Anybody emancipated their 18 yr old so he can afford the bill?

[Holly IN]

Hello,

 

Son got accepted to a very expensive school (well its expensive in my book) and the reason he is interested in this one as it has the only program he is wanting out of all the colleges in the state of Indiana.

 

Right now I can't figure out the EFC as it is confusing to me and everytime I do it I come up with a different number. sigh! I have an appt with our accountant in January. Right now we are talking about possibly emancipating our oldest child. If we do, we can help him a lot more than if he is still our dependant. Again I can't figure out the EFC so I do not know where we are at at this point. For now it is stating $10,000 is our EFC. We are still waiting on his ACT score to see if his scholarship ranking will go up. We are supposed to get his score today. (Crossing fingers)

 

Just wonder if this has crossed anybody's mind here.

(please no throwing rocks or smear) ;)

 

Holly

[Dana]

From some things I've read, it's likely that your child would still be considered your dependent for the purposes of financial aid. I don't think emancipation would help with bills at all. Sorry.

[JFSinIL]

It won't work. He has to be married or 24 for financial aid to not look at your income. Sorry.Besides which, I don't think you can emancipate someone who is legally an adult.

[LibraryLover]

Yep. That won't work. Maybe you can marry him off to a poor girl.

[Holly IN]

We are hoping for that but nope not happening now. That is what my dad did before I went to college. I married my high school sweetheart right after I graduated from high school. :) (still happily married 21 yrs going on strong)

 

Holly

[Barbara H]

It is a difficult situation for sure - I've yet to meet a middle class person who thinks their EFC was reasonable! Here's an article from my site that explains what is required for independent student status http://homeschoolsuccess.com/financial-aid-independent-student-status/

 

I would keep in mind even if you somehow came out with a lower EFC, that doesn't necessarily mean the college will fully meet his financial need (or that they will do so without a lot of loans). Your accountant may be an expert in the field of financial aid but just as a general point it is worth mentioning that many accountants know very little about college financing.

 

Good luck with the scores - hope he gets a big improvement!

[Susann]

OK, just being nosy here-what's the major/school (I'm in IN, too)????

[Holly IN]

His major is Media Communications and the school is Indiana Wesleyan.

 

IUPUI application is political science. He refused to do their communication.

 

Holly

[Susann]

Oh, I love IWU!! Both my dds checked it out. I hope it works out for you!

[misty.warden]

Emancipation, which is a state ruling, doesn't have anything to do with federal aid guidelines for parental contribution, something that made me go 0.o when I was that age too. When I got divorced at 19 I was considered a dependent student again, I guess the government assumes divorced people under 24 go back to living with their parents unless they have kids (which also makes you independent, regardless of where you live or if you have a job)? I feel bad for kids whose parents have the money to pay for college and refuse as well as folks who can't afford to spare what is assumed they should.

 

ETA: it sounds like what you want to do is release yourselves from financial responsibility for your child so that he's not seen as financially dependent on you. Even disownment isn't covered by the Higher Education Act, though it's not unheard of for college staff to bend the rules in extreme cases, but it's also not something to count on.

[Murphy101]

I just have never understood why students don't sue over this. It sounds completely illegal to demand a grown adult must get the financial records of another grown adult to receive government assistance. Can you imagine the outcry if you couldn't get foodstamps until age 25 unless your parents disclosed their finances and were told they had to contribute a box of ramen every week first?

 

End mild futile rant at buacracy. :)

[TranquilMind]

Hello,

 

Son got accepted to a very expensive school (well its expensive in my book) and the reason he is interested in this one as it has the only program he is wanting out of all the colleges in the state of Indiana.

 

Right now I can't figure out the EFC as it is confusing to me and everytime I do it I come up with a different number. sigh! I have an appt with our accountant in January. Right now we are talking about possibly emancipating our oldest child. If we do, we can help him a lot more than if he is still our dependant. Again I can't figure out the EFC so I do not know where we are at at this point. For now it is stating $10,000 is our EFC. We are still waiting on his ACT score to see if his scholarship ranking will go up. We are supposed to get his score today. (Crossing fingers)

 

Just wonder if this has crossed anybody's mind here.

(please no throwing rocks or smear) ;)

 

Holly

 

 

It will not work. The feds consider your young adult a dependent for purposes of financial aid up to age 24, I believe it is, unless married or in the military.

 

Back in my day, you were an adult if you were self-supporting. I was and was able to apply on my own in my early 20's. Today, nope.

[TranquilMind]

I just have never understood why students don't sue over this. It sounds completely illegal to demand a grown adult must get the financial records of another grown adult to receive government assistance. Can you imagine the outcry if you couldn't get foodstamps until age 25 unless your parents disclosed their finances and were told they had to contribute a box of ramen every week first?

 

End mild futile rant at buacracy. :)

 

 

No kidding, Martha! That is so obvious and glaringly inconsistent that I'm ashamed that it never occurred to me, though the hypocrisy did occur to me.

 

What's next? Demanding the records of middle aged adults before their elderly parents can get their Social Security? Probably, if there's a way to shift more financial burden to families, it will be done.

[misty.warden]

I just have never understood why students don't sue over this. It sounds completely illegal to demand a grown adult must get the financial records of another grown adult to receive government assistance. Can you imagine the outcry if you couldn't get foodstamps until age 25 unless your parents disclosed their finances and were told they had to contribute a box of ramen every week first?

 

End mild futile rant at buacracy. :)

 

 

I know what you mean, but sue whom? I guess we could go all class-action suit on the Fed but somehow I don't see that ending with the students getting money. PLUS loans are the ones that really boil me, demanding not only financial records but that your parents also take out loans to pay for an adult child to go to college? There isn't enough space on the internet to contain the rant I could have about college expenses in general and Federal Aid specifically.

[TranquilMind]

I know what you mean, but sue whom? I guess we could go all class-action suit on the Fed but somehow I don't see that ending with the students getting money. PLUS loans are the ones that really boil me, demanding not only financial records but that your parents also take out loans to pay for an adult child to go to college? There isn't enough space on the internet to contain the rant I could have about college expenses in general and Federal Aid specifically.

 

 

This would never happen in a million years. If we can't pay for it, the kid will have to find a way to make it happen. How stupid to burden parents with debt who are at least close to middle age, or , in our case...much further along.

[Serenade]

It will not work. The feds consider your young adult a dependent for purposes of financial aid up to age 24, I believe it is, unless married or in the military.

