BSA Families in which Eagle Scout is required

[marbel]

Now and then on a thread about Boy Scouts I see that some parents require their boy(s) to attain Eagle Scout. I have a couple of questions about it, but first I guess a little background is in order.

 

Right now my son is getting ready to go to his Scout summer camp, during which he expects to earn his Life Scout rank. We've always encouraged him to plan for Eagle, and people around us (family, friends) are already asking him if he has his project figured out. It's almost a foregone conclusion the he will do it. I'm starting to wonder if that's becoming a burden to him.

 

My son enjoys Scouts but as he is preparing to leave for camp, I see a definite lack of enthusiasm. I've noticed it before some other activities, too. Yesterday, he had to leave a church youth group missions trip (his first) early in order to be home in time for Scout camp. He's expressed that he was sorry to leave that project to go to camp. I wonder if he is going to start moving in a different direction as he gets older.

 

So, I'm pondering a bit, and wondering about families who consider Eagle Scout a requirement for their boys. If you are one, what made you decide to require it? I'm not challenging your decision, just curious what it is about Eagle Scout that makes it that important to you.

 

Related to that - how much do you encourage [push, nag, cajole] your Scout to work on requirements?

 

I would imagine that some/most of prospective Eagle Scouts are self-motivated to do it, so require little parental involvement (other than necessary driving and such). But, maybe not. I know a former Scout volunteer (himself an Eagle) who grew disgusted with parents pushing their kids toward Eagle simply because it "looks good on a resume" as he put it.

 

ETA: After reading Erin's comment below, I thought I'd clarify: we would certainly give all emotional and material support needed for this endeavor, if he wants to pursue it. I was thinking more about needing to continually remind your Scout to work on things because he is not self-motivated to do it.

 

What say you Scout moms (or dads)?

Edited August 3, 2012 by marbel

[ErinE]

My son is younger, but dh and I feel strongly it is something ds should strive for. Dh is an Eagle Scout. He's been in interviews where it's the first thing people want to discuss, 20+ years after dh earned it and even in regions where the BSA isn't welcome. He's also part of an Eagle Scout network and many of the men are active in their communities and believe in giving back. Being an Eagle Scout has been very helpful.

 

As far as self-motivated, dh wanted to earn the award for university, but he still had many doubts. His father, though not requiring the award, strongly encouraged dh to finish it. Based on what I know, it would be hard to complete the requirements without emotional support from parents.

[Bonnie in VA]

Background: DS14.5 is a Life Scout, and has finished his Eagle project, but still has two merit badges to finish.

 

FYI, we've never said that we 'required' him to attain the rank of Eagle, and right now he is self-motivated to finish. But . . . if he started to say he did not want to finish, we'd probably make him. By the time a Scout gets to Life rank, he is SO CLOSE to finishing. I've heard a number of Scouts, at their Eagle ceremonies, thank their parents for pushing them. These were boys who nearly aged out, but whose parents pushed them to finish Eagle before they did. I don't think those boys will ever regret getting their Eagle rank, but I believe there are probably lots who regret not finishing when they had the chance to do so.

 

Bonnie

[justasque]

If he is 15, and almost Life, he's got some time. No rush. You might want to do a bit of Googling about projects and see if you can come up with one tailored to his current interests. They don't all need to involve clearing trails or building benches. I've known scouts who did projects involving music, or STEM activities for kids, or even building a web site (though I'm not sure how that one showed leadership), etc. Perhaps he could do something related to his missions trip group.

 

I'd also talk a bit about how Eagle can open doors.

 

However - it should be fun. And yet, as a scout gets older his role changes from the helpee to the helper, the student to the teacher. Some discussion of this change, and what he can do to remain interested and challenged, may be helpful. Venture Crew, Order of the Arrow, etc. are possibilities.

 

Together, take a look at what he's got left. Figure out if you can find ways to keep it fun.

[busymama7]

Background: DS14.5 is a Life Scout, and has finished his Eagle project, but still has two merit badges to finish.

 

FYI, we've never said that we 'required' him to attain the rank of Eagle, and right now he is self-motivated to finish. But . . . if he started to say he did not want to finish, we'd probably make him. By the time a Scout gets to Life rank, he is SO CLOSE to finishing. I've heard a number of Scouts, at their Eagle ceremonies, thank their parents for pushing them. These were boys who nearly aged out, but whose parents pushed them to finish Eagle before they did. I don't think those boys will ever regret getting their Eagle rank, but I believe there are probably lots who regret not finishing when they had the chance to do so.

 

Bonnie

 

:iagree: and teens are not notorious for seen the long term so pushing them is sometimes necessary. I also think its best if they are done by about 16. They do seems to lose the interest they had more at 11-13.

[justasque]

:iagree: and teens are not notorious for seen the long term so pushing them is sometimes necessary. I also think its best if they are done by about 16. They do seems to lose the interest they had more at 11-13.

