Talk me out of it! TOG

[curlylocks]

Here's a question: Since it broken down weekly do you think I would have an easier time supplementing different books? or would that just totally defeat the purpose? I am mainly thinking of the LG level as there were some books I would like to add in or possibly remove.

 

I'm not sure that the daily vs. weekly layout make it any more/less easy to substitute books.

 

IME, it was easier to substitute books for history than it was for Literature...especially if you want to use the Literature worksheets. (They are book-specific.)

 

Hope that helps...

[simka2]

What year did you want to look at? You can see an a sample of year 2. Even though it will be updated, I think it will give you a pretty good idea of the structure.

 

I finally figured it out! I was a little disappointed to see that they had daily schedules in the old samples, but are now working towards just the weekly schedule. :confused: I am not sure what I prefer as I think the weekly format might give me a bit more flexibility.

 

I'm not sure that the daily vs. weekly layout make it any more/less easy to substitute books.

 

IME, it was easier to substitute books for history than it was for Literature...especially if you want to use the Literature worksheets. (They are book-specific.)

 

Hope that helps...

 

Makes perfect sense! :001_smile:

[simka2]

I do not want to start a completely separate thread, but will if I have to. ;)

 

Do you know (or know someone) who has done YR2 and can clue me into the trickier theological areas?

 

Has anyone put together a secular TOG yet? ;)

[Sahamamama]

If a person doesn't want heavily Reformed religion and LOTS of it, they shouldn't use TOG year 1. Many, many weeks the history is Bible, and the commentary is very Reformed.

 

We're not Calvinist but I'm familiar enough with the Bible and my own beliefs that I don't mind working with it. I can easily adapt or skip whatever doesn't really suit us. I am a little bothered by the # of weeks that Bible study is the only history studied, but overall it's a very thorough year.

 

I like TOG. I'll use it again. But it's very Reformed. I've not used year 2 yet, so I'm a little anxious to see how Catholicism is handled...

 

Tibbie, thanks for posting this. It's good for me to know, because we are also not Reformed. I suppose, like you, I could work with it and filter out what we don't want to teach, but it's a good point for non-Calvinists to keep in mind. Thanks.

[melmichigan]

I do not want to start a completely separate thread, but will if I have to. ;)

 

Do you know (or know someone) who has done YR2 and can clue me into the trickier theological areas?

 

Has anyone put together a secular TOG yet? ;)

 

I did Y2 last year with my DD for Dialetic. Two books that I can think of off the top of my head that are assgined in the history reading are Monks and Mystics and Morning Star of the Reformation. My view is that you cannot study and understand the Middle Ages without understanding what the different religious beliefs at the time where and how they impacted history. I had my DD read all the books that were assigned in the history section, we skip the church history section. I think D is the age to be discussing the different religions of the world and understanding what their beliefs are so I had no trouble with Y2, I approached it from a historical view, not a religious view. I did do a lot more prereading than I have otherwise so that I was clear what was be presented and how before handing things to my DD. Overall I didn't have trouble adapting Y2 to meet our needs, but I did take more than 36 weeks to go through it. ;) We finished it the beginning of this school year.

[mom@shiloh]

I really wanted to love TOG and I thought I would. But, I didn't. I thought it was what I wanted since I wanted to teach all my children together, I wanted flexibility, lots of good literature, a general overall plan with room for me to tweak. I know it can be all that for many people and I'm still trying to figure out why it wasn't for me. I would lie awake at night thinking about the best way to pull this all together, when I got out the teacher's manual I could literally feel my blood pressure go up. This was my 20th year of homeschooling, so it wasn't newbie jitters!! I just started to dread it and my children weren't feelin' the love either.

 

Maybe it all just seemed too complex for me. There were lots of book choices, but it was hard to decide which ones were really necessary. We ended up with lots of books that we didn't like and didn't use. My .02.

[ktgrok]

Okay, brakes!....screech!....halt! The whole reason I am looking into this is for more structure. I always have the best of intentions, but actually writing out a plan does not seem to happen. Not something I want to face when dealing with a 6th grader and beyond.

 

What sort of planning did you have to do? It looks like it is planned out for you. :confused:

 

No, they give you a weeks worth at a time, you have to break that down somehow for each child. Plus you have to figure out how you will do vocab, read through the notes, etc. I remember I was cutting and pasting things from the DE guide to try to make worksheets or discussion questions too. It was a pain. Plus I was constantly having to move up or down with books because some were too hard, some too easy, etc. Hated it.

[WeeBeaks]

We are almost through our first full unit of TOG. I tried a unit in Y2 and failed with DE. This time we did Y3U3 and we are loving it. My difference was a printed a lot more and watched the instructional videos on planning.

 

Planning takes me probably an hour, sometimes slightly longer, but that includes math, science and everything, not just TOG. So that is as a brand new user of TOG. I have an UG/D student and one LG. It takes me another half an hour to look up and request books from the library as probably 90% of our books right now are coming from the library to keep cost and storage space issues under control. There are LOT of books, and many of them are only used a week or two. That could be a massive downside for you if your library stinks. I thought SL had a lot of books, but it is nothing compared to this.

