madteaparty Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm specifically asking about Grimm, Andersen and Arabian nights. What age have you introduced these? I would prefer the undiluted versions (if they are good :)) rather than reading a kid version and then revisiting again. I've done that with some books (Les Miserables, etc) but don't prefer it. Many thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I've been wondering this as well. My oldest is nearly nine and I'm thinking it will be a while before I'm ready to introduce her to the "real" stories. We're huge Disney fans and I don't want to tarnish her fairy tales each time we visit Disney World LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 My boy is nine as well but no Disney image to tarnish as he dislikes Disney! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hmmm... my kids (ages 10 and roughly 12) will be reading the Arabian Nights in the fall. We're reading the Lang books and fairy tales from various countries now, which are enjoyable, but not always pleasant, if you know what I mean. We'll be reading the original Grimm's the following fall. Favorite editions: One Thousand and One Arabian Nights (McCaughrean) The Arabian Nights: A Book of a Thousand Nights & a Night (Burton) Andrew Lang's Fairy Books The Annotated Brothers Grimm Grimm's Complete Fairy Tales The Annotated Hans Christian Andersen Hans Christian Andersen: The Complete Fairy Tales & Stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I introduced Grimm to DD when she was 5 or 6, but we skipped around and chose the less dubious ones--no racist ones, no cannibals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murmer Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I just finished the Yellow Fairy book (preceded by the blue and red ones) with my 3 year old. I do it before nap time everyday and he doesn't seem to have any problems from having heard it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 We've read a fair number of Lang books, and plenty of others, but some of Andersen's are a bit much too. I have a selection for kids and a more advanced volume (trans by Nunnally). I would pick by content. Even Perrault's Sleeping Beauty is horrid -- the second half is about her mother in law, who likes to eat young, delicious children and selects her own grandchildren. I have the large sized edition published by Dover. http://www.amazon.com/Perraults-Fairy-Tales-Childrens-Classics/dp/0486223116/ The text is from Old Time Stories by Master Charles Perrault, which you can read online http://archive.org/details/oldtimestories00perr and http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31431/31431-h/31431-h.htm /// 'For my dinner to-morrow,' she told him, 'I will eat little Dawn.' 'Oh, Madam!' exclaimed the steward. 'That is my will,' said the queen; and she spoke in the tones of an ogre who longs for raw meat. 'You will serve her with piquant sauce,' she added. /// I have read it to my kids, though! Yikes. We've come across a fair number of "negro serving boys" and "negresses" in Lang's books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeslieAnneLevine Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 We did it both ways, but the more kid-friendly versions were not super sanitized or anything--just a little less gruesome. I don't think there is anything wrong with the tales that have been cleaned up a little--times are different now. This isn't a new thing either--in the 1886 translation of Grimm tales into English, some of the most disgusting (IMO) details were omitted. The main thing is that the story remains essentially the same (rather than, for example: "by using their words, the wolf and three pigs became the best of friends"). As far as darker tales go, I think some of those are OK too. When my son was 7, I ordered a bunch of super cheap French books (I was in Europe at the time), some of them fairy tales. I read him Bluebeard (Perrault), The Little Match Girl (Andersen), The Pied Piper of Hamelin (Grimm, I think)... He liked them, but some kids might not. Bluebeard and The Little Match Girl are pretty awful, but I was glad he was familiar with the characters as they both were in The Sisters Grimm books. When my son was around 6, I bought an Usborne Arabian Nights book. I read it to him, but there were a couple of things I toned down because they were over-the-top gross. When I was a child I had a book and tape set of The Little Mermaid and the Mermaid wasn't willing to kill the Prince and his new wife and she turned into sea foam. It was my favorite book/tape set. BTW, I think the Disney versions can be great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 We followed Core Knowledge and introduced fairy tales according to their sequence, more or less -- and added a lot more, because they are one of my favorite forms of literature. 