What would you do?

[MamaT]

I am also a youth leader. The rule of thumb I have used over the past few years is if it is something that could harm them or pertains to sexual relations (because of the risks of STDs), I give them an opportunity to tell their parents within a certain period of time and offer to be there with them if they need support. If they don't tell their parents within the time frame, I go to the mom. I know that sounds harsh to give them an ultimatum, but I also looked at it as how I would feel if a youth leader knew that information about my child and never told me. It really does suck to be in that situation. I will be praying for you.

 

:iagree: I would give her a time frame and offer to be with her, but I believe her mom needs to know.

[Hockey Mom]

There is NO WAY I would approach the mother with this information. First, the girl would never trust you again, and should something more serious come up (you mentioned the boy drinks), she will not confide in you. Second, the mother may feel embarrassed if you tell her. She may feel like you are privy to intimate parenting details that you have no business knowing. Third, it would break the trust other teens may have in you, rendering your role as ineffective.

 

I also think asking the girl to tell her mother is unrealistic. If she had the type of relationship where she could confide in her mother about this, she wouldn't have unloaded this secret on you. And really, what is the mother going to do about it now anyway? The horse is out of the barn, so to speak. If the girl is in public school, she has resources to pool there (wrt birth control).

 

It's a tough spot for you to be in. I really think you should just be there to lend an ear for these kids, unless it involves dangerous or criminal behavior. If it does involve dangerous or criminal behavior, you should kick it up to the person above you to handle. Your role, as youth leader, should be a healthy example, not Christian Cop.

[snickelfritz]

Have the adult leaders ever told the kids, one way or another, that they could talk to them confidentially?

 

Forget that mom is your friend. If this was a random youth, with parents that you didn't know AT.ALL. Would you be as conflicted about telling the parent? How much of your dilemma is because you are good friends with the mom?

 

Those are the two questions that keep coming to me. What a hard situation. And I think your leadership needs to come up with a policy. Because this type of thing will come up again.

[CountitallJoy]

Nakia, a big :grouphug: to you, sweet lady.

 

I have been "the mother" in the situation you describe. Honestly, when I first learned that my dd's youth leader already knew, I was a bit upset that she hadn't clued me in. After the initial shock wore off, however, I was simply grateful that my dd has another, "godly" (I *hate* that term for some reason, but can't think of another right now to convey what I want to say) woman whom she loves and trusts, and in whom she knows she can safely confide. I learned that her leader counseled her in the exact ways that I would, (and did.)

 

I think you are right not to break the confidence. And another :grouphug: to you, and all the awesome women and men who are willing to come alongside our young people to love, encourage, and guide them...even when it's hard.

[umsami]

If you tell the Mom, you lose all usefulness as a youth counselor. Nobody will ever trust you again.

 

Make sure she is on birth control....offer to drive her to Planned Parenthood or whatever.

 

Make sure she knows she can get pregnant even after one time of unprotected sex.

 

Make sure she knows about STDs.

 

Give her a safe code word she can use to call you if she's in trouble...like her BF is drunk.

 

Talk to her about dating violence.

 

Make sure she knows that saying yes once does not mean you always have to say yes.

 

Bite yout tongue with the Mom but pray for the daughter/Mom relationship.

 

Did you ask her if she enjoyed it? Often first sexual experiences like this are not enjoyable. Gives you an opportunity to talk about when the time is right...the person is right....etc.

 

The fact that she trusted you with this is a big compliment. Honor that.

Edited June 8, 2012 by umsami

[umsami]

As somebody who has worked with teen girls whose religion is very much opposed to premarital sex, one of my biggest concerns (after pregnancy) is that he will use that to pressure her to do things she wouldn't want to.

 

She needs to know you have her back as an adult....somebody knows.

 

She needs to know that she does not have to consent to swallowing or oral is she does not want to...and that condoms should be used because of STDs in the throat http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsforstds/a/oralsexsafesex.htm

 

Backdoor is very popular due to porno....she does not have to consent.

 

Etc.

 

These are not always easy to talk about, you can also make sure she has your email and that you will protect her confidentiality.

[Laurie4b]

It's too late for your situation, but this kind of thing is why it's nice for youth groups to have a policy that volunteers and parents and youth know. Then individual volunteers aren't put in a catch-22. If the policy is that things are confidential and the parent knows it and puts their kid in youth group, there is not an issue with the parents. If the kids know that confidentiality only goes so far and that in xyz cases, they'll be given help talking with their parents, but the parents will eventually know, then the kid doesn't feel their trust was betrayed. I think either policy can work. Kids often do want their parents to know deep down as long as it doesn't cause an explosion. I would advocate that your youth leaders do make a clear policy on this so that everyone is clear about it and no one else gets stuck.

 

Just reality wise: the fact that she has told a number of youth means it is highly probable that it gets back to her mom. Another parent may overhear talk and another parent is not bound by any conflicts about confidentiality. They may simply ask themselves, "Would I want to know?" You may already have explained this to the girl, but if not, I would. It is no longer a choice between mom not knowing and mom knowing, but of how mom finds out: Would mom react better if Nakia and I talk to her, or if she gets a phone call from another parent and finds out that she is the last to know. What would I feel best about? (and life lesson: Choose very, very carefully whom you talk with about things you don't want everyone to know. )

Edited June 8, 2012 by Laurie4b

[ktgrok]

Don't tell. If you do, no other girl will ever confide in your, and a good part of your strength as a leader will be lost. She came to you in a pastoral sense, and there should be confidentiality with that. I'm sure she assumed there was.

[Slipper]

It's too late for your situation, but this kind of thing is why it's nice for youth groups to have a policy that volunteers and parents and youth know. Then individual volunteers aren't put in a catch-22. If the policy is that things are confidential and the parent knows it and puts their kid in youth group, there is not an issue with the parents. If the kids know that confidentiality only goes so far and that in xyz cases, they'll be given help talking with their parents, but the parents will eventually know, then the kid doesn't feel their trust was betrayed. I think either policy can work. Kids often do want their parents to know deep down as long as it doesn't cause an explosion. I would advocate that your youth leaders do make a clear policy on this so that everyone is clear about it and no one else gets stuck.

 

I agree with the above (especially bolded). I also wanted to mention that while I would want to know, if a friend of mine had provided advice to my child...I would originally be mad/hurt but would also be grateful that my daughter went to someone sensible for advice. I've never minded when my kids confided things to their teachers or guidance counselors because I'm secure enough in my position as their mother to know that nobody will ever take my place. I've always encouraged my children to come talk to me but also told them that if they feel they cannot talk to me, to please find a trusted adult (teacher/guidance counselor/family member/church adult). In my opinion, it's more important that my child receive good and sensible advice rather than my need to know.

[BrookValley.]

I haven't read all the responses, so I don't know if there have been any updates...but I would absolutely not go to the mother/parents. I believe it would do more harm than good. Yes, her mother needs to know, but she's 16. She's the one who needs to go to her mother with this. I think you've done all the right things.

 

I think the only thing that would sway my mind in an instance like this would be if there was strong suspicion (or admittance) of rape and/or abuse. That would be a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Hope44]

You tell her mother. Here is why. This young girl belongs to her parents...not to her boyfriend, or even to herself. She belongs to them.

 

You know this is the right thing to do. Further, they should confront the young man and allow them the opportunity to continue the relationship under far more stringent rules. He won't stick around, though. This is also why you tell them - to prevent this girl from getting more and more damaged. Until she is out of this relationship, she won't recognize the danger she is in.

 

You realize, too, that depending upon the state you live in, there may be a legal problem for you if you do not step in. In many states, a minor that young can not have intimate relations with a young man of more than two years older than her. If that does happen, it can be labeled "statutory" and if you knew about it and did nothing, you could be in jeopardy. I don't know if you stated the age of the young man.

 

Believe me, the truth will come out. Either she will get pregnant (and then her parents WILL find out you knew what was going on), they will break up and he will spread the gossip, or she will tell her parents (AND she will tell them she talked to you about it already). Kids snap after a period of time and can't keep that bottled up.

 

I hope I don't sound harsh.

[oasis]

To address a few things that have been brought up...she and the boy did not use protection. I offered, pleaded, recommended, etc that she go for testing and counseling at the health department and even offered to take her. She declined.

 

If she's declining to get tested for STDs, I don't think she must realize the absolute seriousness of the risk she is taking by not using protection.

 

She does not sound mature enough to be making this type of decision on her own.

 

What if she contracts HIV? She'd wish every day for the rest of her life that she'd told her mom before it turned into something that could not be undone.

 

In my view, she's playing Russian roulette. I would offer to go with her to tell the mom. Someone needs to help this girl be more responsible; she's not just taking a chance of becoming pregnant - she's gambling with her life.

 

(I have a friend who contracted HIV. No matter how much a person thinks it can't happen to him/her, it happens. Every day, it happens.)

[Hope44]

And one other thing. Do not let fear of "never being trusted again" talk you out of this. Go with the girl. Other girls WILL come to you because this is the most selfless thing you can do for her. They will actually feel MORE protected knowing someone cares that much about them. Praying for you.

[Mom0012]

My best friend is my dd's youth group leader. I know she will tell me if she sees risky behaviour or something else we are watching for (not naming specifics). I know, because she TOLD me she would, and she TOLD dd she would. Everything is clear and in the open. I know she WON'T tell me spiritual things that dd shares with her.

 

If you have discussed confidentiality with your teens in youth group, then you can't break it. Perhaps you should set aside some time in the group meeting and discuss what you will and won't share, just to be clear, because I'm sure it'll come up again.

 

 

 

:iagree: This doesn't help you now, but could save you some grief in the future.

 

As a teen, if I had shared this type information with an adult, I would have been shocked if they did not tell my parents. It seems as though there is a different expectation here, and I would want to change that to avoid problems in the future.

 

As a parent, I would be upset if an adult in a position of authority did not share information they had about my minor child that could cause them harm. And I don't think premarital sex is the end of the world, but in my mind, not using protection could be.

 

Lisa

[FaithManor]

I think Nakia may be double whammied on the confidentiality issue.

 

While not employed by the church as a nurse, she is still employed elsewhere as a nurse and the girl has shared what is considered medical information that is protected by HIPPA. It's a gray area. Nakia might get a way with telling the mom, but if her employer were every made aware of it, say the girl came to the hospital for treatment and didn't want Nakia as her nurse because she violated the confidence, it wouldn't look good to her employer. In a big urban hospital, it might not ever be an issue, but my aunt did this very thing with a teen in this area - aunt was a nurse and worked with teens, got concerned about STD's and pregnancy and called a mom. Though the confidence was not given in relation to her actual job duties, in this small community it didn't take long for word to get around and the docor that employed her decided she wasn't trust worthy. End of job!

 

Many people in a community will look at a medical professional as someone they can confide in any time, any place, any where because of that confidentiality thing and a young lady who has had health or s*x ed through the public school will know this. Therefore, I really don't think Nakia can tell the mom.

 

Now, she's also a mandatory reporter so even though the girl is 16, some states still have a statutory law for minors and legal adults. If so and the boy is 18 or over, she may be required by law to report. At that point, she isn't violating confidentiality. However, her report has to go to law enforcement and not to the mother. Poor mom will find out from the police or a social worker if they choose to pursue the case.

 

Nakia, :grouphug::grouphug: you are in a sucky position and all I can say is thanks for being there for a teen at risk and watching over her in whatever way you can. Many, many teens do not have an adult in their life that truly cares!

 

Faith

[Hope44]

The above is why she needs to go WITH the girl to talk to her mom. She violates NOTHING that way.

