Vent!

[kewb]

Here it is, day 5 of the new school year and I think I have reduced my 9th grader to tears on 3 of those days.

 

I don't know if it is the position of the planets, the fact that he is 14, or low blood sugar. All I know is he is frustrating me beyond belief.

 

My apoplectic moment of the day, the short version: Simple question-Relate 3 of the 7 properties of life to the Harp Seal.

 

ds: I don't get it.

me: What don't you get?

ds: They relate to all living things. What is special about the Harp Seal?

me: Nothing is special about the Harp Seal. It could just as easily be a toad or a plant.

ds: There is nothing to relate it. The seal just has it.

me: For example explain how the seal uses reproduction.

ds: It just does.

me: Did you do the reading that explains the 7 properties of life.

ds: No.

me: Do you know what relate it means?

ds: yes.

me: explain it to me.

ds: I can't explain it. I just know it.

me: look it up.

ds: That's not going to help me.

me: (Totally lost temper, shouting) Why don't you start by doing the assigned reading and then you may be able to figure it out. I can't help you if you are not going to do the required reading. And I slammed the book down in front of him.

 

Every day has a moment similar to this. I seem unable to control myself in the face of his obtuseness. I feel like a failure and that he would be better off if I just marched down to the high school and enrolled him so someone else can deal with him.

[Janice in NJ]

Kathy,

 

Sending hugs.

Lots of hugs.

 

9th grade can be so hard because of so many factors. Ninth graders are young. And very many of them act it.

 

But this is 9th grade. And sometimes we moms need to recognize that we might treat them differently because we expect them to act like they care more than they did last year.

 

But the kid can't figure out why you seem so touchy lately. After all, you weren't like this last year.....

 

Sending chocolate. And hugs. It does get better.

 

And I wish that the answer was a simple as location. Unfortunately the local schools don't seem to be doing an amazing job of taking disinterested students and making them interested students. The kids who excel there would, mostly likely, have excelled anywhere. Trust me. If your kid doesn't naturally "look things up on his own", he won't suddenly start looking them up just because he is in school.

 

Own of the hilarious parts of visiting colleges and filling out college applications and reading essays and practicing interviewing skills with a high school senior is this exact issue. I can't tell you HOW many schools have said, "We have small classes here. If you are used to hiding in the back of the room where no one notices you, you are going to find life on this campus very different." Then all of the kids on the student panel chime in (with their prepared responses), "Yes, my XXXX class was very interactive. There were only eighteen kids in the class, and the professor expected us to actually do the reading ahead of time so we could actively participate in the discussion. In our honors class, we actually sit in a circle; the teacher expects us to do most of the talking. You can't hide here. It's very different from high school."

 

My daughter was shocked. But hey - she was also shocked when she took a college lit class where one student set his books down, dropped his head to the table, and slept through the entire class.

 

Our kids ROCK at class participation. There is NO class where they don't have to perform. 100% of the time.

 

Rock on, Momma! Rock on!!!! They will thank you.

 

Peace,

Janice

[HistoryBuff]

First off, thank you for that Spanish link. I am on year 3 teaching my son Spanish and always looking for more resources.

 

Secondly, I have a 14 year old son so I can relate.

 

I really did not want to home school this year the the first few days I was nursing a bad tooth, then had an extraction.

 

Talk about a way to start the year.

 

Can you take a break from questions and answers and let your son do more computer games/work on his own pace with the material online/let him watch a dvd on the subject?

 

Maybe turn it into a game?

 

I know I have to mix it up all the time with my son because he has a limited attention span and special needs (in certain areas).

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:grouphug:

 

That obtuseness. Janice is so right; we're now yelling at them for a cluelessness they didn't even know they had last year. It's hard to remember that. I'm in these trenches, too.

 

One practical suggestion: Model what you want, every time your student hits that wall.

 

He can't understand what you want regarding the Harp Seal. Talk through the entire exercise at the blackboard, with you doing the explaining and the answering, using a similar animal as your example. Then, do another one together, using one more similar animal, with yourself verbally asking the questions and helping him find the answers.

 

Then assign the independent work about the Harp Seal. He's seen it, he's helped do it, now he's doing it.

 

I've used this method for the most outrageous things these past two weeks. Skills that they should have, conclusions they should draw...but for some reason they can't. Teaching it, modeling it, and doing one together almost always works.

