LDS ladies, please comment - view of Adam and Eve

[I.Dup.]

Here's one of our main scripture sections on the afterlife. I'm no theologian (obviously, considering my bacon joke). But maybe this is helpful? And maybe one of the theologians can help interpret it all for you

 

Thank you, I'll check it out!

 

We don't live with that overwhelming fear of hell and ****ation. We truly believe in a loving Heavenly Father who wants us to return to Him and we'll help us get there. We believe in the healing power of the Atonement.

 

Of course my kids are punished when they misbehave. There are rules in our family and they need to be obeyed. But I don't ever threaten them by saying,

"If you do that, you're going to go to hell."

 

We are motivated to be good, because we know that's what God expects of us, and we want to please Him.

 

Thank you. It seems that even children and teenagers of Mormons are better behaved, maybe you all know some secret of parenting that the rest of us don't? I could be wrong though, and maybe I have just encountered the extra devout Mormons?

 

I'm going to take a quick stab at this, but I apologize if it isn't what you were looking for! I've not personally dealt with this situation yet since my oldest is only 7, but I was raised by a formerly Catholic Mormon who attempted to use doctrine in various ways to keep us in line. It left a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't intend to approach it that way with our sons.

 

Personally, my motivations for wanting to be good are partly religious (I'd like to go to be able to dwell with God in the Celestial Kingdom, which also means my family will have the right to be together - actually, keeping families together may be the main motivator in LDS teachings, now that I think about it - only those who make it to the highest kingdom have that right), and partly just a desire to be a good person. If I catch my son sneaking out at night, I'm not going to lecture him about how God has taught this or that and he is in danger of -fill in the blank-. Instead, I'm going to approach it like there are rules in our family and he is expected to follow them or will lose things like driving privileges.

 

We are raising our children in our faith, but I know they have the right to choose whether or not they will live it when they leave. My goal is to teach them as best I can, then watch them do as they will. Sneaking out or blatantly disobeying other rules we set is a big deal for our family, but I don't know if I feel comfortable bringing religion into that. If my son decides to become a Catholic or a Muslim or an Atheist when he leaves home, we will still love him and call him our own.

 

Maybe I can feel this way because everything that comes after, from any religion's beliefs, feels like speculation to me. I love the LDS teachings on what comes after, but I have room to accept it could look very different than we commonly think of it.

 

Thanks, it is interesting what you're saying about shying away from bringing religion into discipline interactions. Just makes me more curious, though...

[Amira]

Is there a link that details this- the rewards, the importance of the time on earth, eternal progression?

 

Yes, but I have to go to bed now, so if no one else has posted anything when I come back in the morning, I'll post a link or two or pm you. Meggie's link a few posts above might help too.

[I.Dup.]

Yes, but I have to go to bed now, so if no one else has posted anything when I come back in the morning, I'll post a link or two or pm you. Meggie's link a few posts above might help too.

 

Yes, that does look helpful. Thanks :)

[HSmomNY]

Well this sounds very proper and everything but what does an LDS mom tell her son when he's caught sneaking around or doing something he shouldn't? Where is the fear of hell or the promise of eternal reward? Those are the details I am curious about. What motivates your normal Morman in their day to day life to go the extra mile?

 

I tell my son " you know better ". Or "I think this is something you need to pray about."

When he was younger " go to your room and think about what you did".

 

As to what motivates me to go the extra mile, I believe that my Savior bled and died for me, so that I could be forgiven for my sins. I believe that his atonement was the single greatest act of love and service in all of time and space. He did this because He loves me, personally. When things get hard, and they do, I remember that love and it motivates me to keep moving forward.

[Spy Car]

You do make an excellent point about little children. We do not believe that children are held responsible for their choices until they reach the age of accountability....age 8. That is the age where they are baptized in our church and become accountable for sin.

 

As a little side-note, I've been having a number of serious father-son talks with my boy (who will be turning 8 in July) including one on Sunday that I capped with: "Son, you will be turning 8 soon and will be reaching "the age of reason."

 

To which he responds: "That's what you said when I turned six and seven."

 

But...but..this time I really mean it, says I. Maybe we need a little more structure? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

[I.Dup.]

