LDS ladies, please comment - view of Adam and Eve

[jennsmile]

Thank you, I'll check it out!

 

 

 

Thank you. It seems that even children and teenagers of Mormons are better behaved, maybe you all know some secret of parenting that the rest of us don't? I could be wrong though, and maybe I have just encountered the extra devout Mormons?

 

 

 

Thanks, it is interesting what you're saying about shying away from bringing religion into discipline interactions. Just makes me more curious, though...

 

Thank you for the compliment. Our families are encouraged to read scriptures together, pray together, attend church together, play together, work together and hold family home evening (Monday night were do we things together as a family and have a short lesson and maybe sing some songs and have a snack). We spend time together and love one another.

I have met families of other faiths whose kids are well behaved too, but those would be the things Mormon families do to build relationships with children.

[I.Dup.]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

[TKDmom]

Here is an easy one (finally! :tongue_smilie:).

 

What is the difference between a ward and a stake?

 

Is the ward the individual neighborhood "church" and the stake a collection of local wards? Or something else?

 

Bill

 

I'm coming in late, but I've really enjoyed reading all your thoughtful questions! And finally here's one that I feel qualified to answer. ;)

 

Yes, you have it right. A ward is an individual congregation with somewhere around 200-500 members. Often, more than one ward will meet in the same church building, so we stagger meeting times throughout the day to accommodate multiple wards. A stake is a collection of wards (usually 6-12).

 

Stakes and wards are both based on geographical boundaries, and when membership increases to the point where there are too many people, new wards or stakes are created. Sometimes, if membership is decreasing in a particular area, wards might be combined.

[Spy Car]

Young men are encouraged to serve, but it is still a pretty high bar of standards of behavior before even leaving. Not all go, but they are still welcomed and still receive callings etc. It is also a measure of committment. Those who fully embrace the teachings will generally go because they want to. (some are excused/sent home due to medical concerns. I've a friend whose son was excused becasue of a medical problem. He has since married in the temple.). Young women are free to serve if they wish, but there is not the same expectation that they do so.

 

I guess I'm wondering (and doing it out loud) if LDS parents and children see some sort of conscious analogy between the training they give and receive before being sent out to be tested in the world, and the pre-mortal training spirits get before coming to earth?

 

I am seeing it from an "outsider perspective" but outsider perspectives can sometimes be way wrong. So I ask.

 

Bill

[TKDmom]

Geesh, it takes me forever to type out a post and then I have to go back and read the 50 new posts that showed up while I was typing. :tongue_smilie:

[Julie in Austin]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

 

Certainly not all are wealthy, but I think the church's emphasis on education contributes.

 

Perhaps the Church's funding of BYU (tuition is very low) helps members, but members also tithe 10%.

 

One thing I have noticed: it is encouraged for LDS to not wait until they finish college or grad school or are established in their careers to have families. (By contrast, I know in some evangelical circles, men are discouraged from marrying before they can support a family.) I suspect that this encourages LDS to stay in school longer (increasing future earning potential) and it is not at all unusual or looked down on to have 1, 2, 3, whatever # of kids, and still be in college or grad school. Perhaps this leads to higher life time earnings?

[HSmomNY]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

 

Thank you for this. :)

I have been working on the monthy bills while posting today. Balancing paycheck, making choices, the normal stuff. Your question made me smile.

We are a one income family and my husband works as the water-meter foreman for the city water department. A good blue-collar job, I am grateful he has but we are not wealthy. The Lord has greatly blessed us, we have two wonderful son, a solid home and a knowledge of the gospel. But the Lord has not given us the blessing of wealth.

[meggie]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

 

The Church does teach tithing and budgeting, thrift and economy, no debt for anything other than a house, education, or well thought business plan, but it's not any sort of organized way like Dave Ramsey is. That's just something speakers will sometimes say in General Conference (the world wide meeting where the leaders of the church speak). Like I remember President Hinckley (our former prophet) saying he recommended buying a modest home and paying it off as quickly as possible.

 

Growing up in Colorado, I lived in a wealthy area. But even in that area there were less well to do people. One of my friends in high school was on the schools free lunch program.

 

My husband and I are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, by most of the country's standards, we are quite poor. But we have two bedrooms, clean and running water, a car, washer and dryer, heat, and enough food to eat (even the occasional bacon I love so much!) so I consider us very blessed.

 

The church does have a welfare system where members who are struggling financially can get food, clothing, access to mental health services for free of charge. In some instances the Bishop of your ward will be able to help pay your mortgage or rent or even tuition. These are all things that have been used to bless people I know personally. This is done with the tithing money.

[TKDmom]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

 

I think that perception probably comes from the Church's emphasis on education, hard work, thriftiness, avoiding debt and saving for a rainy day--the kind of things that probably result in people becoming financially independent. But it does not have any sort of goal to help people achieve worldly wealth.

 

The Church does have welfare programs in place to help needy members (as well as humanitarian aid and such for those who are not members of our church). Personally, I live in a ward that has a lot of low income members. They struggle to make ends meet, and sometimes have to accept food assistance and/or help with paying rent or utility bills from the Church. I heard a clip recently where Bill Mahler (I think?) said something along the lines of, "tell me the name one poor Mormon" and everyone laughed. I could name a dozen off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more within my ward that I'm just not aware of...