 

I print out my book/reading list for the week (I have DE) a week or two in advance. I highlight what I already own and start looking up the rest at the two library systems I have. I put holds on what I need. I print in the call numbers of those next to the books on my list. Once I have determined what I will reasonably have for the week, I fill in the planning sheets provided on the TOG website, one for each of my students since they are not the same level. My UG/D is a super strong reader. For him, a lot of the time I will just write the book on his sheet and tell him how much he needs to have done by Friday, and let him schedule it (i.e., "read it all" or "finish half" or the page numbers). For my LG, I write what we will do each day after referencing the table of contents and glancing at the book. I used SL for years, and one thing we didn't like was tiny little chunks. I love TOG in that sense since I will schedule an entire picture book one day, the other book another day and so forth rather than a couple pages of each book each day. I already moved SL around to do that so TOG was easier on planning for me.

 

When the library has zero of the books on the primary or alternate schedule, I sub one or skip it. TOG puts the basic call number next to the book so you can walk into the library and browse nearby shelves for a sub.

 

I don't always use the worksheets TOG provides, so my subbing is not a big problem, and at LG it often doesn't require the exact book.

 

We are Catholic. I'm having zero problems with year 3, and in fact didn't have doctrine issues on the one unit of year 2 we did. But I converted as an adult and grew up in a Protestant family. I am a lot more accepting of both points of view than some Catholics or some Protestants, having lived both sides of it. I'm willing to teach both sides and discuss differences at the UG/D level, and willing to switch out books that portray either side in a severely poor light at the LG level.

 

I miss some of the SL books, the historical fiction, those tear-jerkers. I add some of those back into the TOG schedule. TOG is much much heavier on the serious, the factual, even at LG level (at least in year 3). I add back in those books we loved from SL. I take out some of the more serious for my LG.

 

The suggested read-alouds for LG through D together in the schedule I'm finding are geared more for D or UG in the unit I did. My LG hated Across Five Aprils, got next to nothing out of it. So I'm doing separate read-alouds for him.

 

For someone who heavily modified a SL schedule, TOG is about the same level of planning.

[Kertie]

We are almost through our first full unit of TOG. I tried a unit in Y2 and failed with DE. This time we did Y3U3 and we are loving it. My difference was a printed a lot more and watched the instructional videos on planning.

 

Planning takes me probably an hour, sometimes slightly longer, but that includes math, science and everything, not just TOG. So that is as a brand new user of TOG. I have an UG/D student and one LG. It takes me another half an hour to look up and request books from the library as probably 90% of our books right now are coming from the library to keep cost and storage space issues under control. There are LOT of books, and many of them are only used a week or two. That could be a massive downside for you if your library stinks. I thought SL had a lot of books, but it is nothing compared to this.

 

I print out my book/reading list for the week (I have DE) a week or two in advance. I highlight what I already own and start looking up the rest at the two library systems I have. I put holds on what I need. I print in the call numbers of those next to the books on my list. Once I have determined what I will reasonably have for the week, I fill in the planning sheets provided on the TOG website, one for each of my students since they are not the same level. My UG/D is a super strong reader. For him, a lot of the time I will just write the book on his sheet and tell him how much he needs to have done by Friday, and let him schedule it (i.e., "read it all" or "finish half" or the page numbers). For my LG, I write what we will do each day after referencing the table of contents and glancing at the book. I used SL for years, and one thing we didn't like was tiny little chunks. I love TOG in that sense since I will schedule an entire picture book one day, the other book another day and so forth rather than a couple pages of each book each day. I already moved SL around to do that so TOG was easier on planning for me.

 

When the library has zero of the books on the primary or alternate schedule, I sub one or skip it. TOG puts the basic call number next to the book so you can walk into the library and browse nearby shelves for a sub.

 

I don't always use the worksheets TOG provides, so my subbing is not a big problem, and at LG it often doesn't require the exact book.

 

We are Catholic. I'm having zero problems with year 3, and in fact didn't have doctrine issues on the one unit of year 2 we did. But I converted as an adult and grew up in a Protestant family. I am a lot more accepting of both points of view than some Catholics or some Protestants, having lived both sides of it. I'm willing to teach both sides and discuss differences at the UG/D level, and willing to switch out books that portray either side in a severely poor light at the LG level.

 

I miss some of the SL books, the historical fiction, those tear-jerkers. I add some of those back into the TOG schedule. TOG is much much heavier on the serious, the factual, even at LG level (at least in year 3). I add back in those books we loved from SL. I take out some of the more serious for my LG.

 

The suggested read-alouds for LG through D together in the schedule I'm finding are geared more for D or UG in the unit I did. My LG hated Across Five Aprils, got next to nothing out of it. So I'm doing separate read-alouds for him.

 

For someone who heavily modified a SL schedule, TOG is about the same level of planning.

 

Thanks for typing all this out--very helpful.

[Hedgehogs4]

One of the main problems in a post like this is that by the time you have read all of the posts, there are so many opinions that you can't tell what to think.

 

Here it is:

 

1. TOG is Reformed. Does that matter?

2. It takes about an hour per level to plan each week, once you get the hang of it. If you spend time in the summer ahead of time, you will probably reduce the learning curve. You will have to gauge for yourself how much extra reading you will do in order to plan effectively or lead the discussions. IMO, everything is covered very well in the teachers' notes.

3. Everything is laid out. There is a lot. Are you good at culling and paring down or are you going to feel guilty because you're not doing everything? Remember that "doing everything" is not the intention of TOG, but rather to give you options.

