Sonlight removing religious content for use in public school program

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I only made it through the first page of posts, but we are a Christian family who has used Sonlight Cores for five years. I think it is fabulous that they are now offering their curriculum without religious content to the public schools. History and literature are SL's strengths, and their material are superior to most of the public school offerings. Not everyone can homeschool, so I am glad that public school kids will get an opportunity to use interesting history and literature materials. Let us not forget that Sonlight is a company, a business, not a religious charity or some such. They are allowed to change their own curriculum in any way they want and market it to whomever they want. I have no issue with it. Sonlight is a curriculum company, not a person and not a religion.

 

Well, that's what I think about any company but it's not what they've been selling. Maybe someone will have to post Sarita's letter, after all.

 

Edited to add: Not sure why I'm still talking about this! LOL Sometimes I have to laugh at myself. At each turn in the road with Sonlight over the years I have been so surprised! So astonished! Um, I think it's time for me to stop being surprised.

 

I was surprised when they kept some forum members but locked out others without notice and then said they'd let them back in if they paid.

 

I was surprised when they ran off the Catholics and other non-evangelicals by creating separate "brown" forums for "unauthorized" discussions and eventually banning people who didn't toe the party line in their posts.

 

And now I'm surprised that the hard fundy sell was only half of what they were doing and not what they really believed after all...why?

 

At any rate, I will do the world a favor and quit talking about Sonlight. I'm thankful I bought my cores during the years when the IG's suited my style (2005-2010 or thereabouts), and thankful I saved them because I don't trust the company anymore and I don't like the new IG's anyway.

[ZooRho]

I only made it through the first page of posts, but we are a Christian family who has used Sonlight Cores for five years. I think it is fabulous that they are now offering their curriculum without religious content to the public schools. History and literature are SL's strengths, and their material are superior to most of the public school offerings. Not everyone can homeschool, so I am glad that public school kids will get an opportunity to use interesting history and literature materials. Let us not forget that Sonlight is a company, a business, not a religious charity or some such. They are allowed to change their own curriculum in any way they want and market it to whomever they want. I have no issue with it. Sonlight is a curriculum company, not a person and not a religion. I like the materials so I purchase them. I don't dig too much into the personal convictions of the founders.

 

One this isn't to public school but a charter ps situation for homeschoolers. Probably most in this situation since they meet in a church are Christian.

 

Any way the real issue is the double speak not that they are doing one thing or the other

[texasmama]

One this isn't to public school but a charter ps situation for homeschoolers. Probably most in this situation since they meet in a church are Christian.

 

Any way the real issue is the double speak not that they are doing one thing or the other

 

Okay, I stand corrected on the charter school dealio, but that doesn't seem too terribly different. Around here, charter schools are funded by and run by the public school system. They are, essentially, public schools. Maybe it is different in other areas of the country. I don't appreciate double speak from anyone so if that is the case, it always comes out one way or another, as it seems to be in this thread. I have all of the SL materials I will ever need, as we will move on from SL year after next. I have enjoyed the materials that we have used, and I don't regret using them. I don't expect people who run businesses to act with huge amounts of integrity, no matter what their stated purpose, honestly. When I find a business which operates with integrity, I consider it an aberration. But I am pretty cynical that way. :)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I have all of the SL materials I will ever need, as we will move on from SL year after next. I have enjoyed the materials that we have used, and I don't regret using them. I don't expect people who run businesses to act with huge amounts of integrity, no matter what their stated purpose, honestly. When I find a business which operates with integrity, I consider it an aberration. But I am pretty cynical that way. :)

 

 

This is where I am with regard to SL materials, and this is where I am headed with regard to companies. Exactly.

[PachiSusan]

I admit I don't know all the ins and outs, but if Sonlight is providing a secular version and leaving the Christian version alone, I think it's wonderful. I've heard that Sonlight is a very solid program and for people who are looking for that without the religion in it will be very happy. They're a business and they're looking to keep IN business, and let's face it - secular home education is booming!! It's all good IMO.

 

If they are getting RID Of all traces of Christianity in their programs, then yes, I'd be upset at that. Don't get rid of one that put you on the map to gain another part of the pie.

[SarahW]

Okay, I stand corrected on the charter school dealio, but that doesn't seem too terribly different. Around here, charter schools are funded by and run by the public school system. They are, essentially, public schools. Maybe it is different in other areas of the country. I don't appreciate double speak from anyone so if that is the case, it always comes out one way or another, as it seems to be in this thread. I have all of the SL materials I will ever need, as we will move on from SL year after next. I have enjoyed the materials that we have used, and I don't regret using them. I don't expect people who run businesses to act with huge amounts of integrity, no matter what their stated purpose, honestly. When I find a business which operates with integrity, I consider it an aberration. But I am pretty cynical that way. :)

 

 

I don't know what goes on in Texas, but it seems to be the same as here in Florida, charter schools are public schools, and usually do the same things as the "regular" schools in a building with classrooms and cafeterias and etc.