 

For one of my dc, I often think he just wants the extra attention. I can't always even tell whether he's genuinely confused, overwhelmed, or just uninterested. Taking the time to go through it with him always solves it, whichever problem is afflicting him.

[kewb]

Thank you, ladies. I feel myself taking a step back from the abyss.

 

Janice, you are right about the expectations. Even though we had numerous discussions over the summer about the increased work load and time management and type of work he will be doing, it is different in practice.

And, I know the high school is not the simple fix I desire (especially after the hoop jumping I did so my homeschooler could swim on the high school team this year) but when I am having an out of body experience watching myself be a loon it sounds so appealing.

 

HistoryBuff, sorry about the bad tooth. It is difficult to teach when you are not feeling well. Thank you for the suggestions.

 

TibbieDunbar: Thanks for the modeling reminder.

 

I can do this. I can get myself back under control. Tomorrow is a new day.

[regentrude]

Relate 3 of the 7 properties of life to the Harp Seal.

ds: I don't get it.

me: What don't you get?

ds: They relate to all living things. What is special about the Harp Seal?

me: Nothing is special about the Harp Seal. It could just as easily be a toad or a plant.

ds: There is nothing to relate it. The seal just has it.

me: For example explain how the seal uses reproduction.

ds: It just does.

 

 

When I read this, my first thought was: what a strange way to phrase the assignment. "Relate 3 of the 7 properties of life to the Harp Seal" - I would not get it either. I'd probably answer "it just does" as well.

Now, of course it is not OK that he does not do the assigned reading. He must. But can it be that he is seriously stumped by this rather odd way of asking for what (I assume) it is they want?

Edited September 11, 2012 by regentrude

[kewb]

I typed the question in my post from my fuzzy memory.

The complete question was:

Relate 3 of the 7 major themes of biology to the life of a harp seal.

 

And I should mention-the required reading clearly labels and describes the seven major themes. And we spent a good 20-25 minutes discussing Biology and what it is and how things interact.

 

However, at the end of the day, when the house is quiet and I can think straight, it is possible that the phrasing of the question was throwing him and he really did not understand what it was he was supposed to do and I was failing at getting through to him.

[LisaBoo]

I'm not near 9th grade yet so I can't really identify BUT I do listen to a lot of seminars from Love and Logic. They have some great talks on teens, maybe that might help. http://www.loveandlogic.com/

[craftymama]

You have scared me. I feel like I am already dealing with this from my seven year old. And now it seems it will last forever AND get worse.

[KAR120C]

I typed the question in my post from my fuzzy memory.

The complete question was:

Relate 3 of the 7 major themes of biology to the life of a harp seal.

 

And I should mention-the required reading clearly labels and describes the seven major themes. And we spent a good 20-25 minutes discussing Biology and what it is and how things interact.

 

However, at the end of the day, when the house is quiet and I can think straight, it is possible that the phrasing of the question was throwing him and he really did not understand what it was he was supposed to do and I was failing at getting through to him.

He might not have understood it, honestly... but house rules here are that you only get to ask after you've done your part. If you're baffled, and you haven't done the reading, do the reading. Period. If you're baffled after you've done the reading, come talk to me.

 

If nothing else it reduces the yelling... ;) But actually I think it's an important point too, that Mom isn't going to answer every little question until you've put in your time and done what you can with what you have first.

[BlsdMama]

I'm sorry. Knowing what you've gleaned from the conversation so far, my conversations going forward would look different.

 

"Have you read the assignment?"

"No."

"Go do it. I'll talk to you when you're done."

 

If he says, "Yeah." Then I would proceed with questions.

 

If he cannot answer said questions, then it would look different still. I wouldn't fight about the current problem, just make a readjustment in that he has to outline assignments and/or take notes for me to review. The reason NOT being to "punish" but to see if he can extrapolate relevant information from non-relevant information in a non-fiction source.

 

No sense in fussing over spilt milk. ;) Just change the tactic and go forward. Teen-agers, from what I've seen, really want to be recognized for being young adults. My son wouldn't like being orally quizzed, but wouldn't mind taking notes or completing an assignment or an outline.

[MomatHWTK]

I typed the question in my post from my fuzzy memory.

The complete question was:

Relate 3 of the 7 major themes of biology to the life of a harp seal.

