BoyOBoy Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I know these readers have been recommended for use long past initial phonics education and even past reading fluency and I'd love to tap into this resource. I'm just not sure how or where to start. Looking through, I can see ds can read all the words in the primer and first reader. I haven't downloaded the second yet. I know people have linked to reading levels for these before. Should I start where it begins to cover words he doesn't know? There really isn't much he can't figure out by sounding it out or just what sounds right to him. I am sure there are holes there, and he stumbles at times, and I definitely do not want to stop with further phonics instruction. We use AAS and he reads on his own or to me every day. Any guidance based on this rather vague background? What is it that makes these so valuable and how do I optimize them? We've been loving vintage readers and natures readers, so I think these are right up our alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 and we love it. My son reads the 3rd reader everyday for a read aloud. He reads aloud to me and I listen. The first day I read the story or "lesson" and then he follows along, then next days (except Wednesdays we go to co-op) he reads the lesson the rest of the week. He is in 3rd grade and I just started there. We go over the phonics at the beginning of the lesson and then we take off. It's really pretty simplistic. We still use Grammar, Writing, and a Phonics program (he's needed some remedial phonics help), and AAS. So, we enjoy it but we also love Nature readers and vintage books as well. So, that's all that I can contribute to that. I plan to use it with my younger dd's as well. I think it's good for fluency and reading aloud, personally. I am not sure if that is helpful but that's what we do. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularMom Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 We use them as read alouds. I listen to them to read, and correct their pronunciation as we go. I also make sure they read the words as they appear on the page; too often, they start to speed up and switch things around to make it sound more like modern diction. I want them to get better at taking it slower, reading what's actually there. I also use McGuffey for handwriting practice. I type the cursive portions (and sometimes some of the shorter poems) into StartWrite and print them out for the girls to copy. It's great extra practice for when the handwriting book is finished for the year. We don't spend any planned time talking about the passages and stories, but occasionally, one of the girls will comment on an embedded moral lesson, and we have a positive moment of reflection. It doesn't take a huge amount of time out of our day. We still do complete Language Arts programs using other material, but this is a nice quick rounding out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeterbug Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I just started a thread a few days ago asking if I should force my boys to read from McGuffey. The consensus was no. My boys hate the books with a deep passion. I wanted it to work and to use the books. They were begging me to let them read from other books.....any books but McGuffey. So they go back on my shelf. Maybe my youngest will read them some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perogi Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 :lurk5: I think I have these on my Kindle and had forgotten about them. Do the numbers correspond with grade levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Do the numbers correspond with grade levels? NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadianmumof5 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 We just started these as readalouds in the past few weeks with DD8 and DS6. It takes minutes a day but wow! I knew my kids could read, they read a lot. But their reading out loud is making me feel like I should have done this ages ago......their reading is not as smooth or polished as I thought it would be. Easiest and best 5 minutes spent every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyOBoy Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 So, how do I decide where to start him - just pick a place that seems about his reading level? Also, how important is it in general to know the symbols used for pronunciation? I never worried about him remembering them. Ought I to go back and have him get those solidly learned? Do you do a lesson a day, or linger, even if he can read all the words? NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I start all students with the primer, because I use them as cursive handwriting practice as well as readers. I have several of the audio versions from CBD and plan to complete the series. McGuffey's is based off of a controlled word list. It's pretty scientific, and with my OCD personality, I find them useful for systematic introduction of words. First the words are for handwriting and phonics/spelling, and then later on vocabulary and comprehension becomes the focus. And all along pronunciation is important. I'm thankful for the skillfully read audio books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I do a lesson a week. It helps with pronunciation and fluency. We like them here. We read from it about 4x weekly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The list some one linked had it as two grade levels per book. Book two is third and fourth grade, I believe. DS can decode at a 7-8th grade level, but his comprehension was not that high. I picked some random passages in higher level books amd he struggled. I finally decided to start in book two. He reads a lesson a day to me, then I ask the questions, we discuss and review any words he struggled with. We also look at words in conyext for definitions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I do a lesson a week. It helps with pronunciation and fluency. We like them here. We read from it about 4x weekly. So you read the same passage four times during the week? Ds is not keen on McGuffey, but I think it helps him slow down and understand phonics more. I've dropped it for now but I'm considering continuing in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Yes, we read the same lesson (passage) 4x a week, I read it the first day and we discuss and go over any of the phonics rules at the beginning of the lesson, then the next day he reads it and we go over any words that he may have not seen before. The 3rd and 4th days I just listen to him read it (usually only takes 5 minutes or so) and then we have completed that lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I have all of these on my Robinson discs and I just printed the first for my little guy. He thinks the pictures are funny and doesn't mind them because they are big pages and he can do a lesson quickly. I plan on doing his book list with my youngest 3 and trying to squeeze in as much as I can with older daughter. It really is a great book list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Are there different editions/versions of the McGuffy books? If so, which is the best version to use? I would like to use these for my 4th grader to help with fluency......Although, reading aloud in her science, history, and LA readers so far this year is helping a ton! Thank you ladies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singbanshee Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Here are some links that will probably help: How To Use A Mcguffey's Vintage Education Using The McGuffey's And here is the book that teaches you how to use ALL of the eclectic series including the McGuffey's. It answers almost all the question most people have in regards to teaching and why: The Eclectic Manual of Methods I have used the McGuffey's for years and my kids read amazing for their age using the techniques that are in the above posts. To answer quickly the difference of original (brown) used sight words and revised (colorful) used phonics. The original was written by William Holmes and the revisions were done by his brother because of the demand to remove the religious overtones due to humanism beginning to take hold. There is also the Moore McGuffey Readers which are the original (brown) updated with current syntax and cartoonish pictures rather than block prints. Edited September 12, 2012 by singbanshee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 We just started these as readalouds in the past few weeks with DD8 and DS6.It takes minutes a day but wow! I knew my kids could read, they read a lot. But their reading out loud is making me feel like I should have done this ages ago......their reading is not as smooth or polished as I thought it would be. Easiest and best 5 minutes spent every day. My personal theory (no studies that I've read) is that a lot of people read better/faster/smoother when they read silently. I know I do. My dh is not good at reading aloud, but he is dyslexic. My oldest ds is as well he listening to him read aloud is torture to me. My dh has told me ds will always have a harder time reading aloud and I've backed off stressing about it. (He will never be a Jim Dale and that's okay. :001_smile: Nor will most people. Jim Dale is simply amazing.) Anyway, just wanted to say that a person's aloud reading does not necessarily reflect how they are reading silently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Here are some links that will probably help: How To Use A Mcguffey's Vintage Education Using The McGuffey's And here is the book that teaches you how to use ALL of the eclectic series including the McGuffey's. It answers almost all the question most people have in regards to teaching and why: The Eclectic Manual of Methods I have used the McGuffey's for years and my kids read amazing for their age using the techniques that are in the above posts. To answer quickly the difference of original (brown) used sight words and revised (colorful) used phonics. The original was written by William Holmes and the revisions were done by his brother because of the demand to remove the religious overtones due to humanism beginning to take hold. Thank you for posting these links!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I've taught all of my kids to read with them. I could not stand those first step into reading books, they made NO sense as to the gradual building of words read. We love them. I truly think they were what cemented them into excellent readers, that gradual build of harder and harder words. My kids read out of them every day until they started reading fluently. When I slacked, it really showed. IT also builds an incredible vocabulary slowly, and proportionate to their ability. Want them to read Shakespeare without having to jump the hurdle of language? The readers are key. Now I've found two other readers that are amazing, Readings In Literature, Merrill's 7th Reader by Dyer and Brady (1918) it is for 7th grade, and in the preface it says, "It is a period in which the emotional nature of children is most susceptible of right or wrong development, and in which the imagination begins to construct a new world in harmony with the changing ideals of youth. It is a period of omnivorous reading. The children have mastered the art of getting ideas from the printed page sufficiently to find books a source of enjoyment and it is, therefore, a critical period in the development of taste and discrimination. It is the time when children become conscious of self and of an inner lie that is not yet adjusted to its social surroundings. They need to see the poetry of the commonplace rather than commonplace poetry; to see the significance of everyday virtues and common things as glorified and illuminated by the seers of the human heart and the lovers of nature." LOVE it! It's got a ton of great American poems, letter, the Dec of Ind, the Gettysburg Address, quotations from Lincoln, Rudyard Kipling, Shakespeare, Fenimore Cooper, Whittier. The other old, awesome reader I have is Fifth Year Language Reader by Baker and Carpenter, 1915. (I found these in the throwaway bin of the library sale, BTW) Here's the Fourth, to get an idea. "It follows that a plan of teaching English which gives the pupil the habit of observing the facts of language as he reads must be the best guarantee of his permanent hold upon it and his continued growth in it." Author's italic. This reader centers on myths, Greek, the Volsungs, King Arthur, Roland, Beowulf, Sinbad, Bible, Robinson Crusoe, Paul Revere's Ride, poetry. (Some various selections) So, anyway, I'm all for the readers. ;) Edited September 12, 2012 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 We enjoy McGuffey and it's stretched my son's reading skills quite a bit. We do a lesson a day, 3x/week. He enjoys the old-fashioned stories and language. I like the stories meant to build character. I admit I tend to ignore most of the pronunciation marks. Now I've found two other readers that are amazing, Readings In Literature, Merrill's 7th Reader by Dyer and Brady (1918) it is for 7th grade... The other old, awesome reader I have is Fifth Year Language Reader by Baker and Carpenter, 1915. Thanks for this info! I'll have to see if they can be easily found. Our library book sale is next month...maybe I'll get lucky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 They are not exactly my favorites, but I use them for silent and out-loud reading. It's funny, but the boys like the stories much better than I do. Maybe it's the black and white, judgmental tone they appreciate.:001_huh: At any rate, before you have the child read, be sure you read ahead. Some of the content just really doesn't seem appropriate to me. Oddly enough, it's quite likely that the boys will enjoy it. Just listening to their made-up stories full of orphans, dying mothers and catastrophic events makes me understand why some of the old books with tragic settings really stayed in my mind as a child while the sunny, upbeat stuff just drained right out my ears! I'd also agree with justamouse that I've seen both boys really, really progress in reading; and a lot of it was due to the McGuffey Readers. My younger son who struggled with learning to read really made some pretty big strides due to McGuffey (one of the instructions was to spell words before reading them!). So, although they are not my favorites, I am content to eat my spinach and use them. I just make sure I read first! And I can skip content that I think is far too maudlin or tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This year I invested in Landmark Freedom Baptist's literature curriculum, which uses the McGuffey as its text. The curriculum (for 2nd grade anyway) also includes other classic works right in the curriculum. For instance, we will be doing Robert L. Stevenson poetry the first few weeks. I haven't actually started with this curriculum yet, so I can't speak to how it is actually going. The lessons basically seem to involve the vocabulary study, comprehension, and then some sort of extention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicalTwins Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've gotten some of the workbooks http://www.mottmedia.com/pages/publications.asp?Pub=scope. They are nice to reinforce phonics & spelling in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 This year I invested in Landmark Freedom Baptist's literature curriculum, which uses the McGuffey as its text. The curriculum (for 2nd grade anyway) also includes other classic works right in the curriculum. For instance, we will be doing Robert L. Stevenson poetry the first few weeks. I haven't actually started with this curriculum yet, so I can't speak to how it is actually going. The lessons basically seem to involve the vocabulary study, comprehension, and then some sort of extention. I looked at Landmark again. I just don't know if I want to commit to $40X6=$240.00. If I adopt the series, I want the whole series. I've had my eye on this for quite awhile. I have the feeling it might be like Draw Write Now, and I will regret waiting so long. I'm doing fine without it though, so...:tongue_smilie: Even if something is great, life goes on without it. Or so I keep telling myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'll add something else I do with McGuffey readers. When time is short, and we haven't got to writing, I'll take the selections and have the boys use the questions to write a narration. :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'll add something else I do with McGuffey readers. When time is short, and we haven't got to writing, I'll take the selections and have the boys use the questions to write a narration. :blushing: That is for grades 4 and above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'll add something else I do with McGuffey readers. When time is short, and we haven't got to writing, I'll take the selections and have the boys use the questions to write a narration. :blushing: This sounds like an excellent idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorisuewho Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I looked at Landmark again. I just don't know if I want to commit to $40X6=$240.00. If I adopt the series, I want the whole series. I've had my eye on this for quite awhile. I have the feeling it might be like Draw Write Now, and I will regret waiting so long. I'm doing fine without it though, so...:tongue_smilie: Even if something is great, life goes on without it. Or so I keep telling myself. I often repeat these words to myself: "Just because a curriculum is awesome doesn't mean I have to have it for us to be successful." :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeterbug Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I often repeat these words to myself: "Just because a curriculum is awesome doesn't mean I have to have it for us to be successful." :001_smile: :hurray: Hear, hear! Maybe I should frame this and hang it on my wall! :leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 That is for grades 4 and above? The questions seem to start in the 2nd Reader. Both my boys finished the first reader in their second grade year, and I just went ahead and started second reader with them. A little slower, because the selections go up in complexity fast! The parent-teacher guide I have suggests the second reader for about third grade to into the fifth grade year. I took the suggestion to add in a lot of supplementary reading via library books (and I've got some of the old Abeka Readers that I learned from as a child) and that seems to slow them down so that they don't get frustrated. Both boys like to write, so I will mostly take the nature selections and have them use them for written narrations (whales, peacocks have been two favorites) and the rest I use for oral narration. Just another little vintage tid-bit: I have the Illustrated Webster Reader to use and it lends itself to some really good work on syllables. I've found it to be helpful if I see anyone trying to guess at the big words rather than take them apart. My older twin boy has a tendency to do that--he gets in a hurry to get to the end of the story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I often repeat these words to myself: "Just because a curriculum is awesome doesn't mean I have to have it for us to be successful." :001_smile: So well phrased! The questions seem to start in the 2nd Reader. Do you have the older tan 4 volume version? I have the Eclectic 6 volume series. The questions start in book 4, of my pdf version. There is also a rare in between version called "New". And there are "Alternative" volumes 2-5. And the "Moore" and "Christian" versions. McGuffey versions can be confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Do you have the older tan 4 volume version? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm still so undecided about these. I've heard some mention their kids hated them. Why? I so wish I could take a look at these in person. If I do get them, I do think I could use with dd9 (who is a voracious reader, but she does get pronunciation wrong at times) and ds6 who is starting to be a good reader. But I would hate to plunk down the $55 (amazon's price for the set) and not end up using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm still so undecided about these. I've heard some mention their kids hated them. Why? I so wish I could take a look at these in person. If I do get them, I do think I could use with dd9 (who is a voracious reader, but she does get pronunciation wrong at times) and ds6 who is starting to be a good reader. But I would hate to plunk down the $55 (amazon's price for the set) and not end up using them. Go to Gutenberg.org, search for McGuffey and print out same pages. They are off copyright so the entire books are there. See how they do with the first 20 pages or so (not counting all the teacher stuff up front) and then decide if you want to buy them. They are also in Google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=vNsX4Tw_yPAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=mcguffey+readers&source=bl&ots=7FWq9lCmCF&sig=iz8TW0Fkv_df6OIYZCmKmaN4z28&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z_tRUJL_G4nO9QTy14AI&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=mcguffey%20readers&f=false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Go to Gutenberg.org, search for McGuffey and print out same pages. They are off copyright so the entire books are there. See how they do with the first 20 pages or so (not counting all the teacher stuff up front) and then decide if you want to buy them. They are also in Google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=vNsX4Tw_yPAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=mcguffey+readers&source=bl&ots=7FWq9lCmCF&sig=iz8TW0Fkv_df6OIYZCmKmaN4z28&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z_tRUJL_G4nO9QTy14AI&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=mcguffey%20readers&f=false Thank you so much! That is very helpful. I'm going to look at them today :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) primer First Third Fifth Sixth Hmm...while I'm searching for these, I see that the "new" McGuffey readers are not rare anymore :-0 The ones that are like the orange and blue hardcovers, are published by American Book Company. EDIT: hmmm...Some of the "new" Mcguffey's are also published by American Book Company. :-0 Edited September 13, 2012 by Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 This post from awhile ago might help you with levels: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=1063188&postcount=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm still so undecided about these. I've heard some mention their kids hated them. Why? I so wish I could take a look at these in person. I wasn't a fan of these. For a classic reader, I much preferred the Harriette Treadwell books... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I wasn't a fan of these. For a classic reader, I much preferred the Harriette Treadwell books... The Treadwell are literature based. McGuffey's Eclectic are based on systematic progress through a wordlist. OCD teachers like the McGuffey's Eclectic :lol: Treadwell is pretty, and a nice supplement, but I can't TEACH anything other than cultural literacy from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The Treadwell are literature based. McGuffey's Eclectic are based on systematic progress through a wordlist. OCD teachers like the McGuffey's Eclectic :lol: Treadwell is pretty, and a nice supplement, but I can't TEACH anything other than cultural literacy from them. That's true, but since I just wanted something to read for fluency practice/oral reading/supplement (not a systematic program :p), McGuffey was easy to mark off my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 That's true, but since I just wanted something to read for fluency practice/oral reading/supplement (not a systematic program :p), McGuffey was easy to mark off my list. McGuffey's are NOT for everyone! I adore them, but that has a lot to do with my teaching style. I've realized I prefer textbooks written by OCD authors. If I'm going to use a text instead of a living book, I expect it to be systematic. We are unique at teachers. Our students are unique as learners. There is no such thing as a "right" way or an "only" way. If it works, use it. If it doesn't, toss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 McGuffey's are NOT for everyone! I adore them, but that has a lot to do with my teaching style. I've realized I prefer textbooks written by OCD authors. If I'm going to use a text instead of a living book, I expect it to be systematic. We are unique at teachers. Our students are unique as learners. There is no such thing as a "right" way or an "only" way. If it works, use it. If it doesn't, toss it. :iagree: (But don't "toss it"... these resale fairly well! :p) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 :iagree:(But don't "toss it"... these resale fairly well! :p) How many of us have literally thrown books? I have on multiple occasions. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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