[dangermom]

We are also not wealthy. :) In fact I know zillions of Mormons who struggle financially!

 

But LDS culture does encourage lots and lots of hard work, education, thrift, and avoiding debt. Many Mormons go into business, computer science, and (for some reason) dentistry. There are hard times, and we are encouraged to prepare by saving and storing food. A struggling family will get food assistance, financial counseling, and (more rarely) financial help; in addition families are encouraged to help out.

 

I should add that from a global perspective, many, many Mormons are quite poor. Again, the church teaches thrift, education, and so on, and in fact has an international scholarship program for vocational training or college. You would not believe the financial counseling they are willing to do, both internationally and in the US. I remember my mom once helped a woman go over her budget, and did things like pointing out that a rented storage unit full of stuff she couldn't use was not helping her.

Edited June 12, 2012 by dangermom

[blondeviolin]

I guess I'm wondering (and doing it out loud) if LDS parents and children see some sort of conscious analogy between the training they give and receive before being sent out to be tested in the world, and the pre-mortal training spirits get before coming to earth?

 

I am seeing it from an "outsider perspective" but outsider perspectives can sometimes be way wrong. So I ask.

 

Bill

 

I see much correlation between training my children before they are sent out into the world.

 

However, I'm not sure serving a mission would consider "being tested." I could be wrong as I never served a full-time mission (though my brothers and husband did), and my kids are still young. BUT, my understanding is that there are strict rules and guidelines to follow (down to certain appropriate dress standards). In my eyes, a mission would definitely be more training before sending your child out into the world.

[gardenmom5]

:lol::lol: Mormons appreciate a good sense of humor....and I may use that quote in a talk or lesson some day, it's a great one! I'll give you full credit. :D

God has a sense of humor. :) I think you have to have a good sense of humor to be truly happy.

 

All I can really say is that we tend to believe that Heavenly Father has a unique plan for each of us, we try to follow that plan through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit, we don't have to follow that plan, and we probably mess it up all the time but God is very good at turning all things to good if we let Him.

:iagree: I know as I've come to understand some parts of my "plan for me", I've wanted to kick myself at times (I agreed to THIS????) for being the fool who rushed in where angles feared to tread. :glare: But as I progressed through those things, and learned so much, I've reach the point where even knowing what I know now, I would do it again. :svengo:;) yeah. But, I think they've made me a better person. I would do it again, even knowing everything I know now.

 

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

The church has a strong emphasis on education. and to get as much as you are realistically able. after all, those with education be it a specific field or marketable job skills, make more money. A man with six children working 18 hour days in three part-time jobs wondering where the money for his heating bill will come from does not have time to give service to anyone else (let alone give his children the attention they need and deserve.) it's the principle of "teach a man to fish". not only does he feed his family, he can teach other's how to fish to feed their families. a nice upwards spiral.

 

The church currently has the Perpetual Education Fund. (It's opperating expenses are purely interest - no capital is used lest it shrink the fund. I think it's been opperating for 15 years? It was the '90's at any rate.) It is opperating outside the US, in predominantly second and third world countries where financial resources for educational opportunties are in short supply. There is a standard for those who receive the assistance. of course, They are expected to pay it back. Those who have gone through it have jobs where they can comfortably support their family according to the living standards in their coutnries, and have free time to give service. the "teach a man to fish" simile. He learns to fish, and feeds his family. Then he has time to help teach others to fish to feed their families. A nice upwards spiral.

 

I guess I'm wondering (and doing it out loud) if LDS parents and children see some sort of conscious analogy between the training they give and receive before being sent out to be tested in the world, and the pre-mortal training spirits get before coming to earth?

 

I am seeing it from an "outsider perspective" but outsider perspectives can sometimes be way wrong. So I ask.

 

Bill

I have one returned missionary, one currently out, and one getting close to submitting his papers to serve.

I have never thought of them as being the same thing, though I suppose there could be, some very vague similarities. The biggest is probably we believe that there is inspiration about where a missionary serves. But conscious? no. not really.

[stansclan89]

I see much correlation between training my children before they are sent out into the world.

 

However, I'm not sure serving a mission would consider "being tested." I could be wrong as I never served a full-time mission (though my brothers and husband did), and my kids are still young. BUT, my understanding is that there are strict rules and guidelines to follow (down to certain appropriate dress standards). In my eyes, a mission would definitely be more training before sending your child out into the world.

 

:iagree: And what time they get up, what time they go to bed, how much time must be in scripture study, minimum amounts of prayer,...it goes on and on.

 

My oldest ds comes home in September--he has way more rules right now than he ever had at home. And though they are away from parents, they have the mission president and his wife that act like parents. If they break rules, they get called into the mission president's office. If they are sick the mission president's wife checks on them, and someone in the office takes them to the doctor and makes sure the bill gets paid.

 

They pay their own way ($400 a month for US residents), but all their bills are paid by the mission and they are given an...allotment? allowance?...every month to buy food and toiletries. My ds and his companion are living in an older couple's home, renting a room, so there is still a responsible, LDS adult right there if there are any problems.

 

I think they are being tested, but not in the same way they would be if they were just at college or working, living away from home.

