How is the class going? Since several of you are enrolled, I thought I would post a reply rather than sending each of you a message. Thank you.

"Walk" is the main verb, and "did" is the helping verb. For support, here's good ol' Warriner: "A verb phrase is a verb of more than one word. It is made up of a main verb and one or more helping verbs." Here is one example he gives: "has spoken" (where the helping verb is in bold). First Language Lessons and Shurley have kids learn a list of the helping (aka auxiliary) verbs. That might be helpful to you.

To crazy4latin: Yes. Before answering, I meant to ask you what you've used from RFP. Unfortunately, I lost the thought. I answered assuming you had no experience with the program. To Capt_Uhura: I don't understand why there are two packages available. One is labeled for homeschoolers. If they both have the same four books, why are they coded differently? To Elizabeth B: Thanks for the other MCT book recommendation.

I really like the poetry series. I'm impressed that he (a) teaches poetry analysis to young kids and (b) makes it full of delight. (I was an English lit major, and I really enjoyed poetry analysis.) I have Classics in the Classroom. I'm one of those who didn't think it was that great, but that was probably because I expected/hoped to get more practical information. However, I'm very excited by the sample of the literature teacher's manual. This is exactly the kind of inspiration I'd like to own. You can apply the technique to other literature. I just need to figure out the difference between the teacher manual and the homeschool package. That's not making sense to me.

Does anyone know what the regular price of the material is? What's the difference between the homeschool package and the teacher manual? I'm confused. Finally, I'm assuming the only problem with using our own versions of the texts is that the page numbering won't match the manual (assuming there are page numbers referenced). Anyone know more about this?? Saw the email notice past office hours today. No surprise that no one answered at 5:30pm. (Side note: someone DID answer at Classical Academic Press. Wow!)

O'Keefe wasn't a very wholesome character. (Of course, van Gogh wasn't living a saintly life either, but I think his work is amazing.) I think it's a good idea to start with the well-known Impressionists (Monet, Cassatt, Degas, Renoir) and Post-Impressionists (van Gogh, Seurat, Cezanne). I like Berthe Morisot, but she's not as well known. I'd cover some of Manet's work too (excluding the nudes). A study of Matisse is fun, because you can do cutouts and discuss negative space. Or you can go chronologically (spirally), starting with Giotto and hitting da Vinci, Michelangelo, Bruegel, Rembrandt, Vermeer, etc. If you're looking for biographies, you can check out Mike Venezia's Getting to Know the World's Greatest Artists series. Discovering Great Artists is a book that studies artists chronologically, with a suggested student project for each artist studies. It's not a favorite of mine, but many seem to like it. Ambleside Online has a suggested rotation of artists (and their work) to study. You might like that. It is not chronological. I also have the Dover cards. They're handy to have around to test the kids on famous paintings and artists. Unfortunately, they don't have a huge selection.

I have friends who have used the Abeka grammar books with great success. Their kids are now in college. One is still using it with her high schooler, who will be taking the ACT. What I've heard is that Abeka has lots of exercises to provide plenty of practice. It sounds similar to Saxon math. You can feel free to skip exercises if you're confident that your child knows that material. There are TONS of wonderful book lists. I've looked at the Sonlight catalog, Veritas Press, Tapestry of Grace, Greenleaf Press (all free) and Biblioplan. You can also check out http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/history.htm for a chronological book list.

You could try visualizing the factors. Use Math U See or other math rods to show the factors in each numerator and denominator. For example: 27/5 x 25/9 Make sure that you have three equal rods to show 3, 3, 3 for 27. Those same length/color rods will be in the 3, 3 for 9. Use a different length rod to show 5. Help the child see that 3/3 = 1. (Same for 5/5 in this problem.) They can go ahead and try "multiplying" without canceling first. Then, you should help them see that they will have to reduce. To reduce, they're just taking out the factors that they could have taken out faster in canceling first.