'Nursery' tales (Three Little Pigs, plus some Grimm, like Bremen Musicians) -- mostly used picture books, multiple versions for each tale) -- from preschool/K on Grimm -- beginning in 1st grade -- mostly picture books, big collection. Used Zack Zipes for reference. Andersen -- beginning in 2nd grade. Some pix books, but my favorite is the Erik Haugaard translation, because it captures the style of Andersen's Danish (or so I have been told). Perrualt -- Beginning in 1st grade. Picture books, but also Neil Philip translation, which I like because his tales are translations, not retellings. Arabian Nights -- 3rd grade. illustrated & abbreviated versions. I bolded the "undiluted" versions (to use your phrase) we use. Honestly, I don't mind -- well, I actually like -- to have differing versions, except perhaps for Andersen. Most of the tales existed long before they were written down by Perrault, Grimm and so on. They are part of the oral folk tradition. Andersen's stories, however, were creations of his own imagination. There seem to be two views about whether or not fairy tales should be illustrated. Bruno Bettelheim argues that children should use their own imaginations to picture the stories; others feel that good illustrations can be a art form in themselves and add to the fairy tales experience. Dc went to a nursery school that subscribed to the first view, while I still collect illustrated versions. FWIW, I don't believe my dc have suffered lasting damage by being exposed to both points of view, lol. [Disney versions were banned from dc's nursery school and from our house. No bashing, please -- there is room for all of us on WTM, I hope :mellow: ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Right from the get-go.* I have avoided sanitized or Disney-fied versions from the start. (Nothing against Disney BTW, just my preference). If the story is too difficult for my children, I just skip it until later. Mine however love a good blood-thirsty ogress and have no issues with the stories. I have found most kids to be more resilient than their parents think, and generally the adult is more bothered by the violence than the kids, but if they were particularly sensitive I might screen more. I also skip racist language, as mentioned up thread by Stripe. *Except for Arabian Nights. My children will be married and out of the house before they can read an unsanitized version of that one!! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 *Except for Arabian Nights. My children will be married and out of the house before they can read an unsanitized version of that one!! LOL. Yeah. I was a bit shocked when I began reading these to my preverbal daughter. They will be packed away until high school at the earliest! (Need a 'pulling blanket over head and rocking back and forth' smilie) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm specifically asking about Grimm, Andersen and Arabian nights. What age have you introduced these? I would prefer the undiluted versions (if they are good ) rather than reading a kid version and then revisiting again. I've done that with some books (Les Miserables, etc) but don't prefer it. Many thanks! Though the Grimm stories seem very gruesome, they are actually deeply Christian with symbolic images and language which shadows the King James. They are also deeply moral and are some of the best stories to sink within a child's heart when young. Now, Arabian Knights is another story. Why not? Because to me, they seem deeply misogynistic. The women in those tales are conniving and manipulative (the genie's wife comes to mind) . I also read Hans Christian Anderson, The Steadfast Tin Soldier, The LIttle Mermaid, The Ugly Duckling, The Emperor's New Clothes, The Little Match Girl. They also loved The King of the Golden River, The Golden Key, The Princess and the Pea, The Reluctant Dragon (a total favorite). I have these-- If you want to understand a bit about Grimm and the symbolism and meanings, read this book And This one Tending the Heart of Virtue by Vigen Gourian. It's wonderful. I do not like the annotated fairy tale books at this age because I already know what psychologists say about them and I want to stay away from modern interpretations that are far from what the authors intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm an adoptive/step-mother. I avoid as many fairy tales as I can. My people are not portrayed well in any version of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm an adoptive/step-mother. I avoid as many fairy tales as I can. My people are not portrayed well in any version of them. My mom feels the same way! Eta: I have found Scandinavian tales to be really good, with powerful women and no dreary stepmothers. I have East o' the Sun, West o' the Moon, ed by Dasent, from collection of Asbjorsen and Moe (You can find copies online as it's out of copyright) http://www.amazon.com/East-West-Peter-Christen-Asbjornsen/dp/0486225216/ Great Swedish Fairy Tales ill by John Bauer I have this edition, but it's OOP http://www.amazon.com/Great-Swedish-Fairy-Tales-Bauer/dp/0440030412/ Also, the tales in The Provensen Book of Fairy Tales are not traditional folk tales, but literary ones written BY particular people, and are not gory. Some of them are hilarious. And the illustrations are amazing. http://www.amazon.com/Provensen-Book-Fairy-Tales/dp/0394921216/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Oops, double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma2Luke Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 My son is 7 and we are working our way through the Annotated Grimm (love that edition)..... next year we'll do the Annotated Andersen (but not the stories identified for adults)... We don't find Grimm too mature... and we've never read sanitized versions.... ETA: I also second "Tending the Heart of Virtue" - GREAT read.