If you wanted to use AoPS...

[Hedgehogs4]

What curricula would you need to have used prior for him / her to begin AoPS Pre-Algebra.

[snowbeltmom]

I asked RR this question a few years ago before AoPS pre-algbra was released. He recommended the Singapore program for the elementary years. Singapore prepared my kids well for AoPS.

[boscopup]

RR recommends Singapore, but you don't HAVE to use Singapore. I know 8FillTheHeart uses Horizons successfully, as others have as well.

 

Really, anything that gets you through 5th grade math should be fine. I'm not sure where MUS would line up.

[Julie of KY]

My kids, also, have used Singapore math befor AoPS. they have had trouble transitioning to negative numbers, harder order of operations, and exponents. Once they get that base AoPS moves much more smoothly.

[jennynd]

DS also used SM, standard version all through 6b before AOPs algebra. We are not that far into the book, but so far so good

[boscopup]

My kids, also, have used Singapore math befor AoPS. they have had trouble transitioning to negative numbers, harder order of operations, and exponents. Once they get that base AoPS moves much more smoothly.

 

Were you using the US edition? I think Standards edition probably does a better job with those topics (ie, actually includes them :D). I'm not sure how much we'll do with negative numbers in Singapore. It has been introduced in grade 4. We've also done plenty of order of operations and a bit in exponents as of 5A.

 

The AoPS Prealgebra book does a good job of thoroughly covering those topics, in case the OP was planning to start with that book. I know that wasn't an option for many current AoPS users.

[Mukmuk]

We did SM initially till about 3rd grade level. After that, it was Primary Challenge math and Challenge Math. For concepts my son had problems with, we used the http://www.aimsedu.org books. Some books are better than others but they're all very hands-on (DS is a visual/kinesthetic learner).

 

We just started with AOPS Intro to Algebra and its been great. I did have to remind him that he actually did factoring on a hands-on basis before. One approach helps the next. :001_smile:.

[Hedgehogs4]

The thing about AoPs is that my son is quite smart in math, but I don't know that he is as good as AoPS suggests they should be in order to use it. We use MUS only because it is what we started with and it has worked well. I have supplemented with LOF to give him more problem-solving experience because I think MUS is weak on that. To my dismay I think I may have done him a disservice by not using a different math program, and AoPS may be out of reach.

[boscopup]

The thing about AoPs is that my son is quite smart in math, but I don't know that he is as good as AoPS suggests they should be in order to use it. We use MUS only because it is what we started with and it has worked well. I have supplemented with LOF to give him more problem-solving experience because I think MUS is weak on that. To my dismay I think I may have done him a disservice by not using a different math program, and AoPS may be out of reach.

 

AoPS Prealgebra starts at the beginning, teaching the child to problem solve. It may not be as out of reach as you think. You may have to alter how you use the book at first, but as he gets into problem solving mode, you might find that he is able to use the book as written. :)

 

There is no specific program to prime students for this book. They just need to know through 5th grade math (basic 4 operations, fractions, decimals, percents, etc.). AoPS starts out with proving why 2+3 = 3+2. Very basic, foundational concepts. Then it builds upon those concepts.

 

I do not think Singapore is a requirement. It's nice to have, but not a requirement. Remember that some AoPS kids are in public school, using any old public school text, possibly with a math teacher that doesn't know a lot about math. :tongue_smilie:

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Were you using the US edition? I think Standards edition probably does a better job with those topics (ie, actually includes them :D). I'm not sure how much we'll do with negative numbers in Singapore. It has been introduced in grade 4. We've also done plenty of order of operations and a bit in exponents as of 5A.

 

 

I wondered the same thing. We used Singapore Standards through 5B and haven't had a problem with negative numbers, order of operations, or exponents in AoPS. The program is certainly challenging, but I've never felt Singapore didn't prepare her.