 

 

That phrasing is even more confusing than that of your original post. ;) I understand that the assigned reading used that terminology, so it should have been less confusing for your Ds had he done the reading. But, I wouldn't have thought of the 7 characteristics as "themes."

 

I think the curriculum you are using may be trying to adapt the student to more sophisticated phrasology. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but may take some time to learn. "List" or "Describe" are probably more my speed. :D

 

ETA: Finding out that my student hadn't done the assigned reading would probably make my head explode.

Edited September 11, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[OLG]

Having lived through this, I will only say part of it IS the phrasing of the question which does need clarification (have them repeat and rephrase the question if you/they are unclear) and the 'other' part is that , imho, boys at this age are simply finding that they can 'test' you, push your buttons etc. and maybe even unconsciously enjoy this! Try to find the humor in it between you and rest assured they do get over it! Good Luck.

[Mom22ns]

Every day has a moment similar to this. I seem unable to control myself in the face of his obtuseness. I feel like a failure and that he would be better off if I just marched down to the high school and enrolled him so someone else can deal with him.

 

:lol::lol:

 

I'm sorry. I know I should't be laughing, but I can't help myself. You need a bit of time alone, with chocolate and maybe alcohol if you drink it ;).

 

Next time, end the conversation when you get to:

"Have you read the assignment?"

"No."

 

When I get to that point, it is always with dd not ds, then I just say, "Oh well that explains it. You'd better get to reading."

 

If she didn't understand after reading it, I'd have her read it aloud to me, and after each of the 7 sections, I'd have her tell me how the animal of her choice relates to that theme. Then let her go answer the question for the seal :).

 

Try to stay calm. It is far easier to say than to do, but this too shall pass.

 

:grouphug:

[regentrude]

Knowing what you've gleaned from the conversation so far, my conversations going forward would look different.

 

"Have you read the assignment?"

"No."

"Go do it. I'll talk to you when you're done."

 

If he says, "Yeah." Then I would proceed with questions.

 

:iagree:

 

I wish I could do this with my college students when they ask questions they would not have if they had done their reading assignments.

[kewb]

Now that I have had some alone time and some Mallowmars (the best cookie ever) I am able to laugh at this. I think I need to relax. I am definitely feeling the countdown to college pressure. It is always swirling in the back of my head that 9th grade really matters. It is high school. No one looks at anything before high school but now it counts and if I screw it up then I will have ruined his life.

 

As long as I can remember this mellow feeling tomorrow it will be a better day. Maybe I should start the day with a mallowmar.

[tex-mex]

One practical suggestion: Model what you want, every time your student hits that wall.

 

He can't understand what you want regarding the Harp Seal. Talk through the entire exercise at the blackboard, with you doing the explaining and the answering, using a similar animal as your example. Then, do another one together, using one more similar animal, with yourself verbally asking the questions and helping him find the answers.

 

Then assign the independent work about the Harp Seal. He's seen it, he's helped do it, now he's doing it.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Just remember we are dealing with an immature brain at this age. They can be obtuse and may need us to model how to answer a question. Hopefully by Halloween, it won't be the case? Hang in there.

[jhschool]

At the risk of sounding horrid, I will say I don't like the questions in that Biology curriculum. They seem fake and contrived.

Your son may be expressing such a feeling, maybe. And maybe the reading is boring?

I don't know--I probably shouldn't suggest it; but the beauty of these forums is we can give our honest opinions, and hopefully help each other. So please don't be offended; I don't mean to be rude in the

least. But this Biology curriculum, with that kind of question (I read the correct one), would drive me nuts. It seems developed by "educators" rather than scientists; and frankly, he could always look up the seal thing. He may be wanting more sophisticated learning, harder science, more real stuff.

I think 9th graders tend to act like this when they are bored and unchallenged. Maybe yours needs a different book with more reasonable questions? I would be completely baffled by that question. "Themes?"

[MomatHWTK]

Maybe I should start the day with a mallowmar.

 

 

Brilliant!

[alpidarkomama]

But can it be that he is seriously stumped by this rather odd way of asking for what (I assume) it is they want?

 

:lol:

 

That was my first thought too! We're seriously into biology around here, but that question made me say "HUH?"

[kewb]

At the risk of sounding horrid, I will say I don't like the questions in that Biology curriculum. They seem fake and contrived.

Your son may be expressing such a feeling, maybe. And maybe the reading is boring?

