Does this happen to your kids? Harsher grading vs. benefit of doubt

[SKL]

Since I have two very different kids in the same classroom, I observe when the teacher seems to treat them differently for no apparent (to me) reason.

 

I look over the kids' classwork after it's graded and returned. My advanced kid makes occasional mistakes that are usually overlooked by the teacher. Even when it's flat out wrong, she seems not to notice. I assume she just expects my kid to get it right and doesn't grade as carefully.

 

Now, the other kid, who has a hard time with some classwork, will make the exact same mistake and get points taken off.

 

Example: spelling homework. They are to write 10 words, three times each. Dd5 (the advanced one) leaves out a letter in the third repeat of a word, and she still gets 100%. DD6 does the exact same thing and she gets a 90%. 90% is a B grade. And spelling is one of the few areas DD6 does well at, so this does kind of bug me.

 

This morning I was looking over some math papers. One whole page was an excercise to match the words "first, second, third," etc., to "1st, 2nd, 3rd," up to 10th. My dd6 got every one right, except that the line on the very last one (10th) came up short and ended up pointing at the next choice. She got the entire page marked wrong. Zero. No grace for this kid! (And believe me, with her vision issues, she had to work hard to draw those 9 correct lines. It's likely that she ran out of time at the end.)

 

My dd6 also often gets zero credit for her attempts at writing open-ended answers in sentence format, while her sister can write even worse sentences and get credit.

 

I understand that teachers are human and are entitled to make mistakes. I'm sure my kids are not the only ones who have this happen at times, both in their favor and otherwise. But this is becoming a pattern and I feel it's discouraging. Especially since DD6 is well aware of how much better DD5 is doing on her work.

 

I used to read about how teachers subconsciously favor the smart kids, but I always thought that was largely BS. Now I'm seeing it in action - or at least, that's how it looks to me.

 

I don't think I can go and complain at this point. I think it would just cause problems for both kids. "Oh, you want me to be fair? Fine, I'll mark both kids down." I just think it's a strange phenomenon to observe.

[jennynd]

give 0 to a 6 years old?? That will not sit right with me. let alone the different treatment.

 

DS did have experience that he got question wrong and did not get graded as wrong and also vise versa. Sometimes we look through the page and can't figure out why points were taken since everything was graded as correct. So, teacher does make mistake. However, 0?? that is too much

[TranquilMind]

I've learned that some teachers don't really grade all the problems, but just glance over them to be sure that most are correct. One co-op teacher my son had gave full credit if the page was done, without even looking at the results!

 

My daughter attends a gifted high school, so I thought they would be more thorough. Nope. To my abject surprise, I learned that the math teacher doesn't have time to grade hundreds of sheets a day, so she just grades three problems from each. Great for you, if she picks three of the problems you got right! Bad for you if you got everything right but three problems, and those three problems were the ones graded!

 

I was wondering why my daughter always had either 100%, 66.67%, or on rare occasions, 33%, and no other variation in grades in this class. Fortunately for her,most of them are 100%, but it does seem an odd and unfair way to grade.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Didn't schools used to place twins in different classrooms so they could have more individuality at school? I understand your dds are different ages although I don't remember why you have them in the same grade and class.

[Dmmetler]

I really think, much as you like the Lutheran school (and having had my DD in one, I understand-it was painful to pull her from that school because there were so many good things about it) that your DD6 needs to be in a different classroom than your DD5. She needs the opportunity to show her strengths without the comparison to her sister, and that's hard.

 

FWIW, having taught in the schools, it may not be "favoring" the smart kids so much as "ignoring" them. That is, the teacher knows your DD5 knows the content, and therefore, she's not trying to grade the work in any detailed manner, but she knows she needs to support your DD6 more, so she's looking at her work for clues. It is very, very possible for a bright kid to slide through with substandard work for years because they're known to be "bright", only to fail when they actually have a teacher who grades them to the same standard that's actually expected of the grade.

 

I also have to say-I think giving a zero to a 6 yr old is just plain mean. I'm not a fan of traditional grading for primary age groups at all, and a zero for one missed question is unduly punitive, even for much older kids.

[Annabel Lee]

You could frame it as a question vs. a complaint: "I'm having trouble grasping the grading methods based on my children's graded papers (then show the teacher what you're talking about)... I bet you can fill me in and make it make sense." ;)

 

This is happening to my dd16 right now in math. She helps one of her friends understand concepts, but the friend gets better grades because he's not docked any points for not showing his work. He says he never shows any work. Dd gets 50% docked if she forgets to show even part of her work for one problem. I let her counselor know about the this as soon as I found out. I told the counselor that the kids ought to be crystal clear on exactly how to achieve the highest score they possibly can.