[gardenmom5]

The church does have a welfare system where members who are struggling financially can get food, clothing, access to mental health services for free of charge. In some instances the Bishop of your ward will be able to help pay your mortgage or rent or even tuition. These are all things that have been used to bless people I know personally. This is done with the tithing money.

It should also be said - members who recieve assistance are asked to give in-kind service to others where they are able. they are able to have the self-respect of knowing they are contributing and not just receiving a dole. payment of utility bills/mortgage are only under VERY specific circumstances and are generally not done. these programs are not there to support a lifestyle, but to support "life" while someone gets back on their feet. extraneous "luxury" expenses (e.g. cable) that could be used to pay for food/utilities.etc. are expected to be cut out of a budget. If you think about it - there is much that people spend money on that are in reality, luxuries.

 

The Church does have welfare programs in place to help needy members (as well as humanitarian aid and such for those who are not members of our church). Personally, I live in a ward that has a lot of low income members. They struggle to make ends meet, and sometimes have to accept food assistance and/or help with paying rent or utility bills from the Church. I heard a clip recently where Bill Mahler (I think?) said something along the lines of, "tell me the name one poor Mormon" and everyone laughed. I could name a dozen off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more within my ward that I'm just not aware of...

I'm in a ward where we have HUD subsidized apartments (and have at times had members who lived in there.) and multi-million dollar waterfront homes. I too can name good active LDS families who have had serious financial struggles that were completely out of their control.

 

However, I'm not sure serving a mission would consider "being tested." I could be wrong as I never served a full-time mission (though my brothers and husband did), and my kids are still young. BUT, my understanding is that there are strict rules and guidelines to follow (down to certain appropriate dress standards). In my eyes, a mission would definitely be more training before sending your child out into the world.

I've a friend for whom it was a big test - she was NOT a follow the rules/keep a strict schedule person. dh knew her then, and he knew it was going to be hard for her for that reason. I met her many years later, and she's wonderful. love her dearly. - but I think the degree it was for her is the exception.

 

My daughter had an easy time for most of her mission. But she also gets along well with almost everyone.

 

missionaries do get experience living with, and having to get along with, someone they might not even spend time with if they weren't their missionary companion. Sometimes - that can be a real test.

 

After outfitting both a sister and an elder, I will say: In some ways, the sisters have more freedom about what clothes they wear.

[DianeW88]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

 

I do think our church places an emphasis on education. We are encouraged to learn and study all we can. We are also often instructed on provident living and how to best be happy no matter what our financial circumstances may be. We also have many church programs that help our members to better their situation in life, whether it be from our employment services, our universities or our welfare program. Here are some links:

 

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/04/becoming-provident-providers-temporally-and-spiritually?lang=eng

 

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/03/becoming-self-reliant-spiritually-and-physically?lang=eng&query=self-reliance

 

http://www.providentliving.org/

 

https://www.ldsjobs.org/ers/ct/?lang=eng The course on employment is available free to members and non-members alike. If you have an employment center near you, feel free to visit.

 

We also have welfare services available to all of our members. Nobody pays for anything, but we all donate our time and talents to help others and to make sure we all have sufficient. If members are struggling to put food on the table, the Relief Society president (women's organization) will come to your home to help you fill out a food order. After the bishop signs it, you can take it to the bishop's storehouse and obtain food sufficient to feed your family for two weeks at a time. This will not cost you anything. Our members fast one Sunday a month and contribute the cost of those two meals in a "fast offering" which pays for the needs of our members. Sometimes a member may need cash for gasoline to get to work, or may need for the bishop to pay their utility bills for a month or two until they get back on their feet. In return, they will provide service. But nobody will go hungry.

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/welfare-square-place-of-hope-for-the-needy

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595077938/UN-food-official-tours-lauds-Welfare-Square.html?pg=all

 

As far as teaching our youth, we have LOTS of help and support from our church. My children are so blessed to have had amazing leaders in their lives who truly love them and have gone out of their way to show support for my kids. Our church has a program for our youth (age 12-18) called "For the Strength of Youth" that helps them set goals, gives them guidance, and reminds them who they are (a son or daughter of their Heavenly Father) and what that means for their life. See the details and everything the program entails here: https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth?lang=eng I have loved this program and the blessings it has brought into our family.

 

We also read scriptures together and pray together (morning and night) as a family. Monday nights are family night, or as we call it, Family Home Evening. We have a lesson, a fun activity together and a treat. It's an opportunity to deepen and strengthen our bonds as a family. Is it perfect? NO! :lol: Many times there are arguments, pushing, whining, etc. during these activities...but being consistent helps. And the kids generally only remember the good stuff...or so I've found with mine.

 

Here's a link for Family Home Evening: http://www.lds.org/family/home-evening

 

As a woman in the church, I feel tremendously supported by the other women in my ward. We are organized into a Relief Society and meet together every Sunday (after our Sacrament Meeting and Sunday School class). I cannot tell you the strength and support we are to each other. I know I am never alone in anything I may be facing in my life. And I love these women dearly. It's truly like having fifty to a hundred sisters ready and willling to help, no matter what any of us need.

