Divorce and friendship and all that

[Scarlett]

So.

 

I was knocked on my butt this week. Literally laid up with a tension headache brought on by learning that my best friend's husband went 4 wheeling with my XH and my son.

 

I cried. Yep. That is right. I cried on the phone to my dh and to my brother....both of whom are 100% in agreement with me about it being a betrayal.

 

ANd yes I fully get that I don't get to decide who my friends socialize with.....but seriously is there no loyalty left in this world? This same best friend had a cheating husband (now an X) and their divorce has been finalized for 15 years. I was VERY close to him. I thought of him as family/a brother. And yet my loyalty was with HER not only because she was my friend first but mainly because SHE wasn't the one who blew up the family unit with adultery. After all these years I am STILL not overly friendly with him even though he has apparently repented and straighted out his life. I am pleasant when I see him, but I certainly don't go running around with him or his wife.

 

Thats all.

[Danestress]

Maybe he thought he was doing it for your son. Who told you? (((scarlett)))

[Scarlett]

Maybe he thought he was doing it for your son. Who told you? (((scarlett)))

 

My son told me. I managed to cover my shock so that ds didn't have to feel like his dad is the lowlife he actually is.

 

I sent my friend a text saying, 'hey just heard this.'

 

Crickets. That was over two days ago.

 

And no I do not believe he thought he was doing it 'for my son'. I do wish I could ask him to explain his thought process though. Apparently I shouldn't do that though.

 

In their defense, (and imo they need one) they didn't invite him to their home even though he was in their small town.

 

My brother who also lives in that small town says he may say something to my friend's dh...something alone the line of....'hey heard you were hanging out with Scarlett's X. Thought you might want to know he spent over 20 years telling me how one of his goals in life was to get your wife in bed.'

 

I guess I just want people to THINK about how you are making innocent people feel. I am not perfect, I was not a perfect wife, but I did NOT blow up my marriage. My X did that with his constant cheating. So why would any of MY friends keep him as a friend.

[clarkacademy]

I am sorry. That is really crummy. Maybe you should get out and make some new friends who will value you more. I hope you can start feeling better and it takes a great mom to keep it in and not let her son feel bad :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

I am sorry. That is really crummy. Maybe you should get out and make some new friends who will value you more. I hope you can start feeling better and it takes a great mom to keep it in and not let her son feel bad :grouphug:

 

I have lots of friends. So I guess I should stop the pity party. THIS friend though is my childhood friend. Raised together in same small town, same age, same congregation, married to our (first) husbands 5 weeks apart, families deeply intertwined. It is not like I can cut her out of my life.

 

So how do I deal with it? I don't know. I want to call them up and yell. Then again, SHE didn't go, HE did. And I've only known him for the last 13 years.....and he is only in my X's life because he married MY best friend.

 

Honestly I doubt this will be some recurring thing.....but I'm angry. I'm hurt.

 

Better to just shut up though?

[RanchGirl]

Try not to take it so personally, it's not about you, it's about a friendship that they have. I think it's unreasonable to think that because you have divorced, everyone else in your life has divorced him too.

 

Can you look on the bright side that since it sounds like your ex is such a pig, it's probably good to have a decent guy around for your son on their weekends?

[clarkacademy]

I have lots of friends. So I guess I should stop the pity party. THIS friend though is my childhood friend. Raised together in same small town, same age, same congregation, married to our (first) husbands 5 weeks apart, families deeply intertwined. It is not like I can cut her out of my life.

 

So how do I deal with it? I don't know. I want to call them up and yell. Then again, SHE didn't go, HE did. And I've only known him for the last 13 years.....and he is only in my X's life because he married MY best friend.

 

Honestly I doubt this will be some recurring thing.....but I'm angry. I'm hurt.

 

Better to just shut up though?

 

I don't care if you shut up you feel the way you feel. Get it out!!! I hate stuff like that and the fact she is not calling you back kinda speaks for itself. I recently cut someone out of my life who was that close. So close that at one point I had her two kids living with me but you do what makes you feel good ya know? Tomorrow this may not bother you at all then again it might so go with what makes you feel better!

[Blueridge]

Is it at least possible that your friend didn't know that her dh was going to do this, and that she found out after the fact, and was as mortified as you were? That might explain the crickets of no response...she just doesn't know quite what to say or do about it yet. :grouphug:

[LaxMom]

:grouphug: idiots suck.