I don't know--I probably shouldn't suggest it; but the beauty of these forums is we can give our honest opinions, and hopefully help each other. So please don't be offended; I don't mean to be rude in the

least. But this Biology curriculum, with that kind of question (I read the correct one), would drive me nuts. It seems developed by "educators" rather than scientists; and frankly, he could always look up the seal thing. He may be wanting more sophisticated learning, harder science, more real stuff.

I think 9th graders tend to act like this when they are bored and unchallenged. Maybe yours needs a different book with more reasonable questions? I would be completely baffled by that question. "Themes?"

 

I don't think you sound horrid or rude. Honest feedback from the heart is always welcome. The reason I vented here was because I knew I was the one out of control and I needed to hear different opinions.

[Guest hsmomforlife]

Here it is, day 5 of the new school year and I think I have reduced my 9th grader to tears on 3 of those days.

 

I don't know if it is the position of the planets, the fact that he is 14, or low blood sugar. All I know is he is frustrating me beyond belief.

 

My apoplectic moment of the day, the short version: Simple question-Relate 3 of the 7 properties of life to the Harp Seal.

 

ds: I don't get it.

me: What don't you get?

ds: They relate to all living things. What is special about the Harp Seal?

me: Nothing is special about the Harp Seal. It could just as easily be a toad or a plant.

ds: There is nothing to relate it. The seal just has it.

me: For example explain how the seal uses reproduction.

ds: It just does.

me: Did you do the reading that explains the 7 properties of life.

ds: No.

me: Do you know what relate it means?

ds: yes.

me: explain it to me.

ds: I can't explain it. I just know it.

me: look it up.

ds: That's not going to help me.

me: (Totally lost temper, shouting) Why don't you start by doing the assigned reading and then you may be able to figure it out. I can't help you if you are not going to do the required reading. And I slammed the book down in front of him.

 

Every day has a moment similar to this. I seem unable to control myself in the face of his obtuseness. I feel like a failure and that he would be better off if I just marched down to the high school and enrolled him so someone else can deal with him.

 

I think you get a :grouphug:!

 

My ds14 has taken 8.5 weeks to get 2 weeks worth of science done. When I asked him today if he realized how far behind he was...he said 'no' and I told him he should be on Mod 8 and he's just finishing mod 2! He said, 'How can I be that far behind when we just started school two weeks ago?" and I reminded him that THIS course was supposed to be started at the beginning of August!!

Oh!

Needless to say that the fact that he completely ignored my instructions on how to work through module one and did it 'his' way resulted in a 55% on his module 1 test (I normally don't test, but decided he needed SOME sort of 'consequences') because he didn't 'do the work'. We talked about his grade and how much work it would take for him to pull that 55% out of the toilet to be able to earn the B that he needed to have to get a discount on his car ins...

Today, he worked through module 2, did everything in the order that I set before him....and got a 99 1/6% on his module test! THEN he says...a couple more like that Mom, and I won't have to worry about that 55% anymore!"

More than grades or percents he realized that sometimes we have to put work into learning things that may not feel comfortable right away, but we have to trust those with more experience to help us work it through.

 

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I've been interrupted at least a dozen times!!:001_smile:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Just remember we are dealing with an immature brain at this age. They can be obtuse and may need us to model how to answer a question. Hopefully by Halloween, it won't be the case? Hang in there.

 

Worst case by Halloween, there should be lots of chocolate available in emergency ration sizes.

[Mom22ns]

Now that I have had some alone time and some Mallowmars (the best cookie ever) I am able to laugh at this.

 

Maybe I should start the day with a mallowmar.

 

Worst case by Halloween, there should be lots of chocolate available in emergency ration sizes.

 

I think you have found the path to maintaining sanity while homeschooling a teen. If only it weren't so hard on the waist line! :lol:

[mom2jjka]

Oh.my.goodness - YES!

I have my first high schooler this year and I am just...speechless... at the level of cluelessness.

 

DD - "I need help...I can't find the answer"

Me: (Opens book - answer is as plain as day in the second paragraph. ) "You really couldn't find that? It's right there. Did you actually do the reading?"

DD: "Yes...I just didn't know THAT's what they were asking!"

 

2 minutes later :

DD: "I need help"

 

Repeat ad nauseam

[SailorMom]

 

9th grade can be so hard because of so many factors. Ninth graders are young. And very many of them act it.

 

But this is 9th grade. And sometimes we moms need to recognize that we might treat them differently because we expect them to act like they care more than they did last year.

 

But the kid can't figure out why you seem so touchy lately. After all, you weren't like this last year.....

 

 

:iagree:

:lol::lol::lol:

Yes- we're having those days as well. Mallomars sound like a really good idea.......

[Murphy101]

Ya'll are crazy nice.:)

 

Ds: I can't find the answer.

 

Me: did you read it?

 

Ds: sorta...

 

Me::001_huh: (ds huffs and puffs and steams out of room)

 

Ds: I still can't find the answer

 

Me: did you outline the chapter?

 

Ds: um...

 

Me::001_huh: (ds huffs and puffs and steams out of the room)

 

Ds: I still can't find the answer!!! I hate this book!

 

Me: let me see the question. I then read question out loud.

 

Ds: wait! What?! That's not the question I was looking for!? (grabs paper and realizes he didn't read the question correctly.) oh crap. Nm. I knew THAT!

 

Me::001_huh:

 

Similiar stuff happens repeatedly all day multiple days a week.

[KAR120C]

Ya'll are crazy nice.:)

 

Ds: I can't find the answer.

 

Me: did you read it?

 

Ds: sorta...

 

Me::001_huh: (ds huffs and puffs and steams out of room)

 

Ds: I still can't find the answer

 

Me: did you outline the chapter?

 

Ds: um...

 

Me::001_huh: (ds huffs and puffs and steams out of the room)

 

Ds: I still can't find the answer!!! I hate this book!

 

Me: let me see the question. I then read question out loud.

 

Ds: wait! What?! That's not the question I was looking for!? (grabs paper and realizes he didn't read the question correctly.) oh crap. Nm. I knew THAT!

 

Me::001_huh:

 

Similiar stuff happens repeatedly all day multiple days a week.

I've had DS read me the question out loud.... That almost always solves it!

[kewb]

Ya'll are crazy nice.:)

 

Ds: I can't find the answer.

 

Me: did you read it?

 

Ds: sorta...

 

Me::001_huh: (ds huffs and puffs and steams out of room)

 

Ds: I still can't find the answer

 

Me: did you outline the chapter?

 

Ds: um...

 

Me::001_huh: (ds huffs and puffs and steams out of the room)

 

Ds: I still can't find the answer!!! I hate this book!

 

Me: let me see the question. I then read question out loud.

 

Ds: wait! What?! That's not the question I was looking for!? (grabs paper and realizes he didn't read the question correctly.) oh crap. Nm. I knew THAT!

 

Me::001_huh:

 

Similiar stuff happens repeatedly all day multiple days a week.

 

 

I have had that conversation, too.

 

I have to say, since posting my vent and listening to the advice I have gotten-yesterday I managed not to lose my cool at all. He was still obtuse but at least I was able to see it for what it was and we were able to work through it.

 

I am hopeful it was just a rough transition from summer to shool and that I will have a t least 5 days of sorta, kind of, peace.

 

The mallowmars definitely help.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think you have found the path to maintaining sanity while homeschooling a teen. If only it weren't so hard on the waist line! :lol:

 

Well, I get lots of workouts in while my kids are at swimming and cross country.

[ValRN]

I enjoyed reading this thread because I also have a feigning (I say that because he is very bright) clueless 14 year old/9th grade ds. He got a 52 on an open book quiz because he was too lazy to look at the book or forgot to look at the book or just did not even give a hoot.

 

He was testing me to see how much work he could get out of. I'm not going for it this year. DH and I told him either he steps up or he takes another year of 8th grade. That seemed to do the trick because things have gotten much better.

 

:grouphug: to you. There is hope.

[bobbeym]

I feel like I'm in the midst of friends on this thread. My DS14/9th grade and I have the same kinds of conversations every night when I ask him about his work.

 

DS: I didn't do it because I didn't understand what they were asking.

me: Did you ask your dad or DIL?

DS: No.

me: Why not?

DS: {shrugs}

me: {sigh} Go do it now.

DS: slouches off to get it done

me to DH: You NEED to be checking on his work every day!

[Mom2boys]

I'm still having some of these issues with my ds15/10th grade. I've graduated from chocolate to margaritas. :D

[tex-mex]

Worst case by Halloween, there should be lots of chocolate available in emergency ration sizes.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: