LDS ladies, please comment - view of Adam and Eve

[blondeviolin]

I think part of the confusion about the Gods/Goddesses thing is that we believe that the Abrahamic Covenant can be extended to us. In such a covenant with Abraham, God promised, "And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered." We believe this doesn't just pertain to our earthly life, but that it extends to eternal life as well.

 

Here is a little video by one of our apostles, Russel M. Nelson, that discusses this.

[Amira]

So is it fair to say that by tradition and folklore that the common LDS belief is that those awaiting a physical-mortal birth on earth spend their pre-mortal existence in God's presence? And that the pre-mortal relationship with the divine (as opposed to the mortal one) was not severed as a result of "The Fall"?

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Bill

 

I never thought about it that way, that the Fall only applied on the earth, and not in the pre-mortal existence. I suspect that's because that separation is a condition of mortality, but I'm just guessing.

[Xuzi]

From Doctrine and Covenants section 88:

14 Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.

 

15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.

 

16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.

 

17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.

[DianeW88]

You are correct. I have nothing but websites to go by when Googling. It is something I have read more than once though, so thought it was something that was widely taught. I am not versed in the Mormon faith, and truly mean to hostility. Just couldn't understand why I'd worship someone I felt equal to, which is how they made it sound. :tongue_smilie:

 

I know. LOL There are plenty out there. I also know there are plenty of anti-Catholic ones, too. Definitely not the ones you want to seek out when you want to know what either church truly teaches. :lol:

 

For questions on the LDS church (and the correct answers) I recommend www.lds.org or www.mormon.org The search engines aren't always the greatest (I think they're working on that), but they are a great place to start, and we're always happy to answer questions here as well.

[Amira]

The Mormon view (or not?) of becoming gods and goddesses with planets is something my parents always brought up to completely discount Mormonism. So I am interested to understand if this really is taught anywhere? Where are Mormons coming up with this if it is not taught or talked about anywhere? (hoping I don't sound condescending, I really am interested to learn :) )

 

Let me clarify- it's not currently emphasized. Several early prophets (Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow, in particular) taught along this line, but it's not (and I don't think it ever was) a fundamental doctrine. But I suspect that since it sounds so crazy to many people that it's easy for others to emphasize.

[DianeW88]

No, you've about got it. :) It's when we enter mortal life that we leave His presence.

 

Although to clarify something Diane said: Our *spirits* live with God in Heaven, our *Souls* are when our spirit and physical body combine. (and there's a scripture about that that's just on the tip of my tongue, I'll have to go look it up)

 

Yep, you're right. I only used the word "soul" because I know other Christian religions use that term to mean what we (LDS) think of as the spirit. Or at least I did before I joined the church...fifty million years ago. :lol:

[HSmomNY]

Great talk by Elder Maxwell, I miss his talks.

 

I hope we can help you understand more about what we believe. No I am not waiting on my own planet.:tongue_smilie:

But yes I believe that Heavenly Father is the father of my spirit and that His work and His glory is to being to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

I believe that through the atonement of Christ I can become a "joint heir with Christ", gaining all that the Father hath.

I believe that the Holy Spirit, teaches, guides, comforts and supports me on my daily journey.

 

I hope that helps.

[blondeviolin]

So is it fair to say that by tradition and folklore that the common LDS belief is that those awaiting a physical-mortal birth on earth spend their pre-mortal existence in God's presence? And that the pre-mortal relationship with the divine (as opposed to the mortal one) was not severed as a result of "The Fall"?

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Bill

 

Yes, we lived with God before we were born. We believe a veil is placed in our minds which precludes us from remembering our pre-earth life. In my understanding, "the fall" means that we could no longer walk and talk with God. So, yes, we believe that those who are still living with God have yet to experience "the fall." In some ways, there is "the fall" as it pertains to humans collectively, and also "the fall" where we individually and knowingly leave the presence of our Father.

[Spy Car]

Great question! You're really making us work this morning, aren't you? :D

 

No, we do not believe pre-mortal existence ended with the Fall. We believe that every human being who comes to us begins his/her journey in spirit (soul) form with our Heavenly Father. We believe we are his children and we start our lives (that continuum thing) in heaven in His presence.

 

We believe we spend that time learning, growing in knowledge and developing to the point that we are ready to leave. Much as a human child will spend time on earth doing the same thing with their earthly parents.

 

Here is a talk by a leader of our church regarding the pre-existence. This is by Neal A. Maxwell (now deceased), and he can be quite deep. Well worth reading, but you might want to drink another cup before you start. ;)

 

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1985/10/premortality-a-glorious-reality?lang=eng

 

Before I hit the link I may need to brew another pot.

 

Your post does prompt another question (like you should be surprised :tongue_smilie).

 

Is there a commonly held believe about the capacity of the pre-mortals (is there an alternate term we prefer?) to distinguish good from evil? Do they have the moral capacity that Adam and Eve helped bestow on physical-mortals as a result of their transgression? Or not?

