How would you handle being a year behind in math?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Because we switched from RS to Singapore (and had to backtrack a year to make sure we caught all the topics so we could move forward without any knowledge loss) DD10 is a year behind in math. We're only on track to finish Singapore 4A/B this school year.

 

How much does this matter? Enough that I should be pushing and tweaking to squeeze as many extra lessons in as possible to try to catch up by the end of 6th grade? I'm not sure we could even squeeze that much math in without sacrificing understand, but I could try if I needed to--she's a very fast learner for most topics. I'm worried about messing up the course progression through high school, but I guess I'm not really sure how much that matters, ultimately. (I never took Calculus in high school because I left a year early and went straight into humanities courses in college, so I didn't need anymore math than I'd already had. I don't really want to plan on that for her though!)

 

WWYD? Would you just keep plugging away at the pace we're currently making? If we do that and she remains a year behind grade level, what does that mean for later on in terms of college prep?

 

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[UrbanSue]

I'm not there yet but I suggest you search for threads about "whether to skip SM 6A/B" and whether or not to do pre-Algebra. My impression is there is quite a bit of flexibility in 6-8th grades, depending on the abilities and strengths of your child.

[SailorMom]

He's not that far behind (imo). Also - math isn't something that should be rushed. These years of getting the basics really cemented in are crucial to having success in algebra and geometry. I see so many kids in high school here that didn't get what they needed when they were younger and are now struggling and often failing in math.

No stress. Just maybe slowly chip away at catching up. If he gets to a chapter you don't think is crucial - or that he understands quickly - spend less time on it so that you can move on.

[Punks in Ontario]

This happened to my older guys. We just kept going at a pace he could handle without making a big deal of it. SM6 is more of a solidification year that may go quickly for him (or not). FWIW, my guy was a year behind with Singapore and NEM but I transferred him into a grade level Canadian text with absolutely no problems in grade 10. He's doing fine. My next guy started 1 1/2 level behind, but was caught up by the end of grade 6. He is now working about a year ahead compared to the schools.

 

This adds credibility to the idea that SM is about a year ahead.

 

You know your daughter best, but SM books actually takes less than a year to complete with a lesson/day. My guys can easily do 2 1/2 books/year. I might encourage her to do two or three lessons in the easier sections such as tesselations, angles and symmetry. You will likely be able to get at least most of SM5 and 6 done next year. Catching up is much harder past this level.

[kohlby]

I'm not familiar enough with that curriculum to know what age ends up Alg I. Some curriculums put Alg I as 8th grade. But taking Algebra I in 9th grade is perfectly normal. So, if your child is on track to take Alg I in 9th grade, I wouldn't worry about being "behind." If you're not on track to do Alg I until 10th grade, I still wouldn't worry all that much about it. When I taught high school math, we did block scheduling - 4 courses each semester. That allowed students to easily fit in extras of math if they didn't pass or were behind. If your child decides they want to go into a math related field, you can catch up later.

[chiguirre]

 

WWYD? Would you just keep plugging away at the pace we're currently making? If we do that and she remains a year behind grade level, what does that mean for later on in terms of college prep?

 

 

 

If you stay with SM, the upper level books finish Alg. 2 and Geometry so you'll still have time for pre-calc.

[dbmamaz]

yeah, singapore runs a year ahead of most US schools.

 

i started homeschooling my teen in 8th grade. his 7th grade pre-algebra teacher told me to put him in algebra, but we tried 4 programs and every one failed. we made NO progress in math at all.

 

in 9th grade, I started with the upper level singapore, and this has been great for him. note that, starting in 9th, we were 2 years behind. But i dont care. Math is a really hard subject for him and he gets a lot of math anxiety. In fact, i did review with LOF algebra (one of our previous fails) over the summer, because i want him to really know the math more than I want him to rush through it.

 

Now, at this schedule - he still gets to trig by senior year. Which is fine imo! He's not going straight to 4-year college, and the 2-year programs, some of them only assume kids have finished algebra and geometry. they have a pre-test and remedial classes. So for us, i'm just not worried at all.

 

so you arent really behind. if your child is highly motivated to go to college for a high-tech major that requires calculus before college, she'll be ready to work through summers to catch up. if not, she'll be fine . . .

[AimeeM]

I don't think you're really behind. While our own stint with Singapore was short lived, when I was doing research on this board, it seemed fairly common for children who hadn't started with Singapore (from the beginning) work a year "behind" - Singapore tends to be "ahead" of most public school (and many homeschool) math curricula.

[Spy Car]

While I think Primary Mathematics is a better math program than the one used in our school system, which is why we use it to "afterschool," I don't concur with the idea that it is "a year ahead." Not here in California anyway.

 

To the OP, most schools (and many homeschoolers) treat the school-year as a 180 affair. That leaves another 180 potential work days and 5 days for goofing off. 6 in a leap-year.

 

I would not "rush" anything. Teaching for understanding should always be the primary concern. But with application of effort you have plenty of time to (slowly) make up for any lost ground. If it were me I'd set reasonable goals to close the gap.

 

The good news is Primary Mathematics is a pretty time efficient math program once you get used to it.

 

Bill

[claluck]

I know the public school here recently changed over to singapore math and all the of the kids 3rd grade up pretty much had to start a year behind. When I brought my kiddos home in 3rd and 4th grade we had to start my 4th grader a year behind. WE decided to go with math mammoth for money reasons. BUT we did fast track him a bit and now he is right where he should be in 5b in 5th grade. He tested ahead in math on standardized testing but could not test on level with the singapore math or MM. We actually skipped a couple sectionsand worked through the summers and then sped through chapters he could easily grasp. Then we go slow on the chapters he struggles more with. I really teach to his pace and how he grasps it. Its a perk of homeschooling, why spend multiple days on a subject he gets? And I can take more time on the subjects he struggles more with.

 

Christina

[sassenach]

My 10yo is in 4AB this year and I consider him on track. I would not rush, just keep at his pace. There is a LOT of flexibility in the middle school years. Rushing had zero benefit and risks some long term damage.

[boscopup]

Go at your kid's pace. Even working a year behind (and if you compare to your public school, it may or may not be "behind"), you would still hit algebra in 9th at the latest, or if your kid is ready for prealgebra after 5B or algebra after 6B, you can go that route (many here do). There will probably be chapters that you can go more quickly through. I know sometimes my son hits a topic where he needs to do 2-3 lessons that day to make the work take a meaningful amount of time. If the lesson only takes 5 minutes, clearly we can do another lesson or two. ;)

 

Scope and sequence differences are very interesting. When my son was about halfway through 4B, I took a look at a Saxon placement test, just for grins. He would have placed into 7/6! As it is, we plan to do prealgebra after 5B, and I think the only thing I need to go over with him before doing so is multiplying/dividing negative numbers, which I've touched on a bit here and there when it has come up in discussion. So no, I would not worry about being a "year behind" in Singapore math. If my kid were a "year behind" in Teaching Textbooks or Saxon, I might be a little more concerned (not that those programs are bad! Just that the scope and sequences are different). I'll bet on a standardized test, your child would do fine in the math section, despite working a "year behind" in Singapore. My friend using CLE for her DD was a "year behind" in CLE, and her DD scored *very* well in the math section of a standardized test. As she has listened to her DD's friends from school and those friends' mothers talk about what they're doing in the public school, she's well ahead of what they're doing. CLE has a similar scope and sequence to that of Singapore. So really, I would not be overly concerned, but also you may be able to "catch up" sometime in the next year anyway. Like others said, Singapore usually doesn't take a full year. I just checked my lesson plans in HST+... 5A has 82 lessons (including 3 days for placement test at the end of the book) and 5B has 83 lessons (including 3 days of placement test). If you don't do the 3 days for each placement test, that's 79+80=159 lessons. And again, some of those you can skip or double up on very easily. I don't do every review. If we just did a review a week ago, I don't think my son needs to do another one quite yet. ;) I like to get a little space in there between reviews. We only do one type of review each time as well - textbook or workbook, not both. My lesson numbers account for that.

[Embassy]

I started my 3rd grader in 2A. We did math through the summer and pretty much completed 3 books per year. He just finished 5B in the middle of 5th grade. The past 6 months we have been compacting and accelerating Singapore for other reasons, but he was on pace to finish 5B before he started 6th grade.

[Lori D.]

Because we switched from RS to Singapore (and had to backtrack a year to make sure we caught all the topics so we could move forward without any knowledge loss) DD10 is a year behind in math. We're only on track to finish Singapore 4A/B this school year. WWYD?

 

 

 

First, I highly commend you for backtracking to make sure you filled in gaps! Awesome! :hurray: Too many people worry about "falling behind" and don't take the time to make sure the student is solid with the *foundational* math.

