So what's wrong with Sing. 1A/1B?

[Spy Car]

Not to mention all the things we know we know and we're saying we don't know even though we really do know because we know you don't know anything...

 

Sorry. Rumsfeld makes me fussy. :leaving:

 

LOL :lol:

 

Bill

[icul8rg8r]

Like the original poster, my daughter loves, Loves, LoVeS, LOVES workbooks and she had no problems with 1A/1B and ones we've used since then...

[Dinsfamily]

I don't plan on leaving SM. :) Because of our limited budget, I've been acquiring the books slowly over many years (I've known I wanted to hs my children for about 10 years, even though I've only been married for 5 and my oldest is only 3). I own all the textbooks, IP, and CW through 6B. I'm working on acquiring Miquon books and SM workbooks now.

 

I guess part of me rebels at the HIGs because I was a professional tutor until DD was about 6 months old. I get that tutoring algebra, geometry, and calculus is very different from teaching 1st grade math, but I suppose my background gives me lots of confidence in teaching my children math. Why should I spend that extra money when I could probably do fine on my own?

 

I'm not opposed to buying them if I need them, but I just have a hard time believing I will need them...

 

But, no, I have no plans to leave SM if it's not working at first. We've invested enough money in it that I'm determined to make it work - even if that means buying the HIGs. ;)

 

Welcome to the hive! I'm a math tutor too (PreAlgebra-Calculus+). Teaching elementary math has been fun and different. :D I've been known to have my students counsel my ds on the importance of writing down his work...:lol:

[Dmmetler]

I have also been puzzled whenever I read on this forum that SM 1A, 1B was bad but it gets better later.

 

We use the local version of SM (2007 syllabus) and I find absolutely no difference in the format/teaching/questions of Yr 1 v/s later years. Whenever I read the above opinion, I always assumed something was different about the US version of SM. Glad to know not everyone feels like that. :)

 

 

The only problem we had was that we did it after DD7 had finished K-where her teacher had been giving her 2nd grade Saxon Math worksheets to keep her busy, so she whipped through them very quickly. I do think that some parents may get frustrated with the "making tens" and number bonds focus, because it's not the way they learned.

 

I did move to the Singapore version and syllabus, but that's because I accidently got a lot of the books on Ebay, and DD7 fell in love with them over the Standards edition. I think she likes that they're more "Singapory" and exotic :).

[Dealea86]

Welcome to the hive! I'm a math tutor too (PreAlgebra-Calculus+). Teaching elementary math has been fun and different. :D I've been known to have my students counsel my ds on the importance of writing down his work...:lol:

 

Thank you. :) I've been reading threads for ages... just finally decided I couldn't keep my thoughts to myself anymore. :D

[Spy Car]

I don't plan on leaving SM. :) Because of our limited budget, I've been acquiring the books slowly over many years (I've known I wanted to hs my children for about 10 years, even though I've only been married for 5 and my oldest is only 3). I own all the textbooks, IP, and CW through 6B. I'm working on acquiring Miquon books and SM workbooks now.

 

I guess part of me rebels at the HIGs because I was a professional tutor until DD was about 6 months old. I get that tutoring algebra, geometry, and calculus is very different from teaching 1st grade math, but I suppose my background gives me lots of confidence in teaching my children math. Why should I spend that extra money when I could probably do fine on my own?

 

I'm not opposed to buying them if I need them, but I just have a hard time believing I will need them...

 

But, no, I have no plans to leave SM if it's not working at first. We've invested enough money in it that I'm determined to make it work - even if that means buying the HIGs. ;)

 

One doesn't "have to" use the HIGs. People who are math intuitives and understand the Singapore Math Model, and can translate lessons into child friendly games and activities, and remember to work on mental math skills, and spend time and energy to round out the program can do it without the HIGs. But it is work, and not everyone is up to it. The HIGs distill a great deal of teaching help into a relatively easy to use resource. That doesn't mean the HIGs don't sit on some peoples shelves, because they do sometimes.

 

I just don't think one is really teaching Singapore math the way it is intended to be taught if one does not round out the program beyond what is in the Textbook/Workbooks. Helping parents provide the "other part" is why the HIGs were written.

 

Bill

[TracyP]

I use US Ed. without the HIGs in 1A/1B. I started using the HIG with 2A. I didn't run into problems and I don't plan to switch it up for future dc at this point. I do use Miquon alongside SM. I also use CWP and IP (a recent addition) so that might also make a difference.