 

Back in my day, you were an adult if you were self-supporting. I was and was able to apply on my own in my early 20's. Today, nope.

 

Do you know why and when this changed?

 

I've just recently learned about this, and it makes me crazy! How can a child be considered a dependent for education, but also be considered a full, independent adult for other things? Either 21 (or 18!!!) makes one a full legal adult, or it doesn't. This wishy-washy stuff drives me nuts!

[Serenade]

No kidding, Martha! That is so obvious and glaringly inconsistent that I'm ashamed that it never occurred to me, though the hypocrisy did occur to me.

 

What's next? Demanding the records of middle aged adults before their elderly parents can get their Social Security? Probably, if there's a way to shift more financial burden to families, it will be done.

 

I really think it's just another way of redistributing wealth.

 

I don't know how my boys will afford to go to college. Wait until they are 24? That would be nuts! I've still got 6 years before the oldest goes, so maybe we'll experience some kind of financial miracle. We will not qualify for any aid because our physical assets are too significant -- we are and will be cash poor, but land rich. We are older parents, too, who will be getting close to that retirement age. Not good. Not good at all.

[Lori D.]

It is a difficult situation for sure - I've yet to meet a middle class person who thinks their EFC was reasonable!

 

 

Yes, that's what has to happen -- figure out how to lower the EFC. Not a rep for these people, and haven't personally used their service, but a friend recommended the Hefar Group to me. They provide free info, with as many phone calls as you want with tips to help you lower your EFC. They are an investment group and offer this service in hopes that later on you will think kindly of them and go with them for your investment needs.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that expensive schools often offer good financial aid packages that include grants and scholarships that help lower the tuition -- often to the point of being competitive with state public universities.

 

Another radical idea for funding college -- how well off are the grandparents or other relatives and are they flexible people? Do they have enough money, and the willingness to try something different -- they could loan your student the tuition, and your student pays it back with a small interest rate later. Student wins by having money when needed and pays far less interest than traditional loans -- grandparents/relatives win because they earn interest on the money (at a higher rate than just sitting in the bank), AND they win knowing their money invested in a valuable commodity -- educating/equipping grandchild/relative for their future! Just a wacky idea... ;)

 

For more out-of-the-box college funding ideas, check out this past thread: Brainstorm $$ for College Ideas Thread. BEST of luck! Lori D.

[TranquilMind]

Do you know why and when this changed?

 

I've just recently learned about this, and it makes me crazy! How can a child be considered a dependent for education, but also be considered a full, independent adult for other things? Either 21 (or 18!!!) makes one a full legal adult, or it doesn't. This wishy-washy stuff drives me nuts!

 

Because it is all about the money, not whether they are actually adults or not.

 

They want parents to pay. Most parents can't pay today anyway, as it costs a few years salary to send a child through college.

 

Military folks - remember to use the Child of a Disabled Veteran benefits, if you are eligible. A military person told me they still exist.

 

Too bad Grandchild of a Disabled Veteran benefits don't exist!

[TranquilMind]

 

I really think it's just another way of redistributing wealth.

 

I don't know how my boys will afford to go to college. Wait until they are 24? That would be nuts! I've still got 6 years before the oldest goes, so maybe we'll experience some kind of financial miracle. We will not qualify for any aid because our physical assets are too significant -- we are and will be cash poor, but land rich. We are older parents, too, who will be getting close to that retirement age. Not good. Not good at all.

 

Older parents here too. I hear you!

 

Yes, if they need to wait until 24 to do it, it might be worth it.

[Gwen in VA]

We will not qualify for any aid because our physical assets are too significant

 

Merit aid! This is where a focused pursuit of merit aid is well worthwhile.

 

Colleges are giving out much more merit aid than they used to -- and kids who are aware and focused can dramatically lower the cost college college.

[creekland]

Merit aid! This is where a focused pursuit of merit aid is well worthwhile.

 

Colleges are giving out much more merit aid than they used to -- and kids who are aware and focused can dramatically lower the cost college college.

 

 

We scratched any college that did not offer merit aid off our list. Due to the economy, our income has been low enough to get decent need-based aid, but as the economy improves, if my guys didn't also have merit aid we could have been looking at some huge bills - without savings since we needed those to pay bills during the down economy. There are plenty of really good schools that do offer merit aid, so my guys did not feel cheated with their apps. Both love where they are going now.

 

Also, if I recall correctly, remember a primary residence is not counted with FAFSA. It is with CSS Profile. (If I'm NOT remembering correctly, someone fix this as hubby is the one who actually does the aid forms.)

[Brenda in MA]

Also, if I recall correctly, remember a primary residence is not counted with FAFSA. It is with CSS Profile. (If I'm NOT remembering correctly, someone fix this as hubby is the one who actually does the aid forms.)

 

 

Creekland,

 

While your primary residence's value is not counted with FAFSA, some very few schools (usually the tippy top, well-endowed ones) also don't consider it either even though they ask for the CSS Profile. The best way to find out is to check the colleges' websites and also use their Net Price calculators. Some of the calculators are better than others, and you can play around with the numbers and run it several times to see how they are assessing each asset.

 

Most schools that do ask for the CSS Profile form do consider the value of your primary residence, which really hurts those who live in places where real estate is expensive.

 

Brenda

[Janice in NJ]

Sometimes there is a great divide between knowing how this all works in 2012 and thinking that you know how this all works because you went to school in 1981.

 

Once you start doing your homework and you figure out how all of this works, you'll spend a week or so in complete incredulity. The good news? Eventually we all pick our jaw up off the floor and move forward. You're in good company. You'll get there too. We all have those early morning flashes of confusion as we wake up when we honestly think that marrying off our child with a pre-nup is the only way out of this mess. Of course, reason prevails as the blood flows back to the brain while we sit there on the edge of the bed. But please understand that those insane thoughts don't come because there are other, more sensible solutions that are being over looked. :)

 

The bad news? Understanding how this whole mess gets paid for is just the first hurdle.

 

Wait until you peel back the next layer of the onion: graduation rates.

 

The next? Quality of education.

 

You can spend a lot of time asking the wrong questions. Instead of focusing on "How did it get this bad?", take my advice, focus on "How do we get through this with the best possible outcome?" (Not an ideal outcome. Shoot for best possible. Really. Very often, it's a better choice.)

