Melatonin for kids? How to I get dd to sleep??

[TKDmom]

I'm starting to feel a little desperate. My dd3 is STILL not sleeping through the night. She never has. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have had a full night's sleep since she was born. She comes into my bed several times a night. I'm too tired to notice when or how many times any more. I used to get up and take her right back to bed, sitting in her room until she fell asleep. Now I don't wake up until she wriggles and kicks me awake. Eventually I wake up enough to take her back to bed, but she never stays in her own bed for long. I've tried putting dd11 in bed with her, so she has a nice warm body to snuggle with, but dd11 is a pretty wriggly sleeper too, and I think dd3 gets pushed out of bed and comes to see me even more. :001_rolleyes:

 

Over the last few weeks, it's been harder and harder to get her to sleep at night, too. It's 11:15pm and she's still awake in her bed. We put the kids to bed 2 hours ago. She's laying quietly now, so I think she will settle down and fall asleep within the next few minutes. Last Friday, I managed to keep her from taking a nap. She fell asleep at 7:30, only to wake up just before 9 and stay up for another 2 hours. :banghead:

 

I need to break this cycle somehow. What has worked for you? I've seen people post about melatonin--is it safe and effective for kids? Should I talk to her pediatrician before I gave her a supplement like that?

 

DD11 also has trouble turning off her brain and sleeping at night. I think they feed off each other's energy at bedtime, giggling and talking until late.

 

I had a conversation with another, unnamed adult in the family ;), and it's his opinion that I just need to have more structure for the kids, and wake them up earlier and structure their days more rigidly. Maybe he's right, but it's not going to happen when I'm getting 7 hours of non-continuous sleep every night. I dislike a lot of structure, and I just don't have the energy to have much will power right now... We have a fairly predictable bedtime routine--it's just later that he would like it to be--he often doesn't get home until 9pm, and I'd like the kids to have a chance to interact with him for at least a few minutes before bedtime. But the girls take so stinking long to fall asleep even after we've gone through all our bedtime routine.

 

Sorry for the ramble. It's late and I'm tired. What's worked for you to get your kids sleeping more easily?

[linguistmama]

Melatonin has saved my sanity here! My 7yo takes 1/4 mg before bed. She likes the sublinguals that come in orange or peppermint by Source Naturals. They are 1mg, but I cut the pill up because she doesn't need that much. She falls asleep quickly. I have heard that some children need to take it an hour before bedtime. I started it when a friend and a pediatrician recommended it so I felt very comfortable giving a small dose. It is a hormone and I hope that eventually dd will not need it anymore, but when desperate I would certainly give it to a child before I was able to see a doctor. I hope it works for you, little sleep for years on end is torture!

 

I'm starting to feel a little desperate. My dd3 is STILL not sleeping through the night. She never has. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have had a full night's sleep since she was born. She comes into my bed several times a night. I'm too tired to notice when or how many times any more. I used to get up and take her right back to bed, sitting in her room until she fell asleep. Now I don't wake up until she wriggles and kicks me awake. Eventually I wake up enough to take her back to bed, but she never stays in her own bed for long. I've tried putting dd11 in bed with her, so she has a nice warm body to snuggle with, but dd11 is a pretty wriggly sleeper too, and I think dd3 gets pushed out of bed and comes to see me even more. :001_rolleyes:

 

Over the last few weeks, it's been harder and harder to get her to sleep at night, too. It's 11:15pm and she's still awake in her bed. We put the kids to bed 2 hours ago. She's laying quietly now, so I think she will settle down and fall asleep within the next few minutes. Last Friday, I managed to keep her from taking a nap. She fell asleep at 7:30, only to wake up just before 9 and stay up for another 2 hours. :banghead:

 

I need to break this cycle somehow. What has worked for you? I've seen people post about melatonin--is it safe and effective for kids? Should I talk to her pediatrician before I gave her a supplement like that?

 

DD11 also has trouble turning off her brain and sleeping at night. I think they feed off each other's energy at bedtime, giggling and talking until late.

 

I had a conversation with another, unnamed adult in the family ;), and it's his opinion that I just need to have more structure for the kids, and wake them up earlier and structure their days more rigidly. Maybe he's right, but it's not going to happen when I'm getting 7 hours of non-continuous sleep every night. I dislike a lot of structure, and I just don't have the energy to have much will power right now... We have a fairly predictable bedtime routine--it's just later that he would like it to be--he often doesn't get home until 9pm, and I'd like the kids to have a chance to interact with him for at least a few minutes before bedtime. But the girls take so stinking long to fall asleep even after we've gone through all our bedtime routine.

