Joan in GE Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 What do you provide (besides room and board :-)) and what are your young people responsible for? Elizabeth got me thinking and curious about different people's outlook and reality about this - because of scheduling in high school and college...I know that I have become much more lenient over the years....Poor first born never escaped and the last - I hate to say (but am tending to think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction)... I'm also curious about changes over time - how you might have changed your requirements with different children....as well as just the variety of perceptions even if just starting the high school journey... 2nd btw, hehe, cell phones, gas, etc. in our culture have become sort of social rights rather than work tools. in the Punishment or Rewards thread.... What do your dc consider their 'rights' or what do you feel responsible to provide? And what do you and they consider their responsibilities towards themselves and the family? This can range from clothes, technology, courses, free time, to chores, cleaning their room, taxiing to activities, helping around the house even if not scheduled, - anything that people can think of....And what are your expectations when it comes to assistance from the child (really the 'young person' during high school and college)... For subsequent dc....We did have changes with weekday vs weekend and holiday times with dc living at home during university with very long commutes (@ 2 1/2 to 3 hrs/day) they basically didn't have any chores during the week...I think early on I was much more calculating - but then with more dc at home, there was much more to orchestrate....We provided a very cheap pay on use mobile phone when they had activities outside the house which would require coordination...But older ones had to get their own iPod (at college level) and dd doesn't own one...We provided a cheap laptop and they have upgraded in various ways....We buy some of their clothes (normally used except for undies and socks and hard to fit bodies - eg pants for very long legs)...... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I just have a minute to dash off a quick answer: I lived at home while attending university, and my parents considered studying my job. I put in 60+ hour weeks studying. I helped some with general household chores, but was not expected to contribute more than some basic assistance. I did have a scholarship, so did not need an allowance from my parents; they would have given me money for personal use had it been necessary. My high schooler: I consider her school work her job. She has a few little jobs for money (tutoring, and I pay her to tutor for my course as I can not, and would not, hire my own child formally; both kids work for DH and build computers, he pays them - for the same reason). I want their jobs to be relevant to their education. Our cultural background is that most teens back home do not have jobs in high school. Whoever is home helps a bit with running of the house on an as needed basis- school age and, if kid would go to college here, college student. I am happy to drive them to activities until they are old enough to drive themselves. More later... gotta run to class ETA- now that I have a moment: We give the kids an allowance that enables them to fund small items and occasional fun activities or buy lunch on campus. I pay for simple pre-paid cell phones that phone and text; if they want something fancier, they need to pay for it themselves. (We adults do not have anything fancier either). I pay for their classes and sports activities. I do not think that kids are entitled to anything, but I feel that it is reasonable to share the family finances that are available for such things. If we were in a more difficult financial situation, things would be different; since we can pay for these things, we gladly do. Our kids are learning financial responsibility by having money available; DD is very good at saving and managing money, DS is getting better, with still room for improvement - but then, he is only 13. I handle things pretty much the same way I grew up with. My parents were very generous within the family's financial means. I have not been spoiled and am very responsible with my finances, so I think whatever they did worked for me- it can work for my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Indeed Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Well, my son is 16 now. We buy his clothes unless there is something he wants that I wouldn't pay that price for :) . He has bought his own ipod, and iphone, and is expected to pay the bill. We cover his insurance, but he is expected to buy his own gas and vehicle maintenance (nothing major though). He works 3 days a week as an electrician's apprentice, and does his highschool load around that. He must keep up and maintain an A-B average or his working hours will be cut. Of course we provide meals, but if he wants to eat lunch out or whatever he buys. His jobs at home have gone down as he works more outside the home, but he still cleans the chicken coop, and does yard maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 My son just turned 15 and his job is his education right now. We are also fairly broke, which is a change from a few years ago. He earns an allowance, but we don't have the opportunity for him to earn extra money right now. He's had an allowance since he could walk and has good money management skills. However, he also has some expensive wants. When my dh was a self-employed carpenter he could go to work with him on occasion and earn money. Now that dh has a regular job that is not possible. We'll be looking into money making opportunities for him in the next year. He has a lot of tech toys, a cell phone, multiple computers, but we don't have a lot of money invested in those. He does. We pay the $10.00 for his cell phone to be our family plan, but we don't have land line phones so we feel that's a necessity. He paid for his first phone from his own money and recently upgraded to an older iPhone for free. One computer was a hand me down, the other a gift from a relative. He's doesn't waste his own money, but we've discussed his need to learn car maintenance skills and continue learning construction/handyman skills. This is a kid that will spend all of his disposable income on computer stuff or art supplies. He's going to have to know to do minor repairs on car and home. That is part of our philosophy, see the person ds is and try to help him find his way in the adult world. Not try to mold him to what our perception of adulthood is. As far as responsibilities, he does weekly chores and helps with every dinner and does yard maintenance. He keeps his room pretty clean, he's a minimalist when it comes to decor. He has a mini-fridge in his room (a gift from my parents) which really helps with the teen munchies. We provide his clothing, which is minimal right now. We have two cars (only one is working right now). The working car is slated to be the car we share. At some point the goal is to give him the car and I get a different one. We'll see how that goes. He's eligible for his permit already. I want him to learn to drive earlier than later as I see value in experience. He's a very cautious child and we he will need to travel interstates while living here, so I want him to get comfortable in town driving. We will probably wait until spring as he doesn't want to learn in the winter. At this point we have no money for college. He will probably qualify for grants and loans and hopefully some scholarships. He is welcome to live at home and attend one of the local colleges. However, they don't offer the major or classes he wants, so he really wants to go away for school. Afterward, he wants to live internationally and dh and I agree that he is welcome to live at home while he prepares to do that. Dh and I have an open door policy, we want ds to have a safe place to land should he ever need it. Our parents did the same for us and emotionally it was very helpful. As I write all this, I will also add that we've been through some major life challenges in the last few years. Ds has been level-headed and responsible through all of them. He has "stuff" because he knows how to save money, ask for what he wants, and never takes it for granted. Aside from holding parental authority and veto power, he has an active voice in our family, but he was born mature and our interaction with him reflects that. Now it's Monday and in a few minutes I have to make sure he's waking up. Neither one of us likes Monday or mornings, so I may have to rethink the mature remark. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We don't have a home phone, so we pay for all the kids to have cell phones. We got our 19yo who is at college an iphone at the same we got ours, but the 14yo and 17yo both have the "free" smartphone. It doesn't have the added on smartphone fee and was free with a 2-year contract. We will be replacing both of their phones with iphones at the end of the 2 years, but it will be the cheapest iphone, not the current generation. We don't intend to replace any of the other phones. The 19yo is living in a private apartment on campus (4 hours away). She really didn't do well with roommates at all. Her scholarship covers tuition and has a stipend towards housing. The scholarship is worth more than she could possibly hope to earn, so the priority is on maintaining that scholarship. It requires a 3.0 GPA and a minimum of 15 unique (not repeated) credit hours each semester. We are paying for the rest of her housing cost and for her groceries and gas. She just has to maintain her scholarship. She needs to get a part-time job this summer. The 17yo actually has two very part-time jobs. She and her 14yo sister have been taking care of a neighbor's dogs at lunchtime for the past three years. They also occasionally go over in the evening when the owner has to work late. They are only over there for 30 minutes each day. She also does childcare at the Jazzercise one morning each week for 2.5 hours. She is actually substituting for somebody else this morning. My 14yo just has the one part-time job, taking care of a neighbor's dogs at lunchtime. There are 3 dogs, so it really does help when they are both able to go. The 17yo is unable to go on Mondays and Wednesdays because of her cc classes, so she goes alone those times. She will be doing the job entirely on her own next year when her sister goes to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 According to my oldest two-their rights are basically food, shelter, clothing, love, and basic education. Their responsibilities are to care for themselves, help at home, help with siblings, do their school work. (My son feels his responsibilities fall in line with the Boy Scout Law.) They both admit that neither of them live up to this standard as well as they would like. I don't feel they have a right to technology, designer clothes, or any luxery that their parents provide. That said--there are certain realities in the modern world. For example, they do need a certain amount of experience with a computer in order to perform work or university level student tasks successfully. That may not demand their own laptop but it does demand screen time. Also, there are fewer payphones in the world and if I am sending them to activities on their own they may need use of a cell phone to be in contact with home (I consider this a safety issue in today's world). Do they need an iPhone with internet connection and the ability to text their friends 24/7? No. And, if we agree that they may participate in outside activities then we need to help provide transport and equipment. Like regentrude we consider education to be our kids' primary job. That comes before other employment. Our lives don't happen to provide our children outlets for normal teen employment and we recognize that fact. Therefore, they are many fun and optional activities that we may fund for our kids as they exceed costs that could reasonably be expected to be paid for from pocket money. However, there are many expectations for their participation in chores around the house, how the assist other family members, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 My oldest started community college full time just before turning 16. We got her a laptop to use at school and (after a stint on a prepaid) got her a cell phone. We have a basic family plan with no data, so she only uses it as a phone and so it only costs us $10 a month. We gave her a car to use and we pay insurance on it. However, she got a ticket 2 mo ago for not having gotten her inspection, and she was trying to blame me and i made it clear that we've been through this several times and she needs to learn to watch for the inspection - she paid that ticket. she and I had a really horrible relationship, but she was working super hard at her school work - full course at community college plus 2 high school classes and getting good grades, and then she had a breakdown and then she got a chronic ilness (fibromyalgia). then she turned 18 and moved out, came, back, and had spent years unsuccessfully looking for a job ... finally got a job at staples just before she started at university, but had to quit as they wouldnt cut back her hours and she was getting sick again. I dont make her do chores - i suggest some and sometimes she will, but if she says she feels sick or has too much school work to do, i dont want to push it. We dont give her spending money any more, we are paying 1/3 of her college and so is my mom, and she has some money from when she worked and that my mom had put in to an account for her when she was a baby. but she wants to move out and we keep making it clear we dont have any money to contribute to that my 16 yo does not have a phone yet. last xmas BOTH boys had been saving up thier allowance and we matched funds to get them new PCs. they also use allowance (and lawn mowing for the teen) to feed their video game habit. We will probably get a netbook for the teen if he takes a community college class next year, for taking notes (he has handwriting issues). If dd leaves, he will get her car, but she needs it to commute to school. money is really tight so its hard to give them much. the boys do chores as part of school, and the teen has been walking the dog due to my knee injury (and the dog hates dh) it varies by kid . . . nothing hard and fast . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 My high schooler has the right to have his wishes listened to respectfully and granted unless there's a good reason why not. He gets room, board, a cheap phone (for our convenience - so that we can contact him when his or our plans change) and lots of cuddles. We pay for his transportation (whether for school or social activity) either driving him or paying his bus fare. He gets £5 a week in pocket money to spend as he likes. He can earn extra for (occasional) jobs around the garden. He has no regular chores from Monday to Friday - school work is his work. On Saturday and Sunday he is responsible for sorting clean clothes, keeping his bedroom clean and tidy, bringing in wood, (with his brother) cleaning the kitchen and any other chores that we assign. The rest of the weekend is his to do homework and relax. We buy him basic clothing: if there's something more fancy, he asks for it for a Christmas or birthday present. He shares a computer with his brother but we limit screen time. We take him to activities when it is convenient for us, but often ask him to take the bus. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 My high schooler has the right to have his wishes listened to respectfully and granted unless there's a good reason why not. He gets room, board, a cheap phone (for our convenience - so that we can contact him when his or our plans change) and lots of cuddles. We pay for his transportation (whether for school or social activity) either driving him or paying his bus fare. He gets £5 a week in pocket money to spend as he likes. He can earn extra for (occasional) jobs around the garden. He has no regular chores from Monday to Friday - school work is his work. On Saturday and Sunday he is responsible for sorting clean clothes, keeping his bedroom clean and tidy, bringing in wood, (with his brother) cleaning the kitchen and any other chores that we assign. The rest of the weekend is his to do homework and relax. We buy him basic clothing: if there's something more fancy, he asks for it for a Christmas or birthday present. He shares a computer with his brother but we limit screen time. We take him to activities when it is convenient for us, but often ask him to take the bus. Laura This describes us in a nutshell. We have high expectations in our homeschooling and when we add to that their 4-H projects plus volunteerism and competitive rocketry, this equals a full time job plus. They do have some things that they help with M-F...they take turns helping me with dishes and sweeping. They are learning how to do laundry though I still do quite a bit for them because it isn't cost effective or environmentally friendly to run a load for just a handful of items they might need. But, I do keep the chores to a very reasonable minimum because of how much school work I require. On the weekends, they have other things they help with and especially alongside DH. He needed to run some new tubing upstairs for the heating system in their bedrooms and so they helped him put the hole in the wall, run the tubing, hook it up to the boiler, and then patch the hole. I think that learning to do basic home repairs is an excellent life skill and am glad they assisted. Basically, we pay for everything. However, that's within reason. I won't pay for expensive high-end clothes. If they have electronic devices it's because they saved gift money or they took a house sitting job and earned it. Sometimes dh will give them something that is still working but he is upgrading for work. They each have old laptops due to his frequent need to upgrade and his employer doesn't want the old models back. We pay for travel and educational experiences. We tend not to pay for a lot of expensive fun-fun type things like putt-putt golf, sporting events, and the like. They have to save for those. We try to have fun at home and keep it cheap. They are becoming great euchre players! We foot the bill for transportation and we do not have public transport options in our rural area so I'm the chauffeur. While it would be convenient to let them be licensed at 18, the auto insurance is OUT OF SIGHT for minors. So, we do not allow them to license until 18 when it is half the cost to add them to our policy. If they are in college full time, we will still carry them on our policy. However, if they go directly into the work force, they'll be expected to pay their car insurance. With dd, we kept her as long as we could on our policy and let her pay her portion because it was much cheaper for her. When I was in high school and college, my parents considered getting an education to be my full time job. I'm grateful for that because I never would have made it as a piano performance major if I had been required to get a part-time job. Every.single.music.major. I ever encountered that tried to work their way through school quit the major. It's just not possible. 18 credit hours per semester, four hours per day six days per week required in the practice room, plus coursework, plus HOURS in performance groups...the requirements were too steep. My average work week was 75 -80 hours. How I would have worked another 20 and kept my scholarship which required a 3.5 gpa, I do not know. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thank you everyone who has posted so far! This is a little window into how other people handle these situations, family dynamics, and I see how it varies depending on location, direction of young person, family finances, etc....which is expected.... So far it seems like young people are expected to do more help at home than here in CH, besides usually having some kind of paying job even if very small which is also rare here (or be involved somehow in understanding the family finances)...and drive more. :-) And it seems important to know when to give slack.... but was not expected to contribute more than some basic assistance. Whoever is home helps a bit with running of the house on an as needed basis- school age and, if kid would go to college here, college student. I am happy to drive them to activities until they are old enough to drive themselves. I handle things pretty much the same way I grew up with. My parents were very generous within the family's financial means. I have not been spoiled and am very responsible with my finances, so I think whatever they did worked for me- it can work for my kids. Just curious, regentrude, about 'basic responsibilities'....I've been told that lots of German guys don't know how to cook but haven't heard about German young women - did you learn how to cook when young or when you were on your own? In CH the driving age is 18 yo unless you can afford a car that is set to go only 30 mph max (therefore rich family)- what age do you plan to teach yours? I think I'm going to start polls on the General Board about how many children people have and how many are being home educated....I find it so much more simple now that there is only one at home (and one at school all day). Before when I had two, the other two were still living at home and that meant a lot more happening, the house was dirtier, more food to cook (as in MUCH more food to cook) etc. He works 3 days a week as an electrician's apprentice, and does his highschool load around that. This is great - I hardly ever hear of apprentices in the US (there are serious programs here)....is this run by the state or did you find someone for him? We are also fairly broke, which is a change from a few years ago.....That is part of our philosophy, see the person ds is and try to help him find his way in the adult world. As far as responsibilities, he does weekly chores and helps with every dinner and does yard maintenance. .... dh and I agree that he is welcome to live at home while he prepares to do that. Dh and I have an open door policy, we want ds to have a safe place to land should he ever need it. Our parents did the same for us and emotionally it was very helpful. Aside from holding parental authority and veto power, he has an active voice in our family, but he was born mature and our interaction with him reflects that. Do you think these underlined things are due to being an only child (if I've figured out correctly that he is the only one)? We don't have a home phone, so we pay for all the kids to have cell phones. The scholarship is worth more than she could possibly hope to earn, so the priority is on maintaining that scholarship. This is really new to me that families wouldn't have a fixed line....No radiation to the brain worries any more? Students do this here - but not families in my experience so far...wondering how common that is in the US now.... I can certainly understand the cost effectiveness of maintaining the scholarship.... According to my oldest two-their rights are basically food, shelter, clothing, love, and basic education. Their responsibilities are to care for themselves, help at home, help with siblings, do their school work. (My son feels his responsibilities fall in line with the Boy Scout Law.) They both admit that neither of them live up to this standard as well as they would like. I don't feel they have a right to technology, designer clothes, or any luxery that their parents provide. That said--there are certain realities in the modern world. Like regentrude we consider education to be our kids' primary job. That comes before other employment. The part about 'love' made me think I've misnamed this thread; it sounds too commercial somehow - like we're part of a business which actually is not at all how I think of a family or how people work and live together.......anyone have any suggestions? then she had a breakdown and then she got a chronic ilness (fibromyalgia). I dont make her do chores - i suggest some and sometimes she will, but if she says she feels sick or has too much school work to do, i dont want to push it. money is really tight so its hard to give them much. the boys do chores as part of school, and the teen has been walking the dog due to my knee injury (and the dog hates dh) it varies by kid . . . nothing hard and fast . . . I can see how chronic illness really changes expectations and provisions....Probably very difficult to know when to give in and when not to (for things not as clear as speeding tickets I mean) While it doesn't always work that way - if money is tight in childhood - young people can grow up with fewer expectations and therefore end up as happier adults....I see this comparing my dc to those of my sister who have had less...... My high schooler has the right to have his wishes listened to respectfully and granted unless there's a good reason why not. He gets room, board, a cheap phone (for our convenience - so that we can contact him when his or our plans change) and lots of cuddles. He has no regular chores from Monday to Friday - school work is his work. On Saturday and Sunday he is responsible for sorting clean clothes, keeping his bedroom clean and tidy, bringing in wood, (with his brother) cleaning the kitchen and any other chores that we assign. The rest of the weekend is his to do homework and relax. Cuddles :-) Curious if this is typical about not helping during the week in the UK? But, I do keep the chores to a very reasonable minimum because of how much school work I require. On the weekends, they have other things they help with and especially alongside DH. Basically, we pay for everything. ..... We try to have fun at home and keep it cheap. They are becoming great euchre players! .... When I was in high school and college, my parents considered getting an education to be my full time job. ..... How I would have worked another 20 and kept my scholarship which required a 3.5 gpa, I do not know. It does sound like some majors are much more time consuming...I can't say that I really earned that much money in college working for minimum wage - in retrospect it was more of a distraction and a nice idea rather than a real benefit....But sometimes it might be the only way people can get through - though these days with tuition the price it is, I don't know how people can afford going in the US (generally speaking) I tended to view it more as works and perks. You live here, you share the work. You share the work, you share the perks. It's more of a group thing in our family. The work was whatever it took to maintain the house, property, and possessions (cars, equipment, etc.), and their schoolwork. The perks were things like the free time to pursue their personal interests, supplies for those interests, transportation when needed, car trips for fun and education, etc. Our kids have always known that they were welcome to live at home as long as they wanted to stay here. And they can return whenever they want, too. But they also know that they will always be required to share in the work required to keep the place running smoothly whenever they live here. That's non-negotiable. .... When they are home for weekends and holidays (like last week), it's chores as usual. .... If anything, our older dc had fewer chores when they were younger, just because I hadn't come up with a good system yet and we were out of the house more back then (ds's sports). The younger kids probably don't even remember what it was like NOT having chores since they were small when we quit all sports, began WTM, and I came up with a good chore system. So there was only a slight change for the different aged kids when they were young. As far as money and jobs, we never required them to work jobs. We're a 45-minute drive from town, so any money they could have made would have been eaten up by the costs of getting there. It was cheaper to stay home and we had way too much school to get through. 4 of them have worked the polls for a while now, but that's infrequent and classified as volunteer work since the pay is miniscule. The 2 in college thought about doing work-study, but we told them to get used to the college work first. They knew we weren't rich (my dh is a very vocal penny-pincher, iykwim), so their requests were never anything we couldn't/wouldn't buy for them. That might also be because they were involved in the money decisions for the family as a whole, so they knew money, in fact, did not grow on trees around here. ;) I guess, to summarize all this rambling, we tend to view things more in the direction of the Asian woman who used to post quite a bit on the boards. (Haven't seen her in a while.) We all help each other out in any way we can whenever any one of us needs something. It works all ways with everyone who lives here. When they marry (or leave home), the dc will transfer those things over to the spouse and they will make their own decisions, involving us as little or as much as they want. Sounds like you made some serious changes when you started the WTM...The way your family functions sounds - fluid somehow.... What was the board name of the Asian lady? It's nice to read about home ed family situations - how people are making things work and helping their young people learn to make wise choices and become responsible..... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thank you everyone who has posted so far! Just curious, regentrude, about 'basic responsibilities'....I've been told that lots of German guys don't know how to cook but haven't heard about German young women - did you learn how to cook when young or when you were on your own? I never "learned" how to cook - I just started experimenting as a teen, and started cooking for real when I moved out. I love it and am rather good at it- but was not taught in any systematic way. We just helped in the kitchen, watched Grandma make dishes, helped bake... My DD is a fantastic cook and baker and a complete foodie; she just watches videos online and learns about dishes and cooking techniques. I don't teach her. I do make sure my son learns the basics and can prepare himself a few meals. I wonder if your observation may not have something to do with the fact that Germans do not cook every day anyway; if you work, you eat your warm mid day meal in the cafeteria at work, and have a sandwich for your evening meal - so many families cook on weekends only. But several of my male friends ARE able to cook. In CH the driving age is 18 yo unless you can afford a car that is set to go only 30 mph max (therefore rich family)- what age do you plan to teach yours? We live in rural MO, no public transportation - so my DD got her permit at age 15, has been driving already on mountain roads and interstates and will be prepared for her license on her 16th birthday. That does not mean that the teaching period is over; she will still have things to learn - but it means that she can then independently drive in town and surrounding area. In Germany, most teens do nto even get their license at 18, because it is not necessary; I have quite a few friends there who do not own cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Do you think these underlined things are due to being an only child (if I've figured out correctly that he is the only one)? Joan I think his maturity is more a product of personality than parenting. We traveled and did a lot when he was younger. He's also had the influence of grandparents, which is very important to him. He has many similar personality traits to dh and me, so I knew how to approach him. It could be a combination of both, I guess. We've never shielded him from some of the hard truths of our lives, but we knew he could handle it. Because he understands, we share more than some parents might, or some kids might be able to handle. It's a cycle, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 My kids are just entering this level, but aside from the basics of food, shelter, basic clothing etc I will provide rides to and from work and extra currics until such time as they can afford to buy their own car and the insurance, gas etc needed to use it and I will pay for extracurrics within my budget. If they want a cell phone it is up to them to work to pay for it, I don't even have a cell phone I am not paying for one for my teen. They are to cover all their extras on their own, so if they want to go out with friends, or different clothes that are outside my budget, or to a workshop or camp that I can not afford they are to cover it themselves. As long as they can maintian their grades they will work in high school, particularily if they continue homeschooling as they have the flexibility. Ds14 has a job now working 4-12 hours a week. That still gives him time for school, and cadets. He works in a town 20 minutes away, I drive him there, come home then go back to get him at the end of the shift and home again. He is to pitch in to help offset the cost of gas I am spending but he is not going to be paying even 1/2 of the cost of gas at this stage. He can get his driving permit at 16, and once I am confident with his driving, if he is using my car to go to and from work etc he will be responsible for replacing all the gas he used. Not at only 14. They are still expected to complete chores at home when asked, and eventually when not asked. They are still expected to help out with the younger kids when asked. The requirements will be pretty much the same when they hit college, if they attend in the next town they will live at home with the same things being covered by me. If they attend in the big city, they will be given free room and board by either the grandparents, or aunt/uncle, but they will be expected to maintain their grades, help around the house, and work to earn their own pocket money, pay for cell phone, vehicle or bus pass etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 During the school year, my children's studies are their full-time jobs. Both of my boys have done grass cutting and snow shoveling and during the summer, they are lifeguards. I had hoped ds16 could have picked up a couple hours a week life-guarding at the local Y (which is walking distance from his college classes), but they wanted a minimum 15 hours a week. With his academic work, he just doesn't have that kind of time. Dd12 has a regular babysitting job (2-4 hours a week) that fell into her lap, but she has more time for things like that (and some of that is at night.) We provide food, clothing (nothing terribly expensive - just basics), basic cell phones for safety purposes, extra-curriculars (Karate for my boys and rock climbing for dd) which meet goals I have for them. Other than the main computer and a netbook (that are shared and used for schoolwork and online classes), any electronics have been gifts or purchased with their own money. For ds19 in college, his job is his schoolwork. LIke was mentioned before, maintaining his scholarship and keeping grades good enough to get paid to go to grad school far outpaces anything he could earn. I didn't push him to pick up any lifeguarding hours this fall as it was his first semester away, but I did encourage him to look into it for the next semester. He has a fancier phone (the phone itself was a gift) and we pay for the data plan but it is a more basic plan. This is his calendar, phone, music player, multifunction tool. I help purchase 4H materials or they buy them with money earned or gifts. I have to say that my kids are not very materialistic. They rarely ask for stuff. Until my kids are 16, I have an allowance for them (paid monthly because I just can't get my act together to have the appropriate amounts of cash on hand on a weekly basis.) However, my rule was they had to ask for it (and it was on the calendar) in time for me to get cash. They never asked. At home, the kids have regular chores - mostly to do with keeping the kitchen clean, assist with meal prep and quick cleaning for our various club meetings we host (vacuum, wipe down bathrooms, etc) and dog care. I don't follow a formal schedule with this (the various charts have been displayed unused on the fridge because I wasn't following up,) but they help as needed. While they don't always remember to do them independently, they rarely complain. I try to be considerate of their schedules and ask for the same consideration. I am happy to drive them to activities until they can drive themselves. In return, the drivers are expected to do some chauffeuring and errand running. We have them get their permits at 15, licenses at 16 - mostly because I want them to get lots of driving experience while under our supervision. So, by the time they are 18, they will have both maturity AND experience. If my kids had opportunities to earn lots of $$ during the summer, and had busy social lives where they would need the car more often, I would require them to contribute toward insurance. But, with the recession, it is very difficult for teens to get jobs around here because the typical teen jobs are mostly taken by adults who are under employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Circumstances may dictate this, I think. We have one child and can afford to contribute generously to his education. His job right now is to be a student and maintain his scholarship. His job in high school was to be a student but also a minor contributor to this household and our community. We volunteer as a family with a bird rehabber. During high school and during my son's school breaks when he is at home, I expect him to help out some with household stuff and contribute some volunteer time. Fortunately for us, my son is a minimalist. He does not want designer clothes. His wardrobe is minimal and that is the way he prefers it. He has an antique pay-as-you-go phone. At one point I offered to upgrade it. No thank you. His first computer was given to him by the neighbor, a virus filled Dell. He and my husband had to strip it down, reload it, replace the graphics card, etc.it was a good learning experience for an 8th grader. In high school we gave him a laptop that he continues to use in college. My son inherited a bit of money that paid for his travels to an archaeological field school in Britain last summer. He took his backpack that he has used for years and slept in my husband's old backpacking tent that dated back to his college days. After seven weeks in the rain, the decades old tent gave out. I think we'll buy The Boy a new one for his birthday. His pack is being replaced at Christmas. He needs something to hold all of his camping gear, his minimal clothing and his archaeological tools and books. We had not thought of the latter when we bought him a pack for backpacking trips at age 12. (Our family ethos seems to be to make do and use something until it dies. Occasionally we recognize that something has outgrown its usefulness for other reasons.) Looking back to high school, 4-H was an important part of my son's life. Part of his "job", I suppose. He earned many 4-H bucks which in turn paid for his ski trips and teen retreats. He also earned cash prizes that he banked for college. My son uses his savings and summer earnings to pay for books. He also covers his pocket money which admittedly is minimal. My son's college is all inclusive--meals, college bucks for snacks at the college store, printing. He has few outside expenses. My son's former roommate had to work many hours during the summer and over breaks to support his technology habit. This reminds me of one of my former students. She was missing class. Why? Because of work. "Why do you need to work so much?" I asked. "To pay for my car." "Why do you need a car?" "To get to work." Alrighty then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Indeed Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Here in Texas at 16 you can get an "apprentice license" through the state for doing electrical work. You must work with a master electrician. The opportunity to do this came from a man in our church who approached my son and wanted to know if he were interested. In 2 years (and so many hours on the job) he will be able to take a test to get what is called his Journeymans license. It is a great opportunity, he is learning quite a bit. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 During high school -- Expectations -- 1) Excel academically. God gave our kids brains; we expect them to make good use of them! 2) Be involved in our church or one of their choice -- at whatever doing whatever seems to be right for the kid and the church in question. 