 

You can start with this PBS Documentary. Declining by Degrees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rplvn3h75rI

 

Then you can spend some time here on this site; compare some of the stats for the colleges your child is considering. Every spring, I listen to proud parents talk about the schools their kids have chosen. I have yet to meet a parent who knows the 4-year graduation rate for junior's chosen alma-mater.

http://www.collegeresults.org

 

The next step? When your child is offered a hefty merit award, you should ask questions. Here's the rub: Every family has an EFC. If you don't know what yours is, find out. Lots of sites on the web to crunch the numbers; just do a search. Here is the info about the EFC from the gov:

 

http://ifap.ed.gov/e...laGuide1213.pdf

 

Very often the pricey schools know that certain families won't even consider the school because the cost of attendance is going to be way more than the EFC. Please understand this: just because your EFC is $X, that doesn't mean that the school is only going to charge you $X. Very few schools are "100% Need Met Schools." The vast majority of schools can't afford to bridge the gap between the EFC's of their families and the total cost of attendance for the pool. They just don't have the endowment. But in the end, they know that it doesn't matter. If your family can borrow, they know that they only need to get junior to enroll. After that, the family will find a way to keep junior in school even if they can't afford it.

 

You can look at the data:

http://www.collegeboard.org

Search for a college by name. Rutgers is the big NJ university.

On the left click on "Paying"

Then choose the tab "Financial Aid by the Numbers."

Our big state uni only meets 56% of need. That means that your family is generally going to pay more than your EFC. (44% of families there are doing just that.)

 

Another example - Villanova is a big private school around here for nursing applicants. Very prestigious. They meet 82% of need; that means that families are paying 18% more than their EFC on average. And 1/3 of that 82% is met with loans, not scholarships or grants. And that's one of the schools that only admits 44% of applicants - considered Very Selective. And expensive - estimated cost is nearly $57,000; we're talking big money here.

 

Back to scholarships. Pricey privates who don't meet 100% of need know that families with higher EFC's are going to be turned off to their school. So they offer big merit scholarships. Usually enough to bring the cost of the school closer to the family's EFC. PLEASE ask this question, "What percentage of students meet the GPA requirements the first semester? What percentage of students keep their scholarship for the second semester? What percentage of students who come in with a merit scholarship freshman year keep that scholarship for all eight semesters?"

 

I think you will be surprised. Admissions officers MUST close the deal. They need to get a huge number of student to apply to keep their "admission rates" low. Then they need to close the deal. They are looking for a target number of students whose parents can easily afford to pay the full shot. These parents will feel lucky to get their kid admitted, and they will happily ante up the cash.

 

Then there are a number of students with test scores in the 75%+ range for that school. That will be good for the school's ranking, so of course there is an urge to close the deal. They assess the parent's position. Most private schools will ask you to complete the very invasive college board financial profile. If you look at the questions, it's clear what they are looking for. How much money do the parents have, and how likely are they to borrow money to pay for college for junior? And if they attempt to borrow it, will someone loan it to them? MOST schools DO NOT send the admissions letter until AFTER you submit this form. They say they are need blind, but of course they are not. Otherwise, why would they require the form prior to the admissions decision? But here's the problem. If your EFC is $25,000 and this school is going to cost you closer to $45,000, they know that you probably will say "No" and send junior somewhere else. So they offer junior a merit scholarship, that usually almost ALWAYS brings the cost of the school in line with your EFC. Junior is offered a $20K merit scholarship.

 

"OK," you say. That's still painful: $25K is still a lot of money. "But look at this, he got a scholarship. It looks like the school really wants my kid. He's probably going to do well there. After all, the school is planning to invest $80K in his education. That's a vote of confidence."

 

Not necessarily. The school is actually only guaranteeing the first $10K. Heaps of kids who earn merit scholarships don't earn the GPA to keep the scholarship. Really. Ask for the numbers. Push for them; I suspect you will be surprised. There are a large number of parents across the country who are staring down the barrel of something called, "Academic Probation" during these weeks between Christmas and the third week in January. (Start asking around. You'll meet them.) They are being asked to ante up the full $22,500 for the spring semester when they were planning to pay $ 12,500. Junior didn't meet the GPA requirement last fall. There is a lot of discussion in hushed tones about how "College can be a tough transition. Some kids find it harder than others." In fact, if this was discussed more openly, parents won't feel so isolated. I suspect there would be less of this staring at your kid and thinking, "What's wrong with my kid?" and a lot more, "Hey - wait a minute. Is this a scam?" OK....maybe not a scam - just a very weird system that leaves the parents feeling coerced? In either case, the college has only put the student on probation. There is still a chance that he will get that scholarship back - and that's a lot of money. If you don't ante up the $ 22,500 to see if the kid can yank his GPA out of the dust bin, you will lose the rest of the scholarship (3 years at $20K per year) . It will only cost you $10K extra to keep the $60K that's left of the scholarship. What choice do you have? It's not like you can switch to one of the other schools that was offering junior a scholarship last spring. He didn't get a 3.3 this past fall. He/she is now academically damaged goods. *giggle* Psst: ask for the percentage. What percentage of kids who are put on academic probation earn their scholarship back and then go on to keep it?

 

Please don't think ill of the admissions counselors. All of the schools are playing this game, so schools must play or they won't meet admissions benchmarks. After all, it's their job to keep the money coming in or the whole thing collapses. (Someone has to pay for the new fitness center with the rock climbing wall and the new gourmet food court and the ........)

 

How many of the parents are going to drive to the school, clean out the dorm (pay the penalties for not enrolling for the spring semester), and pull the kid out of school?

 

And how many of the parents are going to hang their head in shame and ante up the $22,500 in the hopes that junior will buckle down and get his/her scholarship back by moving from zero to hero with the GPA? In harder classes. With a shaky foundation.

 

Hate to be the wet blanket - but please ask. What percentage of students keep their merit scholarship for all eight semesters with no hic-ups?

 

Merit Scholarships with a firm GPA requirement that bring the cost of the college in line with the family's EFC at schools that are less than 100% need met should be viewed with a wary eye. Especially at schools with 4-year graduation rates below 85%.

 

The admissions counselors are playing the odds. They know that the school can't afford to fully fund all of those merit scholarships for all eight semesters. They are certain that the system will produce a high number of casualties. A large percentage of those students will shift to the full-pay category. Some won't ; some will keep the scholarship. But remember, the school only has to discount a large number of students $10K, not $80K. A lot of those kids will stick around for 5-6 years in order to get a diploma; well worth the initial discount of $10K to get them (and their parents borrowing capacity) to enroll.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Janice has some shut wrenching sobering thoughts. NY Times and Wall Street Journal have been running college cost articles over the last couple months. One NY Times article really upset me.

