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Talk me out of it! TOG


simka2
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In my search for my structure for our homeschooling journey, I am leaning heavily towards TOG. I am almost ready to press the purchase button on ONE unit...to start. :D

 

Before I do, please talk me out of it. If you have tried it and it didn't work can you tell me why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

........okay, if you love it you can share too! :D

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pretty sure it has a fairly large sample for you to try prior to purchasing. I downloaded the sample and didn't even use it one day because I wasn't interested in that form of learning for my kids.

 

No luck, I cannot get the sample for the year I want. I have read through the 3-week at length though. ;)

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I love TOG. It was exactly what we were looking for. I won't be the one to talk you out of it. :001_smile:

 

Flexible, in-depth, good for individuals or co-ops, buy once, use for 12 years (except the different books for the reading choices, of course)...I think it's great.

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I don't use TOG so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure their Protestant persuasion infiltrates the curriculum quite thoroughly.

 

If a person doesn't want heavily Reformed religion and LOTS of it, they shouldn't use TOG year 1. Many, many weeks the history is Bible, and the commentary is very Reformed.

 

We're not Calvinist but I'm familiar enough with the Bible and my own beliefs that I don't mind working with it. I can easily adapt or skip whatever doesn't really suit us. I am a little bothered by the # of weeks that Bible study is the only history studied, but overall it's a very thorough year.

 

I like TOG. I'll use it again. But it's very Reformed. I've not used year 2 yet, so I'm a little anxious to see how Catholicism is handled...

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that being said, it was not for us. Mainly all the planning. I normally love to plan things so I thought it would be a joy for me, but as the school year went on I began dreading all the planning.

 

I realized for us that I was spending so much time worrying over whether I was doing enough or should I do more. It turned out that my children weren't loving it enough for me to justify all the time and worry that it was costing me.

I also went WAY overboard buying/borrowing books and I took way too much on with it. I think had I gone lighter we all would have liked it more.

 

It was also our 8th year to home school and in my mind I compared it to other things we had done that we liked much better.

 

Great program......just not for us.....not to say that you won't love it. :001_wub:

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Well, I tried the first unit of year one and hated it. Too much reading of fairly boring stuff, way too much planning for me, just too much everything. My son didn't like it at all. We switched to SOTW, Kingfisher Encyclopedia, random library books and documentaries, and historical fiction. Much happier. Next year I don't want to plan so I'm using Sonlight.

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If a person doesn't want heavily Reformed religion and LOTS of it, they shouldn't use TOG year 1. Many, many weeks the history is Bible, and the commentary is very Reformed.

 

We're not Calvinist but I'm familiar enough with the Bible and my own beliefs that I don't mind working with it. I can easily adapt or skip whatever doesn't really suit us. I am a little bothered by the # of weeks that Bible study is the only history studied, but overall it's a very thorough year.

 

I like TOG. I'll use it again. But it's very Reformed. I've not used year 2 yet, so I'm a little anxious to see how Catholicism is handled...

 

I second this observation. I couldn't use the first year that I bought. I also felt kind of cheated because the three week download didn't reflect the shear AMOUT of bible reading that is included as history study in their year 1 program. Don't go there with year 1 unless you line up with them religiously.

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If a person doesn't want heavily Reformed religion and LOTS of it, they shouldn't use TOG year 1. Many, many weeks the history is Bible, and the commentary is very Reformed.

 

We're not Calvinist but I'm familiar enough with the Bible and my own beliefs that I don't mind working with it. I can easily adapt or skip whatever doesn't really suit us. I am a little bothered by the # of weeks that Bible study is the only history studied, but overall it's a very thorough year.

 

I like TOG. I'll use it again. But it's very Reformed. I've not used year 2 yet, so I'm a little anxious to see how Catholicism is handled...

 

What exactly does Reformed mean? Anything coming from the Protestant Reformation?

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Simka,

 

What are the ages/grades of your kids?

 

11, 10, 10, 7. :D

 

I don't use TOG so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure their Protestant persuasion infiltrates the curriculum quite thoroughly.

