Banned from buying?

[Pink Fairy]

I see it. Make sure you have "everybody" clicked at the top right of the wall. Otherwise you only see posts from OM.

[QueenCat]

I see it. Make sure you have "everybody" clicked at the top right of the wall. Otherwise you only see posts from OM.

 

Thanks! Now I see it :). And liked your comment.

[Pink Fairy]

It wasn't me, actually. :001_smile: But I do agree with her.

[Tohru]

Wow, I'm very surprised to hear that it was Oak Meadow. I have purchased many things from them and have also spoken with their customer service people on several occasions, and have always been extremely pleased with their service. The reps were very knowledgeable, super-nice, and went out of their way to help me. They also filled my orders almost immediately and I always had my materials within days of placing my orders.

 

That said, I have never tried to return anything, so I have no idea how they would have reacted if I'd called them to tell them I wanted to send some stuff back to them. I will say, though, that on at least two occasions when I wasn't sure if I was ordering exactly what I needed, the reps made a point of telling me that I could return the materials if they weren't right for my ds.

 

I'm very sorry you were "banned." I would really like to hear more specifics about their reasoning, as well as what you returned and when, because all I can think of, is that perhaps they saw some sort of pattern in your returns that led them to believe you were copying and returning their guides. I'm not suggesting that you did anything unethical or illegal; I'm just trying to discern whether or not Oak Meadow may have had any basis for their thinking. Were the books creased or used-looking when you returned them?

 

Please don't think I'm defending Oak Meadow or placing any blame on you or your wife. I'm just trying to figure out why they wouldn't want you as a customer any more, as they aren't a gigantic multi-billion dollar company, and I would think each customer would be important to them -- particularly a repeat customer like you.

 

:iagree: to pretty much everything Catwoman said.

 

And I'm also sorry to hear that you were banned. That is horrible!

[Guest]

The books were perfect when returned. I never copied them, showed them to anyone other than my dh, scanned them, or any way took from them for my use or profit. As far as their reasoning, I have told all I was told...a bunch of legalese and refusal to restate when I asked for clarification. I feel like I am being punished for breaking a rule I didn't know but maybe it is more than just this returning thing...I don't know. I think it might be personal and unlikely to happen to anyone else. Don't care. I have a great Plan B.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Guest

[Catwoman]

The books were perfect when returned. I never copied them, showed them to anyone other than my dh, scanned them, or any way took from them for my use or profit. As far as their reasoning, I have told all I was told...a bunch of legalese and refusal to restate when I asked for clarification. I feel like I am being punished for breaking a rule I didn't know but maybe it is more than just this returning thing...I don't know. I think it might be personal and unlikely to happen to anyone else. Don't care. I have a great Plan B.

 

As I posted earlier, I have only had good experiences with Oak Meadow, but whatever their reasons were for banning you, I think the phone calls were incredibly rude and totally out of line, and I would have been upset, too. I'm very sorry you had to deal with it. :grouphug:

Edited February 28, 2012 by Catwoman

[Elizabeth in MN]

Maybe this direct link will work? - https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=369845823039554&id=150001488357323&notif_t=like

[Mergath]

I added a comment on their FB page, too. If that's their policy, it should be stated clearly on their website. And I agree that not letting anyone buy from them again is idiotic- they should just refuse any more returns if they have such a bug up their a** about it.

[Guest]

I appreciate the support from all of you. I am a little bit nervous about facebook because I am afraid they will know it is me you are referring to. So I kindly ask for you to please not post anything there.

[Mergath]

I appreciate the support from all of you. I am a little bit nervous about facebook because I am afraid they will know it is me you are referring to. So I kindly ask for you to please not post anything there.

 

But really, what are they going to do? Ban you from buying their stuff? ;) If they do anything else, it's just going to alienate their consumer base even more. So, once they realize they poked the hive, their best course of action will be to apologize to you and lift their ban.

[swellmomma]

But really, what are they going to do? Ban you from buying their stuff? ;) If they do anything else, it's just going to alienate their consumer base even more. So, once they realize they poked the hive, their best course of action will be to apologize to you and lift their ban.

 

 

Wouldn't be the first time someone learned to not poke the hive ;) Only in this case it is a company not an individual.

[Catwoman]

I appreciate the support from all of you. I am a little bit nervous about facebook because I am afraid they will know it is me you are referring to. So I kindly ask for you to please not post anything there.