[Scarlett]

Try not to take it so personally, it's not about you, it's about a friendship that they have. I think it's unreasonable to think that because you have divorced, everyone else in your life has divorced him too.

 

Really? Cuz I'm thinking it isn't all that unreasonable of me.

 

Let's put it this way. If you and I were IRL friends and your dh cheated on you with your 19 year old cousin, and then lied about it for 7 years and then got caught in an affair with a 24 year old co-worker and subsequently got busted for the 7 year old affair with your cousin....and then you found out he wanted to have sex with every young girl you had in your life....teenage girls of your lifelong friends....well, I'd divorce him even though he was YOUR husband.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you look on the bright side that since it sounds like your ex is such a pig, it's probably good to have a decent guy around for your son on their weekends?

 

Yes I will say my friend's husband is a better choice than most of XH's friends. That is a bright side. In a total pit of blackness that is enveloping my soul.

[Scarlett]

Is it at least possible that your friend didn't know that her dh was going to do this, and that she found out after the fact, and was as mortified as you were? That might explain the crickets of no response...she just doesn't know quite what to say or do about it yet. :grouphug:

 

Yes, this is possible. And I can't be mad at her for her dh's choices. I keep trying to remember this.

 

Silence is her preferred way of dealing with discomfort. Lifelong pattern.

 

Silence is not my way of dealing with discomfort. Lifelong pattern. ;)

[Bluegoat]

It strikes me that if the X was the one who did the inviting, your friend's husband may have felt kind of awkward to say no. It is one thing not to really pursue social engagement with someone in a case like that, but it is a lot more difficult for most people to come right out and brush people off to their face - passively backing off is pretty easy, actively breaking off contact not so much. It just seems to break so many social taboos to say "um, no, you are a sex pig and so I don't want to hang out with you".

[Scarlett]

It strikes me that if the X was the one who did the inviting, your friend's husband may have felt kind of awkward to say no. It is one thing not to really pursue social engagement with someone in a case like that, but it is a lot more difficult for most people to come right out and brush people off to their face - passively backing off is pretty easy, actively breaking off contact not so much. It just seems to break so many social taboos to say "um, no, you are a sex pig and so I don't want to hang out with you".

 

Yes. This is true.

 

If I could see inside friend's head I would imagine he was curious why my XH was reaching out to him. Maybe he thought he needed counsel or something....shrug. Who knows.

 

I think I deserved a phone call at least especially considering my son was with them!!

[Julie in CA]

Really? Cuz I'm thinking it isn't all that unreasonable of me.

 

I'm so sorry you're hurting. :grouphug::grouphug:

I would be too.

 

At the same time, (and I do hesitate to say this, because I have the impression that this is probably a venting JAWM post, and I have nothing against those :001_smile:) Yes, it's a little unreasonable. I expect my friends to be loyal, but I don't expect that their dh's will have that same regard for my feelings even if through the friendship they have spent some time with us as a group.

 

ETA: It also does make a difference, imo, that your ds was there. It's entirely possible that your friend's husband didn't see this as explicitly spending time with a creep, but more like a fun opportunity that just happened to have a creep coming along. Honestly, if my ds had to spend time with the creep, I'd be a little glad that a reasonably decent person was along with them.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Julie in CA

[Scarlett]

I'm so sorry you're hurting. :grouphug::grouphug:

I would be too.

 

At the same time, (and I do hesitate to say this, because I have the impression that this is probably a venting JAWM post, and I have nothing against those :001_smile:) Yes, it's a little unreasonable. I expect my friends to be loyal, but I don't expect that their dh's will have that same regard for my feelings even if through the friendship they have spent some time with us as a group.

 

ETA: It also does make a difference, imo, that your ds was there. It's entirely possible that your friend's husband didn't see this as explicitly spending time with a creep, but more like a fun opportunity that just happened to have a creep coming along. Honestly, if my ds had to spend time with the creep, I'd be a little glad that a reasonably decent person was along with them.

 

Yes....maybe he felt it was ok since ds was there..

 

And yes you are right this was basically a JAWM post. :D

 

But I happily read all opposing opinions...:) Ok, maybe not happily. ;)

[Catwoman]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

If this is a lifelong friend, she will be able to deal with it if you call her on the phone or visit her at her home, and tell her exactly how you feel.