 

Sorry for the ramble. It's late and I'm tired. What's worked for you to get your kids sleeping more easily?

[Mrs. Lilac]

We use the Source Naturals melatonin the poster above mentioned- we have an autistic child who is a terrible sleeper, and a daughter who, much like the OP's child, never could fall asleep at night. Have used for several years with great results and no negatives to report. My DD just takes the pill- for my DS we crush it in juice.

[three4me]

We were having similar issues with our DD at 3. The melatonin totally worked to break the cycle. She still gets it occasionally when she's having a hard time settling down. We went from having horrible bedtime tantrums and issues to a peaceful bedtime routine. It seriously was amazing! I will say that it doesn't necessarily help her sleep through the night better, but once she got in the habit of going to sleep nicely her sleeping better through the night followed. I think it's definitely worth a try. We buy .5mg chewable tablets at Trader Joe's.

[Mrs. Lilac]

Also- you may have to experiment with how much to give them and how long before bedtime- some kids it seems to take effect much more quickly. So don't be frustrated if your first few nights doing it aren't perfect, just tweak!

[elfgivas]

i had typed a lot and it disappeared.

 

i'm the one who has never slept thru the night. and dd#4 is just like me.

 

what my mom did that worked/helped, and what we do:

 

lots of outdoor activity, at least twice a day, in all weather. we aim for an hour each time. walking the dog works really well, bike riding, feeding chickens, skating, etc, etc, etc.

 

and we limit electronic media after dinner.

 

we also program the thermostat to help our bodies realize its time to sleep.

daytime is ~68. at night, it drops down to ~62. it starts to ramp back up at 5:30am, and by six everyone is awake without alarm clocks.

 

we do the same thing with light. lights go on in the morning, and out in the evening. there are no night-lights anywhere.

 

there is also an ADD link to not sleeping all night. i remember laying awake for hours each night as a child. often it was because i was thinking. they kept me in bed by playing musical theater soundtracks.... and it i got up they turned them off.

 

however, at age 3, sleeping all night may not be reasonable. but getting them to sleep on schedule is so worth it. i'd encourage you to build a basic daily framework, and run it without variation for 21 days, and see what happens.

 

good luck!

ann

 

a solid ritual/framework to hang our spontaneity on.

we get up at 6am. we eat breakfast at 7am. snack at 10am, lunch at noon, snack at 3, dinner at 6, bed at 9pm. (it was earlier when they were younger). the hour before bed is fairly ritualized.

 

we limit media until the sleep thing improves.

[Guest inoubliable]

No real advice, but :grouphug:

[TKDmom]

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

 

I needed to stay awake long enough to make sure I'm not alone in this :tongue_smilie:, and to hear some practical solutions to sleep on. But I need to go to bed myself now. :)

[Joker]

I have a dd who is a bad sleeper, but I've always been afraid to try melatonin since she had night terrors as a toddler. I've read it can cause bad nightmares and I never want to relive that time. For my dd, we make sure she has a schedule. It's the only thing that works. I'm not a schedule person either but it really does work for her.

[somo_chickenlady]

Dr Oz did a segment on melatonin the other day, and the "specialist" he was talking to said it should never be given to kids because it is a powerful hormone supplement (not an herb), and it should really only ever be taken for people that have a problem with differentiating between night and day, like people on night shift, those with jet lag, etc. He said it really isn't mean to be taken just to fall asleep, b/c more than likely it won't work the way you want it to and most people get desperate and end up taking way more than they should, and that it should never be taken for more than two weeks at a time.

 

I would do more like what Ann suggests, but if you do choose to use it, they said a grown adult should take no more than 1mg per night, and to actually start with .5mg. Any more is overdosing which can lead to bad side effects (bad dreams, hangover like feeling in the morning, etc) and can make sleep patterns worse, so keep that in mind. They said it should be taken 90 minutes before the intended bed time. Good luck!

[AK_Mom4]

To help you survive in the mean time, how about making her a little bed on the floor next to yours? That way she can come in and crawl into her little bed and be "near" you but not wake you completely up with squirming and wiggling. We did this for youngest DD for several months after she developed some sleep problems after being in the hospital.

[Hypatia.]

DS2 (2.5) is still a horrible sleeper. I've been trying melatonin (liquid) with him and while it does help him fall asleep he still wakes up multiple times during then night. Some nights he's up and ready to be in my bed by 10 pm, on good nights it will be closer to midnight. Then he squirms and (well, for lack of a better term) gropes me all night, he seems to need constant physical contact. #5 will be here in a little over a month and I was really hoping DS2 would sleep better by now.

