watch out for political propaganda in children's books! (warning: touchy)

[Iskra]

I was hesitating whether to post about this or not, since I'm relatively new on here and have hardly ever posted, and I certainly don't mean to stir up trouble, but I decided to go ahead and post because parents should be warned to watch out for this, lest you become a victim to it.

 

So, I was going through the well-known 'living books lists" out there in preparation for next year's homeschooling and I run across a book called "Girl of Kosovo" on Penny Gardner's history book list, which is a very well liked and respected list on this forum, which lots of parents are using with their kids.

 

Since, I come from that part of the world, the Kosovo conflict is something that I am probably more familiar with than the average US parent, who probably vaguely remembers hearing something about it on the news, and would look forward to sharing this book with their kids and learning more about the war in Kosovo together as a family. Especially, if said parent is not aware of what a controversial topic this is, she could easily just take a lot that is said in this book as historical fact without checking. Apparently this book portrays the KLA (kosovo liberation army) as "freedom fighters" fighting for the rights of their oppressed brethren who are being "ethnically cleansed" by Serb military forces. So, in essence, in this book the KLA (a terrorist organization btw) are "the good guys".

Now, I am sure that it was not Penny Gardner's intention to take sides in a war she knows nothing about, or spread propaganda that has no basis in fact, she just wants to aide families in the education of their children. However, this incident does raise some very important homeschooling questions worth considering.

 

How are the books on all these famous book lists (that we all use) picked?

If a book is written well, engages the child's mind and emotions, is illustrated well etc is that enough of a criterion?

I would say if we are talking about purely fiction, than sure. That is enough.

But, we are using what we call "living books" to teach history, science etc. Shouldn't a book be filled with truth, not half-truths, lies and propaganda?

And how do you know whether it is truth or not, if it is a topic that you are not very familiar with?

Do you really sit down and study the topic thoroughly through a variety of trusted sources in great detail, before picking what "living books" your children will read on that topic?

Or do you just download one of this well- known and well-liked lists and just say "well if so many people like it, it must be all right" and just go with it, not really caring whether your kids are learning truth or not and think to yourself for example "After all, they will at least know that Kosovo exists after reading a book on Kosovo. Who cares if the details are wrong"?

 

Well, if you read this far, thank you. Again, please remember in your responses that I really don't want to pick a fight. I just want to know your opinions on how do we protect our children from being manipulated through the books we pick for them.

[ocelotmom]

Teach about bias. Encourage children to identify possible biases in things they read. Teach them to study more about both sides of the story if the bias seems exceptional. Teach them to look at the author's background - where is she getting her information? Does she have a stake in one side or the other? Have them look at reviews on Amazon (or elsewhere) - these often point out biases. Teach them that when you have a book you assign them for school, it doesn't mean that you agree with the message, political or otherwise.

 

They are going to run into bias, whether from assigned reading or on their own. Helping them learn to identify it is going to be more helpful than trying to avoid it.

 

Even though I generally consider pre-reading impractical, I do think that, if you know the book is about a subject you or your family is sensitive about, pre-reading is a good idea.

Edited June 8, 2012 by ocelotmom

[my2boysteacher]

This is why we tend to steer away from narratives and stick with primary resources whenever possible.

[Farrar]

This is why we tend to steer away from narratives and stick with primary resources whenever possible.

 

But it sounds like it might be a memoir? Memoirs are primary sources. Primary sources are FULL of bias. Part of the reason you read primary sources in high school is to learn to evaluate them in this way.

 

I don't know the book, the list, or the level it's intended for, so in that sense, I can't fully comment. However, I don't have a problem with secondary level students getting controversial information. I would be for it, actually.

[Iskra]

I think it was picture book, intended for elementary age children and my kids ages are 6, 4 and 1. I like the idea of teaching about bias, but my point was that if it is a subject that you are not familiar with, it is hard to know whether the information is biased or objective. So, while it is good to keep in the back of your mind the thought that anything you read could be biased, we are also learning just by reading and are affected by that bias, whether we want to be or not (and this is especially the case for a topic that we are not familiar with).