[mereminerals]

And one other thing. Do not let fear of "never being trusted again" talk you out of this. Go with the girl. Other girls WILL come to you because this is the most selfless thing you can do for her. They will actually feel MORE protected knowing someone cares that much about them. Praying for you.

:iagree:

 

I have had several conversations where girls knew they either had to tell their parents or I was going to if they didn't within a certain period of time. Once was a friend's daughter. I have never had girls not come to me because of this policy. I am transparent with them and they know I love them.

[AuntieM]

Hey Nakia, I know it's not the same situation, but laundrycrisis gave a great reply in another thread (jihat's teens & promiscuity, p2).

 

Aside from the tell/don't tell issue, it might be beneficial to have a heart to heart with her along laundrycrisis' suggestion, ie, what kind of person do you want to be and how do your current choices reflect that?

 

Also, since my first reply, I am thinking about the young man involved. I would assume there's a lot of pressure on her from that direction. I would be on the lookout for signs of manipulation or abuse.

[Nakia]

Sorry if it seems like I deserted my thread, lol. We went camping for the weekend. :001_smile:

 

Warning: LONG! lol

 

Okay...let me address some more questions that have been brought up.

 

I do not believe Amy belongs strictly to her parents. I believe she belongs to God, and I believe my first obligation is to help her repair the damage that has been done to her spiritual life. I also want her to keep herself physically safe.

 

She is 16; he is 18. There is neither sexual abuse nor anyway illegal going on.

 

I am a mandatory reporter, but there is nothing in this situation that requires reporting.

 

I do not believe she has anything to fear such as physical abuse or other harsh discipline from her parents if they find out. I know I can't be 100% sure, but I've known this family for years, and her dad is our children's pastor. This is a great family.

 

I am not bound by laws of confidentiality (such as our pastor is), but, as a youth leader, I do have an obligation to share anything like this with our youth pastor. The kids and parents know this, and they know that anything they share with a leader that puts them or another person at risk will be relayed to their parents and/or the proper authorities. The information that Amy shared with me is not something that is automatically relayed to parents. If she continues to have sex, doesn't protect herself and/or starts "sleeping around" then yes, her parents would be made aware because she would be putting herself at risk. We do have a policy. BUT if we feel like it's something outside those guidelines and that the parents need to know anyway, then we can still tell them (hope that makes sense). These things are evaluated on a case by case basis.

 

I agree that it is very important that these kids feel safe coming to us (their leaders) with these types of things so that someone can give them godly counsel and help them put themselves back together, so to speak.

 

Someone asked if I would feel any need/pull to let mom know if I weren't such good friends with her, and I can honestly say that no, I wouldn't. I'm really glad you (sorry I can't remember who it was) asked because that has made things a lot clearer about what I need to do.

 

I am not Baptist or Catholic. I go to a non-denominational church. We do not have any policies for or against birth control. It is regarded as a personal choice, as I believe it should be. Recommending she used BC does not mean I am encouraging or condoning premarital sex. I would do the same for my daughters.

 

There would be no HIPPA violation if I did tell her parents. She did not share medical information.

 

 

And now for an update...

 

Amy texted me this morning to ask me how she can tell her BF that she doesn't want to have sex anymore. I told her she has to be honest with him, AND she has to make sure she does not put herself in any situation where she is alone with him and might be tempted to have sex again. She admitted to me that she doesn't want to say no. I told her that she must use protection if she has sex again, but she said she doesn't want to "look like a slut."

 

Amy also told me her mom asked her last night if she was having sex and if she (mom) should put her on the pill. Perhaps her mom does have an idea (or her mom instinct is kicking in). Amy lied. :( That irritates me. I let her know flat out that I will not lie to her mom if she asks me. I don't think she will, but it's not impossible. She said she understands and doesn't want me to lie. I wonder if she does want her mom to know. It might be a relief to her. I think her parents would be stop all contact with the BF if they knew. But maybe not. Who knows...