 

I think it's useful to make a kind of tentative time line - if you finish this part by such and such time, then you can do the next bit by such and such. Leave a whole lot of time for project setbacks that are out of your control. (Expect and embrace these - it's part of the experience. It wouldn't mean anything if it was easy.) As an example, you probably don't want to be doing the project during senior year, but perhaps summer you're 16 would be a good time to focus on it, etc. The time segments can be things like "finish two more badges this summer", or "take that workshop they offer on the citizenship badges over the winter holidays", etc. That way, the goals are smaller than "make Eagle" but can still get him there, bit by bit. You can mix in a bit of "you may or may not end up with this, and that's OK, but might as well do step X at the moment, to protect your options down the line."

[higginszoo]

We've done the lay out a tentative timeline thing. We nudge, but ultimately, they have to do the work, and if they don't, they won't get Eagle and don't deserve it. Dh is an Eagle Scout, and because of that, we've been careful not to push TOO hard. My brothers were both Life Scouts who didn't make that last push and turned out fine.

 

Right now, our just-turned 14 year old has a timeline to finish by the end of 2013 ... so, 15 1/2. Dh has been talking him through making initial contacts to start getting his project plan together. He made Life last December.

 

We haven't set out a timeline for our little guy yet, but he's still in that super-motivated phase. It's 5 months since he bridged up and he's Second Class, with 2 requirements left for First Class and a plan to get them done, do he has a good pace set for the moment. He's also the one that we have to be careful about nudging too much, as he's our usually pliant child, but when he gets a mind to dig in his heels, there's no moving him.

[abacus2]

My son is younger, but dh and I feel strongly it is something ds should strive for. Dh is an Eagle Scout. He's been in interviews where it's the first thing people want to discuss, 20+ years after dh earned it and even in regions where the BSA isn't welcome. He's also part of an Eagle Scout network and many of the men are active in their communities and believe in giving back. Being an Eagle Scout has been very helpful.

 

As far as self-motivated, dh wanted to earn the award for university, but he still had many doubts. His father, though not requiring the award, strongly encouraged dh to finish it. Based on what I know, it would be hard to complete the requirements without emotional support from parents.

 

DH is an Eagle Scout, but I don't think it had ever occurred to either of us to put that on a resume. Something to think about.

[DawnM]

I am giving my aspie until almost 18 if he needs it. He is 14 and just about to finish star. It isn't as fast as some but it is fine. He actually has all the merit badges complete for life but will need to be star for 4 months anyway.

 

I cant tell you the number of grown men who say they regret not finishing.

 

Our rule is no drivers license until eagle. :D. Thankfully most of our troop families have the same rule.

[DianeW88]

I'm LDS. It's just what we do. My dh got his Eagle at 13...way back in the 70s when they allowed it that young. Oldest ds got his at 17. We have one more to go...he's 11.

 

Personally, it doesn't matter to me one way or another...I'm not really into the whole Scouting thing...but it is important to my dh.

[livetoread]

My just turned 14yo Life scout has completed his badges and has decided on his project though he hasn't gotten approval yet. He keeps asking me to push him and is worried that I won't! His goal is to finish before he is 15 and I think he will make that.

 

I've generally followed this pattern for helping. I'll make a suggestion. If he doesn't follow the suggestion and I think it would help a lot if he did, then I'll offer to help him with the suggestion. If it still isn't happening but needs to, finally I'll tell him, "Ok, let's do X now." He is still free to push back and/or come up with another idea, but so far it's been working pretty well.

 

For example, he was getting anxious about choosing a project and didn't have a sense of what to do around that. I suggested that he write a plan, breaking it into steps. He shrugged and continued to fret. I offered to help him do it at some unspecified time and he nodded but never asked for help. I finally said, "Ok let's take a minute right now and write up the steps you need to do to decide on a project." We did, he felt much better, and he started accomplishing them.

 

He's motivated but just isn't organized enough to pull it off without a lot of help. So far it's been a great experience for him to go through the process of tackling a big project step by step, but I've had to model that for him.

[jen3kids]

I don't think attaining the rank of Eagle is super important in ones' life. There are a lot more successful people who never did Scouts than who did. With my son, I figure, 'You've gotten this far, finish it!' And, I agree 100% with the PP that pretty much all boys who quit at Star or Life do regret not finishing.

 

My older just turned 15, earned Star at 13, Life at 14, has 5 required merit badges and his Eagle project to do. He's not interested, at all. He was super gung-ho between 11-13 and I wish I had encouraged him to get more of his Eagle required done in that time period, instead of a bunch of 'fun' ones!

 

After seeing the last 4-5 boys in his Troop be 'Midnight Eagles', I don't want to deal with that stress. He has a good amount of time to get it finished, but he's not a planner.

 

I tried laying out a plan with him. I suggested he do Communications over the summer, Physical Fitness in the fall/winter as he gets ready wrestling season, and one a merit badge madness event in Nov. Then he'd have only have 2 more to do. I got the booklets from the library and he wouldn't even look at them.