 

But what seems to be going on here is an umbrella charter specifically for homeschoolers, like the system nearly everyone in California is under. These are homeschoolers who joined a public charter umbrella, and under that system they want to run co-op classes and use public money to buy the curriculum. Someone in Colorado could probably say that more correctly.

 

The co-op as umbrella charter already strikes me as odd, but whatever, I'll mind my own business. But to then use that to buy your curriculum, and then get a tailor-made curriculum just because the curriculum you want to use would get you in front of a judge in a heartbeat, and then to have the "daddy" who tailor-made it act like it doesn't exist is just all very, very odd.

[beaners]

Well, I'm really late to comment since there are four pages. But it's only a day old, so I don't feel that bad.

 

I think the frustration that many are feeling comes down to the word "allegiance." When Jesus said, "He who is not with me is against me." He was saying that there is no such thing as neutrality. That is terribly offensive to contemporary sensibilities, but its foundational to the faith summarized in the first syllable of the company's name that we are discussing.

 

If they want to sell books to the public school, fine. As long as no action was done or motive was held that brought that ultimate commitment status under question. It looks however, as if they made curriculum changes because some were uncomfortable with the first syllable.

 

However small it may sound, our deepest commitments are often shown in the little choices we make.

 

 

Passages out of context? Jesus also said, “for whoever is not against you is for you." Your point of view may form the foundation of your faith, but it is not the foundation of every Christian's faith.

 

Retrenching their position of serving a particular subset of Christian homeschoolers or the reworking of some materials to make them eligible for public school funding through a charter school, either of these make sense for a company to do. Doing them at the same time is unexpected. Claiming that the leadership of one company has no control over the leadership of another in a small business like that is laughable. Those distinctions are almost purely legal and financial at that level. If I were a customer, I'd be offended that most of the company's "explanations" hinge on me being too stupid to figure out what's actually happening. I'm too much of a control freak to ever use Sonlight, so this is mostly rubbernecking on my part.

[swellmomma]

Meh, I don't care. I stopped supporting sonlight when they stopped including shipping in heirloom status for canadians, changed the IGs and made the LA part of the package, and added crap books back in etc. Basically when Sarita took over, I stopped supporting Sonlight and it is the wrongness about it. When John ran it, Sonlight was designed with missionary families in mind. To teach while they served. Homeschoolers loved it, the company listened to the customers, the focus was still on God, on our relationship with Him, how history worked together with that relationship etc. And then it wasn't. It seems over the recent years the push to make more money, stopped listening to customer, made the customer feel less than, and now it feels like they are turning their back on their roots. Yes I am sure they will offer both the secular and the christian sets and yes they are a business out to make a buck. But to have a company that was not just christian but founded as a way to provide christian missionary families a way to teach their kids, now suddenly drop all the religion/christian ties and market to public schools is does have that feeling of wrongness.

 

I do not begrudge them looking into that market, but I do think they have lost what made them a great company and they are slipping further and further into mediocrity at best as far as how they interact and value their customer.

[Sahamamama]

Yes, I agree with what you said. It revolved around Sarita having read Total Truth.

 

 

Here's a link to that book:

 

http://www.totaltruthbook.com/

[Mom2TheTeam]

Claiming that the leadership of one company has no control over the leadership of another in a small business like that is laughable. Those distinctions are almost purely legal and financial at that level. If I were a customer, I'd be offended that most of the company's "explanations" hinge on me being too stupid to figure out what's actually happening. I'm too much of a control freak to ever use Sonlight, so this is mostly rubbernecking on my part.

 

 

Exactly! I can't believe how dumb they think people must be to swallow what they are serving. I'm keeping quiet because I'm not a customer nor am I even considering their product, but I can't stay away from this thread simply because what they are asking people to accept is so ridiculous.

[hsmom10]

I don't know what goes on in Texas, but it seems to be the same as here in Florida, charter schools are public schools, and usually do the same things as the "regular" schools in a building with classrooms and cafeterias and etc.

 

But what seems to be going on here is an umbrella charter specifically for homeschoolers, like the system nearly everyone in California is under. These are homeschoolers who joined a public charter umbrella, and under that system they want to run co-op classes and use public money to buy the curriculum. Someone in Colorado could probably say that more correctly.

 

The co-op as umbrella charter already strikes me as odd, but whatever, I'll mind my own business. But to then use that to buy your curriculum, and then get a tailor-made curriculum just because the curriculum you want to use would get you in front of a judge in a heartbeat, and then to have the "daddy" who tailor-made it act like it doesn't exist is just all very, very odd.