 

HTH answer some of your questions about how we live our daily lives. It's not perfect by any means, but we do try to be there to pick one another up when we fall. :)

[gardenmom5]

We also read scriptures together and pray together (morning and night) as a family. Monday nights are family night, or as we call it, Family Home Evening. We have a lesson, a fun activity together and a treat. It's an opportunity to deepen and strengthen our bonds as a family. Is it perfect? NO! :lol: Many times there are arguments, pushing, whining, etc. during these activities...but being consistent helps. And the kids generally only remember the good stuff...or so I've found with mine.

 

Here's a link for Family Home Evening: http://www.lds.org/family/home-evening

the only family fight that begins and ends with a prayer.;) I was :lol: when President Eyring (counselor in the first presidency) was telling how one son was mad because his brother was "breathing on" him. :lol: It is generally good memories.

and last night while having home evening, we were all districted by 7yo apsie making his nest and going round and roung like a cat trying to make the perfect "spot". it was very hard not to laugh.

 

As a woman in the church, I feel tremendously supported by the other women in my ward. We are organized into a Relief Society and meet together every Sunday (after our Sacrament Meeting and Sunday School class). I cannot tell you the strength and support we are to each other. I know I am never alone in anything I may be facing in my life. And I love these women dearly. It's truly like having fifty to a hundred sisters ready and willling to help, no matter what any of us need.

 

HTH answer some of your questions about how we live our daily lives. It's not perfect by any means, but we do try to be there to pick one another up when we fall. :)

:iagree: Relief Socity is an amazing group of women, we laugh, cry and share and despite many different circumstances are there for each other. it was organized in 1842 - so it is an old organization.

[LittleIzumi]

Wow, I missed a lot of fun today!!

 

*poke* Hey SpyCar, if you ever come visit, I'll take you to my ward...

 

and maybe try reading Moby Dick again. It'd be a fair trade, I think. :lol::lol::lol: And I am totally using that basement quote on people soon....

 

So, bacon, which causes the highest incidence of cholesterol, harms your body. You can have, but tea, which contains many antioxidants and good things for your body, you can't. Is that right? :confused:

 

We are supposed to eat meat sparingly. We eat a large percentage vegetarian here, but we did indeed have bacon this week. ;) (Nitrate-free local free-range bacon, but still. BACON.)

 

Not always. That depends on each set of parents. I'm sure there are some who do give such an ultimatum.

 

My younger brother did not serve a mission. He was still able to marry in the temple, receive the priesthood, and we still love him dearly.

 

Also, while I did laugh out loud about your basement joke, you have to understand that the followers of Satan in the premortal existence were also kicked out for rebelling against the Father. So back to the basement analogy, imagine the young adult not only wanting to stay in the basement forever, but also trying to take over his parents' household.

 

Maybe there are some spirits who don't want to come down and Heavenly Father is letting them wait until they're ready? Who knows. But they will need to come down eventually.

 

:iagree: I have one brother who served a mission & is an AMAZINGLY spiritual person. (We just had an amazing discussion last night that completely changed my perspective on scripture study and pondering. I was blown away.) I have another brother who is 18 and not interested in a mission, or in the church much. My parents try to show him as much love and be as strong examples as they can, but he's not getting any ****ation threats or big sermons. He knows what they (and I) believe and why, and we all love him regardless of his beliefs. If he changes his mind later, he won't be penalized for not serving a mission. The ladies might be a bit harder to persuade just due to the cultural expectation.

 

Certainly not all are wealthy, but I think the church's emphasis on education contributes.

 

Perhaps the Church's funding of BYU (tuition is very low) helps members, but members also tithe 10%.

 

One thing I have noticed: it is encouraged for LDS to not wait until they finish college or grad school or are established in their careers to have families. (By contrast, I know in some evangelical circles, men are discouraged from marrying before they can support a family.) I suspect that this encourages LDS to stay in school longer (increasing future earning potential) and it is not at all unusual or looked down on to have 1, 2, 3, whatever # of kids, and still be in college or grad school. Perhaps this leads to higher life time earnings?

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure in most cultures having two kids while getting my degree, and having another and planning more while dh gets his degrees, would not be normal. Not so in Utah. :tongue_smilie: Although that also puts on the decidedly not-wealthy list.

[I.Dup.]

I do think our church places an emphasis on education. We are encouraged to learn and study all we can. We are also often instructed on provident living and how to best be happy no matter what our financial circumstances may be. We also have many church programs that help our members to better their situation in life, whether it be from our employment services, our universities or our welfare program. Here are some links:

 

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/04/becoming-provident-providers-temporally-and-spiritually?lang=eng

 

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/03/becoming-self-reliant-spiritually-and-physically?lang=eng&query=self-reliance

 

http://www.providentliving.org/

 

https://www.ldsjobs.org/ers/ct/?lang=eng The course on employment is available free to members and non-members alike. If you have an employment center near you, feel free to visit.

 

We also have welfare services available to all of our members. Nobody pays for anything, but we all donate our time and talents to help others and to make sure we all have sufficient. If members are struggling to put food on the table, the Relief Society president (women's organization) will come to your home to help you fill out a food order. After the bishop signs it, you can take it to the bishop's storehouse and obtain food sufficient to feed your family for two weeks at a time. This will not cost you anything. Our members fast one Sunday a month and contribute the cost of those two meals in a "fast offering" which pays for the needs of our members. Sometimes a member may need cash for gasoline to get to work, or may need for the bishop to pay their utility bills for a month or two until they get back on their feet. In return, they will provide service. But nobody will go hungry.