 

Do I tie it to getting his license, which he can't wait to get? I don't think so. He's the kind of kid who pushes back really hard when he's pushed. So, right now we're just letting him figure it out. A couple of the Midnight Eagles have talked to him. Some of the leaders who didn't get theirs, some who did have also talked to him. He listens politely, says all the right things, but he's not budging.

 

He's at Philmont right now and I'm hoping he'll have a change of heart while he's there, but I don't expect him to. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't finish and I'm pretty sure he'll be disappointed in himself too, but I don't feel it's something that can be forced, at least with my kid.

 

 

Sure, people see that and think, "Wow, an Eagle Scout!", but if that kid only gets his Eagle because his parent's harassed him or wouldn't let him get his driver's license, how meaningful is it? How much did the boy get out of it? Is he self-motivated? Not at that time, he wasn't. I've got a friend who has forced her son through every step of his Scouting career. Right now, they are working on their Eagle Scout project. It drives me nuts to hear her talk about it.

 

 

Anyway, I guess how much you push depends on your kid. If he asks for help, then help, but make sure he's the one wanting it, not you.

[marbel]

Thanks for all the replies. Good things to think about.

 

My boy left for Scout camp this morning. He went from being unenthusiastic to downright not wanting to go at all. It was a very emotional morning and I'm not sure what was just emotion and what was real. His comments escalated from "some of it is so boring" to "I get hassled for my faith." (We are Christian, but I doubt my kid is demonstrative to the point I'd be surprised if anyone even knew.) He said once in a while he gets some teasing about being homeschooled. Hard to tell what is good-natured teasing and what is not.

 

Right before he left he got a text from one of the boys in his patrol. It was one word: the f-bomb. That set off another round of tears about the bad language he hears.

 

Ai yi yi. I guess I'm hijacking my own thread! Maybe I should start a spinoff about parents who let their kids quit Scouts and end up not regretting it. He said he does want to make Eagle but isn't sure he wants to go back to camp, and if he never goes back to camp he may as well quit Scouts... oh my.

 

We do expect to be moving this year, as soon as my husband finds a job, so this may all be a moot point. Some of you same gals were helpful to me a little while back when I posted about transferring troops. I expect I'll be asking for your help again at some point!

[SailorMom]

IMHO,

an Eagle is not an Eagle unless the award was earned by his initiative and desire alone. Obviously parent's should support this desire and initiative, but the whole point is lost with required attainment and any sort of bribery (i.e. - can't get your license until you have Eagle, etc.).

My DH is an Eagle, and is basically really alarmed and discouraged by families that take this route.

I'm sure boys can learn a lot from being made to go through the process - but again - kinda loses the point of the REAL learning that is behind the whole thing. The project and the badges are just the outward signs. The real learning comes from the boy choosing to become a leader, choosing to make scouts his priority when he may be getting a job, a girlfriend, or a car.

If it is not his choice, or if there are bribes in play, well - I think it's pretty pointless.

[DawnM]

I couldn't disagree wit you more. Not a bribe, an incentive. Obviously I have a very different view on this. And wow, calling our method pointless is very harsh. I am very thankful for the troop we are in and that they don't get discouraged and alarmed by strongly encouraging the boys to succeed.

 

IMHO,

an Eagle is not an Eagle unless the award was earned by his initiative and desire alone. Obviously parent's should support this desire and initiative, but the whole point is lost with required attainment and any sort of bribery (i.e. - can't get your license until you have Eagle, etc.).

My DH is an Eagle, and is basically really alarmed and discouraged by families that take this route.

I'm sure boys can learn a lot from being made to go through the process - but again - kinda loses the point of the REAL learning that is behind the whole thing. The project and the badges are just the outward signs. The real learning comes from the boy choosing to become a leader, choosing to make scouts his priority when he may be getting a job, a girlfriend, or a car.

If it is not his choice, or if there are bribes in play, well - I think it's pretty pointless.

Edited August 4, 2012 by DawnM

[DawnM]

Our boys come back from camp telling us about other troops and their language.

 

Our troop is homeschool only. We are also a Christian troop. We don't have the issues that many troops do in that regard.

 

Our troop makes a big impact on our boys and that is why we value it so much. I might not feel this way if we were in a bad troop. It is where my boys have made most of their friends. I imaging my boys may even join the Venturing Crew after they finish Eagle because they like it so much.

 

Dawn

 

Thanks for all the replies. Good things to think about.

 

My boy left for Scout camp this morning. He went from being unenthusiastic to downright not wanting to go at all. It was a very emotional morning and I'm not sure what was just emotion and what was real. His comments escalated from "some of it is so boring" to "I get hassled for my faith." (We are Christian, but I doubt my kid is demonstrative to the point I'd be surprised if anyone even knew.) He said once in a while he gets some teasing about being homeschooled. Hard to tell what is good-natured teasing and what is not.

 

Right before he left he got a text from one of the boys in his patrol. It was one word: the f-bomb. That set off another round of tears about the bad language he hears.