As a little side-note, I've been having a number of serious father-son talks with my boy (who will be turning 8 in July) including one on Sunday that I capped with: "Son, you will be turning 8 soon and will be reaching "the age of reason."

 

To which he responds: "That's what you said when I turned six and seven."

 

But...but..this time I really mean it, says I. Maybe we need a little more structure? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

:lol:

[meggie]

Thank you. It seems that even children and teenagers of Mormons are better behaved, maybe you all know some secret of parenting that the rest of us don't? I could be wrong though, and maybe I have just encountered the extra devout Mormons?

 

 

There are many Mormon teenagers and young adults (I suppose even old adults too :D) who get into the whole sex, drugs, alcohol....thing. Many at my high school (in Colorado, not Utah) and many in my extended family (Mostly southern California). There are many good people in the Mormon faith, there are many who choose not to live according to the teachings. I don't know official statistics on it though.

[Spy Car]

I'd like to thank Dangermom, Dianne, Blueviolin, Amira, Xuzi, and Jcooperetc for taking the time to answer my questions (and I hope I didn't accidentally leave someone out).

 

I hope you ladies enjoy a great day!

 

Bill

[missmoe]

Since you believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos.

 

 

I always seem to happen upon these conversations late in the game, but did want to comment on this ?

 

We believe in eternal progression for all---that includes our Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. So all though I may progress and someday become like my Heavenly Father, I expect He is continuing to progress as well! I don't believe any part of the Godhead are limited in anyway.

[gardenmom5]

Maybe one more question. Since you mentioned that leaving the pre-mortal (spirit) realm was a conscious choice—one where a spirit was fully aware what they would be facing—could one of those spirits simply choose not to go? Or is that not done?

 

Bill

 

well, we believe leaving the premortal world and getting a physical body is required to progress spiritually. while theoretically a spirit who kept tehir "first estate" (we refer to the physical world as "their second estate") could refuse to make that leap to the mortal world, not doing so would halt their progression. I'm not a scientist (my dd is), so I can't give one off the top of my head, but liken it to a chemical reaction - it must proceed in a specific order or it won't work. same idea.

 

keep in mind - there is so much that we learn just by having the physical experience, those still in the spirit world are not physical. They can hear instruction of what it is like to have a physical body, but have little to no comprehension of what that really means. It really is understanding the difference between a written description, and actually "being there".

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Xuzi]

As to what motivates me to go the extra mile, I believe that my Savior bled and died for me, so that I could be forgiven for my sins. I believe that his atonement was the single greatest act of love and service in all of time and space. He did this because He loves me, personally. When things get hard, and they do, I remember that love and it motivates me to keep moving forward.

 

Yup. :iagree:

 

Also, attending the Temple gives me a nice boost when I'm feeling discouraged. A small taste of Heaven. :) (and even LDS teenagers have the opportunity to attend certain Temple ceremonies, although not all of the same ones the adults do, and I notice a change in my children's behavior for a few days after we take them to visit the Temple grounds).

[dangermom]

I had a sneaking feeling that was where this was going! :D

 

So just remaining with God in a pre-mortal type existence really isn't an option?

 

Do the ones who went with Satan have a collective name to describe them?

 

And do they have a physical-mortal existence too, or do they remain in a spirit-word, or other?

 

Bill

 

They didn't want to get bodies, so they don't get them; they stay as spirits. This limits them rather. I don't know of a collective name besides spirits or followers of Satan. We don't generally use the word 'demon' very much in the LDS Church.

 

I've never heard of a 'stay with God forever as a spirit' option. That would be like staying a baby forever. Heavenly Father is not the kind of parent who lets you live in the basement for the rest of your life. :D

[Melinda in VT]

What is it that motivates Mormons to live such moral lives, if the afterlife is not really emphasized?

 

Would you like the perspective of a former Mormon?

 

When you 100% believe, then I think you are largely motivated by a desire to live with your family forever in the afterlife and a belief that your life will be better if you follow the teachings of the church.