 

It was supposed to show the hurdles for low income students who go to college but then encounter difficulties because they don't understand when to lodge aid appeals or push back or ask for help.

 

But what ticked me off was the girl who could have done well in college, but only applied to Northwestern and Emory. Was only accepted at Emory. Didn't read the emails about financial aid and special indoc for low income students. So she ended up signing for 40000 per year in loans.

 

Where was the safety school? If she was good enough for Emory why didn't she apply to UT Austin or other state schools (she lived in Tx). Why did the program for 1st in family college students seem to leave them on their own one she was accepted? There were so many assumptions and mistakes that it took my breath away.

[creekland]

While there are many in Janice's stated situation, one should note that there are also students who do make it. ;)

 

I definitely prefer optimism and "chance" over pessimism, but definitely know your student and talk about the what ifs. My boys know if they lose their merit aid they are responsible for making up for it (or leaving the school).

 

I fully agree with the need-based aid advice. NOT all schools meet need. Actually, most don't IME. Choose carefully and apply to multiple schools. School A might not need what your student offers enough to give a good package. School B might. Middle son's schools ranged from us paying less than 10K to 33K after aid packages came in (for everything including books, travel, and room & board). That's a huge difference. I don't totally know what oldest's would have been as his first choice was the first school that gave us a package and it was affordable (also < 10K). A couple of other schools he turned down told him to contact them if it was a money issue, but it wasn't.

 

Youngest is going to be trickier. He doesn't have the higher stats nor the great GPA that oldest and middle had. He's going to try for some geographical diversity and lower level schools (where his stats are in the top 25%), but honestly? We'll probably be paying more and we know that. Time will tell if he can find a place that ends up affordable. If not, a gap year to work or cc may be happening. High debt is not happening.

[Wheres Toto]

The whole situation stinks but it's not new. I graduated high school in 1987. In 1990 I had a friend in college who was having a hard time with the financial aid forms. She left her parents home when she was 16 (emancipated minor). Had been supporting herself for 3 years by that point. Had absolutely no contact with her parents, didn't even know if they were alive. They still wanted her to submit her parents financial information in order to qualify for financial aid.

 

What gets me is you have to fill out the FAFSA even to get federal or state loans.

 

Edited to add: Dd was offered pretty decent merit scholarships at two private schools she applied to. They cut the tuition/fees down by half. We chose to have her attend a state school close enough to commute if necessary instead, partially over concerns about subsequent years.

[Gwen in VA]

While there are many in Janice's stated situation, one should note that there are also students who do make it. ;)

 

I love Janice's post. It is a great summary of the problems besetting our college system.

 

That said, many students DO find a way through that does not involve ridiculous debt. Many students do get a great education. Statstics can be useful, but they can also be misleading because the statistics don't necessarily apply to your kid and your situation.

 

Follow Creekland's example and check out schools that give merit aid. Thoroughly investigate the quality of the education given. Look at your kid, not just school rankings, when trying to make a match. And pray.

 

And do investigate alternatives. ROTC is one. My third is at a tuition-free schoo (ranked #1 in the nation in his field of interest!)l. Yes, tuition-free colleges are unusual, but they are out there!

 

So keep looking and listening. People have found wonderful unusual routes to helping their kids get the education of their dreams.

[Janice in NJ]

Creekland, you said, "There are plenty of really good schools that do offer merit aid, so my guys did not feel cheated with their apps. Both love where they are going now." In regard to the italicized part, I'm happy for you. But I can say, that is not the case with my kids.

 

I'm happy for you, I am. But it's hard when it feels like you're swimming upstream. It helps to know where the swift current is coming from; knowledge is power. But it's still exhausting. I'm here to offer empathy and hugs to the folks who are dealing with less-than-ideal situations.

 

No offense, Creekland. Really. But your situation is not that common. The original poster is talking about legally disowning her kid in order to solve this problem. For a LOT of us, that's because ALL POSSIBLE SCENARIOS stink (I'm actually thinking of another word. *giggle*) RIGHT NOW. You don't disown your kid because your looking for a way to save a couple thousand bucks. We are not choosing between happiness A and joy B. We are choosing between I-think-we-can-bear-it A, painful B, and I-can't-breathe C. Just an FYI: Choice C is the good school. Choice C is the school that we can share with pride; very impressive. Choice A will be met with, "Oh. That's nice" with a sideways glance of "Why would they send this very bright, intelligent, high-achieving child there? Is there something wrong with these people?" (Dd is a National Merit Commended Student. She will graduate high school with over 40 college credits: 6 honors courses and 7 regular courses. Her college profs rank her in the top hand full of students they have taught over the span of their careers.)

 

DD received the admissions packet from a very, very good private school recently. Gorgeous packet. Beautiful. Solid merit scholarship (Nearly 70% of tuition). Great school for her major; she gained admission to a prestigious program. She held it in her hands. I watched her open it. What should have been a high point in her life was actually a very painful dose of reality. Made me want to cry actually. "Too bad I can't go. Shall I put this down in the file cabinet or should I just toss it?"

 

It was hard. Very hard.

 

Oh well. Next.

 

Brenda mentioned the profile and the value of your primary residence. Why do they want to know that? Because it represents borrowing power. If you own some equity in your home, the college can be pretty sure that you will probably borrow against it to keep junior in school. For us, having equity doesn't mean that we have a fancy house. We live in under 1,000 square feet; our lot is 5,000 square feet (yes, in Jersey dirt is measured in feet). Our house is UNDER the median value for our town. (I roll my dishwasher over the sink to run it. My kitchen is really no more than a room with a tiny counter with a sink and a couple of cupboards screwed to the wall. My stove, refrigerator, and roll-a-washer just sit there in the room. Shoved against the wall. Really; it's a great house for us. We can afford it. And it's a cozy, warm place. But it's very modest.) But it's in a place where property values are high (prices are high too - we pay nearly $9K in property taxes). We have some equity; we are trying to be adults here. But it doesn't mean that we have wealth. The house is still really more of a burden than an asset. Like I said, we are trying to be adults, but the interest on the loan far exceeds most people's mortgage payments. (We CRAWL toward equity while making an enormous payment every month.) If we could sell it and live in a tree, it might be an asset. But until we die, it won't represent anything other than a very expensive place to keep my rolling dishwasher.