[KnitWit]

Thank you for sharing about this Iskra. I can imagine it would be like a Jewish person reading a work that was sympathetic to Hitler? I will admit that I am one that does not *really* know much about Kosovo. I appreciate your viewpoint.

[Catherine]

I'd venture that most parents have no clue about the biases of many books that they read to their kids, or give their kids to read. I don't. But I don't know of any better way of choosing books.

 

I try my best to choose sources that are known, and to have as much knowledge of my own so that when we discuss the books, I can point out some of the biases. One great example I just encountered is the Little House books, my own beloved copies that I read to tatters when I was young. Reading them now with my son, I notice the history of pioneers, of native Americans, and I attempt, at least, to point out both perspectives. It's the best we can do.

 

Can you suggest a children's book with a different perspective on Kosovo? Perhaps you can convince your local library to purchase it, or donate a copy. But yes, bias is a constant issue and something I try to pay attention to.

[Night Elf]

Or do you just download one of this well- known and well-liked lists and just say "well if so many people like it, it must be all right" and just go with it, not really caring whether your kids are learning truth or not and think to yourself for example "After all, they will at least know that Kosovo exists after reading a book on Kosovo. Who cares if the details are wrong"?

 

Well, I don't much like the negative way of viewing this way, but I guess I need to confess this is me. My kids have read hundreds and hundreds of books since I started reading to them as infants and I have never thought to research a book for it's validity or bias or anything. Were you already prereading and researching all books for your children before you came across the one on Kosovo? That really has never crossed my mind ever.

 

I guess it really would look like I'm taking a 'who cares' attitude but I genuinely believe it would be quite an undertaking to research every book I read. I'm not sure exactly how to respond that doesn't make me look like a bad person. Sorry!!

[KnitWit]

Really though, pretty much every single written thing has bias. Even *facts* aside from the date and place have the bias of the eyewitness who recorded the event. kwim?

 

I guess the point might be to make sure that *all* biases are covered?

 

I REALLY try to present all sides of an issue to my kids, even the sides I personally might not agree with. There is always that "I didn't walk in their shoes thing".

[kalanamak]

One book out of the thousands we will have read. Meh. It is a book, not cyanide.

 

Everything should be read with an enthusiast on one shoulder, and a doubter on the other.

[Spy Car]

One would have to note that the Serbian government of the time was actively involved in war-crimes and genocide in in Bosnia and was engaged in killing and human rights abuses in Kosovo.

 

We (the USA) bombed Serbia to stop its attacks on Kosovars. I have no doubt there are/were some hard-men KLA. It's a rough neighborhood.

 

Bill

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I wonder if your putting ethnic cleansing in quotes speaks to your bias. I'm sure the book in question shows a bias, but if it's written as a memoir/first-person account that seems reasonable to me. If you are worried that Americans will read that one book and forever be biased against Serbs then I understand your concern. It is always important to read from more than one source about anything.

 

I agree this is highly controversial, especially to those who live/lived in the region.

[usetoschool]

I understand that this particular book is just your jumping off point for a discussion about how to choose books and watch out for bias but I did want to mention that the book is 1) not a picture book but a chapter book for middle grades, and 2) not as biased or untruthful as you seem to think it is.

 

It is not great literature but is a basic story about how a young girl in a difficult situation tries to maintain her humanity and cope with her life. As far as I can tell, Alice Mead has no horse in this race and she did have the book reviewed by this man: Steven L. Burg is a professor and chair of the department of politics at Brandeis University. His most book, co-authored with Paul S. Shoup, The War in Bosnia-Herzegovina: Ethnic Conflict and International Intervention (M.E. Sharpe, 1999), was awarded the 2000 Ralph J. Bunche Prize of the American Political Science Association for "the best scholarly work in political science which explores the phenomenon of ethnic and cultural pluralism."

 

I think if you are Serbian you might not love this book as much as someone who is Albanian but it does show that both sides are human - the main characters best friend is Serbian and it explores the relationship between the two families.

 

And on this board I think you can probably find someone who has a personal connection to just about everything - we have some friends for whom this is very real and very much in line with what was written in the book. That is what prompted me to respond - more so than the ideas of how to detect bias.

