I need some ideas for grammar for this next year. We've been using FLL all the way through (DS levels 1-3; DD levels 1-4 and then Rod and Staff this year), and I'm having to acknowledge to myself that I just don't think it's working. Both kids can rattle off definitions and lists like nobody's business, but ask them to actually identify parts of speech in a sentence when we HAVEN'T just spent five minutes talking about that part of speech, and they look at me like deer in headlights. My son can easily tell you that "A sentence is a group of words that expresses a complete thought" and "All sentences begin with a capital letter and end with a punctuation mark" - and yet he routinely begins his sentences with lowercase letters. 🙄 The memorization just isn't making its way into practical use. I'm looking for something that, ideally, would cover grammar in a thorough but incremental manner, in about 15 minutes a day, with CLEAR explanations, plenty of practice, and in a format/presentation that's attractive and interesting to my kids. DD11 is an artistic, dreamy soul who'd love to spend her whole day drawing and listening to audiobooks; DS9 is a budding engineer who's preoccupied with Legos, pistons, gears, and the like. I don't even know where to begin looking. We've never used (nor really looked at) anything but FLL, and I've kind of been waiting to see if all the memorization would begin to pay off in practical application...but I'm just not seeing it, and I think I'm facing the fact that we need to try something else. Thank you so much for your help!!! Eta: I realized I accidentally posted this in the wrong topic...and as I can't find a way to delete it, please pardon me! 😳 I'll go post in the K-8 curriculum board where it was meant to be.

I need some ideas for grammar for this next year. We've been using FLL all the way through (DS levels 1-3; DD levels 1-4 and then Rod and Staff this year), and I'm having to acknowledge to myself that I just don't think it's working. Both kids can rattle off definitions and lists like nobody's business, but ask them to actually identify parts of speech in a sentence when we HAVEN'T just spent five minutes talking about that part of speech, and they look at me like deer in headlights. My son can easily tell you that "A sentence is a group of words that expresses a complete thought" and "All sentences begin with a capital letter and end with a punctuation mark" - and yet he routinely begins his sentences with lowercase letters. 🙄 The memorization just isn't making its way into practical use. I'm looking for something that, ideally, would cover grammar in a thorough but incremental manner, in about 15 minutes a day, with CLEAR explanations, plenty of practice, and in a format/presentation that's attractive and interesting to my kids. DD11 is an artistic, dreamy soul who'd love to spend her whole day drawing and listening to audiobooks; DS9 is a budding engineer who's preoccupied with Legos, pistons, gears, and the like. They both blanch at the sight of densely-packed or tiny text on a page, and each has a tendency to get lost in their own thoughts if something doesn't hold their attention. I don't even know where to begin looking. We've never used (nor really looked at) anything but FLL, and I've kind of been waiting to see if all the memorization would begin to pay off in practical application...but I'm just not seeing it, and I think I'm facing the fact that we need to try something else. Thank you so much for your help!!!

If you were to do just one more shot of grammar in high school for review, and to make sure everything was covered, what would you use? Pam

Has anyone used Royal Fireworks Press? My DD has taken a creative writing class and tutoring from the company, and we have been extremely impressed. Has anyone put a child into one of their online English Language programs? I have used their home curriculum for the past two years, but my DD has not taken the online curriculum. Any advice? Thank you!

We have decided to leave Classical Conversations and go back to homeschooling on our own this next school year. My son is 11, going in to 6th grade and has completed one year of the CC Essentials program. We actively participated and he did well for the most part, however the rush of the program stresses both of us. I am looking to use Rod & Staff English but having a hard time figuring out which book to choose. Do I choose book 4, 5 or 6 after using CC's Essentials of the English Language? Can anyone here help me?

For grammar and writing for my fifth-grader, I'm planning to use Grammar for the Well-Trained Mind and Killgallon's Middle School materials, and I'm trying to decide whether to use both Killgallon's "Sentence Composing" and "Paragraphs" or just "Paragraphs." Would Killgallon "Sentence Composing" be redundant if I'm using Grammar for the WTM? I think it might make sense to use both, but I can't tell for sure looking at the samples.