 

I hope everyone honors your wishes about this, particularly because you had no intention of mentioning the company by name until we badgered you about it. When your dh posted the name of the company, he mentioned that you still didn't want to tell, so I know you still didn't want to bad-mouth anyone. I can understand why you are uncomfortable with being the center of attention in this kind of situation.

[cindergretta]

I hope everyone honors your wishes about this, particularly because you had no intention of mentioning the company by name until we badgered you about it. When your dh posted the name of the company, he mentioned that you still didn't want to tell, so I know you still didn't want to bad-mouth anyone. I can understand why you are uncomfortable with being the center of attention in this kind of situation.

 

:iagree: :grouphug: I'm sorry you are having such a rough time, OP. I would feel just as you feel - humiliated, upset, and wanting to keep my protective shell around me.

[Catwoman]

...once they realize they poked the hive, their best course of action will be to apologize to you and lift their ban.

 

I have a feeling they won't do that, because I'm sure they have an entirely different perspective on the situation.

 

Personally, I don't know how I feel about the "banning," as if the number and/or pattern of the returns was truly excessive when compared with OM's other customers, perhaps they have a reason for not wanting training5 as a customer.

 

However, that said, I think they were absolutely out of line to phone her and basically call her a liar and a thief (using different words I'm sure, but that seemed to be the gist of it.) In my mind, that's the real issue here. If they'd sent her a polite form letter telling her that in light of what they considered to be her excessive past returns, they would appreciate it if she would refrain from ordering from them in the future, it may have been a little odd, but I wouldn't have been particularly shocked or annoyed by it.

[Guest]

Exactly, Cat. You got it perfectly. I am sure the have a perfectly sound reason for this.

[roseyloxs]

I've only started researching curriculum's for next year. I won't even be considering Oak Meadow. Thanks for making my research list just a tiny bit shorter. No matter what their reasoning I don't understand how anyone could treat their customers with such a lack of respect.

 

Seems to me they should have called and asked how they could have further assisted you in picking a grade level since it's obvious you were having trouble settling on one (or two). This way they could have investigated your intentions for all the returns and maintained good customer service.

[Guest submarines]

I've only started researching curriculum's for next year. I won't even be considering Oak Meadow. Thanks for making my research list just a tiny bit shorter. No matter what their reasoning I don't understand how anyone could treat their customers with such a lack of respect.

 

Seems to me they should have called and asked how they could have further assisted you in picking a grade level since it's obvious you were having trouble settling on one (or two). This way they could have investigated your intentions for all the returns and maintained good customer service.

 

:iagree: And the OP would've been here, raving about their fanstastic customer service. A win-win situation.

[In the Rain]

Nevermind. I figured it out.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Julianna

[gingersmom]

There is also an Oak Meadow Yahoo group where there are always lots of materials for sale.

 

I have never had an issue with Oak Meadow (thankfully!) but Rainbow Resource has been nothing but rude to me. I stopped using them and switched to Christianbook.com who are so much nicer and ship lightning fast!

[goldberry]

Sorry to hear this. I have used OM materials for three years now. I had a return once, and they were helpful with it.

 

I can see they might have a concern if returns were excessive, but I think they should have discussed the issue with you rather that accusing you.

 

 

Did I miss it, or did OP ever clarify how many returns there really were?

Edited February 28, 2012 by coloradoperkins

[BatmansWife]

I've only started researching curriculum's for next year. I won't even be considering Oak Meadow. Thanks for making my research list just a tiny bit shorter. No matter what their reasoning I don't understand how anyone could treat their customers with such a lack of respect.

 

Seems to me they should have called and asked how they could have further assisted you in picking a grade level since it's obvious you were having trouble settling on one (or two). This way they could have investigated your intentions for all the returns and maintained good customer service.

 

:iagree:THIS would have been the nice and the right thing for them to have done.

 

There is also an Oak Meadow Yahoo group where there are always lots of materials for sale.

 

I have never had an issue with Oak Meadow (thankfully!) but Rainbow Resource has been nothing but rude to me. I stopped using them and switched to Christianbook.com who are so much nicer and ship lightning fast!