4. Some people find it costly. There are effective ways of saving money on this curriculum. Are you good at bargain-hunting? Do you have access to a good library?

5. Scott Somerville is an attorney. So? He knows how to defend his copyrights...I would want to be able to do that if I wrote a curriculum.

6. All students are studying the same time period. To me this is handy.

 

In all honesty, I don't think anyone can someone into or out of a thing...you probably already know what you want. Pray about your decision, then when you have peace, go forward and don't look back.

[simka2]

We are almost through our first full unit of TOG. I tried a unit in Y2 and failed with DE. This time we did Y3U3 and we are loving it. My difference was a printed a lot more and watched the instructional videos on planning.

 

Planning takes me probably an hour, sometimes slightly longer, but that includes math, science and everything, not just TOG. So that is as a brand new user of TOG. I have an UG/D student and one LG. It takes me another half an hour to look up and request books from the library as probably 90% of our books right now are coming from the library to keep cost and storage space issues under control. There are LOT of books, and many of them are only used a week or two. That could be a massive downside for you if your library stinks. I thought SL had a lot of books, but it is nothing compared to this.

 

I print out my book/reading list for the week (I have DE) a week or two in advance. I highlight what I already own and start looking up the rest at the two library systems I have. I put holds on what I need. I print in the call numbers of those next to the books on my list. Once I have determined what I will reasonably have for the week, I fill in the planning sheets provided on the TOG website, one for each of my students since they are not the same level. My UG/D is a super strong reader. For him, a lot of the time I will just write the book on his sheet and tell him how much he needs to have done by Friday, and let him schedule it (i.e., "read it all" or "finish half" or the page numbers). For my LG, I write what we will do each day after referencing the table of contents and glancing at the book. I used SL for years, and one thing we didn't like was tiny little chunks. I love TOG in that sense since I will schedule an entire picture book one day, the other book another day and so forth rather than a couple pages of each book each day. I already moved SL around to do that so TOG was easier on planning for me.

 

When the library has zero of the books on the primary or alternate schedule, I sub one or skip it. TOG puts the basic call number next to the book so you can walk into the library and browse nearby shelves for a sub.

 

I don't always use the worksheets TOG provides, so my subbing is not a big problem, and at LG it often doesn't require the exact book.

 

We are Catholic. I'm having zero problems with year 3, and in fact didn't have doctrine issues on the one unit of year 2 we did. But I converted as an adult and grew up in a Protestant family. I am a lot more accepting of both points of view than some Catholics or some Protestants, having lived both sides of it. I'm willing to teach both sides and discuss differences at the UG/D level, and willing to switch out books that portray either side in a severely poor light at the LG level.

 

I miss some of the SL books, the historical fiction, those tear-jerkers. I add some of those back into the TOG schedule. TOG is much much heavier on the serious, the factual, even at LG level (at least in year 3). I add back in those books we loved from SL. I take out some of the more serious for my LG.

 

The suggested read-alouds for LG through D together in the schedule I'm finding are geared more for D or UG in the unit I did. My LG hated Across Five Aprils, got next to nothing out of it. So I'm doing separate read-alouds for him.

 

For someone who heavily modified a SL schedule, TOG is about the same level of planning.

Very helpful! Thank you. :D

[curlylocks]

5. Scott Somerville is an attorney. So? He knows how to defend his copyrights...I would want to be able to do that if I wrote a curriculum.

 

 

 

I just want to say that what happened went beyond defending copyrights. We (VHSG co-op users) were given permission to host a virtual co-op. Then, about half-way through the school year, they changed their minds and decided we couldn't. We were told to finish the year out and then if we wanted to continue with a virtual co-op, we would have to do so at their website and pay for the "privilege". (a hefty amount I might add)

 

I just think it is wrong that they were able to "flex their muscle" and bully legitimate TOG users.

 

If being able to co-op with other TOG families isn't important to you, then please disregard. (But I think people have a right to know and make that decision for themselves.)

[ktgrok]

I forget who just said it on here, but the main thing was that it was too factual and dry and well, boring, for us. I think SL will be a better fit for us. As was SOTW.

[melmichigan]

I miss some of the SL books, the historical fiction, those tear-jerkers. I add some of those back into the TOG schedule. TOG is much much heavier on the serious, the factual, even at LG level (at least in year 3). I add back in those books we loved from SL. I take out some of the more serious for my LG.

 

For someone who heavily modified a SL schedule, TOG is about the same level of planning.

 

 

:iagree:

[DB in NJ]

Too overwhelming, too busy, too cluttered, too much!

 

I have been drawn in by the wonderful, glowing reviews of TOG over the years. Time and time again, I go to their website to look again because "I must be missing something." I mean, EVERYBODY seems to just LOVE it!

 

Nope. It's not for me. And that's ok. I'm glad those who use it and love it have found their perfect fit. It's just not my style....at all.

[woolybear]

I finally figured it out! I was a little disappointed to see that they had daily schedules in the old samples, but are now working towards just the weekly schedule. :confused: I am not sure what I prefer as I think the weekly format might give me a bit more flexibility.

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense! :001_smile:

I *think* the daily schedules were there just to give you the idea of how it could work. I don't think they actually had daily schedules as part of their plan, due to the fact that TOG is intended as a buffet (not everyone will use the same things). Therefor, it wouldn't be easily doable for them to set up daily schedules.