Hi all, "Grammar for the Well-Trained Mind," the follow-up to "First Language Lessons," will be available on PDF in just a couple of weeks and in physical form by late September or early October. But we know that many of you are eager to get started, so we're giving away the first six weeks of the curriculum here. This grammar curriculum was formerly known as "Advanced Language Lessons," and you may have heard about it under that title. It consists of a Core Instructor Text (used for all four years), yearly Student Workbooks (the first one is being released now, and #2 is in development), yearly Answer Keys to explain all answers for the Student Workbook, and a Comprehensive Handbook of Rules (a handy reference guide for grammar, useful for all writers of whatever age). The free PDF includes: The first 6 weeks of the Core Instructor Text The first 6 weeks of the Student Workbook for Year 1 The first 6 weeks of the Answer Key for Year 1 (which gives all answers AND thorough explanations) The first part of the Comprehensive Handbook of Rules I'll be available to answer questions in this thread. We will also be releasing explanatory videos in the coming weeks. Follow us on Facebook for updates on that. To answer some possible questions: --Yes, this is good for middle-grade students, but could also be used with high-school students --Yes, it can be pre-ordered on Amazon (but their release dates aren't always accurate) --Yes, some of the sentences in the exercises are drawn from "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies" and "The Princess Bride." --Yes, schools and co-ops can get bulk pricing. Contact us at 1.877.322.3445 or order@welltrainedmind.com Again, the first six weeks are available here. Here's a longer description of the curriculum: Grammar for the Well-Trained Mind takes middle-grade or high school students from basic definitions through advanced sentence structure and analysis—all the grammar skills needed to write and speak with eloquence and confidence. This innovative program, by experienced educator Susan Wise Bauer, combines the three essential elements of language learning: understanding and memorizing rules (prescriptive teaching), repeated exposure to examples of how those rules are used (descriptive instruction), and practice using those rules in exercises and in writing (practical experience). Scripted lessons make it possible for any parent or teacher to use the program effectively. Step-by-step instruction takes students from the most basic concepts through advanced grammatical concepts Extensive diagramming exercises reinforce the rules and help technical/visual learners to understand & use the English language effectively. All diagrams are thoroughly explained to the instructor/parent. Examples and exercises are drawn from great works of literature, as well as from well-written nonfiction texts. Regular review is built into each year of work. Core text is designed to be used effectively with students from fifth grade through high school, regardless of background. The program is easily customizable to each student’s strengths and weaknesses. Description of the Program Each year, parents and teachers go through the dialogue, rules, and examples in the Core Instructor Text; students follow along in the Student Workbook. This repetition solidifies the concepts, definitions, and examples in the student’s mind. The Core Instructor Text provides not only rules and examples, but scripted dialogue that makes it possible for any parent or teacher to use the program effectively, along with instructor notes that thoroughly explain ambiguities and difficulties. There will eventually be four Student Workbooks, one for each year (the Year 1 Workbook will be released first). Each Student Workbook contains the same rules and examples—but four completely different sets of exercises and assignments, allowing students to develop a wide-ranging knowledge of how the rules and examples are put to use in writing. Each Student Workbook has its own Key, providing not only answers, but also explanations for the parent/instructor, and guidance as to when the answers might be ambiguous (as, in English, they often are). All of the rules covered, along with the repeated examples for each, are assembled for ongoing reference in the Comprehensive Handbook of Rules. This will become the student’s indispensable guide to writing through high school, into college and beyond.

2017-18 Well-Trained Mind Academy registration will end on Friday, September 15th. This is your last chance to enroll your student in fall and full-year courses. Register now! View all course descriptions by clicking here! Register by clicking here! All class times are listed in EST.

2017-18 Well-Trained Mind Academy registration will end on Friday, September 15th. This is your last chance to enroll your student in fall and full-year courses. Register now! View all course descriptions by clicking here! Register by clicking here! All class times are listed in EST.

Hi all, Just wanted to let you know that "Grammar for the Well-Trained Mind," our follow-up to "First Language Lessons," is now available in PDF on our website. The physical books are AT THE PRINTER NOW and if you don't think we POPPED CORKS when we sent them out the door then you are WRONG. They should be on our shelves in just a few weeks (6? 5?) and we will announce it here and elsewhere. They can also be preordered from Amazon. Also, SWB filmed three videos explaining and demonstrating this new grammar curriculum. See them on our YouTube channel. Thanks for your patience!