 

Second, this may not be a problem at all. Many students finish Singapore levels early -- we usually finished in about 32 weeks, so that leaves you room to do the next unit or two of the next level, OR, do so some sort of other supplement.

 

 

You asked: "WWYD?"

I personally would just keep on at the pace at which your DD learns and retains and not worry about grade levels. In fact, since she is a fast learner, I'd strongly suggest adding something else from a different perspective as a supplement to really encourage making connections and math thinking.

 

If the student moved ahead quickly, and finished 6A/B along about the end of grade 6, fine. If not, then keep working.

 

But most of all, I would make full use of the time from now all the way through the end of 7th grade and fully use Singapore and supplements to have the best math foundation possible, and not even consider trying Algebra before grade 8. And if it were my student, and I didn't feel she was solid by grade 8, I'd probably work on whatever specific areas needed help, and work through the Keys to Algebra series as an early first exposure to Algebra in grade 8 and then start Algebra in grade 9.

 

 

 

...How much does this matter?

... Would you just keep plugging away at the pace we're currently making? If we do that and she remains a year behind grade level, what does that mean for later on in terms of college prep?

 

Singapore tends to run a grade ahead, so if you 10yo is at 5th grade level doing Singapore 4A/B, then you're right on the average. Much of Singapore 6A/B is using pre-algebra skills, so if you are doing Singapore 6A/B in 7th grade, then you are right on track for doing Algebra in grade 8, which keeps you right on track for the typical advanced math sequence in high school:

 

gr. 8 = Algebra 1

gr. 9 = Geometry

gr. 10 = Algebra 2

gr. 11 = Pre-Calc/Trig

gr. 12 = Calculus, Statistics, or other

 

Side note: just for your future information and planning: the current trend for state high school graduation requirements, and admission requirements to 4-year colleges, is to have completed math through at LEAST Algebra 2, and a majority are wanting the Pre-Calc/Trig. If your student will be going into a STEM field, then you definitely want to have also completed a Calculus, Statistics or other Advanced Math course beyond the Pre-Calc/Trig.

 

Please note, there are many ways to accomplish this, even if your student does not start Algebra 1 until 9th grade. For example: doing Geometry and Algebra 2 concurrently. Or, taking the last 2 years of high school math as 1-semester courses via dual enrollment at a community college or university. Or, graduating from high school and going to a 2-year community college first and picking up the needed math credits (plus other gen. ed coursework) to knock off 2 years of college before transferring to the 4-year university.

 

I say all this so you WON'T PANIC -- many people, esp. those who do Singapore, finish in 6th grade and then want to jump into Algebra 1 in 7th, and while some students can do it, generally it is MUCH EASIER for the student if you will just wait to start Algebra 1 until they are somewhere along about age 13-14, as that is when the abstract thinking and logic portions of the brain begin to mature.

 

Yes, you can do Algebra before brain maturation in those areas -- but it's usually a lot harder, slower and more frustrating for student and parent alike. Many homeschoolers instead choose to do a Pre-Algebra program, or do some math from a different perspective (such as Art of Problem Solving or Life of Fred), to practice the math skills that will be used in Algebra and to practice problem-solving skills.

 

 

Again, JMO, BUT... at this age/stage it is FAR more important to work at the student's level and ability and make sure the student gets a *solid* foundation in math fundamentals -- the 4 operations -- and a very comfortable working ability with fractions, decimals, percents, and negative numbers. Those two things, more than anything else will help eliminate a LARGE number of problems students encounter when they hit Algebra and the high school maths.

 

BEST of luck in your math journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

OK, thanks everyone. The responses have been very comforting. We'll keep plugging along. So far we've been moving pretty quickly because we've been covering easier/familiar material, but now we're going to come up on a few things that I think will be sticking points, so we'll slow down there if we need to.

 

I appreciate all the input!

[Crimson Wife]

While I think Primary Mathematics is a better math program than the one used in our school system, which is why we use it to "afterschool," I don't concur with the idea that it is "a year ahead." Not here in California anyway.

 

And I'm going to respectfully disagree with you once again. Every month I have to correlate what my kids are doing in Singapore with something on the CA math standards for the purposes of our virtual charter. For all the MAJOR topics, Singapore runs ahead by 3rd grade. I have also seen what the local PS kids do in their math textbooks (Houghton-Mifflin CA Math), and Singapore often is two full years ahead of that.