 

 

This isn't a charter school, or an umbrella, or a co-op. I would call it an enrichment program (they used to just call it "options" but changed the name to Cloverleaf last year). In CO you can file a letter of intent to the district, or to a private umbrella school. We file with the district, and that is that. We are basically free to homeschool how we choose and have to turn standardized test scores (or an evaluation) in every other year.

 

Douglas County offers a one day a week program for that people that choose to go that route. It is not mandatory, it is just there for people that want to use it. They meet one day a week and are taught Language Arts, History, Science, Art and PE. The teachers are public school teachers and they meet in a church. I would say that most of the people that use the program are Christian, but not all. In exchange for this one day a week program, the district receives funding for the homeschooled student. With that funding they are able to pay the teachers, get the supplies for the program, and offer curriculum for the families use in the home. The families can choose if they want to use the curriculum or get their own. The kids that attend this program take the same yearly standardized testing that the public school children take (TCAP, which is not typically something homeschoolers would ever take) The district then uses those test scores toward their district scores. (although I have heard it is possible to opt out of the state testing)

 

I guess it is a popular program, because there is a waiting list for the next year. I have mixed feelings about the program and it wouldn't be something we would do, but I can see how it is appealing to some families.

 

But- it isn't a charter school, and while technically a "public school" it is only one day a week and only for homeschooling families.

[Sahamamama]

Here's a link for THUMB missiology, for those interested:

 

home.snu.edu/~hculbert/thumb.htm

[melmichigan]

Judy just announced a nice diversion - the new SL catalog was released in pdf this afternoon. ;) I wonder if someone actually had the foresight to plan the timing?

 

ETA: Yes, the games have begun.

[Alyeska]

Well, that's what I think about any company but it's not what they've been selling. Maybe someone will have to post Sarita's letter, after all.

 

Edited to add: Not sure why I'm still talking about this! LOL Sometimes I have to laugh at myself. At each turn in the road with Sonlight over the years I have been so surprised! So astonished! Um, I think it's time for me to stop being surprised.

 

I was surprised when they kept some forum members but locked out others without notice and then said they'd let them back in if they paid.

 

I was surprised when they ran off the Catholics and other non-evangelicals by creating separate "brown" forums for "unauthorized" discussions and eventually banning people who didn't toe the party line in their posts.

 

And now I'm surprised that the hard fundy sell was only half of what they were doing and not what they really believed after all...why?

 

At any rate, I will do the world a favor and quit talking about Sonlight. I'm thankful I bought my cores during the years when the IG's suited my style (2005-2010 or thereabouts), and thankful I saved them because I don't trust the company anymore and I don't like the new IG's anyway.

 

Please, can you post Sarita's letter?

 

The brown forums...I vaguely remember that but I thought it was for LLL and CE no-holds-barred forums...I didn't think it had anything to do with belief systems? Someone, please enlighten me. If you would rather do so in a PM, I would appreciate that as well.

[SarahW]

This isn't a charter school, or an umbrella, or a co-op. I would call it an enrichment program (they used to just call it "options" but changed the name to Cloverleaf last year). In CO you can file a letter of intent to the district, or to a private umbrella school. We file with the district, and that is that. We are basically free to homeschool how we choose and have to turn standardized test scores (or an evaluation) in every other year.

 

Douglas County offers a one day a week program for that people that choose to go that route. It is not mandatory, it is just there for people that want to use it. They meet one day a week and are taught Language Arts, History, Science, Art and PE. The teachers are public school teachers and they meet in a church. I would say that most of the people that use the program are Christian, but not all. In exchange for this one day a week program, the district receives funding for the homeschooled student. With that funding they are able to pay the teachers, get the supplies for the program, and offer curriculum for the families use in the home. The families can choose if they want to use the curriculum or get their own. The kids that attend this program take the same yearly standardized testing that the public school children take (TCAP, which is not typically something homeschoolers would ever take) The district then uses those test scores toward their district scores. (although I have heard it is possible to opt out of the state testing)

 

I guess it is a popular program, because there is a waiting list for the next year. I have mixed feelings about the program and it wouldn't be something we would do, but I can see how it is appealing to some families.

 

But- it isn't a charter school, and while technically a "public school" it is only one day a week and only for homeschooling families.

 

 

Okay. That's an unusual set up.

 

If they are taught by teachers with curriculum funded by the school district, and the school district is able to count them as their students, and then they have to take the yearly standardized tests - isn't that an umbrella? Not a full one I guess. Can you have half an umbrella? :laugh:

 

But thanks for clarifying. It's just so confusing when the article says "public school" when what is going on is apparently not a public school at all, but is nonetheless being funded with public money.

[hsmom10]

I guess it is somewhat like an umbrella, but that is not how they refer to it. It is confusing, I agree.

[melmichigan]

Well, that's what I think about any company but it's not what they've been selling. Maybe someone will have to post Sarita's letter, after all.

 

Edited to add: Not sure why I'm still talking about this! LOL Sometimes I have to laugh at myself. At each turn in the road with Sonlight over the years I have been so surprised! So astonished! Um, I think it's time for me to stop being surprised.

 

I was surprised when they kept some forum members but locked out others without notice and then said they'd let them back in if they paid.

 

I was surprised when they ran off the Catholics and other non-evangelicals by creating separate "brown" forums for "unauthorized" discussions and eventually banning people who didn't toe the party line in their posts.

 

And now I'm surprised that the hard fundy sell was only half of what they were doing and not what they really believed after all...why?

 

At any rate, I will do the world a favor and quit talking about Sonlight. I'm thankful I bought my cores during the years when the IG's suited my style (2005-2010 or thereabouts), and thankful I saved them because I don't trust the company anymore and I don't like the new IG's anyway.

 

 

I think I need a Sonlight Anonymous meeting so I can let it go and stop paying attention to any of it. It's hard when you have thousands of dollars and so much time invested in something.

 

I'm glad I bought my IG's when I did too. It's sad that feel like I have to add a footnote to anything I say about SL curriculum to the point that I don't talk about it IRL anymore.

[texasmama]

 

I think I need a Sonlight Anonymous meeting so I can let it go and stop paying attention to any of it. It's hard when you have thousands of dollars and so much time invested in something.

 

I'm glad I bought my IG's when I did too. It's sad that feel like I have to add a footnote to anything I say about SL curriculum to the point that I don't talk about it IRL anymore.

 

I feel sheepish whenever I recommend it on these boards because of all the bad press. I never was active on the forums, just ordered SL's Cores, which we really enjoyed. SL is in my siggie and will be for awhile, as I plan to use the Cores I have with my youngest dd, but I'm sure that automatically discredits anything I say for some folks. Oh well. lol FWIW, I have bought used IG's the past two years and then purchased used books to go along with them so maybe there is hope for me yet. ;)

[mama27]

 

 

This isn't for public schoolers. This is for homeschoolers who are getting together once a week (at a church, I believe) but curriculum is being funding by the public school district.

 

 

 

How is this even possible?

[hsmom10]

How is this even possible?

 

 

It is a program offered by the public school district. I explained it in detail in a few posts up :)

[mama27]

 

 

It is a program offered by the public school district. I explained it in detail in a few posts up :)

 

 

I saw that after I posted. Should have kept reading.

[mama27]

After reading the posts here and the ones on Sonlight forum, the main problem I see is that Sonlight is denying that they are taking the Christianity out of their product for a certain group(s) of people when clearly, they ARE.

That's called lieing.

Why not just be truthful about it?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

After reading the posts here and the ones on Sonlight forum, the main problem I see is that Sonlight is denying that they are taking the Christianity out of their product for a certain group(s) of people when clearly, they ARE.

That's called lieing.

Why not just be truthful about it?

 

But Tammy, what about the more important issue, which is that the 2013 digital catalog is available for view??? Look! Shiny object over here! Squirrel! Never mind that man behind the curtain!

[Alte Veste Academy]

I admit I don't know all the ins and outs, but if Sonlight is providing a secular version and leaving the Christian version alone, I think it's wonderful. I've heard that Sonlight is a very solid program and for people who are looking for that without the religion in it will be very happy. They're a business and they're looking to keep IN business, and let's face it - secular home education is booming!! It's all good IMO.

 

If they are getting RID Of all traces of Christianity in their programs, then yes, I'd be upset at that. Don't get rid of one that put you on the map to gain another part of the pie.

 

As someone who has always wished for a secular Sonlight, this is a big part of what is eating me. They are offering secular Sonlight to HS charter programs and Christian Sonlight through their catalog. Where's my secular Sonlight LOL, something I can purchase for my own use, no charter required? So Inquisawhatever is in the secular Sonlight business. Are they going to offer it to little ol' me? I doubt it, because they would probably worry that that would be offputting to those who buy Christian Sonlight. And maybe they have actually thought about this and simply don't offer secular Sonlight to individual homeschool families because they believe that any increase in profits made from selling a secular version through their catalog wouldn't offset the financial loss of the many Christian users who would move to something else because of Sonlight's hypocrisy.

 

I agree there is lots of money to be made and they are apparently going after some of it. If I were a Christian Sonlight user, this would upset me, for all the reasons named above. But honestly, it kind of rubs me the wrong way even as a secular non-user who has always dreamed about it. To find out that they put out a secular version but I'll probably never be able to get my hands on it because they wouldn't want to offend their Christian customer base. Uh, that cat's outta the bag already, I guess. It's like they don't know who they are! Maybe this will cause such a financial upset that they will have no choice but to go with a BrightLight start-up under Inquisakaphlooey next month and I'll finally be able to get the secular history program I've always dreamed of...