[melissad2]

I think you have to break the cycle as her little internal alarm is somehow set to go off in the middle of the night. Does Benadryl makes her sleepy? My pediatrician suggested giving it 30 minutes before bedtime every night for two weeks to break the cycle. It worked for my 3yo who was waking multiple times a night :) and I didn't have to give it after the two weeks. Of course, ask your pediatrician before doing this ;)

[TKDmom]

To help you survive in the mean time, how about making her a little bed on the floor next to yours? That way she can come in and crawl into her little bed and be "near" you but not wake you completely up with squirming and wiggling. We did this for youngest DD for several months after she developed some sleep problems after being in the hospital.

 

 

I've done this with all my kids to keep them out of my bed. Eventually they realize that their bed is better than my floor. But it doesn't work with dd3! Argh. She usually cries hysterically if I try to put her on the floor. If I do manage to get her to sleep down there, she wakes up within a half hour, stands up and crawls into my bed--"I want you..." Then she proceeds to dig her little feet under my hip and twirl (yank) my hair. Sigh.

 

Last night was better. She only woke up twice, and she stayed in her bed crying for me. She told me she was scared, but didn't know why. I was able to cover her up, turn on some soft music, and she went right back to sleep. I feel like a real, live person today. ;)

 

She's still asleep, and probably will be for a couple more hours. She seems to sleep the most soundly after 5am. Dh is in favor of getting her up earlier in the morning. I know I should, but she will make life miserable for the rest of us if she doesn't get 11 hours of sleep.

[TKDmom]

I have a dd who is a bad sleeper, but I've always been afraid to try melatonin since she had night terrors as a toddler. I've read it can cause bad nightmares and I never want to relive that time. For my dd, we make sure she has a schedule. It's the only thing that works. I'm not a schedule person either but it really does work for her.

 

 

The night terror thing is one of my major concerns with melatonin. The way she wakes up scared at night makes me think it may not be a good choice for her.

[Chris in VA]

Have you tried a natural heating pad in her bed? I can't think of the proper term--like a rice sock that you heat up (sometimes barley hulls or other filling). You heat it in the microwave (not too hot) and then you can slip it into a furry/soft/whatever texture soothes case and dd can take it to bed. It's a warm lovey, and very soothing.

 

I'm sorry it's so hard for you!

[TKDmom]

I think you have to break the cycle as her little internal alarm is somehow set to go off in the middle of the night. Does Benadryl makes her sleepy? My pediatrician suggested giving it 30 minutes before bedtime every night for two weeks to break the cycle. It worked for my 3yo who was waking multiple times a night :) and I didn't have to give it after the two weeks. Of course, ask your pediatrician before doing this ;)

 

 

I've never tried Benadryl with her. I think they stopped recommending for children under 6 about the time she was born, and I'm too much a rule-follower to go against those recommendations. :rolleyes:

[anmom]

Dr Oz did a segment on melatonin the other day, and the "specialist" he was talking to said it should never be given to kids because it is a powerful hormone supplement (not an herb), and it should really only ever be taken for people that have a problem with differentiating between night and day, like people on night shift, those with jet lag, etc. He said it really isn't mean to be taken just to fall asleep, b/c more than likely it won't work the way you want it to and most people get desperate and end up taking way more than they should, and that it should never be taken for more than two weeks at a time.

 

I would do more like what Ann suggests, but if you do choose to use it, they said a grown adult should take no more than 1mg per night, and to actually start with .5mg. Any more is overdosing which can lead to bad si effects (bad dreams, hangover like feeling in the morning, etc) and can make sleep patterns worse, so keep that in mind. They said it should be taken 90 minutes before the intended bed time. Good luck!

 

 

I disagree with a lot of things Dr. Oz says. He also says its better to take vitamins than eat fruit and vegetables. Melatonin is something our body produces naturally to support healthy sleep. I have seen it work wonderfully as a supplement for children and adults. Like a previous poster stated, start with a small dose and give it a few days time. In the mean time, hang in there! Lack of sleep is not fun!

[TKDmom]

i had typed a lot and it disappeared.

 

i'm the one who has never slept thru the night. and dd#4 is just like me.

 

what my mom did that worked/helped, and what we do:

 

lots of outdoor activity, at least twice a day, in all weather. we aim for an hour each time. walking the dog works really well, bike riding, feeding chickens, skating, etc, etc, etc.

 

and we limit electronic media after dinner.

 

we also program the thermostat to help our bodies realize its time to sleep.

daytime is ~68. at night, it drops down to ~62. it starts to ramp back up at 5:30am, and by six everyone is awake without alarm clocks.

 

we do the same thing with light. lights go on in the morning, and out in the evening. there are no night-lights anywhere.