 

If not, how is it understood that they gain knowledge in this soul-state?

 

And do we retain the pre-mortal education once we take on a physical existence? And in what ways does that education manifest itself?

 

Sure you don't want even a demi-tasse?

 

Bill

[I.Dup.]

OK, thanks for the links. I enjoy learning :)

 

I do have more questions:

 

Why do you avoid caffeine and alcohol?

 

What is it that motivates Mormons to live such moral lives, if the afterlife is not really emphasized?

[Mama2Many4]

I know. LOL There are plenty out there. I also know there are plenty of anti-Catholic ones, too. Definitely not the ones you want to seek out when you want to know what either church truly teaches. :lol:

 

For questions on the LDS church (and the correct answers) I recommend www.lds.org[/b]"]www.lds.org or www.mormon.org The search engines aren't always the greatest (I think they're working on that), but they are a great place to start, and we're always happy to answer questions here as well.

 

Very interesting. It's funny how there are so many religions, with so many different beliefs. I guess my main belief is that God made us ALL, so he seeks us all to return to him. Whatever way we need to believe that is just extra. If we prove ourselves worthy, good beings. Then we'll make it back. I'm Catholic, you're Mormon. But you're still my sister since we have the same Father. KWIM? ;) We'll both find our way back to him. We just think differently on it. He knew the outcome of our lives before he made us all. And he sees us all as "good".

 

I'm having coffee right now, maybe I'm not making sense. :tongue_smilie:

[I.Dup.]

The yet-to-be-born still live in the presence of God until the time when their souls enter their physical bodies (which we have no idea at which point that happens. Conception? birth? sometime in between? We dunno.)

 

What is the Mormon teaching on abortion?

[Spy Car]

Yes, we lived with God before we were born. We believe a veil is placed in our minds which precludes us from remembering our pre-earth life. In my understanding, "the fall" means that we could no longer walk and talk with God. So, yes, we believe that those who are still living with God have yet to experience "the fall." In some ways, there is "the fall" as it pertains to humans collectively, and also "the fall" where we individually and knowingly leave the presence of our Father.

 

Is it possible in LDS belief for a pre-mortal who is enjoying being in God's presence to object to taking on a physical-mortal body and appeal (successfully or not) to remain with God? Have any attempted this?

 

Or are all pre-mortals required to pass through a mortal life stage?

 

Is there any significance to when (in time) a pre-mortal leaves God's presence? Anything like the more favored (or able) go first or last? Or is this not an issue of LDS teaching?

 

Bill

[Xuzi]

What is the Mormon teaching on abortion?

 

It's allowed in cases of rape, incest, or if the health of the mother is in danger. It's *not* to be taken on lightly though. It's generally strongly recommended that council from the Priesthood (typically your congregation's Bishop) be sought, in addition to prayer and fasting, prior to the decision being made.

[Amira]

Before I hit the link I may need to brew another pot.

 

Your post does prompt another question (like you should be surprised :tongue_smilie).

 

Is there a commonly held believe about the capacity of the pre-mortals (is there an alternate term we prefer?) to distinguish good from evil? Do they have the moral capacity that Adam and Eve helped bestow on physical-mortals as a result of their transgression? Or not?

 

If not, how is it understood that they gain knowledge in this soul-state?

 

And do we retain the pre-mortal education once we take on a physical existence? And in what ways does that education manifest itself?

 

Sure you don't want even a demi-tasse?

 

Bill

 

We believe that we had the ability to make choices in that pre-mortal state because we chose to follow God instead of Lucifer in the "war in heaven" which was before Eve and Adam were on the earth. However, I think that's about all we can infer about that time. I don't think we know anything about how we gained knowledge then. I don't think anything Eve and Adam did in the Garden of Eden changed things for anyone who hasn't been born, but, again, that's just what I think and I've not really thought about it that way before.

 

We cannot remember or access that pre-mortal knowledge while we're on the earth as mortals. To me, that's a no-brainer, because if we remembered our pre-mortal existence and knew exactly what God wanted us to do, it would make the choices we have here on the earth a lot less interesting.

[blondeviolin]

Before I hit the link I may need to brew another pot.

 

Your post does prompt another question (like you should be surprised :tongue_smilie).

 

Is there a commonly held believe about the capacity of the pre-mortals (is there an alternate term we prefer?) to distinguish good from evil? Do they have the moral capacity that Adam and Eve helped bestow on physical-mortals as a result of their transgression? Or not?

 

If not, how is it understood that they gain knowledge in this soul-state?

 

And do we retain the pre-mortal education once we take on a physical existence? And in what ways does that education manifest itself?

 

Sure you don't want even a demi-tasse?

 

Bill

 

Now you're really getting into some good things. We believe that in this pre-earth life, we had agency.