[welltrainedmami]

If you read one of the comments to the article you see Judy Wnuk's response. She is trying to distance Sonlight from the "parent company" Inquisicorp when in fact Inquisicorp's address is listed as the same as Sonlight. The she says Greg Thewes is the CFO for InquisiCorp and not Sonlight, when in fact he is listed on Sonlight's employee page, only a few spots below Sarita:

 

http://www.sonlight.com/employee-profiles.html

 

In a recent Sonlight forum post, Judy, a Sonlight administrator, admits to Sarita Holzmann is in fact the president of InquisiCorp!!!

 

https://forums.sonlight.com/topic/332043-inquisicorpsonlight/

 

How in the world did they think their customers would not find out!?

[Guest Elizabeth124]

This isn't a charter school, or an umbrella, or a co-op. I would call it an enrichment program (they used to just call it "options" but changed the name to Cloverleaf last year). In CO you can file a letter of intent to the district, or to a private umbrella school. We file with the district, and that is that. We are basically free to homeschool how we choose and have to turn standardized test scores (or an evaluation) in every other year.

 

Douglas County offers a one day a week program for that people that choose to go that route. It is not mandatory, it is just there for people that want to use it. They meet one day a week and are taught Language Arts, History, Science, Art and PE. The teachers are public school teachers and they meet in a church. I would say that most of the people that use the program are Christian, but not all. In exchange for this one day a week program, the district receives funding for the homeschooled student. With that funding they are able to pay the teachers, get the supplies for the program, and offer curriculum for the families use in the home. The families can choose if they want to use the curriculum or get their own. The kids that attend this program take the same yearly standardized testing that the public school children take (TCAP, which is not typically something homeschoolers would ever take) The district then uses those test scores toward their district scores. (although I have heard it is possible to opt out of the state testing)

 

I guess it is a popular program, because there is a waiting list for the next year. I have mixed feelings about the program and it wouldn't be something we would do, but I can see how it is appealing to some families.

 

But- it isn't a charter school, and while technically a "public school" it is only one day a week and only for homeschooling families.

 

 

 

Please Note:

 

1) Some independent schools DO allow you to participate in a publically-funded enrichment program. The independent school to which we belong (HCCA - High Country Christian Academy) allows this, and we participate in Cloverleaf. (Our son loves it!) Other independent schools may or may not allow participation in a publically funded program --- CHEC, for example, does not --- so it's good to ask if/when you inquire about an independent school

 

2) When a child participates in a publically funded program like Cloverleaf, and is also a part of an independent school like HCCA, the two organizations share the funding for the child.

 

3) Parents whose children participate in a publically-funded program can opt to (but are not required to) have their child take the standardized test that is available through the program. Cloverleaf, for example, offers the MAP test (not the TCAP) for its students. There are many test options available for homeschoolers (e.g. you can give a standardized test to your child at home, have someone else test your child, or opt to have a private evaluation done in lieu of testing). See CHEC's website for a list of test providers and evaluators.

[ZooRho]

But Tammy, what about the more important issue, which is that the 2013 digital catalog is available for view??? Look! Shiny object over here! Squirrel! Never mind that man behind the curtain!

 

behave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SNORT

[hsmom10]

My apologies about the standardized testing. I didn't realize it was different than the schools. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I knew you couldn't enroll at Cloverleaf if you were under CHEC but did not know that about HCCA. Thanks for the info!

[mama27]

As someone who has always wished for a secular Sonlight, this is a big part of what is eating me. They are offering secular Sonlight to HS charter programs and Christian Sonlight through their catalog. Where's my secular Sonlight LOL, something I can purchase for my own use, no charter required? So Inquisawhatever is in the secular Sonlight business. Are they going to offer it to little ol' me? I doubt it, because they would probably worry that that would be offputting to those who buy Christian Sonlight. And maybe they have actually thought about this and simply don't offer secular Sonlight to individual homeschool families because they believe that any increase in profits made from selling a secular version through their catalog wouldn't offset the financial loss of the many Christian users who would move to something else because of Sonlight's hypocrisy.

 

I agree there is lots of money to be made and they are apparently going after some of it. If I were a Christian Sonlight user, this would upset me, for all the reasons named above. But honestly, it kind of rubs me the wrong way even as a secular non-user who has always dreamed about it. To find out that they put out a secular version but I'll probably never be able to get my hands on it because they wouldn't want to offend their Christian customer base. Uh, that cat's outta the bag already, I guess. It's like they don't know who they are! Maybe this will cause such a financial upset that they will have no choice but to go with a BrightLight start-up under Inquisakaphlooey next month and I'll finally be able to get the secular history program I've always dreamed of...

