Alison in KY Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I've got an increasingly smart mouthed just turned 9 yr old. Everything with him is so intense...and he is a boy so he's good at picking. Then there's the 7 yr old girl who is also way intense, bossy, and can't accept a no. But when she gets in trouble there's a nervous breakdown. Then the 5 yr old girl with the shrill screams. I swear, everyone in my house is so strong willed, intense, loud, and anything else that isn't calm and easy. I'm having a hard time thinking of creative ways to discipline them. I'm tired of the 9 yr olds smart mouth, and I"m tired of them physically fighting and calling each other stupid, etc. We don't have fancy video games and nothing that they really seem to "love"...no fav toy or anything, so that's not even easy. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Strong willed is an interesting word. To me it means misbehavior. It sounds like things need to shut down at your house until everyone straightens up. No tolerance. If I had a five yr old screaming, I'd spank her. Send the seven yr old to her room and tell her to boss her dolls, cause it ain't gonna happen anywhere else. And I do believe I'd stop feeding the boy unless he could speak respectfully. I doubt he'll let himself starve. If they insist on acting that way I'd insist they stay in their rooms. And I'd quit doing anything for them until they stopped. Harsh but effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Wow I have a smart mouth 7 yr old (almost 8) and 5 yr old who doesn't get "no" as well. And yes, strong willed are all of them. But so am I :D For the smart mouth, I'm working on showing him the difference between smart mouth= disrespect, rude or mean and smart mouth = harmless and funny becuase we do have kind of a sarcastic sense of humor in the house. Consequences for being disrespectful are time in the "thinking corner" where he can think about what he did and get ready to apologise. When he apologizes, we talk about, and then I require him to do something for me to make up for his disrespect, such as a chore. The not taking no is harder. My daughter is JUST LIKE ME. And while I want her to be a strongwilled adult, I also need to teach her boundaries, and of course respect for parents. The key, at least with my daughter, is complete and utter consistency. I need to constantly remind her that it is not acceptable to tell me no, and then when she does, the consequences need to be immediate. Usually for her the thinking corner, an apology, a talk, and a removal of a privilege. I find that if I stay on top of her, and deal out the consequence firmly, calmly and immediately, then she does well. When I get lazy, she knows it and she runs with it. If, when I send her to the thinking corner, she throws a fit, I just calmly add on one minute to her time there, and if that doesn't calm her down I add on one minute more. If it looks like its going to keep escalating I tell her she can go ahead and throw her fit and I'll be back when she's done to start her time out. If they call each other a name, they have to apologize and if its really bad, I make them hug...or kiss on the cheek. Which my 7 yr old HATES so its a definite curb for him. I don't really have much of a problem with name calling. Anyway, thats how it is here. Don't know if that will help you or anything, but I do know where you're coming from. I think most of all you have to establish firm rules and be consistant in them. Don't get pulled into their drama, stay calm. You're the boss. And look around, find out what their currency is, what is it that they don't want to lose, whether it be privilege or object or whatever. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Well, here are some of my favourite ideas: Routine and order- lack of routine and order makes everyone load and noisy around here, and things are much more likely to get on my nerves, and then I am less likely to handle things well and consistently. Consistency- it is essential to mean what you say and follow through, every time. Never make idle threats. Often, you only have to get up and follow through once or twice to get the message across that mum means business, every time. Make the punishment fit the crime- I am very much in favour of immediate consequences rather than delayed ones. I never deny my kids outings, or things in the future, or punish them for long periods of time. I would rather an immediate, severe punishment than a mild, drawn out one. (Unless it's something like weeding :)). I want to "make up" with my kids as soon as possible, and I want them to be able to let go of things quickly. I cant stand hardening my heart against them so that I can implement a drawn out punishment. It hurts my heart and it has never been necessary. By this I mean things like keeping a child home from favourite outings for weeks in teh future because in a moment of anger you told them you would, or even staying in their room all day, or take away a favourite toy or game. I can't do it. I would rather give them a hard chore, or fine them, or spank them, or have a full on yell and get it over with. When the consequence has been given and the child is remorseful (if the child feels no remorse and is still angry, reconsider the consequences you give), make sure you