3) Help out around the house when asked. We move away from assigned chores in high school just because I have so much more free time than the kids do, and they have already learned the basics of keeping a house running. 4) Be involved in the community -- volunteering, being a member, whatever. But we expect involvement in the outer world beyond our home. What we provide -- 1) A loving home, lots of food, some family entertainment, and an open house for whatever friend wants to drop by. 2) Cell phone -- it's so much cheaper to do it on a family plan! Our older kids didn't have cell phones until they had their licenses, but our youngest has a medical condition that sort of requires a cell phone for parental peace of mind. (For a while, our 12yo had a cell phone and the 15yo didn't!) 3) A car when/if possible, and gas for volunteer work or CC classes or church activities. If the kids start running up mileage socializing or working at a paying job, they pay for gas. Colege -- Expectations for our young adults -- 1) Keep the scholarship! 2) Pay for everything that isn't room & board. Dh and I do cover room and board, but our kids thankfully had jobs in high school so had money going in. Having a job at college is great, but only if it doesn't hurt the academics. 3) We love the idea of interesting summer internships, but we don't pay for them. If a kid wants a neat non-paying summer experience, he has to find grant money for it. 4) Go to church while at college. This is an expectation, and when the kid is at a college that is remote, we will provide a car so that the kid can get to church. But church attendance is expected. What we provide -- 1) Costs to and from home. Even for our otherwise independent 24yo, we pay all costs associated with coming home. We don't want finances to determine when/if our kids come home for a visit. 2) Support via email and phone calls. 3) Room and board And if a kid decides to buy a 28 foot boat during his freshman year, like ds2 has done, we approve on condition we are not at all involved financially, legally, or in any other way! (Yes, he owns the boat -- and dh and I still do not have any boat other than kayaks. Something is wrong with this picture!) :confused1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 You all have given me more aspects of this to think about but I have time to write only one question at the moment - I see that I need a paradigm shift..... I'd been locked into the idea of 'assigned' work - that was how I tried to keep things fair when there were 4 kids at home all the time....I think also to keep my sanity and not feel responsible for everything.... But then if there are constantly shifting schedules of people traveling or gone for one reason or another it is impossible to have a rigid system...For me now during the summer when more people are home or over the holidays.. So my question is: If you don't have assigned work - how do you try to make sure one isn't skipping out and another doing too much without lots of micromanagement? (I realize there are periods where one will simply not be able to contribute due to being gone most of the day (eg 5AM to 6PM) but when it is just a temporary situation..) Do yours automatically think of helping more the next day if they were gone the previous day? Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I'm with most who consider studying my kids main job. When in high school they help out with the family chores as we do them. If they are needing time to study they are exempt from what we are doing if there are time constraints. If there are no time constraints, they help. They also are "used" to help dad when he has fieldwork he needs to do for his Engineering job. They do not get paid regularly, but we pay for many of their activities as part of the "family pot." They do not have their own cars, cell phones or computers, but get to use the family owned versions when they need them. When they go to college they no longer have family chores, so they get part time jobs to help pay for college. These have been work study jobs to start with, but oldest has a part time real job now too. They get their own cell phones and laptops when they go to college paying for them out of graduation money. We pay for the cell phone monthly charges. So far, it's worked well and I have no regrets. We do have to let them know when we are doing chores as we have no set schedule for doing them (other than dishes), but it's never a problem for them helping out with their "assignment" (whatever it is for the time). They were brought up that way, so it was natural for them. If one misses a time/day/whatever due to time issues they sometimes make up for it a different day, but not always. It really depends upon the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 We do have to let them know when we are doing chores as we have no set schedule for doing them (other than dishes), but it's never a problem for them helping out with their "assignment" (whatever it is for the time). They were brought up that way, so it was natural for them. If one misses a time/day/whatever due to time issues they sometimes make up for it a different day, but not always. It really depends upon the situation. Now that my son is a college student, we do something similar. When he is home on breaks, I have given him some projects to do, things like yard work or window washing. This gives him the chance to see friends who may have job or family constraints while contributing to the household in some manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Cuddles :-) Curious if this is typical about not helping during the week in the UK? I don't know. He's working on the IB and aiming for pretty prestigious universities. If he were choosing not to work so hard then I'd probably give him more chores. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Oh, I asked Calvin last night what he thought his responsibilities and rights were. The first ones he came up with were: "The responsibility to behave politely when I'm feeling grumpy; the right to take myself off and grump in my own room when family duties allow." Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 My freshman has a lot of work, so the 6th grader is doing more now! Since youngest needs me for pretty much all his work, it's completed by around 1-2. But, oldest takes two high school courses, and 3 online courses, and then our strictly home stuff- he is busy all day. So the 11 year old has been doing more chores than my older- helping me in the yard, etc. He doesn't complain, but if he did, I'd tell him it's evening out since oldest could do more for so long due to age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Hi Everyone! I don't have large chunks of time today so I'm going to answer posts one by one as I come and go because there are so many interesting points.... I do make sure my son learns the basics and can prepare himself a few meals. I wonder if your observation may not have something to do with the fact that Germans do not cook every day anyway; But several of my male friends ARE able to cook. In Germany, most teens do nto even get their license at 18, because it is not necessary; I have quite a few friends there who do not own cars. Sounds like your daughter has lots of self-determination about cooking - it must be great for you! So do the guys back home your son's age also know how to make a few meals? or is that an idea born out of necessity or something you picked up in the US? I had gotten the idea of young German men not knowing how to cook normally from one son's apt mate - who did not even know how to boil water to cook pasta!!! (at about 27yo) and another guy in his 20's who didn't know how to cook who I thought told me that it wasn't common for guys to know how to cook in Germany (at least ex West).... The part about Germans not cooking everyday does shed light on other anecdotes I've heard from a guy (not my son) who has gone for a couple of summers and stayed with people who would just tear open a pack of something to eat at the table - it sounded very studentish if you know what I mean... My son's experience was much better though.... I realized I had forgotten to discuss our transportation arrangements which go with your driving points... We have 3 dif buses possible and dd started taking the bus to activities (if the schedule worked so she wasn't hanging around in the wrong places) as young as about 4rd grade...but the close ones are infrequent so my oldest would tend to ride his bike to a more frequent bus. Later he would just ride his bike most places... I drive my ds3 to the train station q d because he has to get the 6:56 train and can eat his breakfast en route, he has his bike in the car and then bikes home in the evening when there's lots of traffic. I've felt responsible to do this because his commute allows us to not move (difficult here) But only one son has his license so far. One will probably never get one...Ds3 just got permit but is so busy and we don't like to do gratuitous driving - his free time hardly ever matches up with a trip....it will probably be at least a year or two... It seems that with dd, she wants to do everything her brothers have done about 4 years earlier! This is a challenge to put on the brakes...she wants freedom while not yet having the responsibility...She wants to take the train to Germany alone next summer...I hesitate... More later, Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 YSo my question is: If you don't have assigned work - how do you try to make sure one isn't skipping out and another doing too much without lots of micromanagement? (I realize there are periods where one will simply not be able to contribute due to being gone most of the day (eg 5AM to 6PM) but when it is just a temporary situation..) Do yours automatically think of helping more the next day if they were gone the previous day? Joan I don't assign specific work, instead when something needs to be done I call one of the kids to do it, so in that way I know it balances. As they get older my goal is to get them to recognize when something needs to be done and just do it. So for example, ds needing his things clean for work. Well he is able to start the wash himself, but if there is still items in the washer and dryer he needs to put it through a reboot himself. I am willing to fold the laundry but he can empty the dryer, put the stuff from washer to dryer and start a new load all without me micromanaging or assigning him to laundry chore. Now that said, he is still most often at that stage of just tossing his work clothes on top and expecting that I will come along and wash them for him and at those times I still have him do the laundry reboot I just have to tell him to. The same for dishes. If they go to take a clean glass from the bottom of the drainer of clean dishes, I want them at a point of simply putting them all away without being told because they can see it needs to be done. Or the carpet vacuumed or whatever. I do not anticipate them picking up the whole house and doing a proper clean without a list to follow though. They all have adhd, and heck I still need to make a list of what to get done so I don't forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 So do the guys back home your son's age also know how to make a few meals? or is that an idea born out of necessity or something you picked up in the US? I don't know- I do not know any 13 year old boys in Germany. But when I remember my boyfriends in high school, they did know how to cook. The part about Germans not cooking everyday does shed light on other anecdotes I've heard from a guy (not my son) who has gone for a couple of summers and stayed with people who would just tear open a pack of something to eat at the table - it sounded very studentish if you know what I mean... What "pack of something"? A typical German dinner table would have some cheese, salami, wurst, ham, and bread. I fully expect bachelor guys to just put the packages on the table without taking out the contents and arranging them neatly on platters; I admit that we often just set out all the cheeses without bothering to unpack and plate everything (but only if it's just us) It seems that with dd, she wants to do everything her brothers have done about 4 years earlier! This is a challenge to put on the brakes...she wants freedom while not yet having the responsibility...She wants to take the train to Germany alone next summer...I hesitate... How old is she? It is quite normal for European teens as young as 13 /14 to travel unsupervised by train, even to another country. VERY different from the US! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 We've never shielded him from some of the hard truths of our lives, but we knew he could handle it. Because he understands, we share more than some parents might, or some kids might be able to handle. It's a cycle, I guess. This is interesting because for a certain level of decision-making we don't share anything. But I can see how this would help prepare them for big decisions later on... It seems like they've all grown up at once - I'm not quite sure how the shift has been so huge and so sudden because there is a large age difference between youngest and oldest.... If they want a cell phone it is up to them to work to pay for it, I don't even have a cell phone I am not paying for one for my teen. They are to cover all their extras on their own, .... As long as they can maintain their grades they will work in high school, particularly if they continue homeschooling as they have the flexibility. .... He is to pitch in to help offset the cost of gas I am spending but he is not going to be paying even 1/2 of the cost of gas at this stage. ... he will be responsible for replacing all the gas he used. Not at only 14. They are still expected to complete chores at home when asked, and eventually when not asked. They are still expected to help out with the younger kids when asked. So decreasing subsidies as maturity, independence, and driving skills allow... it seems like the training for doing chores 'when not asked' already begins when you have it in your mind....My dd will take initiative for baking only....I don't think I was really thinking ahead like that... This is a healthy preparation for adulthood and I see some other posters are dealing with this also - it is very helpful.... Her board name was/is Eternalknot, I think. I forgot about the driving thing. Because car insurance is so expensive (and we only have 2 cars for 7 people) and we didn't want to do the driver's ed, and because of where we live (narrow, 2-lane highways with 18-wheelers going 70mph around blind curves), none of our dc got their permits before they were 19yo. Most were older. Then, they keep them until dh says we can afford the insurance. We also don't have any land lines. Only cells. It's probably fairly common in the US. It's cheaper, in our case. I'd never noticed that poster's name - perhaps not a regular on the high school board - but you've made me curious about her posts....hopefully the search function will be working properly soon... 18 wheelers around blind curves - no wonder you don't have them driving! Well not that I think it automatic to drive at 16 anyway - but that's pretty dangerous... Just curious - how long can you keep a permit? I have to say that my kids are not very materialistic. They rarely ask for stuff. Until my kids are 16, I have an allowance for them (paid monthly because I just can't get my act together to have the appropriate amounts of cash on hand on a weekly basis.) However, my rule was they had to ask for it (and it was on the calendar) in time for me to get cash. They never asked. I try to be considerate of their schedules and ask for the same consideration. I am happy to drive them to activities until they can drive themselves. In return, the drivers are expected to do some chauffeuring and errand running. We have them get their permits at 15, licenses at 16 - mostly because I want them to get lots of driving experience while under our supervision. So, by the time they are 18, they will have both maturity AND experience. But, with the recession, it is very difficult for teens to get jobs around here because the typical teen jobs are mostly taken by adults who are under employed. You really made me laugh about requiring your children to ask for their allowance! I had such trouble keeping their organized - sometimes I got a year behind - and now I think it is even more! Oh if only I had done your system! Not being materialistic seems very important for satisfaction and makes harmony easier it seems... I bolded the parts that jumped out at me...someone had written before about there young people getting experience driving but I had missed the concept of 'while under parental supervision'....so I guess in a way the lessons continue in some way? Do you discuss how they are driving? or how do you still supervise if you are not in the car? Our only son who drives gets very little experience now that he's away a lot but I can't think of any advice I'm giving him even though he really only barely passed his test....I think it was a gift because of his age (21) Thank you to all the other posters because you've provided some really useful insights and ideas for us as well and I'll be back ... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Posting is my reward to myself for cleaning for our coming guest :-) His job in high school was to be a student but also a minor contributor to this household and our community. Fortunately for us, my son is a minimalist. He does not want designer clothes. His wardrobe is minimal and that is the way he prefers it. He has an antique pay-as-you-go phone. At one point I offered to upgrade it. No thank you. After seven weeks in the rain, the decades old tent gave out. I think we'll buy The Boy a new one for his birthday. His pack is being replaced at Christmas. He needs something to hold all of his camping gear, his minimal clothing and his archaeological tools and books. We had not thought of the latter when we bought him a pack for backpacking trips at age 12. (Our family ethos seems to be to make do and use something until it dies. Occasionally we recognize that something has outgrown its usefulness for other reasons.) This reminds me of one of my former students. She was missing class. Why? Because of work. "Why do you need to work so much?" I asked. "To pay for my car." "Why do you need a car?" "To get to work." Alrighty then.. :rofl: Your son is REALLY resilient! That is amazing perseverance....And that tent must have been a good one too, to last that long. I've camped out in the rain but never that long... I can see that all the character qualities that you were working to instill all those years have resulted in a thrifty frugal determined guy...... This idea of requiring volunteer work in the community, like Gwen, seems really important also - unhappily we don't have many volunteer opportunities...When the village asked for volunteers, my son signed up with others....but then they ended up paying them....I went and complained and they said that some people wouldn't help without getting paid.... Here in Texas at 16 you can get an "apprentice license" through the state for doing electrical work. You must work with a master electrician. The opportunity to do this came from a man in our church who approached my son and wanted to know if he were interested. In 2 years (and so many hours on the job) he will be able to take a test to get what is called his Journeymans license. It is a great opportunity, he is learning quite a bit. :) This is really useful; I'm glad to hear about some people finding opportunities like that... We have one away at college - she pays her own commute expenses (we bought the car, but she feeds and repairs it), food, clothing, and school books/supplies. As long as she is f/t student with B or better average, we pay her car insurance.He has chores at home, but they're much more occasional now that he is gone over the weekend and studying when he's home. We pay for the cell phones, unlimited texting, for 3 kids and 1 parent, a decision we made to help the kids stay connected with friends when we moved. ....but has very little opportunity to make money other than doing special jobs @ home. Maybe this summer she'll find a p/t or temporary job. Last summer she volunteered 8 hours/week at a local family farm as a sort of an apprenticeship. Yes, like you, it is mostly us paying our kids for work until they finished their bachelors - though they've gotten some tutoring jobs (like 1 hr/wk) and a 2-3 wk summer job...There just aren't as many jobs for students here unless they're in apprenticeship programs... - it is adults who do waitering/waitressing - it can be their lifetime work.... Volunteering is usually a good experience, esp on a farm where there is a lot going on :-) Goodnight! Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 1) Excel academically. God gave our kids brains; we expect them to make good use of them! 2) Be involved in our church or one of their choice -- at whatever doing whatever seems to be right for the kid and the church in question. 4) Be involved in the community -- volunteering, being a member, whatever. But we expect involvement in the outer world beyond our home. What we provide -- 1) A loving home, lots of food, some family entertainment, and an open house for whatever friend wants to drop by. College -- Expectations for our young adults -- 1) Keep the scholarship! 3) We love the idea of interesting summer internships, but we don't pay for them. If a kid wants a neat non-paying summer experience, he has to find grant money for it. 4) Go to church What we provide -- 1) Costs to and from home. Even for our otherwise independent 24yo, we pay all costs associated with coming home. We don't want finances to determine when/if our kids come home for a visit. And if a kid decides to buy a 28 foot boat during his freshman year, like ds2 has done, we approve on condition we are not at all involved financially, legally, or in any other way! I take away from this that you have a lot of expectations that are broad and beyond personal pleasure and then your young adults grow out to those expansive goals.... Were your parents like that with you? or how did you get this vision? There's respect without compromise in some way but still lots of room for them to grow in whatever way they choose....the idea of buying a boat as a freshman means his imagination is not lacking! The idea of providing 'some family entertainment' is novel to me for teens +, though we go on family trips and occasionally field trips here, I've never thought of providing entertainment....what kind do you provide? When in high school they help out with the family chores as we do them. If they are needing time to study they are exempt from what we are doing if there are time constraints. If there are no time constraints, they help. They also are "used" to help dad when he has fieldwork he needs to do for his Engineering job. They do not get paid regularly, but we pay for many of their activities as part of the "family pot." They do not have their own cars, cell phones or computers, but get to use the family owned versions when they need them. We do have to let them know when we are doing chores as we have no set schedule for doing them (other than dishes), but it's never a problem for them helping out with their "assignment" (whatever it is for the time). They were brought up that way, so it was natural for them. If one misses a time/day/whatever due to time issues they sometimes make up for it a different day, but not always. It really depends upon the situation. So creekland - are you saying that you never had chore schedules? or just not now when they are older? they seem to have a sense of duty - which is I think what you mean about it being natural for them....and does the youngest have as much as the older ones? or do you find that the youngest gets more free time since there is not as much to do? When he is home on breaks, I have given him some projects to do, things like yard work or window washing. This gives him the chance to see friends who may have job or family constraints while contributing to the household in some manner. Is that in addition to doing dishes or helping cook (just imagining daily tasks) or instead of? "The responsibility to behave politely when I'm feeling grumpy; the right to take myself off and grump in my own room when family duties allow." :001_smile: So the 11 year old has been doing more chores than my older- helping me in the yard, etc. He doesn't complain, but if he did, I'd tell him it's evening out since oldest could do more for so long due to age. Good point... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 So creekland - are you saying that you never had chore schedules? or just not now when they are older? they seem to have a sense of duty - which is I think what you mean about it being natural for them....and does the youngest have as much as the older ones? or do you find that the youngest gets more free time since there is not as much to do? Joan No, we never did official chore schedules. The difference in age between my oldest and youngest is just 3 1/2 years, so not terribly major. We insisted that they come up with something they liked for dividing work. For dishes, this meant they rotated. For farm chores, they often all got their preference as each liked doing something else, but occasionally they switched things up. It was still their planning. When it came time to vacuum or do laundry or other such things (we aren't regular with our times for these) we divided up the chores at that time. Our boys were "working" on the farm as soon as we moved here (oldest was 5, youngest was 2). They grew into their chores by growing up with them. Even young kids can feed dogs, chickens, or watch ponies when they graze in unfenced pastures (it's all fenced except the road - a road cars are seldom on). They can dust or help vacuum or whatever. Our kids literally grew up as a team whether here or doing things like camping and setting up/taking down the campsite. They even invented their own games when we traveled and such things. It's one thing I'm very, very happy about and was uber upset to have end as they moved on to their respective colleges. NOW they tell me that my oldest always arranged everything and they just went along with it, ;) but at the time, there were no complaints AND the leadership they saw oldest "perform" has helped each one develop nice leadership qualities in their own respective worlds. They don't like it when oldest returns home and tries to boss them around though... They do still like being together in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 As they get older my goal is to get them to recognize when something needs to be done and just do it. If they go to take a clean glass from the bottom of the drainer of clean dishes, I want them at a point of simply putting them all away without being told because they can see it needs to be done. I still need to make a list of what to get done so I don't forget. LOL....my ds3 will start to do things without being asked the most of all of them I think....this is hard if there are some who will do this and others who don't.... But when I remember my boyfriends in high school, they did know how to cook. What "pack of something"? How old is she? It is quite normal for European teens as young as 13 /14 to travel unsupervised by train, even to another country. VERY different from the US! Ok, maybe it is E/W difference or maybe just due to my very small sampling. :-) LOL re pack of something! You're right - now I think of the discussions on the Bilingual board about meals/snacks etc, etc. in dif cultures - between that and the fact that this was a French young guy with all the cultural customs about meals in France making the contrast even greater for him - it would have been unsurprising to just have some salami with bread in Germany....though here too, but he must be affected by his father's French culture... About the train - we just had a mishap last weekend..She was going to Bern alone - on a train that was supposed to be direct! She heard an announcement about getting off at one of the stops for Bern but she figured it must be for some other purpose...Then the train didn't go to Bern! She ended up in another city having to pay the conductor because she was on the wrong train. When we check the internet - it is still marked as a direct train! Anyway, if she was in Germany, there would be even less of a possibility of her picking up these kinds of messages - even though her German is getting pretty good - so I'm a little concerned...she also didn't speak up to the conductor about the problem....Maybe she would next time now that she knows such a thing can happen. We have had such faith in the Swiss system.....anyway... When we all sat down to come up with the system, I presented the initial list. All 5 of them talked and came up with the system. This was important ...... Their lists were the 'authority', if you will. And they could get as creative with it as they wanted to. :) ..... But because they switched every week (their idea), they could see if the last person had neglected anything on their list. We usually wrote the things which HAD to get done on our big white board downstairs where all could see. After the 2 began college, they all sat down and decided how to handle the running of the house. I took back most of the cooking (because I wanted to make sure there was healthy food for them to take with them to school, mostly.). So to answer your question, they all know what's expected of them and they know that people are depending on them. And if they don't get things done, they know they will hear about it. :) I think the last time one of them renewed their permit it was for 8 years maybe? You can keep them forever here in VA if you want. And they all do actually drive. It's just that dh or I are in the car when they're driving. It's a technicality to keep our car insurance from skyrocketing. they made the lists very UNequal...... They said it all evens out because they all rotate through the lists anyway. ksva - you've given a number of easily implementable ideas that sound really helpful about chores. I'm definitely going to have them sit down and iron it and work it out.....I've been deciding for too long....They've been waiting for me to come up with new lists - but with the constantly changing situation - it has been hard. As people have discussed about education - about owning the process - it seems it can apply to this too! 8 years is really long! I can see how you get lots of supervising as you're always there... And I have a panic attack in the passenger seat.... LOL The problem I'm having with teaching multiple drivers (because for awhile the other one also had his permit and now the third does) - is remembering what I've told to who....I should probably did out a checklist from one of those books..... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 No, we never did official chore schedules. When it came time to vacuum or do laundry or other such things (we aren't regular with our times for these) we divided up the chores at that time. Our boys were "working" on the farm as soon as we moved here (oldest was 5, youngest was 2). They grew into their chores Our kids literally grew up as a team NOW they tell me that my oldest always arranged everything and they just went along with it, ;) I see how the very small age gap does make a huge difference as they're not so different in capabilities - I think that is the point where we finally are, where each one could easily do any of the jobs... I've never even thought of such a way of doing things when they were younger but I think it could have worked for the easier jobs....too bad I didn't read this post years ago! And what do you mean about not being regular about certain chores and just dividing them then? You would have a work time and lump the chores? The farm experience seems really valuable and it sounds like they really profited from it in how they learned to work individually and as a team... Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 And what do you mean about not being regular about certain chores and just dividing them then? You would have a work time and lump the chores? The farm experience seems really valuable and it sounds like they really profited from it in how they learned to work individually and as a team... Joan Yes, our work in the house days were usually rainy days unless company was coming. Then I would decide today is the day we're cleaning and chores would get divided. On nice days we were usually outside and I'm not a "clean" person enough to feel we had to clean inside after working (or playing) outside - except for dishes. We also did laundry at least once per week (sometimes a load or two a day). The rest varied. The worse the weather, the cleaner my house would be. It's still that way actually. Hubby and I often comment on how glad we are that we were able to bring the boys up on our farm. We never planned out their becoming a team and getting a work ethic, but it sure worked out that way "by chance." We're thankful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yes, our work in the house days were usually rainy days unless company was coming. Then I would decide today is the day we're cleaning and chores would get divided. On nice days we were usually outside and I'm not a "clean" person enough to feel we had to clean inside after working (or playing) outside - except for dishes. We also did laundry at least once per week (sometimes a load or two a day). The rest varied. The worse the weather, the cleaner my house would be. It's still that way actually. Hubby and I often comment on how glad we are that we were able to bring the boys up on our farm. We never planned out their becoming a team and getting a work ethic, but it sure worked out that way "by chance." We're thankful! I'm going to share this with a friend who has a lot of outside work - it sounds very practical and earthy too...Why be inside when you can be out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinor Everywhere Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Our goals/expectations have really changed with high school. In grade school, our life was set up like this: We provided all food, clothes, cell phones, toys, entertainment expenses (movies, eating out, etc), schooling, travel, boating, fun summer camps, etc. Essentially, everything. They worked on their school work, played musical instruments, played a sport, went to youth group and church, and completed a set list of household chores. Those included vacuuming/dusting their bedrooms, doing the dishes, feeding & cleaning up after pets, helping vacuum/dust/pick up main living areas, and cleaning their bathroom. We travel a lot overseas, and if they want spending money for fun trinkets and souvenirs they needed to do extra chores for money. I paid for chores I would normally have to do myself, such as my bedroom/bathroom, laundry, etc. Both kids earned vacation spending money, but especially my dd...she loves to make money. Last year, in 8th grade, my dd had a part-time job working at a local church (not ours) cleaning rooms, assisting the education director, and being a general Girl Friday. She earned over minimum wage, and was able to buy herself a new iPad 3 as well as other things. I also required that she save 20% of the money, and give away 10% to anything she chose (not necessarily to a church). For a few months she and I split the cost of paying for a rescue horse to have adequate care, and she used her 10% money for that. THIS year, both my kids are in school for the first time. My ds goes full-time and my dd goes part-time. This means: I still provide everything. I expect my kids to be involved in high school, both academically and extra-curricularly. My dd is very busy, but my son has not done much so far. He knows that he will need to get a job if he does not develop any outside interests. Both my dh and I (plus my siblings and nieces/nephew) all worked during high school, and in the case of my brother and I, we were very involved in music. My dd has no time for her job and she reluctantly quit it before our summer vacation. This ended up being a good decision since marching band took up 30 hours a week during football season. She is also taking her first AP class, as well as a few other difficult classes. My ds recently began volunteering at an animal rescue within walking distance of his school. I'm THRILLED about this - it's the first thing he has ever really been interested in. And this is a kid I have exposed to: drama class, trombone lessons, piano lessons, swim team, rugby team, sailing, fishing, horseback riding, archery, Lego robotics, etc. Both kids ride bikes/skateboards to school in morning, and my son rides down to the rescue after school and spends an hour or two there. When he gets home he does his homework, showers, and helps with dinner (sometimes). He no longer takes an instrument or plays a sport. Chores kind of have gone by the wayside with their new, busier schedule. We now have a housecleaner every other week, and I do the cleaning on the off week. I do breakfast/lunch dishes, and the kids do dinner dishes (if my dd is at home - she often has band practice for 2.5 hours a few nights a week). So, although my kids are older, they have less responsibilities in many ways. School is my number-one priority for them now that high school is here and the stakes are higher. We always schooled rigorously, but it's different now. The biggest change for me personally is now that they are 15 I am backing off and allowing them to make more of their own choices. This is not easy for me! I mean, I so obviously know what is in their best interests! :laugh: Some choices I agree with, some I don't, but unless they are very detrimental to them, I'm letting them choose and then take the consequence (good and bad). That's why my son is not doing music or sports - it seems futile to demand it at his age. He still gets exercise, just not in a sport kind of way (he rides his ripstick or bike often, and hikes our local mountains quite a lot). My dd still sails all summer, plays her violin and flute, and is now taking sousaphone lessons for next year's marching band season. She's on the high school speech & debate team, is secretary of the girl's choir, and yearbook editor of her honor society. She's a bit of an over-achiever. :tongue_smilie: It's been interesting to read this thread because these high school years are new to me and I'm not always sure how to proceed. Thanks for starting it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 I also required that she save 20% of the money, and give away 10% to anything she chose (not necessarily to a church). For a few months she and I split the cost of paying for a rescue horse to have adequate care, and she used her 10% money for that. My ds recently began volunteering at an animal rescue within walking distance of his school. I'm THRILLED about this - it's the first thing he has ever really been interested in. The biggest change for me personally is now that they are 15 I am backing off and allowing them to make more of their own choices. This is not easy for me! I mean, I so obviously know what is in their best interests! :laugh: Some choices I agree with, some I don't, but unless they are very detrimental to them, I'm letting them choose and then take the consequence (good and bad). That's why my son is not doing music or sports - it seems futile to demand it at his age. I had to laugh about the bolded part! One aspect of this that is hard for me is how my guys organize events - and not stepping in....My dd is a born organizer. I think she was organizing her brothers at the age of 10 already.....The guys seem to have trouble communicating all the necessary details, skipping crucial bits of info.... I see how you have helped them learn how to manage their money, also helping them think of others....I think that's great to make that a habit early on - like some of the other posters.... Thanks for sharing! Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinor Everywhere Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 One aspect of this that is hard for me is how my guys organize events - and not stepping in....My dd is a born organizer. I think she was organizing her brothers at the age of 10 already.....The guys seem to have trouble communicating all the necessary details, skipping crucial bits of info.... Haha, oh my yes. Just let my dd and yours get together and they'll have all these boys whipped into shape in no time. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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