[forty-two]

That happened to my dad in high school. Every year they had a new English teacher (new to the school and often new to teaching, too). On the first essay of the year, Dad would get Cs or Ds (his spelling and hardwriting are pretty bad, plus, per his comments, I don't know that he had a lot to say on typical English topics). And then the teacher would learn that Dad was "one of the smart kids", plus the son of a very talented, charismatic teacher at the school, and magically he'd get As on every subsequent essay ;).

 

Helpful when it works for you, but sucks when it works against you :hug.

[SKL]

I really think, much as you like the Lutheran school (and having had my DD in one, I understand-it was painful to pull her from that school because there were so many good things about it) that your DD6 needs to be in a different classroom than your DD5. She needs the opportunity to show her strengths without the comparison to her sister, and that's hard. Problem is that with her history of difficult transitions and anxious attachment (possibly going back to adoption issues), removing her from the environment she's finally getting used to would probably hurt more than it would help. It also happens to be part of the bigger "church family" picture. She would lose her friends etc., which are important to her. If I had it to do over, and knew things would be this tough for her, I might have considered this.

 

FWIW, having taught in the schools, it may not be "favoring" the smart kids so much as "ignoring" them. That is, the teacher knows your DD5 knows the content, and therefore, she's not trying to grade the work in any detailed manner, but she knows she needs to support your DD6 more, so she's looking at her work for clues. It is very, very possible for a bright kid to slide through with substandard work for years because they're known to be "bright", only to fail when they actually have a teacher who grades them to the same standard that's actually expected of the grade. I though of this too. I would be OK with the greater scrutiny of DD6 if it didn't translate to problematic grades. I have had to change my perspective on my kids' grade point average, but still, she's running a C- in math, which is not reflective of her knowledge nor her effort.

 

I also have to say-I think giving a zero to a 6 yr old is just plain mean. I'm not a fan of traditional grading for primary age groups at all, and a zero for one missed question is unduly punitive, even for much older kids. I agree. It seems to me that a full page of that type should be weighted and partial credit allowed, given that there are letter grades being affected here. She got an "F" for the week on math practice because she missed 5 items over 4 pages, with no partial credit given. (I also notice the teacher is not giving credit for the "facts" worksheets on which my kid consistently gets 100%.)

 

 

Comments above.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm getting ticked. Technically the grading on the ordinal numbers is not a mistake, but yeah, it's mean when you look at the overall result.

[SKL]

Didn't schools used to place twins in different classrooms so they could have more individuality at school? I understand your dds are different ages although I don't remember why you have them in the same grade and class.

 

This school only has one first grade class.

 

My kids don't have a problem with being in the same class. It is a comfort to them and does not create problems for the teacher. (I was actually complimented by teacher on how well they relate to each other.) As for being individuals, they could not be more different as it is. It's been interesting to see how differently two kids can develop despite being together almost 100% of the time. :)

[Dmmetler]

I understand exactly what you mean about it being a church family issue. We finally ended up changing churches after pulling DD out of the Lutheran school because it was simply too hard on her to be part of the church on Sunday with kids who had been together all week and had those connections when she hadn't been there for them. It wasn't an easy choice to make.

 

Hopefully the 2nd grade teacher will be a better fit. I wish I had more advice for dealing with the 1st grade teacher-it really doesn't sound like she's well suited to teaching young students who learn at a different pace/in a different way than she expects.

[Uff Da!]

nm

[Dmmetler]

I understand exactly what you mean about it being a church family issue. We finally ended up changing churches after pulling DD out of the Lutheran school because it was simply too hard on her to be part of the church on Sunday with kids who had been together all week and had those connections when she hadn't been there for them. It wasn't an easy choice to make.

 

Hopefully the 2nd grade teacher will be a better fit. I wish I had more advice for dealing with the 1st grade teacher-it really doesn't sound like she's well suited to teaching young students who learn at a different pace/in a different way than she expects.

[SKL]

Just to throw something else out there- Perhaps its she's being easy on DD5 because she is accelerated.

 

Do you mean that because she's younger, the teacher might want to be more gentle with her, or tolerate more carelessness? Hmm, that is a thought. Though if that is the case, then she should be giving both dds some grace, considering DD6 is also young (October birthday).