[Spy Car]

 

 

And I'm going to respectfully disagree with you once again. Every month I have to correlate what my kids are doing in Singapore with something on the CA math standards for the purposes of our virtual charter. For all the MAJOR topics, Singapore runs ahead by 3rd grade. I have also seen what the local PS kids do in their math textbooks (Houghton-Mifflin CA Math), and Singapore often is two full years ahead of that.

 

And I work with my son everyday on his math, and I'm just not seeing the "year ahead" proposition evidenced. I (strongly) prefer Primary Mathematics and especially with IPs and CWPs and other supplements it is a better and deeper program. But a year (or two ahead)? Not from where I sit.

 

Bill

 

 

 

[Spy Car]

 

 

I'm seeing the same as you. I wasn't sure how SM compared, but after talking to a few of the parents at my son's bowling league I get a sense we are way ahead, or if not ahead, SM does things in a very different way/order. Multiplication, for example, is not even covered as a concept until 3rd grade according to one mom.

 

One mother complained to the teacher that her 2nd grade daughter was bored in math. So he gave her extra worksheets to take home that involved looking up dates on a calendar. Mom was not happy to say the least.

 

This is just my district though. I'm sure it's completely different elsewhere.

 

3rd Graders here are currently working on long division and measurement/area/capacity. Same as if they were using Primary Mathematics SE (the California Standards Edition).

 

Bill

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I've been wondering about the "year ahead" thing myself, and it does seem to be true for our school system. I can't copy and paste the columns from the PDF, but I can see that the things they expect to have completed by the end of 4th grade are things we did in the 3A and 3B books of Singapore. Let's see if I can get some examples here:

 

Extend basic multiplication facts to products of ones and tens and products of tens and tens.

 

Extend multiplication facts, and to introduce the basic principles of multiplicaton with multidigit numbers

 

Measure lengths to the nearest millimeter, and to concert measurements between millimeters and centimeters.

 

Determine when it is appropriate to make an estimate, and to estimate sums.

 

Estimate whether a product is in the tens, hundreds, thousands, or more.

 

Measure distances to the nearest foot, and use measurements and a given scale to create a scale drawing on a grid.

 

Review basic area concepts, and to estimate the area of a polygon by counting unit squares

 

Measure and add distances in feet and inches, to find the perimeters of triangles.

 

Compare predicted and actual results from an experiment with random outcomes.

 

Identify equivalent fractions

 

Order sets of fractions.

 

Find the whole, or ONE, for given fractions.

 

Review basic ideas of probability, apply knowledge of fractions to spinners.

 

These are all topics they're expected to learn in the second half (closer to the end) of the 4th grade year here, and they're topics we covered in 3A and 3B. Bill, maybe your school is just doing a better job than many others'? Is your son's school using Singapore? Ours is using the dreaded Everyday Math, but the topics line up with the timeline of the NJ CCC standards.

 

ETA: I'll also say there were a few topics that we have not yet covered, like decimals and angles, but I chalk that up to differences in the trajectory of the materials, since every program seems to have some topics that don't pop up at the same time as others introduce them.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Sweet Morning Air

[JFSinIL]

I wouldn't cram in extra lessons now - but would continue doing them over summer and any other breaks. An hour a day of math isn't going to ruin anyone's childhood.

[Crimson Wife]

3rd Graders here are currently working on long division and measurement/area/capacity. Same as if they were using Primary Mathematics SE (the California Standards Edition).

 

Bill

 

Only short division is on the CA 3rd grade standards (Number Sense 2.0). Long division is on the 4th grade ones (Number sense 3.0). Just because your son's school is working ahead of the CA standards the same as Singapore does NOT mean that Singapore isn't ahead of the actual state standards.

[Spy Car]

 

 

Only short division is on the CA 3rd grade standards (Number Sense 2.0). Long division is on the 4th grade ones (Number sense 3.0). Just because your son's school is working ahead of the CA standards the same as Singapore does NOT mean that Singapore isn't ahead of the actual state standards.

 

Sorry, but long division is in the Grade 3 textbook that is used district wide by all schools here in California's largest school district. Learning long division in 3rd Grade is not at all unique to our school. Trust me.

 

There are no major difference in scope and sequence between the math program used here and the Primary Mathematics Standards Edition (which is called the Standards Edition because it aligns with CA math standards). Those using the US Edition would be "behind" the math textbooks used here (although I would still prefer using PM).

 

Bill

 

[I.Dup.]