 

Did you have a lot of returns with Rainbow? I'm just curious why they are rude to you. I've had pretty good experience with them. In fact, recently I place a large order and got free shipping. After it arrived, I realized that I really needed a different level workbook than what I ordered (I didn't want to exchange it, I'd keep it for my youngest child). I contacted them to ask if they would be having free shipping on any size order soon (this was around Christmas....so I thought maybe)....I didn't want to pay $4 shipping on an $8 workbook. She said they weren't going to be offering any special holiday shipping. But the gal I talked to personally took my order...and had no problem with me adding several more things...and shipped them for free. I was really surprised that they did that. I thought it was awesome customer service. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Edited February 28, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[In the Rain]

 

Okay, I posted this at the Facebook page "Please update your returns policy to reflect that returning "too often" means a customer will be banned for life from buying OM products. Y'all might want to quantify how often is too often."

 

I added a comment on their FB page, too.

 

FWIW, Oak Meadow has responded to your comments.

 

Training5, it sounds like OM just wasn't a good fit for you. If you looked at it that many times and still couldn't settle on a level, the program must not fit your kids right. That is what happened to me. I am always drawn to OM, and want it to work for my kids. It didn't fit perfectly either time I tried it. Some kids just can't be squeezed into a boxed curriculum, no matter how cool the program is. KWIM?

[Pink Fairy]

Here is the fb response:

Oak Meadow Again, Oak Meadow prides itself on our outstanding customer service and we offer ample support and resources to ensure the best fit for every family. We encourage people to go to our website, where they can access our full catalogs, curriculum overviews and sample lessons for each grade and gain a better understanding of what we offer. Our Educational Counselors are always available to speak with people, answering questions, listening to stories, and offering guidance and support for people at all stages of their decision to homeschool. And finally, our return policy is very generous, and allows people to preview our curriculum for up to 30 days, and return it for a full refund if they decide it is not the right fit for their family. In this particular case, the customer had bought and returned curriculum over 18 times in three years, including the same product three times. Though we actively encourage and support families to share our curriculum as a resource (we sell seconds, work to connect families to promote 'hand-me-downs', etc.), Oak Meadow curriculum is proprietary material. When there is this kind of highly unusual purchase and return activity in an account, it does force us to consider intellectual property infringement. As a high quality school and curriculum provider, we do need to protect the integrity of our program.

 

ETA: Hee hee--they like their own reply. It cracks me up when people do that. :lol:

Edited February 28, 2012 by Mamabegood

[Pink Fairy]

Eighteen times in three years is quite a lot. I can see why a ban might be their preferred solution.

 

But I still don't think they handled it well with the accusatory phone call. A simple email with the suggestion that OM isn't a good fit for you and that they won't be filling any more orders would have been sufficient. :grouphug:

[Pink Fairy]

:iagree:THIS would have been the nice and the right thing for them to have done.

 

 

 

Did you have a lot of returns with Rainbow? I'm just curious why they are rude to you. I've had pretty good experience with them. In fact, recently I place a large order and got free shipping. After it arrived, I realized that I really needed a different level workbook than what I ordered (I didn't want to exchange it, I'd keep it for my youngest child). I contacted them to ask if they would be having free shipping on any size order soon (this was around Christmas....so I thought maybe)....I didn't want to pay $4 shipping on an $8 workbook. She said they weren't going to be offering any special holiday shipping. But the gal I talked to personally took my order...and had no problem with me adding several more things...and shipped them for free. I was really surprised that they did that. I thought it was awesome customer service. Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

From what I recall in other threads, there is a particular customer service person with an attitude who works for RR. If you are unlucky enough to get her on the phone when you call, you won't have a pleasant experience regardless of the issue.

[nukeswife]

From what I recall in other threads, there is a particular customer service person with an attitude who works for RR. If you are unlucky enough to get her on the phone when you call, you won't have a pleasant experience regardless of the issue.

 

:iagree: I've had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with said employee.

[Moxie]

Eighteen times in three years is quite a lot. I can see why a ban might be their preferred solution.

 

But I still don't think they handled it well with the accusatory phone call. A simple email with the suggestion that OM isn't a good fit for you and that they won't be filling any more orders would have been sufficient. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: 18 returns in 3 years is a return every other month, right? I can see how they could be worried. They still didn't handle it well, though.

[jentancalann]

Eighteen times in three years is quite a lot. I can see why a ban might be their preferred solution.

 

But I still don't think they handled it well with the accusatory phone call. A simple email with the suggestion that OM isn't a good fit for you and that they won't be filling any more orders would have been sufficient. :grouphug:

 

Or, as was previously stated somewhere, they should have banned her from returning, not buying. That just doesn't make good business sense.

[Shellydon]

:iagree: 18 returns in 3 years is a return every other month, right? I can see how they could be worried. They still didn't handle it well, though.

 

 

18 times. Wowzer. That is A LOT. I think they should have been MUCH more polite, but honestly, if it were my company, I would institute a ban as well. 18 times is, well, weird.

[Curly]

Or, as was previously stated somewhere, they should have banned her from returning, not buying. That just doesn't make good business sense.

 

:iagree:

[StephanieZ]

18 times in 3 years? The same material 3 times? If that is accurate, then I, personally, think OM was entirely correct in ending the business relationship.

 

Now, I am not saying OM is accurate, or that the OP truly did return that many purchases. I have no idea!

 

But, based on the OM assertion . . .

 

Businesses are allowed to choose whom they do business with, so long as they are not being discriminatory based on a protected class (race, gender, etc). They don't have to do business with you if, for some reason, they have decided that you are too much trouble to do business with.

 

Every sale costs the business time to place the order/pack/ship, then more time again on the return . . . Those folks who take the phone calls, place the orders, provide the samples, reshelve the books, update the computer inventory, answer the questions, unpack and repack boxes . . . those folks have to be paid. Damages often occur in transit (even through no fault of the purchaser or shipper) that make returned materials unsaleable or only saleable at a discount. All those labor costs are not insignificant, and are unlikely fully compensated by any unrefunded shipping charges. They are surely losing significant hard $$ with every returned sale.

 

So, IMHO, returning that many orders is abusive. Whether it is intentional theft of intellectual property or just plain irresponsible ordering, I can totally understand and support a business not wanting to do business with that purchaser anymore. They are losing money on every sale, and it has to end somewhere.

 

Just because a retailer has a generous return policy does not mean it is fair or ethical to be totally irresponsible in ordering materials over and over that you do not have a reasonable expectation of actually keeping. (And, I would assert that a history of 18 returns in 3 years including returning the same materials 3 different times . . . would be inconsistent with any reasonable expectation of keeping more materials.)

 

That said, if I were the business manager, I would have sent a carefully worded polite letter or email to the effect that we no longer would do business with them for some politely worded reasons (as others have suggested good wording for in earlier posts). Phone calls are riskier for misinterpretation and/or emotional infusion from both sides. Written communication is safer and helps protect feelings.

Edited February 28, 2012 by StephanieZ

[swellmomma]

Eighteen times in three years is quite a lot. I can see why a ban might be their preferred solution.

 

But I still don't think they handled it well with the accusatory phone call. A simple email with the suggestion that OM isn't a good fit for you and that they won't be filling any more orders would have been sufficient. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:If it were my company and that were happening I would likely either tell the customer that all sales are final for now on or that perhaps OM is not for them given the track record.

 

Calling someone at home and accusing them essentially of theft was still a bad way to go no matter how many returns.

 

BUt I 100% think they had grounds to be suspicious, they just handled it wrong.

[swellmomma]

18 times in 3 years? The same material 3 times? If that is accurate, then I, personally, think OM was entirely correct in ending the business relationship.

 

Now, I am not saying OM is accurate, or that the OP truly did return that many purchases. I have no idea!

 

But, based on the OM assertion . . .

 

Businesses are allowed to choose whom they do business with, so long as they are not being discriminatory based on a protected class (race, gender, etc). They don't have to do business with you if, for some reason, they have decided that you are too much trouble to do business with.

 

Every sale costs the business time to place the order/pack/ship, then more time again on the return . . . Those folks who take the phone calls, place the orders, provide the samples, reshelve the books, update the computer inventory, answer the questions, unpack and repack boxes . . . those folks have to be paid. Damages often occur in transit (even through no fault of the purchaser or shipper) that make returned materials unsaleable or only saleable at a discount. All those labor costs are not insignificant, and are unlikely fully compensated by any unrefunded shipping charges. They are surely losing significant hard $$ with every returned sale.

 

So, IMHO, returning that many orders is abusive. Whether it is intentional theft of intellectual property or just plain irresponsible ordering, I can totally understand and support a business not wanting to do business with that purchaser anymore. They are losing money on every sale, and it has to end somewhere.

 

Just because a retailer has a generous return policy does not mean it is fair or ethical to be totally irresponsible in ordering materials over and over that you do not have a reasonable expectation of actually keeping. (And, I would assert that a history of 18 returns in 3 years including returning the same materials 3 different times . . . would be inconsistent with any reasonable expectation of keeping more materials.)

 

That said, if I were the business manager, I would have sent a carefully worded polite letter or email to the effect that we no longer would do business with them for some politely worded reasons (as others have suggested good wording for in earlier posts). Phone calls are riskier for misinterpretation and/or emotional infusion from both sides. Written communication is safer and helps protect feelings.

 

:iagree: That said linking OM back to this thread while telling them about being trash talked doesn't make you much better than them in regards to handling things. That is just looking to stir it up here where members should feel comfortable and safe being able to vent their frustrations about dealing with a company. Shame on you.

Edited February 28, 2012 by swellmomma

[elegantlion]

Eighteen times in three years is quite a lot. I can see why a ban might be their preferred solution.

 

But I still don't think they handled it well with the accusatory phone call. A simple email with the suggestion that OM isn't a good fit for you and that they won't be filling any more orders would have been sufficient. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: If they consulted their lawyers it means they were concerned enough to proceed according to the law, and not just jump at you off the cuff. I do agree, however, that their presentation to you could have been more gracious.

 

The ban from buying or returning was probably just to not have to deal with it anymore. If they allow you to buy again, then they may have some legal responsibility to keep their refund policy in place. I mean, seriously, after 18 purchases I'm sure you know whether it's a good fit or not. They figure it is not for the OP.

 

I don't want this to turn into a bash the OP post, because I would be way upset too. I will give you kudos for your tenacity and hopeful outlook. There are some curricula I'd love to buy and look at it (can't afford to). To buy and return that many times sounds like you REALLY wanted it to work. I'd have given up long ago.

 

But I do side with Oak Meadow on this one. They may have been advised to give you a phone call. I personally think a certified letter would hold more legal weight.

[Hen]

No matter what their reasoning I don't understand how anyone could treat their customers with such a lack of respect.

 

Seems to me they should have called and asked how they could have further assisted you in picking a grade level since it's obvious you were having trouble settling on one (or two). This way they could have investigated your intentions for all the returns and maintained good customer service.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[StephanieZ]

:iagree: That said linking OM back to this thread while telling them about being trash talked doesn't make you much better than them in regards to handling things. That is just looking to stir it up here where members should feel comfortable and safe being able to vent their frustrations about dealing with a company. Shame on you.

 

Well, OM won't see it, b/c I actually deleted that fb post a few seconds ago, but b/c I didn't want my facebook profile linked to everyone here, not b/c I feel bad about it. I think it is AWFUL that OM is being trash talked here and I wish they could defend themselves. I think that if the OP actually did that many returns, and then had the gall to come trash talk them here, they should be very ashamed! I also think that all the piling-on here is shameful, and it is awful to think that an innocent business could be damaged due to unjustified trash talk here.

 

Note that the OP had several queries up thread as to just how many returns she had made, and she declined to respond to those queries, while having implied that it was a just a few returns.

 

I think trashing a business without justification in fact is unethical. And, frankly, illegal if the statements are untrue, but definitely unethical even if the poster avoids outright lies while relying in half truths.

 

These boards have power in their reach and their longevity. I think we have an obligation to stand up for the integrity of these boards by not encouraging and facilitating their use as a platform to trash innocent businesses.

[In the Rain]

Well, OM won't see it, b/c I actually deleted that fb post a few seconds ago, but b/c I didn't want my facebook profile linked to everyone here, not b/c I feel bad about it. I think it is AWFUL that OM is being trash talked here and I wish they could defend themselves. I think that if the OP actually did that many returns, and then had the gall to come trash talk them here, they should be very ashamed! I also think that all the piling-on here is shameful, and it is awful to think that an innocent business could be damaged due to unjustified trash talk here.

 

Note that the OP had several queries up thread as to just how many returns she had made, and she declined to respond to those queries, while having implied that it was a just a few returns.

 

I think trashing a business without justification in fact is unethical. And, frankly, illegal if the statements are untrue, but definitely unethical even if the poster avoids outright lies while relying in half truths.

 

These boards have power in their reach and their longevity. I think we have an obligation to stand up for the integrity of these boards by not encouraging and facilitating their use as a platform to trash innocent businesses.

 

This isn't entirely fair. I reread Training5's posts. She didn't "trash talk" them. In fact, her dh said she feels like she deserves it, and she said she could see the company's point. Either she or her husband did state that there had been 18 purchases.

 

There may be some trash talking going on, but I think it is by other posters taking up Training5's cause.