PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 A family who rents from us hit upon some hard times and got way behind on rent. The husband recently got a new job with a regular paycheck plus bonus checks and promised us a large sum of money this weekend, but now tells us that the government has garnished his bank account (not his job) for payment of back taxes which he says he does not owe, but does not have money for a lawyer. He says he will try to fight it. Meanwhile, we are waiting for our rent money and still have to pay the mortgage, taxes, and upkeep. We have to take money from other sources to pay for it. The guy has started giving us contradicting stories. One evening he was supposed to come over with some money. He texted my husband that he had stopped by at 8:00, and me that he had stopped by at 9:45 and "felt bad because it was so late". (He could have easily texted me to see if it was OK to come at that time, which it was.) My son and I were home the entire time and I never heard a knock or the doorbell. He also told my husband that he had paid all of his debts except what he owed to us. Maybe he was unaware he owed back taxes....???? But how could you be? I've never been in that situation, but surely you would get numerous letters, etc., notifying you of this. Wouldn't you? I SO WISH people would be straight with us. Just tell me the truth. We try to be good landlords and keep things in working order. In this case we were lenient because the family was making an effort to pay what they could, but now I don't know what they will do. Huge sigh. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Start eviction procedures. it will still take a long time and you can still sue them for back rent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 um, something isn't right. we owe taxes and worked out a payment plan with the IRS and it's deducted from our bank account, not our paycheck. They pull from the paycheck when you have no arrangements with them. And I promise you that they send a TON of letters about your past due amount. He knew he owed. If he called them(agree it's a forever wait) he could pay a small amount a month and it still wouldn't come from his paycheck. If they are pulling it that way he just plain out ignored he owed and they are coming after him. My sister had a renter and they were late most months. And got behind. But evicting is a process and BIL waited it out. Thankfully they paid up and moved out. But it's stressful. If it were me I would be very firm. They have to pay on time or you start evicting process. It's your property. Don't let emotions get in the way. You have a contract. He pays or he gets to move out :-) So back to the tax thing....it's a red flag in how they are taking the money. And the change in stories isn't good. Evict them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 can you just tell him that he has 24 hours to pay or you will start the eviction process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 um, something isn't right. we owe taxes and worked out a payment plan with the IRS and it's deducted from our bank account, not our paycheck. They pull from the paycheck when you have no arrangements with them. And I promise you that they send a TON of letters about your past due amount. He knew he owed. If he called them(agree it's a forever wait) he could pay a small amount a month and it still wouldn't come from his paycheck. If they are pulling it that way he just plain out ignored he owed and they are coming after him. My sister had a renter and they were late most months. And got behind. But evicting is a process and BIL waited it out. Thankfully they paid up and moved out. But it's stressful. If it were me I would be very firm. They have to pay on time or you start evicting process. It's your property. Don't let emotions get in the way. You have a contract. He pays or he gets to move out :-) So back to the tax thing....it's a red flag in how they are taking the money. And the change in stories isn't good. Evict them. Tess, if you read my first post you will see that he said they are garnishing his bank account., not his paycheck. I just don't understand how they could not have known. He acts like they were completely blindsided. He texted my husband that they were sitting around stunned, not knowing what to do. I can't believe they did not get a bunch of letters from the IRS stating how much they owed. So yeah, that part doesn't compute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 can you just tell him that he has 24 hours to pay or you will start the eviction process? Legally we have to give them a 2 or 3 day (I don't remember which) notice that we tape to their front door to "pay or quit"...pay what you owe us or you have to leave. They can contest it, which means we go before a judge and they get to stay another week or so until the judge orders them to leave. I know because we did that with one previous tenant. What is a real pain is kicking them out and then trying to get back rent money. I just feel like he is not being honest with us. For a long time now they have been paying us extra money as they could, but now it's drying up. Another thing...they had permission to have a small dog but when we went there today they also had a German shepherd which was never allowed. They never even asked us. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Start eviction procedures. it will still take a long time and you can still sue them for back rent. It actually does not take that long in our state. 