 

Ai yi yi. I guess I'm hijacking my own thread! Maybe I should start a spinoff about parents who let their kids quit Scouts and end up not regretting it. He said he does want to make Eagle but isn't sure he wants to go back to camp, and if he never goes back to camp he may as well quit Scouts... oh my.

 

We do expect to be moving this year, as soon as my husband finds a job, so this may all be a moot point. Some of you same gals were helpful to me a little while back when I posted about transferring troops. I expect I'll be asking for your help again at some point!

[marbel]

Wow. This doesn't sound like a motivation problem. This sounds like a troop problem! There are GOOD troops out there, I promise.

 

This is what's so surprising - this is our 4th year with this troop and it has always been a great one. The leadership is great - they discourage the language, etc. They challenge the boys but don't push them. Most of the boys are great. When we go over each boy in the troop, more often than not he says the boy is good, not a problem. I think the problems are the exception, not the rule.

 

I think it's my boy that's changing, not the troop. I think things that used to not bother him, now do. He has always brushed off the language - he watches plenty of movies with it, understands that teen boys like to experiment with shocking language, etc.

 

We'll have to explore this further when he gets home. If history repeats, he will be full of stories of the great time he had at camp!

 

ETA: We have purposely not joined a Christian homeschool troop. We live in a Christian "bubble" anyway (I don't mean that in an insulting way, just descriptive) because of homeschooling and being highly involved in church (and my husband being a recent seminary grad). Almost all our social contacts are Christian. So, we wanted our son to be outside that "bubble" for at least part of his life.

Edited August 4, 2012 by marbel

[justasque]

Wow. This doesn't sound like a motivation problem. This sounds like a troop problem!

 

Agreed. I don't think the problem is faith, per se, so much as it is culture. If he's used to being in a "clean" homeschool/Christian environment, and the kids at camp are typical teenaged guys, he's going to hear and see a lot that he's not used to. A lot. A LOT. And if he is reacting with tears when someone swears, then it's going to be *really* hard on him. Because that is going to attract bullying. Take his concerns seriously.

 

It's time for a heart-to-heart about all this. NOW. He needs to be able to get along with others, even if their culture is vastly different than his own. He doesn't have to participate in things he doesn't agree with, but he needs to be able to sort out what he will overlook and what's worth speaking up about.

 

Changing troops, where he can start over, may help. Talking to leadership may help, but don't expect the culture to change - it won't. Perhaps, though, leadership can help him to learn to function within the culture as needed, if that's what he wants, and perhaps they can keep a sharp eye out for those who are bullying him and help keep it to a minimum as he learns how to deal with it all. It's a tough call - there's a balance here between getting along in the dominant culture and giving up on your personal standards. It's a fine line, but many men walk it every day with honor. Talking to such men in his life may help.

[marbel]

Oh dear. I didn't mean to imply he is being bullied.

 

I shouldn't try to be concise and leave things incomplete. When he said "hassled for his faith" we boiled it down to one boy who said something to him once, maybe. This is a boy who has some behavioral problems and says inappropriate things when he forgets to take his medication.

 

I don't want to overstate problems in the troop. We've observed the troop for a long time. My husband goes on at least 2 camping trips a year with them. We get happy reports after almost every activity. My son confides his homesickness to his Scoutmaster who is a fine man. Last year he called us from camp at our son's request to report that he was managing his homesickness OK, was mostly having fun and did not want to come home early.

Edited August 4, 2012 by marbel

[marbel]

Sure, people see that and think, "Wow, an Eagle Scout!", but if that kid only gets his Eagle because his parent's harassed him or wouldn't let him get his driver's license, how meaningful is it? How much did the boy get out of it? Is he self-motivated? Not at that time, he wasn't. I've got a friend who has forced her son through every step of his Scouting career. Right now, they are working on their Eagle Scout project. It drives me nuts to hear her talk about it.

 

Aside from my current issue with camp, this is what I am concerned with. We would support and help our son but I don't want it to be my project too. There are lines between helping just enough and helping too much (and too little). I want to be very cautious about crossing those lines.

[marbel]

Sounds like he's growing up.

Does he have a friend he pals with in the troop?

 

Yes, he does. He has several friends but one in particular he is looking forward to hanging out with. We told him to focus his attention on the boys he is compatible with, and not worry about the others. When he gets home from camp, we'll sort it all out, when it will be less emotional.

[Miss Marple]

My 17 yo is just waiting to have his Eagle board of review. 16 yo needs to start his project (as in picking a project and getting the paperwork started - he has an idea for one, but not sure it is feasible).

 

After going through this with them, I would suggest getting the Eagle as early as possible. Once they start driving (and we don't attach driving privileges with anything else) and getting involved in other outside activities (church, work, concurrent college classes) it is much harder to motivate them.

 

Starting the project is the hardest part. Once my son finished the write-up and got committee and district approval, it was a piece of cake. He commented that he was much more worried than he needed to be. And worrying about it led to procrastination.