 

We chose to come to earth to gain a body and experience. In order to be tested properly, there is a veil drawn that inhibits us from remembering our pre-earth life. If we remembered, it would be a lot like having all the answers all the time. There would be no learning and growth.

 

Here is a little video about our pre-earth life.

 

Personally, I do believe we had testimonies of certain things before coming to this earth. They could be manifested in feelings you may have about certain doctrine, experiences or skills you possess, talents, etc. We are all unique individuals and our personalities are unique from the day we are born.

[meggie]

What is the Mormon teaching on abortion?

 

 

Church policy is this:

 

Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.

 

Additional Information

 

In today's society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments. Latter-day prophets have denounced abortion, referring to the Lord's declaration, “Thou shalt not . . . kill, nor do anything like unto it” (D&C 59:6). Their counsel on the matter is clear: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion. Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

When a child is conceived out of wedlock, the best option is for the mother and father of the child to marry and work toward establishing an eternal family relationship. If a successful marriage is unlikely, they should place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS Family Services (see “Adoption”).

—See True to the Faith (2004), 4-5

 

Whoops, found this line as well: As far as has been revealed, a person may repent and be forgiven for the sin of abortion.

Edited June 12, 2012 by meggie

[HSmomNY]

What is the Mormon teaching on abortion?

From the Church's Web site - Official position

 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in the sanctity of human life. Therefore, the Church opposes elective abortion for personal or social convenience, and counsels its members not to submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions.

 

The Church allows for possible exceptions for its members when:

 

Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or

A competent physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or

A competent physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.

The Church teaches its members that even these rare exceptions do not justify abortion automatically. Abortion is a most serious matter and should be considered only after the persons involved have consulted with their local church leaders and feel through personal prayer that their decision is correct.

 

The Church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion.

 

Why do you avoid caffeine and alcohol?

 

Our Bodies Are Temples of God

One of the great blessings we received when we came to earth was a physical body. We need a physical body to become like our Heavenly Father. Our bodies are so important that the Lord calls them temples of God (see 1 Corinthians 3:16–17; 6:19–20). Our bodies are holy.

 

Because our bodies are important, our Father in Heaven wants us to take good care of them. He knows that we can be happier, better people if we are healthy. The Holy Ghost can be with us if our bodies and minds are clean. Our Father knows that we face temptations to treat our bodies unwisely or to take harmful things into them. For this reason He has told us which things are good for our health and which things are bad. Much of the information God has given us concerning good health is found in Doctrine and Covenants 89. This revelation is called the Word of Wisdom.

 

We must obey the Word of Wisdom to be worthy to enter the temple. If we do not obey the Word of Wisdom, the Lord’s Spirit withdraws from us. If we defile the “temple of God,†which is our body, we hurt ourselves physically and spiritually.

 

We Are Commanded Not to Take Certain Things into Our Bodies

 

The Lord commands us not to use wine and strong drinks, meaning drinks containing alcohol. The First Presidency has taught that strong drink often brings cruelty, poverty, disease, and plague into the home. It often is a cause of dishonesty, loss of chastity, and loss of good judgment. It is a curse to all who drink it. (See “Message of the First Presidency,†Improvement Era, Nov. 1942, 686.) Expectant mothers who drink can cause physical and mental damage to their children. Many automobile accidents are caused each year by people who drink alcohol.

 

The Lord has also told us that “tobacco is not for the body†(D&C 89:8). It is harmful to our bodies and our spirits. We should not smoke cigarettes or cigars or use chewing tobacco. Scientists have shown that tobacco causes many diseases and can harm unborn children.

 

The Lord also counsels us against the use of “hot drinks†(D&C 89:9). Church leaders have said that this means coffee and tea, which contain harmful substances. We should avoid all drinks that contain harmful substances.

 

We should not use drugs except when they are necessary as medicine. Some drugs are even more harmful than alcohol and tobacco (which are also drugs). Those who misuse drugs need to seek help, pray for strength, and counsel with their bishop so they can fully repent and become clean.

 

We should avoid anything that we know is harmful to our bodies. We should not use any substance that is habit forming. We should also avoid overeating. The Word of Wisdom does not tell us everything to avoid or consume, but it does give us guidelines. It is a valuable temporal law. It is also a great spiritual law. By living the Word of Wisdom, we become stronger spiritually. We purify our bodies so the Spirit of the Lord can dwell with us.

[blondeviolin]

Is it possible in LDS belief for a pre-mortal who is enjoying being in God's presence to object to taking on a physical-mortal body and appeal (successfully or not) to remain with God? Have any attempted this?

 

Or are all pre-mortals required to pass through a mortal life stage?

 

Is there any significance to when (in time) a pre-mortal leaves God's presence? Anything like the more favored (or able) go first or last? Or is this not an issue of LDS teaching?

