According to this review, it is at an average 4th grade reading level: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art55685.asp Another place says: "According to Mr. Hillyer, the purpose of this 'basal history study' for nine year olds is to 'have the pupil able to start with Primitive Man and give a summary of World History to the present time, with dates and chief events without prompting, questioning, hesitation, or mistake.'"http://homeschoolchristian.com/Reviews/HillyerHistoryoftheWorld.html My oldest has been reading it.

My vote: yes, you can do it. Last year, we studied ancients. That was our formal history. However, my kids were so interested in American history (came up in talks about stuff) that we ended up reading lots of books on that period. Posted on the boards earlier this week about specific things we used for that study. Wasn't very formal. Oldest (6yo) also sat in a bi-monthly class going through the explorers period (VP cards). This really wasn't because I'm crazy! Just couldn't pass up this teacher and this free class, which was just being offered as a test this year. Hasn't been a problem. Just made sure to show and discuss the big picture and where things fit. You could have two different history periods in your day or split the week in two (half the days one and half the days the other). I'm not so sure about flipping back and forth from one day to the next. Btw, this wasn't time consuming because I eschew the formal study of certain other things at this level. I make them read a lot and I talk and talk and talk and just don't shut up.... :D

I'd like to hear from those who have used one or the other (or both) but didn't like the program(s). Can you give me a detailed explanation of why? I've seen samples of both. I'm concerned with how these things work out and if I'm the kind of person that won't do well with one or the other. Trying to decide between shelling out $$$ for TOG or scrimping with Biblioplan. That's some huge difference in cash outlay. Theoretically, you can use both all the way through hs, too, so I can't justify it that way. Thanks!

Do you still have her great sites?? I know some people like del.icio.us. Can't get into it. Plus, as far as I can tell, you can't post community favorite links.

I get it; you have to buy them separately. They look like they're just the Knowledge Quest Blackline Maps of World History -- at least for yr 1 and 2. What's going on with the maps for yr 3 and 4?

Where are the maps?? I don't have any and I don't see where maps are included in the TOC. (Got my copy of BP yr 3 used.) Maybe that's why it was so cheap.... Don't remember seeing any in the BP yr 1 that I checked out before, either.

BP is just a list of readings divided into a schedule for you. Really, all you need are the pages where the schedules are. (The other pages detail the readings you'll be going through.) Absolutely no commentary; you must purchase a separate spine (whatever is already scheduled in there.) Seems SOTW is included in the BP schedule. MoH can definitely be a spine. It's a nice fat book. She gives you a scripted lesson for each day's work (about a page or two). You are given a schedule of going through MoH itself. Tests and review worksheets, maps, activity ideas, and video suggestions are given. I believe BP only schedules mapping activities; you need to get maps yourself. (I don't see any maps in my BP America and the World.) SOTW AG would give you narration questions to ask, actual maps, review cards to make (I think you color and cut them out), coloring pages, and ACTIVITIES to do. From the AG I saw, these include things like games and crafts. MoH's activities are a little less thrilling.

I didn't do American history exclusively. I covered some in K and then included it in our 1st year of world history study last year. The topic just comes up a lot, and there are lots of great readers. Here are some suggestions: Highly recommend the bios by Jean Fritz. She doesn't make up conversations. She does have a bit of a dry sense of humor -- perhaps a bit irreverent, but it's not like she's talking about things that are holy. There are easier early history readers -- see the 4th and 5th grade history sections in Veritas Press' online catalog. I think they are Step Into Reading books. Fun. We watched some of Liberty's Kids (a PBS program). I know some people are opposed to video, though. There are easy Landmark books (Meet Benjamin Franklin, etc.). Really liked the Columbus one. Bios in the Childhood of Famous Americans series. More imaginative (making up conversations). Some have reference to some violence (Indians stealing Daniel Boone's daughters). The d'Aulaire bios. If you....series by Scholastic. (Some are If you traveled west in a covered wagon, If you sailed on the Mayflower, If you lived at the time of the Civil War). Venezia (who has also written a Getting to Know the World's Greatest Artists series and a parallel composers series) has a series on the presidents. Funny little cartoons and simple text. These have been fun to study presidents. American Kids in History is a nice craft book series. These are by David C. King. Check out Christian Liberty Press for books. I believe Boys and Girls of the Colonial Period is quite popular. CLP also has cheap prices and lots of other readers like the often recommended Child's Story of America. Get the geography songs by the Troxels (the one for the world). It has been fun to listen to. These include several songs from the separate states songs. For a formal study of American history appropriate for that age group, consider Truthquest. These are Christian worldview study guides, but she advises the study of American history in the lower elementary grades. She has American History for Younger Students I and II (maybe also III). Primarily, the books contain lists of books organized by event/topic. She also provides a script interpreting the events you'll be reading about. Very conversational style, if you don't mind that. Samples online. The commentary seems to be quite prized. For a free list of history books to read (organized by time period), check out Paula's Archives. You can also purchase All through the Ages, which is a list of history books for the study of all time periods, organized chronologically and divided by appropriate age level. I have this, but I find that it's easier to just raid the appropriate sections of the library.