[Hedgehogs4]

I just want to say that what happened went beyond defending copyrights. We (VHSG co-op users) were given permission to host a virtual co-op. Then, about half-way through the school year, they changed their minds and decided we couldn't. We were told to finish the year out and then if we wanted to continue with a virtual co-op, we would have to do so at their website and pay for the "privilege". (a hefty amount I might add)

 

I just think it is wrong that they were able to "flex their muscle" and bully legitimate TOG users.

 

If being able to co-op with other TOG families isn't important to you, then please disregard. (But I think people have a right to know and make that decision for themselves.)

 

It is helpful to know more of the specifics of your situation. Thank you for sharing that. I can understand your frustration. What are they charging for the virtual co-op, if I might ask (as this is something that does interest me).

[Renaissance Mom]

If a person doesn't want heavily Reformed religion and LOTS of it, they shouldn't use TOG year 1. Many, many weeks the history is Bible, and the commentary is very Reformed.

 

We're not Calvinist but I'm familiar enough with the Bible and my own beliefs that I don't mind working with it. I can easily adapt or skip whatever doesn't really suit us. I am a little bothered by the # of weeks that Bible study is the only history studied, but overall it's a very thorough year.

 

I like TOG. I'll use it again. But it's very Reformed. I've not used year 2 yet, so I'm a little anxious to see how Catholicism is handled...

 

Very interesting. We've used all 4 year plans of TOG more than once each. We're starting our 3rd rotation with year 1 this summer. I don't agree with the above statements about it having a reformed bias. It is definitely a relatively conservative Christian curriculum. The authors are reformed protestants. We are protestant but not reformed. I've never found anything in any level that had to be reworked for us. If anything, the authors go out of their way in the teacher notes to point out where there may be doctrinal differences and to encourage the mom to be sure to present their family's views to their children. But there is nothing in the books, the worksheets, the questions, or anything else I would see as bias toward a reformed viewpoint. The fact that the authors point to the Bible for history readings in several weeks in year 1 is because the Bible is the only reliable source for those time periods. When you learn about ancient Mesopotamia, you do read about how we know what we know from other sources (archaelogical artifacts, ancient cueniform writings, etc.). Since Tapestry is an unabashedly Christian curriculum, I would certainly expect them to refer us to the Bible to then read about the history of the Hebrew people tracing Abraham to his Mesopotamian roots.

 

If you are Catholic, there is a Yahoo group of Catholic Tapestry users to help accomodate whatever tweaking is necessary.

[sharon&4boys]

:iagree:

Very interesting. We've used all 4 year plans of TOG more than once each. We're starting our 3rd rotation with year 1 this summer. I don't agree with the above statements about it having a reformed bias. It is definitely a relatively conservative Christian curriculum. The authors are reformed protestants. We are protestant but not reformed. I've never found anything in any level that had to be reworked for us. If anything, the authors go out of their way in the teacher notes to point out where there may be doctrinal differences and to encourage the mom to be sure to present their family's views to their children. But there is nothing in the books, the worksheets, the questions, or anything else I would see as bias toward a reformed viewpoint. The fact that the authors point to the Bible for history readings in several weeks in year 1 is because the Bible is the only reliable source for those time periods. When you learn about ancient Mesopotamia, you do read about how we know what we know from other sources (archaelogical artifacts, ancient cueniform writings, etc.). Since Tapestry is an unabashedly Christian curriculum, I would certainly expect them to refer us to the Bible to then read about the history of the Hebrew people tracing Abraham to his Mesopotamian roots.

 

If you are Catholic, there is a Yahoo group of Catholic Tapestry users to help accomodate whatever tweaking is necessary.

[Tracy]

Very interesting. We've used all 4 year plans of TOG more than once each. We're starting our 3rd rotation with year 1 this summer. I don't agree with the above statements about it having a reformed bias. It is definitely a relatively conservative Christian curriculum. The authors are reformed protestants. We are protestant but not reformed. I've never found anything in any level that had to be reworked for us. If anything, the authors go out of their way in the teacher notes to point out where there may be doctrinal differences and to encourage the mom to be sure to present their family's views to their children. But there is nothing in the books, the worksheets, the questions, or anything else I would see as bias toward a reformed viewpoint. The fact that the authors point to the Bible for history readings in several weeks in year 1 is because the Bible is the only reliable source for those time periods. When you learn about ancient Mesopotamia, you do read about how we know what we know from other sources (archaelogical artifacts, ancient cueniform writings, etc.). Since Tapestry is an unabashedly Christian curriculum, I would certainly expect them to refer us to the Bible to then read about the history of the Hebrew people tracing Abraham to his Mesopotamian roots.

 

If you are Catholic, there is a Yahoo group of Catholic Tapestry users to help accomodate whatever tweaking is necessary.

 

:iagree: I am neither Reformed nor Protestant, but LDS. Although I know that the authors of TOG consider us to be heretics (their words, not mine), I have found nothing like that in the curriculum (with the exception of TCOO, which I understand is equally biased against all minorities :tongue_smilie:, but that is an entirely different discussion). I thoroughly researched it for months before buying it, because of the issue of religion, and found nothing of concern then, and after almost 2 full years of using it, I have yet to find anything significantly problematic. (I think that there was a single LG book that we skipped in Year 1, but I have since found that even some Reformed folks were put off by that one.) IMO, they have been very careful to be respectful of all religions.