 

Both boys have all badges done and all positions of responsibility completed. At one point I told my son that I was handing it all over to him. If he wanted Eagle, he was going to have to take the ball and make it happen because I was not going to be nagging him - I have plenty of other nagging to do :) Shortly after that he began the process. He still needed help with ideas and details which I was happy to give.

 

For us, Eagle is something nice to have...it isn't the pinnacle of my sons' success. It does look nice on transcripts/applications and I look forward to seeing if it opens doors - my oldest never participated in scouts and ds2 started at age 15 (with his younger brothers) and made it to Star. DS4 needs to be prodded, but if he won't take charge of it, I'm good if he just times out at Life. We started scouts mostly for ds3, but ds4 has done very well. He just doesn't need the success of Eagle as much as his brother.

[Terabith]

You know, I wonder if he's really upset about camp/ Scouting or if he is really upset about having to leave the mission trip early, especially if it was a powerful experience?

[marbel]

You know, I wonder if he's really upset about camp/ Scouting or if he is really upset about having to leave the mission trip early, especially if it was a powerful experience?

 

Now that he's been gone for a few hours and my husband and I have had time to think about it more, I think that is probably part of the problem.

 

This kid is easily overwhelmed - he is not a high-intensity performer. He has ADD and a few other problems that give him trouble learning and also interacting sometimes.

 

So, I think he was having a great time on the mission trip, and was around some exceptional young men. Then, he had a 12-hour drive home (spread over 2 days), and 2 days after that was off to camp. He may have been overwhelmed, overtired, and everything was blown out of proportion. (For example, saying he's been mocked for his faith, but upon inquiry not being able to remember specifics other than it was one boy who is generally somewhat troublesome.) The reaction to the f-bomb text, too - way out of proportion based on his experience with other peoples' language.

 

But my original question about motivation has been brewing in my mind for a while, before this pre-camp drama. I see my boy needing a lot of hand-holding to get to Eagle at this point. I've had to push him a lot to the point he's reached. We've done a lot of work on project planning, breaking down tasks, using timelines, etc. I feel as though I've made my contribution to his Scout career, you might say. Of course if he goes on to Eagle (as he says he wants to do, even amidst the drama) his Dad and I will support him but we do want him to be motivated to do the work. I don't want to be asking him every couple of days if he's been working on badges or whatever, kwim? I can't help but feel that if he still needs that much hand-holding, maybe he simply isn't an Eagle Scout.

 

Lots of pondering to do. Lots of talking when he gets back from camp! I appreciate all the comments. It would have been a simpler thread if not for today's drama. Hard to keep it out of conversation, though!

Edited August 4, 2012 by marbel

[jen3kids]

 

But my original question about motivation has been brewing in my mind for a while, before this pre-camp drama. I see my boy needing a lot of hand-holding to get to Eagle at this point. I've had to push him a lot to the point he's reached. We've done a lot of work on project planning, breaking down tasks, using timelines, etc. I feel as though I've made my contribution to his Scout career, you might say. Of course if he goes on to Eagle (as he says he wants to do, even amidst the drama) his Dad and I will support him but we do want him to be motivated to do the work. I don't want to be asking him every couple of days if he's been working on badges or whatever, kwim? I can't help but feel that if he still needs that much hand-holding, maybe he simply isn't an Eagle Scout.

 

Lots of pondering to do. Lots of talking when he gets back from camp! I appreciate all the comments. It would have been a simpler thread if not for today's drama. Hard to keep it out of conversation, though!

 

I think your situation is different from mine. I think that a boy with ADD may need the extra help to stay on task, and it sounds like your ds wants to do it. My son has told me he doesn't want to finish. It isn't a, "Yes, I want it. Please give me a push and help me outline how to get there." I've got a "Back off. I'm don't want to do and I am not going to. Leave it alone."

 

The question for me is to figure out if I should try to change his mind or force him to do it by not allowing him to get his driver's license. The forcing won't happen, but I can't guarantee I won't try to convince him to finish :tongue_smilie:

[DawnM]

I GET it, you think our idea is ridiculous. You have let me know that at least twice in this thread.

 

There are MANY ways to motivate a child. You don't want to do it the way I do it, find a way if it is important to you.

 

I don't look at my kids' future accomplishments, like a high school diploma, and say, "Well, if you don't figure out all the classes on your own it isn't really YOURS." They are still kids who need some guidance and prompting.

 

This is the way WE do it and I make no apologies for it.

 

I think your situation is different from mine. I think that a boy with ADD may need the extra help to stay on task, and it sounds like your ds wants to do it. My son has told me he doesn't want to finish. It isn't a, "Yes, I want it. Please give me a push and help me outline how to get there." I've got a "Back off. I'm don't want to do and I am not going to. Leave it alone."

 

The question for me is to figure out if I should try to change his mind or force him to do it by not allowing him to get his driver's license. The forcing won't happen, but I can't guarantee I won't try to convince him to finish :tongue_smilie:

[cougarmom4]

Dawn, we also tie completion of the Eagle to driving privileges...it's kind of a rite of passage in our family! We are scouters...partly because our church encourages it, partly because dh recognizes all that he gained on his journey to Eagle and because we want to provide that type of leadership education to our boys.

 

Ds15 is a typical teenager and would love to not have to work hard at anything that isn't fun. :D. That doesn't mean we are going to DO his project for him though. Just because we tie an incentive to it doesn't mean it negates all of the worthy skills and experiences he will gain during the process. It's the process that is the most important to us...with guidance by capable leaders and step-by-step.

[DawnM]

:iagree: this is us too. I encourage and even build it into the daily schedule but I dont do the work for him. I do answer questions, ect....

 

I hear too many stories of the "fumes" being too strong a distraction (gas fumes and perfumes) ;)

 

The difference is that you can finish high school late or go to college at 49, but you only have until your 18th birthday to finish Eagle.

 

Dawn

 

Dawn, we also tie completion of the Eagle to driving privileges...it's kind of a rite of passage in our family! We are scouters...partly because our church encourages it, partly because dh recognizes all that he gained on his journey to Eagle and because we want to provide that type of leadership education to our boys.

 

Ds15 is a typical teenager and would love to not have to work hard at anything that isn't fun. :D. That doesn't mean we are going to DO his project for him though. Just because we tie an incentive to it doesn't mean it negates all of the worthy skills and experiences he will gain during the process. It's the process that is the most important to us...with guidance by capable leaders and step-by-step.

[jen3kids]

I GET it, you think our idea is ridiculous. You have let me know that at least twice in this thread.

 

There are MANY ways to motivate a child. You don't want to do it the way I do it, find a way if it is important to you.

 

I don't look at my kids' future accomplishments, like a high school diploma, and say, "Well, if you don't figure out all the classes on your own it isn't really YOURS." They are still kids who need some guidance and prompting.

 

This is the way WE do it and I make no apologies for it.

 

Actually, I have never said your idea was ridiculous. I'm sorry if you get that impression from my posts.

 

I know it won't work for my son. If it works for you and your ds and your Troop, then that's fine. I'm not judging you, just expressing my opinion and saying what we're doing in our family.

 

 

Dawn, we also tie completion of the Eagle to driving privileges...it's kind of a rite of passage in our family! We are scouters...partly because our church encourages it, partly because dh recognizes all that he gained on his journey to Eagle and because we want to provide that type of leadership education to our boys.

 

Ds15 is a typical teenager and would love to not have to work hard at anything that isn't fun. :D. That doesn't mean we are going to DO his project for him though. Just because we tie an incentive to it doesn't mean it negates all of the worthy skills and experiences he will gain during the process. It's the process that is the most important to us...with guidance by capable leaders and step-by-step.

 

 

My ds says that one of the reasons he doesn't want to continue is that it isn't fun anymore (which is why I wish he'd done more Eagle required merit badges when he was younger and why I'm encouraging younger ds to do them now). Older ds' last 5 merit badges are longer, more difficult ones; ones he is fully capable of doing if he puts his mind to it.

 

I don't think encouraging him will negate anything. It actually shows him that with perseverance he can get through the nitty-gritty to get what he really wants. But how do you encourage, rather than force, a kid to do something they don't want to do? A kid who totally digs his heels in? What would you do if he said, "Fine. I'm not doing my Eagle and I don't care if I don't get my driver's license." (or whatever else you use to motivate him)?

 

 

 

:iagree: this is us too. I encourage and even build it into the daily schedule but I dont do the work for him. I do answer questions, ect....

 

I hear too many stories of the "fumes" being too strong a distraction (gas fumes and perfumes) ;)

 

The difference is that you can finish high school late or go to college at 49, but you only have until your 18th birthday to finish Eagle.

 

Dawn

 

The 'fumes' have definitely got to my boy. And, yes, we've told him the same thing. You only have until you're 18 and then it's gone. There's no going back. I've explained that you don't want to close the door so early. Keep working on the merit badges over the next couple of years.

 

 

 

As for the OP, I think her ds has the desire and the drive, but I think he (like many boys) needs the encouragement and help with the planning. I think it's 100% fine and it's what I want to do/had planned to do with my ds. But he has other plans. Only time will tell....

 

Again, I'm sorry that you got the impression I thought your methods were ridiculous... (I wish there was a 'peace' emoticon!)

[marbel]

As for the OP, I think her ds has the desire and the drive, but I think he (like many boys) needs the encouragement and help with the planning.

 

I see the desire, but not the drive, in my son. He says he wants it, and he'll do the work, but it's with me dragging him along, constantly nagging him to choose badges, call counselors, work on badges... he gets angry with me for pushing him, but later acknowledges that he needs the pushing.

 

It's exhausting! And I can't help but wonder if that is characteristic of an Eagle Scout. I get that a kid can need help but be self-motivated to seek it out. I seem to be missing the self-motivated part. I don't want it to be mommy-motivated, kwim?

[DawnM]

Can you make a sort of schedule? We have done this.....as a goal? How many more does he need to complete? Could you sit down with a calendar and say, "let's set some deadlines?"

 

I have been known (in other areas) to say, "If you aren't moving forward, it is time to end this activity. It is wasting my time and yours. Here is where I need you to be by Christmas and if you aren't there, it is time to move on."

 

My boys do love scouts and it is a part of who we are as a family. However, if they were hating it and begging to quit I would seriously reconsider. For us, it is something the ENTIRE family can do together. I have a lot of my homeschool mom friends there, and there is something for everyone. I don't have a girl but we have a girls group too. DH is a scoutmaster assistant and I am on the pack committee and have some jobs with the pack.

 

But if we weren't so invested, and if my son really wasn't showing interest, it might be an area I say, "You know, you aren't showing that you really care or want this, so maybe we need to make some ultimatums."

 

I don't really know what my point is, just rambling with ideas and thoughts. It is hard to have a teen. Mine isn't intrinsically motivated at all. Part is personality (Asperger's) and part is just teen.

 

I see the desire, but not the drive, in my son. He says he wants it, and he'll do the work, but it's with me dragging him along, constantly nagging him to choose badges, call counselors, work on badges... he gets angry with me for pushing him, but later acknowledges that he needs the pushing.

 

It's exhausting! And I can't help but wonder if that is characteristic of an Eagle Scout. I get that a kid can need help but be self-motivated to seek it out. I seem to be missing the self-motivated part. I don't want it to be mommy-motivated, kwim?

Edited August 5, 2012 by DawnM

[Miss Marple]

I see the desire, but not the drive, in my son. He says he wants it, and he'll do the work, but it's with me dragging him along, constantly nagging him to choose badges, call counselors, work on badges... he gets angry with me for pushing him, but later acknowledges that he needs the pushing.

 

It's exhausting! And I can't help but wonder if that is characteristic of an Eagle Scout. I get that a kid can need help but be self-motivated to seek it out. I seem to be missing the self-motivated part. I don't want it to be mommy-motivated, kwim?

 

The only self motivation in my 15 yobs has been in the areas of video/computer games, hanging out with friends, and just about anything that didn't require some sort of work or difficulty :glare:

 

I think getting them to Eagle is much like getting them to anything else that requires work. I'm sure there are some very self-motivated boys out there - they probably pick their own curriculum, get themselves out of bed and start on school without being asked, clean their room and do their laundry, etc., but I think they are few and far between :D And if you have one of those, consider yourself blessed :001_smile:

 

Depending on the ability and age, the amount of pushing and prodding can vary. With my 17 yo, it just required that I help him brainstorm some ideas, helped with how to write up the project proposal, moral support as he canvassed for donations, etc. I didn't do the work, but I did "help" in the same manner I would if teaching him how to do his laundry or anything else. They aren't fully mature yet, so to expect them to figure it all out on their own or even seek out help when they feel overwhelmed is, IMO, expecting too much of the average young man. And, yes, it is exhausting at times :D

[marbel]

They aren't fully mature yet, so to expect them to figure it all out on their own or even seek out help when they feel overwhelmed is, IMO, expecting too much of the average young man. And, yes, it is exhausting at times :D

 

Maybe my expectations are off! I would expect conversations to go like this:

 

Kid: "Mom/Dad, can you help me out with this Scout requirement? I'm not sure what to do next."

 

M/D: "Yes, of course we can help you..."

 

But my reality is this:

 

Kid: "Mom, can I play some x-box now?"

 

Mom: "How much merit badge work did you do today?"

 

K: "Ugh! Can't I do it later?"

 

M: "There isn't any time later, and your meeting with the counselor is day after tomorrow, isn't it? Don't you need <whatever> done by then?"

 

K: <scowls> "Yes. <angry voice> OK, I'll do it. <heavy sigh>"

 

Repeat, repeat, for every badge. Even with a plan, a schedule, written down, I have to nag him to do it.

 

Then, he gets the badge. He's happy! He's glad he did the work! He thanks me for helping him. I tell him I'm tired of having to fight with him over every badge and I wonder if he really wants to do this. He assures me that he really does want it, and promises it will be different with the next badge... but it really isn't.

 

Is this how it works for most kids? Really? :confused:;)

Edited August 5, 2012 by marbel

[katilac]

Maybe my expectations are off! I would expect conversations to go like this:

 

Kid: "Mom/Dad, can you help me out with this Scout requirement? I'm not sure what to do next."

 

M/D: "Yes, of course we can help you..."

 

But my reality is this:

 

Kid: "Mom, can I play some x-box now?"Mom: "How much merit badge work did you do today?"

 

K: "Ugh! Can't I do it later?"

 

M: "There isn't any time later, and your meeting with the counselor is day after tomorrow, isn't it? Don't you need <whatever> done by then?"