 

there is also an ADD link to not sleeping all night. i remember laying awake for hours each night as a child. often it was because i was thinking. they kept me in bed by playing musical theater soundtracks.... and it i got up they turned them off.

 

however, at age 3, sleeping all night may not be reasonable. but getting them to sleep on schedule is so worth it. i'd encourage you to build a basic daily framework, and run it without variation for 21 days, and see what happens.

 

good luck!

ann

 

a solid ritual/framework to hang our spontaneity on.

we get up at 6am. we eat breakfast at 7am. snack at 10am, lunch at noon, snack at 3, dinner at 6, bed at 9pm. (it was earlier when they were younger). the hour before bed is fairly ritualized.

 

we limit media until the sleep thing improves.

 

 

You've got so many great ideas. Thank you! I will be working on some of your ideas this month. My goal is to get her sleeping normally by January. Or at least get her going to bed at a reasonable hour.

 

I don't think ADD is an issue here, but I have read that gifted kids have the same inability to turn off their brains at night. Dd11 is definitely in the gifted range and complains that she can't get her brain to calm down at bedtime. And my two girls are like two peas in a pod--except one pea is much bigger than the other. :D

[TKDmom]

Have you tried a natural heating pad in her bed? I can't think of the proper term--like a rice sock that you heat up (sometimes barley hulls or other filling). You heat it in the microwave (not too hot) and then you can slip it into a furry/soft/whatever texture soothes case and dd can take it to bed. It's a warm lovey, and very soothing.

 

I'm sorry it's so hard for you!

 

That's a great idea! I've been thinking of trying to find a weighted blanket for her, but this might be better. I could make it a nice size for her to slip her feet under, instead of wriggling them under my hip.

[Ottakee]

We have used melatonin as needed for our girls since they were quite young--likely older toddlers. We did so under a doctor's suggestion and supervision. For my girls the primary, neurologist, endocrinologist, and psychiatrist all said it was safe and effective for MY girls.

 

It has been very helpful so it would be worth asking a doctor about it for use in your case.

[Joanne]

From a management standpoint, most kids (the overwhelming majority) THRIVE on structure.

 

If your dd has been like this since birth, I am wondering if she has other signs of dairy allergy? Disrupted/unregulated sleep patterns are common to kids with dairy issues.

[TKDmom]

From a management standpoint, most kids (the overwhelming majority) THRIVE on structure.

 

If your dd has been like this since birth, I am wondering if she has other signs of dairy allergy? Disrupted/unregulated sleep patterns are common to kids with dairy issues.

 

 

I'll have to look up the signs of dairy allergies, but I don't think she does. The child is addicted to cheese. I had her tested for some other foods that caused a rash around her face after eating, but they all came up negative. The allergist told me that food allergies don't normally cause sleep disturbances, but I could totally see how an upset tummy would make it hard to sleep.

[melissad2]

 

 

I've never tried Benadryl with her. I think they stopped recommending for children under 6 about the time she was born, and I'm too much a rule-follower to go against those recommendations. :rolleyes:

 

 

Yes, the recommendations have changed. However, our pediatrician gave us the proper dosing. ;)

[Joanne]

I'll have to look up the signs of dairy allergies, but I don't think she does. The child is addicted to cheese. I had her tested for some other foods that caused a rash around her face after eating, but they all came up negative. The allergist told me that food allergies don't normally cause sleep disturbances, but I could totally see how an upset tummy would make it hard to sleep.

 

 

Craving dairy is actually a sign of allergy. And I've not found allergists to be the greatest at understanding the food/behavior part of allergy. It is very common for dairy allergy to manifest as sleep disturbance, most often intermittent sleep with little REM.

 

Constipation, rage/anger, and behavior issues are also signs of dairy allergy.

[sbgrace]

My son has been taking .5 mg every night since he was 3.5 (he's nearly 9 now). It's made a huge difference for him. Several doctors (including neurology) suggested it. I had tried every single other thing with this child short behavioral therapy as there was no one near who specialized working with sleep issues. If there was I would have jumped on it though. Anyway, my son simply has a great difficulty turning off his mind and settling to sleep.

 

Melatonin is best for going to sleep. It's not so great for staying asleep. A tired child, though, often wakes more. They do have extended release melatonin which might help with staying asleep as well. Our issue has always been just the initial falling to sleep so I don't know how well extended release works in kids.

 

If you decide to try it use the lowest effective dose. Do not start at 3 mg (many of the OTC stuff is that strength). This is what we use as it comes in .5 mg but if you can get a 1 mg pill you could give a partial dose (capsule/dump and pour) or cut down a tablet.