Have you read "The Mathematician's Lament"? You can find the article online. I read that for inspiration. I also really liked some entries from a blog by Type H Personalities. Check out the Living Math website and join the Yahoo group. There are suggestions for computer games, "living math" books, and manipulatives. Specifically, we have enjoyed the books from the list (Penrose series, Cat in Numberland, I Hate Mathematics by Marilyn Burns, other Marilyn Burns books). I bought Clue Finders but could not get it to work with XP (although it says it should). We also like going through Hands on Equations. I know I could have made it myself, but at the time of purchase, time was more valuable to me. If money is tight, that's something you might consider doing. We also really like Calculus by and for Young People. We use just the worksheets. Check out the author's website, where you'll get more inspiration and materials. You might like the LOF pre-algebra books better. I liked that my kid got to do stoichiometry and cover some biology. Also, you might try some Zaccaro books. Enjoy!

I guess I come close. I don't use a spelling or handwriting program. However, I do have the kids evaluate sentences using the MCT method on a regular basis. (This doesn't take long, except that I come up with or find sentences for my younger one.) I was holding off on proceeding with MCT because I was hoping to combine my two, but I think I'll move ahead with the older. This is really a simple (and wonderful) program to implement. Doesn't sound like you need it, though. It just drives me mad when the subject pronoun is used instead of the object pronoun, and I wanted fun big-picture grammar. I didn't think I'd need a writing program, but I noticed that my older (3rd grade) had trouble summarizing. He wanted to recount everything. I wanted to get on that STAT. So I started this year with WWE, which showed me how to get the result I wanted. I would not turn to WWE expecting to cover grammar. Because of my background, I was able to discuss certain things (grammar, syntax) with him in response to the sentences he wrote. That was fun. For example, I noticed he has a good feel for the use of commas and semi-colons. You would definitely be able to do the same. Now, I use the technique to have kiddo summarize history or science reading so we can combine subjects. He tells me his sentences and then he writes them. I'm supposed to watch. If I notice that he misspells a word or asks me how to spell it, I add that to his spelling list. Every once in a while, I ask him words from his list. The younger one has his own list. During writing, I also check handwriting. This has been a great way to deal with the two kids at the same time instead of having separate writing times. (Since I was using two levels of WWE, I had to be available to read each child their selection. If I had to do it again, I would just get one to get the gist.) This works the best when I have them summarize a chapter or a part of a history read-aloud.

Hello, Tina! Tina was one of the wonderful TOG users I mentioned. She helped me so much to get started. The problem with execution was all my own. I was just wondering recently what I would do if I had a TOG co-op in town. I referred to my TOG binders to work out what I wanted to cover this year. Very inspirational. Some reasons TOG would work well for you: You could give your school-age children their weekly assignments. They are split up by level. That's something that is harder with VP because the recommended reading is not divided up into levels, which is why you see several books on John Calvin (for example). VP has reading for various age levels, but you have to figure out the levels yourself. However, I think you can buy lesson plans to learn how to execute VP. TOG also has nice weekly checklists of things the kids should learn that week per level. These included vocabulary and geography terms. There are also POP quizzes, lapbooks, and other supplemental material. Plus, there are so many TOG users who provide you with free helps! I would suggest getting the digital. The printed version is more of a pain to copy, more expensive, and more unwieldy. I think that's what did me in. What I like about VP is that I can just pull out the cards quickly and get a big-picture overview of what we're doing in one year. Then, I have the freedom to build off of those cards. At first, I wrestled with the focus on Western civilization, but I found that I preferred that to the spattering of other cultures thrown in at apparently random times (primarily thinking of SOTW here). I would instead treat the other cultures as separate units to mesh in. Part depends on how much you want/need as a teacher. You don't get much from VP (as a teacher), but that is reflected in the lower price.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. I've looked at all those programs as well as some others. I own material from SOTW, VP, and TOG. My kids are not much older than yours, so it's not like I'm far ahead to give you good perspective. I would guess SOTW is the easiest to use. However, I never cared for this as a spine. Friends who have used SOTW for 1st-4th have moved into MOH for later elementary. I guess they don't complete another four-year cycle, because MOH is on a five-year rotation. A few years ago, we got the SOTW CDs because my oldest tried them out from the library and liked them. So the kids have listened to all four cycles of these a few times (like lunchtime). I don't bother to have them correlate with what we're doing. As you said, there are many wonderful things about TOG. --I love the author's commentary in TOG. She does a great job pointing to Christ and looking for God in the workings of man. --There are great exercises for the dialectic/rhetoric level. --The books recommended are generally great. Plus, there are so many recommendations. I always want more good books! --The community is fantastic. What a wonderful, supportive bunch of people. No nastiness. I can't say enough good things about them. --Nice assignment charts. --Geography that's included. The TOG maps were better than Knowledge Quest's old maps available to non-TOG users. KQ has redone their maps. However, I've ended up using the VP cards and CDs (crammed into a four-year cycle) as my spine. VP is just a lot easier for me to use, and it provides my 1st grader with great visuals to recall events. (The artwork in SOTW was honestly unattractive.) Plus, they love those songs. It's affordable enough for me to purchase and tweak as desired. I pretty much ignore the reading assignments at the bottom of each card. Instead, I assign them some reading related to that unit (chosen from within VP and from elsewhere). I think that's where an acquaintance had her downfall. She used it with a large family of mostly younger kids. She wanted to switch to TOG. I think she said VP was too time-consuming for her. I think she was trying to read through everything listed on the card. Some of that stuff is pretty dry. I've come around to getting the Teacher Guide on CD. Most of it is a waste for me because there are a whole lot of worksheets. I just use those as oral quizzes occasionally. However, there are a few games you can play. The kids also like the medallions you put on a large map to mark the cards you've covered. Enough rambling. Let me know if you have specific questions.