[Halcyon]

We did SM initially till about 3rd grade level. After that, it was Primary Challenge math and Challenge Math. For concepts my son had problems with, we used the http://www.aimsedu.org books. Some books are better than others but they're all very hands-on (DS is a visual/kinesthetic learner).

 

We just started with AOPS Intro to Algebra and its been great. I did have to remind him that he actually did factoring on a hands-on basis before. One approach helps the next. :001_smile:.

 

Thank u for this link. My younger son is very visual, and i am off to check out these books.

[Mom-ninja.]

Thank u for this link. My younger son is very visual, and i am off to check out these books.

 

 

I agree.Neat books

[freesia]

I agree that there isn't a particular program that would prepare you well for AOPS. Honestly, I think taking to AOPS is more of a learning style or personality thing than a curriculum choice.

 

My son did Horizons through Grade 5 along with Singapore CWP. While he was prepared academically, he didn't enjoy the challenge of figuring the problems out. He could have done it with me actively involved and encouraging him all the way but w/ 2 other to school and a 2 year old, I couldn't do that. We switched to Dolciani and it went well and he had a good, strong pre-Algebra year and is flying through the first chapters of Jacobs w/o a hitch.

 

AOPS is a wonderful program but it's not the only good program out there. Its beauty is that it appeals to the math lover in a way that other programs don't.

 

I think MUS through sixth grade would prepare a student of that type for AOPS.

Edited September 15, 2012 by freesia

[sagira]

AOPS is a wonderful program but it's not the only good program out there. It's beauty is that it appeals to the math lover in a way that other programs don't.

 

:iagree: I like the idea of AOPS, but I don't know if I could teach it or ds would do well with it. He's average at math and he just wants to get it over with. He tolerates it. I am pleasantly surprised to see so many strong math students on WTM using AOPS.

 

The way things are going, I see us doing:

 

Math Mammoth (MM) until 6th

Dolciani Pre-Algebra in 7th and MM grade 7 worksheets

Foerster's Algebra in 8th with Math Without Borders

 

If it takes longer we'll start Algebra in 9th. It will also depend on what career path he wants to take. For engineering he'll need a higher level of applied math.

Edited September 15, 2012 by sagira

[SunnyDays]

I agree that AoPS is probably more of a learning style choice. There are many strong programs that would probably prepare a student well in the elementary years. I know my son would be prepared for it using MM, and would also probably be capable of doing the math... but he would not enjoy that style, at all.

 

As was said before, there are many other good programs that will give a student a strong math education, so no one should feel like they HAVE to use AoPS for their child to do well in math. But if you do want to use it and it's a good fit for your student, most programs will probably be fine to prepare them.

[Tasia]

I agree that there isn't a particular program that would prepare you well for AOPS. Honestly, I think taking to AOPS is more of a learning style or personality thing than a curriculum choice.

:iagree:My 6th grader is successfully using and loving AoPS Pre-algebra after coming out of public school, where they used Everyday Math. My 3rd and 4th graders are using Math Mammoth and Singapore CWP, which I think should prepare them for AoPS, but it's to early to tell whether it'll be a good choice for them.

[watertribe]

I'm kind of curious. Why does it seem that so many of the AoPS users are starting it after 5th grade math rather than finishing 6th grade first? 6th is where you learn about negative numbers, intro to geometry, probabilities & statistics, etc.... Doesn't that set you up well for a pre-algebra course?

 

My son used SM through 5th and then had MM in 6th. We are going to have a look at starting Jacobs Algebra, but may also look at AoPS (does anyone have a link to some good samples, the ones on their website are pretty sparse)? I'm curious because of all the comments about it, but I'm not sure it would be a good fit for my son.

[regentrude]

Why does it seem that so many of the AoPS users are starting it after 5th grade math rather than finishing 6th grade first? 6th is where you learn about negative numbers, intro to geometry, probabilities & statistics, etc.... Doesn't that set you up well for a pre-algebra course?

 

First of all, you should keep in mind that the families who use AoPS typically have particularly strong math students, because the curriculum is geared towards those.