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecclecticmum Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I'm probably repeating what people here said, but the one that was recommended to me (and I subsequently purchased) in waldorf circles was this one: http://www.bookdepository.com/Complete-Grimms-Fairy-Tales-Jacob-Grimm/9780394709307 And here's something on the Waldorf Library about choosing the tales: http://www.waldorflibrary.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=977:choosing-fairy-tales-for-different-ages&catid=127:articles&Itemid=5 I usually just looked up the grade (7yo-grade 1, 8yo grade 2, etc for waldorf ed) that associates with my childs age in google so : "Grimm's grade 1 waldorf" and I usually come up with a couple of places that have a list of tales used for that grade. hth xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 My mom feels the same way! Eta: I have found Scandinavian tales to be really good, with powerful women and no dreary stepmothers. I have East o' the Sun, West o' the Moon, ed by Dasent, from collection of Asbjorsen and Moe (You can find copies online as it's out of copyright) http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0486225216/ Great Swedish Fairy Tales ill by John Bauer I have this edition, but it's OOP http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0440030412/ Also, the tales in The Provensen Book of Fairy Tales are not traditional folk tales, but literary ones written BY particular people, and are not gory. Some of them are hilarious. And the illustrations are amazing. http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0394921216/ Thank you for the suggestions. Those all look interesting and I've got put one on reserve at my library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I forgot to say, about the second one, the Swedish one, they too are literary fairy tales, written by particular authors, not folk tales. The illustrations in my volume are really nice. There is another edition that is in print, with a red cover, that, judging from the reviews, does not have the same illustrations. I do really like the folk tales in East o' (or of, depending on edition) the Wind, West o' the moon. I think it's the same as Popular Tales from the Norse. Anyway they're available easily online at http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30973 <-- east o wind; this one has some pretty old illustrations http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8933 <-- popular tales; seems to have many more tales Audiobook http://librivox.org/popular-tales-from-the-norse-by-george-w-dasent-0909/ In general, I think the bulk of the evil stepmother figures seem to be found in French/German folktales. I would expand beyond the traditionally popular tales to other cultures completely. I have been pleased by what I've found. There are lots of nice collections at many libraries, so you don't have to commit. I do think the stepmother is often an emotionally safer way to depict uncaring parents, but most of those stories have fairly stupid and unobservant fathers paired with the manipulative stepmothers, and I don't think that is a good message either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 As long as I can remember we read the "real" ones, Lang, Perrault, Anderson and Grimm. I read some Arabian Nights last year and ds loved those but I did edit a bit on the fly for those due to some raciness iirc. We do also read Disney version at times, dd picks them out from the library sometimes and I think I have a couple here that were given to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Most of my kids (my poor youngest child) had The Blue Fairy book as a read-a-loud when they were around 5. The result, one dd obsessed with fairy tales (she wants to collect all of the "Fairy" books), and the other kids who all now have a bit of a dark sense of humor. :D It does depend on the child, my oldest son kept say, "that's gross". My 2nd ds was afraid of everything, so I did pick the "easier" stories to start with. Love Andrew Lang's Fairy books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I forgot to say, about the second one, the Swedish one, they too are literary fairy tales, written by particular authors, not folk tales. The illustrations in my volume are really nice. There is another edition that is in print, with a red cover, that, judging from the reviews, does not have the same illustrations. I do really like the folk tales in East o' (or of, depending on edition) the Wind, West o' the moon. I think it's the same as Popular Tales from the Norse. Anyway they're available easily online at http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30973 <-- east o wind; this one has some pretty old illustrations http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8933 <-- popular tales; seems to have many more tales Audiobook http://librivox.org/...