 

Bill

 

It is taught that we all chose to gain a body and follow Christ. There were those who did not like the plan and chose to follow a different man, Lucifer. One-third of the hosts of heaven chose that path. They were cast from heaven, Lucifer became the Satan, and did not gain a body.

 

We believe that our spirits were fore-ordained to do certain things. We say fore-ordained because we have the choice to follow that path or not. Noble and great men lived, live, and will live among all periods of time. (See Abraham 3:22-23.)

[dangermom]

A note on the Word of Wisdom--we believe that it is a modern commandment that was not always in force. People in Biblical times (and many other times!) drank alcohol without sin, but at this time, God has advised us with the Word of Wisdom for our health and happiness.

 

When my kids wonder about other people who do drink or smoke, I tell them that while we make a promise to Heavenly Father not to do those things, other people haven't, and we shouldn't think that makes them bad people. (You know how little kids are about rules!)

[DianeW88]

Before I hit the link I may need to brew another pot.

 

Your post does prompt another question (like you should be surprised :tongue_smilie).

 

Is there a commonly held believe about the capacity of the pre-mortals (is there an alternate term we prefer?) to distinguish good from evil? Do they have the moral capacity that Adam and Eve helped bestow on physical-mortals as a result of their transgression? Or not?

 

If not, how is it understood that they gain knowledge in this soul-state?

 

And do we retain the pre-mortal education once we take on a physical existence? And in what ways does that education manifest itself?

 

Sure you don't want even a demi-tasse?

 

Bill

 

I'll try this without one. :D

 

Yes, as a spirit before our earth life, we do have the knowledge of good and evil and of our Heavenly Father's plan. We lived in His presence and learned whatever it was we needed to learn to live our life here on earth. The choice to come to earth and gain a body, and thus the opportunity to progress is fully ours. And we chose it with full knowledge of what life on earth is like.

 

When we come to earth, we believe that knowledge is kept from us for a time so that we may have the opportunity to learn and grow and make choices in an environment where there is temptation and opposition.

 

We also believe that we will have help and guidance from our Heavenly Father through scripture, prayer and personal revelation from the Holy Ghost, as well as from church leaders and those around us.

 

We believe our time on earth helps us to develop those qualities (empathy, service, humility, love, etc.) that enable us to be more like the Savior.

 

If you live in a bubble of perfection with your parents always at your side, always telling you what to do and never allowing you the opportunity to make your own mistakes and grow from them...you are deprived of the ability to become your own person. And as we've all seen kids like that on earth...you know how that turns out. :lol:

 

Our Heavenly Father, being the perfect parent, allows us the opportunities that many mortal parents are afraid to take with their own children. Greatly oversimplifying it....He allows us to "grow-up". With all the pain, mistakes and difficulties that come with it. In the end, we are better people for it. Athough at times the journey may be painful, the end reward is worth it...a thousand times over.

 

When we are here on earth, we do have some knowledge, in that we generally recognize truth. We have the capacity to learn. We can "feel" or know things to be correct. We have a moral code that we might argue is somewhat "inbred". Most sin is generally repugnant to us. However, the choices we make here about how to live our lives belongs wholly to us.

 

When we return to our Heavenly Father's presence, our full knowledge is restored.

 

I probably missed something in your question, so feel free to ask again if I didn't address it to your satisfaction. :D

[meggie]

A note on the Word of Wisdom--we believe that it is a modern commandment that was not always in force. People in Biblical times (and many other times!) drank alcohol without sin, but at this time, God has advised us with the Word of Wisdom for our health and happiness.

 

When my kids wonder about other people who do drink or smoke, I tell them that while we make a promise to Heavenly Father not to do those things, other people haven't, and we shouldn't think that makes them bad people. (You know how little kids are about rules!)

 

I do kinda like that fact that we get to eat bacon ;) Mmmm....bacon.

[Mama2Many4]

I have a question.

 

When a baby is aborted, do you believe that the baby never had a spirit in that body? Do you believe we wait in heaven for a suitable body to become available? So if a baby had birth defects that wouldn't allow it to live after birth, would a soul ever have entered it?

 

This is very confusing to me. :p

[Spy Car]

Now you're really getting into some good things. We believe that in this pre-earth life, we had agency.

 

What does "agency" mean exactly? Does agency include moral-capacity (ability to distinguish good from evil) or is it more akin to a human-toddler who might eat things you've told them not to, but they really have no moral sense of their acts?

 

We chose to come to earth to gain a body and experience. In order to be tested properly, there is a veil drawn that inhibits us from remembering our pre-earth life. If we remembered, it would be a lot like having all the answers all the time. There would be no learning and growth.

 

If the pre-mortal education and training can not be drawn upon in mortal-life what is its purpose? Is it something that is re-realized in post-mortal life?

 

Here is a little video about our pre-earth life.

 

Personally, I do believe we had testimonies of certain things before coming to this earth. They could be manifested in feelings you may have about certain doctrine, experiences or skills you possess, talents, etc. We are all unique individuals and our personalities are unique from the day we are born.

 

Am I understanding it correctly that perhaps small glimpses of the pre-mortal existence might be presented as small glimmers in some peoples minds on occasion. Or am I misreading this?

 

Bill

[Mama2Many4]

I do kinda like that fact that we get to eat bacon ;) Mmmm....bacon.

 

So, bacon, which causes the highest incidence of cholesterol, harms your body. You can have, but tea, which contains many antioxidants and good things for your body, you can't. Is that right? :confused:

[DianeW88]

I have a question.

 

When a baby is aborted, do you believe that the baby never had a spirit in that body? Do you believe we wait in heaven for a suitable body to become available? So if a baby had birth defects that wouldn't allow it to live after birth, would a soul ever have entered it?

 

This is very confusing to me. :p

 

Here is an article from our church website on stillborn babies and miscarriage: http://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/09/i-have-a-question/i-have-a-question?lang=eng&query=stillbirth

[Amira]

So, bacon, which causes the highest incidence of cholesterol, harms your body. You can have, but tea, which contains many antioxidants and good things for your body, you can't. Is that right? :confused:

 

Don't take away all my potential vices!

 

Personally, I don't think the Word of Wisdom is meant to detail healthy eating in every single circumstance and it's not necessarily useful to look at it only that way. For me, it's not just about the health benefits. Although it would make my life a lot easier if I didn't have to refuse tea everywhere I go in Asia.

[Mama2Many4]

Don't take away all my potential vices!

 

Personally, I don't think the Word of Wisdom is meant to detail healthy eating in every single circumstance and it's not necessarily useful to look at it only that way. For me, it's not just about the health benefits. Although it would make my life a lot easier if I didn't have to refuse tea everywhere I go in Asia.

 

Hopefully there are no church leaders reading this who can change things.:tongue_smilie:

 

Alcohol I can see, smoking for sure. But I get lost at tea and coffee. Don't mind me.

[I.Dup.]

Is there a link to the Word of Wisdom? So I'm guessing you cannot have sodas either, right? So by not following these guidelines, the Lord's Spirit definitely leaves the person? Does that mean they would go to hell? Is there a concept of mortal sin in the LDS church?

[I.Dup.]

and I'm still wondering about the gods and goddesses and planets thing....if the afterlife is not detailed, what is it that motivates Mormons to live such moral lives? I'm not sure if that was answered yet...:confused:

[DianeW88]

What does "agency" mean exactly? Does agency include moral-capacity (ability to distinguish good from evil) or is it more akin to a human-toddler who might eat things you've told them not to, but they really have no moral sense of their acts?

 

Agency is your ability to choose your own destiny...so to speak. It is your freedom to live your life in the way you want to live it. Yes, it involves choosing between good and evil, but it isn't limited to that. It encompasses all choices you make in life and the person you ultimately become because of those choices.

 

You do make an excellent point about little children. We do not believe that children are held responsible for their choices until they reach the age of accountability....age 8. That is the age where they are baptized in our church and become accountable for sin. Prior to that, we believe that little children are "covered" by the Atonment of Jesus Christ for any wrongdoing they may engage in. We do not believe that children are "born in sin" or separated from God's love in any way. We believe they are innocent.

 

 

 

If the pre-mortal education and training can not be drawn upon in mortal-life what is its purpose? Is it something that is re-realized in post-mortal life?

 

Because we are here to be tested, pre-mortal knowledge is not generally available to us here on earth. We will be able to draw on all the knowledge we have gained (both pre-mortal and mortal) and we continue our post-mortal lives. Again, we consider our earth life to be only a small part of our entire life.

 

 

Am I understanding it correctly that perhaps small glimpses of the pre-mortal existence might be presented as small glimmers in some peoples minds on occasion. Or am I misreading this?

 

You are not misreading. We do believe in inspiration and promptings from the Holy Ghost to guide us in our lives. What other people may call "intuition" or a "gut feeling", we generally believe is a "glimmer" or inspiration from a heavenly source. We do not believe we are left alone here to sink or swim on our own merits. We have help from a loving Heavenly Father who wants us to succeed.

 

Bill

 

Hope that makes our beliefs a little more clear. :)

[meggie]

So, bacon, which causes the highest incidence of cholesterol, harms your body. You can have, but tea, which contains many antioxidants and good things for your body, you can't. Is that right? :confused:

 

I was mostly being facetious. Since we don't keep kosher, we are allowed to have bacon and other pig products. There is a line in the Word of Wisdom (the dietary guideline we follow) about eating meat sparingly. It's up to individuals on what that means.

 

Here's the entire section of what exactly it contains. It doesn't say anything explicitly about caffeine (and growing up my entire family had a Dr. Pepper addiction and we were faithful LDS). I think in general, we just try to avoid anything addictive: drugs, pornography, gambling, and caffeine.

[Spy Car]

I'll try this without one. :D

 

Yes, as a spirit before our earth life, we do have the knowledge of good and evil and of our Heavenly Father's plan. We lived in His presence and learned whatever it was we needed to learn to live our life here on earth. The choice to come to earth and gain a body, and thus the opportunity to progress is fully ours. And we chose it with full knowledge of what life on earth is like.

 

When we come to earth, we believe that knowledge is kept from us for a time so that we may have the opportunity to learn and grow and make choices in an environment where there is temptation and opposition.

 

We also believe that we will have help and guidance from our Heavenly Father through scripture, prayer and personal revelation from the Holy Ghost, as well as from church leaders and those around us.

 

We believe our time on earth helps us to develop those qualities (empathy, service, humility, love, etc.) that enable us to be more like the Savior.

 

If you live in a bubble of perfection with your parents always at your side, always telling you what to do and never allowing you the opportunity to make your own mistakes and grow from them...you are deprived of the ability to become your own person. And as we've all seen kids like that on earth...you know how that turns out. :lol:

 

Our Heavenly Father, being the perfect parent, allows us the opportunities that many mortal parents are afraid to take with their own children. Greatly oversimplifying it....He allows us to "grow-up". With all the pain, mistakes and difficulties that come with it. In the end, we are better people for it. Athough at times the journey may be painful, the end reward is worth it...a thousand times over.

 

When we are here on earth, we do have some knowledge, in that we generally recognize truth. We have the capacity to learn. We can "feel" or know things to be correct. We have a moral code that we might argue is somewhat "inbred". Most sin is generally repugnant to us. However, the choices we make here about how to live our lives belongs wholly to us.

 

When we return to our Heavenly Father's presence, our full knowledge is restored.

 

I probably missed something in your question, so feel free to ask again if I didn't address it to your satisfaction. :D

 

Thank you!

 

You have done an outstanding job answering my questions and expanding my (still woefully ignorant) understanding of LDS beliefs. I truly appreciate it!

 

Maybe one more question. Since you mentioned that leaving the pre-mortal (spirit) realm was a conscious choice—one where a spirit was fully aware what they would be facing—could one of those spirits simply choose not to go? Or is that not done?

 

Bill

[Amira]

Is there a link to the Word of Wisdom? So I'm guessing you cannot have sodas either, right? So by not following these guidelines, the Lord's Spirit definitely leaves the person? Does that mean they would go to hell? Is there a concept of mortal sin in the LDS church?

 

Sure, here you go: The Word of Wisdom

 

Caffeine is a gray area where it's up the individual whether they drink it or not. You can be a good Mormon and drink regular Coke while avoiding coffee.

 

Personally, I don't think the Spirit leaves a person because of a sip of coffee, but that's just me. I also in no way believe that the WoW has anything to do with anyone who isn't a Mormon. I know many, many Christians who are filled with the Spirit no matter how much tea they're drinking.

 

Yes, there certainly is mortal sin for Mormons. But getting into our concept of hell is a lot more than I can cover here, especially since it's bedtime in Kyrgyzstan.

[dangermom]

The Mormon view (or not?) of becoming gods and goddesses with planets is something my parents always brought up to completely discount Mormonism. So I am interested to understand if this really is taught anywhere? Where are Mormons coming up with this if it is not taught or talked about anywhere? (hoping I don't sound condescending, I really am interested to learn :) )

 

 

OK. I think I'm ready to say something about this. Amira is correct that we don't talk about it much, nor do we ever say "Someday I will have my own planet!" That is made up to make us sound even weirder than we already are, as if we needed help in that department. ;) It is not necessary to accept the doctrine of deification in order to be a good Mormon. That said, it is something that Joseph Smith and others have taught, and it is part of our doctrine that if we keep all of God's commandments and enter into a close relationship with Him, that we can be with Him in Heaven (as we say, the Celestial Kingdom) and perhaps, after a long time, also become like God.

 

This is perfectly sound Christian doctrine, albeit in LDS terms. St. Irenaeus, St. Clement, St. Justin Martyr, St. Athanasius, and St. Augustine all said things that sound pretty much exactly like what we teach. If you look in The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, the entry on deification (theosis) sounds pretty much exactly like what we teach.

 

 

I've been looking in a book I have called "Are Mormons Christian?" by Stephen E. Robinson for this material, though I also remember it from other sources. I have to run and pick up a kid now, but I'll return and try to type out the quotations if you like.

[DianeW88]

and I'm still wondering about the gods and goddesses and planets thing....if the afterlife is not detailed, what is it that motivates Mormons to live such moral lives? I'm not sure if that was answered yet...:confused:

 

We try to live the way the Savior has asked us to live. We believe God has given us commandments and he expects us to obey them. We believe the Lord when He says, "Be ye therefore perfect." We try to become more Christlike to the best of our ability.

 

We do not believe that we can gain salvation by good works. We believe that in order to return to the presence of our Heavenly Father that we must have "a broken heart and a contrite spirit" and accept the atonement of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice as the only way to return to our Heavenly Father.

 

We believe that keeping the Lord's commandments and living a moral life will lead to happiness for us. We believe that by trying to be more like the Savior, we will discover those attributes that help us to have a better life on earth as well as show obedience to our Father in Heaven by doing what He has asked us to do.

 

We believe that when Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as thyself", "Feed my sheep" and "If you love me, keep my commandments" that He meant it.

 

So that is how we try to pattern our lives (no matter how short we fall). His life is the ideal...and that is what we strive for.

[Maus]

So, bacon, which causes the highest incidence of cholesterol, harms your body. You can have, but tea, which contains many antioxidants and good things for your body, you can't. Is that right? :confused:

 

Don't take away all my potential vices!

 

Personally, I don't think the Word of Wisdom is meant to detail healthy eating in every single circumstance and it's not necessarily useful to look at it only that way. For me, it's not just about the health benefits. Although it would make my life a lot easier if I didn't have to refuse tea everywhere I go in Asia.

The Word of Wisdom also says to eat meat sparingly. it doesn't define sparingly. For my son, who has reactive hypoglycemia and needs to have a little protein with each snack or meal, †sparingly†will look different than it does to me, with my not stellar cholesterol.

 

It isn't an exact health code, and is more about obedience. I promised to follow it, so I am held to it.

[DianeW88]

Thank you!

 

You have done an outstanding job answering my questions and expanding my (still woefully ignorant) understanding of LDS beliefs. I truly appreciate it!

 

Maybe one more question. Since you mentioned that leaving the pre-mortal (spirit) realm was a conscious choice—one where a spirit was fully aware what they would be facing—could one of those spirits simply choose not to go? Or is that not done?

 

Bill

 

Yes, we believe a full third of Heavenly Father's children did not accept that plan and in fact refused to go. Your free will is always yours. Of those remaining...they all signed up for the whole deal. :D

[I.Dup.]

We try to live the way the Savior has asked us to live. We believe God has given us commandments and he expects us to obey them. We believe the Lord when He says, "Be ye therefore perfect." We try to become more Christlike to the best of our ability.

 

We do not believe that we can gain salvation by good works. We believe that in order to return to the presence of our Heavenly Father that we must have "a broken heart and a contrite spirit" and accept the atonement of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice as the only way to return to our Heavenly Father.

 

We believe that keeping the Lord's commandments and living a moral life will lead to happiness for us. We believe that by trying to be more like the Savior, we will discover those attributes that help us to have a better life on earth as well as show obedience to our Father in Heaven by doing what He has asked us to do.

 

We believe that when Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as thyself", "Feed my sheep" and "If you love me, keep my commandments" that He meant it.

 

So that is how we try to pattern our lives (no matter how short we fall). His life is the ideal...and that is what we strive for.

 

Well this sounds very proper and everything :D but what does an LDS mom tell her son when he's caught sneaking around or doing something he shouldn't? Where is the fear of hell or the promise of eternal reward? Those are the details I am curious about. What motivates your normal Morman in their day to day life to go the extra mile?

[Spy Car]

Yes, we believe a full third of Heavenly Father's children did not accept that plan and in fact refused to go. Your free will is always yours. Of those remaining...they all signed up for the whole deal. :D

 

Why do I get the feeling that those one-third were in trouble? :D

 

I gotta know!

 

Bill

[I.Dup.]

OK. I think I'm ready to say something about this. Amira is correct that we don't talk about it much, nor do we ever say "Someday I will have my own planet!" That is made up to make us sound even weirder than we already are, as if we needed help in that department. ;) It is not necessary to accept the doctrine of deification in order to be a good Mormon. That said, it is something that Joseph Smith and others have taught, and it is part of our doctrine that if we keep all of God's commandments and enter into a close relationship with Him, that we can be with Him in Heaven (as we say, the Celestial Kingdom) and perhaps, after a long time, also become like God.

 

This is perfectly sound Christian doctrine, albeit in LDS terms. St. Irenaeus, St. Clement, St. Justin Martyr, St. Athanasius, and St. Augustine all said things that sound pretty much exactly like what we teach. If you look in The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, the entry on deification (theosis) sounds pretty much exactly like what we teach.

 

 

I've been looking in a book I have called "Are Mormons Christian?" by Stephen E. Robinson for this material, though I also remember it from other sources. I have to run and pick up a kid now, but I'll return and try to type out the quotations if you like.

 

Thank you :001_smile:

[I.Dup.]

Why do I get the feeling that those one-third were in trouble? :D

 

I gotta know!

 

Bill

 

I believe these were the 1/3 that followed satan and became demons.

[Amira]

Well this sounds very proper and everything :D but what does an LDS mom tell her son when he's caught sneaking around or doing something he shouldn't? Where is the fear of hell or the promise of eternal reward? Those are the details I am curious about. What motivates your normal Morman in their day to day life to go the extra mile?

 

There are many things that motivate me:

 

• The hope of being with my husband eternally
  
• The hope of living with God again
  
• The daily comfort I get from living the gospel
  
• The prodding to look beyond myself
  
• The guidance of the Holy Spirit that I feel I get when I am trying to do what's right
  

 

And so many other things. There is significant promise of eternal reward. I can assure you that Mormons feel huge pressure to do what's right. Overwhelming, sometimes.

[I.Dup.]

I can assure you that Mormons feel huge pressure to do what's right. Overwhelming, sometimes.

 

I believe you. From what I have noticed, there is a big difference in Mormons vs. other Christian denominations. This has always intrigued me. I am wondering why that is, what secret or motivator they have that other Christians don't that cause them to be extra careful.

[Spy Car]

I believe these were the 1/3 that followed satan and became demons.

 

I had a sneaking feeling that was where this was going! :D

 

So just remaining with God in a pre-mortal type existence really isn't an option?

 

Do the ones who went with Satan have a collective name to describe them?

 

And do they have a physical-mortal existence too, or do they remain in a spirit-word, or other?

 

Bill

[Amira]

I believe you. From what I have noticed, there is a big difference in Mormons vs. other Christian denominations. This has always intrigued me. I am wondering why that is, what secret or motivator they have that other Christians don't that cause them to be extra careful.

 

This is an interesting question. Maybe it's because we believe the potential rewards are greater than a traditional Christian does? I'm a lot more interested in our idea of eternal progression where we continue learning and growing and becoming than in the traditional Christian view of heaven. The other option always seemed a little boring. We have the most potential to progress if we get things right while we're on the earth.

 

Or maybe we just have really motivational speakers every Sunday.

[meggie]

Here's one of our main scripture sections on the afterlife. I'm no theologian (obviously, considering my bacon joke). But maybe this is helpful? And maybe one of the theologians can help interpret it all for you

[DianeW88]

Well this sounds very proper and everything :D but what does an LDS mom tell her son when he's caught sneaking around or doing something he shouldn't? Where is the fear of hell or the promise of eternal reward? Those are the details I am curious about. What motivates your normal Morman in their day to day life to go the extra mile?

 

We don't live with that overwhelming fear of hell and ****ation. We truly believe in a loving Heavenly Father who wants us to return to Him and we'll help us get there. We believe in the healing power of the Atonement.

 

Of course my kids are punished when they misbehave. There are rules in our family and they need to be obeyed. But I don't ever threaten them by saying,

"If you do that, you're going to go to hell."

 

We are motivated to be good, because we know that's what God expects of us, and we want to please Him.

[AnaShoo]

Well this sounds very proper and everything :D but what does an LDS mom tell her son when he's caught sneaking around or doing something he shouldn't? Where is the fear of hell or the promise of eternal reward? Those are the details I am curious about. What motivates your normal Morman in their day to day life to go the extra mile?

 

 

I'm going to take a quick stab at this, but I apologize if it isn't what you were looking for! I've not personally dealt with this situation yet since my oldest is only 7, but I was raised by a formerly Catholic Mormon who attempted to use doctrine in various ways to keep us in line. It left a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't intend to approach it that way with our sons.

 

Personally, my motivations for wanting to be good are partly religious (I'd like to go to be able to dwell with God in the Celestial Kingdom, which also means my family will have the right to be together - actually, keeping families together may be the main motivator in LDS teachings, now that I think about it - only those who make it to the highest kingdom have that right), and partly just a desire to be a good person. If I catch my son sneaking out at night, I'm not going to lecture him about how God has taught this or that and he is in danger of -fill in the blank-. Instead, I'm going to approach it like there are rules in our family and he is expected to follow them or will lose things like driving privileges.

 

We are raising our children in our faith, but I know they have the right to choose whether or not they will live it when they leave. My goal is to teach them as best I can, then watch them do as they will. Sneaking out or blatantly disobeying other rules we set is a big deal for our family, but I don't know if I feel comfortable bringing religion into that. If my son decides to become a Catholic or a Muslim or an Atheist when he leaves home, we will still love him and call him our own.

 

Maybe I can feel this way because everything that comes after, from any religion's beliefs, feels like speculation to me. I love the LDS teachings on what comes after, but I have room to accept it could look very different than we commonly think of it.

[I.Dup.]

Maybe it's because we believe the potential rewards are greater than a traditional Christian? I'm a lot more interested in our idea of eternal progression where we continue learning and growing and becoming than in the traditional Christian view of heaven. We have the most potential to progress if we get things right while we're on the earth.

 

Is there a link that details this- the rewards, the importance of the time on earth, eternal progression?