 

Which leads to the general topic - how to figure out the bias in a book and counteract it or, if it isn't a personal issue, how to find both sides of the issue. Before my kids are old enough to do this on their own I spend time reading here, reading book reviews, reading authors biographies, checking encyclopedia entries, and searching the internet. We try to read several books on a subject as the kids get older, research news stories and scan through the internet for strong opinions on either side of an issue. I don't generally pre-read but as things come up we discuss how it fits with what we know, do a little research if it seems contrary to what we have already read, and sometimes have our opinion on the matter changed completely :)

 

For older kids we like Critical Thinking in US History and other books of that type to help us think critically and examine both sides.

 

I think the research, critical thinking, and discussion are some of my favorite parts of a classical education. And thank heavens for the internet! Our library is useless and I have no idea how we would research this stuff otherwise.

[Farrar]

I understand that this particular book is just your jumping off point for a discussion about how to choose books and watch out for bias but I did want to mention that the book is 1) not a picture book but a chapter book for middle grades, and 2) not as biased or untruthful as you seem to think it is.

 

So the OP is writing about the book as if she's read it, but she thought it was a picture book when it's actually a middle grades novel? That's a pretty big difference in format which implies the OP has never laid hands on the book.

[astrid]

So the OP is writing about the book as if she's read it, but she thought it was a picture book when it's actually a middle grades novel? That's a pretty big difference in format which implies the OP has never laid hands on the book.

 

I was just starting to post this very same point when I had to go let the dog out----- I came back and see that FW has beaten me to it.

 

So yeah--- what gives?

 

astrid

[LeslieAnneLevine]

Interesting...

I deleted a lot of what I'd written about the conflicts due to not having read the book. I didn't want to be insensitive to the OP who had read the book and felt upset by it.

I'm definitely interested to know now whether the OP has read it.

[sagira]

The best advice I read (somewhere) was is to make sure our children are widely read. Lots of books. Later on, lots of primary sources, articles, essays, research papers. Other viewpoints will pop up. They will learn to sort them out. I believe it's not a bad thing to be able to walk into one another's shoes sometimes. To read is to broaden understanding of one's self and humanity.

[stripe]

I think you raise an important point about educating ourselves first and not taking historical fiction as truth.

 

A question - What do you think about Zlata's Diary?

[Just Robyn]

The best advice I read (somewhere) was is to make sure our children are widely read. Lots of books. Later on, lots of primary sources, articles, essays, research papers. Other viewpoints will pop up. They will learn to sort them out. I believe it's not a bad thing to be able to walk into one another's shoes sometimes. To read is to broaden understanding of one's self and humanity.

 

This is what immediately came to my mind. My children are going to read lots of books with a bias. My goal is for them to read about the same topic from several sources so that they will (hopefully) hear the other side.

[mamakven]

You know, this is a fascinating point and an important discussion- since history is written by "people" there is no chance of objective truth when reading it. I grappled with this a few years ago when finding things in American History textbooks that I was not sure were legit, and the best I can come up with is to read a LOT. try to get differing viewpoints... but the truth is, at least people like me who HATED history as a kid, and are now learning, just plain don't KNOW a lot about history, INCLUDING Kosovo! its great to get this kind of perspective from someone who does! this reminds me that when I come across very opinionated history to post here and ask if anyone else has concerns about it or knows more about it!

[happymomofboys]

Teach about bias. Encourage children to identify possible biases in things they read. Teach them to study more about both sides of the story if the bias seems exceptional. Teach them to look at the author's background - where is she getting her information? Does she have a stake in one side or the other? Have them look at reviews on Amazon (or elsewhere) - these often point out biases. Teach them that when you have a book you assign them for school, it doesn't mean that you agree with the message, political or otherwise.

 

They are going to run into bias, whether from assigned reading or on their own. Helping them learn to identify it is going to be more helpful than trying to avoid it.

 

Even though I generally consider pre-reading impractical, I do think that, if you know the book is about a subject you or your family is sensitive about, pre-reading is a good idea.

 

:iagree: with everything above. I like to have my children read from many sources when we're studying a topic. It helps them to find discrepancies and then ask questions about why the authors have opposing views on the matter. It makes them better critical thinkers.