 

 

I agree that if they are going to do this for a certain group, then it ought to be made available to everyone AND they ought to be honest about it.

I am a Christian and have used SL but this deception...it's wrong. I was thinking of getting the American history IG for high school, but no. Not now. Just because of this.

[mama27]

If you read one of the comments to the article you see Judy Wnuk's response. She is trying to distance Sonlight from the "parent company" Inquisicorp when in fact Inquisicorp's address is listed as the same as Sonlight. The she says Greg Thewes is the CFO for InquisiCorp and not Sonlight, when in fact he is listed on Sonlight's employee page, only a few spots below Sarita:

 

http://www.sonlight....e-profiles.html

 

In a recent Sonlight forum post, Judy, a Sonlight administrator, admits to Sarita Holzmann is in fact the president of InquisiCorp!!!

 

https://forums.sonli...sicorpsonlight/

 

How in the world did they think their customers would not find out!?

 

 

Apparently they think people are too stupid to put 2 and 2 together. Hmph

[Serenade]

Jennay, I'm not remotely outraged but I can't help noticing that Sarita Holzmann revamped her entire curriculum and uninvited long-term customers to be part of her forums because of a calling from God to be more authentically evangelical through her business/ministry (businesstry?), but the whole time she had another company devoted to excising said curriculum of all religious references. She can't have it both ways. If she wants to also sell secular curriculum, that is fabulous and the homeschooling community will thank her. But she can't do that while browbeating Christians into supporting one very narrow Christianesque worldview as the only right way (and the Sonlight way!) at the same time. It is manipulative and deceptive.

 

 

As far as I know, only one person was officially kicked off the forum. The others chose to leave -- they weren't purged or uninvited. It was their choice. There have been people in the past who were temporarily banned, much like WTM does, but I don't think anybody has been banned in the past couple of years, and closure of threads and removal of posts is rare. There are far fewer thread shut-downs on Sonlight than here.

 

I don't feel like Sonlight only allows one viewpoint on their forums. I am not the target demographic, either, but I have always felt that Sonlight was respectful to those with other beliefs. What Sonlight doesn't allow is blatant name-calling and put-downs on the forums; anything can be discussed as long as it's discussed respectfully.

[Serenade]

The brown forums...I vaguely remember that but I thought it was for LLL and CE no-holds-barred forums...I didn't think it had anything to do with belief systems? Someone, please enlighten me. If you would rather do so in a PM, I would appreciate that as well.

 

The brown forums were to allow people (any forum users) to chat about anything, no holds barred. So people didn't have to operate within the constraints of the forum rules on the brown boards. They had a separate password, accessible to all, so that only folks who wanted those types of discussions could see the threads. The rest of the forum users who didn't want to see those types of discussions didn't have to. Personally, I thought it was a win-win situation. There were a couple of people (very few, two who I can remember) who were "banned" to the brown forums because they couldn't play nice on the regular forums.

[stripe]

I am not the target demographic, either, but I have always felt that Sonlight was respectful to those with other beliefs.

I never joined their forum or ordered a product, but I did receive their emails for a while, and I expected them to be about homeschooling. Instead they were about religion, including all about converting and praying for members of so called THUMB faiths. So supporting their company means supporting "outreach" to "unreached" (whatever that means) tribal people (whatever that means), Hindus, unreligious Chinese (not sure what they do with Confucians), Muslims, and Buddhists. Their missionary activities are their top priority, so they say.

http://www.sonlight.com/blog/2012/09/the-rule-of-thumb-who-will-tell-them-and-how-will-they-hear.html

http://www.sonlight.com/missions.html

 

I am not certain this is "respectful" to people of other beliefs, unless you believe they are damned for all eternity and you will save them, and this shows your love and respect for them. I found it not very pleasing to receive and so I no longer do, and I would never buy their stuff,

[Kathryn]

 

 

As far as I know, only one person was officially kicked off the forum. The others chose to leave -- they weren't purged or uninvited. It was their choice. There have been people in the past who were temporarily banned, much like WTM does, but I don't think anybody has been banned in the past couple of years, and closure of threads and removal of posts is rare. There are far fewer thread shut-downs on Sonlight than here.

 

I don't feel like Sonlight only allows one viewpoint on their forums. I am not the target demographic, either, but I have always felt that Sonlight was respectful to those with other beliefs. What Sonlight doesn't allow is blatant name-calling and put-downs on the forums; anything can be discussed as long as it's discussed respectfully.