 

There's no reason to have to be politically correct with a lifelong close friend. You need to clear the air between you, or the friendship will never be the same again.

 

Don't wait around for her to get back to you. Be pro-active and get it all out in the open.

 

I'm sorry you're so upset. :grouphug::grouphug:

[KnitWit]

:grouphug:Scarlett:grouphug:

 

Yes. I get it. It would shock me and I would feel utterly betrayed.

[AnaShoo]

Feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt as I haven't been the one in your place. However, I am sort of in the position of your friend. In my case, it is my brother who is divorced, and his exwife, sigh, has been a real jerk about it. She tried to take his kids from him completely, and we actually helped pay for his legal defense when he was strapped for cash.

 

I do, however, have a relationship of some sorts with her. In truth, it's really only because of my nephews. I've have told her outright that if it came to it, I was always going to side with my brother (she doesn't know we helped pay his lawyer), and I will not get together with her unless I have talked to him first to be sure there are no hurt feelings (I live outside the US atm, so there's really been no opportunity, but she's asked about coming to visit when we move back this summer - I want to see my nephews, so will be fine about it if my brother is).

 

Anyway, just wanted to say the whole divorce thing is unfortunately not contained to the two people involved. Despite my SIL's poor behavior, I did have a close friendship with her for years. My sisters all have contact with her in some form or other, although I think I am probably the most reserved in that situation. It's not an easy thing to navigate, and I do think it's unfair to instantly expect everyone on each side to cuts ties completely.

 

I do think your friend should have at least given you a heads-up about it, but I do wonder if he did it mostly for your son? I dunno - as I said before, I am only really hanging on to the relationship with my SIL because she has primary custody of my nephews and I'd like to keep a relationship with them. When they grow up and move on, so will I.

[Scarlett]

Feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt as I haven't been the one in your place. However, I am sort of in the position of your friend. In my case, it is my brother who is divorced, and his exwife, sigh, has been a real jerk about it. She tried to take his kids from him completely, and we actually helped pay for his legal defense when he was strapped for cash.

 

I do, however, have a relationship of some sorts with her. In truth, it's really only because of my nephews. I've have told her outright that if it came to it, I was always going to side with my brother (she doesn't know we helped pay his lawyer), and I will not get together with her unless I have talked to him first to be sure there are no hurt feelings (I live outside the US atm, so there's really been no opportunity, but she's asked about coming to visit when we move back this summer - I want to see my nephews, so will be fine about it if my brother is).

 

Anyway, just wanted to say the whole divorce thing is unfortunately not contained to the two people involved. Despite my SIL's poor behavior, I did have a close friendship with her for years. My sisters all have contact with her in some form or other, although I think I am probably the most reserved in that situation. It's not an easy thing to navigate, and I do think it's unfair to instantly expect everyone on each side to cuts ties completely.

 

I do think your friend should have at least given you a heads-up about it, but I do wonder if he did it mostly for your son? I dunno - as I said before, I am only really hanging on to the relationship with my SIL because she has primary custody of my nephews and I'd like to keep a relationship with them. When they grow up and move on, so will I.

 

Well, lets see.....My brother divorced his first wife, mother of his oldest two children....I can see her faults but I would assign blame to my brother almost 100%. We supported her for years....are still on good terms with her. I took her shopping for her wedding dress for her second marriage. My brother had no problem with that. She is the mother of my blood relatives....there is really no way to cut her totally out of my life nor does she really deserve that.

 

My XH? He deserves it. He is still seeing the homewrecker he was involved with that destroyed our son's family. So no sign of being sorry for anything he has done. Therefore if you want to be my friend you can't be his.

[Joanne]

There is a certain kind of NPD slimebucket who manages to charm, delight, entertain, and convince many people in their life journey.

 

Sometimes their behavior is SO outrageous, but well concealed, that seemingly intelligent people just can't believe that a person could be so (smart, charming, career successful) and still be all the things an ex spouse says.

 

That is why a certain type of NPD slimebucket remains dangerous to those who left him.

 

There are people in my shared past with my xh that would never believe the truth and would love to hang with him again (this is mostly our crowd from AZ. He had less luck with people here.)