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/welfare-square-place-of-hope-for-the-needy

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595077938/UN-food-official-tours-lauds-Welfare-Square.html?pg=all

 

As far as teaching our youth, we have LOTS of help and support from our church. My children are so blessed to have had amazing leaders in their lives who truly love them and have gone out of their way to show support for my kids. Our church has a program for our youth (age 12-18) called "For the Strength of Youth" that helps them set goals, gives them guidance, and reminds them who they are (a son or daughter of their Heavenly Father) and what that means for their life. See the details and everything the program entails here: https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth?lang=eng I have loved this program and the blessings it has brought into our family.

 

We also read scriptures together and pray together (morning and night) as a family. Monday nights are family night, or as we call it, Family Home Evening. We have a lesson, a fun activity together and a treat. It's an opportunity to deepen and strengthen our bonds as a family. Is it perfect? NO! :lol: Many times there are arguments, pushing, whining, etc. during these activities...but being consistent helps. And the kids generally only remember the good stuff...or so I've found with mine.

 

Here's a link for Family Home Evening: http://www.lds.org/family/home-evening

 

As a woman in the church, I feel tremendously supported by the other women in my ward. We are organized into a Relief Society and meet together every Sunday (after our Sacrament Meeting and Sunday School class). I cannot tell you the strength and support we are to each other. I know I am never alone in anything I may be facing in my life. And I love these women dearly. It's truly like having fifty to a hundred sisters ready and willling to help, no matter what any of us need.

 

HTH answer some of your questions about how we live our daily lives. It's not perfect by any means, but we do try to be there to pick one another up when we fall. :)

 

Thank you for the links and info! That's wonderful that you have a strong support system :)

[dangermom]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure in most cultures having two kids while getting my degree, and having another and planning more while dh gets his degrees, would not be normal. Not so in Utah. :tongue_smilie: Although that also puts on the decidedly not-wealthy list.

 

That's true--at BYU you see lots of babies being carted around to classes!

[Spy Car]

Monday nights are family night, or as we call it, Family Home Evening. We have a lesson, a fun activity together and a treat. It's an opportunity to deepen and strengthen our bonds as a family. Is it perfect? NO! :lol: Many times there are arguments, pushing, whining, etc. during these activities...but being consistent helps. And the kids generally only remember the good stuff...or so I've found with mine.

 

Here's a link for Family Home Evening: http://www.lds.org/family/home-evening

 

 

 

Believe it (or don't) but when I was a young teen my mother invited two earnest-young Morman missionaries to our home (where she met them I will never know) and they helped us initiate "Family Home Evening" at our house on Monday nights.

 

We'd have fun playing Scrabble and other board-games, and the like. While Family Home Evening only lasted some number of months before it broke down, we still (sometimes) refer to that time as our "Mormon years." :D

 

Is that enough to get me a recommend? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

[Lab1]

Believe it (or don't) but when I was a young teen my mother invited two earnest-young Morman missionaries to our home (where she met them I will never know) and they helped us initiate "Family Home Evening" at our house on Monday nights.

 

We'd have fun playing Scrabble and other board-games, and the like. While Family Home Evening only lasted some number of months before it broke down, we still (sometimes) refer to that time as our "Mormon years." :D

 

Is that enough to get me a recommend? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

Love it! Families everywhere are strengthened by spending time together! It doesn't need to be formal, but I think everyone benifits by being together.

[DianeW88]

Believe it (or don't) but when I was a young teen my mother invited two earnest-young Morman missionaries to our home (where she met them I will never know) and they helped us initiate "Family Home Evening" at our house on Monday nights.

 

We'd have fun playing Scrabble and other board-games, and the like. While Family Home Evening only lasted some number of months before it broke down, we still (sometimes) refer to that time as our "Mormon years." :D

 

Is that enough to get me a recommend? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

It'll get you going in the right direction! Like Little Izumi said, come to Utah, you can go to church with us and talk to the bishop about that recommend. We promise not to push you in the font. :lol:

 

And go ahead and keep having Family Night. We're watching Disney movies all this month for our fun activity...somehow my youngest child has never seen, half the Disney classics, and my older two are intent on correcting that. :D

 

My dh and his family used to play Risk for Family Home Evening...until it came to blows one night among him and his three brothers. :lol: Not exactly increasing family unity...but Risk tends to bring out the worst in people.

[meggie]

When I was little, we would play Trouble for FHE. The person who one got to pick where we went for dessert (so long as they picked Hardee's ;)). We stopped doing FHE the older we got. I really ought to start doing it in our family.

[dangermom]

And go ahead and keep having Family Night. We're watching Disney movies all this month for our fun activity...somehow my youngest child has never seen, half the Disney classics, and my older two are intent on correcting that. :D

 

 

I'm not much good at collecting Disney movies, and somehow my kids have still not seen the Little Mermaid. Now my oldest daughter is assigned "Under the Sea" for piano and she still hasn't seen it, though I found that song on Youtube. Yesterday I looked for it on Netflix, but they only had Little Shop of Horrors...so we watched that.

[Xuzi]

FHE is bad for my waistline. :lol: It's the only night of the week we have dessert, and my kids (and DH) won't settle for anything small and simple (or fruit :lol: ).

