Remember "Plan B?"

[swimmermom3]

At the end of the school last year, I wrote a thread about my youngest making the decision to return to public school after home schooling for five years. He was missing a social life after retiring from swimming due to an injury and was looking forward to starting high school. I talked about having a "Plan B" where I would sort of study and plan in the literature and history that he would be covering this year if he were at home, "just in case."

 

The "just in case" has happened. Sailor Dude is doing very well academically, but is frustrated with many aspects of being in a brick and mortar school. "I don't like going to school with people who don't care," was his comment today. He had a 4-member group project in Lit. & Comp. where they had to discuss three of the themes in Night by Elie Wiesel and have quotes with page number to support his choices. He was the only one in the group to have done the work. He is tired of people asking to copy his homework. The social isn't all it is cracked up to be.

 

He is satisfied with the geometry class and the STEM physics class now that he is in the storage closet with the handful of smart kids, but the Global Studies class and the Lit. & Comp. classes don't seem to get much done.

 

He would like to take 2-3 classes at the ps and do the rest of the work at home. He's on sailing team or Youth Fleet nine month of the year and on the high school swim team the remaining three months.

 

Oregon is an "all or nothing state" when it comes to homeschooling high school. I refuse to pay for the same substandard outsourced classes I used for ds's older siblings the years they came home just so we can have the credit.

If I don't use accredited courses, then it is going to have to be a "Mom transcript/diploma.

 

I know there are several of you that have home schooled your student through high school without the benefit of accredited outside courses and the oversight of an umbrella school and your child has still been able to get into a good college, right?

 

If I start down this path, there is no going back. Our district will not accept any homeschool credits and would place him back in their system at the exact place that he left at.

 

What do I need to do to make this work and work well?

 

Those of you that know me and know of Sailor Dude, probably aren't in the least bit surprised.

 

I am both elated and terrified.

[elegantlion]

:svengo: no advice, but how exciting. : grouphug:

[swimmermom3]

:svengo: no advice, but how exciting. : grouphug:

 

Thanks so much, Paula.

 

I see insomnia is visiting your house too. :tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: Wait! I don't know if I ever asked you how you were handling diplomas, etc.? Are you under an umbrella?

[jibaker103]

Our school district is the same all or nothing - they will not accept any of my grades but ds could take tests in each subject. If he passes them he will get credit but no GPA. However, we have been unusual in our high school path because of my ds struggle in math which effected his science choices. Here in TX there is no one to report to and our home school is considered an unaccredited private school. We have attended many college fairs and he has participated in programs with no one questioning his grades, transcripts, year in school, etc. except the local school district. I will be teacher, guidance counselor, and principal for my son and issue his report cards, transcript, and diploma with no college or university in the state of TX or the other out of state universities my son wants to attend.

[Mommyfaithe]

At the end of the school last year, I wrote a thread about my youngest making the decision to return to public school after home schooling for five years. He was missing a social life after retiring from swimming due to an injury and was looking forward to starting high school. I talked about having a "Plan B" where I would sort of study and plan in the literature and history that he would be covering this year if he were at home, "just in case."

 

The "just in case" has happened. Sailor Dude is doing very well academically, but is frustrated with many aspects of being in a brick and mortar school. "I don't like going to school with people who don't care," was his comment today. He had a 4-member group project in Lit. & Comp. where they had to discuss three of the themes in Night by Elie Wiesel and have quotes with page number to support his choices. He was the only one in the group to have done the work. He is tired of people asking to copy his homework. The social isn't all it is cracked up to be.

 

He is satisfied with the geometry class and the STEM physics class now that he is in the storage closet with the handful of smart kids, but the Global Studies class and the Lit. & Comp. classes don't seem to get much done.

 

He would like to take 2-3 classes at the ps and do the rest of the work at home. He's on sailing team or Youth Fleet nine month of the year and on the high school swim team the remaining three months.

 

Oregon is an "all or nothing state" when it comes to homeschooling high school. I refuse to pay for the same substandard outsourced classes I used for ds's older siblings the years they came home just so we can have the credit.

If I don't use accredited courses, then it is going to have to be a "Mom transcript/diploma.

 

I know there are several of you that have home schooled your student through high school without the benefit of accredited outside courses and the oversight of an umbrella school and your child has still been able to get into a good college, right?

 

If I start down this path, there is no going back. Our district will not accept any homeschool credits and would place him back in their system at the exact place that he left at.

 

What do I need to do to make this work and work well?

 

Those of you that know me and know of Sailor Dude, probably aren't in the least bit surprised.

 

I am both elated and terrified.

 

I did...4 times so far!! Yes, it can be done. Yes, they can go to college ( my oldest 2 both graduated Summa Cum Laude from very good schools....and had received hefty scholarships. We dis not do pretty much anything traditionally. I found if we went into the school and spoke to people....really got a feel, all the ways of admission became very transparent.

 

One step at a time. If you have a willing, hardworking student, the desire to provide an exemplary education, and a smidgen of creativity....the battle is mostly done....the rest is checking out options and checking the boxes

[Jane in NC]

Those of you that know me and know of Sailor Dude, probably aren't in the least bit surprised.

Nope.

 

No umbrella for us although my son did participate in dual enrollment and did take several AP exams to back up those "mommy grades".

 

There are many of us around with kids doing reasonably well in college or the world, launched by homemade transcripts and a lot of worry.

 

This is a tough decision. In a year, either way, you will wonder "What was I thinking?" Ultimately what you and Swimmerdude need to do is commit to what you believe is the best plan for him--one that you can live with.

 

There are no guarantees to success as we have seen repeatedly. Homeschooling high school requires faith in both your teen and yourself. We're talking a lot of hand wringing. Had my son attended our local public school, I fear that he would have been miserable. So there it is--hand wringing and worry or misery and worry. A mother's burden. (She says with a grin.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

At the end of the school last year, I wrote a thread about my youngest making the decision to return to public school after home schooling for five years. He was missing a social life after retiring from swimming due to an injury and was looking forward to starting high school. I talked about having a "Plan B" where I would sort of study and plan in the literature and history that he would be covering this year if he were at home, "just in case."

 

The "just in case" has happened. Sailor Dude is doing very well academically, but is frustrated with many aspects of being in a brick and mortar school. "I don't like going to school with people who don't care," was his comment today. He had a 4-member group project in Lit. & Comp. where they had to discuss three of the themes in Night by Elie Wiesel and have quotes with page number to support his choices. He was the only one in the group to have done the work. He is tired of people asking to copy his homework. The social isn't all it is cracked up to be.

 

He is satisfied with the geometry class and the STEM physics class now that he is in the storage closet with the handful of smart kids, but the Global Studies class and the Lit. & Comp. classes don't seem to get much done.

 

He would like to take 2-3 classes at the ps and do the rest of the work at home. He's on sailing team or Youth Fleet nine month of the year and on the high school swim team the remaining three months.

 

Oregon is an "all or nothing state" when it comes to homeschooling high school. I refuse to pay for the same substandard outsourced classes I used for ds's older siblings the years they came home just so we can have the credit.

If I don't use accredited courses, then it is going to have to be a "Mom transcript/diploma.

 

I know there are several of you that have home schooled your student through high school without the benefit of accredited outside courses and the oversight of an umbrella school and your child has still been able to get into a good college, right?

 

If I start down this path, there is no going back. Our district will not accept any homeschool credits and would place him back in their system at the exact place that he left at.

 

What do I need to do to make this work and work well?

 

Those of you that know me and know of Sailor Dude, probably aren't in the least bit surprised.

 

I am both elated and terrified.

 

Elated and terrified describes many of my days.

[Mommyfaithe]

 

 

Elated and terrified describes many of my days.

 

Yup....that sums it up.

[8filltheheart]

((((Reassuring hugs)))). Yes, we have had our kids accepted into college with no oversighting high school and my simple homemade transcript. Our oldest ds and dd were both accepted w/o any problems. Now,both of them did have dual enrollment credit, but in the case of our oldest he had homeschooled friends accepted to the same school w/o any.

 

With my kids, we don't do dual enrollment b/c I think they need to for college acceptance. We only do dual enrollment for strictly individual educational needs that are beyond my abilities.

 

Our experience in applying to non-top schools has been our homeschool diploma has been a non-issue. But, these have been state universities or small private avg colleges.

 

 

[elegantlion]

Thanks so much, Paula.

 

I see insomnia is visiting your house too. :tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: Wait! I don't know if I ever asked you how you were handling diplomas, etc.? Are you under an umbrella?

 

 

*grumble*grumble* insomnia.