reconnect and completely forgive the child and let go of the past, and any leftover resentment. Let them know they are completely loved, in this new moment. I think that's an area some mums find hard...they get run down and feel an ongoing underlying resentment and never get to a completely fresh feeling of forgiveness and love with their difficult kids, and then it becomes a downwards spiral because the kids don't feel quite accepted, loved and forgiven, ever. Make sure you have fun with the kids often so you are not just the mean, strict or nagging mum. Maybe they need to wrestle with YOU, or have a tickle or a walk together to burn up some energy. I dont try and lecture my kids when they are being badly behaved. I save the morality and the advice and the explaining for when I am not upset, and they are not all worked up. I don't see much point in trying to teach them to be kind to each other when they are being mean- because they really don't care at that moment. I try and teach it at other times and just tell them off or give consequences when they are mean. Don't sweat the small stuff. I don't try and interfere with every argument my kids have with each other. Thats not always going to be appropriate for everyone's situation, but my two just bicker at times and i am not going to try and adjudicate. Sometimes i help them talk through it, but often one or the other is too emotional to rationalise with, and it just needs to be waited out. If my kids get too noisy for me and my nerves are ragged, I leave the room or insist they leave the room. When my smart mouthed son goes too far, I tell him, and if continues to do it, I give a consequence. Mostly, he knows when he can get away with it and when it steps over the line, but I have to keep drawing a line. Personally i think thats an important thing.....I want my kids to know when it's appropriate to be "smart". I have a very strict husband who always backs me up (well, usually). And our kids are not badly behaved, but still, I think most families have these issues and it is possible to work with them. I dont want to give the imporession I have it al under control though...my kids certainly bug me at times and I have been known to lose my temper :001_smile:. Pulling them into line BEFORE I get to that point is my ideal :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Strong willed is an interesting word. To me it means misbehavior. It sounds like things need to shut down at your house until everyone straightens up. No tolerance. If I had a five yr old screaming, I'd spank her. Send the seven yr old to her room and tell her to boss her dolls, cause it ain't gonna happen anywhere else. And I do believe I'd stop feeding the boy unless he could speak respectfully. I doubt he'll let himself starve. If they insist on acting that way I'd insist they stay in their rooms. And I'd quit doing anything for them until they stopped. Harsh but effective. I can't rep you again yet, so I'll just say... :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I start giving out early bedtimes in 15 min. increments. I haven't used anything else for discipline in awhile and this has worked better than other ideas we've tried. After a few nights of going to bed 30-45 minutes early (or earlier), they start thinking before acting or speaking. It's not fun going to bed when the sun hasn't gone down yet! I also try to work on both sides of the behavior spectrum by looking and listening for behavior and words that are acceptable and use a "Blessings Chart" for that. 10 points earns a reward for various behaviors and speech. (starting with 1 point each time I hear or see acceptable behaviors and speech) They don't earn 10 points in one day, but I try to do it every few weeks so they know that a "blessing" will actually occur. If I was having trouble with particular issues like talking back, arguing, etc., I might count points faster by listening for times they did respond properly to you and each other so they could see what proper behavior can earn them. But, unfortunately, my experience has shown that it takes negative consequences to nip it in the bud at first, as I'm sure you know too. Best wishes for a quick turn around! ((((hug)))) I know how weary these moments can make us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Raising Your Spirited Child. So, I will just recommend it :D The author's advice really saved my daughter's and my relationship. Tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closeacademy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I did the Red light, yellow light, green light thing. I found it in a book on dealing with difficult children. There was a bunch of ideas like this for different age groups. Basically, on my wall I have an envelope for each child with 3 sheets of paper in there one for each color--red, yellow and green. I have a sign that says: Red = Stop, Yellow = Slow down and Green = Go. I explained to my dc that if they are in the Green zone that they are doing fine but if I move them into yellow they need to think about how they are acting and slow down (basically quit picking on each other) and if they go into the red zone that means 1 more incident and everyone gets Time-out. It has worked fairly well.