We were in this situation after switching from R & S to MUS. We finally settled on CLE, but we had a year of catching up to do. I probably could have skipped a year, but really wanted her to get those fundamentals down. So I planned it out that we did 2 lessons some days, worked through the summer, and within about 12-18 months she was all caught up and is doing great on CLE math now.

[Spy Car]

These are all topics they're expected to learn in the second half (closer to the end) of the 4th grade year here, and they're topics we covered in 3A and 3B. Bill, maybe your school is just doing a better job than many others'? Is your son's school using Singapore? Ours is using the dreaded Everyday Math, but the topics line up with the timeline of the NJ CCC standards.

 

 

I wish our school used Primary Mathematics. I tried to persuade the Principal to ditch the district textbook to no avail. The school uses a program called enVision Math. It is not a horrible math program, but inferior to PM. The topics line up with PM SE pretty closely.

 

We work about a year ahead in Singapore with my 8.5 year old 3rd Grader in any case (we started young and my son enjoys math) so we are doing PM 4A with IPs and CWP and Beast Academy 3D and other enrichment. enVision 3 (the school math) serves as "review" (and I want to keep it that way because I have my own ideas about how I want math to be taught).

 

While I definitely prefer PM to enVision the scope and sequence is pretty similar. Using PM SE 3A/B in 4th Grade would put one a year "behind" here in terms of scope and sequence compared with our public schols. I'm not trying to be "mean," but that is the reality.

 

I would not "panic" about it, and would rather move more slowly with depth using PM than flying through without understanding and/or using an interior program. But if you (generic you) are asking me, I would—to the best of the student's ability—try to slowly make up the gap.

 

I seem to have a minority view (but that is not unusual :D)

 

Bill

[claire up north]

I'm not there yet but I suggest you search for threads about "whether to skip SM 6A/B" and whether or not to do pre-Algebra. My impression is there is quite a bit of flexibility in 6-8th grades, depending on the abilities and strengths of your child.

 

 

I was going to say something similar. There's a lot of wiggle room around the algebra years. None of my boys did Singapore 6A or B. we also just jumped right into algebra rather than doing per-algebra first. Plus, geometry provides another opportunity to play catch-up, as it can be done concurrently with Adv. Alg.

 

I would not accelerate her 4th and 5th grade sequence because there is so much building up on previous knowledge. Also, she really needs to have a SOLID grasp of decimals, percents, ratios, etc.

 

HTH!

[Laura Corin]

Here's a thought: the UK school year is typically about 39 weeks, not 36. Do an extra three weeks per year and that alone will gain you 2/3 of a year by the end of high school.

 

Laura

[Crimson Wife]

Sorry, but long division is in the Grade 3 textbook that is used district wide by all schools here in California's largest school district. Learning long division in 3rd Grade is not at all unique to our school. Trust me.

 

Look at the actual state standards published by the BOE, and you will see that long division is on the 4th grade one. I do not doubt that certain state-approved textbooks cover it in 3rd, but they are not required to do so by the state standards. So when you make claims about the state standards based on one particular textbook rather than the actual language of the standards, I'm going to call you on it. ;)

[Spy Car]

 

 

Look at the actual state standards published by the BOE, and you will see that long division is on the 4th grade one. I do not doubt that certain state-approved textbooks cover it in 3rd, but they are not required to do so by the state standards. So when you make claims about the state standards based on one particular textbook rather than the actual language of the standards, I'm going to call you on it. ;)

 

I know what is actually going on in the classroom with textbooks used district wide here (and ones which are widely used across California). The kids are doing almost exactly the same scope and sequence as they'd be using we're they using the Primary Mathematics SE in the same grade. That holds for K, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (where my first hand knowledge of enVision taps out).

 

That is the reality.

 

Bill

 

 

[NASDAQ]

My understanding is that California's math curriculum is very ambitious, and operates with the expectation that children will be prepared for algebra in the eighth grade (not the ninth). This is true for the 1997 version, anyway. I understand they've made some changes with the Common Core, and made some changes about . . . 2004? Something like that.

 

ftp://math.stanford.edu/pub/papers/milgram/white-paper.html

 

SM is about six months ahead of the BC curriculum.

 

And I'd work through the summer, if you don't already.

[thebacabunch]

Our school district in CA is behind the Singapore scope and sequence by 5.5 months. It may be more with the adoption of Common Core standards which are behind California's current standards. Having spoken to school officials around here (although I homeschool I have special needs kids so I work with school officials for their extra needs) I know that the standards will be changing to be in line with the cc standards. The Singapore site puts the standards edition at 3B and 4A for 4th grade to align with CA standards, btw.

 

Bill, cross your fingers that your district doesn't dumb down like the rest of CA with the cc standards. You must be somewhere cool like the bay area. I got a grade A first class education there in my day many many many years ago.

 

ALso, singapore 6a and 6b were added for CA so that it had a "6" on it. The 6a and 6b books are largely review and don't even have placement exams on the singapore website. 4a and 4b for a 10 year old seems right on target to me. We will be skipping 6a and 6b and going straight to Art of Problem solving next year for pre algebra. My dd already passes the pretest for aop after finishing 5A of singapore standard ed.

[Spy Car]

Bill, cross your fingers that your district doesn't dumb down like the rest of CA with the cc standards. You must be somewhere cool like the bay area. I got a grade A first class education there in my day many many many years ago.

 

Nope. We are part of the huge (and sometimes disfunctional) Los Angeles Unified School District. We are fortunate to be at one of those all-too-rare elementary schools in the district that really shines. But the whole district uses the same math texts.

 

I decided I was not going to leave math to the schools (alone) before my son was even born.

 

Bill

[Crimson Wife]

I know what is actually going on in the classroom with textbooks used district wide here (and ones which are widely used across California). The kids are doing almost exactly the same scope and sequence as they'd be using we're they using the Primary Mathematics SE in the same grade. That holds for K, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (where my first hand knowledge of enVision taps out).

 

That is the reality.

 

Bill

 

The reality in your district, perhaps, but not in mine. You are fortunate that your district uses one of the programs that exceeds the state standards rather than the series my district has chosen (which is quite a bit behind PM by the middle grades).

[amsunshine]

Nope. We are part of the huge (and sometimes disfunctional) Los Angeles Unified School District. We are fortunate to be at one of those all-too-rare elementary schools in the district that really shines. But the whole district uses the same math texts.

 

I decided I was not going to leave math to the schools (alone) before my son was even born.

 

Bill

 

Our school district (south of Bill) has also adopted enVision math, and is pretty much right in step with the Singapore standards edition, on grade level.

[thebacabunch]

Also, OP, take CA standards with a grain of salt. We are in the bottom 3 in the nation for test scores. Evidently the push to make kids learn harder stuff earlier hasn't worked out so well (duh). I don't know what the rationale was "gee, the kids aren't doing so well. Let's make it harder and push algebra earlier". Usually when my kid is struggling the first thing I do is make their curriculum harder and push them to do harder math sooner, cause that will help them catch up (not).

[Spy Car]

Also, OP, take CA standards with a grain of salt. We are in the bottom 3 in the nation for test scores. Evidently the push to make kids learn harder stuff earlier hasn't worked out so well (duh). I don't know what the rationale was "gee, the kids aren't doing so well. Let's make it harder and push algebra earlier". Usually when my kid is struggling the first thing I do is make their curriculum harder and push them to do harder math sooner, cause that will help them catch up (not).

 

 

No. The reality is California has a bifurcated public school experience. You have students from (mostlly) privileged backgrounds who thrive under the harder standards. And you have kids from (mostly) underprivilaged backgrounds who might struggle under any standards. The math standards are not the source of California's problems.

 

The students at good school thrive. And they will be the ones filling slots in major universities.

 

People can chose which public school population they want to use as the standard they measure themselves against. I just think homeschoolers sometimes delude themselves about what is actually going on in highly functioning public schools. There are a lot of students working at exceedingly high levels.

 

I know when I set the benchmarks and expectations for my child in the area of English grammar against those of homeschool achievements (and I do), I care to make a comparison with people who might be studying Latin with their children, doing a WTM or other classically oriented program, or who otherwise make grammar a "core" component of a child's education. I don't choose as a benchmark those who figure their children can teach themselves how to read when they are ready and are fine with them playing Minecraft all day in the interim. KWIM?

 

Bill

[thebacabunch]

Our schools are mediocre. The families are neither struggling nor are they well-to-do. The performance of the kids is also mediocre. I think I just proved your point, Bill, lol.

 

I pay little attention to what the state and federal standards are except to make sure that we are exceeding them.

 

I still say to OP, you are doing fine. If you are worried you can supplement or do some math over the summer. Is you 10 year old a 4th grader? That is 4th grade here. In that case you are on target or ahead with 4a and 4b.