Do you mean is every figure or event mentioned in SOTW 1 included in that HTTA set? I own the complete HTTA CD set and SOTW on CD. I'm not 100% sure, but I really think it will work. HTTA has A LOT of figures/events. That was the big draw for me. In contrast, I have never used SOTW as a spine partly because certain figures/events, which I thought were important enough to cover, were missing.

Do you mean curriculum or books? You might want to try out some Teaching Company CD or DVD sets. My 3rd and 1st grader are listening to the Ancient Egypt one with me. We question some of the things he says, but he is a good storyteller. I'm very excited about trying out some others with the kids. (They just ended up listening while I was trying a set out and got hooked.) My oldest has listened to Jim Weiss read SOTW 1-4 many times by now. We use this as a supplement. It's not my personal favorite but he's learning while he's sitting there. The younger just listens along. I like Guerber's Story of the Greeks and Story of the Romans better than the Famous Men series. I've just found that there is a lot more information in Guerber's texts. (There's a little bit of editorial but you can ignore that.) You can listen to the Famous Men series for free through Librivox. (Some heavily accented readers, though.) We also like CHOW, as another poster suggested. I love the Genevieve Foster books. The Landmark series and the Sterling Point series are good. There are so many good series and good books out there!

I'm always open to new material. However, the sample online for Exploring Poetry wasn't too enticing. Which books did you find amazing? What did you particularly enjoy? I did notice that the program looks at poets like Shel Silverstein. I have my kids memorize some children's poems because they are fun. However, I don't see a lot of meat in them. I suppose this is a nice place to start for children. Is this because the program is geared more toward writing poetry? Or is it a pretty balanced treatment: analysis and writing? MCT jumps straight into the greats.

I would recommend Michael Clay Thompson's series. The first is The Music of the Hemispheres. (That's what I'm using with two young boys. Sorry; I can't recall if you mentioned the age of your three guys.) I just buy the teacher's manual. If your kids are older, you could probably start with a later one in the series, since his books tend to have review. It is a gentle approach. See the samples online. I highly recommend this material. I love poetry, and this series just fans the flames. It is teaching the children to listen to the sounds of poetry by trying certain exercises. He doesn't rush it. The font is highlighted so you can see as you hear. The only issue might be the choice of certain poets (like Sylvia Plath). But I don't remember any particular selections being inappropriate. If you want something more organized, check out Poetry Primer and The Grammar of Poetry from Logos Press. I've only seen the samples online. What I like is that this series has worksheets for the kids to work out meter and do more exercises. I plan to use these next -- after some more years enjoying poetry.