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 At our house we "try that again" when dd comes out with rude, bossy, or whiny speech. She doesn't get a hearing until she speaks in a calm, polite, and preferably rational way. If there is any physical lashing out on her part, we name it for what it is ("You're hurting me! We don't hit in this family.") and she is made to be alone until she can master her temper. Depending on the weather, I will send her to her room or outdoors for a cooling-off period. This is not a punishment; it's a chance for both of us to calm down. I also give myself "time outs," when I'm angry, and I'll say, "Please leave me alone right now. I love you, but I am very angry right now and I don't want to say or do something out of anger." I don't expect perfection - after all, I'm still working on that myself! - but I do expect progress over time. Firmness and a whole lotta grace seem to work best for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubamama Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 A website that I love to browse for parenting ideas is rosemond.com It's chock full of creative disicpline ideas and no nonsense parenting a la grandma's way. It really has done the trick for my older ones...providing that mom can just be consistant ! :tongue_smilie:It even features a write in section - I have in the past written in a parenting dilemma and actually gotten a response in a day or 2. I had to join as a member (I think it was $15? I don't remember) but it was really worth it at the time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I go through times when I am so exasperated by my kids behaviors. My advice: I would have a family pow wow when everyone is calm. I'd make it into something fun like going out to lunch or for ice cream or taking a walk or whatever would be a calm, loving atmosphere for your family. Then I was tell them how sad it makes you and hard it makes life for as you as a mom to have to deal with all these behaviors and that you want to do something so that as a family you get to be closer and more loving and respectful. I'd ask them their thoughts on it. Then I'd come up with super simple plan like: have some kind of warning clue when 5 year old starts getting out of control, a word or secret sign. She get's a chance to calm down, if she doesn't then she has to go to her room to calm down for 5 minutes. This is what I do for my very emotional, high strung, strong willed six year old. It isn't a magic pill, but things are definitely improving. For the smart mouth 9 yo old, try do overs. When he gets smart alecky, say 'oh, honey that wasn't the kindest way to say that! Let's do it over." And then redo things. After a bit he'll pick up on the clues. If he can't co-operate in this then he also needs to retire to his room for 9 minutes (I just do the number of minutes corresponding to their age) so he think about his behavior that was disrespectful. I'd always include apologies too. "You may apologize when you are calm/nice again." If we are out and an episode occurs we take them to the car for their 'calming time.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Is dad on board with this? If so, esp. with the 9 year old boy, I would have dad make it VERY clear that NO ONE (esp. not a 9 year old boy) will treat HIS wife that way. I also feel that if they have time to fight, argue, etc. then they have time for CHORES. Have a jar with a list of easy/quick chores for them and when a problem arises, they do the chore and then can go back to reg. life. If they take 2 hours to do it, that is fine, but reg. life isn't for them until it is done and done well. If they do it in 10 minutes, then great, go back and act like nothing was ever a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 some great ideas and a big hug to you all. thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I've got an increasingly smart mouthed just turned 9 yr old. Everything with him is so intense...and he is a boy so he's good at picking. Then there's the 7 yr old girl who is also way intense, bossy, and can't accept a no. But when she gets in trouble there's a nervous breakdown. Then the 5 yr old girl with the shrill screams. I swear, everyone in my house is so strong willed, intense, loud, and anything else that isn't calm and easy. I'm having a hard time thinking of creative ways to discipline them. I'm tired of the 9 yr olds smart mouth, and I"m tired of them physically fighting and calling each other stupid, etc. We don't have fancy video games and nothing that they really seem to "love"...no fav toy or anything, so that's not even easy. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Alison in KY There are no secrets. Consistent training is the ONLY way that works. www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogster Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 We tried EVERYTHING. Nothing worked as well as the Accountable Kids system. It literally changed us all and gave us a happy peaceful home. DH and I are better parents and our children are a pleasure to be around because of this program. :001_smile:Here is a link if you are interested: http://www.accountablekids.com/fotm1007.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in KY Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 We practice. A lot. For instance, if ds has a hard time shutting the door properly, he gets to practice shutting it nicely 10 times in succession. If dd stomps away from me, she gets to come back and practice walking away gently, ten times. If one of the dc say "o-KAY!!" when the response should have been, "Yes, mom," the child gets to say "Yes, mom" ten times in a sweet tone of voice. If s/he can't muster a sweet tone of voice, the dc takes a break until s/he can. I let them determine how long of a break they need in order to be kind to the rest of the family. While they are on a break, they don't get to do anything except lay on the bed and calm down. We also give consequences that fit the crime. If you treat your brother poorly, you must do something kind for him to repair the relationship. (We emphasize relationships in our home.) If you don't feed the animal, you don't eat until the animal is cared for. If you take a pet somewhere in the house where it doesn't belong (e.g., guinea pig on the bedroom carpet), you get to vacuum the room. Also, I have found that a bit of physical labor everyday makes my son proud of himself and a joy to be around. If he spends the day just feeding his passions (audio books/screen time), he becomes kind of difficult. The best days are when I ask him to go saw down saplings or hammer things together. Even 20 minutes of a constructive chore sets his day up for success. Above all, make sure you are in control of yourself at all times. Raising your voice/getting angry is counterproductive. Let them cry all they want, but eventually they will learn that unflappable you means it when you say X, Y, or Z will happen every time they do A, B, or C. I will even give the child a cuddle when he or she is mad at me, just to show I am not angry back and that the consequence is not a punishment, but a natural outcome of the chosen behavior. Kids need to know they are always loved and can't run afoul of that love, even though I am saying "No" to whatever the want is at the time. I remind them often that my job is raising them to be good, productive, self-satisfied and content adults. If that means they have to experience a bit of stormy weather time and again, it will all be worth it in the end. They need to learn how to handle difficult or disappointing situations with authority figures now, so that they have happy and successful lives. I also totally agree with the poster who said consistency is essential. My kids know exactly what they can get away with, and what they can't. You may like this site: http://www.biblicalparenting.org/ and Scott Turansky's books Parenting is Heart Work and Say Goodbye to Whining Complaining and Bad Attitudes in You and Your Kids. Almost all my parenting tricks come from these books! HTH, Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I swear, everyone in my house is so strong willed, intense, loud, and anything else that isn't calm and easy. I'm having a hard time thinking of creative ways to discipline them. I'm tired of the 9 yr olds smart mouth, and I"m tired of them physically fighting and calling each other stupid, etc. I haven't read through all of the replies, yet, so forgive me if I repeat someone else's advice. First of all, (((Alison))), it is really hard to have three noisy, aggressive, active little people in one's home. With my kids, annoying behavior on the part of one will cause a chain reaction until all four are crazy. It is tiring, on so many levels. I often will interrupt with "Stop! Rewind!" or "I'm sure you meant to say . . . " if the kids are being rude or hurtful. There's a surprising amount of power in acknowledging whatever small desire to be kind still lies inside of them. But my 8yo had, a year ago, taken to responding with, "NO! I meant to say that!" and sometimes the 11yo will say, "Um, sure," in a sarcastic tone. On those occasions, I make them leave our presence. "Go somewhere else until you can be loving." My partner often takes the opposite approach, spending alone time with them and discussing their need to be mean until the kids are so annoyed that they swear they're cured and will never do it again. Surprisingly, our usually very social children would spend almost an hour alone after being excused in this way. This leads me to believe that sometimes their constant togetherness grows wearying to them. They're not self aware enough yet to ask for alone time before irritation becomes a problem. Also, I've learned the importance of never letting it slip even once. Sometimes my only response is a gentle, "Is there something bothering you? You seem to be taking it out on me." This still communicates to the kids that mean speech is never normal, never acceptable, never tolerated. As for the shrieking 5yo, I switched the whole family over to whispering for a while. Then, when my shrieker had the impulse to be loud, a regular tone was enough. Eventually things went back to normal. Either my shrieker had outgrown it by then, or bringing it all down a notch cured him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura K (NC) Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 One of the best discipline ideas I ever got was from Brenda from the old board. Pushups. And if pushups aren't done perfectly or if the kid has to do them so much that a change of routine is in order, wall-sits: The child sits against the wall, shins perpendicular to the floor, thighs parallel to the floor, arms straight out in front, head and shoulders against the wall. Hold, without disrespect :), starting with 15-20 seconds. My 15yo can do 60 seconds. Jumping jacks do the trick also as long as there are many of them. Sit-ups work. I've also sent my oldest son for a long run down the road. He was cooled off by the time he got back. He was conscientious enough at the time not to run off or get lost or distracted. I wouldn't send my 11yo off to do the same thing. He'd come back enthralled that he caught a turtle or saw a duck, and the punishment would be entirely lost on him.:glare: The added benefit of physical punishment is strong children! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Heaven Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 We have been using this about 3 weeks. The top level is "Full privleges" and the bottom level is "grounding". They go up one level a day (24 hours for the older) and I have 2 ladders (8 rungs ea). One ladder for teens; one ladder for youngers. Levels are very "house-specific"; iow my privleges lost/or punishments given will differ from those at other homes. (For instance losing computer or TV privleges here means nothing to anyone because we don't use those much. But losing play outside or play after church or cell phone privleges (depends on the kid & age) work better.) We used a magnetic white board and the kids started by gluing their photos on their magnets that they move up and down the ladder at my instruction. Truly, the ladder is for *me*. It helps me to be consistent and not to *over* or *under* discipline. It removes my temper/anger for the most part. And the best thing, for the most part, the kids *love* it. The first rung down from Full Privleges is to write Bible verses (with the added directive to pray/think/adj attitude and this has been *amazing* in that there is really very little grumbling and very much "Mom, did you know it says this in the Bible?" or "Mom, I forgot this verse, we learned that in Sunday School last year." etc etc. It is *not* punitive and I am pleasantly surprised. Other things are remove videos, extra chores, running around the house-get some energy out, lose cell ph/videos. For the most part, everyone moves up automatically in the morning one level and they move up levels every 24 hours. I am only posting because this has been a godsend for us. I believe that God has blessed us with this system (and it is a loose system) because our house operates as "controlled chaos" most of the time. I might add to that I consider myself a generally "strict" mom (don't worry I am fun and loving too :) and so I am expecting high standards of respect and obedience. Yet, they are given warnings to change the behavior before they go down the ladder. Ok, just posting to encourage if anyone has the trouble I do with being consistent, not over or under-reacting and needing some help "remembering" what's going on with multiple kids. Lisaj, mom to 5 (who often has more and had 9 all weekend while my dh was out of town) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 One book that has been a blessing to me: "Creative Correction" by Lisa Whelchel. It's full of great ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandpsmommy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 At our house we "try that again" when dd comes out with rude, bossy, or whiny speech. She doesn't get a hearing until she speaks in a calm, polite, and preferably rational way. If there is any physical lashing out on her part, we name it for what it is ("You're hurting me! We don't hit in this family.") and she is made to be alone until she can master her temper. Depending on the weather, I will send her to her room or outdoors for a cooling-off period. This is not a punishment; it's a chance for both of us to calm down. I also give myself "time outs," when I'm angry, and I'll say, "Please leave me alone right now. I love you, but I am very angry right now and I don't want to say or do something out of anger." I don't expect perfection - after all, I'm still working on that myself! - but I do expect progress over time. Firmness and a whole lotta grace seem to work best for us. :iagree: with all of that. We have "do overs" and "practicing it the appropriate way", also, if dc speak rudely. We talk about what would be the appropriate/polite/acceptable way of speaking and then we try it out. I think that when it comes to teaching our children how to speak politely, express their emotions in an acceptable way, and treat other people with kindness and respect, keeping our own failings/imperfections in view and really coming at it from the perspective of trying to help our kids change and be able to function more effectively in relationships over time is much more effective than thinking in terms of punishments/consequences. It does take consistency, though. If one of my children refuses to listen or cooperate with instruction, then I would think about removing them from the situation until they can calm down and cooperate. If this doesn't work, then I would think about imposing some sort of conequence. But only if trying to talk through it and turn it around had failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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