 

That is absolutely untrue. This time last year, there were MANY threads shut down and posts deleted or heavily moderated because people were talking about them putting back in books that John had been very vocal about his reasons for taking out. Judy's double-speak was as ridiculous then as it is now and she quickly shut down any dissent. It was, more than anything, what I saw in how forum members were treated then that made me decide to never give them another cent of my money. I used all my rewards money to place my last order last spring, making sure I didn't go over and have to actually spend money. I would never support that company again knowing what I know now of them. All of this is just entertainment to me at this point. I'm over them and don't care what they do, but it's like a train wreck I can't look away from.

[Jonibee]

But Tammy, what about the more important issue, which is that the 2013 digital catalog is available for view??? Look! Shiny object over here! Squirrel! Never mind that man behind the curtain!

 

Snort.

 

Ha.ha. I first typed that and almost hit the reply button while only typing "snot". Maybe that fits, too. Gosh, I'm feeling snarky.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

As far as I know, only one person was officially kicked off the forum. The others chose to leave -- they weren't purged or uninvited. It was their choice. There have been people in the past who were temporarily banned, much like WTM does, but I don't think anybody has been banned in the past couple of years, and closure of threads and removal of posts is rare. There are far fewer thread shut-downs on Sonlight than here.

 

I don't feel like Sonlight only allows one viewpoint on their forums. I am not the target demographic, either, but I have always felt that Sonlight was respectful to those with other beliefs. What Sonlight doesn't allow is blatant name-calling and put-downs on the forums; anything can be discussed as long as it's discussed respectfully.

 

 

I do not agree. My experience and my opinion match Kathryn's.

[Kathryn]

And another thing ;)

The threads I've seen deleted or locked here are for people being mean or posting about topics that have been banned because people were being mean. The deleted/locked posts I've seen over there were all for not agreeing with them or questioning their decisions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've NEVER seen or heard of a post deleted or locked here for disagreeing with SWB, her religious views, or questioning why she includes certain materials in her curriculum. Obviously, it's their forum and their right to police as they want, but it's my right to find it patronizing, find them hypocritical, leave, and talk about my experience should it be relevant to the conversation.

[nmoira]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've NEVER seen or heard of a post deleted or locked here for disagreeing with SWB, her religious views, or questioning why she includes certain materials in her curriculum.

 

 

There was one, but the poster in question was being aggressive and rude. Even then, SWB was *far* more patient than I would have been. She's a classy woman.

[Guest Elizabeth124]

My apologies about the standardized testing. I didn't realize it was different than the schools. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I knew you couldn't enroll at Cloverleaf if you were under CHEC but did not know that about HCCA. Thanks for the info!

 

 

No problem! I'm glad you found my input helpful. I forgot to mention that homeschool enrichment programs are offered by a number of school districts in the metro area, and the tests they offer may vary by location/district. For example, Cherry Creek School District has a homeschool enrichment program at Orchard and I-25; last year, they offered the Iowa Test of Basic Skills --- not sure if they did ITBS again this year.

 

Also, if you live in one district, you're not confined to the program offered by your district. For example, we live in the Denver Public Schools district, but attend a program in the Douglas County Schools district. We checked out a number of locations before we decided on Cloverleaf in DCS. I'm so glad we have the freedom to choose the program that is the best fit for our child(ren).

[melmichigan]

Please Note:

 

1) Some independent schools DO allow you to participate in a publically-funded enrichment program. The independent school to which we belong (HCCA - High Country Christian Academy) allows this, and we participate in Cloverleaf. (Our son loves it!) Other independent schools may or may not allow participation in a publically funded program --- CHEC, for example, does not --- so it's good to ask if/when you inquire about an independent school

 

2) When a child participates in a publically funded program like Cloverleaf, and is also a part of an independent school like HCCA, the two organizations share the funding for the child.

 

3) Parents whose children participate in a publically-funded program can opt to (but are not required to) have their child take the standardized test that is available through the program. Cloverleaf, for example, offers the MAP test (not the TCAP) for its students. There are many test options available for homeschoolers (e.g. you can give a standardized test to your child at home, have someone else test your child, or opt to have a private evaluation done in lieu of testing). See CHEC's website for a list of test providers and evaluators.

 

 

Elizabeth,

 

Thank you for adding to the discussion. Do you use Sonlight/InquisiCorp/Flashbright materials? If so did you believe you were purchasing Sonlight materials? Has the school district just been wrong and they haven't been dealing with Sonlight all this time as we are being told? I'd love to hear Cloverleaf's view, or those of it's parents, on the comments Sonlight is posting in response to the newspaper article. :bigear:

 

I wish we had programs like this in Michigan. :drool5:

[Sahamamama]

And another thing ;)

The threads I've seen deleted or locked here are for people being mean or posting about topics that have been banned because people were being mean. The deleted/locked posts I've seen over there were all for not agreeing with them or questioning their decisions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've NEVER seen or heard of a post deleted or locked here for disagreeing with SWB, her religious views, or questioning why she includes certain materials in her curriculum. Obviously, it's their forum and their right to police as they want, but it's my right to find it patronizing, find them hypocritical, leave, and talk about my experience should it be relevant to the conversation.