[texasmel]

Magnesium deficiency can also cause insomnia. My son takes a powdered form called Calm. You mix it in warm water to dissolve but then it can be served cold if that suits the taste better. It comes in many flavors.

[TKDmom]

Craving dairy is actually a sign of allergy. And I've not found allergists to be the greatest at understanding the food/behavior part of allergy. It is very common for dairy allergy to manifest as sleep disturbance, most often intermittent sleep with little REM.

 

Constipation, rage/anger, and behavior issues are also signs of dairy allergy.

 

 

Hmmm, she does have rage/anger issues, but she is 3...

 

I'm think I went to the allergist because I was wondering if her sleep problems were related to soy. He tested her for soy, rice, and tomatoes, which she'd had some skin reactions to. I'm not sure if dairy even came up. Would you go back to the allergist to test for dairy, or would you just cut dairy out of her diet and see what happens?

 

I suppose I could just try cutting dairy for a couple weeks. She loves almond milk, so I can substitute that. I'd just have to keep the cheese out of her reach. And the butter, and ice cream...

[whitestavern]

Magnesium deficiency can also cause insomnia. My son takes a powdered form called Calm. You mix it in warm water to dissolve but then it can be served cold if that suits the taste better. It comes in many flavors.

 

 

 

I agree. Ds, dh and dh's dad all take it for sleep issues. We use the same brand.

[BlueTaelon]

Have you just considered co-sleeping? She's made it clear she wants the security of mommy at night. To me its odd that a 3 yr old would be sleeping in their own bed when they still need that comfort. They do eventually move to there own bed and if your only objection is "adult activities" then I'd say you have a rather dull life in that area lol. That said the Source Naturals Melatonin was a life saver for us! I buy it on Amazon for half what it is in the store.

[TKDmom]

Have you just considered co-sleeping? She's made it clear she wants the security of mommy at night. To me its odd that a 3 yr old would be sleeping in their own bed when they still need that comfort. They do eventually move to there own bed and if your only objection is "adult activities" then I'd say you have a rather dull life in that area lol. That said the Source Naturals Melatonin was a life saver for us! I buy it on Amazon for half what it is in the store.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to insinuate...but my real concern is that I am sleep deprived. I don't sleep well when she's in my bed, and I don't think she does either. She's very restless when she's in my bed and I'm constantly being kicked awake. I'd have no problem letting her snuggle up to me if she would let me sleep. Also, at the end of the day, I need time alone to decompress. I don't need a 3yo running around, clinging to me, and making demands when I'm ready to be "done" for the day.

[fairfarmhand]

I understand you not wanting in your bed. I am another who CANNOT sleep with a child in the bed with me, so you have my understanding and compassion.

 

I know you said that dad gets home late. Could you not shift everyone's sleep time routine to a bit later? What's wrong withsleeptime being from 10-9? One thing that I have had to work on is consistency. Having a set routine, get up time, go to bed time even on weekends. It really stunk for a while, since we were used to going to bed 3-4 hours later on Fridays and Saturdays and then sleeping in late on the weekends. But I found that the kids did better with the consistency of a routine even on the weekends. We do stay up a bit later, but the kids don't get more than an hour out of their normal routines even on weekends.

 

I've found that my kids don't do well going to sleep when they are sleep-deprived. They really struggle when they don't have that routine.

 

Can your dh help you out in this area at all?

[Laura Corin]

How much exercise does she get? Hobbes required at least an hour of really hard exercise each day (swimming, running at the playground, scooting on his tricycle..) to sleep well at night.

 

Laura

[Ellie]

 

Hmmm, she does have rage/anger issues, but she is 3...

 

I'm think I went to the allergist because I was wondering if her sleep problems were related to soy. He tested her for soy, rice, and tomatoes, which she'd had some skin reactions to. I'm not sure if dairy even came up. Would you go back to the allergist to test for dairy, or would you just cut dairy out of her diet and see what happens?

 

I suppose I could just try cutting dairy for a couple weeks. She loves almond milk, so I can substitute that. I'd just have to keep the cheese out of her reach. And the butter, and ice cream...

Not all 3yos have rage/anger issues. :-)

 

Sadly, not all allergists are up on the finer points of diary issues, which may or may not be actual *allergies.*

 

I'm with Joanne on this. Dairy allergies/lactose intolerance can cause all sorts of thngs you'd never imagine, including bedwetting (in younger children) and acne (in older people). And it can take *up to a month* for dairy to be completely out of the body's system. I'd figure on eliminating dairy for at least that long. I don't think there's an allergy test that can tell if your child's sleep issues are related to dairy; even if there were, the "cure" would be to eliminate dairy, so there you go. :-)