 

And because we live in a place where property values are high, salaries are a bit higher. Which means we have a higher EFC. DH currently has a solid job; his salary hasn't gone down during this recession. We are grateful for that; we are. But things are tight at work, which means he puts in sometimes 70+ hours a week. For the same pay.

 

The good news? College will cost more. So at least there's that.

 

Creekland, you also mentioned that your kids understand that if they lose their merit award, they are responsible for making it up. Thank goodness that things are going well. Really, you should be very proud and happy. And you should be grateful that you aren't being forced to follow through on this threat.

 

However, that's not always the case. Back to the original question: emancipation. If you tell your kid they are going to have to make up the difference if they lose their scholarship, please know that in general that is an empty bluff. Most loan companies will make you co-sign if the loan is over a few thousand dollars. If you don't sign, they stay home.

 

So when you say, "Huge debt is not an option," please know that what you may be saying is "You will not get a college education."

 

For a lot of schools, what you are really saying is this, "A percentage of merit-award winners at this school actually earn a 3.3+ the first semester. If you don't manage to find yourself in that pool of winners among "winners", you will not be getting a college education."

 

Optimism can be expensive. Those of us who are tagged "pessimist" didn't get here because we like being this way. :-)

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

P.S. Another thing. If your child is at a 100% need-met school and your EFC is low enough, it doesn't matter if he keeps his scholarship. At all. If they lose their scholarship, the Fin Aid office will make up for the lost scholarship with grants. The EFC is the EFC. If your child is already receiving merit aid on top of his/her scholarship, you are home free. Even if they botch the scholarship and lose it, they still get an inexpensive education. Your cost doesn't go up one red cent.

[JFSinIL]

I feel we are (knock wood) lucky that CollegeMan, now a Jr. at his LAC, has kept his GPA way up (despite being in Honors and Chemistry. He likes the challenge!). His merit awards and grants made the cost of the LAC less than our EFC. After looking at (with him) about 30 - 40 school on-line and then helping him apply to 11 and get accepted at 9...I can see how one has to really comb through the on-line financial award part of any college's website. Only apply to ones that guarantee the merit award for all four years (if GPA kept up, which is only reasonable.) Do look for graduation rates - will the student be able to complete the degree in four years (before the merit aid stops?) Help make sure the student takes as many classes as possible that count towards the major to be sure to get out on time!

 

We made the mistake of not checking thoroughly before having ds apply to, and be accpeted by, a few schools that simply did not have merit awards high enough to make the schools affordable. Sure, ds won the highest awards to Gettysburg, Sewanee, and Wooster...but that wasn't enough. Should not have bothered having him apply to those schools.

 

Augustana, in Rock Island IL and Illinois Wesleyan either met (Wes) our EFC or offered enough to go under (Aug) our EFC. So kid is an Auggie.

[creekland]

Janice - have you talked with the financial aid office at College C? There's no guarantee, of course, but sometimes, when there are kids they really want (and your daughter could be one of them), they do come up with more $$. I've seen it happen far more than once with kids at school. The worst they can do is say, "no." Tactfully tell them the same thing about house/salary, etc that you've mentioned here. MANY times financial aid comes from a generic formula and if it works, great. But, having been to a fair number of financial aid meetings over the years, every single one we've been to has said that if you feel there is anything out of the ordinary with regards to your situation, and you want to go there, to call them and talk with them in person.

 

Just a thought.

 

Oh, and our threats are not empty threats. Even if we wanted to, we couldn't co-sign for loans. We are some of the few who don't even qualify for Parent Plus loans. Oldest almost lost his merit aid (and no, the difference would not have been made up by the school), but he got his act together and is doing well now as a junior. He's also going to a, "Oh. That's nice" with a sideways glance of "Why would they send this very bright, intelligent, high-achieving child there? Is there something wrong with these people?" school that very few around here recognize, but it's where he wanted to go and he loves it there. ;)

 

I wish you well as you contemplate your decisions for the future. :grouphug:

 

To anyone down the pipeline, definitely investigate the finances a school is likely to offer (merit and/or need-based) before applying and try not to get a "dream" school if dependent upon the finances. Middle son applied to a couple that weren't his favorite, but he would have gone there (and been happy) if finances didn't come through for his others. High stat kids can do that as there are some that guarantee full tuition (sometimes more) - U Alabama and Pitt fit this "safety" spot for us - there are others that offer good aid for high stats, but it's not the case with ALL schools. "Normal" stat students don't have that opportunity at all generally... We'll be there with youngest and he may, truly, be looking at a gap year to work or cc. Time will tell. We're shifting down (in caliber) to better his odds, but one never knows. As stated before, not all colleges have great endowments to support all who want to come even if they are in the top % of kids who apply.

[cathmom]

This would never happen in a million years. If we can't pay for it, the kid will have to find a way to make it happen. How stupid to burden parents with debt who are at least close to middle age, or , in our case...much further along.

 

 

So when the business office calls and says the only way your child, who is now a junior, can stay in college is to take out a small parent loan, you would say no, especially when the same dc hasn't been able to even find a pt job? Because that's what happened to us, despite an efc of $0. It was take the loan for him, or...I don't know what.

Do you know why and when this changed?

I've just recently learned about this, and it makes me crazy! How can a child be considered a dependent for education, but also be considered a full, independent adult for other things? Either 21 (or 18!!!) makes one a full legal adult, or it doesn't. This wishy-washy stuff drives me nuts!

 

 

Oh yeah, and you can help pay for college, but don't expect us to give you any info ever, because your dc is an adult!

[Barbara H]

For understandable reasons there is always a lot of stress and tension on college financing threads!

 

I wanted to offer a little caution about the idea of lowering your estimated family contribution. That is a number that is calculated primarily on fixed factors (such as income) that most of us don't have a lot of control over. For some upper income families who have more complex financial pictures such as owning a business, it may make sense to get some financial advising but be really careful about who you select because there are a lot of financial advisors out there who know very little about college and really primarily interested in selling loan products. For the vast majority of middle class families who have a pretty straight forward financial situation, it is typically not going to be possible lower your estimated family contribution significantly but you may be able to lower your costs (see the next paragraph). There are people who get really into trying to game the financial aid system by hiding assets and so forth, but for your average middle class family that's really not going to get you anywhere. Your time would be better spent helping your child build a strong academic profile and putting very careful consideration into their college list and final decision making.

 

Also, Talk openly with your kids about college costs and don't want until January of senior year when they've fallen in love with a dream school. There really is no such thing as a "perfect" school or one right way to begin adult life. There are many paths to a good adult life.