 

K: <scowls> "Yes. <angry voice> OK, I'll do it. <heavy sigh>"

 

Repeat, repeat, for every badge. Even with a plan, a schedule, written down, I have to nag him to do it.

 

Then, he gets the badge. He's happy! He's glad he did the work! He thanks me for helping him. I tell him I'm tired of having to fight with him over every badge and I wonder if he really wants to do this. He assures me that he really does want it, and promises it will be different with the next badge... but it really isn't.

 

Is this how it works for most kids? Really? :confused:;)

 

I'd say he needs a schedule of set times to work on scout stuff, or a set routine of working on it so much every day, just like schoolwork and chores. When you are mentally 'finished' with your day and moving on to games or social time, it IS hard to muster enthusiasm for work.

 

So, every Tuesday and Thursday from 6 to 7 pm is for scout stuff (or whatever works).

[TravelingChris]

We had one son and we didn't need to require it- he always thought it was mandatory for himas a road to become successful and anyway he loved Scouting.

[marbel]

Yes, I think this is pretty typical, especially for teen boys. They don't want to work. I have YET to meet a teen boy who is as gung-ho about it as you seem to think they ought to be. Those are mythical creatures. :lol:

 

LOVE this! Mythical creature indeed! Good food for thought; we'll be rethinking our expectations. And, :lol::lol::lol:

[m0mmaBuck]

We dragged DSS from Life to Eagle only because he was/is the type of kid who will do all of the work but never turn it in (be it for school, Scouts, or work) because he wants the experience but is petrified by the recognition. He had all of the badges, finished his service project, had all of the paperwork done.... but wasn't going to bother to file it. He never did have a court of honor (nor did he walk at high school graduation or have his beading ceremony for Wood Badge) but at least he earned it and it can put it on a resume.

[Miss Marple]

I'd say he needs a schedule of set times to work on scout stuff, or a set routine of working on it so much every day, just like schoolwork and chores. When you are mentally 'finished' with your day and moving on to games or social time, it IS hard to muster enthusiasm for work.

 

So, every Tuesday and Thursday from 6 to 7 pm is for scout stuff (or whatever works).

 

Yes, a schedule is wonderful for these fellas. My son and I got a large wall calendar and put a schedule on it. It incorporated his class schedule, his tests/homework, reading requirements, etc. We figured out the goal of when he should have his idea for the Eagle project and verbal approval from his scoutmaster, the next goal date set was when he would have his committee approval (that was easier because he had to present at a monthly meeting so we were limited to dates on that), then we found out when district met and made our next date goal, then we figured out how long it would take to complete the project and made that goal. We also incorporated time in our day in the earlier years to work on Scout stuff. I was Advancement Chair for years (until this last March) and I needed time to work on my paperwork, so this was just scheduled in as "Scout stuff" on the schedule.

 

The problem I'm having now is that all those goals were documented (finished over winter break) and met, but we had a wedding thrown in early this summer that took place at our home, he began concurrent college courses this spring, had 2 summer camps to attend, and took an online college class this summer. And guess what? We didn't have a projected date for the Eagle Board of Review and I regret that! If we had added that to the calendar, it would have been met. We're shooting for late August at this point.

 

Here's a typical conversation:

 

Boy: Hey, mom, can I have some friends over for a movie and to spend the night?

 

Me: How does the project look? Do you need to do anything this week?

 

Boy: Let me check the calendar.

 

Boy: OK, I'm just waiting for XYZ to come back so there really isn't anything I can do until then.

 

Me: OK, as long as you've got everything else done.

 

OR

 

Boy: (after checking calendar) - I have to finish getting quotes on the materials by Monday. Can I do that this afternoon?

 

Me: As long as you have all your school work finished. (For us, Scout stuff came after school stuff in most cases.)

 

Truly, I'm always amazed when people tell me their teen boys are self-motivated. It just has never been my reality. I'm envious of those with self-motivated/self-starters (for the activities other than FUN :D) I've always said that a teen boy is the best representation of the word LAZY :) but maybe that's just in my world ;)

[starwarsmomma]

I have not demanded boys get eagle, BUT have had discussions with all 3 boys about how great it would be if they were.

 

Hubby and I also made an offer that we would pay X money towards their first car OR a portion of their car insurance for a period of time IF they made eagle. (anytime before age 18)

 

Oldest son--12--is waiting for his BOR to become a life scout... already made arrangements for his leadership and community service for that rank, all his required mb's are already done. Just a matter of time for him.

**He's my SCOUT kid. Loves scouts, it's his "thing"... He wants to be done with Eagle in the next year and half.

 

Middle son --almost 11-- just joined 2 months ago and thanks to advice from his brother is almost done with tenderfoot and 2nd class, and finished 2 MB's. Just waiting on a campout late september for the last few requirements. (he missed summer camp, and no other campouts planned until then)

[starwarsmomma]

I agree Margaret--

Small bites is also what our scoutmaster says.

 

If you go to every meeting and try to get just 1 or 2 things signed off, you will get through rank and MB's amazingly fast.

 

It really does work!