2 or 3 days if they don't contest, maybe 7 to 10 days if they do, depending on when the court date is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Well that is very good. I know in many states, it takes months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Don't put up with their BS. Evict. Your bank accounts and other assets can't be dipped into by the IRS unless you agreed to it as part of a payment plan or (if they have pursued the case to the highest level) without a court order. If the IRS has a court order, he had to know about it. A process server would have been rapping on his door. He's totally trying to take you for a ride with his lies. The IRS is far more likely to garnish tax returns for future years and maybe garnish wages than they are to try and get at someone's bank assets unless those assets are substantial and the debt is substantial I can't see that a family who is not able to pay rent would be big enough potatoes for the IRS to do more than send lots and lots of letters and then start holding their tax refunds (if any) to go towards the back taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissKNG Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Evict and sue for past due rent, late charges and court fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Tess, if you read my first post you will see that he said they are garnishing his bank account., not his paycheck. I just don't understand how they could not have known. He acts like they were completely blindsided. He texted my husband that they were sitting around stunned, not knowing what to do. I can't believe they did not get a bunch of letters from the IRS stating how much they owed. So yeah, that part doesn't compute. Oh they had to know. It was a process to get bank stuff set up. I had to fight to get the ball rolling to avoid more interest. I had to give them multiple copies of things. He had to have known. And you get a letter to both adults in the house in duplicate for any changes-4 letters every time. Be firm and set out your deadlines and stick to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Tess, if you read my first post you will see that he said they are garnishing his bank account., not his paycheck. I just don't understand how they could not have known. He acts like they were completely blindsided. He texted my husband that they were sitting around stunned, not knowing what to do. I can't believe they did not get a bunch of letters from the IRS stating how much they owed. So yeah, that part doesn't compute. My ill behaved brother owes back taxes and it had to go to court for a judge to sign off on garnishment. He got plenty of letters and notices believe me. He got them in every state he ever held a job in. They got plenty of notices. They probally fell behind and realized you were going to be nice about it so now they feel like they can take advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I would start the legal procedures now to evict them. The judge might help you clarify the tax stuff, but you already know the story isn't right. I doubt they plan to pay anyway. It has become quite an ordinary mindset to stay without paying until you are kicked out; they get to live free for a good long time on double talk and promises. Sorry this his happening. If they were being 100% honest, I might feel differently. Legally we have to give them a 2 or 3 day (I don't remember which) notice that we tape to their front door to "pay or quit"...pay what you owe us or you have to leave. They can contest it, which means we go before a judge and they get to stay another week or so until the judge orders them to leave. I know because we did that with one previous tenant. What is a real pain is kicking them out and then trying to get back rent money. I just feel like he is not being honest with us. For a long time now they have been paying us extra money as they could, but now it's drying up. Another thing...they had permission to have a small dog but when we went there today they also had a German shepherd which was never allowed. They never even asked us. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 My ill behaved brother owes back taxes and it had to go to court for a judge to sign off on garnishment. He got plenty of letters and notices believe me. He got them in every state he ever held a job in. They got plenty of notices. They probally fell behind and realized you were going to be nice about it so now they feel like they can take advantage. Thank you for sharing this. It is exactly what I was thinking, though I have no experience with not paying taxes myself so I wasn't sure quite how it worked. I just couldn't imagine them being completely blindsided by it, without any warning. ETA: Does the IRS let you know exactly WHEN and HOW MUCH they will be garnishing your bank account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 I would start the legal procedures now to evict them. The judge might help you clarify the tax stuff, but you already know the story isn't right. I doubt they plan to pay anyway. It's become quite an ordinary mindset to stay without paying until you are kicked out; they get to live free for a good long time on double talk and promises. Sorry this his happening. If they were being 100% honest, I might feel differently. Yes, I did feel differently about them until the past couple of weeks. They were trying to catch up and would tell us they would be over with a few hundred dollars EXTRA, on top of regular rent, and they would do it. But now...something has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Thank