I referred to this one when teaching phonics. Kiddo liked the "jokes." (There are a handful of them; they're more like sayings.) I was never thrilled with it, but (looking back) I think it gets the job done. I actually skipped the beginning of the book because I used magnetic alphabet tiles to teach blending and a lot of the reading. It was just much more fun and natural for me to do it that way. Since using this, I've read that it is easier for children to blend vowel-to-consonant letter combos instead of consonant-to-vowel. Alphaphonics begins with the former and Phonics Pathways begins with the latter. I thought Alphaphonics was more visually calming. The font was smaller, the pages weren't as busy (there was lots of blank space), and it was thinner. I can't remember why I passed this up and got PP instead. I think Alphaphonics would also get the job done. PP does not have a script, which was appealing to me. I also wanted something cheap (no huge curriculum) and easy to use (nothing bulky). Plus, it didn't look as crazy as the 100 lessons book, which friends used. I may have just gone with PP over Alphaphonics because more people (whose opinion I respected) recommended/had experience with the former than the latter.

I tried TOG two years ago (Year 2). My kids were little, but I wanted to give it a try. This was right before they went digital, so I had the hard copy of the updated TOG. I still own it, and I might go back to it. Now, I'm using the VP cards and history CD along with the SOTW CDs. I liked: (1) all the information, (2) the weekly charts at a glance (including all the levels), (3) the maps, and (4) the literature selections. I also loved the TOG community. The users are soooo helpful. They even have beautiful blogs and supplemental forms. What was the problem? For the young level, I didn't feel like I got my money's worth out of the basic curriculum. I wasn't happy with the end product. Looking back, I think that the lapbooks would have made it a whole lot better for my younger (4 yo). The lowest level reading was fine for him, but he wasn't writing a lot, so we didn't use the worksheets. The older (6 yo) was reading many dialectic selections, but I wasn't having him write a whole lot either. I shouldn't have been surprised, since I'm not big on worksheets. Plus, I did substitute some reading selections, making certain worksheets obsolete. I didn't have the Map Aids. (I already owned KQ's history maps and figured they'd be close enough. Not so. If you use TOG, get the Map Aids!) I already knew I wouldn't be using the Writing Aids. The student pages were all over the book (organized by week instead of grouped together), making it more difficult to copy. (This might be easier in the digital version.) Again, I wasn't even using lots of the worksheets. I knew I'd be tweaking, but I found TOG difficult to tweak because it was so huge. Basically, it was too much information to serve my purpose at the price for the ages I had. So, I switched to using the VP cards. My kids have loved those things and the history songs that go with them. Again, I'm not into the worksheets, so I didn't buy the Teacher Guide. I love (more elaborate) crafts and activities, so I supplement with those types of books. For the price, this works well. The cards give BRIEF glimpses into the material, so you definitely need to supplement. Additional reading suggestions are given on the cards. However, I think VP uses too much historical fiction, and some of the suggestions seem redundant. Also, the reading suggestions are not divided by reading level (the way you see in TOG). You can easily substitute with some KHE/KIHW or Usborne pages of the relevant event. The only problem for me is the 5 year cycle, but I just cram the first two sets into one year. I did consider MFW and Biblioplan, too, but those programs are similar to TOG in terms of providing a schedule. With VP, I feel like I have more flexibility in doing things the way I'd like. I can supplement with SOTW (because younger will do well with that). I do have to add the mapwork myself (which was a pain last year), but it should be easier this year because I'm just going to use my Map Aids from TOG. Hope that helps!

