Catwoman Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I was wondering when you'd get here, Bill -- that was FAST!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Not an afterschooler and I personally think essentially all bike racers used, if not still use, performance enhancing drugs. My classmate was a sponsored rider in the late 1990s, he had to quit because he would not be competitive without using drugs. All of the top racers were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Not an afterschooler and I personally think essentially all bike racers used, if not still use, performance enhancing drugs. My classmate was a sponsored rider in the late 1990s, he had to quit because he would not be competitive without using drugs. All of the top racers were. You can be an honorary afterschooler :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I was wondering when you'd get here, Bill -- that was FAST!!! :D Well, not as fast as you :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think they all doped, they were all on an equal plain. And for goodness sake, they ride bikes, they don't perform brain surgery or wield weapons of mass destruction. Why is this such a big deal??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I wish we could "say it ain't so Joe," but the man doped. The whole sport was deeply corrupted during those years and Lance Armstrong did the same think a lot of other riders of that era did. He doped. He got caught. Bill :iagree::iagree::iagree: It appears there are few sports one can enjoy without the stain of doping. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) I think they all doped, they were all on an equal plain. And for goodness sake, they ride bikes, they don't perform brain surgery or wield weapons of mass destruction. Why is this such a big deal??? While I actually tend to at least sorta agree with the above I think the reasons most often stated are: -following the rules and the law. Some substances are controlled and not legal to be sold. Others, while legal for use, were certainly against the rules. It is fair to say that riders should obey the law and the stated rules. -some of this is truly quite dangerous. People do hurt themselves and even die from performance enhancing drugs. -drug use creates tremendous pressure for more people to use them. Athletes who don't use can't succeed, when they are following the law and the rules. If no one doped, then no one would feel they had to. But if one person does, then others can't go without. -it's a bad example for children and young people. -damages the validity of results and record breaking. Damages the sport's reputation. I don't think any of these reasons is without merit. Edited October 12, 2012 by kijipt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I am not a Lance Armstrong fan. But I liked his cameo in Dodgeball. :lol: I admire his athletic skill, and I believe that his history shows he'd be a top performer regardless. Doping/juicing can't *create* an athlete of that caliber. I think the retroactive hunts for doping offenses are a waste of time and money and serve only to further entrench the rather warped emphasis of sports in our culture. I believe that this emphasis has many negative ramifications, starting as early as elementary school and building momentum through adulthood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 I was wondering when you'd get here, Bill -- that was FAST!!! :D :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Hmmmmmmm? Perhaps testing needs to be done for Board Performance Enhancing Substances????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 :lol::lol::lol: Hmmmmmmm? Perhaps testing needs to be done for Board Performance Enhancing Substances????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: I'm busted. :leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) The non-afterschoolers may eventually come around to facing the obvious truth of the situation. They are a little slow sometimes :tongue_smilie: I wish we could "say it ain't so Joe," but the man doped. The whole sport was deeply corrupted during those years and Lance Armstrong did the same think a lot of other riders of that era did. He doped. He got caught. Bill Bill, you need to go and reread the board rules. Hurling insults is not a good way to make and keep friends. I have never known if he was doping or not. I still don't know. I do know that what is being done to him at this point is wrong. The rules that are in place for doping prosecution are being ignored. Is that really any different that doping itself? Both are ignoring the rules. Edited October 12, 2012 by Lolly edited to stay within board rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill, you need to go and reread the board rules. You might be banned again. Please realize this is essentially a homeschooling board. You afterschoolers are not what this forum was intended to serve. Wow! This is really rude to lots of board members. You might want to read the top of the board!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Wow! This is really rude to lots of board members. You might want to read the top of the board!!! :iagree: And I took Bill's comment as a joke. :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill, you need to go and reread the board rules. You might be banned again. Please realize this is essentially a homeschooling board. You afterschoolers are not what this forum was intended to serve. Hurling insults is not a good way to make and keep friends. It was a joke. Look at the posts above. I was told I was the only one who believed the report by the USADA (which is now massively validated) but I was dismissed because I'm an "afterschooler." Good grief. This forum does serve afterschoolers, we even have our own sub forum in case you had not noticed. Perhaps you should read the board rules. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 :iagree: And I took Bill's comment as a joke. :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::D :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Are you serious? I think you need to re-read the rules. As for Lance, I'm glad he's been exposed for the doper he is. it doesn't matter if everyone else did it, he CHOSE to not follow the rules. That makes him a first class loser. Oops. I did break one. Guess I needed to reread the rules. I had forgotten that one. I should have just reported him. Bill, no, it did not come across as a joke, and I found myself being quite offended by the remark (Which actually surprised me, I tend to have a very thick skin.) I did not go back and reread this whole old thread. Not sure a sub forum makes a group the main focus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Oops. I did break one. Guess I needed to reread the rules. I had forgotten that one. I should have just reported him. Bill, no, it did not come across as a joke, and I found myself being quite offended by the remark (Which actually surprised me, I tend to have a very thick skin.) I did not go back and reread this whole old thread. Not sure a sub forum makes a group the main focus... It was a joke in response to post 99. You don't need thick skin, but developing a sense of humor might help. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill, you need to go and reread the board rules. You might be banned again. Please realize this is essentially a homeschooling board. You afterschoolers are not what this forum was intended to serve. Hurling insults is not a good way to make and keep friends. I have never known if he was doping or not. I still don't know. I do know that what is being done to him at this point is wrong. The rules that are in place for doping prosecution are being ignored. Is that really any different that doping itself? Both are ignoring the rules. I thought this was a "fans of the Well-Trained Mind" board? I would think afterschoolers, public schoolers, private schoolers, and even NON-schoolers would be welcome, as long as they have an interest in education. The "You Afterschoolers" even have their own forum, for Charlotte Mason's sake! I don't know if Lance doped either. But it sure seems he paid that drug doctor a LOT of money. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill, you need to go and reread the board rules. You might be banned again. Please realize this is essentially a homeschooling board. You afterschoolers are not what this forum was intended to serve. Hurling insults is not a good way to make and keep friends. I have never known if he was doping or not. I still don't know. I do know that what is being done to him at this point is wrong. The rules that are in place for doping prosecution are being ignored. Is that really any different that doping itself? Both are ignoring the rules. We homeshoolers do not have an exclusive or special claim to this forum. Bill was quite obviously making a tongue-cheek-comment, teasing the homescoolers a bit, NOT "hurling insults". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It was a joke. Look at the posts above. I was told I was the only one who believed the report by the USADA (which is now massively validated) but I was dismissed because I'm an "afterschooler." Good grief. This forum does serve afterschoolers, we even have our own sub forum in case you had not noticed. Perhaps you should read the board rules. Bill I thought the cheeky smiley was a pretty obvious clue that you were joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 We homeshoolers do not have an exclusive or special claim to this forum. Bill was quite obviously making a tongue-cheek-comment, teasing the homescoolers a bit, NOT "hurling insults". :tongue_smilie:<—is usually a good clue :lol: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I thought the cheeky smiley was a pretty obvious clue that you were joking. Oops, I cross posted (late). Must increase EPO :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyydae Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Most people do whatever they have to, to WIN. Wining is the name of the game. With that being said, I do not think Lance is above pumping his body full of steroids, to slaughter the competition, year after year. We would have never remembered Lance (cancer survivor or not) if he was not a WINNER!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill, no, it did not come across as a joke, and I found myself being quite offended by the remark (Which actually surprised me, I tend to have a very thick skin.) I did not go back and reread this whole old thread. Not sure a sub forum makes a group the main focus... Yeah, it did read as a joke. And apparently I am not alone in this opinion. You need to read the posts before and after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Oops, I cross posted (late). Must increase EPO :D Bill It's okay, I understand. You afterschoolers have trouble with these complicated tasks.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Most people do whatever they have to, to WIN. Wining is the name of the game. With that being said, I do not think Lance is above pumping his body full of steroids, to slaughter the competition, year after year. We would have never remembered Lance (cancer survivor or not) if he was not a WINNER!!! To some extent this is true. Which is why it is important for anti-doping agencies to act, even retrospectively. Because participation in sport is an important part of the classical ideal. And if the conditions of "everybody doped, so I need to dope to be competitive" remains then a great many athletes (which might include our own children) may be tempted to dope themselves. That is a bad condition and one than can not be allowed to prevail. I have no animus against Lance Armstrong. I understand why he did what he need to do to win when doping was the norm in his sport. Our job is to change that norm. Sweeping it all under the rug does nothing to reform the world of sport for the better. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's okay, I understand. You afterschoolers have trouble with these complicated tasks.:D I'm so insulted :lol: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pageatatime Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It matters because LA lied again and again. His unprecedented Tour wins (elevating him to mega-superstar & mega-superhuman) went hand in hand with the success of his Cancer Foundation, plus millions of dollars in sponsorships/endorsement money & equipment(customized bikes-some were auctioned off for his charity,which were worth a TON of money) not to mention his hugely popular website and products. Many, many people were cheated by him cheating. This isn't a witch-hunt, like his lawyers would like everyone to believe. Several of his former teammates-those known to be the closest to Lance, testified against him in a federal courtroom. The charges against him are w/i a several hundred-pg. outline, which was not constructed in a few months time. This is an investigation that has been in the development for years. This is HUGE. FWIW-the doping is still going on. You win a stage, you pee and get poked for possible doping. You get caught, you're fined or banned for a certain time,your doctor is fired, and you find another doc to keep it from happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It matters because LA lied again and again. His unprecedented Tour wins (elevating him to mega-superstar & mega-superhuman) went hand in hand with the success of his Cancer Foundation, plus millions of dollars in sponsorships/endorsement money & equipment(customized bikes-some were auctioned off for his charity,which were worth a TON of money) not to mention his hugely popular website and products. Many, many people were cheated by him cheating. This isn't a witch-hunt, like his lawyers would like everyone to believe. Several of his former teammates-those known to be the closest to Lance, testified against him in a federal courtroom. The charges against him are w/i a several hundred-pg. outline, which was not constructed in a few months time. This is an investigation that has been in the development for years. This is HUGE. FWIW-the doping is still going on. You win a stage, you pee and get poked for possible doping. You get caught, you're fined or banned for a certain time,your doctor is fired, and you find another doc to keep it from happening again. :iagree: Doping was the least of his crimes. He lied big time and not only that but put huge pressure on his team mates, his friends, to follow his path of doping and lying. When he was caught he choose to deny and follow a strategy that would villify those who caught him and his former friends and team mates who owned up to their own lies. Anyone who could be pushed into the flames in an attempt to save himself was. He's not a neutral character. He's not a nice man. And since the titles he won are being stripped from him and his reputation is now in ruins, he's certainly NOT a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltop Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 :iagree: Doping was the least of his crimes. He lied big time and not only that but put huge pressure on his team mates, his friends, to follow his path of doping and lying. When he was caught he choose to deny and follow a strategy that would villify those who caught him and his former friends and team mates who owned up to their own lies. Anyone who could be pushed into the flames in an attempt to save himself was. He's not a neutral character. He's not a nice man. And since the titles he won are being stripped from him and his reputation is now in ruins, he's certainly NOT a winner. :iagree: I agree with both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I used to think he was innocent and it was all a witch hunt. I was listening to a news story today about it. So much more detail about team members who witnessed it and participated with him. They said his ex-wife helped distribute pills. I think it is the details that are starting to change my opinion. One person said that LA was such a leader of the team, that he was the one to encourage others to participate. In fact they thought he was such a dominate force that if LA was clean, then the team members wouldn't have been doping. Lots of tests have become more sophisticated to detect doping haven't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyB Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 They can strip his titles, but they can't touch people's memories of him. Everyone will always equate Lance Armstrong with dominating the Tour de France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 :iagree: I read his statement and it sounded like he wasn't admitting to anything - he was just tired of banging his head against a brick wall - he'd given them everything they asked him and it wasn't enough and he was just tired of fighting it. Meanwhile football and baseball players test positive and no wins or awards are taken away from them. :001_huh: He has been hassled for years, rudely and obnoxiously. I don't blame him. Enough is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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