Question about Mormons and Christianity

[mommaduck]

We believe that the only way for any scripture to be correctly translated can only come through revelation from God.

 

No scholarly interpretation can compete with revelation directly from God (if you believed there were such a thing), wouldn't you agree?

 

I've also wondered why the Christian world would assume that the Bible needed scholars to fully understand the true meaning of His word. Why would you look to scholars' interpretation rather than look to God for His interpretation?

 

I understand that most Christians read the Bible and apply their personal interpretation to their understanding of the scriptures, and I think that is good.

 

It is when a leader of a church interprets the Bible according to his beliefs and tells everyone else this is how everyone should interpret it, because he knows more (he's gone to seminary, he's a scholar, or whatever), yet makes no claim to have received his interpretation from God. That is something that I do not understand.

 

Anyway, as you probably already know, we believe that the prophets and apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints receive direct revelation from God concerning the interpretation of His word and the affairs of His church on the earth today.

But I've known many people that say they have received revelation from God and yet their revelations contradict. How does the LDS resolve this? (fyi...I do have LDS relatives...thus why I'm asking)

[meggie]

But I've known many people that say they have received revelation from God and yet their revelations contradict. How does the LDS resolve this? (fyi...I do have LDS relatives...thus why I'm asking)

 

We can only receive revelation for those in our stewardship. So everyone can get personal revelation. Parents can get revelation regarding their family and children. They don't get revelation for other families. A bishop can only get revelation for his ward (congregation), not another ward. A stake president can only get revelation for those in his stake, not for those in another stake, etc. All the way up to the First Presidency and Prophet. The Prophet is the only one allowed to get revelation concerning the ENTIRE church. He is the only one who can clarify or reveal certain things.

 

For example, Jesus having a wife. Right now it's a "No official stance" kind of thing. Because we really don't know. It doesn't say he did, it doesn't say he didn't. If someone other than the prophet were to say, "X proves Jesus had a wife," it would only be considered opinion. If the Prophet were to say in Conference or with an official declaration that it has been revealed to him that Jesus had a wife, then we would accept it.

 

If some random person from the ward came up to DH and me and told us, "God told me that He wants you to X," we would dismiss it without a thought. If God wanted to tell us something, he would have told us himself. There's a very specific order to revelation and we follow it.

 

The way we tell real doctrine from opinion and false doctrine is whether it supports what the scriptures and prophet says. If it agrees with them, it's doctrine. If neither the scriptures nor prophet has said anything regarding the matter, it's just opinion. If it contradicts what the scriptures and prophet says, it's false doctrine.

[dangermom]

But I've known many people that say they have received revelation from God and yet their revelations contradict. How does the LDS resolve this? (fyi...I do have LDS relatives...thus why I'm asking)

 

Maybe it would help if I explain our concept of stewardship and revelation.

 

Every person who has been given the gift of the Holy Ghost has the right (contingent upon their repentance/keeping covenants) to receive revelation for themselves. Since God has individual plans for all of us, it makes sense to us that God would tell me to move to Chico (that happened) and someone else to live in New York or whatever.

 

Then, each of us has stewardships--things we're responsible for. As a mother I have stewardship over my children, for example. If I was in charge of the children's program at church, that would be my stewardship too, so I would look for revelation on how I could best run that program and teach the children. I have a bit of stewardship for the sisters that I visit teach--I might, for example, get a feeling that I should call one of them and see how she's doing, or bring her something. I can receive revelation for those things that I'm responsible for.

 

What I can't do is receive revelation for people I'm not responsible for, that would allow me to tell them something important. I could certainly not decide that I think that the whole LDS Church needs to, say, start promoting vegetarianism, or that God wants us all to move to Missouri. If God wants to tell the whole church something, He tells the prophet, who has that stewardship. Nor can I go up to someone random and tell them that I got a revelation about how they need to change.

 

So mostly we get the Spirit telling us things for us each individually to do. Those things might indeed not match up with each other.

 

Then of course there's the fact that we're all human, and maybe some of it is wishful thinking! That certainly happens. But since you can never know about somebody else, and it's none of my business anyway, I try to make sure that I'm not falling into that trap--but I wouldn't say that to someone else, because how do I know?

