Diagramming sentences? Why?

[oceandaughter]

I always thought this was so unnecessary when I was a kid. I kind of felt like it was busy work. What is the point of sentence diagramming?

 

Jo

[kim in ks]

I agree, and have never taught It , our second son went to college, and has never needed it either!

We use Easy Grammar, and it has them mark the parts of speech, which has worked well for our kids

kim

[chaik76]

I think diagramming sentences gives you a more complete overview of what grammar is all about. I believe that it eventually helps children to write better, because they're more aware of WHAT they're writing...and what types of words they're using. Of course, I was an English major...that may color my thinking a little!:D

[ladydusk]

My husband, the abdicate-all-things-school-related to me, has one request: that I teach diagramming sentences (of all things LOL) He says that it helps him understand the meaning of written statements a lot better. I can still see him parse sentences in his head when he's trying to figure them out. We'll do diagramming here for sure. (Oh, and he's a Software Developer)

[oceandaughter]

So maybe it's a good thing for some and not for others.

 

English/writing/reading were always my strong subjects and I just "got" them naturally. Perhaps that is why I found diagramming so tiresome.

 

Keep them coming, y'all always make me think.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I like what SWB says in Writing With Ease. She says diagramming helps teach kids to write well organized sentences. For example, diagramming can help pinpoint the problem in a grammatically correct yet awkward sentence. You can read the explanation on line at Peace Hill Press. Scroll down to The Three Stages pdf.

[Mallory]

I always liked it.

 

But I think it really helps visual students. So often if your child is good in LA they are more of a word person then a diagrams person anyway.

 

Would you (or your kids) rather have a map or directions to get somewhere? Do you like geometry? As we like to say in our family, "Are you 'spatial' "?

[ga girl]

I have one that struggles with grammar. We tried EG and it just didn't click. Once we started diagramming, a lightbulb went on and he seems to get it. Maybe the visual aspect of seeing the sentence broken down instead of all of the words just running together on the page.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Connie

[sweetTN]

I always found it very boring in school. I feel if you read good literature you get an understanding of what is correct and what isn't. If you can speak correctly you can usually write correctly. Personally I think the person who came up with names for every type of word just had too much time on his/her hands.

[Rhondabee]

I like what SWB says in Writing With Ease. She says diagramming helps teach kids to write well organized sentences. For example, diagramming can help pinpoint the problem in a grammatically correct yet awkward sentence. You can read the explanation on line at Peace Hill Press. Scroll down to The Three Stages pdf.

 

 

which, I realize some people think R&S-7 is overkill. But my ds is learning how to write *really* good, complex sentences.

 

:001_smile:

Rhonda

[Debbie in OR]

There are many articles that will give you the technical side of the benefits of diagramming but all I have to offer is anecdotal! I was in an honor's English class in high school but did not really begin to understand writing/grammar UNTIL I started learning to diagram. I remember the day I was working on a diagram and all-things-fuzzy about grammar suddenly became crystal-clear in front of my eyes; it was like trumpets went off and I fully expected a crown to appear on my head. I've loved diagramming ever since. But that's just me. (I also love Brussels Sprouts, so, ya know....)

[CAMom]

I've loved diagramming ever since. But that's just me. (I also love Brussels Sprouts, so, ya know....)

 

Hey! I love diagramming and brussel sprouts, too!:lol:

 

I was going to answer the original question with, "Because it's fun?";) Nothing like getting out a ruler and drawing a pretty picture of a sentence!

[2cents]

I like the way diagramming cements everything into place. The children can memorize and recite what the parts of a sentence are but when they diagram, they get to see how the pieces all go together. It is like the icing on the cake. We like diagramming and turn it into a game to see who gets the right answer.

[Debbie in OR]

Hey! I love diagramming and brussel sprouts, too!:lol:

 

:seeya:Waving to you (there are so few of us, you know!)

[Mom2GirlsTX]

Posted by CAMom

Hey! I love diagramming and brussel sprouts, too!

 

:seeya:Waving to you (there are so few of us, you know!)

:iagree:

 

I love diagramming sentences!

[Chris in CA]

I never really understood the need until my dd did Analytical Grammar. Now I think it is essetial to a complete understanding of grammar

[ekarl2]

Labeling the sentence only shows you what part of speech each word is. It is the diagraming that shows what the parts of the sentence are. You can successfully label a sentence and not be able to tell what the subject, verb, direct object, etc. are. It's the "jobs" of the sentence that are important to know. Just IDing the parts of speech doesn't tell you anything.

This is imperative when you get to complex sentences. Imagine having to describe a sentence this way:

 

This sentence is a pattern two sentence with a subject, action verb, and direct object. The subject is the understood "you." The direct object is an infinitive clause with its own subject and verb(al). The "to" is understood in that clause.

 

Want to know what sentence that is? Looks complicated when you have to use words to describe what words are doing. The sentence is ....

 

 

"See Spot run."

 

Drawing the diagram would be so much faster and leave no room for error.