 

I'm thinking now that it's more of a lazy issue with DD5, since she doesn't need much guidance. And the issue with DD6 is more how it affects her grades than the fact that she points things out. I mean, good, point out DD's mistakes early and often, as a way of guiding her. But don't give her an "F" for the week when she's getting most of the concepts and making the effort to complete the work. (The only concept she really missed was that if they say "which one is third," you don't automatically count from the left. You check to see where the front of the line is and count from there. If the "first" item is on the right, you count from right to left to figure out which is the "seventh." This is most likely a listening issue [assuming the teacher explained well] and not an indication that DD6 is terrible at math.)

 

I just hope my kid doesn't end up hating math!

 

So far, she seems to stay motivated. She will even ask me to do math stuff with her at home.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I think this is absolutely appalling, but sadly all too common. I just came back from my weekly math lab volunteering stint in dd6's classroom. The teacher has all the kids pegged - smart ones, dumb ones, that one can't count, that one doesn't listen. She says it all out loud, to me or to them, and she treats them according to her labels. Sometimes it's true that they can't do the activity on their own, but how f*&%$@ discouraging to them to have her say it out loud before they even try! And sometimes, they actually *can* do it, if I work with them on it patiently. Either way, I think it's so wrong to put kids into these pigeonholes, and then not let them out no matter how they perform.

 

And I think lots of teachers do it - this one is just wayyy more blatant and obvious about it.

[Arcadia]

I used to read about how teachers subconsciously favor the smart kids, but I always thought that was largely BS. Now I'm seeing it in action - or at least, that's how it looks to me.

 

The teacher has all the kids pegged - smart ones, dumb ones, that one can't count, that one doesn't listen. ..... Either way, I think it's so wrong to put kids into these pigeonholes, and then not let them out no matter how they perform.

 

And I think lots of teachers do it - this one is just wayyy more blatant and obvious about it.

 

 

It has happen both ways for me and my boys. The teachers are more lenient in marking us wrong because they treat it as a "careless mistake" since we are "bright". So while other kids would have the teacher telling the parents that they may need extra help, my kids would get comments that they need to be more careful.

 

However the teachers expectations are higher for me and my boys. My teachers in the 70s-80s favor the "smarter" kids and expect more. So the teachers kind of expect "A" quality work all the time. I see the same thing happening for my boys. Their teachers will push them harder because "things come to them easy". Also if we need help, we are usually last in line to get it (or never get it) because the teachers need to spend time helping the "weaker" students.

[TranquilMind]

I think this is absolutely appalling, but sadly all too common. I just came back from my weekly math lab volunteering stint in dd6's classroom. The teacher has all the kids pegged - smart ones, dumb ones, that one can't count, that one doesn't listen. She says it all out loud, to me or to them, and she treats them according to her labels. Sometimes it's true that they can't do the activity on their own, but how f*&%$@ discouraging to them to have her say it out loud before they even try! And sometimes, they actually *can* do it, if I work with them on it patiently. Either way, I think it's so wrong to put kids into these pigeonholes, and then not let them out no matter how they perform.

 

And I think lots of teachers do it - this one is just wayyy more blatant and obvious about it.

 

Wow.

 

I know this is true. My daughter spent a couple years in a public high school and could really skate on work once she got the reputation as one of the really smart ones. So I'm sure it works the other way too.

 

That teacher is awful to just say this to you, especially like that. She could at least say stuff like, "Joey needs a little more encouragement to pay attention to detail."

 

Rude.

[Nart]

 

 

Do you mean that because she's younger, the teacher might want to be more gentle with her, or tolerate more carelessness? Hmm, that is a thought. Though if that is the case, then she should be giving both dds some grace, considering DD6 is also young (October birthday).

 

I'm thinking now that it's more of a lazy issue with DD5, since she doesn't need much guidance. And the issue with DD6 is more how it affects her grades than the fact that she points things out. I mean, good, point out DD's mistakes early and often, as a way of guiding her. But don't give her an "F" for the week when she's getting most of the concepts and making the effort to complete the work. (The only concept she really missed was that if they say "which one is third," you don't automatically count from the left. You check to see where the front of the line is and count from there. If the "first" item is on the right, you count from right to left to figure out which is the "seventh." This is most likely a listening issue [assuming the teacher explained well] and not an indication that DD6 is terrible at math.)

 

I just hope my kid doesn't end up hating math!

 

So far, she seems to stay motivated. She will even ask me to do math stuff with her at home.