 

I'm sure plenty of people have used the US Ed w/o problems. I probably should have added that I was (I hope I can use the past tense) a complete dolt when it came to teaching math. My first experience with SM was three years ago, before I was so enlightened by this board.:D

[stripe]

I would personally love a math curriculum that starts off challenging and maintains a rigorous pace and S&S. Maybe when all the levels of Beast Academy are published that will be my solution, we'll have to see.

 

But they're not planning a y1 book. They are going to do 3, 4, and 5, and then 2. Maybe they're trying to avoid the same criticism?

[FairProspects]

But they're not planning a y1 book. They are going to do 3, 4, and 5, and then 2. Maybe they're trying to avoid the same criticism?

 

Or they think there are enough programs out there that cover the K-1 basics.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't plan on leaving SM. :) Because of our limited budget, I've been acquiring the books slowly over many years (I've known I wanted to hs my children for about 10 years, even though I've only been married for 5 and my oldest is only 3). I own all the textbooks, IP, and CW through 6B. I'm working on acquiring Miquon books and SM workbooks now.

 

I guess part of me rebels at the HIGs because I was a professional tutor until DD was about 6 months old. I get that tutoring algebra, geometry, and calculus is very different from teaching 1st grade math, but I suppose my background gives me lots of confidence in teaching my children math. Why should I spend that extra money when I could probably do fine on my own?

 

I'm not opposed to buying them if I need them, but I just have a hard time believing I will need them...

 

But, no, I have no plans to leave SM if it's not working at first. We've invested enough money in it that I'm determined to make it work - even if that means buying the HIGs. ;)

 

Well, I don't know you from Adam, so disregard anything that doesn't apply (and that is good advice for all of us navigating these boards :tongue_smilie:).

 

To be honest, I've struggled with composing a response that doesn't sound offensive or dismissive, and I truly don't intend to be either. However, you're right that teaching higher level math is different from teaching the basics of elementary math. There is a quote out there about not really knowing anything until you possess the ability to explain it to a five year old. (Anyone have that quote to share? :bigear:) When you know a great deal about a subject and have to teach it from its foundation, it can be tricky to keep from skipping what you see as obvious. Maybe you won't have that problem but many people do. Then they have to backtrack teaching what could have been taught completely from the start. No biggie, you might think. And sometimes it is no biggie. But sometimes it is a big deal and the problem is more than first meets the eye. Lost time, energy, and money. Frustration, confusion, and/or embarrassment. Missing something and being unaware that you missed something until you're miles down the mathematical road. Worst of all, in my mind, the seeds for dislike of a subject may be sown by poor understanding in the early years. Such a shame.

 

Confidence is good. Overconfidence is dangerous. A little bit of humility goes a long way. My children have humbled me too many times to count. :lol: It's a good thing. Keeps me in check. ;)

[LittleIzumi]

Well, I don't know you from Adam, so disregard anything that doesn't apply (and that is good advice for all of us navigating these boards ).

 

To be honest, I've struggled with composing a response that doesn't sound offensive or dismissive, and I truly don't intend to be either. However, you're right that teaching higher level math is different from teaching the basics of elementary math. There is a quote out there about not really knowing anything until you possess the ability to explain it to a five year old. (Anyone have that quote to share?) When you know a great deal about a subject and have to teach it from its foundation, it can be tricky to keep from skipping what you see as obvious. Maybe you won't have that problem but many people do. Then they have to backtrack teaching what could have been taught completely from the start. No biggie, you might think. And sometimes it is no biggie. But sometimes it is a big deal and the problem is more than first meets the eye. Lost time, energy, and money. Frustration, confusion, and/or embarrassment. Missing something and being unaware that you missed something until you're miles down the mathematical road. Worst of all, in my mind, the seeds for dislike of a subject may be sown by poor understanding in the early years. Such a shame.

 

Confidence is good. Overconfidence is dangerous. A little bit of humility goes a long way. My children have humbled me too many times to count. :lol: It's a good thing. Keeps me in check. ;)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Dealea86]

Well, I don't know you from Adam, so disregard anything that doesn't apply (and that is good advice for all of us navigating these boards :tongue_smilie:).