[justamouse]

Have you looked at Ambleside's History? You can cut/paste their schedule into word and print it out and check it off.

[KS_]

Have you looked at Ambleside's History? You can cut/paste their schedule into word and print it out and check it off.

 

I was going to ask this, too, but didn't know if you wanted to try to keep all your kids in the same history period. I have my 2 combined, but it's not laid out to have children in different grades in the same time period. However, there are weekly schedules planned out, which makes it easy to implement. And it's free :)

[simka2]

Have you looked at Ambleside's History? You can cut/paste their schedule into word and print it out and check it off.

 

Where were you yesterday!!!!!? I have been all over their website and never noticed a history lesson plan of any sort!!!

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Very interesting. We've used all 4 year plans of TOG more than once each. We're starting our 3rd rotation with year 1 this summer. I don't agree with the above statements about it having a reformed bias. It is definitely a relatively conservative Christian curriculum. The authors are reformed protestants. We are protestant but not reformed. I've never found anything in any level that had to be reworked for us. If anything, the authors go out of their way in the teacher notes to point out where there may be doctrinal differences and to encourage the mom to be sure to present their family's views to their children. But there is nothing in the books, the worksheets, the questions, or anything else I would see as bias toward a reformed viewpoint. The fact that the authors point to the Bible for history readings in several weeks in year 1 is because the Bible is the only reliable source for those time periods. When you learn about ancient Mesopotamia, you do read about how we know what we know from other sources (archaelogical artifacts, ancient cueniform writings, etc.). Since Tapestry is an unabashedly Christian curriculum, I would certainly expect them to refer us to the Bible to then read about the history of the Hebrew people tracing Abraham to his Mesopotamian roots.

 

If you are Catholic, there is a Yahoo group of Catholic Tapestry users to help accomodate whatever tweaking is necessary.

 

:iagree: I'm only one year in, but I haven't seen the extreme Reformed view.

 

I also read all this about how complicated and overwhelming it is. That just isn't true. The website can be overwhelming, I will give you that. The curriculum itself isn't. It has the appearance of being so if you have never used it or have just gone with your initial thoughts on it, but after using it, I've realized it is pretty easy to implement. I don't spend much time prepping.

[FlyingMOm]

:iagree: I'm only one year in, but I haven't seen the extreme Reformed view.

 

I also read all this about how complicated and overwhelming it is. That just isn't true. The website can be overwhelming, I will give you that. The curriculum itself isn't. It has the appearance of being so if you have never used it or have just gone with your initial thoughts on it, but after using it, I've realized it is pretty easy to implement. I don't spend much time prepping.

 

 

:iagree: with both of the above points. I am a strong Arminian and have had no problems with Tapestry (we are finishing up our 3rd year). I also am always :confused::confused::confused: that Tapestry gets a bad rep as far as planning- it is so easy to plan with Tapestry!

[Mommyfaithe]

Too overwhelming, too busy, too cluttered, too much!

 

I have been drawn in by the wonderful, glowing reviews of TOG over the years. Time and time again, I go to their website to look again because "I must be missing something." I mean, EVERYBODY seems to just LOVE it!

 

Nope. It's not for me. And that's ok. I'm glad those who use it and love it have found their perfect fit. It's just not my style....at all.

 

:iagree::iagree:

Unfortunately, it took me buying it 3 TIMES!!!!! Before I figured it out. Some of us are slow on the uptake:D

 

:tongue_smilie:

Faithe

[KS_]

Where were you yesterday!!!!!? I have been all over their website and never noticed a history lesson plan of any sort!!!

 

If you look under the individual years, you'll see their history outline for that year. And there are other links (and Yahoo groups) that have the yearly plans scheduled out into weekly sections.

[simka2]

Very interesting. We've used all 4 year plans of TOG more than once each. We're starting our 3rd rotation with year 1 this summer. I don't agree with the above statements about it having a reformed bias. It is definitely a relatively conservative Christian curriculum. The authors are reformed protestants. We are protestant but not reformed. I've never found anything in any level that had to be reworked for us. If anything, the authors go out of their way in the teacher notes to point out where there may be doctrinal differences and to encourage the mom to be sure to present their family's views to their children. But there is nothing in the books, the worksheets, the questions, or anything else I would see as bias toward a reformed viewpoint. The fact that the authors point to the Bible for history readings in several weeks in year 1 is because the Bible is the only reliable source for those time periods. When you learn about ancient Mesopotamia, you do read about how we know what we know from other sources (archaelogical artifacts, ancient cueniform writings, etc.). Since Tapestry is an unabashedly Christian curriculum, I would certainly expect them to refer us to the Bible to then read about the history of the Hebrew people tracing Abraham to his Mesopotamian roots.

 

If you are Catholic, there is a Yahoo group of Catholic Tapestry users to help accomodate whatever tweaking is necessary.

 

I have gone over the 3-week sample of yr1 and I have decided to purchase try yr2u1.

 

I also read through the three week sample three years ago and have that memory clearly etched in my mind. What I will say is this: They have done a remarkable job of neutralizing the extreme Reformed slant. The three week sample I read three years ago to the one I read a few days ago are vastly different. The sample did still mention "special grace" in both the rhetoric level and the teachers notes. Here is a link to "special grace" it is a decidedly reformed concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_grace#Contrasted_with_special_grace That said, it only refrenced special grace, and did not go into a huge explanation of it. :D

 

I just read through week1 of Y2U1 with a fine tooth comb. One thing I was thrilled to see (and had not seen on the Bookshelf) was the use of Church History in Plain Language as the church history spine. This was the book we used in an Arminianism based Seminary. There are only a couple things in week one that caught my eye and both are in the teachers notes, very easy for me to edit out or change according to my understanding.