Huge difference is that Alpha-Phonics is bare bones. Literally, the page is just filled with letters and short words. Sure, I can see why it's not impressive. You pay $30 retail for words you could have written! However, you'd love Alpha-Phonics if you hate things that are scripted, you're confident teaching phonics, and you're not looking for bells and whistles. It's a nice thin book. It gets the job done. On the other hand, OPG is scripted. Perhaps she wanted more teacher instructions. Perhaps she expected interesting activities to go along with the phonics instruction (such as the ones that Happy Phonics seems to offer).

Is there a place on these boards where someone has collected (and people can add to) links to all fave free homeschool sites -- organized by subject?? Thanks for the post!

Absolutely no problem when I gave mine selections from SOTW to read on his own beginning when he was 5yo. In fact, the reason I didn't rely on SOTW for history last year was that the readings were so easy. (He turned 6.) However, I also decided to call last year 1st grade for purposes of calculating our history cycle. What would you end up doing with your 4-year history cycle? Depending on your answer to that, you might wait til younger turns 4 and begin to read SOTW to them both. I think there'd be more comprehension then for both of them. Not that your 3.5 wouldn't gain anything by beginning it all sooner. Just depends on how much you want them both on the same page.

Can you explain your comments more? I'm wondering if I'm one of those who can't think that way...except I really don't know what way that is. I haven't used a traditional planner because I don't use all the lessons in a given program. Also, I don't necessarily follow one program per subject per year. So, how can I divide up the lessons by weeks?? What I've found myself doing is creating a list of things to cover (usually from various tables of contents) and books that correspond to those subjects. I'm also terrible-rotten-bad at figuring out how long something will take. However, I can sure cram a lot of stuff in when I need to. I think that makes me a procrastinator. I need something that lets me stay flexible but helps me keep some kind of schedule. Mine are little: 6, 4. Maybe I should try it later?

Thought TOG could span all ages? My guys are 6 and 4. Both good readers. The older is a dream student with a great attention span. The younger is ... a busy boy. :tongue_smilie: Didn't realize it was the 2nd year that was jam-packed. Bummer. This is one of my favorite periods, which is why I wanted to do something exciting...that I can buy. If you try to do the 2nd year half-paced, what does that look like? Can you still do history in a 4-year cycle? Thank you all!! :grouphug: (I'm assuming this is a picture of a group hug.)

I'm opposed to lit guides. I can see using or two if you don't feel comfortable asking an older child questions about a work -- just to give you an idea of questions to ask. (Of course, you could get a glimpse of one and start sprinkling those questions on a younger child.) I can also imagine you might want one for a text you've wrestled with. However, at that point, it would probably be better to do some research at a library or look online. I'm actually quite surprised at the proliferation of lit guides for elementary level reading. Seems quite unnecessary. What they need for college is the ability to analyze a given work, organize that analysis, and communicate those thoughts clearly. This doesn't need to be done with everything they read. In another thread today, I posted links for free analyses of various works. You can use these to come up with your own questions for a critical analysis of any given work. Once you know what to look for, it should become easier to see those things.

I looked at TOG for last school year, but a friend discouraged me. She said that a lot of time is spent on the modern period and that the pace for the 3rd year cycle is hectic as a result. Plus, it's huge and expensive. She prefers Biblioplan. I wasn't that thrilled when I looked at Biblioplan year 1, so I passed. Fast forward to now: I'm looking for a schedule. I'm wasting too much time trying to come up with everything on my own. Doesn't matter how much twisted pleasure I find in doing that...I'm tired! I know we still covered lots of stuff, but I ought to teach my kids some discipline even if momma doesn't have much. What I liked when I looked over TOG (classic year 1) were: (1) the lists of vocab to cover, (2) the WB excerpts for an overview, and (3) the activities, which seemed interesting (not just paper cutting). I'm all about lists and fun activities. I manage quite well on the fly. I just need some structure that I'm happy with. Apparently, it's not easy to make me happy! I'm shopping for history for year 2 in the cycle. Biblioplan and Truthquest are cheaper alternatives. TOG might be overkill. Detailed comparisons or review appreciated, especially from those who have used the later TOG years.

Loved the book as a reader. See comments by me and others in this RS4K thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=347188#post347188

The ones at Gutenberg appear to be the Revised ed. by John Wiley & Sons. (Didn't say so til I opened one. I haven't opened them all.) To answer your question, here's a brief comparison from an Amazon reviewer: http://www.amazon.com/McGuffey-McGuffeys-Eclectic-Readers-William/dp/0880620145 Here's a lengthier discussion of the different versions: http://wtmboards.com/K8currJan052007/messages/1877.html

Yes, I've done this, particularly with books that look really old and that I've gotten at a garage/library sale. Made me feel better to wipe the covers. I'd highly recommend a simple water and bleach solution (10:1) to sanitize. Got this recipe from medical professional relatives who told me that this is basically what they use at the hospital. Imagine all the stuff they're trying to kill there. Plus, it's easy to make and CHEAP. I keep it in a labeled spray bottle next to my Oxi Clean mix. Book lice -- yikes! Ignorance was bliss....