 

To be honest, I've struggled with composing a response that doesn't sound offensive or dismissive, and I truly don't intend to be either. However, you're right that teaching higher level math is different from teaching the basics of elementary math. There is a quote out there about not really knowing anything until you possess the ability to explain it to a five year old. (Anyone have that quote to share? :bigear:) When you know a great deal about a subject and have to teach it from its foundation, it can be tricky to keep from skipping what you see as obvious. Maybe you won't have that problem but many people do. Then they have to backtrack teaching what could have been taught completely from the start. No biggie, you might think. And sometimes it is no biggie. But sometimes it is a big deal and the problem is more than first meets the eye. Lost time, energy, and money. Frustration, confusion, and/or embarrassment. Missing something and being unaware that you missed something until you're miles down the mathematical road. Worst of all, in my mind, the seeds for dislike of a subject may be sown by poor understanding in the early years. Such a shame.

 

Confidence is good. Overconfidence is dangerous. A little bit of humility goes a long way. My children have humbled me too many times to count. :lol: It's a good thing. Keeps me in check. ;)

 

I'm not offended. I appreciate the advice. And to be honest, that's one of the reasons why I feel like Miquon is so important for me. I think it's a bit harder to miss those gaps or assumptions I'm making in a more concrete curriculum like Miquon.

 

As far as the HIGs... well the money isn't in the budget right now, so I'm not going to run out and buy them no matter what people say on this board. ;) We could make some sacrifices to make it work now, but to be honest that seems like it would be a poor use of our money if we end up never using it. If we do wind up needing it, we'll find a way to pay for it... but it's just not something I'm going to buy preemptively, ykwim?

[pitterpatter]

If my budget was that limited, I would get creative with other subjects at that level. In others words, I would find the money for math and figure out how to teach other subjects for less money. I feel all three components are essential as well.

 

Manipulatives don't have to be expensive. Hit some yard sales and buy some Legos/Duplos to use as linking cubes. Buy some board games for a couple of songs and use the pieces as manipulatives. Use a real clock off the wall to teach time. Real money for money. Keep an eye out for card games too. I use several different sets for math. Right now, I like the ones from Sleeping Queens for teaching number bonds. Find manipulatives you can print from the internet or copy the ones in the back of the HIGs.

 

Honestly, if I was so limited in my budget as to prevent me from buying the three main components of SM (HIG, TB, WB), I would advise using Math Mammoth. It is a good, solid, thorough program at a rock-bottom price. I personally couldn't use it for my first two students because of their personalities, but I think it is a great program for many kids.

[Embassy]

Personally, I find the mental math exercises in the HIG to have made a huge difference in my children's math skills. My budget is limited, but I spend more on math than any other subject.

[kalanamak]

I've heard of even SM people claiming 1A/B is the "weakest" year.

 

We did okay. I think it might be the first year for some people, and it is "different" than what they might expect. Coming to SM was a breath of fresh air to me. Others go "huh?" Different strokes for different folks.

 

My final conclusion is that math is WORK; it is applying the seat of one's pants to the seat of one's chair. Perhaps a detractor feels their child didn't "get it" with 1A/B change curr, go over the same topic and now child "gets" it and they say: it was a problem with SM all along, and it'll be Saxon from now on out!! Perhaps a detractor just wants an open and go. SM helped *me* stay awake by allowing me to take their spine and invent my own drawings, games, attacks. It was opening MY mathematical mind. SM won't necessarily "speak" to everyone.

 

(I am reminded of finding Reverse Polish Notation with my first HP. Wow. I discovered I had a Reverse Polish mind.)

[pitterpatter]

That makes plenty of sense since your DD is three right now. You probably won't need the first HIG for another year or two. I'd just keep my eye on the sale section of the board. You might get lucky one day and find it/them for dirt cheap. Good luck! :001_smile:

 

I'm not offended. I appreciate the advice. And to be honest, that's one of the reasons why I feel like Miquon is so important for me. I think it's a bit harder to miss those gaps or assumptions I'm making in a more concrete curriculum like Miquon.

 

As far as the HIGs... well the money isn't in the budget right now, so I'm not going to run out and buy them no matter what people say on this board. ;) We could make some sacrifices to make it work now, but to be honest that seems like it would be a poor use of our money if we end up never using it. If we do wind up needing it, we'll find a way to pay for it... but it's just not something I'm going to buy preemptively, ykwim?