[TranquilMind]

So when the business office calls and says the only way your child, who is now a junior, can stay in college is to take out a small parent loan, you would say no, especially when the same dc hasn't been able to even find a pt job? Because that's what happened to us, despite an efc of $0. It was take the loan for him, or...I don't know what.

 

 

Oh yeah, and you can help pay for college, but don't expect us to give you any info ever, because your dc is an adult!

 

 

Why can't he take out his own loan? I heard they give kids loans now. I am not planning to do it.

 

We did buy rentals and plan to sell one for each kid's college education. Hopefully that will help. That is all the EFC they can expect from us.

 

And yeah, you are right. The hypocrisy is amazing. This "adult" has to get his money from you and cough up all YOUR personal info, but don't expect to hear anything about how or what he is doing...

[TranquilMind]

'Janice in NJ':

DD received the admissions packet from a very, very good private school recently. Gorgeous packet. Beautiful. Solid merit scholarship (Nearly 70% of tuition). Great school for her major; she gained admission to a prestigious program. She held it in her hands. I watched her open it. What should have been a high point in her life was actually a very painful dose of reality. Made me want to cry actually. "Too bad I can't go. Shall I put this down in the file cabinet or should I just toss it?"

 

It was hard. Very hard.

 

Oh well. Next.

 

 

Sorry this happened. I wanted to pass along a tip I got from my roofing company owner just a few months ago. He had THREE kids in college last year. He called up his daughter's top choice and said, "We can't do it, but she really wants to come to your school. You will need to increase her financial aid (not loans), or we will have to go with our other offer." They negotiated a bit. He told them sorry, they were going to have to go elsewhere." In a few hours, he got a return call, meeting his requests. He said it was like buying a car at a dealer and don't forget to negotiate hard. I'm not there yet, but I thought it was an interesting piece of information and I would totally do this.

 

 

 

Brenda mentioned the profile and the value of your primary residence. Why do they want to know that? Because it represents borrowing power. If you own some equity in your home, the college can be pretty sure that you will probably borrow against it to keep junior in school.

 

That's just idiotic that this is the expectation, especially after the market crash! Did they think we didn't learn anything?

 

Sorry, personally not risking the house for junior. The other kids need a place to live.

 

 

 

And because we live in a place where property values are high, salaries are a bit higher. Which means we have a higher EFC. DH currently has a solid job; his salary hasn't gone down during this recession. We are grateful for that; we are. But things are tight at work, which means he puts in sometimes 70+ hours a week. For the same pay.

 

Same here! My husband goes into work at 3 a.m. many days and comes home at 7 p.m. or so.

 

 

 

Most loan companies will make you co-sign if the loan is over a few thousand dollars. If you don't sign, they stay home.

 

When donkeys freaking fly will I cosign anything. Even the Bible warns you not to be a co-signer for another. I guess mine will work and go over time, like many people did.

 

 

So when you say, "Huge debt is not an option," please know that what you may be saying is "You will not get a college education."

 

This is so not true. It means many other things. Maybe it means night school and working for several years. I know I guy who did law school 5 nights a week for 5 whole years while working full time with a family. Not a load I'd recommend, but it is doable. It could mean military service. It could mean intentionally working for a company that pays tuition.

[Wheres Toto]

So when the business office calls and says the only way your child, who is now a junior, can stay in college is to take out a small parent loan, you would say no, especially when the same dc hasn't been able to even find a pt job? Because that's what happened to us, despite an efc of $0. It was take the loan for him, or...I don't know what.

Oh yeah, and you can help pay for college, but don't expect us to give you any info ever, because your dc is an adult!

 

When this happened to me after 3 semesters - I took a year off and worked, went back for a year locally (my first college experience was across the country from home), took more time off, went back as I could. Ended up finishing an associates when I was 30 and my bachelor's at 35. Not what I would prefer for my kids. I had done a mix of paying outright, and tuition reimbursements through work.

 

My dd's school will provide parents with information if they go into the office and sign a paper with their child. I am an automatic cc on all my dd's official school emails since I want to make sure nothing important is missed.

 

What screwed us up some here - in NJ my husband (dd's stepfather) is not legally responsible to pay any of her expenses. But the FAFSA uses household income and numbers. So, despite having no legal responsibility to help pay for dd's college, all our aid was based on his income. Lucky for me and dd, he is willing to pay what would be my portion since I stay home.

[Janice in NJ]

You know, I just re-read my post, and I wanted to apologize to Creekland. My tone could really be interpreted as super stinky; I'm sorry - I didn't mean it. I hope I haven't offended you, Creekland. If so, please accept my apology. I'm sorry.

 

Barbara is right - lots of tension. Sorry about generating that. I'm sorry.

 

I'll get there. My kids are happy. They're not miserable. All's well here. (Thanks for the advice about calling to ask for special consideration. Choice C is down in the file cabinet only because it just really seemed wrong on an emotional level to just toss it in the can; it's not because I don't know what to do next. I do. Dd will not be going there. It's OK. We know where she is going, and she is going to get a great education that we can afford.)

 

Life is grand.

 

Time to run the dishwasher. *giggle* Seriously though, it's full. :-)

 

Peace,

Janice

[Nan in Mass]

Janice added a BEWARE piece to this thread (wish we had hybid mode) so I will add one also.

 

Beware "free tuition" if you are looking at a Massachusetts state school. Tuition is low here. Fees are not. So - free tuition AND fees would be nice. Free tuition alone is obviously better than nothing but not nearly as nice as it sounds.

 

For ONE SEMESTER (not the whole year)

Tuition: 857.00

Fees: Curriculum: 4,707.00

Service: 675.50

Activities: 48.50

Basic Health: 327.00

Engineering: 160.00

 

Onetime fees: 485.00

 

So - about $6000 in fees and about $850 in tuition. That tuition-free scholarship is not what it seems. There were some scholarships associated with the MCAS (state tests) that got people all excited and turned out not to be as wonderful as they seem. I don't know if this is still true.

 

Just something to check.

 

Nan

[Brenda in MA]

Janice added a BEWARE piece to this thread (wish we had hybid mode) so I will add one also.

 

Beware "free tuition" if you are looking at a Massachusetts state school. Tuition is low here. Fees are not. So - free tuition AND fees would be nice. Free tuition alone is obviously better than nothing but not nearly as nice as it sounds.

Tuition: 857.00

Fees: Curriculum: 4,707.00

Service: 675.50

Activities: 48.50

Basic Health: 327.00

Engineering: 160.00

 

Onetime fees: 485.00

 

So - about $6000 in fees and about $850 in tuition. That tuition-free scholarship is not what it seems. There were some scholarships associated with the MCAS (state tests) that got people all excited and turned out not to be as wonderful as they seem. I don't know if this is still true.

 

Just something to check.

 

Nan

 

Nan is correct, and this issue gets me mad everytime I read about how MA gives free tuition to high scorers on the state assessment tests. They get a whole 12% discount off of tuition+fees.

 

One other thing -- Nan -- your numbers are for one semester, not for one year for the flagship, UMass Amherst.

 

Brenda

[cathmom]

 

 

Why can't he take out his own loan? I heard they give kids loans now. I am not planning to do it.

 

 

He had his own loan. There was still a gap. Hence, our loan, which he says he will pay eventually.

[creekland]

Janice added a BEWARE piece to this thread (wish we had hybid mode) so I will add one also.

 

Beware "free tuition" if you are looking at a Massachusetts state school. Tuition is low here. Fees are not. So - free tuition AND fees would be nice. Free tuition alone is obviously better than nothing but not nearly as nice as it sounds.

Tuition: 857.00

Fees: Curriculum: 4,707.00

Service: 675.50

Activities: 48.50

Basic Health: 327.00

Engineering: 160.00

 

Onetime fees: 485.00

 

So - about $6000 in fees and about $850 in tuition. That tuition-free scholarship is not what it seems. There were some scholarships associated with the MCAS (state tests) that got people all excited and turned out not to be as wonderful as they seem. I don't know if this is still true.

 

Just something to check.

 

Nan

 

This is scary... I understand all the fees except curriculum. What in the world is that fee for? I suspect it's a rename of what most colleges call "tuition."

 

If I recall correctly from a quick glance, in state CA med schools do the same thing. Tuition is either free or nearly free, but their fees add up to be equivalent of what most state med schools cost. I didn't look long at the list as my guy will have no interest in a CA med school (nor much chance as they tend to be for residents), but it struck me as very odd and misleading - hence the memory. (I saw it on/from a college confidential thread if anyone wants to hunt for it.) I never knew a state school would do the same thing. I wonder who they are trying to fool? The bottom line is still the bottom line with what needs to be paid.

[Jane in NC]

Janice added a BEWARE piece to this thread (wish we had hybid mode) so I will add one also. Beware "free tuition" if you are looking at a Massachusetts state school. Tuition is low here. Fees are not. So - free tuition AND fees would be nice. Free tuition alone is obviously better than nothing but not nearly as nice as it sounds. Tuition: 857.00 Fees: Curriculum: 4,707.00 Service: 675.50 Activities: 48.50 Basic Health: 327.00 Engineering: 160.00 Onetime fees: 485.00 So - about $6000 in fees and about $850 in tuition. That tuition-free scholarship is not what it seems. There were some scholarships associated with the MCAS (state tests) that got people all excited and turned out not to be as wonderful as they seem. I don't know if this is still true. Just something to check. Nan

Nan is correct, and this issue gets me mad everytime I read about how MA gives free tuition to high scorers on the state assessment tests. They get a whole 12% discount off of tuition+fees. One other thing -- Nan -- your numbers are for one semester, not for one year for the flagship, UMass Amherst. Brenda

 

Yup. This is why it was cheaper for my son's friend to attend a private LAC with merit aid than to take advantage of the "free tuition" offer in his home state of MA.

 

One other thing that needs to be added to this discussion: the cost of public universities varies wildly depending on the state. Thus the oft mentioned option of living at home while attending a state school is dependent not only on a family's proximity to a school with an appropriate program but also whether tuition at that school is affordable.

[Nan in Mass]

 

 

Nan is correct, and this issue gets me mad everytime I read about how MA gives free tuition to high scorers on the state assessment tests. They get a whole 12% discount off of tuition+fees.

 

One other thing -- Nan -- your numbers are for one semester, not for one year for the flagship, UMass Amherst.

 

Brenda

 

 

You are right. I knew they seemed too low. I will add something that saying that via edit. Thanks. It makes me mad, too, even though neither of my two older ones were interested in UMass. It seems like such a scam. They should advertise it the way you did - as a discount on the tuition and fees.

 

NMam

[Gwen in VA]

You cannot read the details of the costs and financial aid packages too carefully.

 

My dd received two full-tuition scholarship offers, so you would imagine that her cost of attending the two colleges would be similar. Not so! The difference in costs was close to $10000+ per year!

 

* The colleges had wildly different room and board costs

* One college required the student to attend a January interterm at least twice, and that cost was not included in the full-tuition scholarship

* One college was in our state and this state gives kids who attend private colleges in state a scholarship of a few thousand to defray the cost

* The fees were wildly different -- one had fees of a few hundred per year and one had significantly higher fees.

 

So read those statements of costs, fees, and financial aid with an eagle eye!

[Jane in NC]

You cannot read the details of the costs and financial aid packages too carefully.

 

My dd received two full-tuition scholarship offers, so you would imagine that her cost of attending the two colleges would be similar. Not so! The difference in costs was close to $10000+ per year!

 

* The colleges had wildly different room and board costs

* One college required the student to attend a January interterm at least twice, and that cost was not included in the full-tuition scholarship

* One college was in our state and this state gives kids who attend private colleges in state a scholarship of a few thousand to defray the cost

* The fees were wildly different -- one had fees of a few hundred per year and one had significantly higher fees.

 

So read those statements of costs, fees, and financial aid with an eagle eye!

We had a thread once comparing room and board costs. In general I would say that urban campuses are pricier but the variation is surprising.

[Serenade]

Because it is all about the money, not whether they are actually adults or not.

 

I guess so. I think colleges should charge the exact same fees to everyone, regardless of who is actually paying for it. The college fiasco is like the healthcare fiasco -- there is not a price menu that is the same for all. IMO, this is the crux of the problem. Here is an interesting piece on the FAFSA and college pricing, along with some interesting quotes.

 

http://www.popecente...le.html?id=2654

 

 

Just like airlines, colleges and universities engage in price discrimination. That is, they offer different prices to different people, discounting tuition in the form of “merit†scholarships. Two students sitting next to each other in a classroom may have paid vastly different sums for the same education. In the case of the airlines, paying a higher price gets you something extra—the freedom to change your mind and a preferred seat, for example. And you know what you are getting.