 

When you start to doubt, then there are other aspects of Mormon life that encourage you to squash disbelief and conform. For example, to attend the temple, you need a recommend. Which requires interviews with two ecclesiastical leaders who ask about your tithing payment, your Word of Wisdom conformance (tea, alcohol, coffee, etc.), and whether you believe in core Mormon doctrine.

 

Not having a temple recommend can keep you from attending the weddings of even the closest family members. Which means explaining to your family why you don't have one.

 

So, there are here-and-now consequences to not following the rules.

 

Again, I don't think this comes into play when your belief is strong, but when it starts to waiver, it can nudge you back in line pretty effectively.

 

Didn't work for me for long, but in other circumstances, it might have.

[MusicMama]

I had a sneaking feeling that was where this was going!

 

So just remaining with God in a pre-mortal type existence really isn't an option?

 

Do the ones who went with Satan have a collective name to describe them?

 

And do they have a physical-mortal existence too, or do they remain in a spirit-word, or other?

 

Bill

 

Bill,

 

I thought this would help answer your question:

"There are two kinds of beings in heaven who are called angels: those who are spirits and those who have bodies of flesh and bone. Angels who are spirits have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone, or they are spirits who have once had a mortal body and are awaiting resurrection. Angels who have bodies of flesh and bone have either been resurrected from the dead or translated.

There are many references in scripture to the work of angels. Sometimes angels speak with a voice of thunder as they deliver God’s messages (Mosiah 27:11–16). Righteous mortal men may also be called angels (JST, Gen. 19:15). Some angels serve around the throne of God in heaven (Alma 36:22).

The scriptures also speak of the devil’s angels. These are those spirits who followed Lucifer and were thrust out of God’s presence in the premortal life and cast down to the earth (Rev. 12:1–9; 2 Ne. 9:9, 16; D&C 29:36–37)."

 

This is from the Guide to The Scriptures entry on Angels, found here on lds.org.

 

Of course I would get here when everything has died down! Great job ladies, I have enjoyed reading your thoughful responses, I know it is not easy!

[Spy Car]

well, we believe leaving the premortal world and getting a physical body is required to progress spiritually. while theoretically a spirit who kept tehir "first estate" (we refer to the physical world as "their second estate") could refuse to make that leap to the mortal world, not doing so would halt their progression. I'm not a scientist (my dd is), so I can't give one off the top of my head, but liken it to a chemical reaction - it must proceed in a specific order or it won't work. same idea.

 

keep in mind - there is so much that we learn just by having the physical experience, those still in the spirit world are not physical. They can hear instruction of what it is like to have a physical body, but have little to no comprehension of what that really means. It really is understanding the difference between a written description, and actually "being there".

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

It makes sense. I just wondered if there was a choice analogous to "living in a parents basement" for those spirits who more inclined towards enjoying God's immediate presence and the comforts of that pre-mortal existence over making spiritual progress on earth. Like "slacker-spirits" (not to sound irreverent).

 

Bill

[dangermom]

Wow, so much good commentary here, I can't keep up! Thanks so much everyone.

 

 

Thank you, I'll check it out!

 

Thank you. It seems that even children and teenagers of Mormons are better behaved, maybe you all know some secret of parenting that the rest of us don't? I could be wrong though, and maybe I have just encountered the extra devout Mormons?

 

Thanks, it is interesting what you're saying about shying away from bringing religion into discipline interactions. Just makes me more curious, though...

 

Well, there are plenty of Mormon kids who rebel. I knew a few! On the whole I guess what you're looking for is the fact that we place a LOT of emphasis on family time, loving your family, etc. and constantly talk about ideals of family life. We also have a highly supportive structure for kids and especially for teens that we try to make sure teaches strong principles, encourages kids to study scripture and develop their own personal witness of Christ and the gospel, and includes a lot of service to others and fun.

 

 

 

The other day when I caught my 9yo doing something wrong, I snuggled up to her and quietly asked her if she felt good about doing that. She felt all yucky inside, right? Was that a good choice? Let's not do that again. Of course it's going to vary with each kid, but that's what works for her at this point. I haven't got a teenager yet!

 

I would certainly never tell her she's going to hell or try to make her afraid.

[gardenmom5]

I always seem to happen upon these conversations late in the game, but did want to comment on this ?

 

We believe in eternal progression for all---that includes our Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. So all though I may progress and someday become like my Heavenly Father, I expect He is continuing to progress as well! I don't believe any part of the Godhead are limited in anyway.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Two of the names of God (and Jesus Christ) are Infinite, and Eternal, because Heavenly Father IS Infinite and Eternal. Omniscient and omnipotent.

 

children growing up and becoming parents themselves take nothing away from their parent, but rather add to their parents.

[dangermom]

Hey, if anyone wants to answer my questions about other POVs on the Fall from the first page, I really do wonder about these things and I've never gotten anyone to answer them! Here they are for your convenience.

 

In the Garden of Eden, wouldn't someone have eaten the fruit sooner or later?

 

As far as I can tell, the usual view (at least how I've heard it here on WTM) is that the Fall was not how the plan was supposed to go, and the plan with a Savior to redeem us was put in place after Adam and Eve messed it up. But how can that be? How could God be thwarted like that? Why put that tree into Eden in the first place, if the whole purpose of the tree was to mess up the paradisiacal existence God had planned for all of humanity?

 

I guess just as you are puzzled by our beliefs, I am puzzled by yours. :001_smile:

[MusicMama]

What is it that motivates Mormons to live such moral lives, if the afterlife is not really emphasized?

 

I think the afterlife IS emphasized greatly, just in a different way. The Hell, or separation from God, aspect is hardly ever referred to. We do not get threatening, or scary sermons from the pulpit reminding us of what the ultimate consequences of intentional sin are. Members of the congregation from ages 12-112 are requested to speak and assigned topics. The topics for this month in our local congregation will include Prayer and Fasting, Father's Day, and Following our Savior. Each speaker takes the general topic and selects an area they would like to share more of.

 

Ok, so moving on.

 

We believe that by adhering completely to the tenets of our faith, having repented, been baptized, and continue in faith and obedience, we will have the opportunity to return home to our Father in Heaven and be united forever with our family as a unit. We believe the bonds of husband and wife, son and daughter are more than earthly, they have the potential to be eternal. We see heaven as a place where we will continue to grow and love our Heavenly Father, and be together with those we love. That combined is a very powerful incentive to be obedient, repentant and follow the Savior commands.

[Spy Car]

They didn't want to get bodies, so they don't get them; they stay as spirits. This limits them rather. I don't know of a collective name besides spirits or followers of Satan. We don't generally use the word 'demon' very much in the LDS Church.

 

I've never heard of a 'stay with God forever as a spirit' option. That would be like staying a baby forever. Heavenly Father is not the kind of parent who lets you live in the basement for the rest of your life. :D

 

Just to confirm, the one-third who stay as spirits are followers of Satan?

 

I've got a good slogan:

 

There are many mansions in my father's house...just no basements :D

 

Please forgive my attempts at humor.

 

Bill

[dangermom]

That combined is a very powerful incentive to be obedient, repentant and follow the Savior commands.

 

Yes, I think this is true.

[MusicMama]

It makes sense. I just wondered if there was a choice analogous to "living in a parents basement" for those spirits who more inclined towards enjoying God's immediate presence and the comforts of that pre-mortal existence over making spiritual progress on earth. Like "slacker-spirits" (not to sound irreverent).

 

Ah, yes, I like the basement analogy. :)

 

Let's just say that the ultimatum has been laid down. :001_smile: Step up, or ship out; and 1/3 chose to ship out. There is no coming home for them. The choice to leave God's presence was eternal. For those that chose to step up, they are all awaiting their mortal experience. It is there again, a choice will be made. Will you only follow God's commands when it is easy because you dwell in His presence? Or will you follow them when the road gets tough, as it does in everyone's life? What will your choice be, away from "mom and dad's" watchful eye?

[DianeW88]

Just to confirm, the one-third who stay as spirits are followers of Satan?

 

I've got a good slogan:

 

There are many mansions in my father's house...just no basements :D

 

Please forgive my attempts at humor.

 

Bill

 

:lol::lol: Mormons appreciate a good sense of humor....and I may use that quote in a talk or lesson some day, it's a great one! I'll give you full credit. :D

[Spy Car]

Ah, yes, I like the basement analogy. :)

 

Let's just say that the ultimatum has been laid down. :001_smile: Step up, or ship out; and 1/3 chose to ship out. There is no coming home for them. The choice to leave God's presence was eternal. For those that chose to step up, they are all awaiting their mortal experience. It is there again, a choice will be made. Will you only follow God's commands when it is easy because you dwell in His presence? Or will you follow them when the road gets tough, as it does in everyone's life? What will your choice be, away from "mom and dad's" watchful eye?

 

Does some of this get reproduced in a less grand scale when it comes to the expectation of a young person to participate in a Mission? Or am I taking too great a leap?

 

Bill

[I.Dup.]

I'd like to thank Dangermom, Dianne, Blueviolin, Amira, Xuzi, and Jcooperetc for taking the time to answer my questions (and I hope I didn't accidentally leave someone out).

 

I hope you ladies enjoy a great day!

 

Bill

 

:iagree: Thank you!

 

And thank you to the "former Mormon" who shared, I can't find your screenname as I am posting, but that helps as well.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Just to confirm, the one-third who stay as spirits are followers of Satan?

 

I've got a good slogan:

 

There are many mansions in my father's house...just no basements :D

 

Please forgive my attempts at humor.

 

Bill

 

:lol::lol::lol:

To answer your question, yes the 1/3 who followed Satan are basically 'stuck' and have lost the opportunity to progress further.

[meggie]

Does some of this get reproduced in a less grand scale when it comes to the expectation of a young person to participate in a Mission? Or am I taking too great a leap?

 

Bill

 

Not always. That depends on each set of parents. I'm sure there are some who do give such an ultimatum.

 

My younger brother did not serve a mission. He was still able to marry in the temple, receive the priesthood, and we still love him dearly.

 

Also, while I did laugh out loud about your basement joke, you have to understand that the followers of Satan in the premortal existence were also kicked out for rebelling against the Father. So back to the basement analogy, imagine the young adult not only wanting to stay in the basement forever, but also trying to take over his parents' household.

 

Maybe there are some spirits who don't want to come down and Heavenly Father is letting them wait until they're ready? Who knows. But they will need to come down eventually.

[gardenmom5]

The other day when I caught my 9yo doing something wrong, I snuggled up to her and quietly asked her if she felt good about doing that. She felt all yucky inside, right? Was that a good choice? Let's not do that again. Of course it's going to vary with each kid, but that's what works for her at this point. I haven't got a teenager yet!

 

I would certainly never tell her she's going to hell or try to make her afraid.

 

I swear my (very involved in our lives) grandmother worshipped a god of death, hell, fire, brimstone and destruction. (pretty sad really.) she used the "if you don't ___, you'll be ****ed". ALL. THE. TIME. we certainly never listened to her. My only-child-mother was so controlled, she wasn't allowed to make her own choices about anything. When my then 17yo mother expressed interest in attending a methodist church that made her feel good - my "different denomination"-grandmother trashed her for it. My mother had much in common with a rebellious teen until my grandmother died. Honestly, as I came to understand so many of the dynamics, I came to understand why people end up wanting nothing to do with religion. especially if they grew up with it being used as a whip. (my own religosity as a teen was DESPITE my grandmother's teachings and kept hidden until I felt strong enough to deal with her.)

 

We want our children to make good choices, so we teach them how and give them the room to do so. We believe in a Loving Heavenly Father who wants to help us to succeed in good things, (but still loves us even if we do the wrong thing. so we learn, grow and do better next time.)

[dangermom]

Just to confirm, the one-third who stay as spirits are followers of Satan?

 

Yepski. Here's the basics of how it went (AFAIK): God got everyone together and said look, you can't keep learning if you don't go away from me for a while. So, I'll make a place for you to go and get a body and learn, but you'll mess up a lot, so we need a Savior for this plan. And some of you won't come back, because you'll choose not to. At this point, Jesus (the firstborn of God's children) steps up and volunteers for this job.

 

Then Lucifer--also one of God's children--says I have a better idea! Put me in charge of the whole thing, and I won't let anyone choose to sin, ever. Then everyone will be safe, and no one will ever choose anything bad. But I want to be in charge. [Note here that this plan is actually unworkable.]

 

We figure that Lucifer's option sounded safer to some people, or something. Heavenly Father's plan is scary, after all, and involves messy stuff like making mistakes and suffering. So there was a disagreement, and anyone who preferred Lucifer's plan left Heaven with him, setting themselves in opposition to God and becoming Satan and his followers. The ones who chose to go with Heavenly Father's plan accepted the whole deal, including getting born.

 

Does that help? It's sorta quick-and-dirty.

 

I've got a good slogan:

 

There are many mansions in my father's house...just no basements :D

 

Please forgive my attempts at humor.

 

Bill

 

:D VERY nice, actually.

Edited June 12, 2012 by dangermom

[dangermom]

I swear my (very involved in our lives) grandmother worshipped a god of death, hell, fire, brimstone and destruction. (pretty sad really.) she used the "if you don't ___, you'll be ****ed". ALL. THE. TIME. we certainly never listened to her. My only-child-mother was so controlled, she wasn't allowed to make her own choices about anything. When my then 17yo mother expressed interest in attending a methodist church that made her feel good - my "different denomination"-grandmother trashed her for it. My mother had much in common with a rebellious teen until my grandmother died. Honestly, as I came to understand so many of the dynamics, I came to understand why people end up wanting nothing to do with religion. especially if they grew up with it being used as a whip. (my own religosity as a teen was DESPITE my grandmother's teachings and kept hidden until I felt strong enough to deal with her.)

That's so sad, and I do understand why some folks dislike religion when this is what they've been taught. That's just plain unrighteous dominion and very wrong.

 

We want our children to make good choices, so we teach them how and give them the room to do so. We believe in a Loving Heavenly Father who wants to help us to succeed in good things, (but still loves us even if we do the wrong thing. so we learn, grow and do better next time.)

 

Yes!

[gardenmom5]

:lol::lol::lol:

To answer your question, yes the 1/3 who followed Satan are basically 'stuck' and have lost the opportunity to progress further.

and are *really* mad about that! I also consider them to be phenominally stupid. seriously? fighting against God? how dumb can you be?

[Spy Car]

Not always. That depends on each set of parents. I'm sure there are some who do give such an ultimatum.

 

My younger brother did not serve a mission. He was still able to marry in the temple, receive the priesthood, and we still love him dearly.

 

I was not aware if not doing a mission was an impediment to priesthood, or not. Perhaps too many double-negatives in the last sentence, but I'm sure you get my drift.

 

Also, while I did laugh out loud about your basement joke, you have to understand that the followers of Satan in the premortal existence were also kicked out for rebelling against the Father. So back to the basement analogy, imagine the young adult not only wanting to stay in the basement forever, but also trying to take over his parents' household.

 

Yes. I take your point.

 

Maybe there are some spirits who don't want to come down and Heavenly Father is letting them wait until they're ready? Who knows. But they will need to come down eventually.

 

I did wonder if in LDS belief if those who were most ready were sent first, and so on, or if that was not the case at all?

 

Bill

[Forget-Me-Not]

We want our children to make good choices, so we teach them how and give them the room to do so. We believe in a Loving Heavenly Father who wants to help us to succeed in good things, (but still loves us even if we do the wrong thing. so we learn, grow and do better next time.)

 

:iagree:It's interesting to note, along these lines, that LDS believe that Satan presented an alternative plan--one that would involve forcing everyone to follow all the commandments and return to God. The overwhelming majority went with the plan presented by Christ--the one that would allow us to have agency (or the freedom choose). Thus agency and the freedom to make personal choices are celebrated and emphasized within the Mormon faith.

[dangermom]

 

I did wonder if in LDS belief if those who were most ready were sent first, and so on, or if that was not the case at all?

 

Bill

 

No, I shouldn't think so. People do get chosen for various points in time, and often given jobs to accomplish in life (as mentioned above, this is called fore-ordination and still requires a free choice while on earth; it's not the same as fate). But our knowledge about all that is very fuzzy and not terribly specific.

 

All I can really say is that we tend to believe that Heavenly Father has a unique plan for each of us, we try to follow that plan through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit, we don't have to follow that plan, and we probably mess it up all the time but God is very good at turning all things to good if we let Him.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I was not aware if not doing a mission was an impediment to priesthood, or not. Perhaps too many double-negatives in the last sentence, but I'm sure you get my drift.

 

Nope. Going or not going will not affect your membership in the Church whatsoever. You can still hold the Priesthood, qualify for a temple recommend, etc. That being said, there is a strong *cultural* pressure to serve.

 

I'd also like to point out that the Church makes an effort to allow anyone willing to serve, even if there are impediments such as illness or disability. We have some young men who continue to live at home and serve in their own wards or stakes because circumstances don't allow them to be away from home.

[meggie]

 

 

I did wonder if in LDS belief if those who were most ready were sent first, and so on, or if that was not the case at all?

 

Bill

 

Ummmm.....hmmmm....well, I've heard that since we're nearing the time of the Second Coming of Christ that a lot of the "choice spirits" I suppose you could say, have been reserved for now. If that's based anywhere in scripture or the words of the prophets or 100% pure speculation I have no idea. My brain is kind of mush and has been for the last 3 1/2 years. Maybe someone else will know. We do believe in fore-ordination (not predestination) where a lot of the righteous spirits from the premortal existence were given special missions in this life. Here's a link with official doctrine on that. It's important to note, that just because someone is foreordained, doesn't mean they have no agency (or choice) in the matter.

 

I hope I answered your previous questions about the missions and the basement. Like I said, my brain is mush. :001_smile:

[missmoe]

Does some of this get reproduced in a less grand scale when it comes to the expectation of a young person to participate in a Mission? Or am I taking too great a leap?

 

Bill

 

As a mother of an eighteen year old son--let me go there! :tongue_smilie:

 

Going on a mission has been an expectation for both of my sons their whole lives. It is a focus in our home. We have studied scriptures and taught the principles that will allow them to serve well on a mission.

 

And now the time in nearing for the oldest. He is not ready! Lets just say that he has had a hard time adjusting to adult life. ;) A missionary needs to be able to work hard all day every day putting others needs before their own needs. He is not ready to do that though he really desires to go and serve. So at this point, my son is work toward the privilege

of being able to serve a mission.

 

I am sure there are families that push their sons out the door making a mission a requirement in their family, but I don't think they are the norm.

[Spy Car]

Yepski. Here's the basics of how it went (AFAIK): God got everyone together and said look, you can't keep learning if you don't go away from me for a while. So, I'll make a place for you to go and get a body and learn, but you'll mess up a lot, so we need a Savior for this plan. And some of you won't come back, because you'll choose not to. At this point, Jesus (the firstborn of God's children) steps up and volunteers for this job.

 

Then Lucifer--also one of God's children--says I have a better idea! Put me in charge of the whole thing, and I won't let anyone choose to sin, ever. Then everyone will be safe, and no one will ever choose anything bad. But I want to be in charge. [Note here that this plan is actually unworkable.]

 

We figure that Lucifer's option sounded safer to some people, or something. Heavenly Father's plan is scary, after all, and involves messy stuff like making mistakes and suffering. So there was a disagreement, and anyone who preferred Lucifer's plan left Heaven with him, setting themselves in opposition to God and becoming Satan and his followers. The ones who chose to go with Heavenly Father's plan accepted the whole deal, including getting born.

 

Does that help? It's sorta quick-and-dirty.

 

It helps immensely!

 

As much as I might enjoy the somewhat more elaborate explanations of President Monson, I find quick and dirty works for me.

 

My only disappointment—and I hope no one takes great offense when I say this—is that you all don't have some great exotic name for the Angeles of Satan (like the "Armies of Nephulmi" or sumpthin ). I feel let down :D

 

Bill

[Xuzi]

It helps immensely!

 

As much as I might enjoy the somewhat more elaborate explanations of President Monson, I find quick and dirty works for me.

 

My only disappointment—and I hope no one takes great offense when I say this—is that you all don't have some great exotic name for the Angeles of Satan (like the "Armies of Nephulmi" or sumpthin ). I feel let down :D

 

Bill

 

How does Sons of Perdition sound?? (although I don't know if that name applies to those who followed Satan pre-mortality, but it *does* apply to those who willfully, and with full knowledge of the Truth, *reject* God and follow Satan.)

[Spy Car]

Here is an easy one (finally! :tongue_smilie:).

 

What is the difference between a ward and a stake?

 

Is the ward the individual neighborhood "church" and the stake a collection of local wards? Or something else?

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

How does Sons of Perdition sound?? (although I don't know if that name applies to those who followed Satan pre-mortality, but it *does* apply to those who willfully, and with full knowledge of the Truth, *reject* God and follow Satan.)

 

Sons of Perdition lacks that "New World" quality, don't you think?

 

Maybe I've set my exceptions too high :D

 

Bill

[Xuzi]

Here is an easy one (finally! :tongue_smilie:).

 

What is the difference between a ward and a stake?

 

Is the ward the individual neighborhood "church" and the stake a collection of local wards? Or something else?

 

Bill

 

Yup. :) My Stake consists of 8 wards and a branch in my immediate area. (a "branch" is kind of a mini-ward. There aren't enough persons to fully "staff" a regular ward, so it's run slightly differently. Branches are common in rural areas or areas where the church is very "new to the area" and membership is sparse. For example, most LDS members in India and Africa meet in a branch, as opposed to a ward)

[Spy Car]

Yup. :) My Stake consists of 8 wards and a branch in my immediate area. (a "branch" is kind of a mini-ward. There aren't enough persons to fully "staff" a regular ward, so it's run slightly differently. Branches are common in rural areas or areas where the church is very "new to the area" and membership is sparse. For example, most LDS members in India and Africa meet in a branch, as opposed to a ward)

 

And anyone can attend a ward service, including Mormons lacking a "recommend" and non-Mormons as well?

 

Bill

[Julie in Austin]

And anyone can attend a ward service, including Mormons lacking a "recommend" and non-Mormons as well?

 

Bill

 

Yes. Anyone is welcome to come. You can go to the meetinghouse locator at lds.org and find the one near you, and what time it meets.

[meggie]

I just finished reading Good Omens. Now that you've pointed out the missing name, I want something Agnes Nutter-ish for it.

 

"Ye Fiendes of Satane".....or not....hmmm...will have to think on it more.

[HSmomNY]

What is the difference between a ward and a stake?

 

Is the ward the individual neighborhood "church" and the stake a collection of local wards? Or something else?

Yup.

A ward is a local unit. A branch is a very small local unit.

A stake is a group of wards and branches in a geographic area.

The size of area depends on density of members, for example in Utah there mite be several stakes in one town and in New York there might be many counties in one stake and in other countries only a few stakes in the whole country.

Wards are presided over by a bishop,

Branches by a branch president,

Stakes by a stake president.

None of these positions are paid.

[missmoe]

And anyone can attend a ward service, including Mormons lacking a "recommend" and non-Mormons as well?

 

Bill

 

Yup! Anybody and everybody is welcome.

[gardenmom5]

Does some of this get reproduced in a less grand scale when it comes to the expectation of a young person to participate in a Mission? Or am I taking too great a leap?

 

Bill

 

Young men are encouraged to serve, but it is still a pretty high bar of standards of behavior before even leaving. Not all go, but they are still welcomed and still receive callings etc. It is also a measure of committment. Those who fully embrace the teachings will generally go because they want to. (some are excused/sent home due to medical concerns. I've a friend whose son was excused becasue of a medical problem. He has since married in the temple.). Young women are free to serve if they wish, but there is not the same expectation that they do so.

[meggie]

And anyone can attend a ward service, including Mormons lacking a "recommend" and non-Mormons as well?

 

Bill

 

Look! Here's another link!!!

[Forget-Me-Not]

And anyone can attend a ward service, including Mormons lacking a "recommend" and non-Mormons as well?

 

Bill

 

Absolutely. I think every building I've ever attended says "visitors welcome".

 

FTR, you only need a recommend to get into a temple. But if you have the opportunity to visit a temple 'open house' in your community, you won't need a recommend for that. They often open them up for public viewing after building/remodeling and before dedication/re-dedication.