 

One was a description on Augustine's beliefs on Sin and Grace and describes his views and then states how, "This belief forms part of a doctrine called predestination or election." Again, this is not entirely untrue, but I see it as laying a particular theological foundation.

 

Towards the very end of the week in the Supplement section it asks questions about, Why study history? In that section it asks a series of questions that are interesting. They are about the destinies of various nations and whether God predestines the fate of nations, but not the fate of individuals.

 

All of that is said so I can say this: I am rather impressed with the effort they have gone to, to make the gist of this program rigorous, indepth, and relatively easy to use by the average Christian. I can tell (after reading the questions on Rome, Pope, and Catholisim) that they have quite possibly consulted with someone who is RC or really done their homework. It sounds like the authors and contributors have been working diligently to provide a curriculum that can be used by all Christians. The authors are Reformed and I have no problem with some of that coming out...especially in the teachers notes, rhetoric level, and supplements.

 

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have only read through a grand total of 5 weeks! ;)

[justamouse]

Where were you yesterday!!!!!? I have been all over their website and never noticed a history lesson plan of any sort!!!

 

If you look under the individual years, you'll see their history outline for that year. And there are other links (and Yahoo groups) that have the yearly plans scheduled out into weekly sections.

 

What she said. :001_smile:

[Kathryn]

I have gone over the 3-week sample of yr1 and I have decided to purchase try yr2u1.

 

I also read through the three week sample three years ago and have that memory clearly etched in my mind. What I will say is this: They have done a remarkable job of neutralizing the extreme Reformed slant. The three week sample I read three years ago to the one I read a few days ago are vastly different. The sample did still mention "special grace" in both the rhetoric level and the teachers notes. Here is a link to "special grace" it is a decidedly reformed concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_grace#Contrasted_with_special_grace That said, it only refrenced special grace, and did not go into a huge explanation of it. :D

 

I just read through week1 of Y2U1 with a fine tooth comb. One thing I was thrilled to see (and had not seen on the Bookshelf) was the use of Church History in Plain Language as the church history spine. This was the book we used in an Arminianism based Seminary. There are only a couple things in week one that caught my eye and both are in the teachers notes, very easy for me to edit out or change according to my understanding.

 

One was a description on Augustine's beliefs on Sin and Grace and describes his views and then states how, "This belief forms part of a doctrine called predestination or election." Again, this is not entirely untrue, but I see it as laying a particular theological foundation.

 

Towards the very end of the week in the Supplement section it asks questions about, Why study history? In that section it asks a series of questions that are interesting. They are about the destinies of various nations and whether God predestines the fate of nations, but not the fate of individuals.

 

All of that is said so I can say this: I am rather impressed with the effort they have gone to, to make the gist of this program rigorous, indepth, and relatively easy to use by the average Christian. I can tell (after reading the questions on Rome, Pope, and Catholisim) that they have quite possibly consulted with someone who is RC or really done their homework. It sounds like the authors and contributors have been working diligently to provide a curriculum that can be used by all Christians. The authors are Reformed and I have no problem with some of that coming out...especially in the teachers notes, rhetoric level, and supplements.

 

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have only read through a grand total of 5 weeks! ;)

 

Thank you for this. I've been doing a lot of reading over the last week about TOG and downloaded the DE three-week sample, which has given me access to a lot more information than I previously had. I'm reading the introduction to Year 1 right now and she makes it clear that they have tried very hard to make this into a program that pretty much all Protestants can use without too much tweaking, and that though they're not as familiar with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, they hope to appeal to those users as well and offer space on their forums to discuss alternate resources for those groups. After the reading I've done recently, it makes me wonder how many of those who talk about the heavy Reformed slant looked at older versions.

 

I think I'm ready to commit to doing TOG next year. I only wish I could go ahead and buy, but since I'm planning on starting with Y1, and that's currently being reworked and due next month, I figured I'd wait since I want Print+DE.

[HappyCrazyMama]

I have gone over the 3-week sample of yr1 and I have decided to purchase try yr2u1.

 

I also read through the three week sample three years ago and have that memory clearly etched in my mind. What I will say is this: They have done a remarkable job of neutralizing the extreme Reformed slant. The three week sample I read three years ago to the one I read a few days ago are vastly different. The sample did still mention "special grace" in both the rhetoric level and the teachers notes. Here is a link to "special grace" it is a decidedly reformed concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_grace#Contrasted_with_special_grace That said, it only refrenced special grace, and did not go into a huge explanation of it. :D

 

I just read through week1 of Y2U1 with a fine tooth comb. One thing I was thrilled to see (and had not seen on the Bookshelf) was the use of Church History in Plain Language as the church history spine. This was the book we used in an Arminianism based Seminary. There are only a couple things in week one that caught my eye and both are in the teachers notes, very easy for me to edit out or change according to my understanding.

 

One was a description on Augustine's beliefs on Sin and Grace and describes his views and then states how, "This belief forms part of a doctrine called predestination or election." Again, this is not entirely untrue, but I see it as laying a particular theological foundation.