[kristi26]

My ODS is in 7th grade this year and still working on the fractions book from MUS, for reference, it's often a 5th-6th grade level book. Now, he's got dyscalculia so that's part of it BUT I'm more worried about him understanding the concepts than moving him on before he is ready. He will start MUS Zeta next month and we'll continue to work through the summer as it is what he needs in math. I've figured out that at this pace, he'll start pre-algebra in the spring of his 8th grade year and then algebra in the spring of his 9th grade year which isn't too bad.

 

I wouldn't worry about her being a year behind. She may catch up. She may not. And for reference, 10 is 4th grade here too. My super smart 4th grade DS would be doing 4B if he were still in Singapore math (he did up through 2B in 2nd grade and then stopped Singapore). HTH!

[Dana]

ALso, singapore 6a and 6b were added for CA so that it had a "6" on it. The 6a and 6b books are largely review and don't even have placement exams on the singapore website.

 

There's also no HiG for 6A or B and no plans to make one.

 

We're going to do the IP books and CWP for 6, but we won't be using the text or WB.

[Catherine]

Well, my math-intuitive eldest only tested into Singapore 5A when I first started homeschooling him in seventh grade. Despite this, he took AP calc BC as a junior and had no difficulty at all.

 

ITA with other posters that understanding should always be the goal, whether that puts the child in algebra as a sixth grader or as a ninth grader. As someone who's taught both accelerated and behind math students, the outcome is less large than you might think.

[The Governess]

Our school district in CA is behind the Singapore scope and sequence by 5.5 months. It may be more with the adoption of Common Core standards which are behind California's current standards. Having spoken to school officials around here (although I homeschool I have special needs kids so I work with school officials for their extra needs) I know that the standards will be changing to be in line with the cc standards. The Singapore site puts the standards edition at 3B and 4A for 4th grade to align with CA standards, btw.

 

Bill, cross your fingers that your district doesn't dumb down like the rest of CA with the cc standards. You must be somewhere cool like the bay area. I got a grade A first class education there in my day many many many years ago.

 

ALso, singapore 6a and 6b were added for CA so that it had a "6" on it. The 6a and 6b books are largely review and don't even have placement exams on the singapore website. 4a and 4b for a 10 year old seems right on target to me. We will be skipping 6a and 6b and going straight to Art of Problem solving next year for pre algebra. My dd already passes the pretest for aop after finishing 5A of singapore standard ed.

 

This is what I'm seeing as well. Singapore 4a starts right in with factors and multiples. The other 4th graders in my district are just starting those now, at the beginning of second semester. In my experience, the program is six months ahead, similar to the guidelines they give on the website.

 

I didn't know level six was an add-on. Very interesting. I've been leaning toward skipping it, and this is more evidence in support of that. Dd is a quick study when it comes to math, so I think she'll be fine.

[melmichigan]

Because we switched from RS to Singapore (and had to backtrack a year to make sure we caught all the topics so we could move forward without any knowledge loss) DD10 is a year behind in math. We're only on track to finish Singapore 4A/B this school year.

 

How much does this matter? Enough that I should be pushing and tweaking to squeeze as many extra lessons in as possible to try to catch up by the end of 6th grade? I'm not sure we could even squeeze that much math in without sacrificing understand, but I could try if I needed to--she's a very fast learner for most topics. I'm worried about messing up the course progression through high school, but I guess I'm not really sure how much that matters, ultimately. (I never took Calculus in high school because I left a year early and went straight into humanities courses in college, so I didn't need anymore math than I'd already had. I don't really want to plan on that for her though!)

 

WWYD? Would you just keep plugging away at the pace we're currently making? If we do that and she remains a year behind grade level, what does that mean for later on in terms of college prep?

 

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

I switched my twins back to SM this year for 4th grade. I had to take them back to 3a. They should finish 4a this year and then get through three books again next year to be back on track. If not we will get there by the end of 6. Some things they get very easily, other we camp on for a little while.

[Laura Corin]

ALso, singapore 6a and 6b were added for CA so that it had a "6" on it. The 6a and 6b books are largely review and don't even have placement exams on the singapore website. 4a and 4b for a 10 year old seems right on target to me. We will be skipping 6a and 6b and going straight to Art of Problem solving next year for pre algebra. My dd already passes the pretest for aop after finishing 5A of singapore standard ed.