I was estimating the cost of printing the whole thing out from Y1-6 (which is what I considered doing) or at least several years at a time. I like having future material on hand in case we move quickly and to get the big picture. The lesson plans are much longer as you go up. Since it's for classroom use, the lesson plans are detailed with lots of activities. I found myself skipping many of them when I tried this out with #2. I also didn't have him do all the exercises. That translated into a lot of wasted paper. I really liked some of the exercises, though. They were so much fun. I know Julie from Living Math tried bits and pieces of MEP, but it sounded so tedious to do it that way. However, at this point, I'm pretty much resigned to sifting through the MEP material online and printing out what I want. But that's just crazy me.... Thanks for listening.

MCT's grammar is wonderful. I love it for the big picture it gives. I've always enjoyed grammar, but I had quite a time trying to tutor a junior higher (when I was in college). I was using my Warriner's! It was just too much information. I think that's the problem with a lot of grammar programs. When I first saw MCT, I thought it was too simple. You know the feeling: I want lots of information for the price I'm going to pay. However, the simplicity is what makes it so great for teaching. Now, I do supplement with R&S. I'm pretty sure MCT (at least at the elementary level) isn't going to cover things like punctuation, commonly misused words, and tenses: the types of things you'll find in something like Warriner's. For example, I think that after MCT (again, at least at the elementary level), kids could still have trouble when using conjugations of the verbs "to lie" and "to lay." (Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't yet seen the Voyage level.) I don't think it would be bad to delay learning those things. However, you should learn the proper usage of those words at some point. I wonder if he covers that in the junior high books. Also, R&S covers diagramming while MCT doesn't. I'll have to go back to my R&S and see it through your eyes (about thoroughness and clarity of teaching), but I think it would work. To sum it up: It might be worth it to purchase MCT's last grammar book to see his approach. His stuff is really great. If you want a textbook to use year after year, you might like R&S. I think SWB recommends using it for 3rd grade and up. I have a friend who tried both R&S and Shurley. When I was researching, I asked her what the difference was (besides price). She said that Shurley did a better job teaching her grammar. I've also other friends mention that it's a bit of a trick setting up the use of Shurley. R&S is very simple to use. I know friends with older kids who have liked the results they've seen with Abeka. I found FLL incredibly dry.

I use the 1-inch rings too.

Stripe, you might consider the Living Math website. Julie has tons of books listed there, which is how I've heard of the one you mentioned. But thank you for reminding me! I have lists everywhere. Do you own the book? Do you like it? How do you use MEP? Although it is free to use, it is expensive to have printed. It wouldn't work for me if I had to sit at the computer with it.

Stripe: Yes, I've seen MEP. I considered using that as a program for kid #2. (More below.) Most of all, thank you for the book recommendation! I'm all ears for any others. Sue in St Pete: You are too kind! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone else? Anything else besides books? Online courses, videos, etc? I've already bookmarked the Khan Academy. I also just bought some Zome to play with. (Heard about it from the Living Math Yahoo group.) NEW QUESTION: On a related note, could you experts give me a recommendation for kid #2's math program? He's starting 1st grade. I've considered MEP, Singapore (Standards just because I have some of it), and Math Mammoth, but I am suffering from decision deficit disorder. I think the amount that I'm opinionated is inversely related to my age.

SnegouchkaL: Where are you getting Russian Math? Someone just suggested that for #1 and I only see the book from Perpendicular Press. The brief sample didn't impress me, but maybe it's because it wasn't pretty. :tongue_smilie: Can you tell me more about your Russian math? What do you like? Why'd you choose it? What was your runner up? Flaura: Why were you looking at Singapore? What made you choose MM as your math curriculum over MEP? What else were you considering? Did you go into MM midway? I'm very curious. Basically, I'm trying to get my filebox ready with worksheets for #2. I'll be offline for a day, but I'm looking forward to the responses. Thank you!

Yes; thank you. I saw the post before I started this thread. It wasn't quite the information I wanted, though, because I'm wondering how the programs compare all the way through. The taste you gave was too small (one topic at Year 1). :001_smile: I'm greedy, I guess! But Flaura, I just looked at your signature. You're using MEP! Why are you combining it with MM? That's the kind of information I'm looking for. What made you choose that combo over the Singapore? Or are you thinking of switching? Btw, I'd be using Singapore Standards Edition. Thanks for the help!