 

 

So my plan is to keep gently encouraging her to talk to her mom. I will offer to go with her. I will keep loving on her and being a listening ear. Since Amy is so open with me, I can watch for signs of continued sexual contact with him and especially unprotected. I don't know the boy, but I will watch for signs that he is pressuring her. She needs an adult (besides her parents) who will do these things for her.

 

Please pray for her. Thank you.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Nakia

[SunnyDays]

Nakia, just a hug for you! :grouphug: You're between a rock and a hard place, but I'm so glad you're active in this girl's life and offering your support and advice. It does sound to me like she might be relieved for mom to know, but it would irritate me as well that Amy lied to mom. One thing I've learned the hard way over the years is that lying *never* helps a situation and that in the end, the truth comes to light much more often than not. I hope she's able to confide in her mom soon, and you're wonderful for trying to help her do that.

[AuntieM]

Wow, I think you are doing a wonderful job handling this difficult situation.

 

I was driving yesterday with the radio on and heard part of a program that made me think of you. It was Randy Carlson's Intentional Living. You may be able to get the podcast for June 9, 2012. I didn't hear the show in its entirety, but the part I heard spoke directly to your young friend's circumstances. If you can listen to it, I hope you would find it helpful.

 

Stay the course! This young lady is blessed to have you in her life!

[SKL]

Since it sounds like her mom is willing to "put her on the pill," I'd renew my encouragement to the girl to tell her mom, and offer to be with her when she tells (as has been suggested above). My thought is that "Amy" was just not ready to tell at the moment her mom asked her - presumably unexpectedly. With a little time to think about it, she may change her mind. A little encouragement in that direction might be very helpful. Perhaps you could help her come up with a good way to approach the subject when she's ready.

 

The whole "I don't want to use protection because I'll look like a slut" is too scary. I hope this gets resolved very soon.

[Nakia]

Wow, I think you are doing a wonderful job handling this difficult situation.

 

I was driving yesterday with the radio on and heard part of a program that made me think of you. It was Randy Carlson's Intentional Living. You may be able to get the podcast for June 9, 2012. I didn't hear the show in its entirety, but the part I heard spoke directly to your young friend's circumstances. If you can listen to it, I hope you would find it helpful.

 

Stay the course! This young lady is blessed to have you in her life!

 

Nakia, just a hug for you! :grouphug: You're between a rock and a hard place, but I'm so glad you're active in this girl's life and offering your support and advice. It does sound to me like she might be relieved for mom to know, but it would irritate me as well that Amy lied to mom. One thing I've learned the hard way over the years is that lying *never* helps a situation and that in the end, the truth comes to light much more often than not. I hope she's able to confide in her mom soon, and you're wonderful for trying to help her do that.

 

Thank you both!!!

 

Since it sounds like her mom is willing to "put her on the pill," I'd renew my encouragement to the girl to tell her mom, and offer to be with her when she tells (as has been suggested above). My thought is that "Amy" was just not ready to tell at the moment her mom asked her - presumably unexpectedly. With a little time to think about it, she may change her mind. A little encouragement in that direction might be very helpful. Perhaps you could help her come up with a good way to approach the subject when she's ready.

 

The whole "I don't want to use protection because I'll look like a slut" is too scary. I hope this gets resolved very soon.

 

I know! What I really wanted to say was, "Well how are you going to feel going to get your STD antibiotics filled?" But of course, I didn't. I hope to see her Wednesday face to face so we can chat. When she's with this boyfriend, she tends to skip youth on Wednesdays, but hopefully this week, I can bribe her with Starbucks.