Don't waste your money on a lit study guide! That's my feeling in general. Two options: Create your own Create your own form listing questions for him to answer after reading each book. Standard questions would include: list of characters, setting, plot summary, and major themes. You could ask for his opinion on a given character. Ask for a brief report on the author or the setting. To get an idea of topics to cover, visit CliffsNotes and other similar websites: http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/ and http://www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/ Haven't checked these out personally. I have checked this out: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/huckfinn/themes.html. Checked it for my preparation of notes on leading a discussion of Great Expectations. Side note: these things are great for getting you (the teacher parent) quickly up to speed to discuss lit with your children (giving you a big picture). They're considered bad only insofar as students can rely on them (get "addicted") and become unable to come up with this analysis on their own. Something to purchase You're pregnant and busy. Maybe you just want to buy something. Veritas Press recommends a series called How to Report on Books (available at different grade levels). There are probably similar series out there. They're not geared to specific books; they just give you ideas for creative book reports. They recommend the series because people kept asking for lit study guides for each book, and they couldn't keep up with the demand. I haven't seen this series, but Evan Moor (the publisher) generally has samples of their books online.

Here's the link to the correct page on Paula's Archives for correlating SOTW reading with specific Bible story books: http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/SOTWmenu.htm I understand wanting dates. It sure doesn't seem easy for that period, though. Some people have gotten into Ussher's Annals of History for getting dates. Here is a link for info on Ussher (just to give you an idea): http://www.crosscountrysoftware.com/ussher.html I'm pretty sure that Ussher's dates are what Christine Miller relies on (author of All Through the Ages). Veritas Press recommended Ussher (at least for a while). They have different dates on their cards, though.

I really don't think you need the CD. First of all, the tracks are all listed in the book. So you can definitely look them up. However, the book also lists other works by the composer (in case you can't find the exact tracks). Second, they're just suggested listening (that's what the book calls them, too). Personally, I wasn't that thrilled with the tracks (from what I recall). There is only one composition per composer. It didn't seem to be a particularly famous one, either. I wanted a greater variety with shorter snippets. Third, I'm pretty sure that the tracks are referenced in the written material, so you don't have to feel like you're missing out on the text. We had much more fun listening to the Beethoven's Wig CDs (recommended by Bauer). --Sorry you had such a bad experience buying the book.

Definitely think it's possible. Realistically, will it work? For 2nd grade, I think it should be fine to cover grammar this way. My 6yo already covered a lot of grammar through LCI last year, and that was unintentional. I was planning to skip the formal study of grammar for a few years because I see it as a huge time suck. Didn't mean to use Latin for grammar! After using LCI, I found out about LCC. You can always use the Table of Contents of your favorite grammar program as a checklist and pull out random exercises once in a while to "test" your child or cover things that are not covered that year in your Latin program. For later years (I'm talking high school), I wonder how effective this approach is. My hesitation is this: I wonder whether a parent with bad grammar can teach good grammar -- regardless of the Latin program used. In practice, I can see a parent getting stuck in Latin because of the grammar. Then, they're stuck. Waiting for plaid dad....

FYI, the original McGuffey readers are available online free for download at Project Gutenberg. For example, here's the second reader: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14668 I love free.

I bought both just in case, but my 6yo just went through LC I with no problem. I think your 8yo will be fine with it, too. The only part I skipped was the derivatives. Let me know if you want more info on the two.

I think it depends on what you want. Creating art, art history, or both? For the elements of art (line, shape, color, etc.), How to Teach Art to Children is much more thorough than Artistic Pursuits K-3 level Book 1. HtTAtC has several projects listed for each element. The projects are divided into categories: small class, large class, individuals (something like that). Nothing to stop you from doing all the projects, though. I thought the projects were a little boring, but the kids liked them. However, there are some great color projects. AP Book 1 tries to cover art history, the elements of art, and creating art. I really like the ancient art/history projects in the last section of AP Book 1 as well as the nice prints to go along with those projects. Great way to combine history and art. Art history projects are listed in chronological order on Paula's Archives. Very nice. However, I'd still have to find prints. Plus, the kids liked doing the other projects in AP Book 1, so I bought it used. AP is definitely easy to use. The prints make this a much better program than Discovering Great Artists, which I also have. DGA is a black and white book. You have to find the artist and a copy of the artist's work to show the child. I'm still trying to do all that. I'm also still going through the book trying to weed out and schedule projects over a 4-year span. In the meantime, while AP isn't perfect, we at least went through the book with ease. See Paula's Archives for reviews of other art programs, too.