 

There are a few intuitive, discerning gems, though. I now see they saw through him back when.

 

I try to be understanding of when people stay in contact with him. After all, I stayed with mine for 15 years and had sex with him at least 4 times. ;)

[Jen500]

:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

There is a certain kind of NPD slimebucket who manages to charm, delight, entertain, and convince many people in their life journey.

 

Sometimes their behavior is SO outrageous, but well concealed, that seemingly intelligent people just can't believe that a person could be so (smart, charming, career successful) and still be all the things an ex spouse says.

 

That is why a certain type of NPD slimebucket remains dangerous to those who left him.

 

There are people in my shared past with my xh that would never believe the truth and would love to hang with him again (this is mostly our crowd from AZ. He had less luck with people here.)

 

There are a few intuitive, discerning gems, though. I now see they saw through him back when.

 

I try to be understanding of when people stay in contact with him. After all, I stayed with mine for 15 years and had sex with him at least 4 times. ;)

 

LOL Good point Joanne. I had sex at least once. ;)

 

And yes, this particular friend was devastated by me divorcing XH. I remember him telling his wife (my best friend) that he was going to call up X and try to talk 'some sense into him.' My friend was like, ':confused: It is too late for that! Scarlett is not going to take him back!' He just couldn't grasp that my XH had been so stupid and so selfish and that it was OVER. Maybe he needed closure? LOL....I dunno...it has been 3 years---one would think he would be over it by now.

[Hen]

(Hugs)

 

I would be very upset, too.

 

I kind of think your brother should go ahead and say that to the friend, it might be eye-opening to him.

[Scarlett]

:grouphug:

 

If this is a lifelong friend, she will be able to deal with it if you call her on the phone or visit her at her home, and tell her exactly how you feel.

 

There's no reason to have to be politically correct with a lifelong close friend. You need to clear the air between you, or the friendship will never be the same again.

 

Don't wait around for her to get back to you. Be pro-active and get it all out in the open.

 

I'm sorry you're so upset. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

I guess that is why I am so upset...I know I NEED to bring it up...but I am afraid of it getting out of hand.....so much emotion...and really SHE didn't do it. Her dh did.

 

:grouphug:Scarlett:grouphug:

 

Yes. I get it. It would shock me and I would feel utterly betrayed.

 

:grouphug:

 

(Hugs)

 

I would be very upset, too.

 

I kind of think your brother should go ahead and say that to the friend, it might be eye-opening to him.

 

Thanks ladies!

 

I don't care if you shut up you feel the way you feel. Get it out!!! I hate stuff like that and the fact she is not calling you back kinda speaks for itself. I recently cut someone out of my life who was that close. So close that at one point I had her two kids living with me but you do what makes you feel good ya know? Tomorrow this may not bother you at all then again it might so go with what makes you feel better!

 

I agree that her ignoring me does speak LOUDLY. It is her pattern though. When I went through my own personal crisis shortly after my divorce I again felt utterly abandonded by her.

 

:grouphug: idiots suck.

 

:lol:

 

Yes. They do. Ty.

[Kirch]

LOL Good point Joanne. I had sex at least once. ;)

 

And yes, this particular friend was devastated by me divorcing XH. I remember him telling his wife (my best friend) that he was going to call up X and try to talk 'some sense into him.' My friend was like, ':confused: It is too late for that! Scarlett is not going to take him back!' He just couldn't grasp that my XH had been so stupid and so selfish and that it was OVER. Maybe he needed closure? LOL....I dunno...it has been 3 years---one would think he would be over it by now.

 

:grouphug: Is there any chance your friend's dh went even though she wasn't happy about it? That would put her in a tough spot--she may not be happy that he went, but she might not want to criticize him to you, kwim?

[5LittleMonkeys]

I have no advice but wanted to tell you that I'm sorry you are feeling hurt and betrayed. I hope tomorrow finds you feeling a little better and that you can talk with your friend once your emotions aren't as high. :grouphug:

[NorthwestMom]

There is a certain kind of NPD slimebucket who manages to charm, delight, entertain, and convince many people in their life journey.

 

Sometimes their behavior is SO outrageous, but well concealed, that seemingly intelligent people just can't believe that a person could be so (smart, charming, career successful) and still be all the things an ex spouse says.

 

That is why a certain type of NPD slimebucket remains dangerous to those who left him.

