play matching games with sight word cards, etc. You can also encourage him to try to read the "first three sounds" of a word, and then make an educated guess based on context. This won't work all the time, but he should be encouraged to use his strengths of predicting and comprehension. Books with vivid pictures are the best for V-S learners.

 

Good luck!

[herekittykitty]

ITA with the previous poster that www.visual-spatial.org is a great site!

 

Please consider the Davis Program. I know there is a lot of advice in this thread, but for kids who are strong visual-spatial learners, have difficulty grasping 2 dimensional symbols yet do well with 3 dimensional objects, Davis can be the right fit. My father and son are Davis "grads". There are alternatives to print-based phonics programs.

[ElizabethB]

I think you will also find the phonovisual method helpful. I would order the charts and read through and use ideas from the book (available free online.) There are a lot of interactive ideas in the book that should suit his hands on style.

 

http://archive.org/s...age/n0/mode/2up

 

I use the charts with several of my younger remedial students, it is easier to point to the chart than to say "ai says A" 1,000 times. I would get the small consonant and vowel charts. The consonant charts are arranged by sound pattern, not alphabetical pattern, which is helpful for students with underlying speech problems.

 

You could also try the Blend Phonics books:

 

http://www.donpotter...bplitebooks.pdf

 

He sounds like a great kid! I have a story I'll try to look up for you, I'll rewrite it if I can't find it.

 

:grouphug:

[ElizabethB]

OK, I can't find it...here is the story:

 

I had a cousin visiting, one of her kids had a big soccer competition where I was living at the time. An aunt also came, I had not met her before. (My dad has a lot of aunts and uncles and great aunts and uncles from his side that I don't know well, there are a ton of them.) Anyway, the visit went well, the aunt was a very interesting lady...full of life, optimistic, fun to be around, great with my cousins' kids (this was years before I had kids.) The aunt was in her 50's or 60's and was a widow who had been married to a doctor. She was very tan and said she loved to golf.

 

After the visit I called my dad and asked if the aunt had dementia or something--a few times she had weird answers to questions that I asked her. He replied, "She is mildly retarded (this was 15 or 20 years ago, and he said this in the medical sense), I thought you knew that."

 

She had been a caregiver for the doctor's children after the doctor's wife died and he saw the person she was and married her for it. I would rather be around her than plenty of cranky people with high IQs that I know. I worked with one guy who was smart but annoying and a pessimist, he could drive you nuts in 10 minutes flat.

 

So, whatever you son's IQ turns out to be, I hope he can find people who appreciate him for the person he is, just like that doctor and plenty of other people appreciated my aunt for the person she was.

[Kanin]

Wow, ElizabethB, the phonovisual book is a treasure!!!!

[ElizabethB]

Wow, ElizabethB, the phonovisual book is a treasure!!!!

 

Yes, it is great, isn't it. Don Potter found it. He has used their charts for years, I just started using them a year or two ago.

[Pen]

One more thought I had is to teach him finger math--it would still use fingers, but is much more useful than counting one by one. It sort of turns the hands into an abacus like instrument.

 

Also, I have not read every post, but reading the Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides might give you some ideas...they have some things on people who are strong in engineering type areas as a subset type of dyslexic. And also if you have not done so, Overcoming Dyslexia by Shaywitz.

 

For a TAG (talented and gifted) program in my area, being very skilled at K'Nex or chess seems to get the child in without any IQ score--like you they seem to regard that as showing the child fits TAG. Similar with art gifts. They seem to be moving into a wider view of the idea of gifts.

 

Does he have a hard time holding more than 3 bits of info at once if the bits are not symbolic language bits (numerals or letters etc.), such as a sequence of 5 things to do?