My daughter completed LOE foundations in K-1st. Last year (grade 2), we used the very light language arts in Bookshark (secular Sonlight) and I supplemented with some content from LOE. I had planned to use LOE Essentials this year, but can't bring myself to order. I just hate how long the lessons took in LOE and I wonder if it's a good fit. I also really want my daughter to learn diagramming and I don't see that mentioned in LOE content. Since my daughter has not enjoyed writing, I purchased Writing with Ease 1 for this year and planned to supplement Essentials with it. Now I'm thinking of dropping LOE and using First Language Lessons 3 (also looked at R&S but am leaning more toward FLL). Now, I realize that this will leave me without a spelling program. I've looked at so many spelling programs and don't like many. I like the ones with a workbook activity and think my daughter would enjoy that. She seems to be pretty good at spelling, but I've been having her copy words 2-5 times a day and am a big believer in that. I am thinking of using R&S spelling while continuing to review phonics and spelling rules from LOE. I also like the looks of Spellwell and Spelling Workout. If anyone could give guidance on these spelling programs, that would be wonderful. I need something with limited teaching time. Now, I wonder if this will actually be a time savings. I'm really concerned about giving my new K student enough time. I already feel that I've spent too much time on my older child and that my K child should have been reading last year (he'll be an older K student, turning 6 at end of October). I also have an overactive 2.5 year old. I will be doing LOE Foundations with my K student. Does FLL, WWE, and R&S spelling sound like too much for 3rd grade language arts?

...or whatever the official title is. Has anyone seen the promised sample pages yet? I've been hoping to get a look at it and set up a schedule. I haven't seen any news on it yet, though.

Hi- I'm trying to make sense of the 5th grade logic stage and I'm hoping some pros in this can help me! This is what I'm thinking so far- am I correct? What would you add or subtract? Language Arts Writing-Writing With Skill 1 Has anyone done the Creative Writer series offered on WTM website? If so, did you do this at the same time as Writing with Skill or another writing program? Grammar ????? I was looking at AG, but it doesn't suggest to start it until 6th grade. I prefer to stay secular in our learning, so Rod and Staff are out, I guess. Any thoughts on Well Ordered Language or Voyages? We will have finished 1st Language Lessons Level 4 by the end of this year, so I'm at a bit of a loss for what my 10yr old daughter should do in 5th grade. Spelling Spelling Workout F/G Keyboard Keyboarding Without Tears History Am I correct that we are going back to reading SOTW1, but this time at a deeper level by including a resource like Kingfisher, timelines, outlines, and narrations? Math Math-U-See Life of Fred Maybe supplement with a little Singapore for additional word problems Science Please share with me your recommendations for a biology program for the logic stage. It should be stated I'm not a science minded gal, so I need all the help I can get- whatever you find to be the most complete. Languages My kids will continue with French which they speak fluently, but maybe we'll add Latin. What's your favorite Latin program? I know everyone has strong opinions, so let me hear them!! I'm feeling a little overwhelmed entering the logic stage. Oh, and I should mention that I'll be also teaching her little brother in 3rd grade next year, so he'll be doing some of the history and science with her. Thanks!

Hi, In the past, I have posted my email exchange with Saxon Author Stephen Hake regarding his Saxon math series. I wanted to share with you his views on incremental learning and his Hake Grammar series of books. We use this series of books with our children and they are great in my opinion. My children love them, and are they are really retaining the concepts while applying them to their writing. I wish I learned from books like this. http://homeschoolingodyssey.wordpress.com I hope you find some value in this interview. - Scott

I'd love some grammar suggestions for 6th grade. We have been using Christian Light for many years but I am overwhelmed right now and need something that is less intense. I still want solid grammar & diagramming but just LESS. I have been crossing out some and having them do partial lessons, but even that is just to much management for me right now. I'd prefer something that keeps daily lessons to 1-2 pages max. Any suggestions?

Deleted bc it was an accidental double post!

We are using Aesop A (3rd gr), and so far I have felt like the grammar portion hasn't been rigorous enough (we used FLL1 and 2 in first and second grade), so I was going to supplement with R &S but then looked at Aesop B and realize the grammar gets more rigorous, which is good. But for the rest of this year I was wondering if I should do 1 week (grammar and writing in the same week vs one week) for each passage, then move into Aesop B whenever we finish during this school year OR continue at same pace and supplement with some R&S to beef up the grammar in Aesop A? I feel like the current 2wk per passage pace drags a little and I feel like I want a more rigorous grammar (Like what I see in Aesop B). I do have R&S English 3, so I can supplement as needed. What are your thoughts? So far my DS has done very well with the outline, first draft, final draft retelling process. I'm still doing a lot of directing during the outlining, but there has been some obvious gains in independence. I'd like to iron out my plan before break is over so I can start fresh after break with no lag time. Thank you in advance for your insights. :)

Good morning! Has anyone used Voyages in English for 5th grade? We are currently using it and it takes foooooorrrrreeeever to complete each day to stay on track with the lesson plans provided! Any insight/advice would be so appreciated. I am not sure if we are going to stay with it or perhaps find something else. What do you all enjoy using for 5th grade language arts? Thanks!

My son is 9 and a bit behind in grammar. We used a bit of FLL2 last year but it became tedious and we set it aside. This year my son is going in to 4th grade and I've decided to use Easy Grammar to go along with Here to Help Learning Paragraph Writing. I own EG3, but according to the EG website I should place him in EG4 if he is to be in 4th grade. Since he hasn't had much direct grammar instruction would it be fine to just use the EG3 that I own or purchase the next grade level?

I have several questions that I am hoping to get some help/clarification with.I apologize in advance if this post becomes too long. This is our first year using ELTL. I am using Level 1 with my 7 year old son who is still learning to read and Level 4 with my 9 year old daughter who is a fluent reader, but terrible speller. I am also using RLTL Level 1 with both...for my son to learn to read and my daughter to help with her spelling. We are only on our second week using it and I'm just wondering if I am using the program correctly. With my so, I sit with him and read the assigned literature (for ELTL) reading, then talk him through each example. We then read the poem and fable, if there is one, and then he does the copywork. My question is, he does not enjoy most of the fables and always asks me why we are reading a poem everyday. Am I supposed to have him doing something with the poems and fables? Or just reading them to him daily, then having him narrate on the lessons that it says to do so? Does anyone skip reading the fables/poems, and if so, what do you do instead? Now, for my daughter, she does most of her ELTL lesson herself. She reads her literature assignment, does the exercises and writes in her commonplace book. My question for her is, when it comes to dictation and the condensed narrative, since she is a pretty poor speller, how would you go about doing both? So far, I've just been skipping the dictation and today, for the condensed narrative lesson, I had her just narrate to me instead of writing it all down. Is this ok to do until her spelling becomes stronger, or should I be doing something else? With RLTL, we are still just learning the phonograms. I've been going over 4 new ones a day with them both, having them review the ones we'e already learned each day, and writing them in their notebooks. And that's been it so far. It just feels like I'm missing something. Has anyone used RLTL with a struggling speller successfully, or should I supplement with a spelling program? If so, which program would you suggest? Again, I apologize for the length of the post, but appreciate any help you can offer.

Which is better FLL or CAP's new Well Ordered Language for grammar? I did FLL with one and about to go onto FLL 3 with my second and FLL1 with my third child. I've made the switch from WWE to CAP R&R already and wondering if I might like their grammar program better. Although, very repetitive, FLL, seems to have done a really good job on grammar with my first child. Thoughts?

My oldest daughter is 9 years old. We will be using ELTL for the first time this year. This past school year, we were using R&S for Grammar and Spelling. She loves to write stories and does pretty good forming sentences and paragraphs. However, her spelling needs a lot of work. So, my questions are, should I be using a writing program as well, or will ELTL be sufficient? And, should I give ELTL a chance before supplementing with a spelling program, or should I do a little extra in this area since I know it's already a problem that needs addressed? Thanks in advance!