 

Towards the very end of the week in the Supplement section it asks questions about, Why study history? In that section it asks a series of questions that are interesting. They are about the destinies of various nations and whether God predestines the fate of nations, but not the fate of individuals.

 

All of that is said so I can say this: I am rather impressed with the effort they have gone to, to make the gist of this program rigorous, indepth, and relatively easy to use by the average Christian. I can tell (after reading the questions on Rome, Pope, and Catholisim) that they have quite possibly consulted with someone who is RC or really done their homework. It sounds like the authors and contributors have been working diligently to provide a curriculum that can be used by all Christians. The authors are Reformed and I have no problem with some of that coming out...especially in the teachers notes, rhetoric level, and supplements.

 

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have only read through a grand total of 5 weeks! ;)

 

This is good to know, I will be stalking your use of TOG.:) I always have a SL/TOG war going on in my brain and homeschool and having used them both the battle continues to rage. I used TOG classic for 4 years and then Y1 DE for our last year of TOG. Then my oldest two were done.:( :confused: But 9 years after those children were born I had 4 more who are currently 9, 7, 5, and 2. I switched to SL for them because I have always been pulled toward it and it was now or never but I don't think I will be able to pull it off forever. I already have decided I can't combine my my 9 & 7 year old with SL because my 7 yo is in la, la land and it all goes over her head so I'm already looking at 2 cores. I was worried about TOG's reformed slant being too heavy but I really couldn't remember details (I don't know what is wrong with my brain) and I was fully evangelical at the time so anything I would be concerned about now wasn't even on my radar then and since most of my TOG usage was the Classic I see that it may have really changed as well. All that to say, I'll be watching you.:D

[simka2]

Thank you for this. I've been doing a lot of reading over the last week about TOG and downloaded the DE three-week sample, which has given me access to a lot more information than I previously had. I'm reading the introduction to Year 1 right now and she makes it clear that they have tried very hard to make this into a program that pretty much all Protestants can use without too much tweaking, and that though they're not as familiar with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, they hope to appeal to those users as well and offer space on their forums to discuss alternate resources for those groups. After the reading I've done recently, it makes me wonder how many of those who talk about the heavy Reformed slant looked at older versions.

 

I think I'm ready to commit to doing TOG next year. I only wish I could go ahead and buy, but since I'm planning on starting with Y1, and that's currently being reworked and due next month, I figured I'd wait since I want Print+DE.

I will tell you a funny about when I printed the sample a few years ago....I threw it across the room! Not my best moment!!! I now wish I had kept it so I could do a more thorough comparison. It came at a point in my life when DH's reformed grandparents were being very ugly with us and I was reading everything I could on the Post-modern church.

 

A lot has changed and becoming Orthodox has mellowed me out (and provided a lot of theologic healing).

[simka2]

This is good to know, I will be stalking your use of TOG.:) I always have a SL/TOG war going on in my brain and homeschool and having used them both the battle continues to rage. I used TOG classic for 4 years and then Y1 DE for our last year of TOG. Then my oldest two were done.:( :confused: But 9 years after those children were born I had 4 more who are currently 9, 7, 5, and 2. I switched to SL for them because I have always been pulled toward it and it was now or never but I don't think I will be able to pull it off forever. I already have decided I can't combine my my 9 & 7 year old with SL because my 7 yo is in la, la land and it all goes over her head so I'm already looking at 2 cores. I was worried about TOG's reformed slant being too heavy but I really couldn't remember details (I don't know what is wrong with my brain) and I was fully evangelical at the time so anything I would be concerned about now wasn't even on my radar then and since most of my TOG usage was the Classic I see that it may have really changed as well. All that to say, I'll be watching you.:D

If my kids were a bit younger I would probably be leaning a bit more towards SL.

 

If this does not work out for us, it will be full TWTM/Good Books style for highschool. Omni is completely out of the question for my family.

[sharon&4boys]

I have gone over the 3-week sample of yr1 and I have decided to purchase try yr2u1....

 

All of that is said so I can say this: I am rather impressed with the effort they have gone to, to make the gist of this program rigorous, indepth, and relatively easy to use by the average Christian. I can tell (after reading the questions on Rome, Pope, and Catholisim) that they have quite possibly consulted with someone who is RC or really done their homework. It sounds like the authors and contributors have been working diligently to provide a curriculum that can be used by all Christians. The authors are Reformed and I have no problem with some of that coming out...especially in the teachers notes, rhetoric level, and supplements.

 

 

Simka, I think this was what I was trying to say before, but maybe I didn't express myself in the best way. I feel that one of the greatest things about TOG is that is is such a rigorous history curriculum, it can take you & your children all the way through high school - and I venture to say that, if you plan to carry through fairly extensively with TOG, your children will receive a better humanities education in high school than I had after taking two semesters of Western Civilization in college.

 

Since my own oldest son is leaning heavily toward math and science, and this may be his only chance to get a really good foundation in the humanities, history, philosophy, literature, and western civ, I am extremely thankful for it. I'm excited that I get to be the vehicle to help him, and that there was such a thing as TOG out there when I needed it. I certainly couldn't have put all of this together on my own. But I knew we wanted it, and when I found it, I jumped on it. I have not regretted it and I don't think you will either. You seem like a real thinker who is willing to put in a lot of work to give your kids a thoughtful education.

 

I am confident that you will be able to adjust TOG's theological perspective to fit your own tradition. I have been exposed to lots of things about Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy that I didn't understand before (mostly relating to history of the middle ages during TOG Y2). I still don't have a complete theological understanding of them, but that isn't really what this curriculum is about. It's about the history, and you as a parent can make it as theologically rich as you like for your children using your own training and knowledge.

 

Thanks for a great thread - I've enjoyed following it.

 

Blessings,

Sharon

[SophiaH]

If this does not work out for us, it will be full TWTM/Good Books style for highschool. Omni is completely out of the question for my family.

 

With my oldest going into 5th next year, and trying to create some sort of long-range vision & plan, this is where I've found myself as well. (And I also agree with your earlier assessment about Ages of Grace, although I will probably use parts of it like the hymn study and readings from the Prologue once we finish Garden of the Theotokos.)

[simka2]

Simka, I think this was what I was trying to say before, but maybe I didn't express myself in the best way. I feel that one of the greatest things about TOG is that is is such a rigorous history curriculum, it can take you & your children all the way through high school - and I venture to say that, if you plan to carry through fairly extensively with TOG, your children will receive a better humanities education in high school than I had after taking two semesters of Western Civilization in college.

 

Since my own oldest son is leaning heavily toward math and science, and this may be his only chance to get a really good foundation in the humanities, history, philosophy, literature, and western civ, I am extremely thankful for it. I'm excited that I get to be the vehicle to help him, and that there was such a thing as TOG out there when I needed it. I certainly couldn't have put all of this together on my own. But I knew we wanted it, and when I found it, I jumped on it. I have not regretted it and I don't think you will either. You seem like a real thinker who is willing to put in a lot of work to give your kids a thoughtful education.

 

I am confident that you will be able to adjust TOG's theological perspective to fit your own tradition. I have been exposed to lots of things about Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy that I didn't understand before (mostly relating to history of the middle ages during TOG Y2). I still don't have a complete theological understanding of them, but that isn't really what this curriculum is about. It's about the history, and you as a parent can make it as theologically rich as you like for your children using your own training and knowledge.

 

Thanks for a great thread - I've enjoyed following it.

 

Blessings,

Sharon

Not a problem! This is just an FYI and said with a wink and smile. In your first post you said, "If you consider yourself a Bible believing christian."

 

It is that term "Bible believing" that can be a bit triggersome. As Orthodox, I am very Bible-believing, but I also believe that the tradition that gave us the Bible has to be as holy or holier than the scriptures themselves. This means I believe in scripture, because of Tradition...not Sola Scriptura.

 

Anyway, often times (not saying you were saying this) when someone says "Bible believing" they are making a distinction between those of us who consider ourselves christians, but are not sola scriptura. Again, I think you may have just stepped into a catch phrase that was loaded with more meaning than you were intending. ;)

 

Hope that made sense! :grouphug:

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I am confident that you will be able to adjust TOG's theological perspective to fit your own tradition. I have been exposed to lots of things about Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy that I didn't understand before (mostly relating to history of the middle ages during TOG Y2). I still don't have a complete theological understanding of them, but that isn't really what this curriculum is about. It's about the history, and you as a parent can make it as theologically rich as you like for your children using your own training and knowledge.

 

Thanks for a great thread - I've enjoyed following it.

 

Blessings,

Sharon

 

 

This is how I feel as well. Just the church history on the dialectic level has helped me get a better understanding!! I really didn't understand Orthodoxy until I delved into it when we studied that portion of the Middle Ages.

 

I find myself in a weird place, though. I would not consider myself Reformed, but after reading the Bible with a clearer view of Church History, I wind up finding many of the extreme Armenian teachings that I grew up with to be heresies (the teachings combined with the fruit thereof), but I can't go all out Reformed/Calvinist either, Biblically speaking. I don't even know what that would make me. Half of a Tulip? :lol:

[sharon&4boys]

Not a problem! This is just an FYI and said with a wink and smile. In your first post you said, "If you consider yourself a Bible believing christian."

 

It is that term "Bible believing" that can be a bit triggersome. As Orthodox, I am very Bible-believing, but I also believe that the tradition that gave us the Bible has to be as holy or holier than the scriptures themselves. This means I believe in scripture, because of Tradition...not Sola Scriptura.

 

Anyway, often times (not saying you were saying this) when someone says "Bible believing" they are making a distinction between those of us who consider ourselves christians, but are not sola scriptura. Again, I think you may have just stepped into a catch phrase that was loaded with more meaning than you were intending. ;)

 

Hope that made sense! :grouphug:

 

Yes, and thank you for the clarification. I was chastised rather harshly by another forum user, and it was not a very warm welcome into the forum community. You are correct that I did not understand that I was using a catch phrase. Although I personally do believe in "sola scriptura," I also believe that God may be bigger than my own understanding. I would never presume that those in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions cannot be true believers in Christ or true Christians. I can understand why the other poster may have been upset if she thought I meant that.

 

Nevertheless, she was unkind and reprimanded me in a way that I felt was unwarranted (even referring to "St. Paul" as though I was violating something that he taught, although she did not say what that was.) I hope to avoid that kind of unpleasant interaction in the future. I appreciate you reaching out to me because we'll be in this TOG community together, and I really want to be on good terms with everyone!

 

I'll be thinking of you in your adjustment to the new curriculum. Let us know how it's going!

 

Sharon