Prealgebra is mainly fractions, decimals, negative numbers, exponents (and some intro to linear equations). The student needs to have mastered arithmetic with positive integers to do these things- which takes 4 or possibly 5 years. When the student has accomplished this, he can start prealgebra. You need neither probability nor geometry for prealgebra; both will be covered later in more depth.

 

Of course you can always start prealgebra later, but I really see no reason to.

 

FWIW, I pulled my son out of PS in January of 5th grade, taught him fractions for the remainder of 5th grade, and started him on AoPS Intro to Algebra in 6th grade. (the prealgebra book did not yet exist then)

Edited September 15, 2012 by regentrude

[wapiti]

I'm kind of curious. Why does it seem that so many of the AoPS users are starting it after 5th grade math rather than finishing 6th grade first? 6th is where you learn about negative numbers, intro to geometry, probabilities & statistics, etc.... Doesn't that set you up well for a pre-algebra course?

 

My son used SM through 5th and then had MM in 6th. We are going to have a look at starting Jacobs Algebra, but may also look at AoPS (does anyone have a link to some good samples, the ones on their website are pretty sparse)? I'm curious because of all the comments about it, but I'm not sure it would be a good fit for my son.

 

The Prealgebra text was written for bright math students (who are often ahead) to follow "5th grade math" though arithmetic with negative numbers is a prerequisite (see the pre-test). FWIW, intro to geometry and probability & statistics are covered in the Prealgebra text.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

We went from Saxon Algebra 1/2 into AoPS Introduction to Algebra. There were some different disciplines in AoPS, but I didn't feel that they were generally unprepared to take on AoPS.

 

I am planning on doing Saxon 6/5 and possibly 7/6 with my youngest before moving into AoPS Pre-Algebra.

[Soror]

:bigear::lurk5:

We are using RS here, on level D and have added in Beast Academy as well. I'm tenatively planning on ds continuing to use RS and Beast as it is released and then transition to AoPS. So far it seems RS has prepared ds well for BA and it is working very well together. I'm finding especially RSD and BA seem to go back and forth on concepts we are covering. It will be nice when BA is finished as it will make the transition to BA less of an issue.

[Hedgehogs4]

Thank you for all your responses. I am going to look into some other programs as well. I have hopes that AoPS will be a fit, but we'll see. I think personality, more than brains, may play into this. My son has always "seen" solutions. He just knows what the answers are, but struggles to get there because he doesn't like the process of writing things down, taking his time, etc. I have tried to train this out of him.

[Soror]

THe just knows what the answers are, but struggles to get there because he doesn't like the process of writing things down, taking his time, etc. I have tried to train this out of him.

 

Ds has always been this way as well. He always try to do it mentally as possible, even when imo it makes it harder to do so. I've really been working with him this year to get him to write some things down here and there to keep track of what he is doing as the word problems get longer.

[Hedgehogs4]

Ds has always been this way as well. He always try to do it mentally as possible, even when imo it makes it harder to do so. I've really been working with him this year to get him to write some things down here and there to keep track of what he is doing as the word problems get longer.

 

I have done the same thing, and finally last year when he could not master fractions (we thought fractions would take forever!) because of this very situation, he finally understood why he needed to do it. I bought him graph-style notebook paper, and had him number his problems down the left side. Then on the right side he had to set up and work his problems so that I could understand his process, and when he came to his solution, he had to circle it, then write it by the number on the left side. This made it easier for me correcting his work and easier for him to go back and find where he had made any mistakes. His mistakes are always in the process. He finally mastered fractions and now the habit is built. I don't have to remind him to do it anymore, and he is doing great--90% or better on all his work.

 

In other news, I went ahead and ordered AoPS. He may be finished with 6th grade math by December, so this will give me time to look it over and see how to approach it. I'll never know if it's a fit unless we try it, and better now than later when he's older and will feel "behind" if it's a bust.

 

here's hoping!