 

But colleges use the FAFSA form, and especially the family’s “expected financial contribution†(EFC, determined by a federal formula) to make their price discrimination as efficient for them as possible. Admissions officials use that information to zero in on the amount of financial aid that is likely to draw the candidates they want to the school. There’s no “wasting†money by giving a family a break on tuition that is any bigger than absolutely necessary.

 

and

 

But if attractive candidates—with high ACT scores and high GPAs—are in the middle class and can, even with a stretch, pay the tuition, the likelihood of getting an aid offer isn’t very good. So, even though these discounts on tuition are sometimes called merit scholarships, merit may be less important than the ability of the family to pay the tuition.

 

 

 

They want parents to pay. Most parents can't pay today anyway, as it costs a few years salary to send a child through college.

 

I'm still having a hard time understanding why tuition is so much more today than it was 30 years ago. Is it because colleges and universities have to allow so many to attend today that they wouldn't have in the past, people that are maybe not the brightest and the best, but who meet other sought after demographics? My mom has recently taught at a state university, and she said it was appalling how many students can barely communicate via speech and/or writing. Why? Is it because "everybody has to go to college," regardless of whether or not they are true college material?

 

All I can hope for is that we somehow have enough funds that we don't have to fill out the danged FAFSA. It is discrimination if I ever saw it. I'm not sure I could even get my DH to contribute the requested info, LOL, he is so adamantly opposed.

 

I do like the suggestion someone posted above about having a grandparent make the student loan instead of the government. My FIL did this for my nephew, and it seemed like a good option all around. Hah! I wonder if colleges give a discount if one pays it all up front? Sigh. I'm sure not. As you said, it's all about the money and getting every last penny they can.

[FaithManor]

You cannot read the details of the costs and financial aid packages too carefully.

 

My dd received two full-tuition scholarship offers, so you would imagine that her cost of attending the two colleges would be similar. Not so! The difference in costs was close to $10000+ per year!

 

* The colleges had wildly different room and board costs

* One college required the student to attend a January interterm at least twice, and that cost was not included in the full-tuition scholarship

* One college was in our state and this state gives kids who attend private colleges in state a scholarship of a few thousand to defray the cost

* The fees were wildly different -- one had fees of a few hundred per year and one had significantly higher fees.

 

So read those statements of costs, fees, and financial aid with an eagle eye!

 

 

I agree with this! DD was offered a full ride to a state institution here in Michigan, but it required that she live in "honors" housing. The full ride was "tuition and fees", not including room and board plus books. They charged an absolute PREMIUM for honors housing...$11,000.00 per year and books averaged over $1500.00. They billed it out as a "full ride" so I'm very glad she read the fine print before getting excited. She's a pretty pragmatic person and has no patience for such things. She called them to decline after choosing U of M and when they asked why, she let them have it. They were shocked that she did not want to take out two loans plus money from us just to pay for room and board.

 

Though she did not receive a "full ride" from U of M, the package of merit aid and what it covered or applied to was actually much better than anywhere else.

 

Read the fine print. There are many times lots of loopholes and added expenses not covered by need and merit based aid.

 

Faith

[Dana]

I'm still having a hard time understanding why tuition is so much more today than it was 30 years ago. Is it because colleges and universities have to allow so many to attend today that they wouldn't have in the past, people that are maybe not the brightest and the best, but who meet other sought after demographics? My mom has recently taught at a state university, and she said it was appalling how many students can barely communicate via speech and/or writing. Why? Is it because "everybody has to go to college," regardless of whether or not they are true college material?

 

 

More students attending is one reason. Endowments were hurt with the recession, so colleges don't have as much money as they used to, state budgets are cutting significantly what they give to schools (to a pretty alarming amount), and I think there's also more bloat with administration and with the idea that a college should be run like a business. It's the business model that's resulting in programs being cut (foreign language, arts).

[creekland]

I guess so. I think colleges should charge the exact same fees to everyone, regardless of who is actually paying for it. The college fiasco is like the healthcare fiasco -- there is not a price menu that is the same for all. IMO, this is the crux of the problem.

 

If you did this, VERY, VERY few students from my area would be able to go anywhere and you'd be setting up major socioeconomic barriers based upon winning, or losing, the birth lottery. I'm sorry, but I really don't see where that is fair nor ideal for our society. We have talented academic kids in our school and they deserve the chance to go to colleges where they can get in IMO. There's no way most could afford it without financial aid either merit or need-based.

 

I do like the suggestion someone posted above about having a grandparent make the student loan instead of the government. My FIL did this for my nephew, and it seemed like a good option all around. Hah! I wonder if colleges give a discount if one pays it all up front? Sigh. I'm sure not. As you said, it's all about the money and getting every last penny they can.

 

Uh, the grandparents of kids in my area couldn't even think about affording to loan students money. Most barely make ends meet. You apparently live in a very different socio-economic class, but not everyone does.

 

Middle son's school did offer a discount for pre-paying. For those who can do it, great! For the rest of us, I'm glad there is both merit and need-based aid. My 4.0 college boy shouldn't have to be working a high school level job just because the economy wiped out our finances (over 6 figures saved and gone). And grandparents? My side were school teachers - back when school teachers earned very little compared to now. Hubby's side were tobacco farm and plant workers. Neither side could afford enough in loans (even for state schools). I'm eternally thankful my guys are getting the opportunities they are getting and it will be remembered in donations to their schools later on so others can benefit too.

 

There's no shame in "earning" ones way through school IMO. If your student can qualify for merit aid - go for it. If your family qualifies for need-based aid, use it (esp my tax dollars). I want the best and brightest in our country to have educational opportunities as, to me, that assists the future of our nation and the world.

[Jane in NC]

I think colleges should charge the exact same fees to everyone, regardless of who is actually paying for it.

<snip>

 

I'm still having a hard time understanding why tuition is so much more today than it was 30 years ago. discount if one pays it all up front? Sigh. I'm sure not. As you said, it's all about the money and getting every last penny they can.

Some public universities had mandates to keep the tuition affordable to students which meant that the general taxpayer was subsidizing tuition. In recent years, costs are shifting to users, a trend that is not going away as states struggle with their budgets.

 

One of the ways this has played out in my state is in the reduction of what I consider "real" faculty at community colleges. Most CC instructors are adjuncts with no benefits and minimal pay. Retirees may enjoy keeping a foot in the classroom, but it is hard for a young academic to raise a family on adjunct's per class pay. This is in part what keeps CC tuition low in many areas.