[Maus]

Oh I hope no one thinks we're completely disregarding non-LDS persons' negative experiences in Utah. :( No doubt they DO happen. And it is 100% shameful that it does. I think what other posters are trying to get across is that there are also very welcoming members of the LDS faith living in Utah, and they are, hopefully, becoming more of a majority than their more "isolationist" peers. It's a shame that the PP who had a negative experience ended up in a neighborhood filled with the negative ones. :(

 

Like a previous LDS poster said, it's easy to become complacent when constantly surrounded by those who think, act, and believe very much the same way you do. There's a reason why Utah County is referred to as "The Bubble" among LDS. We recognize that a whole different mindset exists there among many of the members, because there is such a *high* concentration there.

 

 

And also, you have to recognize the history behind the settlement of Utah. The LDS church didn't go there completely voluntarily. We were driven out (often violently) of several states, and went to Utah to get away. BUT, the US Army followed those early Saints out there, and after the railroad came in and more non-LDS started settling in the area, tensions still persisted (look into the history of Park City, UT, which was settled by non-LDS settlers. For the first several years of its existance it was *illegal* for companies there to hire a Mormon) So there's a long established history of "us vs. them" thinking in Utah that, sadly, still exists among some of the members, particularly those who've been there for generations.

 

I'm not trying to excuse their behavior, and like I said, it's my hope that those people will eventually become a very small minority and that LDS and non-LDS neighborly relations can be like those in other parts of the country that I've experienced. Just trying to give a bit of background to understanding where those LDS persons who don't like associating with non-LDS came about their thought-processes.

I think there is a certain amount of †hedging the law,†too. They want their children to marry in the faith, so they discourage their children from dating outside the faith, and that becomes not even associating with people outside the faith, and then that gets passed down without even realizing why they are doing it.

 

I've always been in sort of a strange position in Utah county. I was raised here, but to parents who came from Oregon. So, I was not quite an insider, but not quite an outsider, either.

 

Not all the isolationists are native Utahns. We had a fairly large segment of people who had come to BYU, then gone home to wherever, often California, and started their families. When their kids started getting into drugs, they'd move to Utah county deliberately looking for isolation and that BYU atmosphere.

[Heidi]

Thank you!

 

 

:iagree:I believe that we have the Spirit as our teacher, and I will not trust scholarly sources who do not have the Spirit. There are men who have been to seminary, etc. and sages, etc. that do not have God's Spirit. I see no sense in using what they believe while we are learning.

 

1 John 2:27; 1 John 4:1,2

 

 

I agree. Of course, we shouldn't just ignore scholarly insight, as it helps in understanding deeper meanings and such, as long it agrees with revelation from God.

[ma23peas]

I think that anyone who goes around deeming who is a Christian or not has a lot more pressing matters to deal with than other people's faith- i.e., it is time to focus on their own faith and values and not someone else's. Mormons are Christians just like Catholics and any other denomination. To me their faith is between them and God, not them and me. Period.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.''

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.''

 

I have just found in my studies of the Book of Mormon and in conversations with well-meaning and wonderfully 'good' people..that many do not know the history of their "Bible"...and unlike the Holy Bible (Old Testament and New) it does not meet the litmus directed in 2 Timothy.

 

 

 

[dangermom]

We had a fairly large segment of people who had come to BYU, then gone home to wherever, often California, and started their families. When their kids started getting into drugs, they'd move to Utah county deliberately looking for isolation and that BYU atmosphere.

 

Did it work? I've always thought it would be harder to raise kids in Utah. In CA, you always have an excuse--"I can't, I'm a Mormon"--and people mostly accept that. It doesn't work like that in Utah. I'm not sure that moving a kid already into drugs to UT would work any more than moving anywhere else would.

[mommaduck]

So if one person says they received revelation that Jesus was married and another persong says they received revelation that he wasn't...are they both right? Who actually received revelation?

[dangermom]

So if one person says they received revelation that Jesus was married and another persong says they received revelation that he wasn't...are they both right? Who actually received revelation?

 

I'd go like this to both of them: :glare: (and assume someone's been reading too much Da Vinci Code). Have you had people tell you that? That would be the prophet's department, not anybody else's. You could have either one as an opinion, but to claim revelation for it is not proper.

[Joanne]

1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.''

 

 

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.''

 

I have just found in my studies of the Book of Mormon and in conversations with well-meaning and wonderfully 'good' people..that many do not know the history of their "Bible"...and unlike the Holy Bible (Old Testament and New) it does not meet the litmus directed in 2 Timothy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why the quotes around Bible and good?

 

Why the need of some mainline Christians to make their understanding of religion right? Why is that need so pervasive that respect and reverence for another's spiritual expression is not protected as sacred?

 

Why is it not enough to be right, some mainline Christians have to make others patently wrong?

 

Just FYI, it does little to evangelize and a lot to divide. I'm think Jesus weeps.