[El...]

I'd like to use that kind of thing to teach my kids to think while they read, instead of just believing it all because it is in print! At a certain age, of course.

 

Thinking about that reminds me of when my parents showed us Free Willy... as a study in propaganda! :lol: I was an adult when I found out everybody doesn't see that movie that way.

[kalanamak]

So the OP is writing about the book as if she's read it, but she thought it was a picture book when it's actually a middle grades novel? That's a pretty big difference in format which implies the OP has never laid hands on the book.

 

She says something along the lines of "Apparently it protrays the KLA as "freedom fighters"." This lead me to believe she was getting info second hand.

[Iskra]

I understand that this particular book is just your jumping off point for a discussion about how to choose books and watch out for bias but I did want to mention that the book is 1) not a picture book but a chapter book for middle grades, and 2) not as biased or untruthful as you seem to think it is.

 

It is not great literature but is a basic story about how a young girl in a difficult situation tries to maintain her humanity and cope with her life. As far as I can tell, Alice Mead has no horse in this race and she did have the book reviewed by this man: Steven L. Burg is a professor and chair of the department of politics at Brandeis University. His most book, co-authored with Paul S. Shoup, The War in Bosnia-Herzegovina: Ethnic Conflict and International Intervention (M.E. Sharpe, 1999), was awarded the 2000 Ralph J. Bunche Prize of the American Political Science Association for "the best scholarly work in political science which explores the phenomenon of ethnic and cultural pluralism."

 

I think if you are Serbian you might not love this book as much as someone who is Albanian but it does show that both sides are human - the main characters best friend is Serbian and it explores the relationship between the two families.

 

And on this board I think you can probably find someone who has a personal connection to just about everything - we have some friends for whom this is very real and very much in line with what was written in the book. That is what prompted me to respond - more so than the ideas of how to detect bias.

 

 

Wow, this thread has progressed while I was gone. Ok, first of all to clarify, I have NOT read the book, nor did I claim that I had read it. I said that I was going through a well-known living history book list and noticed this title and checked it out on amazon. I guess some people could have interpreted "checked it out" as having read it, but I don't have kindle. By checked out, I really just mean checked out. I read the description of the book and it left "a bad taste in my mouth". I did not have to read the book to notice the bias, and I will certainly not be spending my money on it. And no, even though obviously I have my own opinion, I don't think I was showing my bias by putting ethnic cleansing and freedom fighters in quotes. I was simply quoting from the description of the book on amazon, to show the book's author's bias. I suppose some people are of the opinion that "one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter", but to me murder of innocent people is an act of terror whether they be Albanian, Serbian or what have you.

 

To answer, yet another of your points, no I am not neither Serbian, nor Albanian. You don't really have to be either to know that the KLA is a terrorist organization. Even wikipedia will probably tell you that.

I'm also a bit amused by the notion that just because someone who is a college professor wrote a biased book that was recognized by the American Political science association and then reviewed and approved of a children's book containing the same bias, somehow makes that children's book less biased, or not biased at all.

 

For those of you interested in reading the other side of the story. Here are some links. Nebojsa Malic is from Bosnia and is aworld renown, well respected historian who specializes in the Balkan region. To warn you though, you will probably not like what he has to say about US, Britain and just other NATO countries in general, but you will find that everything he has to say to be completely backed up by fact and linked back to the original sources that he is quoting.

Here's just a couple of his articles (you could find probably thousands of them on the web, if you are interested in reading about this other side on this contraversial issue):

http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m061203.html

http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m103003.html

 

And while searching for his stuff, I run across these 2 gems, which I had actually never read before, by Philip Cunliffe:

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6388/

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6386/

 

If you want to respond to me about those articles, I think you should PM me, because otherwise this might turn into a political thread and the mods might delete it.

 

Ok... now please... can we get back to the topic at hand?.... and that is, how do we deal with bias on topics that we don't know are biased or in dispute, especially when it comes to selecting materials for our children?

[LeslieAnneLevine]

She says something along the lines of "Apparently it protrays the KLA as "freedom fighters"." This lead me to believe she was getting info second hand.