 

There was one, but the poster in question was being aggressive and rude. Even then, SWB was *far* more patient than I would have been. She's a classy woman.

 

 

I remember that one, yes, the poster was aggressively rude to SWB. Good grief.

 

Kathryn's right, threads here are poofed when they either get too long (kilts, cupcakes) or take a turn into meanness.

 

But I don't think we can post about this, actually, except to say that there's a difference between deleting posts for disagreeing with the company's owners and a deleting posts because they are nasty.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

After much research and reading I am feeling SL/Inquisicorp/Brightflash are not being honest or trying to mislead with all the doubletalk they are doing. Also with a small company that is having enough trouble keeping up with their constant changes and the whiplash beliefs they want their curriculum to hold/teach I just don't feel it will be able to maintain their quality or the quality I felt SL had. I like the SL material of the past and feel it had merit so will be purchasing used IG's that reflect the SL I wanted and fell in live with, We will as of now, still use SL but only from the older IG's. The new ones seem to be taking a much flipflop route that I will not be able to keep it straight. The newest twist is they do not know if they believe in young earth/old earth or somewhere in between and will see what their costumers feel about it. Even Jesus said choose one way or the other but to be wishywashy then he will have spit you out (paraphrased by me).

Deception no matter how subtle is wrong and does not portray a Christian character. They are saying one thing but the evidence presented is showing another. Not everything is misinformation.

[Jonibee]

Yes. I updated my siggy just now to take out the references to the Sonlight programs my kids are using. Well, they read books. They use the schedule sometimes. My Sonlight guides are so old that there are very few notes, and I just don't think they are comparable to what they sell now.

 

I just don't want to admit anymore that we are using Sonlight. I have been a closet user IRL for years and I have recommended it to no one. I am really starting to be ashamed to say I still like it. The old, old SL.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Jonibee, I'm the same. I still use SL, but the SL I use is from 2005. Not the same IG's, not the same quality, not the same focus. (In my opinion.) So there's no point in saying I use SL as part of my kids' curriculum when what I use isn't available for anyone to purchase now. It's gone. And I stopped recommending SL when the science guides and elementary Core IG's were fundy-ized. I certainly can't recommend that THUMB thing.

[lamppost]

 

 

2) When a child participates in a publically funded program like Cloverleaf, and is also a part of an independent school like HCCA, the two organizations share the funding for the child.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by sharing the funding. I looked at the HCCA website and it says it's a private school. Are you saying that HCCA receives a portion of your child's per-pupil funding from the state?

[wapiti]

 

 

 

No problem! I'm glad you found my input helpful. I forgot to mention that homeschool enrichment programs are offered by a number of school districts in the metro area, and the tests they offer may vary by location/district. For example, Cherry Creek School District has a homeschool enrichment program at Orchard and I-25; last year, they offered the Iowa Test of Basic Skills --- not sure if the did ITBS again this year.

 

Also, if you live in one district, you're not confined to the program offered by your district. For example, we live in the Denver Public Schools district, but attend a program in the Douglas County Schools district. We checked out a number of locations before we decided on Cloverleaf in DCS. I'm so glad we have the freedom to choose the program that is the best fit for our child(ren).

 

 

I liked this flexibility. We live in DCSD but participated in a different district's one-day homeschool enrichment program last year. And, my dd took the MAP through DCSD but not via Cloverleaf.

[melmichigan]

I like the wording of this poster in Dear Sonlight. The response from SL is changing.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I like the wording of this poster in Dear Sonlight. The response from SL is changing.

 

How nice of them to type out what everyone else already put together. They made an algebra problem out of first grade math. :lol:

 

I still want my BrightLight secular history program. It could be their third "separate brand (and company)." :tongue_smilie:

[melmichigan]

In many ways I am happy for John. I think secular Sonlight has been something he has been envisioning for a long time. I just wish they would have gone about this in a much different way from a PR standpoint. It shouldn't have been this hard.

[awisha.]

I want to know why a secular SL/in a box/literature program (etc) company hasn't been started yet.

I presume it's been MANY years that this type of company has been wanted, so why not?? Is it the money to get started, difficulty getting reliable book suppliers, no established reputation, the time needed to start it or what??

 

I bought SL core B just last month and I gave away the religious books to a friend. The whole missionary/THUMB thing does bother ME but what can I do if I want lots of lovely books with an already planned IG??

I was thinking about buying many more cores in the future but now I kind've feel like just buying core C next year and being done with it all.

 

But then all the lovely, delicious books keep pulling me back!!!!

 

:lol: