Sahamamama Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Something felt a bit "off" in the neighborhood this week... it's hard to explain. My husband was out of town for work and I was busy with the girls, but for some reason something in my spirit felt like Death was walking here. I remember looking out the window after the girls were in bed on Monday night, and thinking how many people in this neighborhood have died since we moved in five years ago -- Mrs. Bluehouse (her nickname) from across the street, Charlie from across and one down, Paul (next door), Iwona (also next door). It was dark Monday night, the wind was blowing... we are at a creepy dead end, and it felt so empty. I wasn't at all afraid, just aware of Death walking around. I mentioned it to my husband later that night when he called to check in. We found out today that Mark jumped in front of a Subaru on Monday night, a few streets over from here. Since his wife Iwona died from cancer two years ago, he has been drunk, in and out of rehab a few times, arrested, investigated by Family Services, walking to liquor stores at night, and out of control. We didn't know, but we suspected he was falling apart. We had seen him ram his truck into his van a few times, in his own driveway. His just-turned 18 year old son moved out at least 18 months ago, to live with his mother's best friend from Poland. Now she and he will move back into the house, once it's cleaned up and painted inside. At least the boy gets his house back, where he had good memories of his mother, and the house is paid off. All the neighbors think that Mark waited until his son was just about to turn 18, and then ended his life. Perhaps he was so drunk he didn't know what he was doing? The driver of the car said there was no time to stop. I feel like there was a warning in my spirit that went unheard and unheeded... what could I have done? We don't speak Polish, he spoke very limited English. We saw him kick his dog once; we think it eventually ran away. But he was gentle enough to tame a stray cat. Sometimes he replied to our greetings, sometimes he pretended not to hear. He was a mystery, really. He lost his wife, his son, his sobriety... and then his life. I know what it is to see life as bleak, dark, hopeless, and pointless -- and to fight off that mindset -- but Mark reached a bottom where I've never been. Tonight I wish we could say to him what we can only say to those living on earth: Life is not bleak! There is hope! Life has purpose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Oh my! :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: How terribly sad, but I doubt there is anything you could have done for the man. If you want to honor him and his wife, be particularly kind to their son when he moves back home. I'm sure it won't be easy for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 :grouphug: This wouldn't be comforting to everyone, but I love Longfellow's: Life is real! Life is earnest! And the grave is not its goal; Dust thou art, to dust returnest, Was not spoken of the soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) . Edited December 5, 2011 by elizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: How terribly sad, but I doubt there is anything you could have done for the man. If you want to honor him and his wife, be particularly kind to their son when he moves back home. I'm sure it won't be easy for him. This is an unwarrranted and frankly incorrect assumption. People who die from depression cannot take the unrelenting pain any longer so they end it. There are many ways for that pain to be ameliorated. The American Academy of Suicidology is a good resource for researched accurate information. Link here http://www.suicidology.org/web/guest/home This is a little lie we tell ourselves to get past sometimes well deserved guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 :grouphug: It is hard when death hits so close to home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria from IN Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This is an unwarrranted and frankly incorrect assumption. People who die from depression cannot take the unrelenting pain any longer so they end it. There are many ways for that pain to be ameliorated. The American Academy of Suicidology is a good resource for researched accurate information. Link here http://www.suicidology.org/web/guest/home This is a little lie we tell ourselves to get past sometimes well deserved guilt. Well-deserved guilt? Wow...I certainly hope you're not saying the OP deserves to feel guilty about this. Yes, there are many ways for that pain to be ameliorated, but if someone wants to die, really and truly wants to die, they will find a way to do it. If they really don't want help, they won't pick a method that catches someone's attention. Men pick more lethal ways to commit suicide, like shooting themselves, wrecking their cars (like he apparently tried to do before, according to the OP), and, yes, jump into traffic. If he just wanted attention and help, he would have picked a less lethal method like overdose or cutting (which is more typical of women). Statistically, more men complete suicide than women. I don't know a lot about Polish culture, but I'd bet that had something to do with it too...not that all Poles solve their problems in that fashion, but maybe there was a stigma against asking for help, especially with mental issues. It sounds callous and cruel for me to say this, but if he really wanted to die, I doubt he would have said anything to anyone. It sounds to me, elizabeth, that this is a subject that's unfortunately very close to your heart, for whatever reason, and for that I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 :grouphug: It's often a difficult time of year for many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm sorry. That journey down is a long, hard, lonely road, sometimes people don't recognize someone is on it. :grouphug: :grouphug: I think some people want help, and some just want away from all the pain. Yes, this stirs up some memories. This week one of our local weathermen committed suicide. My dad had worked with him before my dad retired. It's very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This is an unwarrranted and frankly incorrect assumption. People who die from depression cannot take the unrelenting pain any longer so they end it. There are many ways for that pain to be ameliorated. The American Academy of Suicidology is a good resource for researched accurate information. Link here http://www.suicidology.org/web/guest/home This is a little lie we tell ourselves to get past sometimes well deserved guilt. I think your post was unnecessarily harsh, and I do not agree that the OP should be feeling any guilt over what happened, nor was she in any way responsible for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtrmlnlabs Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes, MAYBE there is something that could have been done if OP actually was good friends with this person, really knew him. There is nothing really if you are not close to the person. I think it's pretty rough to seem to be saying OP should feel guilty. I deal with depression myself, I've been that low a few times... before I had my boys. They sure seem to have "cured" that for me. I still struggle with depression a lot, but thankfully I've not gotten that low again. My mother committed suicide a few years ago. I knew it would happen someday, I tried to help her, but I didn't know what to do for her. She would not go anywhere for help, no matter what I did or said. I'm sure there is a way I could have done something, a place like this to go to, but I didn't know anything about it. I do not feel guilty for what she did, she wanted to go and you weren't going to stop it. OP :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 :grouphug: It is hard when death hits so close to home. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 :grouphug: I also had a next-door neighbor die from his own actions. He was a severe diabetic who I later found out allowed his supply of insulin to run out, apparently on purpose. I felt so bad. I had spoken to him a few days before, and when I asked him how he was doing he had said "not too good". I went out of my way to be friendly and ask if there was anything he needed or that I could do. I had known for a while that he was depressed and always tried to be friendly toward him and stand outside and talk with him when he felt like chatting because I know when you are depressed, one person's sincere kindness can feel like a lifeline. I know it wasn't my place to get more involved - his family was looking after him - but I always felt bad that it wasn't enough. His own family was really unkind toward him. The other neighbors all said he was crazy and avoided him. It was really sad. It may be helpful to your neighbor's son to know that you cared about his dad and had been concerned for him, and that you are really sorry for his loss. When my own dad passed away, I appreciated hearing from every single person who let me know in some way that they had cared about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdeno Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This is an unwarrranted and frankly incorrect assumption. People who die from depression cannot take the unrelenting pain any longer so they end it. There are many ways for that pain to be ameliorated. The American Academy of Suicidology is a good resource for researched accurate information. Link here http://www.suicidology.org/web/guest/home This is a little lie we tell ourselves to get past sometimes well deserved guilt. I don't accept the assertion that anyone should feel guilty about another person's mental state. In fact I find suicide an angry act, a last screw you, and feel very little sympathy for anyone who decides to throw away their life that way with little regard to the destruction they leave behind. I know on an intellectual level that they are depressed and mentally ill, but on a gut level, I think they are cowards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 forget it. I'm sorry. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Sorry but I know far too well how easily prevented this is. I have helped litigate and won several suits against hospitals that threw people out with a GAF of 14. This is what I do and I know my business. I was not insinuating that the OP should have guilt. I am saying I know of three preventable deaths in the past year due to selfish, unmitigated greed and a total lack of conscience. And to the person who said it is cowardly...well I hope you never have to face that level of despair . You are very fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't accept the assertion that anyone should feel guilty about another person's mental state. In fact I find suicide an angry act, a last screw you, and feel very little sympathy for anyone who decides to throw away their life that way with little regard to the destruction they leave behind. I know on an intellectual level that they are depressed and mentally ill, but on a gut level, I think they are cowards. Not all suicides are angry. I've known several, professionally, and every one of the suffered and suffered and suffered. Commonly, after many bouts of terrible mania or psychosis, someone will kill themselves as they feel their emotional state "blasting off" again. I keep the obit of one. Her brave family (most people don't mention it in obits because of the judgment others lay on the deceased and his/her family) noted that she had suffered a chronic, debilitating illness for years, and that she was at last free of her dread bipolarness. But, I won't change your mind. It is a common feeling, and one that drives some of the fatal shame and silence about this phenomenon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) I was not insinuating that the OP should have guilt. I'm sorry I misinterpreted your post, Elizabeth. I thought you were addressing her personally, and not speaking in a more general sense. Edited December 5, 2011 by Catwoman dopey typo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 :grouphug: I have a suicide that weighs heavily on me years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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