[Rosie_0801]

It seems to me that it's a good foundation for second language learning. If you don't understand how your own grammar works, you will have very big headaches trying to learn someone else's.

Rosie

[Spy Car]

Labeling the sentence only shows you what part of speech each word is. It is the diagraming that shows what the parts of the sentence are. You can successfully label a sentence and not be able to tell what the subject, verb, direct object, etc. are. It's the "jobs" of the sentence that are important to know. Just IDing the parts of speech doesn't tell you anything.

This is imperative when you get to complex sentences. Imagine having to describe a sentence this way:

 

This sentence is a pattern two sentence with a subject, action verb, and direct object. The subject is the understood "you." The direct object is an infinitive clause with its own subject and verb(al). The "to" is understood in that clause.

 

Want to know what sentence that is? Looks complicated when you have to use words to describe what words are doing. The sentence is ....

 

 

"See Spot run."

 

Drawing the diagram would be so much faster and leave no room for error.

 

Outstanding post!

 

Bill :001_smile:

[mommylawyer]

I had to do it, so will my kids. *Joking, sort of.

 

No, really, I believe it helps to reinforce parts of speech and to write better sentences.

[JaneGrey]

It can be helpful but is not required.

 

I think diagramming involves two skills: (1) understanding how the word is functioning in the sentence, and (2) understanding how to make the diagram. The former is the goal and the latter is simply a tool for teaching that goal. This may seem like splitting hairs, but I think it is an important distinction.

 

It is quite possible to teach the former before teaching the latter. In that case, the ability to diagram would simply prove that the person has a solid grasp of grammar. That's what I've found. It also seems to me that it is faster to "take apart" a sentence mentally than to diagram it.

 

This isn't to say that diagramming shouldn't be taught; I just think that you have to keep its purpose in mind. (For example, I think it is overkill to diagram out a phrase like "in the morning." Can you think of why you'd ever need to break this phrase up as you would on a diagram?)

 

Sentence diagramming is an effective visual tool with clear rules. It's no wonder that it's used. Again: I just can't say that it is necessary.

 

Ah, if only we could teach grammar just by reading good literature!

[manylilblessings]

Just chiming in that I love diagramming and brussel sprouts too. Yea! There's a small colony of us! Maybe those two passions share a gene.

 

My daughter, who loves Language Arts loves brussel sprouts.

 

My son, who hates Language Arts, hates brussel sprouts.

 

I wonder how FLL 3 and diagramming will go this year.

[Michelle in MO]

Abeka grammar starts diagraming sentences in their third grade book (simple stuff like subjects and verbs).

 

I think it's a very useful tool; it reinforces to the child what the different parts of speech are as you're working through the sentence. It also shows how the sentence is structured.

 

I haven't read through all of the posts, so perhaps someone has already mentioned this, but I heard SWB speak once and she diagramed some poor sentences from college students faster than lightning and showed how the diagrams help to diagnose exactly what is wrong with that sentence.

 

Obviously different opinions on this one, but I think it's a very useful skill.

[Haiku]

 

I think diagramming involves two skills: (1) understanding how the word is functioning in the sentence, and (2) understanding how to make the diagram. The former is the goal and the latter is simply a tool for teaching that goal. This may seem like splitting hairs, but I think it is an important distinction.

 

 

I think that is very true. I was in two college-level English classes in high school. I went on to major in journalism (for a time), do a lot of professional writing, and work as an editor.

 

My freshman year of hs, I failed the quarter of English that we spent diagramming. My junior year we spent another quarter on it. I got a D.

 

I understand how grammar works. I have never understood how to draw the stupid diagram.

 

Tara

[JaneGrey]

Oops --

 

My last sentence should be edited. Tried to do that last night but I needed to go to bed.

 

I actually meant: "Ah, if only we could teach grammar by having children read good literature." This would be better, though:

 

"Ah, if only we could learn grammar by reading good literature!"

 

Any way you say, I know it ain't so. :tongue_smilie:

 

Hey ya, Tara! Big wave from my direction.

[Debbie in OR]

Just chiming in that I love diagramming and brussel sprouts too. Yea! There's a small colony of us! Maybe those two passions share a gene.

 

My daughter, who loves Language Arts loves brussel sprouts.

 

My son, who hates Language Arts, hates brussel sprouts.

 

I wonder how FLL 3 and diagramming will go this year.

 

And I wonder if you love FLL3 if you will also love Brussels sprouts????

(That is very funny, BTW! We could start our own support group...)

[Debbie in OR]

Posted by CAMom

Hey! I love diagramming and brussel sprouts, too!

 

 

:iagree:

 

I love diagramming sentences!