 

 

No, we don't do an umbrella. Our state is easy to homeschool in, our state schools (which is where ds is currently considering) are used to homeschoolers. Plus I don't have to worry about any nagging requirements some umbrella schools might have.

[Karen in CO]

Lisa,

My ds went back to public school in 9th grade then came home in the middle of 10th until graduation. He took science and foreign language at the community college, but we did everything else at home. I continued courses with the same names for the year I took him out part way so that the transcript would be easier and included the transcript from the school as part of our official transcripts. Although I might have been able to get him back in school, I considered the move back to homeschool a one-way move. It really was one of the best decisions ever made for him academically. We didn't make the choice lightly, but we stuck with it once we did. One of the things he loved about his CC classes was that the kids wanted to be there. He said that the highly rated public school seemed a lot more like day care than education to him. We know lots of kids that succeeded after graduting from that high school, but it was the wrong environment for him. I am probably different than a lot of homeschoolers because I don't really support homeschooling. I support making the best decision you can for each child at the time.

 

If you need somebody to tell you it can work - there are a lot of us who have kids who have succeeded this way. You'll be fine and so will he.

[Candid]

We are doing it, but my oldest is a sophmore so I have no future to offer except mine. I have friends who did nothing outsourced and had a son get into a top school (top 30). He did score well on his SAT, but I don't think they did APs or anything.

 

I would suggest that if you can afford it, you look at some of the good online course out there. We are doing Lukeion's Latin this year and I think that is a good additon and next year I'm thinking I'll add either a writing course or math, gasp, maybe both. I am also blessed to be in a city with 5 universities and colleges (2 state universities and 3 LACs) I am hopeful that for math, the last year (he'll do Calculus next year) I'll be able to get one of the private LACs to let him take the class there.

 

I am also considering having him take some of the AP history tests even though we don't exactly line up with their plan (meaning he'll have covered more history but over a longer time period). This is his strongest interest area so this makes sense.

[swimmermom3]

Before I respond to individual posts, I wanted to thank all of you for your support.

 

If it is possible to make one's coffee soggy, I think I've succeeded in doing so this morning while reading everyone's responses and blubbering like a fool. You all have been here through the laughs and frustrations of having Sailor Dude turn my beautiful, detailed curriculum plans upside down - on a quarterly basis. You were there that terrifying day my dd stood on her high school's sidewalk at registration for her senior year and announced that she could not under any circumstances walk back into that school building. You helped to graduate her from high school and to begin working in a field she loves.

 

Home schooling isn't easy but the support and advice from friends and well-wishers on this board have made such a difference in our journey.

 

:cheers2: Here's to you all with love and gratitude.

[flyingiguana]

My oldest had dual enrollment credits and a really great ACT score. She got into colleges just fine.

 

My second doesn't currently have dual enrollment credits, or AP, and her ACT score is only "solid". She hasn't finished an application yet, but she's already getting letters asking her to apply to honors programs based on her ACT scores alone. I suspect she's not going to have any trouble getting into a college.

 

Ultimately, it's probably best to do whatever is best in the given moment, academically speaking. ACT and SAT scores will count for more if you don't have the outside "proof" otherwise.

 

Some colleges will be real sticklers for outside "proof", but a lot of schools are not. That's been my impression. If your son has a dream school in mind and only wants to go there, and if that school is one of the sticklers, you might have a problem. But keep in mind that there are a LOT of colleges. And if the worst happens and no school will accept him, there are always community colleges. He could accumulate a few credits and transfer.

 

But my guess is that you aren't going to have a problem, if ACT or SAT test scores are anywhere in a reasonable range. Even if they aren't, there are a lot of schools that are anxious to take on "interesting" students.

 

As far as financial aid goes, you really can't predict it anyway. Really stellar students with lots of grades and scores may or may not get decent aid. Some kids with "eh" grades can get good aid at the right school. It really varies. Work on letting your student shine in the areas he wants to shine in and you'll have a better chance. That may not be grades.

[MomsintheGarden]

Home schooling isn't easy but the support and advice from friends and well-wishers on this board have made such a difference in our journey.

So true!

 

You and your son will be fine because you are a hard worker, and you care deeply. Really. I think it's fabulous that he's tried PS and realized for himself that it isn't working. That's so valuable! Now you can move forward, and he will be on board.

 

I'm one of those who managed to get two into college with no outsourcing. They self-studied for APs, had homemade transcripts, and (most importantly to the schools, it seems) had great SAT scores. Ds got accepted into a selective school and into the honors program based on those things - and his AP scores weren't available yet. He did wonderfully and is now in grad school. Dd got into a the selective honors program of a not-so-selective school and is flourishing.

 

It worked for us because:

- I did a lot of research, and worked hard with my two to put together a high school program that was the best fit for them. (you are doing this!)

- My students worked hard, too, and worked with me to figure it all out (your son with do this!)

- I had a lot of help and advice from the WTM boardies (you have this!)

 

I'm excited for you. This could be the best 3 1/2 years of homeschooling yet. Best wishes to you, and :grouphug: .

 

GardenMom

[Teachin'Mine]

Enjoy the rest of your homeschooling journey!

[swimmermom3]

Our school district is the same all or nothing - they will not accept any of my grades but ds could take tests in each subject. If he passes them he will get credit but no GPA. However, we have been unusual in our high school path because of my ds struggle in math which effected his science choices. Here in TX there is no one to report to and our home school is considered an unaccredited private school. We have attended many college fairs and he has participated in programs with no one questioning his grades, transcripts, year in school, etc. except the local school district. I will be teacher, guidance counselor, and principal for my son and issue his report cards, transcript, and diploma with no college or university in the state of TX or the other out of state universities my son wants to attend.

 

Jennifer, you are fortunate that you can test for credit. We don't have that option. Here, if you step outside the system, the student is basically a nonentity. I'll re-register him with the Service District as a home schooler and possibly he may have to take the one standardized test his junior year. That will be it. I don't think we are even considered a unaccredited private school, but will have to check into that.

 

It is this "path of no return" that freaks me out, but not nearly so much now as it did two years ago when I had to look at options for my dd. Now, I know that I can teach high school students and have done so for two years.

 

I can't believe your son is already a junior and that you are teaching your nephew as well. I remember when you were planning for high school. Way to go, Mom.

 

 

 

I did...4 times so far!! Yes, it can be done. Yes, they can go to college ( my oldest 2 both graduated Summa Cum Laude from very good schools....and had received hefty scholarships. We dis not do pretty much anything traditionally. I found if we went into the school and spoke to people....really got a feel, all the ways of admission became very transparent. One step at a time. If you have a willing, hardworking student, the desire to provide an exemplary education, and a smidgen of creativity....the battle is mostly done....the rest is checking out options and checking the boxes

 

Faithe, I could hug you. You make it sound so ...simple. But I know you are right about taking it one step at a time and that first step is making the commitment. With my two older kids, it wasn't worth it to step outside of the system because they had already been in public high school for a couple of years and had accumulated a bunch of credits. DD was 6 credits away from graduating when she came home and my older ds came home his junior year to shore up some skills. He returned to our high school this year and appears to be a much stronger student. What I have learned in teaching them is that I intensely dislike working within someone else's parameters and with someone else's curriculum if it is not up to my standards. :D I will outsource a class if I need to, but no more Connections Academy or Keystone. Ugh!

 

Thanks too for the specifics about what your kids have been able to accomplish. In our house, you're the "other swimmermom," so your words will reassure ds about his ability to get into college.

[JennW in SoCal]

I almost had my youngest going to college up in your neck of the woods, but he decided against Willamette (and instead is going to school with Jane's ds in Ohio). Willamette accepted him and offered a nice scholarship, and he just had mommy transcript that included courses from a public charter/umbrella school, courses from community college and mommy courses. The only standardized test he took was the ACT. All the private LACs we visited in and around Portland were equally welcoming to homeschoolers.

 

My favorite year in high school was 10th grade when it was just the two of us reading, learning biology, and watching Teaching Company courses. He "fired" me the following year for math and science and headed to the community college. The drives home from his CC classes were wonderful too because he just bubbled with excitement about all he was learning. (The morning commute there was usually very, very quiet!)

 

So yes, you can do it too :hurray: :hurray:

[Vida Winter]

You don't really need the official diploma from high school but if you plan on applying to an Oregon public university it would be helpful to have. My oldest is graduating without a diploma (just my homemade transcript) and is going to college out of state so it is not an issue. If you apply in state without a diploma they will want (in addition to SAT or ACT) two subject SAT tests plus some type of proficiency test in a foreign language. One of the SAT 2's can count toward the foreign language requirement if I'm not mistaken. It amounts to a BIG hassle for in state applicants. My kid opted to go to school out of state to avoid having her senior year consumed with test-taking. It is working out fine and she is getting some excellent merit scholarship money.

 

However -- knowing this is the case I am using a charter school for my younger dc. We are still essentially homeschooling but have a teacher visit once per week and a pretty good curriculum budget. There are pros and cons with this situation but we knew our teacher contact before we started and it has worked out for all of us. Some of the pro's are in-home state testing and having the accredited diploma at the end of high school, assuming we stick with the program that long. The way college tuition has headed, an in-state school may be a good option for the other kids and the charter may make it easier.

 

So either way it can work out, but it helps to know what you are getting into.

[Lori D.]

:grouphug:

 

No personal advice -- just encouragement, as I've seen many local homeschoolers and those on these boards do exactly this with great success! I know "Plan B" will succeed wildly, as it is being implemented by the "A Team"! ;)

 

Go Lisa and Sailor Dude! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[swimmermom3]

Nope. No umbrella for us although my son did participate in dual enrollment and did take several AP exams to back up those "mommy grades". There are many of us around with kids doing reasonably well in college or the world, launched by homemade transcripts and a lot of worry. This is a tough decision. In a year, either way, you will wonder "What was I thinking?" Ultimately what you and Swimmerdude need to do is commit to what you believe is the best plan for him--one that you can live with. There are no guarantees to success as we have seen repeatedly. Homeschooling high school requires faith in both your teen and yourself. We're talking a lot of hand wringing. Had my son attended our local public school, I fear that he would have been miserable. So there it is--hand wringing and worry or misery and worry. A mother's burden. (She says with a grin.)

 

:D Jane, this is Swimmerdude we are talking about. I will be wondering "What was I thinking?" two weeks into the venture. No rose-colored glasses here as I am looking at three and a half years with a master negotiator.

 

You are right about the misery. He left the house wearing one very long face. I don't think the social is what he expected it to be. Relationships seem to be set in middle school and don't change much and it can be hard to break into some of those groups. He has a group of friends he eats lunch with, but I don't know how much they have in common.

With ds coming home I am far less concerned with the day-to-day academics than the social. My older kids do not regret their year at home, but they admit to being lonely. Hopefully, if he takes a class or two at the school, continues sailing and swimming, those things will help, but I think we need more. Even the high school swim team has not worked out like I had wished because he is the only freshman male on the Varsity squad and he swims in the fast lane with predominantly seniors.

 

He is in a speech class this semester and I have been encouraging him to explore Debate team as I think he would meet more like minds. We'll see.

 

 

((((Reassuring hugs)))). Yes, we have had our kids accepted into college with no oversighting high school and my simple homemade transcript. Our oldest ds and dd were both accepted w/o any problems. Now,both of them did have dual enrollment credit, but in the case of our oldest he had homeschooled friends accepted to the same school w/o any. With my kids, we don't do dual enrollment b/c I think they need to for college acceptance. We only do dual enrollment for strictly individual educational needs that are beyond my abilities. Our experience in applying to non-top schools has been our homeschool diploma has been a non-issue. But, these have been state universities or small private avg colleges.

 

Hey, I have missed seeing you on here. :grouphug: I really don't know what type of college he'll look at. He surprised me by saying that he might like to stay in town which would work for a business major. Somehow I can picture him at the small, eclectic college where discussion is a major part of the education. I doubt he would live at home as he will probably figure out how to finance some dive of a houseboat and then charge a roommate an exorbitant amount of rent for the pleasure of sharing the experience. It is very good to know that the homeschool diploma has been a non-issue.

 

*grumble*grumble* insomnia. No, we don't do an umbrella. Our state is easy to homeschool in, our state schools (which is where ds is currently considering) are used to homeschoolers. Plus I don't have to worry about any nagging requirements some umbrella schools might have.

 

With the older kids I thought an umbrella might be an option, but the longer I homeschool, the less open I am to dancing to anyone else's tune. And I have no idea where my son gets his contrary nature from. It must be his father's fault.

 

 

No honors sections available? He could switch into an honors section after 2nd qtr if you back up his request and get the admin to take it seriously.

 

"Honors" is a bit of a joke here. So if my son wanted to get an "Honors" designation on his geometry course, he would attend a session during his study hall where he would be assigned some additional work. DD did it for Global Lit and Comp her freshman year and considered it a waste of time. It tends to add more busy work rather than depth.

[JennW in SoCal]

Lisa -- I'm confused. You wrote earlier that Oregon is an "all or nothing" state when it comes to homeschooling high school, yet you talk about him still taking some classes at school. Is it possible to be in some classes at the ps?? Or clubs? That may help ease the loneliness/social aspects of homeschool life. I can't imagine splitting time between home and campus on a daily basis, though. For us it would have meant never getting into the homeschool work as the transition time would eat into anything deep and meaningful. You might be able to negotiate it with Swimmerdude.

 

My ds spent time interning with an adult mentor, doing electrical engineering work, and by senior year had a part time job where he was the only minor on the staff. He really preferred the society of adults to teen peers, so these outside activities and community college classes were plenty for his social fix.

[swimmermom3]

Lisa -- I'm confused. You wrote earlier that Oregon is an "all or nothing" state when it comes to homeschooling high school, yet you talk about him still taking some classes at school. Is it possible to be in some classes at the ps?? Or clubs? That may help ease the loneliness/social aspects of homeschool life. I can't imagine splitting time between home and campus on a daily basis, though. For us it would have meant never getting into the homeschool work as the transition time would eat into anything deep and meaningful. You might be able to negotiate it with Swimmerdude.

 

My ds spent time interning with an adult mentor, doing electrical engineering work, and by senior year had a part time job where he was the only minor on the staff. He really preferred the society of adults to teen peers, so these outside activities and community college classes were plenty for his social fix.

 

Sorry for the confusion. He can take classes at school and get credit for them even if he is not enrolled full time. But let's say he decides to go back to public school for his junior year. They would not accept my Lit & Comp 10 course and would place him in Lit & Comp 10 even though he was a junior and had done the work at home. You really can't go back unless all of the courses you have done at home have been through accredited programs.

 

If he decides to pull out at the end of this semester instead of the year, we will have the the problem of that transition time. The high school is just down the road, so that is not an issue, but if he finished out Spanish 1, Geometry, and STEM Physics, his days would have weird gaps in them. I could survive it for one semester, but can't see doing it the rest of the time. It may be possible to schedule math and science back-to-back next year. It is still weird because they are on a block schedule so that means alternating days.

 

He can swim on the high school team as long as he is homeschooled or at the school part time. My oldest son could not do so last year because Oregon's virtual school goes through a different district than the one we live in and it is all about who has the $$$.

[jibaker103]

Jennifer, you are fortunate that you can test for credit. We don't have that option. Here, if you step outside the system, the student is basically a nonentity. I'll re-register him with the Service District as a home schooler and possibly he may have to take the one standardized test his junior year. That will be it. I don't think we are even considered a unaccredited private school, but will have to check into that.

 

It is this "path of no return" that freaks me out, but not nearly so much now as it did two years ago when I had to look at options for my dd. Now, I know that I can teach high school students and have done so for two years.

 

I can't believe your son is already a junior and that you are teaching your nephew as well. I remember when you were planning for high school. Way to go, Mom.

 

Although we have it available there is still some type of hitch to make it not worthwhile, at all (can't remember what it is at the moment)! Thank goodness ds has recognized this and has dropped the "I want to go to school to be with my friends" mantra he had at the beginning of 10th and a couple of weeks ago. It only happens when he talks to a certain friend about something "cool" that happened and he "missed out".

 

I was freaked out at first but I got some wise advice from someone on this board. She said that there is no point in worrying about something that has not happened yet. Take this journey one step at a time and no matter where ds ends up it will be based on my care and good intentions and ds effort and abilities. Everything else will fall into place!!! I cannot tell you how freeing this advice is. I have stopped all of the worrying. I assess where ds is and plan for the next step. He is working to the best of his ability and we are both happy.

 

Time sure does fly when you are having fun!!! I am now taking the same advice and applying it to my nephew for as long as he is with me. You can do this!!!

[Colleen in NS]

Lisa, I'm excited for you guys, and I have NO DOUBT that you will do a great job!!!!!!

 

I've been able to meet (finally!) more local homeschoolers, in the past couple of years, who have taken their kids through high school. Many of those kids were very able to get into university around here, with no high school diploma (NS won't issue one to homeschoolers). It is just not an issue at all anymore here. And, I keep hearing stories about these kids getting lots of scholarships.

 

(Way off topic...JennW in SoCal, Natalie MacMaster is homeschooling her five kids while maintaining her fiddling career! http://www.nataliemacmaster.com/news.htm )

[ondreeuh]

 

 

Oregon is an "all or nothing state" when it comes to homeschooling high school. I refuse to pay for the same substandard outsourced classes I used for ds's older siblings the years they came home just so we can have the credit.

 

 

Are you sure? 3 years ago my daughter was able to take a couple classes each term at the middle school without enrolling. I think their maximum was 2 or 3. It is up to the policy of your district - which means if they don't allow it, you can push for them to change their rules.

[swimmermom3]

Lisa, My ds went back to public school in 9th grade then came home in the middle of 10th until graduation. He took science and foreign language at the community college, but we did everything else at home. I continued courses with the same names for the year I took him out part way so that the transcript would be easier and included the transcript from the school as part of our official transcripts. Although I might have been able to get him back in school, I considered the move back to homeschool a one-way move. It really was one of the best decisions ever made for him academically. We didn't make the choice lightly, but we stuck with it once we did. One of the things he loved about his CC classes was that the kids wanted to be there. He said that the highly rated public school seemed a lot more like day care than education to him. We know lots of kids that succeeded after graduting from that high school, but it was the wrong environment for him. I am probably different than a lot of homeschoolers because I don't really support homeschooling. I support making the best decision you can for each child at the time. If you need somebody to tell you it can work - there are a lot of us who have kids who have succeeded this way. You'll be fine and so will he.

 

One of the reason I think my son looked forward to going to school was the opportunity for discussions. A while back, we attended a WTM gathering at Nicole M's with both her guys and I think Natalieclare's older daughter. The four of them discussed economics and politics among other things and my son inhaled the opportunity. He can only get that in a limited fashion at home, but he has found that at school, the kids don't care enough to do the work so it is hard to have any meaningful exchange of ideas in the classroom. Well, he also says he's tired of being with guys who are running around with rulers at crotch level and snickering.

 

Thank you for reassuring me that it can work. I know this on an intellectual basis and from having been on the board for a bit, but I have taken so many turns off the traditional path the last few years, that I get a bit unnerved. I shouldn't, but sometimes I do get tired of attitudes around me IRL and I start to question my, er, sanity?

 

We are doing it, but my oldest is a sophmore so I have no future to offer except mine. I have friends who did nothing outsourced and had a son get into a top school (top 30). He did score well on his SAT, but I don't think they did APs or anything. I would suggest that if you can afford it, you look at some of the good online course out there. We are doing Lukeion's Latin this year and I think that is a good additon and next year I'm thinking I'll add either a writing course or math, gasp, maybe both. I am also blessed to be in a city with 5 universities and colleges (2 state universities and 3 LACs) I am hopeful that for math, the last year (he'll do Calculus next year) I'll be able to get one of the private LACs to let him take the class there. I am also considering having him take some of the AP history tests even though we don't exactly line up with their plan (meaning he'll have covered more history but over a longer time period). This is his strongest interest area so this makes sense.

 

What would be the advantage to taking an AP history course? Do many schools offer credit for them or is it in part, to show that your student can do college-level work? Both of my older kids have taken AP European History and no one has tested or will test. The teacher is amazing and my kids love the class material.

[readwithem]

 

 

My favorite year in high school was 10th grade when it was just the two of us reading, learning biology, and watching Teaching Company courses.

 

 

:iagree: I loved those days as well. My dd and i still have "read to ourselves" time when she's home, and our Skype/email often involve "discussing" what each of us is currently reading...

[Jane in NC]

One of the reason I think my son looked forward to going to school was the opportunity for discussions. A while back, we attended a WTM gathering at Nicole M's with both her guys and I think Natalieclare's older daughter. The four of them discussed economics and politics among other things and my son inhaled the opportunity. He can only get that in a limited fashion at home, but he has found that at school, the kids don't care enough to do the work so it is hard to have any meaningful exchange of ideas in the classroom. Well, he also says he's tired of being with guys who are running around with rulers at crotch level and snickering.

So why not use Skype for discussions? There are other Well Trained Kids who may welcome the opportunity to chat?

[Jane in NC]

(Way off topic...JennW in SoCal, Natalie MacMaster is homeschooling her five kids while maintaining her fiddling career! http://www.nataliema...er.com/news.htm )

Way, way off topic: Natalie MacMaster is married to a member of the Leahy clan. We took The Boy to see Leahy when he was maybe eight. After one number he fell asleep--even sleeping through the step dancing!!

[swimmermom3]

Way, way off topic: Natalie MacMaster is married to a member of the Leahy clan. We took The Boy to see Leahy when he was maybe eight. After one number he fell asleep--even sleeping through the step dancing!!

 

 

That gorgeous woman homeschools five kids while maintaining a career in entertainment?

 

I don't think we will discuss what I have not accomplished today.

[Colleen in NS]

Way, way off topic: Natalie MacMaster is married to a member of the Leahy clan. We took The Boy to see Leahy when he was maybe eight. After one number he fell asleep--even sleeping through the step dancing!!

 

I stood in an airport line a few years ago, admiring a woman's babies in a stroller. I looked up to remark to the Mom how cute her babies were, when I recognized her (and him) as Natalie and her dh. My dh-the-musician recognized the dh first, lol. Very cool that you got to see Leahy perform!

 

That gorgeous woman homeschools five kids while maintaining a career in entertainment?

 

I don't think we will discuss what I have not accomplished today.

 

Lisa!!!! Go easy on yourself. That gorgeous woman has a road crew and probably other types of support (although, she did mention being up in the middle of the night; tending non-sleepers, cleaning, and cooking!!). Also, her oldest child is just seven years old. :D

[Nan in Mass]

Lisa - I just found your post. I did see it, but I looked at it via the hover preview feature and got unlucky - it looked like a discussion of honours classes at your son's high school, not something I know anything about, so I didn't investigate further until I began wondering what that had to do with your plan B. I still miss the hybrid feature. (I am going to ask about it again but I don't want to bother the moderators until they've had a chance to deal with some of the more pressing issues.)

 

You knew this was likely to happen. That is why you had a plan B, remember? Homeschooling is like the beanbag chair my sister and her husband ordered online for their daughter for Christmas. The chair came in a little box, one way too small to be a beanbag chair, with directions to take it out and wait a few days before using. It expanded and expanded and expanded and expanded... Finally, it expanded so much that it wasn't really a beanbag chair as we know them but more like a giant excersize ball. The box is school. The bag is homeschooling. Your son will push against the flexible covering but it isn't at all the same as that tiny little box. It think the key to making this work is getting your son to agree to let you teach him. Get him to agree now, before he leaves school, and discuss what "teach" means. It means he can ask and negotiate, but YOU have the final say, and he has to stop negotiating when you tell him enough is enough. Explain that he is being let out of the box into the bag, not being allowed to scatter his little beans to the wind (to eventually land all over the harbour lol). That agreement will save you much grief. If he is like mine, he thinks he would be better off teaching himself but he is too short-sighted and doesn't quite have enough self-discipline to manage this.

 

His description of high school is very funny and sadly accurate. I think a few more friends would solve his problem. Debate team is a good idea, but there are other sources, too, like some of the gaming clubs. He might not like the actual activity, but if he could identify which teens are participating, he might be able to find other ways to befriend them. "Social" is rather a big word, as big as the student population. He doesn't need anything that big. He just needs a few intellectual friends for when he is feeling like being intellectual. It might be worth checking to make sure he understands that probably no one person or group will be able to meet all his needs, that he can enjoy different groups for different reasons. He probably knows that but putting it into words might be helpful. It will make it seem less like all his needs aren't being met just because one need isn't being met.

 

He also needs challenging non-family teachers/mentors. It is part of growing up, not a failure on your part. That means outsourcing some things, probably. If he can pick and choose his teachers at public school, he might be able to find intellectual mentors there. Again, pointing out that he might not, as a homeschooler, b be able to get the intellectual mentor and the intellectual friends in the same space at the same time might help him to be realistic about the possibilities of homeschooling.

 

The other thing you probably need to discuss right now is what it will take to get into the sort of college he might like to go to. He has three choices - try to do the scary list of APs, etc., that will make him ivy league competative, try to do most of the scary list and accomplish something that will astound ivy league admissions departments, or limit his choices now. Limiting his choices now is obviously the more practical route, but he needs to know that he is doing that so he can't blame you later. If he wants to go the second route, he might want to read Cal Newport's book. The title is something like How to Be a High School Superstar. I am currently hiding in a squirrel nest at the top of the tallest tree around while I wait to see how much we limited our youngest's college choices by choosing to focus on our own family's educational goals rather than jump through the conventional hoops. One of our goals was for him to aquire enough academic skills to be able to survive college, obviously, so I'm not all that worried about that extremely important piece. I'm waiting to see if college admissions departments recognize that from the material with which we have provided them. We'll see. I'll let you know in a few more weeks how it turned out.

 

If you are worried about homeschoolers getting into college, go over to the college board and read the 2012 and the 2011 college acceptance threads. A search for the year will probably turn it up. The current 2013 one is there, too, and some people have posted acceptances already.

 

The flagship state uni's might actually turn out to be something that you have eliminated by homeschooling. I always told mine that. (Ours is one place we are waiting to hear from now.) The flagships are so overwhelmed with applications that they may not bother with any non-conventional applicants. Private schools may have the time to read course descriptions and figure out what sort of education your son has.

 

Unfortunately, standardized testing is important if you are a homeschooler. Even schools that are test-optional want them from homeschoolers. It would probably be wise to make sure he does ok on the ACT or SAT and has either SAT2s or APs or outside grades for each important subject. Colleges want some way to compare your son to their other applicants. SAT2s allow them to do that. We opted not to do any testing except the SAT (and the DELF French test for his work resume but colleges won't see that) and are hoping that community college classes will substitute for APs and SAT2s but I don't know yet whether that is a viable strategy. If he gets into the state uni, that will be why.

 

You expanded your son. It is no surprise that he didn't fit into the little high school box. You are too expanded to fit into Keystone or something like that, too, lol. But remember there are other options if all else fails. The possibilities are endless. For one of the wilder ones, you can read The New Global Student. And remember, you aren't alone. You are part of the hive. You will feel the pressure to take AP tests but you will also be encouraged to go places you wouldn't have thought of on your own, and you will always have someone to talk you down out of the trees.

 

Lots of hugs,

Nan

[lisabees]

HUGS Lisa. You know I have been there. Once they homeschool, they know the alternative. That is hard to shake from a kid. Especially a curious, interested kid.

 

Because I have BTDT with a junior in high school (who returned to ps the following year), I have some thoughts.

 

Nan, of course, has saved me time by making many of the same points that I would. Thanks, Nan! ;)

 

If he is like mine, he thinks he would be better off teaching himself but he is too short-sighted and doesn't quite have enough self-discipline to manage this.

 

This. My oldest believed this and it is why he came home. By the end of the year, he realized it was kinda boring going through textbooks by himself. He also didn't have the organizational skills to do it. Because he knew homeschooling was an alternative, he was originally arrogant and blind to the situation. It really wasn't as rewarding as he thought.

 

 

 

His description of high school is very funny and sadly accurate. I think a few more friends would solve his problem. Debate team is a good idea, but there are other sources, too, like some of the gaming clubs. He might not like the actual activity, but if he could identify which teens are participating, he might be able to find other ways to befriend them. "Social" is rather a big word, as big as the student population. He doesn't need anything that big. He just needs a few intellectual friends for when he is feeling like being intellectual. It might be worth checking to make sure he understands that probably no one person or group will be able to meet all his needs, that he can enjoy different groups for different reasons. He probably knows that but putting it into words might be helpful. It will make it seem less like all his needs aren't being met just because one need isn't being met.

 

He also needs challenging non-family teachers/mentors. It is part of growing up, not a failure on your part. That means outsourcing some things, probably. If he can pick and choose his teachers at public school, he might be able to find intellectual mentors there. Again, pointing out that he might not, as a homeschooler, b be able to get the intellectual mentor and the intellectual friends in the same space at the same time might help him to be realistic about the possibilities of homeschooling.

 

And this! The above is HUGE. Swimmerdude is still young. He needs to find his group. Being home alone may not help him find it. It's easy for a 14 year old to say, "I know, Mom." But, as we know, they are so short-sighted and hopeful and confident, they don't really know. DS went back to ps during his senior year a different child. It was important for him to be homeschooled. It humbled him. It made him appreciate what ps has to offer. It made him confident enough to shout out, "Here I am! I might be a bit strange here, but I like intellectual conversations. I want to change the world." Because of this newfound attitude, he was proactive in seeking like-minded souls. This included students and teachers. His second home became the gifted teacher's classroom. Gifted or not, that is one place where those interesting and interested kids flock.

 

 

The other thing you probably need to discuss right now is what it will take to get into the sort of college he might like to go to. He has three choices - try to do the scary list of APs, etc., that will make him ivy league competative, try to do most of the scary list and accomplish something that will astound ivy league admissions departments, or limit his choices now. Limiting his choices now is obviously the more practical route, but he needs to know that he is doing that so he can't blame you later. If he wants to go the second route, he might want to read Cal Newport's book. The title is something like How to Be a High School Superstar. I am currently hiding in a squirrel nest at the top of the tallest tree around while I wait to see how much we limited our youngest's college choices by choosing to focus on our own family's educational goals rather than jump through the conventional hoops. One of our goals was for him to aquire enough academic skills to be able to survive college, obviously, so I'm not all that worried about that extremely important piece. I'm waiting to see if college admissions departments recognize that from the material with which we have provided them. We'll see. I'll let you know in a few more weeks how it turned out.

 

Now - we knew ds wanted a fairly competitive liberal arts college. We went down the AP route. At our ps, APs aren't allowed until 11th grade. DS "only" took four - two while he homeschooled and two at ps. Finally, while taking APs in ps, ds found the classes he wanted. He found those conversations he craved. He found those like-minded souls. He was shocked to discover that other kids were so passionate in ps (silly, huh?). He stopped being arrogant; he opened up his eyes to so many rich possibilities and rewarding friendships.

 

If you are worried about homeschoolers getting into college, go over to the college board and read the 2012 and the 2011 college acceptance threads. A search for the year will probably turn it up. The current 2013 one is there, too, and some people have posted acceptances already.

 

It's always an exciting thread! So many wonderful acceptances. So many wonderful colleges. The Hive even has Stanford and Cornell acceptances this year. Likely, it is because of the opportunities that homeschooling provided.

 

 

 

The flagship state uni's might actually turn out to be something that you have eliminated by homeschooling. I always told mine that. (Ours is one place we are waiting to hear from now.) The flagships are so overwhelmed with applications that they may not bother with any non-conventional applicants. Private schools may have the time to read course descriptions and figure out what sort of education your son has.

 

Unfortunately, standardized testing is important if you are a homeschooler. Even schools that are test-optional want them from homeschoolers. It would probably be wise to make sure he does ok on the ACT or SAT and has either SAT2s or APs or outside grades for each important subject. Colleges want some way to compare your son to their other applicants. SAT2s allow them to do that. We opted not to do any testing except the SAT (and the DELF French test for his work resume but colleges won't see that) and are hoping that community college classes will substitute for APs and SAT2s but I don't know yet whether that is a viable strategy. If he gets into the state uni, that will be why.

 

 

I don't believe it is difficult for homeschoolers to get into most colleges, as long as you jump through a certain amount of hoops. If Swimmerdude isn't going to take APs, at least have him take SAT Subject tests. But, you know, it all depends what his goals are. As a homeschooler, you can follow his lead. Take the rabbit trails. Sail around the world. But, it's important to be prepared if he changes direction at the last minute. If he is specific about what kind of high school environment he wants, he will likely be specific about his college one! ;)

 

 

You expanded your son. It is no surprise that he didn't fit into the little high school box. You are too expanded to fit into Keystone or something like that, too, lol. But remember there are other options if all else fails. The possibilities are endless. For one of the wilder ones, you can read The New Global Student. And remember, you aren't alone. You are part of the hive. You will feel the pressure to take AP tests but you will also be encouraged to go places you wouldn't have thought of on your own, and you will always have someone to talk you down out of the trees.

 

Lots of hugs,

Nan

 

Lisa - I am not trying to dissuade you; I just wanted to share my experience. My son and his experiences may not relate to yours at all. And you know that I would like nothing more than to see more of you here!!

 

You and Nan and so many others have guided me along this journey (a big shout out to all of you). And, yes, I believe you and Nan asked me to pause before bringing home my high schooler. But I knew he would be welcomed back, with all of his courses accepted.

 

I do think you are very lucky to have a part-time solution. It could be the best of both worlds. So many women here homeschool their high schoolers with fantastic results. I just think that with our kids - who have experienced both ps and homeschooling - it can be a bit more difficult.

 

Either way, I will be excited for you and Swimmerdude (Sailordude)!

[cheryl h]

 

 

Are you sure? 3 years ago my daughter was able to take a couple classes each term at the middle school without enrolling. I think their maximum was 2 or 3. It is up to the policy of your district - which means if they don't allow it, you can push for them to change their rules.

 

 

Yes, it is true. If you chose to hs fresh, soph, and junior years...going back to ps your senior year...they would enroll you as a freshman, period. If you went part-time, you only get credit for what you do in the public system. What you do for middle school doesn't matter, as those credits do not count on a high school transcript.

 

It is this exact scenario that has me awake at night. Our plans of enrolling dd14 in the dual enrollment program at age 16 might have to change if changes are made to those programs. This scares me to death. All our eggs are in that basket. We have chosen CC for her in the mean time for social and academic support, but we never would have chosen it for all 4 years of high school. We are only half way into her fresh year and I am terrified of having to hs all four years instead of the first two. Deep breaths, deeeeeep breaths.

[Matryoshka]

You are right about the misery. He left the house wearing one very long face. I don't think the social is what he expected it to be. Relationships seem to be set in middle school and don't change much and it can be hard to break into some of those groups. He has a group of friends he eats lunch with, but I don't know how much they have in common.

 

It does take time to make friends rather than just acquaintances. My dds have actually been a bit spoiled by having such long-term homeschooling friends. But dd1 seems to be accumulating a large group of acquaintances, and I think that by the end of the year, some of them will be on their way to being friends. Being in orchestra has helped her, I think. Dd2 is the introvert, so it's harder, but she also doesn't care as much about social stuff.

 

But they still say they have much more interesting, rich conversations with their homeschool friends. I've made a big effort to make sure they get together with them regularly. Does your ds have any friends from homeschooling, and does he still see them?

 

 

With ds coming home I am far less concerned with the day-to-day academics than the social. My older kids do not regret their year at home, but they admit to being lonely. Hopefully, if he takes a class or two at the school, continues sailing and swimming, those things will help, but I think we need more. Even the high school swim team has not worked out like I had wished because he is the only freshman male on the Varsity squad and he swims in the fast lane with predominantly seniors.

 

He is in a speech class this semester and I have been encouraging him to explore Debate team as I think he would meet more like minds. We'll see.

 

If he comes home, he can still do swim team and Debate team? The latter would be a good place to meet like-minded kids, I would think.

 

"Honors" is a bit of a joke here. So if my son wanted to get an "Honors" designation on his geometry course, he would attend a session during his study hall where he would be assigned some additional work. DD did it for Global Lit and Comp her freshman year and considered it a waste of time. It tends to add more busy work rather than depth.

 

 

This is stunningly horrible. That sounds more like how "accelerated" works in the elementary/middle grades here. Extra random busywork, but no actual added depth or speed.

 

The only reason I even considered high school here is because the honors/AP classes are good, and full of good students. The peer environment of hard-working students was one thing I wanted them to encounter. The honors classes are around 50% Asians (Chinese and Indian) with Tiger Moms, who freak out if they get less than 95% on anything. If anything my kids feel like they have to hustle to keep up. My more competitive dd says she wants to "overachieve the overachievers." Sometimes they complain that they're in so many honors classes, and they're so much extra work, but every now and then they get a glimpse of what (and who) is in the regular classes, and then they see why they really should be there, even if they're making some B's. An acquaintance of my dd's just left to homeschool; she was in regular classes. When I asked her mom why, she said that her dd said the kids didn't care and gossiped and were rude. It's like a whole different experience.

 

I've said to them many times that if they weren't in honors classes, they'd be home, as I can certainly do better than the "regular" classes at the high school.

 

Mine still have made noises about coming home from time to time. I've told them it's not completely out of the question, but point out that they are working much harder (with no nagging from me!!! wow!) for their teachers at school than they did for me. If that weren't true, I'd definitely be looking much differently at things.

 

If you don't have good classes and a positive peer environment at the high school, I'm very sure you can do better at home. I've always been very impressed with all the things you've done with your kids.

[Karen in CO]

I thought of this thread this morning while drinking my coffee. Someone had mentioned that the state flgaship universities were probably off the table once you step out of the mainstream, but that wasn't our experience. My ds appled to and was accepted at both of the Colorado large univerisites as well as being accepted into the University of Oregon and FSU (don't ask about how he choose colleges, :001_rolleyes: ). He needed two SAT subject tests as a homeschooler, but he was accepted at all the places his friend from ps with similar SAT scores plus AP classes was accepted.

[Nan in Mass]

I thought of this thread this morning while drinking my coffee. Someone had mentioned that the state flgaship universities were probably off the table once you step out of the mainstream, but that wasn't our experience. My ds appled to and was accepted at both of the Colorado large univerisites as well as being accepted into the University of Oregon and FSU (don't ask about how he choose colleges, :001_rolleyes: ). He needed two SAT subject tests as a homeschooler, but he was accepted at all the places his friend from ps with similar SAT scores plus AP classes was accepted.

 

 

I do know homeschoolers who were accepted to flagships, including UMass (the one I thought might be hard), now. At the time I was making the decision whether or not to homeschool high school the first time round (or rather, the second - the first we sent to ps), that wasn't the case. Now UMass has information on their website about how to apply as a homeschooler. I just know that we are out-of-the-box even for homeschoolers AND we didn't do SAT2 or AP testing (although we did cc classes) and as a result, in order to see what we did do, admissions needs to take more time, time UMass admissions might not have. My son's SAT scores are in UMass's top 25%, so that may be enough to make them take that time, but I didn't know that would be the case when we made the decision. I think it might be different if those all-important-seeming SAT scores were somewhere in the bottom 60%. But you are right - things are much better now than they were and other than thinking about taking SAT2s, probably admission to state flagships shouldn't be something that homeschoolers have to worry about any more. I just think that it is good to be aware of how important (at the moment, anyway) standardized testing appears to be for homeschoolers for college admissions. It is a hard pill to swallow, but even the test-optional colleges we spoke to wanted SAT/ACTs from homeschoolers. We were pleasantly surpirsed that the ones my son applied to did not require SAT2s, even from homeschoolers. Some do; just not the ones he applied to. Whether he gets in without them remains to be seen. Nobody has answered yet. Required-to-apply and need-in-order-to-be-competative are two different things. Colleges only post the first on their websites, not the second. It would be very nice indeed if one could find information on the second. Too bad we can't buy a book containing all the experience of a high school guidance counselor in nice condensed form lol.

 

Nan

 

ETA - I feel like most of this post is more babbling than well organized post. I am definately at the babbling point when it comes to college apps. Sigh.

[Karen in CO]

Excellent points (even babbled), Nan. My ds's applications were very mainstream including standardized tests. I was terrified that I had ruined his chances of college so I aimed as much as possible for a standard format for our applications. I had started looking at the state requirements for homeschoolers as soon as I pulled him from school the second and final time. His courses were not typical, and although he meet all the minimum qualifications for maths and sciences, he was heavy on art and languages.

[Nan in Mass]

My youngest applied with no SATs, no APs, no grades except for cc classes, some odd things like most of his history being a French middle school history program (doesn't sound rigorous but definately the US high school non-honours equivalent plus being from a French perspective and mostly primary sources), integrated math (doesn't sound rigorous but was - NEM) his science (except for this year) being two years of natural history (doesn't sound rigorous but was good for building experimenting skills) and a year of intro chem at the cc (also doesn't sound rigorous but actually was because of our particular cc). I made his transcript look as normal as possible while still retaining descriptive course names, but... we'll just have to see what happens. UMass asked for a graded transcript or a narrative. I was afraid to just sent cc grades with p/f for everything else, so I sent the narrative I had written for a different college. It was not a short document. We'll see. I did make sure he had outside grades for math, science, and English before he applied to the one he applied to early action, and the rest will have grades for calc 1 and bio, chem, and physics (he's applying to engineering schools). His SATs are ok. Math low-ish for engineering school. As he put it, when you derive all your formulas as you need them, your SAT score is not going to be high. So you can see why I am a being cautious about whether this is going to work or not. I think it is very common for homeschoolers to be misled by the college admissions websites. They appear to be asking for unusualness but what they really want is stellar statistics demonstrating academic skills PLUS unusualness. I think homeschoolers sometimes think they can SUBSTITUTE unusualness for statistics demonstrating academic skills, especially since we all know by now that those statistics are not necessarily the proof that the admissions people are hoping they are. I certainly started out with this idea. Fortunately, very early on in the first homeschooler's high school education, I went and talked to a few alternative-type colleges and discovered that I was wrong. Anyway, more babbling to explain why I sound so cautious. I'd post a straight-up warning not to make this assumption except that I don't have enough experience to be sure this is always true, for everyone. That and I'm generally for flexing the system as much as possible lol.

 

Nan

[JennW in SoCal]

I think it is very common for homeschoolers to be misled by the college admissions websites. They appear to be asking for unusualness but what they really want is stellar statistics demonstrating academic skills PLUS unusualness. I think homeschoolers sometimes think they can SUBSTITUTE unusualness for statistics demonstrating academic skills, especially since we all know by now that those statistics are not necessarily the proof that the admissions people are hoping they are. I certainly started out with this idea.

 

 

Bravo, Nan! This is the perfect summation of what admissions offices want. You just go on babbling cause there is wisdom in all those words!

 

During my season as the family college counselor it sometimes seemed that admissions people actually wanted USUALness along with the stellar statistics, and only once those boxes were met they'd consider the UNusual. Fortunately it was only a few schools that seemed to work this way, otherwise my ds would still be in community college.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I have not done homeschooling in high school, and my ds is currently in a rigorous school. However, I often think of it for him. This article on MOOC is intriguing and may be useful for high school homeschoolers:

http://www.the-ameri....cfm?piece=1352

[Kareni]

Wishing you and Sailor Dude well in these (somewhat) new and exciting waters ....

 

Regards,

Kareni

[swimmermom3]

I almost had my youngest going to college up in your neck of the woods, but he decided against Willamette (and instead is going to school with Jane's ds in Ohio). Willamette accepted him and offered a nice scholarship, and he just had mommy transcript that included courses from a public charter/umbrella school, courses from community college and mommy courses. The only standardized test he took was the ACT. All the private LACs we visited in and around Portland were equally welcoming to homeschoolers. My favorite year in high school was 10th grade when it was just the two of us reading, learning biology, and watching Teaching Company courses. He "fired" me the following year for math and science and headed to the community college. The drives home from his CC classes were wonderful too because he just bubbled with excitement about all he was learning. (The morning commute there was usually very, very quiet!) So yes, you can do it too :hurray: :hurray:

 

Jenn, thanks so much for your words of encouragement. I have spent the last week researching all of our options. Part of that process was to look at and print off home school requirements for various colleges, private and public in our state. There didn't really seem to be anything we could not handle. My one concern would be what I highlighted in Vida Winter's post below. I am naive enough about the standard tests like the SAT, ACT, and SAT 2s to not be sure how much extra study time would be required. Swimmer Dude has always taken yearly state tests(OAKS) and the CAT when required by state. The last time he had instructions on how to test was in third grade while still in school. I guess I have always believed that if I teach his subjects to the highest level that is appropriate for him, we'll be okay. It's always worked. :tongue_smilie: I think I did take brief "how to study for..." classes for the SAT and the GMAT, but they didn't involve a lot of time.

 

Will I need to take a ton of time out for the testing?

 

You don't really need the official diploma from high school but if you plan on applying to an Oregon public university it would be helpful to have. My oldest is graduating without a diploma (just my homemade transcript) and is going to college out of state so it is not an issue. If you apply in state without a diploma they will want (in addition to SAT or ACT) two subject SAT tests plus some type of proficiency test in a foreign language. One of the SAT 2's can count toward the foreign language requirement if I'm not mistaken. It amounts to a BIG hassle for in state applicants. My kid opted to go to school out of state to avoid having her senior year consumed with test-taking. It is working out fine and she is getting some excellent merit scholarship money. However -- knowing this is the case I am using a charter school for my younger dc. We are still essentially homeschooling but have a teacher visit once per week and a pretty good curriculum budget. There are pros and cons with this situation but we knew our teacher contact before we started and it has worked out for all of us. Some of the pro's are in-home state testing and having the accredited diploma at the end of high school, assuming we stick with the program that long. The way college tuition has headed, an in-state school may be a good option for the other kids and the charter may make it easier. So either way it can work out, but it helps to know what you are getting into.

 

:grouphug: No personal advice -- just encouragement, as I've seen many local homeschoolers and those on these boards do exactly this with great success! I know "Plan B" will succeed wildly, as it is being implemented by the "A Team"! ;) Go Lisa and Sailor Dude! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

Lori, :grouphug: . You know what one of the best perks of this new school arrangement is? I finally get to play with all of yours and Eliana's lit suggestions for high school and I can't wait.

[swimmermom3]

Lisa - I just found your post. I did see it, but I looked at it via the hover preview feature and got unlucky - it looked like a discussion of honours classes at your son's high school, not something I know anything about, so I didn't investigate further until I began wondering what that had to do with your plan B. I still miss the hybrid feature. (I am going to ask about it again but I don't want to bother the moderators until they've had a chance to deal with some of the more pressing issues.)

 

You knew this was likely to happen. That is why you had a plan B, remember? Homeschooling is like the beanbag chair my sister and her husband ordered online for their daughter for Christmas. The chair came in a little box, one way too small to be a beanbag chair, with directions to take it out and wait a few days before using. It expanded and expanded and expanded and expanded... Finally, it expanded so much that it wasn't really a beanbag chair as we know them but more like a giant excersize ball. The box is school. The bag is homeschooling. Your son will push against the flexible covering but it isn't at all the same as that tiny little box. It think the key to making this work is getting your son to agree to let you teach him. Get him to agree now, before he leaves school, and discuss what "teach" means. It means he can ask and negotiate, but YOU have the final say, and he has to stop negotiating when you tell him enough is enough. Explain that he is being let out of the box into the bag, not being allowed to scatter his little beans to the wind (to eventually land all over the harbour lol). That agreement will save you much grief. If he is like mine, he thinks he would be better off teaching himself but he is too short-sighted and doesn't quite have enough self-discipline to manage this.

 

His description of high school is very funny and sadly accurate. I think a few more friends would solve his problem. Debate team is a good idea, but there are other sources, too, like some of the gaming clubs. He might not like the actual activity, but if he could identify which teens are participating, he might be able to find other ways to befriend them. "Social" is rather a big word, as big as the student population. He doesn't need anything that big. He just needs a few intellectual friends for when he is feeling like being intellectual. It might be worth checking to make sure he understands that probably no one person or group will be able to meet all his needs, that he can enjoy different groups for different reasons. He probably knows that but putting it into words might be helpful. It will make it seem less like all his needs aren't being met just because one need isn't being met.

 

He also needs challenging non-family teachers/mentors. It is part of growing up, not a failure on your part. That means outsourcing some things, probably. If he can pick and choose his teachers at public school, he might be able to find intellectual mentors there. Again, pointing out that he might not, as a homeschooler, b be able to get the intellectual mentor and the intellectual friends in the same space at the same time might help him to be realistic about the possibilities of homeschooling.

 

The other thing you probably need to discuss right now is what it will take to get into the sort of college he might like to go to. He has three choices - try to do the scary list of APs, etc., that will make him ivy league competative, try to do most of the scary list and accomplish something that will astound ivy league admissions departments, or limit his choices now. Limiting his choices now is obviously the more practical route, but he needs to know that he is doing that so he can't blame you later. If he wants to go the second route, he might want to read Cal Newport's book. The title is something like How to Be a High School Superstar. I am currently hiding in a squirrel nest at the top of the tallest tree around while I wait to see how much we limited our youngest's college choices by choosing to focus on our own family's educational goals rather than jump through the conventional hoops. One of our goals was for him to aquire enough academic skills to be able to survive college, obviously, so I'm not all that worried about that extremely important piece. I'm waiting to see if college admissions departments recognize that from the material with which we have provided them. We'll see. I'll let you know in a few more weeks how it turned out.

 

If you are worried about homeschoolers getting into college, go over to the college board and read the 2012 and the 2011 college acceptance threads. A search for the year will probably turn it up. The current 2013 one is there, too, and some people have posted acceptances already.

 

The flagship state uni's might actually turn out to be something that you have eliminated by homeschooling. I always told mine that. (Ours is one place we are waiting to hear from now.) The flagships are so overwhelmed with applications that they may not bother with any non-conventional applicants. Private schools may have the time to read course descriptions and figure out what sort of education your son has.

 

Unfortunately, standardized testing is important if you are a homeschooler. Even schools that are test-optional want them from homeschoolers. It would probably be wise to make sure he does ok on the ACT or SAT and has either SAT2s or APs or outside grades for each important subject. Colleges want some way to compare your son to their other applicants. SAT2s allow them to do that. We opted not to do any testing except the SAT (and the DELF French test for his work resume but colleges won't see that) and are hoping that community college classes will substitute for APs and SAT2s but I don't know yet whether that is a viable strategy. If he gets into the state uni, that will be why.

 

You expanded your son. It is no surprise that he didn't fit into the little high school box. You are too expanded to fit into Keystone or something like that, too, lol. But remember there are other options if all else fails. The possibilities are endless. For one of the wilder ones, you can read The New Global Student. And remember, you aren't alone. You are part of the hive. You will feel the pressure to take AP tests but you will also be encouraged to go places you wouldn't have thought of on your own, and you will always have someone to talk you down out of the trees.

 

Lots of hugs,

Nan

 

Nan, I am sorry it has taken me a week to get back to your excellent post, but you and Lisabees brought up good points that I needed to walk through and do the additional research that was indicated.

 

Yes, we knew this could happen and we needed to be sure that this wasn't just growing pains for our son. He said he could stay at school and that he wouldn't be miserable, but he thought he could get more mileage out of a combined plan. This way he gets some of the social and the best of the academics, hopefully.

 

Swimmer Dude likes your analogy to the beanbag chair. He said that it was difficult to get back into the box. For example, he said that after the work we did at home for 8th grade (which wasn't all it could have been), he knew that a Lit & Comp class where you only read one book and wrote one narrative as your primary work for the term, wasn't going to prepare you for a higher tier school. Part of his personality is maintaining a "competitive" edge. :D

 

We may be experiencing the opposite effect of what Lisabees saw when her son came home and then went back to school. My son has had the work we have done together validated and public school looks less glamorous. He thought his siblings were kidding about only two kids in 35 doing their homework in a history class.

 

The friends issue is a difficult one. After having my older kids home, I am keenly aware of the social issues. He explained that the kids he hangs around with at school are really nice, but most are probably not headed to college. He has a "best" friend that he basically grew up with on swim team. They see each other on weekends because we live about 45 minutes away. There are a couple of sailing buddies who are counting down the days until the new season starts. They are all fairly good students and I can see that group being close through high school. He loves his computer stuff, but he is not a hard core gamer. If there were such a thing as a hiking club and it wasn't considered "nerdy," I could see him doing that. He is more of an in the real world type of person than either of my older kids. He needs a handful of good friends and doesn't seem to be interested in a large circle of acquaintances. I wish I had an easy answer for this question.

 

I also agree that he needs challenging non-family mentors. He has an excellent one for sailing and hopefully we can work on that for school. I am requesting that he be allowed to take AP European History next year with the same outstanding teacher my older two have had. It is usually only open to juniors and seniors so we'll see.

 

When I laid out the four-year-plan, it was heavy on AP courses, not because there is a lot of college advantage to having them, but often they were the logical step in a particular discipline sequence. I think he wants to aim for your option B of doing most of what is on the scary list and doing something that will astound Ivy League admissions offices. It is a good thing he likes to test since I think we may have to do a fair amount of it.

 

Nan, I understand hiding in the tree top. You know I do. I am anxiously waiting to hear the results of your grand experiment, because I know that you have definitely not walked the standard path and while I know in my heart that is a good thing on so many levels, it is nice to see it validated on paper as in a college acceptance. :grouphug:

[Kareni]

 

Will I need to take a ton of time out for the testing?

 

 

It depends. (You knew that was coming, didn't you?!) If your son is aiming at very selective colleges, he may need three SAT subject tests. If there are any colleges that he is already interested in, take a look at their requirements as some will specify which SAT subject tests they are looking for. (I recall that my daughter did not apply to one college because they specified that one of the SAT subject tests be in science, and her three were in Latin, Math Level 2, and US History.)

 

If your son is a good test taker, he should take the PSAT in October of his junior year. He should also take the SAT or ACT.

 

Good AP test scores will not come amiss.

 

Also consider tests such as the National Latin Exam or AMC (if he's mathy) or ....

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Gwen in VA]

If you need somebody to tell you it can work - there are a lot of us who have kids who have succeeded this way. You'll be fine and so will he.

 

Yup -- successful kids CAN graduate from the homeschool with nothing but a mommy diploma!

 

One suggestion -- check out an online class or two. My kids -- the social and the antisocial ones -- have all enjoyed online classes. They like the community, the support, and the fact that the teacher is NOT mom! And the outside verification is an added plus. I would not have been able to homeschool my boys without online classes!

[swimmermom3]

It depends. (You knew that was coming, didn't you?!) If your son is aiming at very selective colleges, he may need three SAT subject tests. If there are any colleges that he is already interested in, take a look at their requirements as some will specify which SAT subject tests they are looking for. (I recall that my daughter did not apply to one college because they specified that one of the SAT subject tests be in science, and her three were in Latin, Math Level 2, and US History.) If your son is a good test taker, he should take the PSAT in October of his junior year. He should also take the SAT or ACT. Good AP test scores will not come amiss. Also consider tests such as the National Latin Exam or AMC (if he's mathy) or .... Regards, Kareni

 

From what we have seen so far, I believe he will need 3 Subject tests, one of which needs to be for a language. This would be Spanish for him. That was not on my radar so now I have some questions for his Spanish teacher.

 

Do you have a rough estimate for how much additional time your dd needed to add to her studies in order to do well in the Subject tests?

 

 

Yup -- successful kids CAN graduate from the homeschool with nothing but a mommy diploma! One suggestion -- check out an online class or two. My kids -- the social and the antisocial ones -- have all enjoyed online classes. They like the community, the support, and the fact that the teacher is NOT mom! And the outside verification is an added plus. I would not have been able to homeschool my boys without online classes!

 

Gwen, do you have some favorite online courses? Our experience with mainstream suppliers like Keystone, Connections, K12, and Seton has been average at best. The interaction with other students was on the same level as what my son is experiencing at school. The answers presented in online discussions for English 12 for Connections Academy were ones I would not have accepted from ds in 7th grade.

 

I know we will need outside verification. I found a site today where home school moms were discussing how their children were accepted to schools such as Yale and Princeton. The outside classes with a letter from the teacher or professor were part of the key.

[Kareni]

Do you have a rough estimate for how much additional time your dd needed to add to her studies in order to do well in the Subject tests?

 

For the SAT Subject test in American History, my daughter required no additional test prep time as she took the test one month after taking the AP US History exam. The AP class was an out of the home class.

 

For the Latin subject test, she did do some extra review using test materials.

 

For the SAT Math Level 2 test, she went through a test prep book or two. She took the test after taking College Algebra and Trigonometry at the local community college.

 

Gwen, do you have some favorite online courses?

 

Clearly, I'm not Gwen; however, I wanted to say that we were pleased with the one online course my daughter took which was AP Statistics through PA Homeschoolers. The class was taught by Carole Matheny (also known here as Blue Hen). My daughter was challenged by the class but was well prepared for the exam and scored a five.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[lisabees]

Clearly, I'm not Gwen; however, I wanted to say that we were pleased with the one online course my daughter took which was AP Statistics through PA Homeschoolers. The class was taught by Carole Matheny (also known here as Blue Hen). My daughter was challenged by the class but was well prepared for the exam and scored a five.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

Lisa,

 

Ds also took one AP class through AP Homeschoolers - Language and Composition with Maya Inspektor (daughter of the Richmans). DS LOVED this course. Extremely well organized and interactive. Mrs. Inspektor was more than happy to write a "glowing" Letter of Recommendation.

 

When researching PA Homeschoolers, I did a thorough job of reading the teacher's bios and emailing Susan Richman about teachers that swing right or left in their teaching of the class. I mention it, in case it is of importance to you.

 

Ds also took Chemistry through ChemAdvantage. It was also well-organized, but ds did not find it particularly inspiring or engaging. There wasn't any interaction with the other students.

 

DS13 is taking algebra with Derek Owens. We are also having success with this class, but, once again, no interaction. Because it is pre-recorded, the student must be proactive about emailing the teacher with questions. Derek Owens goes up through Calculus.

 

My high schooler's online classes prepared him for the AP and SAT Subject tests during class. He did little out of class. For other subjects, he went through the study books.

 

I also recommend being strategic about your SAT Subject tests. Take them when the information is still fresh (funny how some people don't time it right). And take subject tests for those classes which are not AP. If SailorDude wants top tier colleges, he needs to have all of this back-up.

 

I would have SailorDude take PSATs during sophomore and junior years (reach out to school about it in August/September before sophomore year). And be sure to do both ACT and SAT tests; some kids are much stronger at one over the other. Also, be aware that some colleges require ALL scores of ALL tests and some require top scores of whatever tests and dates you choose. You will soon be good at creating spreadsheets to keep it all straight!

 

That's enough for now. No need to get too overwhelmed yet! So glad you'll be spending time with SailorDude. Nothing like having a kid at home who wants to be there!!!