 

Yes, you're right. I read it too fast as I thought she was saying that apparently the KLA are the good guys according to the author, meaning that was the OP's conclusion after reading the book. It didn't occur to me that she would be posting a warning about a book she never read. :glare:

[Iskra]

I think you raise an important point about educating ourselves first and not taking historical fiction as truth.

 

A question - What do you think about Zlata's Diary?

 

I had not heard of Zlata's Diary, but I just looked it up on amazon and it looks very interesting. So, thanks! I think I'm going to read it:)

 

You know, I didn't intend for this to turn into a thread about Balkan history and politics. I don't mind that it did, but I'm actually not preoccupied with studying this topic, by any means. I was actually looking for ancient history and middle ages stuff, when I came across the Kosovo book. I just happen to know a lot on the topic, so it caught my eye, precisely because I was aware of the potential for misinterpretation of events there, and sure enough I was right, but I definitely have more important (to my family's immedaite needs) things to study and research at the moment than Balkan history.

[mommaduck]

Another option would be to find a book from the view of the other side and read both. My theory is that, in most wars or conflicts, there are at least three sides. Very few are purely "this side is good and that side is bad" (example exception would be Hitler, but even then, it's good to know why the German people found it so easy to up and follow this nutjob and how they bought into his propaganda).

[stripe]

It can easily be tied in to current events as trials are ongoing at the tribunal at the Hague. Ratko Mladić's trial opened last month, with him making mocking congratulatory gestures such as a thumbs up and applause at survivors and families of the dead, before making a cutting throat gesture at a mother whose son was killed. There's enough material without needing fiction.

[catz]

Another option would be to find a book from the view of the other side and read both. My theory is that, in most wars or conflicts, there are at least three sides. Very few are purely "this side is good and that side is bad" (example exception would be Hitler, but even then, it's good to know why the German people found it so easy to up and follow this nutjob and how they bought into his propaganda).

 

:iagree: This is why I will never just use ONE primary text for history for us. I think everything has a bias of some sort. The mid elementary american history book I just read to the kids rates 4 1/2 stars on Amazon but there are a good handful of reviewers that think it is pure trash. To one side of a war, there is always another side that also thinks it's in the right. It serves kids well to understand bias early on and realize the world isn't 2 simply divided sides.

 

I'm sorry you found a book that was troublesome to you.

[JennyD]

Ok, first of all to clarify, I have NOT read the book, nor did I claim that I had read it. . . I read the description of the book and it left "a bad taste in my mouth". I did not have to read the book to notice the bias,

 

how do we deal with bias on topics that we don't know are biased or in dispute, especially when it comes to selecting materials for our children?

 

For me, a starting point in selecting books, not to mention teaching critical thinking, is to disregard commentary by people who have not actually read said books.

[happymomofboys]

For me, a starting point in selecting books, not to mention teaching critical thinking, is to disregard commentary by people who have not actually read said books.

 

:iagree:

[catz]

For me, a starting point in selecting books, not to mention teaching critical thinking, is to disregard commentary by people who have not actually read said books.

 

:lol: I hate Amazon reviews that start with "I haven't read this book, but ...". Some of them you can tell by the review that they didn't actually read it.

[black_midori]

Ok... now please... can we get back to the topic at hand?.... and that is, how do we deal with bias on topics that we don't know are biased or in dispute, especially when it comes to selecting materials for our children?

 

I think that the point is that we should assume that pretty much anything written about pretty much any topic has bias - so we DO know that they are biased. Assume that someone has a dispute with something in pretty much everything spoken or written, and you probably won't be far wrong.

 

I suppose if you read a topic that you have concerns about causing your children particular harm due to the bias, you should dig deeper and pre-read the book (or at least commentaries about the book). Make sure your child has an open-door policy for discussing troubling material. Make sure to provide alternative view-points as you go along.

 

I generally will stop in the middle of a book that discusses something I am particularly against & educate my kids about the reasons I am against it (and the reasons the writer might be for it!). It can range from something silly (this is a rhyming book, and those 2 words don't truly rhyme when said correctly!) to something deep (can you see how hurtful what this character is saying to that one can be?). We all bring our own biases to the table to compete with the writers' (and eventually with our kids' as well!).