 

Is that actually the case? I remember the '6' books being around for many years, I think since I started using Singapore about ten years ago. As far as I remember, the reason that they are largely review is because in Singapore there is a high-stakes exam to get into middle school, so there is a year of review/reinforcement. I would assume that there are no placement exams precisely because it is all review - not a place to start into the system.

 

ETA: this company sells programmes that are used in Singapore, not adapted ones. The maths all has a year six.

 

Laura

[Crimson Wife]

There are a lot of students working at exceedingly high levels.

 

Because of the thriving tutoring industry, NOT because of the schools, even supposedly "California Distinguished Schools" in affluent suburbs like mine. If my little one stays enrolled in the PS here past 1st grade (I hope to bring her home by then, but it is unclear whether she'll be at a point where I can forgo the services she receives for her autism), I will need to "afterschool" math. I have seen the math textbooks my district uses, and while they aren't as horrendous as the Every Day Math ones used in our old district (another affluent suburb), I can see why there are multiple tutoring centers in my town.

[NASDAQ]

AFAIK California schools were struggling before the introduction of the new math standards.

 

I don't think that high standards hurt. Ordinary children, taught effectively, should be able to achieve the California standards for 1997. Heaven knows they do in other countries.

[thebacabunch]

AFAIK California schools were struggling before the introduction of the new math standards.

 

I don't think that high standards hurt. Ordinary children, taught effectively, should be able to achieve the California standards for 1997. Heaven knows they do in other countries.

 

While I agree with you, it seems counterintuitive to me to make math harder for kids who aren't getting it in the first place. I feel that the problems are: mediocre curriculum, teachers who aren't teaching math correctly (no I am not saying all teachers in CA are bad. I don't think that the teachers are being effectively trained to teach math), a large population of esl students, a large population of poor students, a large population period (although the other "super states" are doing well in math, just not CA).

 

Our kids need more arithmetic and less algebra in the younger grades. They have a weak foundation and are being pushed to do higher math too soon. If you aren't being taught one on one or with a tutor it is incredibly difficult to succeed with ca math as it is. Just one of the many reasons I homeschool. Even a weak-sauce day at home one on one is more effective than a good day in a classroom would be for my kids.

[thebacabunch]

My local school is a "california distinguished school" and they are soooooooo mediocre. After 3rd grade the kids all spiral down down down in math.

[kitten18]

No. The reality is California has a bifurcated public school experience. You have students from (mostlly) privileged backgrounds who thrive under the harder standards. And you have kids from (mostly) underprivilaged backgrounds who might struggle under any standards. The math standards are not the source of California's problems.

 

The students at good school thrive. And they will be the ones filling slots in major universities.

 

People can chose which public school population they want to use as the standard they measure themselves against. I just think homeschoolers sometimes delude themselves about what is actually going on in highly functioning public schools. There are a lot of students working at exceedingly high levels.

 

I know when I set the benchmarks and expectations for my child in the area of English grammar against those of homeschool achievements (and I do), I care to make a comparison with people who might be studying Latin with their children, doing a WTM or other classically oriented program, or who otherwise make grammar a "core" component of a child's education. I don't choose as a benchmark those who figure their children can teach themselves how to read when they are ready and are fine with them playing Minecraft all day in the interim. KWIM?

 

Bill

 

I agree. The schools in my area are excellent (in academics), I still think I can do better. :D

[Freckles]

My dd is in the honors program at one of the "best" math and tech magnet schools in LAUSD. She is doing well in Algebra in 8th grade because her dad reteaches the lesson every evening, and he goes over her homework with her. She may have a great teacher, but with 40 kids in the classroom there are no individual questions or help given unless it's before school. It doesn't matter what textbook they are using. Classrooms are overcrowded, and harder subject material is being shoved down to lower grades before the majority of the kids are ready. IMHO

[thebacabunch]

 

Because of the thriving tutoring industry, NOT because of the schools, even supposedly "California Distinguished Schools" in affluent suburbs like mine. If my little one stays enrolled in the PS here past 1st grade (I hope to bring her home by then, but it is unclear whether she'll be at a point where I can forgo the services she receives for her autism), I will need to "afterschool" math. I have seen the math textbooks my district uses, and while they aren't as horrendous as the Every Day Math ones used in our old district (another affluent suburb), I can see why there are multiple tutoring centers in my town.

 

Hey, just curious, I believe you use a charter, right? Does your dd go to a separate school? My dd with autism is part of our charter and her speech and resource funding is through the charter district. It gets confusing, no?