 

OK, I am trying not to hi-jack but just had so say that I'm glad there are 3 of us! Maybe it is a gene thing...hmmmm

[Obi-Mom Kenobi]

I agree that diagraming sentences is not essential to write your native language well (we internalize the grammar), although it can be rather helpful. However, I believe it makes a world of difference in someone's abilty to learn, manipulate and use a foreign language. By learning the associated terms of grammar and how they function within a sentence, students will be better placed to understand the grammatical references used in language learning programs and to use them appropriately. Not only is the Padawan Learner learning to diagram senctences in English, he's also learning to do it in his second and third languages of Dutch and Latin. Poor kid... :tongue_smilie:

 

Here's the books we're using. Cheap, easy to use and fun: Better Sentence Structure Through Diagraming, Book 1 and BSSTD, Book 2.

[magistramom]

It's like Sudoku...only it is logic with words. You'll gain better respect from your kids if you approach it as a game (much like spelling books have crosswords and word searches to reinforce the learning). Teaching stores will carry diagramming books - bring one home and treat it as a game.

[Peela]

I like what SWB says in Writing With Ease. She says diagramming helps teach kids to write well organized sentences. For example, diagramming can help pinpoint the problem in a grammatically correct yet awkward sentence. You can read the explanation on line at Peace Hill Press. Scroll down to The Three Stages pdf.

 

Lol, I have read what SWB says about it before, but it does presuppose that kids will CARE enough to analyse their own awkward sounding sentences, lol. My preference is for a more intuitive approach, personally, but I realise that many prefer the more analytical one.

I have had my kids learn diagramming for years, lol, and I am just dropping it now. They can do basic diagramming, but once it gets more complicated, it starts taking a lot of time. Time I would rather spend on other things.

 

I have recently realised that there is more difference between the American and Australian/British grammar that I understood before. We (in Australia) simply use less punctuation. Less commas, in particular. We use what is needed minimally to understand something, for it to make sense. I have been pushing my kids so hard with grammar, American style, and I will continue to have them learn it and mark up sentences, but I have realised I am teaching them more than they need to learn.

 

My 12yo son has been reading a book recently that is printed in America and he keeps coming and telling me its really hard for him to read it because they keep putting commas in strange places, where it doesn't feel natural, and he is getting distracted by it. I hadn't really realised it before, but this is the 2nd time in the last week I have come across this issue. So I am dropping the sentence diagramming at least, because I have realised it's not the same for us, anyway.

[Strawberry Queen]

:iagree: with you Peela.

 

I had never heard of diagramming until I read WTM. I'm in Canada and well grammar is really not an emphasis. Therefore, I'm learning a lot going through FLL:001_smile: I think I will teach it but it's not going to be a hill that I die on. I figure that if we Canucks don't do it and have a good education system, then it's not all bad. Of course, I was clueless as far as grammar goes. Thank goodness that I was/am a compulsive reader so that I absorbed a whole lot.

 

just my .02

[kpupg]

I always thought this was so unnecessary when I was a kid. I kind of felt like it was busy work. What is the point of sentence diagramming?

 

Two reasons here:

(1) I never really "got" grammar fully until I tried to teach diagramming (while learning it myself) to my kids. It was a real light-bulb for me. I am a visual-spatial thinker, and having a diagram makes all the difference in the world. So if you're trying to present infomation in various ways, to appeal to different learning styles or just for variety, diagrams can be an important component of that effort.

 

(2) Diagrams show clearly the relationships between the words/part of speech in the sentence. I guess you could say it takes the understanding of grammar to a deeper level than just naming parts of speech does.

 

Karen

[Kareni]

If you're a fan of sentence diagramming, you might enjoy the following book:

 

Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog: The Quirky History and Lost Art of Diagramming Sentences by Kitty Burns Florey. It is a fun and informative read.

 

See: Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog

 

And a funny story -- I recently found a copy of this book at a local thrift store. It was shelved in the pet section!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Spy Car]

If you're a fan of sentence diagramming, you might enjoy the following book:

 

Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog: The Quirky History and Lost Art of Diagramming Sentences by Kitty Burns Florey. It is a fun and informative read.

 

See: Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog

 

And a funny story -- I recently found a copy of this book at a local thrift store. It was shelved in the pet section!

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thank you for the link, I just ordered this from our library system, it looks like a "fun" read!

 

Bill

[alaws]

I think it definitely helps the visual learners. My son's writing has improved alot. Here's a great website for diagramming: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams2/diagrams_frames.htm

[Mom-to-three-sons]

I agree with Rosie 0801, chaik 76, and Oak Knoll Mom.

 

Personal Testimony: I never diagrammed in school! I always had the same criticism in all my writing, whether high school or college: "Too Wordy". Now I do realize that this has to reflect a poor vocabulary also, but my writing has drastically improved since teaching my children, but specifically my youngest son.

 

I did not teach diagramming to my eldest two. My eldest son's college-level composition is terrific, but his younger brother's needs help!!! I did teach an introduction to diagramming (IMO) to my youngest, using a combination of Simply Grammar and Winston's Grammar. From that point on, things began to click with me. I had taught WG to the youngest two, but I struggled at "getting it" back then. The Simply Grammar used in conjunction with Winston''s seemed to make things clear. I look forward to diagramming for several years. I believe it will help composition and the learning of vocabulary and foreign languages.