 

Part of the problem for your older DD seems to be the formatting of the problem and not the concepts. For example the question about the order of the line and noticing what way the kids are facing. My son just finished SM1a and I remember he asked me how do you always know where the front of the line is, maybe the kids heard a noise so they all turned around. I am sure in real life if she saw a line of kids she could pick out whose third or fifth, etc.

 

Someone recently posted that you can get free online access to Math in Focus all grade levels, all materials (teachers' guide, textbook, extra practice, assessments). I followed the link and looked at the first grade program. If you previewed the material on the weekends then DD would have a better idea of what exactly is required. The whole point is to learn the material so I wouldn't worry about the grades. If you are interested I will track down that post.

[kiwik]

I don't get why they are giving grades anyway. I have never heard of it before reading these forums. My ds5 gets a sticker and a positive comment if he gets it all right and a positive comment about what he got right with the errors corrected gently when it is not all right. Surely that is enough for a child that young?

[Chrysalis Academy]

I don't get why they are giving grades anyway. I have never heard of it before reading these forums. My ds5 gets a sticker and a positive comment if he gets it all right and a positive comment about what he got right with the errors corrected gently when it is not all right. Surely that is enough for a child that young?

 

You'd think, wouldn't you? What seems to be happening in CA is that they are responding to years of failing schools and failing "techniques" (whole language, new math) by pushing more and more rigorous academics to lower grades, raising the expectations (especially in writing, for whatever reason) in the early grades. Oddly, though, this doesn't seem to have trickled up - kids I know who are in middle school are saying they aren't really learning anything new, it's a re-hash of 5th and 6th grade. ??????

[Paige]

I would definitely tell the teacher! You can say that they need to have consistency in grading which should be a given. I would be just as annoyed about the other child not having mistakes marked. I have accelerated kids (and struggling ones) and if I let things slide, the accelerated ones get cocky and sloppy. I think the teacher has a problem with your older DD and needs to be made aware of it. I wouldn't worry about her taking it out on them because she already is. Maybe she is unaware of her bias and by being aware, she can be proactive to watch her thoughts and emotions. If she is so unprofessional as to become worse because she's grumpy, then I would definitely pull her. I understand about the attachment and consistency issues, but there is also risk in leaving her there and her feeling vulnerable and unprotected.

[swellmomma]

Is this the same teacher that said your dd made her feel sick to have in her class etc? (or am I thinking of another poster?) If so there is more going on here than messed up grading. If so it is the sign of a teacher actively sabotaging a student they don't like as a way of exerting their power. It is only the start of Dec and it sounds like this teacher has it in for your dd. There is a whole lot of year left to get through yet and while it has not discouraged her yet it will. Want to know why we started homeschooling? back when ds14 was in 2nd grade he did not get the supports he needed, instead he was labelled one of the "dumb ones" the teacher was never outright with that label but the other kids sure were. The teacher would mark all of his stuff wrong even though he did know the work but according to his IPP needed extended time on each assignment and test. Talking to the teacher and the principal didn't help. Ds was failing school but of course they don't fail them anymore. At the end of grae 2 at only 7 years old my son had planned out his suicide because he felt too stupid to ever learn and ever get any work right. That teacher being so penalistic in her grading drove my son to suicide at only 7 years old. It took years to rebuild his confidence in learning, and here we are 7 years later and he still thinks of himself as one of the dumbs ones even though he is a bright boy. Not advanced, just an average boy as far as intelligence, but her constant low grades, zeros and the labelling that occured have never left his head/heart and he still thinks in those terms.

 

Some people really are not suited to teaching at all, especially teaching young children. I had many of those kinds of teachers growing up. They completely crush the spirit out of a child and the only thing the child learns is to hate learning, to hate school, etc.

[SKL]

Is this the same teacher that said your dd made her feel sick to have in her class etc? (or am I thinking of another poster?) If so there is more going on here than messed up grading. If so it is the sign of a teacher actively sabotaging a student they don't like as a way of exerting their power. It is only the start of Dec and it sounds like this teacher has it in for your dd. There is a whole lot of year left to get through yet and while it has not discouraged her yet it will. Want to know why we started homeschooling? back when ds14 was in 2nd grade he did not get the supports he needed, instead he was labelled one of the "dumb ones" the teacher was never outright with that label but the other kids sure were. The teacher would mark all of his stuff wrong even though he did know the work but according to his IPP needed extended time on each assignment and test. Talking to the teacher and the principal didn't help. Ds was failing school but of course they don't fail them anymore. At the end of grae 2 at only 7 years old my son had planned out his suicide because he felt too stupid to ever learn and ever get any work right. That teacher being so penalistic in her grading drove my son to suicide at only 7 years old. It took years to rebuild his confidence in learning, and here we are 7 years later and he still thinks of himself as one of the dumbs ones even though he is a bright boy. Not advanced, just an average boy as far as intelligence, but her constant low grades, zeros and the labelling that occured have never left his head/heart and he still thinks in those terms.

 

Some people really are not suited to teaching at all, especially teaching young children. I had many of those kinds of teachers growing up. They completely crush the spirit out of a child and the only thing the child learns is to hate learning, to hate school, etc.

 

Wow, that is scary. Unfortunately homeschooling is not a realistic option for us, and I am afraid of uprooting her to put her in the public school, away from everyone and everything she knows. With her history it would just be asking for more trouble.

 

I agree that this teacher has shown herself to be unprofessional and unhelpful in several ways. She is in a very strong position with the school, though (being the pastor's wife). I think we just have to be strong and get through the next six months. I will give extra attention to making sure my daughter knows she's bright and capable. I do think she'll continue to improve and maybe get the teacher off her back eventually.

[kubiac]

I know this is true. My daughter spent a couple years in a public high school and could really skate on work once she got the reputation as one of the really smart ones. So I'm sure it works the other way too.

 

This. I got away with murder in high school because I was overachieving and overcommitted and had a reputation as an overall passionate and enthusiastic student.

 

I literally slept through (as in, passed out on my textbook, probably snoring) through AP World History and AP Calculus, and those teachers never batted an eyelash. I believe I all but flunked calculus, but the merciful teacher (blessings on her head) gave me a mercy C so as to not dash my college admissions hopes, and the World History teacher thought I was the cat's meow. FWIW, I did get a 5 on the exam. I've often wondered what those teachers were really thinking about the whole situation, if they were thinking about it at all. As an adult, I suspect they appreciated being able to remove me from their ledger of "problems" and that was enough to qualify me for some leeway.

 

ANYWAY, I found that this attitude that the gifted or accelerated deserved the benefit of the doubt was pervasive through high school, and probably before that. Meanwhile, my learning disabled and "challenging" brother was in trouble for pretty much the duration of his education at the same school, even though he was by and large a fairly nice and non-disruptive kid.

[hm2009]

THis happend to us last year....

One day dd brought a bunch of graded papers home including a few other kids' work too...When I compared their work I was shocked by the way the teacher graded them. One of the kids was had a very neat and mature writing had everything marked right - 100% when she clearly had 2 incorrect answers--not spelling mistakes but totally incorrect answers. An other kid had made spelling errors and the teacher caught it at every error. Later dd told me that the one with 100 % was in her tag class too....So I don't know if its the TAG or neat writing that made the teacher overlook the errors.

[Lena1967]

I share the previous posters' view about this teacher being "out to get" your dd. She is probably being not capable of being neutral even if she tried.

 

But I was surprised to hear that they are getting letter grades and number grades in first grade. I guess that is because it is a private school? Our school district just replaced the letter grades with Outstanding, Proficient, Needs improvement, or something along those lines, for all of elementary school. But even before that change, I don't think K-2nd got letter grades.

[laf919]

I know this is a few days old, but wanted to share my story. I was public-schooled, not private, and had a great experience overall. Except for 3rd grade. When I had a teacher who was emotionally abusive. It destroyed my love of school and learning and I am forever grateful for an understanding principal who transferred me out of his class and wonderful 4th and 5th grade teachers who worked so hard to rebuild my confidence and joy in learning. I may be overreacting due to my experience, but I think this environment is toxic to your daughters. Both of them are being affected. And if I were you, I would leave. No matter what. Your precious daughters are too young to have to cope with immature adults like this teacher.

[LucyStoner]

My child was not labelled as dumb in 1st grade but he was certainly labelled and typecast by the teacher in extremely negative ways. He's now 9.5. I can not stress enough the lasting impact of that 1st grade year on him. Frankly, I would not be optimistic about her getting through the next 6 months without some lingering consequences to her confidence and fondness for school. Biased, unprofessional and caustic teachers like this really can do some serious damage to kids. If public school and homeschool are out, how about a different church or private school?

 

Regardless of her position as the pastor's wife, I would definitely not stay silent and just take the tough it out approach. Hindsight being 20-20, I should have make a bigger stand with my son's school in the 1st grade or taken him out sooner than I did (essentially the end of the year.) If she doesn't respond well or change her grading habits based on your questions and feedback, you need to talk to the head of school.