[daijobu]

What curricula would you need to have used prior for him / her to begin AoPS Pre-Algebra.

 

Not a curricula, but it really helps if your child has practice with the exams in the books sold at moems.org. If he/she gets in the habit of solving those problems, it will be excellent prep for AOPS.

 

I set aside one day a week from Singapore Math to do an old moems exam for practice. These are the sorts of problems you'll see in AOPS.

 

Good luck!

[serendipitous journey]

Kelly, this thread is so topical to me -- I'm trying to decide AoPS pre-A vs SM5 ...

 

I used MUS with Button for as long as it worked for us (through Delta/Epsilon). I wanted to throw out into the thread that you can teach negative-number arithmetic and also exponents gently with daily drill. I throw negatives into our addition and subtraction drills sometimes, and am starting with multiplication and division (this thread is reminding me to get back to this -- I'd let it slide).

 

I've also introduced exponents on daily drill sheets (with I have done instead of oral drill). The concept of a number to the nth power isn't usually too hard, if you start of with squares and write the whole thing out long hand -- 9 x 9 x 9 = 9(to the 3rd power) = 243. I think :).

 

At any rate, this way of doing it seemed to mesh well with MUS to me.

[regentrude]

9 x 9 x 9 = 9(to the 3rd power) = 243. I think :).

.

 

Actually, no: 9x9x9=729

 

It is useful to teach your students to estimate: 9*9=81, and 81*9 has to be a bit less than 81*10=800.

[Arcadia]

I'm trying to decide AoPS pre-A vs SM5 ... .

 

My older boy blazed through SM5A and SM5B in two weeks. For 6A and 6B, he can do a unit review a day. Since hubby did not mind paying for another copy for younger boy, I let him write in the workbooks.

 

We would probably hit a slowdown with multiplication/division of two or more negative numbers, and also for negative exponents.

[boscopup]

Kelly, this thread is so topical to me -- I'm trying to decide AoPS pre-A vs SM5 ...

 

Do you mean SM6? AoPS Pre-algebra comes AFTER SM5. :)

 

(though I'm sure some of it could be done before completing SM5 - I've brought in some AoPS ideas into our SM5 instruction sometimes)

[Hedgehogs4]

Funny thing is he inherently understands negative integers, and does not struggle with squares and cubes. He watched a Cyberchase episode on positive and negative numbers when he was in about 2nd grade and grasped it completely. Sat in the backseat of the car and explained them to us like we didn't know ourselves...kind of like my daughter and how to draw--I never had to teach her, she just "knows." Maybe my kids are smarter than I think they are.

 

I gave him some sample questions from moems.org today and he looked at them and said, "oh, cool!" Let's see how he feels after he works them out.

[boscopup]

Funny thing is he inherently understands negative integers, and does not struggle with squares and cubes. He watched a Cyberchase episode on positive and negative numbers when he was in about 2nd grade and grasped it completely. Sat in the backseat of the car and explained them to us like we didn't know ourselves...kind of like my daughter and how to draw--I never had to teach her, she just "knows." Maybe my kids are smarter than I think they are.

 

They probably are! :D

 

So far, two of my 3 kids have learned negative integers at age 5 (though not multiplying/dividing... just adding/subtracting). It took a few minutes and a number line. That's it. The oldest, I kind of expected that from. The younger is not an abstract thinker like his brother... this child is VSL. He understood the negative numbers too! He's not quite as proficient at them as DS1 was at that age, but he understands the basics at least (ie, he can tell you that 2-5 = -3). I don't know if the topic just isn't as hard as it is made out to be, or if it's just because my kids are "mathy". :confused:

 

I still need to teach multiplication/division of negative numbers to DS1 more formally (I've mentioned it, but not gone into "why", though I know AoPS Prealgebra explains the "why" pretty well). I know he'll pick it up easily. It's not a huge deal.

 

Oh, and my kids LOVE Cyberchase! Great program. :D