you for sharing this. It is exactly what I was thinking, though I have no experience with not paying taxes myself so I wasn't sure quite how it worked. I just couldn't imagine them being completely blindsided by it, without any warning. ETA: Does the IRS let you know exactly WHEN and HOW MUCH they will be garnishing your bank account? Yes they do because your employer has to submit paper work so their employer would know and they have to submit their living costs so the judge can decide what can be taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splash Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Start eviction proceedings. We post the 72hr notice and if they can come up with what they owe by then we let them stay otherwise out they go. We work with people all the time if they are making an honest effort to make up their past rent but some people just can't catch up and I can't afford to support them and our family so out they go. If they get too far behind they won't be able to catch up, it just isn't going to happen it is just too much money, so we only allow about two months before action. I know how hard it is, I always want to help everyone out but like dh says if they don't pay then we don't have money for our family's needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 ETA: Does the IRS let you know exactly WHEN and HOW MUCH they will be garnishing your bank account? In our case they had a minimum amount we had to pay. It was ridiculously low that we are paying more than double that amount. If we did their low amount it would be a lifetime to pay it off with interest ;-) And I had it set up to pay before they ever thought about asking for payment. It was a slow process to be honest. If I hadn't pushed them to get it set up it would have been a year before they bothered....and I didn't want the extra compounding interest! Even with me pushing it was fall before they pulled the first one. I told them how much on the form I had to fill out and copy and send in. And we had a confirmation letter agreeing to it. AND it was still 2 months before it finally pulled out. The guy has to know something. And they don't just pull large sums. You can pay anything you want. And if you can't do the minimum they said we could do less with additional fees. I agree they don't just start taking money. They are slow to take it, and it took a lot of paperwork to get the ball rolling. I chose once a month for a set amount. You can do multiple times a month if you chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 In our case they had a minimum amount we had to pay. It was ridiculously low that we are paying more than double that amount. If we did their low amount it would be a lifetime to pay it off with interest ;-) And I had it set up to pay before they ever thought about asking for payment. It was a slow process to be honest. If I hadn't pushed them to get it set up it would have been a year before they bothered....and I didn't want the extra compounding interest! Even with me pushing it was fall before they pulled the first one. I told them how much on the form I had to fill out and copy and send in. And we had a confirmation letter agreeing to it. AND it was still 2 months before it finally pulled out. The guy has to know something. And they don't just pull large sums. You can pay anything you want. And if you can't do the minimum they said we could do less with additional fees. I agree they don't just start taking money. They are slow to take it, and it took a lot of paperwork to get the ball rolling. I chose once a month for a set amount. You can do multiple times a month if you chose. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that. In light of what you said, our renter's story makes no sense. That's what really frustrates me...when someone is not telling the truth. How can we work with someone like that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Tess, if you read my first post you will see that he said they are garnishing his bank account., not his paycheck. I just don't understand how they could not have known. He acts like they were completely blindsided. He texted my husband that they were sitting around stunned, not knowing what to do. I can't believe they did not get a bunch of letters from the IRS stating how much they owed. as other's have said - this is a gov agency - they can't legally do stuff like that without lots of notice and many hoops. they also don't take money out of a bank account. if they had that much money in a bank account for the irs to be interested - they had enough money to have paid you rent while he was unemployed. he. is. lying. I just feel like he is not being honest with us. because he isn't being honest with you. Another thing...they had permission to have a small dog but when we went there today they also had a German shepherd which was never allowed. They never even asked us. Sheesh. you have plenty of grounds to evict -what are you waiting for? maybe if they stay you will get money - but more likely you'll just be losing money keeping them. you can, and should, sue for back rent and court fees. ETA: sometimes being the nice guy can help someone in a jamb out - other times it's just being a patsy. they are taking advantage of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Get them out and do your best to protect your house. We are in the process of tearing down a lovely two story Victorian farmhouse on our property because we had to evict the renters and they trashed the house so completely that we just gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Get them out and do your best to protect your house. We are in the process of tearing down a lovely two story Victorian farmhouse on our property because we had to evict the renters and they trashed the house so completely that we just gave up. Wow, that is so awful! Where is the "dislike" button when you need it? I am so sorry that has happened to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieJ Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Legally we have to give them a 2 or 3 day (I don't remember which) notice that we tape to their front door to "pay or quit"...pay what you owe us or you have to leave. They can contest it, which means we go before a judge and they get to stay another week or so until the judge orders them to leave. I know because we did that with one previous tenant. What is a real pain is kicking them out and then trying to get back rent money. I just feel like he is not being honest with us. For a long time now they have been paying us extra money as they could, but now it's drying up. What's worse is they continute to not have the money and get further and further behind. Give them a deadline and start eviction. If you feel you want to continue to deal with them, have them give you some proof of the taxes or garnishment. sounds like they are beyond the truth telling stage and it's time fo you to give them notice and move to evict them. Another thing...they had permission to have a small dog but when we went there today they also had a German shepherd which was never allowed. They never even asked us. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 It kind of doesn't matter whether their story is true or not. It sounds as if they are behind enough that they really have no hope to catch up. When that happens, you have to cut your losses and evict them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 as other's have said - this is a gov agency - they can't legally do stuff like that without lots of notice and many hoops. they also don't take money out of a bank account. if they had that much money in a bank account for the irs to be interested - they had enough money to have paid you rent while he was unemployed. he. is. lying. because he isn't being honest with you. you have plenty of grounds to evict -what are you waiting for? maybe if they stay you will get money - but more likely you'll just be losing money keeping them. you can, and should, sue for back rent and court fees. ETA: sometimes being the nice guy can help someone in a jamb out - other times it's just being a schmuck. they are taking advantage of you. We were trying to be the good guys and they were actually paying extra to get caught up...WERE being the operative word here. I did do some online searching and apparently they (the IRS) CAN and do garnish bank accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 We were trying to be the good guys and they were actually paying extra to get caught up...WERE being the operative word here. I did do some online searching and apparently they (the IRS) CAN and do garnish bank accounts. not without plenty of notice they owe and warnings giving the person an opportunity to willingly pay them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 not without plenty of notice they owe and warnings giving the person an opportunity to willingly pay them. Exactly. Which is why I had a hard time believing they were blindsided by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Marmalade Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I agree that there is something more going on that what you are being told. I hate people who lie. However, it also sounds like you're trying really hard to extend some grace-without letting that grace be a burden on your family. I would suggest that instead of immediately proceeding with eviction, that you extend some kind of deadlines to them. Something like, we need one month's rent, plus 25% of what is back owed by this particular date. Get it in writing and give it to them. Give them some kind of deadlines for coming up with money, and let them know that if any of the deadlines come and pass with no payment, the period of grace is over. Start eviction proceedings. This way, you're giving them good warning about what will happen- and be firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 I agree that there is something more going on that what you are being told. I hate people who lie. However, it also sounds like you're trying really hard to extend some grace-without letting that grace be a burden on your family. I would suggest that instead of immediately proceeding with eviction, that you extend some kind of deadlines to them. Something like, we need one month's rent, plus 25% of what is back owed by this particular date. Get it in writing and give it to them. Give them some kind of deadlines for coming up with money, and let them know that if any of the deadlines come and pass with no payment, the period of grace is over. Start eviction proceedings. This way, you're giving them good warning about what will happen- and be firm. Lady M, that is a very good idea. I will talk to my dh about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbpaulie Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Google your county recorder's office. Sometimes you can get some info there on back taxes (I know at least on state taxes) and other interesting tid bits of personal info..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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