I looked into it 3 years ago and wouldn't consider it because of how the Reformed theology was woven throughout. There really was no way to avoid it, and I was in a rather anti-theology place in life. ;) That said, it looks like they have cleaned things up a bit. I only saw the more specific theology issues in the teachers notes and at the rhetoric level. It is something that is very much so on my radar!

 

If a person doesn't want heavily Reformed religion and LOTS of it, they shouldn't use TOG year 1. Many, many weeks the history is Bible, and the commentary is very Reformed.

 

We're not Calvinist but I'm familiar enough with the Bible and my own beliefs that I don't mind working with it. I can easily adapt or skip whatever doesn't really suit us. I am a little bothered by the # of weeks that Bible study is the only history studied, but overall it's a very thorough year.

 

I like TOG. I'll use it again. But it's very Reformed. I've not used year 2 yet, so I'm a little anxious to see how Catholicism is handled...

This is where I would have to jump in. Nothing like sink or swim right? :tongue_smilie: I have a Church History book from an Orthodox perspective that I can substitute with if needed.

 

that being said, it was not for us. Mainly all the planning. I normally love to plan things so I thought it would be a joy for me, but as the school year went on I began dreading all the planning.

 

I realized for us that I was spending so much time worrying over whether I was doing enough or should I do more. It turned out that my children weren't loving it enough for me to justify all the time and worry that it was costing me.

I also went WAY overboard buying/borrowing books and I took way too much on with it. I think had I gone lighter we all would have liked it more.

 

It was also our 8th year to home school and in my mind I compared it to other things we had done that we liked much better.

 

Great program......just not for us.....not to say that you won't love it. :001_wub:

 

Well, I tried the first unit of year one and hated it. Too much reading of fairly boring stuff, way too much planning for me, just too much everything. My son didn't like it at all. We switched to SOTW, Kingfisher Encyclopedia, random library books and documentaries, and historical fiction. Much happier. Next year I don't want to plan so I'm using Sonlight.

 

Okay, brakes!....screech!....halt! The whole reason I am looking into this is for more structure. I always have the best of intentions, but actually writing out a plan does not seem to happen. Not something I want to face when dealing with a 6th grader and beyond.

 

What sort of planning did you have to do? It looks like it is planned out for you. :confused:

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My major complaint is not with the curriculum, but with the company.

 

They are like the "intellectual property police"...Mr. Somerville is a lawyer and they aren't afraid to throw their weight around...enough said. ;)

 

Wow. Actually, that's not quite 'enough said' after such an accusation! What did they do, exactly?

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What exactly does Reformed mean? Anything coming from the Protestant Reformation?

 

Google TULIP and reformed (Calvinism) theology then contrast it with Arminiansim. When reading through the sample I did notice a reference to "special grace" in the teachers notes. This is a Reformed specific idea.

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Wow. Actually, that's not quite 'enough said' after such an accusation! What did they do, exactly?

 

They shut down the virtual TOG co-op groups that were "meeting" at Virtual Homeschool Group. They mandated that all virtual co-ops would "meet" at Lampstand Learning Center...their group. :glare:

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11, 10, 10, 7. :D

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, brakes!....screech!....halt! The whole reason I am looking into this is for more structure. I always have the best of intentions, but actually writing out a plan does not seem to happen. Not something I want to face when dealing with a 6th grader and beyond.

 

What sort of planning did you have to do? It looks like it is planned out for you. :confused:

 

I think the planning comes in selecting the books that you'd like to use and then scheduling them, as well as deciding what activities you are or aren't going to do and planning accordingly.

 

If you like the idea of TOG but want more structure, would you consider SL?

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They shut down the virtual TOG co-op groups that were "meeting" at Virtual Homeschool Group. They mandated that all virtual co-ops would "meet" at Lampstand Learning Center...their group. :glare:

 

Why?? Oh, I'm guessing so that nobody who hadn't paid for a TOG manual would be able to catch a glimpse of a TOG manual?

 

Does any other company restrict people using the material with others who may or may not be customers? Sounds stingy, but I have zero clue what the law allows for virtual groups.

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Why?? Oh, I'm guessing so that nobody who hadn't paid for a TOG manual would be able to catch a glimpse of a TOG manual?