[Nakia]

Just a quick update for those of you whom have offered advice and prayers and have pm'ed me with concern:

 

Amy told her mom and dad. Her dad was especially upset with me because I didn't tell them, but mom "talked him down." They understand Amy needed to talk to an adult, and they are happy it was me. Mom took the news well, but is sad, of course. She (Mom) called me today, and we talked for about an hour. She needed someone to listen, and I was happy to be there for her. She wanted advice, but as the mother of younger girls, I didn't have much to offer. I do believe the Lord gave me some wise words to say though. We cried together. I hurt for her. Mom also told me about some other things Amy is doing that could be far more dangerous than a one time sexual encounter. Please keep praying for the whole family. The parents need wisdom in how to proceed, and frankly Amy needs to stop a lot of crazy things she is doing. I hope that Amy will still feel like she can come to me. Unfortunately, I don't know how that will go.

 

That's really all I can share, but I didn't want to leave you all hanging. Thanks for your help!

[SKL]

Thank goodness some walls are coming down. Hopefully honest, loving communication will bear fruit.

[Starr]

Now I see your latest update. Sorry I didn't read all the way through before I pm's you. I'll keep her in my prayers. You are a wonderful blessing to these kids.

[SunnyDays]

So glad that things are out in the open. I think you handled everything admirably. Whatever is going on in Amy's life, I hope she is able to heal from it all. I pray that she'll continue to lean on her parents, on you, and most of all on God who forgives ALL if only asked. :grouphug:

[Joanne]

You handled this well.

 

And I am going to try my best to not let my feelings on Christian culture totally inform my response.

 

I have 3 teens and I've taught teens for the last 2 years. I believe that teens need access to reasonable, kind, stable non parent adults. I believe that access should be protected strongly. Even and especially when the teen seems to be behaving with immaturity.

 

I know that the OP knows this, but *nothing* in this story rises to the level of "mandatory reporting." Nope, not even STD exposure.

 

My opinions on premarital sex, teen sex, and conservative culture aside - 16 year olds having sex is statistically common. As adults in the position to model and advise them, the best we can do is offer the least judgmental, most "open", developmentally congruent support we can. 16 year olds have been having sex since there were 16 year olds (however you think humans developed).

 

As leaders to teens, we can help them make good choices with their time and bodies, while responding to them with developmentally informed answers. And when they don't make good choices, we can treat them with dignity and respect because that's when they need us most.

 

Finally, I think it's wise to avoid the mentality that fuels the drama around "sexual sin" - it is counter productive and likely to create just the situations that such people want to avoid.

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

I am also a youth leader. The rule of thumb I have used over the past few years is if it is something that could harm them or pertains to sexual relations (because of the risks of STDs), I give them an opportunity to tell their parents within a certain period of time and offer to be there with them if they need support. If they don't tell their parents within the time frame, I go to the mom. I know that sounds harsh to give them an ultimatum, but I also looked at it as how I would feel if a youth leader knew that information about my child and never told me. It really does suck to be in that situation. I will be praying for you.

 

This protocol sounds very wise to me, particularly because you are a youth leader in a faith-based program.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Cindy in the NH Woods

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

nm ;)

Edited June 12, 2012 by Cindy in the NH Woods

[Tap]

Just a quick update for those of you whom have offered advice and prayers and have pm'ed me with concern:

 

Amy told her mom and dad. Her dad was especially upset with me because I didn't tell them, but mom "talked him down." They understand Amy needed to talk to an adult, and they are happy it was me. Mom took the news well, but is sad, of course. She (Mom) called me today, and we talked for about an hour. She needed someone to listen, and I was happy to be there for her. She wanted advice, but as the mother of younger girls, I didn't have much to offer. I do believe the Lord gave me some wise words to say though. We cried together. I hurt for her. Mom also told me about some other things Amy is doing that could be far more dangerous than a one time sexual encounter. Please keep praying for the whole family. The parents need wisdom in how to proceed, and frankly Amy needs to stop a lot of crazy things she is doing. I hope that Amy will still feel like she can come to me. Unfortunately, I don't know how that will go.

 

 

That's really all I can share, but I didn't want to leave you all hanging. Thanks for your help!

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I am glad that you had a good ending!