ahousefullofjs Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 We are in a tough spot with our puppy. Just wondering what others would do. Our old dog of 14 years was approaching the end of her life, she was the most wonderful dog! We knew that we didn't want to be without a dog so for the 3 years leading up to our old dogs' passing, we researched different breeds to try to find the "perfect" family dog. We finally settled on a Greater Swiss Mountain dog. He is a gorgeous dog from a reputable breeder. (We did a lot of research) He is now 14months and has been riddled with problems; umbilical hernia, undecended testi..., a deformed tooth, and diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia in both back hips and front wrists at 9months. We had him diagnosed by two different vets just to confirm. Both said it was the worst they had seen in a puppy so young and that he most likely would not be able to reach full size (125 lbs) because his hips wouldn't be able to handle the weight. Its pretty noticeable, he sits funny, stands funny, bunny hops instead of running. But, at this point he still acts very much like a puppy, lots of energy and he doesn't seem like he's in pain. Much of the time he runs(hops) jumps, plays okay but will then start limping. His front legs have started to go out on him causing him to trip and fall head first. He is probably at 110lbs now. We can't avoid putting him down, it's just a matter of when. My concern now is that he will be playing and throw out a hip or his legs will give out again but next time cause serious damage where he is in extreme pain. I would not be able to load him up to take him to the vet by myself if my husband was at work. This has been a tough year for the kids with the passing of our beloved family member and now the decline of this puppy. How do you know when is the right time to euthanize a puppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I don't know the answer, but what does the breeder say? I'm really surprised that you'd run into all these problems if the breeder was honest about the dog's genetic history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrin Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I don't know the answer, but what does the breeder say? I'm really surprised that you'd run into all these problems if the breeder was honest about the dog's genetic history... :iagree: I'd get in touch with that breeder. That seems like so much at once for a well-bred dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahousefullofjs Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Forgot to say....yes, I did contact the breeder. There is no record or report of health problems in the lineage. Both parents scored very high on their hip ratings. I did send a copy of all medical records to the breeder (he really didn't believe me) he then followed up by sending a full refund of the purchase price and a sincere apology. There haven't been any complaints against the breeder, I believe it just a very unfortunate fluke that this dog is plagued with so many problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 That is so sad. What did the vet recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Oh, wow. That's an awful position to have to be in. If it were me, I'd probably wait until I was reasonably sure the dog was suffering (by that I mean that quality of life was obviously not where it should be). If the dog wants to play and be with you and eats and all that, and is present and is obviously living life, I'd wait. That's such a hard thing to judge with an animal that isn't otherwise obviously at the end of its life (e.g., old age isn't a factor) though--dogs are often so stoic--but I wouldn't feel right with my decision until I knew quality of life had declined, you know? That said, my position is admitedly pretty selfish, so if I were you I wouldn't feel guilty about making the decision at any time you felt was right to spare the dog pain. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahousefullofjs Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 One vet recommended complete hip replacement surgery. At 15-20k per hip that just isn't happening. (Both vets also said hip displaysia isn't limited to the hips that he would most likely develop the problem in other joints.) Neither with tell us WHEN would be the right time to put him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahousefullofjs Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Oh, wow. That's an awful position to have to be in. If it were me, I'd probably wait until I was reasonably sure the dog was suffering (by that I mean that quality of life was obviously not where it should be). If the dog wants to play and be with you and eats and all that, and is present and is obviously living life, I'd wait. That's such a hard thing to judge with an animal that isn't otherwise obviously at the end of its life (e.g., old age isn't a factor) though--dogs are often so stoic--but I wouldn't feel right with my decision until I knew quality of life had declined, you know? That said, my position is admitedly pretty selfish, so if I were you I wouldn't feel guilty about making the decision at any time you felt was right to spare the dog pain. Good luck. This is exactly what we have been feeling. With the mind and energy of a puppy but the joints of an old dog, it's really sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 With my 14 year old golden, one thing that weighed heavily into our "when" decision was something you mentioned: my not being able to get him to the vet's by myself when his hips completely gave out on him. We nearly had to have him put to sleep at home before he recovered, and my husband and I were adamant that we did not want to have the deed done at home, by a strange vet. So while the one time he was down for an extended period when my husband was out of town, he did perk up (and eventually get up), it was shortly after that I made the decision. Also, just before "the call," he almost snapped at me when I tried to help him up or down. That was such a red flag to me that he was in pain, as it was completely out of character for him. What a touch decision, and how sad for all of you. I kept reminding myself that the dog did not actually know what was going on--it was just another outing with Mom. Our vet made him a bed on the floor and was very patient with us. It was not stressful for the dog at all, just us. Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm sorry for your heartache--both with the loss and with the puppy situation. We've been through a 'defective puppy' -- actuall 2 in a row! They came right after we lost two awesome dogs to old age. Our first 'defective puppy' came from a VERY reputable breeder. As soon as he turned 2 (and the end of the breeder's waranty period) it became evident that his kidney's had not developed-- in fact they were less than 15% developed! It was a miracle that he lived as long as he did (almost 3 years). The breeder offered us half off of a new puppy but they no longer bred the type we were interested in (they now breed only LONG-haired German Shepherds-- can you image a dog like that in the Texas heat!). We opted to go with a different breeder-- again one with a good track record and stellar references. That pup was amazing-- so easy to train and exceptionally beautiful. He was great until he turned 3... they he died suddenly of a rare type of cancer. It was beyond the 'warranty' period, but he was the FIRST puppy in his line to die of cancer before age 10 (old age for German Shepherds). The breeder immediately stopped breeding his sire/dam (early retirement for both) and insisted we take pick of the litter from unrelated dogs. Our new puppy is 'full of life' -- fun to play with --OK to train-- and we love him. He DID fill the void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I am so very sorry for your situation! I personally would not put to sleep any non-aggressive dog who is not in pain, who is eating well and enjoying life, who is able to get up and move on his own, and who still has normal bladder and bowel function. I would just do the best you can to keep him happy and comfortable, and enjoy the time you have with him! It sounds like he is adapting to his disabilities; the tripping may perhaps improve when he is out of the puppy stage and not so rambuctious. I have a friend whose golden retriever basically had no hip sockets (according to their vet), and yet she lived a long and happy life as a beloved member of their family. The vet should be able to give you some pain killer medication (perhaps something like tramadol) to have on hand just in case. If your dog should have an increase in daily discomfort, there are many effective anti-inflammatories and pain killers available to help him maintain a good quality of life. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljenn Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I also would not even think about putting him down if he doesn't seem to be in great pain. All of the dogs I've had (a lot) have by quite ill and/ or in pain when we had to make that decision. Our dachshund was fine one day and diabetic with pancreatitis the next. He literally couldn't get up one day, with no symptoms before that. We had him in emergency care for a few days running tests, and when the diagnosis finally came and the doctor said, "I think I can cure him from the pancreatitis but his diabetes is so bad he will either get it again or die within a year or so" we called it quits. A few other dogs have had cancer- once it started to cause pain or confusion or bladder/bowel issues, we let them go. It sounds like your dog is still leading a happy life! I would let him go on as long as possible- maybe God has sent him for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahousefullofjs Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 I guess he has partial bladder control. He can go all night in the house without an accident but during the day, when he's up and he walks, jumps, runs, etc. he just pees. We all have to watch out for "the stream". He also cannot squat all the way down to have a bowel movement. He gets about halfway and tries to readjust, taking steps here and steps there. It takes him a long time to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I guess he has partial bladder control. He can go all night in the house without an accident but during the day, when he's up and he walks, jumps, runs, etc. he just pees. We all have to watch out for "the stream" Is this in the house, or just outside? If he does do this inside, do you have him wear a doggie diaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahousefullofjs Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 At night In the house he just lays in his bed. So no peeing there. Whenever he's up, active, moving around, he pees so he's outside during the day. Unless its raining. But yes, if he's inside and walking around, he pees while he walks. We don't do doggy diapers. He is a very rambunctious 110 pounds, it wouldn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 No advice, bless the poor little puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 At night In the house he just lays in his bed. So no peeing there. Whenever he's up, active, moving around, he pees so he's outside during the day. Unless its raining. But yes, if he's inside and walking around, he pees while he walks. We don't do doggy diapers. He is a very rambunctious 110 pounds, it wouldn't work. Wow, that's rough. I didn't have in mind a full doggy diaper, but just a male wrap for urine only, like this one, sized for dogs up to 125 lbs. They don't go around the back legs or tail, so they shouldn't interfere with his movement. I would definitely try it; at any rate, it would be better than having pee all over your floor! You can use washable liners, maxi pads, or human incontinence pads with the wrap. I would also talk to the vet about whether or not incontinence medication might help. Poor guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeterbug Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I would also talk to the vet about whether or not incontinence medication might help. We did this for one of our dogs, it helped tremendously. But it wasn't physical abnormalities in her case, it was hormonal. Worth asking about, though. I agree as long as the dog seems happy and not in pain it isn't time yet. If something happened while you were at home alone would you be able to call your dh or a friend to come help? That would ease my mind a little, in our case dh would likely be able to hurry home to help or I could call my FIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 He also cannot squat all the way down to have a bowel movement. He gets about halfway and tries to readjust, taking steps here and steps there. It takes him a long time to go. Except for taking a long time to go, what you describe is a fairly normal way for many dogs to poop. It's not uncommon at all for a dog to readjust and walk as he poops. Has your pup always done it like that, or did he at one time have a different method? If he's always done it like that, it may be normal for him and not really related to the joint issues. If you think he's constipated, changing food or adding a little fiber to his diet may help. Many people give their dogs Metamucil or plain canned pumpkin (not pie filling) as a source of fiber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joules Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 i'm so sorry you are faced with this. :grouphug: Have you considering talking to a rescue group? I found this http://www.gsmdrescue.org/surrender.php I know you don't necessarily want to pass the problem off to someone else, but this is why some rescue operations exist. A dfriend does this for a different breed and they are currently fostering a heartworm positive dog that the owners couldn't afford to treat. A rescue group could possibly find a foster family that could handle the emergency situations that you couldn't and give your puppy a happy life as long as they can. At the least you might find a compassionate breed lover that would help you through the decisions. We're going through cancer with my dog again. One question I have learned to ask every vet and tech..."If this was your dog, what would you do?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Wow, that's rough. I didn't have in mind a full doggy diaper, but just a male wrap for urine only, like this one, sized for dogs up to 125 lbs. They don't go around the back legs or tail, so they shouldn't interfere with his movement. I would definitely try it; at any rate, it would be better than having pee all over your floor! You can use washable liners, maxi pads, or human incontinence pads with the wrap. I would also talk to the vet about whether or not incontinence medication might help. Poor guy! I was thinking the same as this, too. Definitely not a full diaper--that would be pretty hard on a 110+ dog! But the wraps should be pretty easy. Might make life a bit easier for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Have you considering talking to a rescue group? I found this http://www.gsmdrescu...g/surrender.php I know you don't necessarily want to pass the problem off to someone else, but this is why some rescue operations exist. A friend does this for a different breed and they are currently fostering a heartworm positive dog that the owners couldn't afford to treat. A rescue group could possibly find a foster family that could handle the emergency situations that you couldn't and give your puppy a happy life as long as they can. At the least you might find a compassionate breed lover that would help you through the decisions. :iagree: I was just thinking of mentioning this same rescue group. In a situation like this, all possible options should be considered, and as Joules said, it might help to talk to someone who is familiar with the breed and their health challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 :grouphug: to you and the puppy. And your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Awe, what a tough situation. I guess I would just try and enjoy him as long as you can. Whatever isn't too pricey, I would look at finding a solution for. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Mama Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 :grouphug: I can't imagine having to make such a difficult decision about a beloved dog. Greater Swiss have always been on my short list of future pets. I, too, would want to wait as long as possible to have him put down, but I would be concerned about waiting "too long" until he gets to a point when he is in agony or snapping at your family members. Animals don't communicate pain the way we do, so it may be difficult to tell. I would press both of the vets for an answer. Tell them that you need to know so that he is not suffering needlessly. If they are not willing to help you make a very informed decision, I would leave negative reviews all over every online review site about the practices in question. Their job is to help you take the best possible care of your animals, not to make money on them. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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