-w-dasent-0909/ In general, I think the bulk of the evil stepmother figures seem to be found in French/German folktales. I would expand beyond the traditionally popular tales to other cultures completely. I have been pleased by what I've found. There are lots of nice collections at many libraries, so you don't have to commit. I do think the stepmother is often an emotionally safer way to depict uncaring parents, but most of those stories have fairly stupid and unobservant fathers paired with the manipulative stepmothers, and I don't think that is a good message either. I'm lucky that my library system is pretty fantastic so I'm getting the Great Swedish Fairy Tales from there and based on your high praise I just went ahead and bought a used hardback copy of East o' the Sun, West o' the Moon from Amazon. DD is still at the age where so loves stories like that so I'm sure it'll be a good investment. I would have done that with the other one also but the price for a used hardback copy of that book that I haven't seen yet was a bit steep. I never think to look on Gutenburg but that's such a great site. Thanks for the reminder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I'm lucky that my library system is pretty fantastic so I'm getting the Great Swedish Fairy Tales from there and based on your high praise I just went ahead and bought a used hardback copy of East o' the Sun, West o' the Moon from Amazon. DD is still at the age where so loves stories like that so I'm sure it'll be a good investment. I would have done that with the other one also but the price for a used hardback copy of that book that I haven't seen yet was a bit steep. I hope you like them! One weird thing about how it was translated (East o' the sun) is always calling the youngest son "Boots" -- it's pretty wacky. I sure hope there are no evil stepmothers in there that I forgot about. I will be so upset! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I read the complete Grimm when I was late-20's maybe. I don't think I was old enough then. It was the version that came with my Easton Press "100 greatest books" subscription. For you guys that read the original to your kids, in Cinderella did the first step sister have her toes chopped off, and the second stepsister have her heel chopped off? And then was given away by the "river of blood flowing out the carriage"? I am all for letting kids read the real thing, but that has crossed from gruesome into twisted in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 My kids listened to the Librivox recording of several of the Lang fairy books, and one nearly has the Red one memorized. They don't really want to listen to the any story they've heard before, so to read to them, I have to search a little harder to get other ones. I am pretty sure they've heard the gory Cinderella story, but honestly I don't think they were bothered much. I just looked it up, and Lang's Cinderella in the Blue fairy book does not have the gory blood section. Eta I asked my kids if they'd heard a version with bloody toe-cuttings, and my daughter said she thought so, and my son said he didn't think he had but would like to. My daughter said she had been scared by Bluebeard for a while but wasn't anymore, but did not find the toe cuttings scary, and my son said no folk tale had every scared him. I would honestly describe my kids as fairly sensitive, too. One cried during the movie version of Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, and the another finds both Pigling Bland and Peter Rabbit by Beatrix Potter scary. I have no explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme824 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 My 9-year-old has always loved fairy tales. I've been considering reading some of the real tales with him soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I'm not sure, maybe it depends on the kid. We began with the Andrew Lang books on audio and from there on to the Grimm and Andersen. My girls were little at the time and they detested Disney-ized versions. They still do. I adore the annotated versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 "I asked my kids if they'd heard a version with bloody toe-cuttings, and my daughter said she thought so, and my son said he didn't think he had but would like to." This made me laugh. I forgot how bloodthirsty kids can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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