[Spy Car]

It'll get you going in the right direction! Like Little Izumi said, come to Utah, you can go to church with us and talk to the bishop about that recommend. We promise not to push you in the font. :lol:

 

Are you kidding? Try to keep me out of the font. The last one in is a rotten-egg :D

 

And go ahead and keep having Family Night. We're watching Disney movies all this month for our fun activity...somehow my youngest child has never seen, half the Disney classics, and my older two are intent on correcting that. :D

 

Could we stick with the name "Family Home Evening"?

 

Family night sounds so generically bland, as opposed to Mormonishly bland :tongue_smilie:

 

My dh and his family used to play Risk for Family Home Evening...until it came to blows one night among him and his three brothers. :lol: Not exactly increasing family unity...but Risk tends to bring out the worst in people.

 

OK, I kid you not...but I was going to mention Risk, but the division and the rancor, well it just seemed best to leave that part out. Too funny!!!

 

Bill

[LittleIzumi]

It'll get you going in the right direction! Like Little Izumi said, come to Utah, you can go to church with us and talk to the bishop about that recommend. We promise not to push you in the font. :lol:

 

And go ahead and keep having Family Night. We're watching Disney movies all this month for our fun activity...somehow my youngest child has never seen, half the Disney classics, and my older two are intent on correcting that. :D

 

My dh and his family used to play Risk for Family Home Evening...until it came to blows one night among him and his three brothers. :lol: Not exactly increasing family unity...but Risk tends to bring out the worst in people.

 

FTR, I did not make that promise. (This coming from someone who has a record of dumping buckets of water on members of the Stake Presidency while a teen at Girls' Camp. If there's a chance to get someone wet, I'll generally take it. :lol:)

 

And I agree on Risk. Well, regular Risk was okay, and the one on the moon, but LoTR Risk? Violence ensured, lol.

 

Are you kidding? Try to keep me out of the font. The last one in is a rotten-egg :D

 

 

 

Could we stick with the name "Family Home Evening"?

 

Family night sounds so generically bland, as opposed to Mormonishly bland :tongue_smilie:

 

As long as you have dessert. :lol: (Which we don't usually have. Don't tell anyone.)

[Spy Car]

I'm not much good at collecting Disney movies, and somehow my kids have still not seen the Little Mermaid. Now my oldest daughter is assigned "Under the Sea" for piano and she still hasn't seen it, though I found that song on Youtube. Yesterday I looked for it on Netflix, but they only had Little Shop of Horrors...so we watched that.

 

You all have electronic entertainment on Family Home Evenings? Wow! :lol:

 

Bill (traditionalist)

[Spy Car]

 

As long as you have dessert. :lol: (Which we don't usually have. Don't tell anyone.)

 

Jello-salad may prove to be a bigger impediment than the lack of caffeine.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Love it! Families everywhere are strengthened by spending time together! It doesn't need to be formal, but I think everyone benifits by being together.

 

:iagree:

 

I still love family time and game nights.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Wow, I missed a lot of fun today!!

 

*poke* Hey SpyCar, if you ever come visit, I'll take you to my ward...

 

and maybe try reading Moby Dick again. It'd be a fair trade, I think. :lol::lol::lol: And I am totally using that basement quote on people soon....

 

 

 

Deal.

 

And how funny would it be if the basement line catches on and someday in the future an intrepid researcher in Salt Lake traces the origins of the phrase back to this thread? Stranger things have happened.

 

Bill

[dangermom]

You all have electronic entertainment on Family Home Evenings? Wow! :lol:

 

Bill (traditionalist)

 

:D Oh no, that was just in general. We do not watch Disney movies, or black comedy musicals, for FHE. :lol:

[Spy Car]

:D Oh no, that was just in general. We do not watch Disney movies, or black comedy musicals, for FHE. :lol:

 

Oh thank goodness! :D

 

I mean I didn't want to appear judgmental or anything but....

 

What about re-runs of Donny and Marie? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

[garddwr]

Oh thank goodness! :D

 

I mean I didn't want to appear judgmental or anything but....

 

What about re-runs of Donny and Marie? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

I'm afraid I've never watched Donny and Marie. But I finally clicked on this thread and realized I've missed out on a lot of fun!

 

Our Family Home Evening last night was supposed to be weeding an onion field--the LDS church runs welfare farms all over the country, where food is produced that is then distributed to those in need. The one near us happens to grow onions, and of course weeds...so we went to help with weeding but found the field had recently been sprayed and had signs warning not to enter. So we let the kids play jumping over the irrigation ditch for a bit, then came home to weed our own garden and eat popsicles. So now we plan to weed onions next Monday--come join us!

[Lab1]

What about this...there seems to be a certain...financial status of Mormons. They seem, across the board, to be successful and wealthy. Am I imagining this? Or does the church somehow help its members achieve this financial success?

 

I just lost a huge post! I think what you see is an illusion, but there are very wealthy and poor members. We lived far below the poverty level for 8 yrs. No one would have thought it by looking at us. Our Bishop tried to offer us help thinking surely we were in trouble. All our bills were paid and our children provided for. I just knew how to pinch a penny. My husband has a nice job now and we still live a simple life. We have a nice lower middle class home. Our family income is much less then our neighbors, yet we live a good life.

 

By following the Word of Wisdom and paying tithing, many members live a life that seems above their means. Alcohol, tobacco products and even coffee are huge money users. The monitary benifits of not purchasing these items goes goes a long way in a lifetime. Just think of the money some people pay to Starbucks a year!

 

Paying tithing has huge monitary benifit. Its a principle the rich understand. The more money a person gives, the richer they become. It isn't dependent on religeous beliefs. I can't remember the name, but its an accounting principle. As a church, we have many oportunities to give money and time. We don't pay a clergy. Our Bishop and all members serve as volunteers. That isn't to be assumed that they volunteer, but are asked to serve in that position. It is usually very humbaling to be called to a position. Every member that is able to serves. We serve with our time and talents in addition to tithes and offerings to bless othersin need. Oyr humanitarian efforts are on a huge global scale. Each member gives what they are able.

 

We are very wealthy as a church. Our members can appear that way, when the numbers don't show it. Its honestly a mental game. We are rich in many more ways then income.

[gardenmom5]

Jello-salad may prove to be a bigger impediment than the lack of caffeine.

 

Bill

 

jello salad is a utah thing - here we have chocolate. ;) (and I figure if I'm going to ingest those calories, they'd better taste GOOD!)

[Spy Car]

I'm afraid I've never watched Donny and Marie.

 

For real??? :askance_look:

 

 

But I finally clicked on this thread and realized I've missed out on a lot of fun!

 

Oh yea. Jump on in...the font is warm :D

 

Our Family Home Evening last night was supposed to be weeding an onion field--the LDS church runs welfare farms all over the country, where food is produced that is then distributed to those in need. The one near us happens to grow onions, and of course weeds...so we went to help with weeding...

 

At this point in the story my heart is glowing, and then....

 

but found the field had recently been sprayed and had signs warning not to enter.

 

Say what? :eek:

 

If I were in the First Presidency I'd insist on organic farms. Somehow pesticides and humanitarian good-works clash in my mind.

 

On with the story...

 

So we let the kids play jumping over the irrigation ditch for a bit, then came home to weed our own garden and eat popsicles. So now we plan to weed onions next Monday--come join us!

 

Saved in Act III!

 

Sounds like a fun night.

 

In all sincerity I think doing things like helping grow food for those in need are a wonderful way to inculcate values into our family life. I admire this greatly. And I would accept the invitation to join you but....errr...uh...Monday we've got piano lessons

 

Work on Act II.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

jello salad is a utah thing - here we have chocolate. ;) (and I figure if I'm going to ingest those calories, they'd better taste GOOD!)

 

Chocolate? Really!?

 

Outside Utah can one get away with luke-warm coffee? ;)

 

Iced coffee?

 

Bill

[LittleIzumi]

jello salad is a utah thing - here we have chocolate. ;) (and I figure if I'm going to ingest those calories, they'd better taste GOOD!)

 

And it's not universal. ACK.

 

Say what? :eek:

 

If I were in the First Presidency I'd insist on organic farms. Somehow pesticides and humanitarian good-works clash in my mind.

 

I'll sign the petition with you. :D

[Mama2Many4]

Two questions:

 

Why do you not drink wine if Jesus Christ himself turned water into wine, drank wine, etc.j

 

Do you know that Joseph Smith was a Freemason and died a Freemason. So how do you identify as a Mormon when your prophet was a mason? He wrote the book and then ten years later founded a Freemason lodge?

 

I'm trying to understand where you get all your info from if so much of it is contradictory.

[meggie]

Two questions:

 

Why do you not drink wine if Jesus Christ himself turned water into wine, drank wine, etc.j

 

Do you know that Joseph Smith was a Freemason and died a Freemason. So how do you identify as a Mormon when your prophet was a mason? He wrote the book and then ten years later founded a Freemason lodge?

 

I'm trying to understand where you get all your info from if so much of it is contradictory.

We believe that in Christ's day, God's people had a dietary code. They were allowed to eat and drink some things; they weren't supposed to eat other things.

 

We believe that today, the dietary code is different. We are allowed to eat some things they weren't, we are not allowed to eat some things that they were. Hence my bacon joke.

 

Yes, I did know Joseph Smith was a mason. But that is not a religion. In fact, my LDS History professor at BYU strongly suspects that Joseph Smith became a mason for external support. I'm not all that familiar with the Free Masons, but isn't there some sort of brotherhood? My professor thought JS was trying to make friends at a time when the church was being severely persecuted.

[Spy Car]

George Washington was a Mason.

 

Bill

[Mama2Many4]

We believe that in Christ's day, God's people had a dietary code. They were allowed to eat and drink some things; they weren't supposed to eat other things.

 

We believe that today, the dietary code is different. We are allowed to eat some things they weren't, we are not allowed to eat some things that they were. Hence my bacon joke.

 

Yes, I did know Joseph Smith was a mason. But that is not a religion. In fact, my LDS History professor at BYU strongly suspects that Joseph Smith became a mason for external support. I'm not all that familiar with the Free Masons, but isn't there some sort of brotherhood? My professor thought JS was trying to make friends at a time when the church was being severely persecuted.

 

Okay, thank you for clarifying those things. Freemason is a brotherhood, but with many symbolic attributes it seems like a religion to me.

[Lab1]

jello salad is a utah thing - here we have chocolate. ;) (and I figure if I'm going to ingest those calories, they'd better taste GOOD!)

 

I'm in Utah and never get Jello salad. I'm trying to remember if I've had it. We aren't pioneer heritage, so maybe thats why.

 

On with the chocolate! I have a fabulous chocolate cheesecake recipe. I only make for guests so I don't eat it all.

 

No caffiene is a rule others put on LDS people. We don't drink coffee or tea (herbal is fine), but caffiene is a personal choice. My family doesn't drink carbonation as we feel its very bad for you. Its a choice my husband and I made. Actually my husband has a carbonated drink like Mt. Dew ever so often. I never buy it. He's more of a "social drinker" I guess. :lol:

[meggie]

Okay, thank you for clarifying those things. Freemason is a brotherhood, but with many symbolic attributes it seems like a religion to me.

No problem. I've heard it being compared to Boy Scouts. Members of our church are often involved in the Boy Scout organization, but that doesn't make it part of our religion. Not sure if that's helpful or not. I don't know that much about Free Masons OR Boy Scouts so I couldn't really say :001_smile:

[LittleIzumi]

Two questions:

 

Why do you not drink wine if Jesus Christ himself turned water into wine, drank wine, etc.j

 

Do you know that Joseph Smith was a Freemason and died a Freemason. So how do you identify as a Mormon when your prophet was a mason? He wrote the book and then ten years later founded a Freemason lodge?

 

I'm trying to understand where you get all your info from if so much of it is contradictory.

 

The water wasn't exactly safe to drink all the time in Christ's day. And of course, even then "wine bibbing" was spoken against. (Not the same thing, I know.) Christ did what was correct in his time (as the Law of Moses was correct in its time, and Christ followed it, and then Christ said he fulfilled the Law of Moses and gave them a new law--and now the Church has been restored and we have the dietary code given for our day).

[Lab1]

Okay, thank you for clarifying those things. Freemason is a brotherhood, but with many symbolic attributes it seems like a religion to me.

 

I can see where you are coming from. Masons are men only and while they have symbolism and ceremonies, they are not a religion. My great uncle was up at the top of their organization. He was not LDS, but my mom said he was the most spiritual person she had ever met. He died before I was born. My mom said his funeral was like if one of our Apostles died.

[garddwr]

For real??? :askance_look:

 

If I were in the First Presidency I'd insist on organic farms. Somehow pesticides and humanitarian good-works clash in my mind.

 

 

 

In all sincerity I think doing things like helping grow food for those in need are a wonderful way to inculcate values into our family life. I admire this greatly. And I would accept the invitation to join you but....errr...uh...Monday we've got piano lessons

 

 

Bill

 

Maybe that's what the missionary program is really about--we're trying to switch to organic farming but don't have enough manpower to pick off all the bugs by hand. In fact, I'm convinced that if you and all your family and friends would just join the church it would tip the scale and we could start producing organic onions. Obviously you need to convert for the sake of humanity and the environment!

[Spy Car]

Maybe that's what the missionary program is really about--we're trying to switch to organic farming but don't have enough manpower to pick off all the bugs by hand. In fact, I'm convinced that if you and all your family and friends would just join the church it would tip the scale and we could start producing organic onions. Obviously you need to convert for the sake of humanity and the environment!

 

You make some compelling arguments :D

 

Bill

[Rene']

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this discussion!

 

Hey, if anyone wants to answer my questions about other POVs on the Fall from the first page, I really do wonder about these things and I've never gotten anyone to answer them! Here they are for your convenience.

Which leads me to the questions I've always had about the mainstream viewpoint. As far as I can tell, the usual view (at least how I've heard it here on WTM) is that the Fall was not how the plan was supposed to go, and the plan with a Savior to redeem us was put in place after Adam and Eve messed it up. But how can that be? How could God be thwarted like that? Why put that tree into Eden in the first place, if the whole purpose of the tree was to mess up the paradisiacal existence God had planned for all of humanity?

 

I guess just as you are puzzled by our beliefs, I am puzzled by yours. :001_smile:

 

I'm just a Bible Believer, and I don't align or identify myself with any specific Church or branch of Christianity. Many of my views are different from the mainstream. I, too, don't believe that Jesus was "plan B" - the bible says that He is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev 13:8).

 

I do believe God's desire was that Adam/man would trust and obey Him. But God knew that, given a choice, man would not obey - not every time anyway. A choice had to be given because character cannot be built where there is no choice between right and wrong, and love cannot be truly given where there is no option to hate. The tree was the choice - obey and trust God and maintain access to the Tree of Live, or disobey God's commandment, making death certain.

 

Where we disagree here is that I believe Adam and Eve could have had children in the garden, I just don't think they were there long enough for it to happen. I think they were in the garden for a very very short time.

 

Continued--because of our doctrine, we see the Fall very differently than mainstream Christians.

 

2. We do not believe in original sin; we are born fallen, yes, but innocent. We suffer for our own sins, but not for Adam and Eve's.

I agree with ya'll there. :001_smile: Except that I disagree that we are born fallen. I believe that when we are born we are the same as Adam when he was created - in God's image and innocent. No where does the Bible say that Adam changed when he sinned or that any change to man or his nature was passed down.

 

What exactly is the LDS understanding of man being "fallen"?