 

There are people in my shared past with my xh that would never believe the truth and would love to hang with him again (this is mostly our crowd from AZ. He had less luck with people here.)

 

There are a few intuitive, discerning gems, though. I now see they saw through him back when.

 

I try to be understanding of when people stay in contact with him. After all, I stayed with mine for 15 years and had sex with him at least 4 times. ;)

 

I think a lot of people don't understand that character rubs off on those who interact with it. They think that he might have treated you poorly, but he certainly wouldn't do anything to them.

 

Ugh. I am sorry.

[Mama Geek]

Scarlett, I am sorry you are hurting, here is a :grouphug:.

 

One of the really bad things of the times we live in is that no one is willing to hold others accountable today. It is a do what ever makes me feel good time and who cares what is right and most people will sit back and keep their mouths shut when people are doing wrong.

 

If you want to talk to your friends, I would give it a little time so that you can cool down some. That will help you to keep your emotions in check and your logic remain in control. There may or may not be an ok reason that he did this. He may have made a mistake and now regrets it. I would at least here them out once you have calmed down some. Throwing old friendships away is hard and we are taught to show grace towards people.

[lmrich]

Don't be angry with your friend. It was her husband who went. AND we all know we can't control them. I could see (not agree) with how a man would not think it was wrong. He thought four-wheeling - cool. I always wanted to go four-wheeling. It probably didn't involve him thinking, oh wait this guy is scum, my wife's friend was betrayed and hurt by that scum. No all he thought about was the fun time he was going to have. Sorry you got hurt again. Men and women just don't think alike and sometimes noone thinks at all.

[Catwoman]

I agree that her ignoring me does speak LOUDLY. It is her pattern though. When I went through my own personal crisis shortly after my divorce I again felt utterly abandonded by her.

 

 

OK, someone has to ask, so it might as well be me...

 

Why do you consider this woman to be a close friend when she abandons you whenever the going gets tough? :confused:

 

You deserve better.

[Scarlett]

OK, someone has to ask, so it might as well be me...

 

Why do you consider this woman to be a close friend when she abandons you whenever the going gets tough? :confused:

 

You deserve better.

 

Good question. The best answer I can come up with is that she is like a blood relative. So even though she isn't the best sister in the world...at times....she is still my sister.

 

I love her. I know she loves me. It is just that I am a better friend to her than she is to me.

[TranquilMind]

Try not to take it so personally, it's not about you, it's about a friendship that they have. I think it's unreasonable to think that because you have divorced, everyone else in your life has divorced him too.

 

Can you look on the bright side that since it sounds like your ex is such a pig, it's probably good to have a decent guy around for your son on their weekends?

I gotta agree here. You really can't determine who hangs out with your ex husband and who should never speak to him again, based on how he treated you. And your friend didn't go, her husband did, who doesn't have the same history with him, unless I am misunderstanding.

 

You do have a point that if he treated you badly, then he will likely treat others badly, and if that is so, the guy will figure out sooner or later that this is not a great friend choice, right?

 

I understand being annoyed.

[Scarlett]

I gotta agree here. You really can't determine who hangs out with your ex husband and who should never speak to him again, based on how he treated you. And your friend didn't go, her husband did, who doesn't have the same history with him, unless I am misunderstanding.

 

You do have a point that if he treated you badly, then he will likely treat others badly, and if that is so, the guy will figure out sooner or later that this is not a great friend choice, right?

 

I understand being annoyed.

 

Well, I know I can't make decisions for other people. But I can sure as heck be hurt by it. And the choices aren't 'hang out with him or never speak with him again.' I'm not against my friends 'speaking' with him. In fact, I have had to deal with that several times in the last 3 years and I felt my friends were the model of grace and kindness to a man who IMO deserves very little of that. I'm good with that. He is a human being after all. But going to the trouble of loading up 4 wheeling stuff and spending the day socially with him as if NOTHING BAD HAPPPENED....well, it crosses the line.

 

My friend's dh is a good man. Good husband, father, Christian and friend. So I have to assume his motives were pure....but he is sadly misguided.....my XH wants a trophy and he got it. (See your friends like me better than they do you in spite of all I"ve done). This friend of mine is off the charts wealthy and my XH is mesmerized by that....so the whole thing just feels ick.