 

Does any other company restrict people using the material with others who may or may not be customers? Sounds stingy, but I have zero clue what the law allows for virtual groups.

 

We're not sure why...we just "backed down" when they started threatening the group owner with a lawsuit if the group continued after that school year.

 

Those of us that joined the TOG VHSGs had to PROVE that we owned a copy of the appropriate TOG year plan.

 

I can't speak to what other companies allow...I only know that Apologia had/has no problem with virtual co-ops.

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I think the planning comes in selecting the books that you'd like to use and then scheduling them, as well as deciding what activities you are or aren't going to do and planning accordingly.

 

If you like the idea of TOG but want more structure, would you consider SL?

 

 

SL is something I took a really long look at. What drew me towards TOG was the structure. Having all the kids in the same time frame, access to the test and quality map aides, vocab and writing included.

 

Honestly it SEEMED like TOG was going to be MORE laid out and structured when I compared it to SL. :confused:

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SL is something I took a really long look at. What drew me towards TOG was the structure. Having all the kids in the same time frame, access to the test and quality map aides, vocab and writing included.

 

Honestly it SEEMED like TOG was going to be MORE laid out and structured when I compared it to SL. :confused:

 

All the things you mention are what make TOG a good curriculum.

 

The structure is a little different than SL in that TOG plans are weekly...so you still have to break it down into daily "bites". (whereas SL is already broken down into daily lessons)

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Google TULIP and reformed (Calvinism) theology then contrast it with Arminiansim. When reading through the sample I did notice a reference to "special grace" in the teachers notes. This is a Reformed specific idea.

 

Thank you.

 

So "reformed" refers specifically to Calvinism? And how is this reflected in TOG Redesigned?

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All the things you mention are what make TOG a good curriculum.

 

The structure is a little different than SL in that TOG plans are weekly...so you still have to break it down into daily "bites". (whereas SL is already broken down into daily lessons)

Here's a question: Since it broken down weekly do you think I would have an easier time supplementing different books? or would that just totally defeat the purpose? I am mainly thinking of the LG level as there were some books I would like to add in or possibly remove.

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I love TOG. It was exactly what we were looking for. I won't be the one to talk you out of it. :001_smile:

 

Flexible, in-depth, good for individuals or co-ops, buy once, use for 12 years (except the different books for the reading choices, of course)...I think it's great.

 

 

Ditto! See my post in your other thread about books. I hope something helps you make your decision.

 

Sharon in Ostrander, OH

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Here's a question: Since it broken down weekly do you think I would have an easier time supplementing different books? or would that just totally defeat the purpose? I am mainly thinking of the LG level as there were some books I would like to add in or possibly remove.

 

 

You can use any different books you want. It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. There is all the flexibility you need - you're not compelled to use any particular book (although some of the Q & A worksheets, and some of the discussion notes, will be geared to cover information from specific books). A lot of times you can substitute another resource on the same time period with fine results.

 

I do think that, if you are a committed Bible-believing Christian, you won't have a lot of problems with the theology expressed in the teacher's notes. However, if you don't consider yourself to be that, you should take a closer look at it before you buy (or be prepared to review thoroughly once you get it, and send back if you're not happy). The Christian perspective is woven throughout, and I know if I were not coming from that angle, it would probably bother me. I would have a hard time trusting the rest, while disagreeing with the authors in such a fundamental way. Just my thoughts, FWIW.

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I have the last unit of YR 3 and the first 2 of YR 4. I wouldn't bother with TOG for lower grammar. I don't like the worksheets at all. I did like the discussion questions/literature questions for both Dialectic and Rhetoric. I also love the philosophy play for Rhetoric.

I don't know at all about YR 2.

 

Could you do Year 2 and just have the 7yo do SOTW 2 with the AG, separate from the other kids? It's not like they'd be using the same spine, anyway. (Although they could--at least, in Yr 3 and 4, you can use SOTW, but I wouldn't for logic stage, and I don't know if they do in Yr2.)

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SL is something I took a really long look at. What drew me towards TOG was the structure. Having all the kids in the same time frame, access to the test and quality map aides, vocab and writing included.

 

Honestly it SEEMED like TOG was going to be MORE laid out and structured when I compared it to SL. :confused:

 

Have you taken a look at Ages of Grace? I used TOG for 5 years and I consider AoG to be like Orthodox TOG.:D It doesn't look as intense as TOG but it has everyone in the same timeframe, tests, copywork (no writing though), Geography, Literature, etc. and it also has faith/Bible/saint stories. When I can't do SL anymore (to many school age kids :D) I plan to switch over completely, next year I plan to use if for our faith studies only.:) http://agesofgrace.com/2011/05/age-of-triumph-overview/

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You can use any different books you want. It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. There is all the flexibility you need - you're not compelled to use any particular book (although some of the Q & A worksheets, and some of the discussion notes, will be geared to cover information from specific books). A lot of times you can substitute another resource on the same time period with fine results.

 

I do think that, if you are a committed Bible-believing Christian, you won't have a lot of problems with the theology expressed in the teacher's notes. However, if you don't consider yourself to be that, you should take a closer look at it before you buy (or be prepared to review thoroughly once you get it, and send back if you're not happy). The Christian perspective is woven throughout, and I know if I were not coming from that angle, it would probably bother me. I would have a hard time trusting the rest, while disagreeing with the authors in such a fundamental way. Just my thoughts, FWIW.

 

Sharon, there is more than one Christian perspective. Christians can be very committed to Christ and His church, and very committed to His word, yet disagree on doctrinal issues. If you don't believe me please consult St. Paul.

 

Simka is a Christian. So am I.

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I have year 2 and SOTW year 2 and 3 and both used in it for the lower ages. It works well when you need something extra for the littles or additional book selections.

 

 

I have the last unit of YR 3 and the first 2 of YR 4. I wouldn't bother with TOG for lower grammar. I don't like the worksheets at all. I did like the discussion questions/literature questions for both Dialectic and Rhetoric. I also love the philosophy play for Rhetoric.

I don't know at all about YR 2.

 

Could you do Year 2 and just have the 7yo do SOTW 2 with the AG, separate from the other kids? It's not like they'd be using the same spine, anyway. (Although they could--at least, in Yr 3 and 4, you can use SOTW, but I wouldn't for logic stage, and I don't know if they do in Yr2.)

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I have used TOG for almost a year now and I will say it has its pros & cons. There is quite a bit of lesson planning, esp if you are using it for multiple levels (I have 2 LG, 1 UG & 1D). They do have some great videos you can watch that help with the lesson planning though and the TOG yahoo group is fabulous.

 

It is a thorough curriculum and can be as meaty as you want it to be. it can be artistic in style or heavy on the reading or both - it has a ton of choices.

 

If you want open and go then TOG might not be right. if you want lots of options and continutity across levels then TOG may be perfect for you.

 

I am looking for more open and go next year - have you looked at MFW? It is also used for multiple age groups across the same curriculum, is open & go, and is not as expensive to get all the reading material needed. (I spent a fortune on books this year since our library didnt have most of them).

 

IHTH

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Love the structure but the ability to dig deeper with all the different subjects. Music, art, history, writing (loved Writing Aids) and mapwork- it was a dream come true. The books are fabulous, the best selection of titles of any structured curriculum I found when I researched it (a couple of years ago). I would choose it again and again. I didn't find it too religious, I wanted secular materials- you can skip parts if you wish.

 

The downfall? Teaching multiple kids at different levels with the books- if you don't have a fabulous library system, it can get expensive unless you budget the cost of books in. Do not buy if you curriculum jump. Maybe someone geographically close to you uses TOG so you can see more? Or contact TOG directly for a sample of the year you want to see?

 

Good luck!

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Have you taken a look at Ages of Grace? I used TOG for 5 years and I consider AoG to be like Orthodox TOG.:D It doesn't look as intense as TOG but it has everyone in the same timeframe, tests, copywork (no writing though), Geography, Literature, etc. and it also has faith/Bible/saint stories. When I can't do SL anymore (to many school age kids :D) I plan to switch over completely, next year I plan to use if for our faith studies only.:) http://agesofgrace.com/2011/05/age-of-triumph-overview/

 

:blushing:I have AoG. Although there were parts I loved about it, it did not work for us. It is very CMish and while I appreciate that in the realm of picture study and whole books, it didn't work in regards to the tests and spines that were used.

 

Actually, some of the books we used in AoG are what I wanted to sub in at the LG level.

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I have used TOG for almost a year now and I will say it has its pros & cons. There is quite a bit of lesson planning, esp if you are using it for multiple levels (I have 2 LG, 1 UG & 1D). They do have some great videos you can watch that help with the lesson planning though and the TOG yahoo group is fabulous.

 

It is a thorough curriculum and can be as meaty as you want it to be. it can be artistic in style or heavy on the reading or both - it has a ton of choices.

 

If you want open and go then TOG might not be right. if you want lots of options and continutity across levels then TOG may be perfect for you.

 

I am looking for more open and go next year - have you looked at MFW? It is also used for multiple age groups across the same curriculum, is open & go, and is not as expensive to get all the reading material needed. (I spent a fortune on books this year since our library didnt have most of them).

 

IHTH

MFW, is one I have actually held in my hand. A friend got it for her 4 kids and then asked me to walk her through implementation. I have pretty passionate belief's about how I want the kids to learn science (not YEC) which doesn't make MFW worth it for us.

 

Thanks for thinking of me though! :D

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It is just.too.much.

 

Seriously.

 

When I pay for something, I feel the need to use it.....and there is just.too.much. I am not a good picker and chooser....so I get frustrated, back logged and end up taking an entire year to do 1/4 worth of work....with our bunny trails and our regular work in math, la, writing and Latin.

 

This is happening again with Sonlight, but I don't mind so much somehow. We will use core W for 2 years.....and somehow, I am ok with that.:D

Faithe

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I've found TOG to be a boon to our homeschooling. We substituted Didache's History of the Church for the assigned books in worldview. I also skipped or edited discussion questions that were too much, or used them as a springboard to pontificate my views to my children. There was an element of their view in the general information sheets and student pages, but it's not been too bad for me. I just comment to the children, or don't hand the sheets out. It's meant to serve me, not me the curriculum.

 

It's fairly easy to substitute books in the grammar levels. We're using SOTW as our spine and the TOG books are additional. There's also a wonderful list of alternates that I reference constantly. I don't substitute many books for the rhetoric or dialectic levels, unless the book is only used for a week or so. It saves quite a bit of planning for me to simply print out the sheets the children need and check off the books I want them to read that week. :001_smile:

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Love the structure but the ability to dig deeper with all the different subjects. Music, art, history, writing (loved Writing Aids) and mapwork- it was a dream come true. The books are fabulous, the best selection of titles of any structured curriculum I found when I researched it (a couple of years ago). I would choose it again and again. I didn't find it too religious, I wanted secular materials- you can skip parts if you wish.

 

The downfall? Teaching multiple kids at different levels with the books- if you don't have a fabulous library system, it can get expensive unless you budget the cost of books in. Do not buy if you curriculum jump. Maybe someone geographically close to you uses TOG so you can see more? Or contact TOG directly for a sample of the year you want to see?

 

Good luck!

 

Hi Jessica!! Great to see you!

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I've found TOG to be a boon to our homeschooling. We substituted Didache's History of the Church for the assigned books in worldview. I also skipped or edited discussion questions that were too much, or used them as a springboard to pontificate my views to my children. There was an element of their view in the general information sheets and student pages, but it's not been too bad for me. I just comment to the children, or don't hand the sheets out. It's meant to serve me, not me the curriculum.

 

It's fairly easy to substitute books in the grammar levels. We're using SOTW as our spine and the TOG books are additional. There's also a wonderful list of alternates that I reference constantly. I don't substitute many books for the rhetoric or dialectic levels, unless the book is only used for a week or so. It saves quite a bit of planning for me to simply print out the sheets the children need and check off the books I want them to read that week. :001_smile:

I already have this book and was thinking of subbing with it! I did finally get a bigger sample of year 2 to work for me. I do see more of the Reformish theology in the Upper levels, but I think we can do the same thing. Use them as discussion points. Most of dh's family is Dutch Reformed so it is something that I do want the children to understand.

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:blushing:I have AoG. Although there were parts I loved about it, it did not work for us. It is very CMish and while I appreciate that in the realm of picture study and whole books, it didn't work in regards to the tests and spines that were used.

 

Actually, some of the books we used in AoG are what I wanted to sub in at the LG level.

 

You know more than me then since I haven't used it yet, I was sure you must know about it. I'm not sure about the CMish stuff either and I'm not sure how long I'll stick with SL, probably until the number of cores I need to do exceeds my ability to actually do them.:)

 

I do think TOG could be problematic especially in the Reformation area and I'm not sure how you feel about the providential view of US History (I'm not sure how *I* feel about it :tongue_smilie:) but there is definitely hints of that in there. We are old-timers and used Classic BTW so perhaps that has changed with updated book choices.

 

One thing I've seen suggested on the SL forums is to check some of the books out from the library and see what you think of them.:) Again good luck!:)

Edited by Happyhomemama
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I yearned toward TOG for a long time as the ultimate history etc. curriculum, but never thought that it was really worthwhile for an only child. Finally I decided that if I wanted it that badly I should just buy it anyway and use it for a year or so, and I looked at it carefully at a conference. That decided me against it. I didn't think I would ever use it--too much heavy lifting to get it off the ground. Now, I'm more a 'do the next thing and think very strategically about once a quarter' type homeschooler, so YMMV. But the set up challenges were so significant that they became a barrier to entry for me.

 

It kind of reminded me of the Scott Foresman language arts programs--very broad, each lesson had tons of options, hard to focus in on what you really needed or should want.

 

Other things in that category for me include WRTR and learning a foreign language or music theory so that I could teach them. I was pretty sure that I just never would have done those things. And I never wanted to be hemmed in by a day by day all in one program like Sonlight either, much as I like Sonlight.

 

By contrast, integrating Bible, SOTW, and AG reading recs was a joy. I can't honestly say that that was any easier (in fact, many would think that harder), but it was easier and far more natural and enjoyable FOR ME. And after taking the StewardShip workshop in designing your own unit studies and lapbooks, I did that a couple of times as well. And starting a literature group for middle schoolers seemed pretty easy and natural, too.

 

(I am telling you all that to convey what kind of homeschooler I am so that you can see whether you're likely to feel the same.)

 

In any case, I strongly encourage you to look at TOG thoroughly before making a final commitment to it. It's a big investment, and one that you might regret if it doesn't work out. Having said that, some people use it for self-study, and feel like the investment it worthwhile just for that, so that they can teach SOTW or another curriculum better and in more depth. (I feel like that about LLLOTR, which I bought enthusiastically, did not use much, but don't regret at all.)

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I was thinking about using it also but decided against it because I read entirely too many posts showing how time consuming it was to plan. I don't understand how it can have full lesson plans and people still planning.:confused: Also, people say that you buy it once and all you have to worry about is the books..but people say that they spend $1,200 per year on books!!!:001_huh: That is a very large sum of money. I spend about $200 a year on all subject right now and my husband's jaw dropped when I told him the cost of a year of TOG. Next, I am catholic so I was told to skip volume 1...I was most interested in teaching ancient egypt as it is my dd's favorite time period so why bother? I was also told that it is better to teach TOG to 4th graders on up...both my girls are younger.

 

I have weaver volumes 1 and 2 which I plan on using because I love how it is organized by grade. It seems to be a better fit for us.

 

Penny

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You know more than me then since I haven't used it yet, I was sure you must know about it. I'm not sure about the CMish stuff either and I'm not sure how long I'll stick with SL, probably until the number of cores I need to do exceeds my ability to actually do them.:)

 

I do think TOG could be problematic especially in the Reformation area and I'm not sure how you feel about the providential view of US History (I'm not sure how *I* feel about it :tongue_smilie:) but there is definitely hints of that in there. We are old-timers and used Classic BTW so perhaps that has changed with updated book choices.

 

I do not care for a "providential" view at all. Do I think that certain early settlers and governments could have held it...yes.

 

One thing I've seen suggested on the SL forums is to check some of the books out from the library and see what you think of them.:) Again good luck!:)

Hmmmmm, I may need to make the trek into town to see if the homeschool store has some hard copies. :glare:

 

I really wish I was a better planner and that Outlook or some other planning software didn't give me a massive headache!!! ;)

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there are people out there that "need" to plan, who will plan the most basic of curriculums to the nth degree. I don't know ANYBODY like that. (Just don't go to my trivium academy blog and look around and we'll be good.) Forgive the horrible grammar and sentence structure.

See, I just want a magic wand (think faeries on Sleeping Beauty) that I can swish towards the books shelves and out will pop beautiful, planned, organized, lesson books for each child...and a master for me!

:D

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To contradict part of my last post tho - I was able to purchase the year's books en masse for wwwaaayyyy cheaper used from current TOG users (again - the yahoo groups are great for this). And then I was able to resell the stuff I used this year and made all my money back - the books hold their value if you buy them used is what I am trying to say...

 

How awkward was that for a paragraph...you get what i mean...:tongue_smilie:

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Sharon, there is more than one Christian perspective. Christians can be very committed to Christ and His church, and very committed to His word, yet disagree on doctrinal issues. If you don't believe me please consult St. Paul.

 

Simka is a Christian. So am I.

 

 

Tibbie, it sounds as though I offended you. I just want you to know that I am genuinely sorry. I was not aware that Simka is orthodox when I posted, although I did take the time to view her blog for a few minutes before I read your post (out of curiosity, to see whether I could gain any insight to understand where she might be coming from). My heart is not judgemental toward Christians of other doctrinal persuasions. Whether I chose my wording well, or didn't - I did not mean that one had to be "reformed" to be a Bible-believing Christian.

 

I think that other readers of these posts may have understood what I meant - and maybe you could try to be more understanding next time, too, before you send a comment back (esp. when the comment was not directed to you). My post was meant to be helpful only - to point out the doctrinal leanings of the curriculum, in case that hadn't become obvious to Simka during her explorations. I was actually thinking that it might be uncomfortable for someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible to try to use TOG. I think they might have too many conflicts of opinion with the authors. I hope that clarifies where my thoughts were in making that comment. Thanks for reading.

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Tibbie, it sounds as though I offended you. I just want you to know that I am genuinely sorry. I was not aware that Simka is orthodox when I posted, although I did take the time to view her blog for a few minutes before I read your post (out of curiosity, to see whether I could gain any insight to understand where she might be coming from). My heart is not judgemental toward Christians of other doctrinal persuasions. Whether I chose my wording well, or didn't - I did not mean that one had to be "reformed" to be a Bible-believing Christian.

 

I think that other readers of these posts may have understood what I meant - and maybe you could try to be more understanding next time, too, before you send a comment back (esp. when the comment was not directed to you). My post was meant to be helpful only - to point out the doctrinal leanings of the curriculum, in case that hadn't become obvious to Simka during her explorations. I was actually thinking that it might be uncomfortable for someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible to try to use TOG. I think they might have too many conflicts of opinion with the authors. I hope that clarifies where my thoughts were in making that comment. Thanks for reading.

 

Sharon, what I saw was a comment (from you) that if you see yourself as a committed Christian you won't have any problem with this curriculum, but if you aren't a committed Christian you should look for something else. That's basically what you said, after Christians had been discussing in this thread whether TOG is appropriate for Catholic, Orthodox, or Non-Reformed believers.

 

I responded to your statement with the fact that lots of people who are committed Christians wouldn't be able to agree with the heavily Reformed perspective of TOG. Disagreeing with TOG's perspective doesn't exclude anyone from the body of Christ. Christ came first, before TOG.

 

I'm glad to hear that you are more open-minded than I first intuited about the reality of doctrinal differences among Christians.

 

I don't know what other posters thought of your post. Maybe you feel qualified to speak for them because of private messages or something, but nobody quoted your post or referred to it in this thread but me. And I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

 

A tip for message board use: If you want to make it plain to whom you are directing your comments you could utilize the quote feature, or else address the person as you did in this post. When you are just part of conversation on a thread, others might respond to what you have said.

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No luck, I cannot get the sample for the year I want. I have read through the 3-week at length though. ;)

What year did you want to look at? You can see an a sample of year 2. Even though it will be updated, I think it will give you a pretty good idea of the structure.

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