[stripe]

I'm not opposed to buying them if I need them, but I just have a hard time believing I will need them...

 

But, no, I have no plans to leave SM if it's not working at first. We've invested enough money in it that I'm determined to make it work - even if that means buying the HIGs. ;)

if you've been buying them for years before even having children, you're clearly "wed" to the idea of them. I bought the whole set of textbooks and then didn't end up using them SO I'd advise only buying the HIG for year 1, used, cheap if possible, before loading up on years worth of curricula. That being said, I found a copy of the teacher's guide at a nearby library so was able to see it.

 

I've tutored college math, and I find elementary math with small children very different.

[kalanamak]

 

I'm not opposed to buying them if I need them, but I just have a hard time believing I will need them...

 

 

I bought a few HIGs when I felt bogged down. They did not help. The games didn't interest my son the way the ones I made up did, and in general: blah.

 

All we have needed it old fashioned "tincture of time".

 

What has helped: a detour through Division 2 of MM and Key to Fractions. I got a couple of other MM books, but (and I'm not alone here, there was another poster who did this too) I just had to trot them out for kiddo to cry, "NOT ANOTHER WORKBOOK", and he'd button down and learn the darned topic. :lol:

[kalanamak]

Personally, I find the mental math exercises in the HIG to have made a huge difference in my children's math skills. My budget is limited, but I spend more on math than any other subject.

 

I printed mental math problems off various websites (twice I've found nice start up sites that go to charging money once they get enough hits) over the years. There are cheaper ways to get these than HIGs. (Plus, you can make them yourself!!)

[BigMamaBird]

We just finished 1A and 1B, it was dd's favorite subject and her first requested class everyday. It worked very well for us. To be fair, she's the first child I've taught and have not used other math programs, so I don't have anything to compare it against. But we enjoyed the program and will be using 2A and 2B next year.

[Candid]

It's been a long time since we did 1A and 1B, but I recall them fondly. They were certainly the happy point of our home school day. WAY, WAY, above handwriting or learning to read. Sure they are easy, they are first grade math.

 

Jenny over on the Singapore Math forum says Singapore always goes from concrete, to visual, to abstract. It's no surprise that a first grade program has a lot of concrete and visual material.

 

I also find it silly that a first grade program would even bother to do four digit addition. What's the point? Addition is addition is addition. Once you can add up to over ten then you pretty much have all the skills you're going to need for all addition ever. However, I have in my distant past observed that sometimes young students freak out over what looks new to them. If that happens you end up wasting time reteaching what they already know. Much better in my option to ease into it and keep the freaking out to a minimum.

 

You can add two more happy students: one is in sixth grade and is happily handling algebra and geometry in NEM 1 and his older, ninth-grade brother is handling calculus in DM's Additional Math book. I'll be happy to talk to all those naysayers when their non-mathy child is doing calculus in the ninth grade.

[Incognito]

Ok, we just started with 1A not long ago, and we are about halfway through. I, however, only bought the workbook. So far I just explain the concept to my DD until she seems to understand and we do the workbook. If it doesn't seem to click, we use manipulatives too. I am trying to understand what magic there is in the HIG that makes it so necessary (I'm thinking lower levels like this)? Am i missing giving her deeper understanding?

[nmoira]

There's nothing wrong with it. I often recommend RS B in lieu of 1A/1B for a bright kid or for a parent particularly nervous about math. I also often advise people whose child thinks 1A/1B are too easy/babyish that this level is not representative of the rest of the program, especially when supplemented with IP/CWP. FWIW, my impression is based solely on the US Edition. But we didn't like RS beyond B (for DD the Elder, this is something of an understatement :tongue_smilie:), and there's not a thing wrong with Singapore's (relatively) gentler approach to first grade.

[sunshine clementine]

we love it..no problems..i actually switched to singapore from miquon with my first, and now we love math..and singapore is working great for all the other kids.

[Penelope]

I don't think there is anything wrong with 1A/1B. However, we have gone through it very quickly twice now (like in a couple of months). I think that might be because

 

1) unlike many here, I do not start Singapore at age 3-4-5. It is "first grade" here, even though it is done quickly and we then move to 2A.

2) we cover the concepts in other ways at age 4-5 but only hands-on without the written worksheets. By 6 there is no frustration in (mostly) independently reading and completing the Singapore wb pages.