[Xuzi]

Did it work? I've always thought it would be harder to raise kids in Utah. In CA, you always have an excuse--"I can't, I'm a Mormon"--and people mostly accept that. It doesn't work like that in Utah. I'm not sure that moving a kid already into drugs to UT would work any more than moving anywhere else would.

 

Ya, a family in our ward here in WA recently took in their niece so that she could get away from her "friends" that she was doing drugs with. In Utah.

 

I can certainly understand their desire to "get away", but sometimes there's a dangerous false sense of security about how "wholesome" Utah is. It has it's underbellly just as any other place.

[mommaduck]

I'd go like this to both of them: :glare: (and assume someone's been reading too much Da Vinci Code). Have you had people tell you that? That would be the prophet's department, not anybody else's. You could have either one as an opinion, but to claim revelation for it is not proper.

I'm not LDS, we have a long standing history and writings stemming from Christ and those that knew Him :) So I would be :glare: about "personal revelation" anyone claims ;)

 

How do you resolve this with Joseph Smith's claimed personal revelation?

[gardenmom5]

We can only receive revelation for those in our stewardship. So everyone can get personal revelation. Parents can get revelation regarding their family and children. .

 

As a mother I have stewardship over my children, for example.

 

I would like to clarify for those reading, that is MINOR children. even we have the goal of working outselves out of a job. ;) (so we can have fun spoiling grandchildren. or so I hear . . . .)

 

Even my adult daughters, who live at home (1dd doesn't like living by herself - though she can certainly afford it. 2dd is saving $$$ living here while in grad school.), are responsible for their own revelation/guidance to make decisions of what they do in their own lives (and they have their own stewardships they are responsible for). While I can offer guidance and counsel to my adult children - those are my opinions. I can pray for them, I can encourage, etc. but they are expected to make their own final prayerful decisions and get their own guidance from the Lord about what they are supposed to do.

 

I will add, I did have a rebellious child. while I was disappointed during that period - I also knew enough to just "love that child". When I prayed it was "just love that child". I invited for prayers, family activities, etc, but also took "no" for an answer. child got an up close look at "the world" through the eyes of a (very short-lived) significant other (I didn't have to do a thing - this was a *VERY* troubled so. I was also promted to allow the relationship to proceed - as *utterly* illogical as it sounded. when I recieved the prompting, and chose to go with it, I felt complete and total peace.), and after child sent them on their way, started back to church becasue they wanted to, and is getting their own personal revelation for where to do in life. When the *young adult* child is the one who has to live with the choices, they need to be able to have their own personal revelation something is right. (or wrong.) so that they have their own conviction of that something.

[Heidi]

hmsmith, I'm going to ask a question following a logical line of thought and it's not meant to stir anything up...seriously curious how it's answered from an LDS perspective:

 

You quoted Romans and placed the LDS view on it. How can the LDS even quote Romans if they can't be certain that it's correctly translated (the Bible in as far as it is correctly translated, which some LDS have said they can't verify any of it because the original manuscripts aren't in existence...so how is it used at all?)?

 

But I've known many people that say they have received revelation from God and yet their revelations contradict. How does the LDS resolve this? (fyi...I do have LDS relatives...thus why I'm asking)

 

(Cool! I just multi-quoted for the first time!)

 

 

Revelation is communication from God to His children. This guidance comes through various channels according to the needs and circumstances of individuals, families, and the Church as a whole. When the Lord reveals His will to the Church, He speaks through His prophet. Prophets are the only people who can receive revelation for the Church, but they are not the only people who can receive revelation. According to our faithfulness, we can receive revelation to help us with our specific personal needs, responsibilities, and questions and to help us strengthen our testimony.

 

Joseph Smith was called as a prophet. God commanded Joseph Smith to "translate" the Bible, and he did this through revelation. The Prophet did not “translate†the Bible in the traditional sense of the word—that is, go back to the earliest Hebrew and Greek manuscripts to make a new rendering into English. Rather, he went through the biblical text of the King James Version and made inspired corrections, revisions, and additions to the biblical text, as they were received through revelation.

 

The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, also clarifies many teachings in the Bible. The Book of Mormon also serves as a second witness of Jesus Christ, that He is the Savior of the world, and that certain events in the Bible actually took place and are true.

 

Additionally, we have a living prophet who continues to receive revelation from God concerning the affairs of His church on earth, and further reveals His gospel to us, line upon line.

 

I am not aware of any contradicting revelations concerning the interpretation of the Bible.

[meggie]

So if one person says they received revelation that Jesus was married and another persong says they received revelation that he wasn't...are they both right? Who actually received revelation?

 

They would both get an eye roll from me. In fact, I have a LDS friend who read some book that proved Jesus was married and she wrote about it on her blog and actually had something along the lines of "This proves Jesus was married." And it got an eyeroll. It's not doctrine, it's opinion. And as for them both claiming it was revealed to them, I would say, "That's nice."

 

It's kinda like the YEC vs OEC debates that get started on here. I'm sure both sides have had revelation that they feel supports their opinion. I'm not going to argue with them over it or tell them they need to be better about receiving revelation because they're wrong. To us, it's one of those things that don't really matter. All of our important doctrine has been revealed and that is what we need to follow. We don't need to worry about speculation.

 

ETA: I think I should change it to *saving doctrine*. Everything we need to know to be saved has been revealed. That should give us plenty to work on.

Edited January 18, 2012 by meggie

[Maus]

Did it work? I've always thought it would be harder to raise kids in Utah. In CA, you always have an excuse--"I can't, I'm a Mormon"--and people mostly accept that. It doesn't work like that in Utah. I'm not sure that moving a kid already into drugs to UT would work any more than moving anywhere else would.

Rarely. The drugs were here if you wanted them. Often from sources parents wouldn't suspect, like the Bishop's son.

 

I did know a few kids who had been just starting to hang with rough crowds when their parents moved them to Utah who were then befriended by good kids here and straightened up. But they were the exception.

[Heidi]

So if one person says they received revelation that Jesus was married and another persong says they received revelation that he wasn't...are they both right? Who actually received revelation?

 

 

Unless he is the president/prophet of the church, you ignore BOTH! :lol: Something like that is only revealed through a prophet.

[mommaduck]

(Cool! I just multi-quoted for the first time!)

 

 

Revelation is communication from God to His children. This guidance comes through various channels according to the needs and circumstances of individuals, families, and the Church as a whole. When the Lord reveals His will to the Church, He speaks through His prophet. Prophets are the only people who can receive revelation for the Church, but they are not the only people who can receive revelation. According to our faithfulness, we can receive revelation to help us with our specific personal needs, responsibilities, and questions and to help us strengthen our testimony.

 

Joseph Smith was called as a prophet. God commanded Joseph Smith to "translate" the Bible, and he did this through revelation. The Prophet did not “translate†the Bible in the traditional sense of the word—that is, go back to the earliest Hebrew and Greek manuscripts to make a new rendering into English. Rather, he went through the biblical text of the King James Version and made inspired corrections, revisions, and additions to the biblical text, as they were received through revelation.

 

The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, also clarifies many teachings in the Bible. The Book of Mormon also serves as a second witness of Jesus Christ, that He is the Savior of the world, and that certain events in the Bible actually took place and are true.

 

Additionally, we have a living prophet who continues to receive revelation from God concerning the affairs of His church on earth, and further reveals His gospel to us, line upon line.

 

I am not aware of any contradicting revelations concerning the interpretation of the Bible.

 

Okay, here's the thing though (and yes I've known some strange people in my time that are like this) there are other people that have claimed to be prophets, do their own "inspired" scrub of an existing translation. I don't believe as word of them anymore than I do Smith...or perhaps I should believe them all?

 

I did recently watch the Emma Smith Story. It just added to my views on Smith...seems he creates/recieves a new revelation that always comforts/makes his wife/father/whomever happy/content/what they want to hear. These are the people Scriptures warn us of (soothesayers). (just offering that as my perspective)

 

Thank you for answering my questions though. You were very kind about it :)

[gardenmom5]

So if one person says they received revelation that Jesus was married and another persong says they received revelation that he wasn't...are they both right? Who actually received revelation?

 

 

well, as some pps have explaind, it goes back to stewardship.

 

if some random member says it, since it is NOT their "job" to get that type of revelation, it is dismissed by anyone of intelligence. Maybe they're right, and maybe they're wrong. we don't know and the church itself has no position.

 

If the prophet says it over the pulpit at general conference (two-day conference twice a year), that's an entirely different ballgame.

[HSmomNY]

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.''

 

I find the Book of Mormon to be all that. I find it to be inspired of God, profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. It helps me daily in my quest to do good works. But I am afriad the perfect part is still a long way off.

My testimony of and faith in Jesus Christ have been greatly strengthen by my study of the Book of Mormon.

I am sorry you have not found it so.

[Heidi]

I'm not LDS, we have a long standing history and writings stemming from Christ and those that knew Him :) So I would be :glare: about "personal revelation" anyone claims ;)

 

How do you resolve this with Joseph Smith's claimed personal revelation?

 

Well it goes along with whether or not Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. How do you find out if Joseph Smith was a prophet?

 

Matt 7:15 "Beware of false prophets..." 16. "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

 

The "fruit" of Joseph Smith is the Book of Mormon. So if you really want to know, you read the Book of Mormon, then ask God yourself if it is true, and I believe God will answer your sincere prayer. An answer from God is something that man cannot give, or take away. :001_smile:

[Heidi]

Okay, here's the thing though (and yes I've known some strange people in my time that are like this) there are other people that have claimed to be prophets, do their own "inspired" scrub of an existing translation. I don't believe as word of them anymore than I do Smith...or perhaps I should believe them all?

 

I did recently watch the Emma Smith Story. It just added to my views on Smith...seems he creates/recieves a new revelation that always comforts/makes his wife/father/whomever happy/content/what they want to hear. These are the people Scriptures warn us of (soothesayers). (just offering that as my perspective)

 

Thank you for answering my questions though. You were very kind about it :)

 

 

That's fine! :001_smile: Apply the test, find out for yourself. If you find the Book of Mormon not to be true, then there you go. You have your answer.

 

I can only speak for myself when I say that I know the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was God's prophet. I can't prove it to you, nor would I even try.

 

I do know that God will not lead us astray. If you want to know who is God's prophet and who isn't, try the fruit and ask. I know He answers prayers.

[Lovedtodeath]

So if one person says they received revelation that Jesus was married and another persong says they received revelation that he wasn't...are they both right? Who actually received revelation?

We only know who has received insight from the Spirit because the Holy Spirit inside of us bears witness to this. If one does not have that Spiritual gift then there is really no way for them to know who really received insight from God, but we can know personally when we do.

[Heidi]

We only know who has received insight from the Spirit because the Holy Spirit inside of us bears witness to this. If one does not have that Spiritual gift then there is really no way for them to know who really received insight from God, but we can know personally when we do.

:iagree:

[Julie in Austin]

I thought this article, by a not-LDS religion professor, was an interesting addition to the conversation.

[Xuzi]

I thought this article, by a not-LDS religion professor, was an interesting addition to the conversation.

 

This reminds me this book is one I've heard recommended often by LDS and Evangelicals who would like to know where are similarities and differences between LDS- and traditional Evangelical-Christianity. It's co-written by a current LDS member and a former-LDS member-turned Baptist (I believe) minister.

[DianeW88]

I thought this article, by a not-LDS religion professor, was an interesting addition to the conversation.

 

Really good article! He gets a few things wrong....we do affirm the existence of a virgin birth, and obviously we don't believe the Book of Mormon is the invention of Joseph Smith...nor any of the attributes of Christ or any of the other things he mentioned that are tenets of our faith. But aside from that...he was pretty fair.

[mommaduck]

That's fine! :001_smile: Apply the test, find out for yourself. If you find the Book of Mormon not to be true, then there you go. You have your answer.

 

I can only speak for myself when I say that I know the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was God's prophet. I can't prove it to you, nor would I even try.

 

I do know that God will not lead us astray. If you want to know who is God's prophet and who isn't, try the fruit and ask. I know He answers prayers.

Not interested in the LDS church in that way, but thanks. I already know what is true and I don't believe that truth is subjective in that sense.

 

As to fruit, I believe it would apply more to how Smith lived than his writings. I don't find the fruit to be very good whatsoever. Kinda how some people say they like Christ, but not Christians...well, I like some LDS, but don't care for Joseph Smith.

 

Thank you for being kind enough to answer my questions though :)

[Heidi]

Not interested in the LDS church in that way, but thanks. I already know what is true and I don't believe that truth is subjective in that sense.

 

As to fruit, I believe it would apply more to how Smith lived than his writings. I don't find the fruit to be very good whatsoever. Kinda how some people say they like Christ, but not Christians...well, I like some LDS, but don't care for Joseph Smith.

 

Thank you for being kind enough to answer my questions though :)

 

Well thanks for asking them. I think we all enjoy talking about our faith. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I find this confusing to explain because I was baptized in Holy Spirit and I know God's leading and direction when I see/feel it, and was immediately led to accept some things without even researching them (though of course I check to be sure). I rely on Spirit greatly for affirming truth even outside of the original Bible canon. I don't see/feel truth in the LDS faith.

 

Mommaduck, I am proud of you for sticking up for truth.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[Heidi]

I find this confusing to explain because I was baptized in Holy Spirit and I know God's leading and direction when I see/feel it, and was immediately led to accept some things without even researching them (though of course I check to be sure). I rely on Spirit greatly for affirming truth even outside of the original Bible canon. I don't see/feel truth in the LDS faith.

 

Mommaduck, I am proud of you for sticking up for truth.

 

I understand what you mean by see/feeling through the Spirit. :) I hope my constant reference to the Book of Mormon wasn't offensive; I just really love that book! I feel the Spirit strongly when I read it and naturally desire for others to know/feel what I do. Im sure that is why you share your beliefs as well.

I have really enjoyed talking to both of you. Y'all made my day! :D

[Lovedtodeath]

I understand what you mean by see/feeling through the Spirit. :) I hope my constant reference to the Book of Mormon wasn't offensive; I just really love that book! I feel the Spirit strongly when I read it and naturally desire for others to know/feel what I do. Im sure that is why you share your beliefs as well.

I have really enjoyed talking to both of you. Y'all made my day! :D

Thank you for not getting upset at my non-PC language. :grouphug:

[ma23peas]

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.''

 

I find the Book of Mormon to be all that. I find it to be inspired of God, profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. It helps me daily in my quest to do good works. But I am afriad the perfect part is still a long way off.

My testimony of and faith in Jesus Christ have been greatly strengthen by my study of the Book of Mormon.

I am sorry you have not found it so.

 

I have several resources from which I have studied...I had a personal reason for finding out more about the Mormon religion...I had a friend in college who many wanted to 'set us up'....we both were teetotalers and 'religious'...many then did not distinguish between our faiths and to be honest, neither did I...he started to take an interest in me and I had made a choice to only date Christians. Having not known about the Mormon faith I asked him key questions that I believed to lead one to faith. He could not answer them, and he wanted to so he went to seek out answers...long story short, but it was eventually revealed to me that his elder had advised him not to communicate with me....that he should also only date Mormons...that made me even curioser. I can not begin to find the books/sources I used back then (no internet!) but when looking tonight, I did remember reading intently about the Book of Abraham and that was one area that made me have doubts...as I looked farther and farther there were more details that did not meet the scriptural reference above as did..that was enough for me. This was the first link that popped up when I put in Book of Abraham...

http://www.mormonismdisproved.org/book_abraham.html

 

Since many are posting links of one point of view...this provides additional information one might not find without knowing what to look for.

[Joanne]

I have several resources from which I have studied...I had a personal reason for finding out more about the Mormon religion...I had a friend in college who many wanted to 'set us up'....we both were teetotalers and 'religious'...many then did not distinguish between our faiths and to be honest, neither did I...he started to take an interest in me and I had made a choice to only date Christians. Having not known about the Mormon faith I asked him key questions that I believed to lead one to faith. He could not answer them, and he wanted to so he went to seek out answers...long story short, but it was eventually revealed to me that his elder had advised him not to communicate with me....that he should also only date Mormons...that made me even curioser. I can not begin to find the books/sources I used back then (no internet!) but when looking tonight, I did remember reading intently about the Book of Abraham and that was one area that made me have doubts...as I looked farther and farther there were more details that did not meet the scriptural reference above as did..that was enough for me. This was the first link that popped up when I put in Book of Abraham...

http://www.mormonismdisproved.org/book_abraham.html

 

Since many are posting links of one point of view...this provides additional information one might not find without knowing what to look for.

 

Is it necessary to "disprove" the religion/denomination of millions - some on this very thread?

 

Is this helpful? Kind? Respectful?

 

It is not like anti LDS info/sentiment is difficult to find.

 

Wait until Romney gets the nomination........

[CAMom]

Anyway, thanks for asking, and I hope this helps. :)

 

It does help, Amy! Thank you for answering and for always being so gracious!:)

[ma23peas]

Is it necessary to "disprove" the religion/denomination of millions - some on this very thread?

 

Is this helpful? Kind? Respectful?

 

It is not like anti LDS info/sentiment is difficult to find.

 

Wait until Romney gets the nomination........

 

Helpful, yes, because it addresses the OP's original question.

 

Kind? Nothing I said was unkind...it was sharing truths. Was it unkind for an elder to advise a member to shun a friend? These are my experiences and why I cared so deeply to understand what occurred in my case.

 

Respectful? Nowhere have I been disrespectful, I have shared my experiences...many of these pages are devoted to sharing links as to why one may believe in the teachings...I think it is disrespectful to not allow someone to share their experiences of why they do not believe in the teachings and thus answers the OP's query.

[Joanne]

Helpful, yes, because it addresses the OP's original question.

 

Kind? Nothing I said was unkind...it was sharing truths. Was it unkind for an elder to advise a member to shun a friend? These are my experiences and why I cared so deeply to understand what occurred in my case.

 

Respectful? Nowhere have I been disrespectful, I have shared my experiences...many of these pages are devoted to sharing links as to why one may believe in the teachings...I think it is disrespectful to not allow someone to share their experiences of why they do not believe in the teachings and thus answers the OP's query.

 

You were sharing your understanding of truth. I believe that it is disrespectful to make another person's professed faith WRONG. Faith is sacred, and we are not each other's Holy Spirit. If I know anything at all about Him, it's that He's completely capable of speaking for Himself to His people.

 

In case you don't know, I am not even remotely LDS like. I am, however, developing into a fierce defender of individual spirituality (with a large capacity and comfort level with ambiguity and co-existing truths.)

Edited January 19, 2012 by Joanne

[Myeightkiddies]

You were sharing your understanding of truth. I believe that it is disrespectful to make another person's professed faith WROING. Faith is sacred, and we are not each other's Holy Spirit. If I know anything at all about Him, it's that He's completely capable of speaking for Himself to His people.

 

In case you don't know, I am not even remotely LDS like. I am, however, developing into a fierce defender of individual spirituality (with a large capacity and comfort level with ambiguity and co-existing truths.)

 

Beautifully said.

[gardenmom5]

Is it necessary to "disprove" the religion/denomination of millions - some on this very thread?

 

Is this helpful? Kind? Respectful?

 

It is not like anti LDS info/sentiment is difficult to find.

 

Wait until Romney gets the nomination........

 

:iagree: I wouldn't dream of asking someone from another religion what someone from a THIRD religion believes. It's usually messed up - sometimes wildly so.

 

My father (mainline protestant until I was a child) rejected religion because of this type of behavior. He did teach me that there are nice people in every group. and NOT nice people in every group. How a person actually lives their life says alot to more to me than what they say they "claim" to believe. especially if they feel the need to tear down other's beliefs.

 

eta: while I believe there is one "truth" that is eternal (and that a perfect and correct understanding of science and religion will be in harmony), there are many different interpretations and levels of understanding and ideas of what "truth" is. why else would there be so many denominations of christianity let alone buddism, hinduism, etc. etc. etc. (not to mention in science . . . . )

Edited January 19, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Joanne]

:iagree: I wouldn't dream of asking someone from another religion what someone from a THIRD religion believes. It's usually messed up - sometimes wildly so.

 

My father (mainline protestant until I was a child) rejected religion because of this type of behavior. He did teach me that there are nice people in every group. and NOT nice people in every group. How a person actually lives their life says alot to more to me than what they say they "claim" to believe. especially if they feel the need to tear down other's beliefs.

 

I identify with your Dad.

 

My kids got into the car from youth group tonight simultaneously saying "Mom, you won't like what was said tonight in youth group.........."

 

I affirmed that what they heard was what that church (and many other Christian) churches believe but that I don't, and why. I also told them that some people who hold that belief are great people; some are not.

[Lisbeth]

I understand what you mean by see/feeling through the Spirit. :) I hope my constant reference to the Book of Mormon wasn't offensive; I just really love that book! I feel the Spirit strongly when I read it and naturally desire for others to know/feel what I do. :D

 

I am puzzlef by the need to apologize for referencing the BOM on a thread dissecting the LDS Church/beliefs. It seems very appropriate to reference it in such a discussion. :confused:

[Lisbeth]

Is it necessary to "disprove" the religion/denomination of millions - some on this very thread?

 

Is this helpful? Kind? Respectful?

 

It is not like anti LDS info/sentiment is difficult to find.

 

Wait until Romney gets the nomination........

:iagree:

[Heidi]

You were sharing your understanding of truth. I believe that it is disrespectful to make another person's professed faith WRONG. Faith is sacred, and we are not each other's Holy Spirit. If I know anything at all about Him, it's that He's completely capable of speaking for Himself to His people.

 

In case you don't know, I am not even remotely LDS like. I am, however, developing into a fierce defender of individual spirituality (with a large capacity and comfort level with ambiguity and co-existing truths.)

 

:D I particularly like the bolded part. :D

 

ma23peas - I am not personally offended by anything you have said. Really, though, there is no shortage of anti-mormon websites out there, and I assume everyone who has ever googled a mormon term has found them. Those that want to believe the stuff on them will search them out and believe them, and most likely are no longer reading this thread.

However, I think the kind of people who are reading this thread want to hear what we believe from the horse's mouth, so to speak. That is why your comments are out of place here. If you would like to ask a specific question about what we believe, please feel free to do so. We love answering questions!

[Veritaserum]

You were sharing your understanding of truth. I believe that it is disrespectful to make another person's professed faith WRONG. Faith is sacred, and we are not each other's Holy Spirit. If I know anything at all about Him, it's that He's completely capable of speaking for Himself to His people.

 

In case you don't know, I am not even remotely LDS like. I am, however, developing into a fierce defender of individual spirituality (with a large capacity and comfort level with ambiguity and co-existing truths.)

 

Thank you, Joanne. It gets really old to be told what you believe in wildly inaccurate or offensive terms, only to be met with further attempts to disprove or debase your faith if you take the time to correct the errors. I gotta say that it does not inspire me to investigate mainstream Christianity, if that happens to be the point. It is especially disappointing to see couched and veiled attacks from those who formerly showed grace and tact in these sorts of discussions.

[Heidi]

I am puzzlef by the need to apologize for referencing the BOM on a thread dissecting the LDS Church/beliefs. It seems very appropriate to reference it in such a discussion. :confused:

 

Oh no, I was encouraging them to read it and pray about it :D I get a little enthusiastic sometimes.

[ma23peas]

:D I particularly like the bolded part. :D

 

ma23peas - I am not personally offended by anything you have said. Really, though, there is no shortage of anti-mormon websites out there, and I assume everyone who has ever googled a mormon term has found them. Those that want to believe the stuff on them will search them out and believe them, and most likely are no longer reading this thread.

However, I think the kind of people who are reading this thread want to hear what we believe from the horse's mouth, so to speak. That is why your comments are out of place here. If you would like to ask a specific question about what we believe, please feel free to do so. We love answering questions!

 

I think it comes from an interpretation of the OPs question...I interpreted it to mean she was asking why one would consider Mormons not to be Christians, she then singled out Mormons to respond as well...I was responding to the first question, why? I am sorry some feel only certain people are allowed to share their experiences when it applies to a posted question...

 

Added...if the OP asked...Why should I consider The Mormon faith, I definitely would not have felt my experience would help, but I do think my opinion and experiences help answe this particular thread's question.

Edited January 19, 2012 by ma23peas

[Heidi]

Thank you, Joanne. It gets really old to be told what you believe in wildly inaccurate or offensive terms, only to be met with further attempts to disprove or debase your faith if you take the time to correct the errors. I gotta say that it does not inspire me to investigate mainstream Christianity, if that happens to be the point. It is especially disappointing to see couched and veiled attacks from those who formerly showed grace and tact in these sorts of discussions.

 

I agree, it does get old, BUT don't take it personally because there are many well-intentioned people that are just ignorant about what we believe, or want to declare their truth to us out of sincere love because they feel like that is their duty. And to them :grouphug: and thank you for your concern and love.

Besides, maybe one day they'll change their mind, and actually read the Book of Mormon. ;) I can't help myself!

[Veritaserum]

I agree, it does get old, BUT don't take it personally because there are many well-intentioned people that are just ignorant about what we believe, or want to declare their truth to us out of sincere love because they feel like that is their duty. And to them :grouphug: and thank you for your concern and love.

Besides, maybe one day they'll change their mind, and actually read the Book of Mormon. ;) I can't help myself!

 

When "love" comes across as venom and hate, it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. ;)

[gardenmom5]

I think it comes from an interpretation of the OPs question...I interpreted it to mean she was asking why one would consider Mormons not to be Christians, she then singled out Mormons to respond as well...I was responding to the first question, why? I am sorry some feel only certain people are allowed to share their experiences when it applies to a posted question...

 

Added...if the OP asked...Why should I consider The Mormon faith, I definitely would not have felt my experience would help, but I do think my opinion and experiences help answe this particular thread's question.

 

stating that mormons don't follow the teachings that came out of Nicea would be one way of answering why other christians don't consider mormons christian. putting up links to anit-mormon websites that "prove" mormonism is wrong is not being polite or gracious in sharing your own beliefs, whatever your experiences.

[Heidi]

When "love" comes across as venom and hate, it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. ;)

 

That would be carolfromIL :lol: I wonder if she took my advice to "let go and let God"? What does that even mean? I don't know. I probably shouldn't have said it. :tongue_smilie: