Keeping a servant's heart towards your dc without encouraging self entitlement?

[mykdsmomy]

I have always struggled with this. I want to serve my children and show them by example how to be selfless...but I also don't want that to turn into selfishness on their part (which is what I fear is happening with at least a few of them).

 

My oldest is the most self entitled. She expects me to essentially drop what I'm doing to drive her here or there. If I'm sick, she still expects me to take her places (work, friends house, Disneyland!) I told them I would take them to Dland the other day (just drop them off...they have passes)...but I was sick, the babies were sick, and ds7 was sick.....I told dd16 that I didn't think I was going to be able to do it and she said "but you told us you would take us"....:glare:

Dd16 is always asking me for things when we go to the store....example: last night we were at Target....dd16 just got paid from her job and had a wad of money that she wanted to spend. She picked up a bottle of expensive juice and asked me if I would buy it for her or if she had to pay for it. I looked at her like 'you've got to be kidding me'....She then usually pouts and gives me a bit of the silent treatment....she has made passive aggressive comments in the past about the things I buy for myself when SHE has been asking for xy or z.

I told her she could buy the juice if she wanted it because it was not something I would normally buy. She then says "Well, I don't want to get sick from all of you so I need to stay healthy".....(see, she pulls the "you're not meeting my health needs" card!).

 

I wind up always feeling like I'm not doing enough for my kids. So how do you balance it all? How do you serve your children while still maintaining time for yourself without feeling guilty about it?

 

(I hope all of this makes sense....I've been interrupted several times ;) )

[Chris in VA]

I believe in modeling servanthood to my kids. But I also don't want to deny them the blessings that come from being a servant. All a matter of balancing, isn't it?

Sounds like yours needs to experience the blessing...:D

[Caribbean Queen]

She picked up a bottle of expensive juice and asked me if I would buy it for her or if she had to pay for it. I looked at her like 'you've got to be kidding me'

...She then says "Well, I don't want to get sick from all of you so I need to stay healthy".....(see, she pulls the "you're not meeting my health needs" card!).

 

 

I don't see this as her having a sense of entitlement. I don't see her comment as passive agressive either. I think you are making too much of this. While children do need to be respectful, they don't have the job of masking all disappointment so their parents don't feel bad. I think her responses were normal and fine.

The problem is you feel conflicted. On the one hand you are thinking, "Are you kidding me?" but on the other hand you feel guilty. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Also be encouraged that your kids do not sound like they have too big a sense of entitlement.

[Lara in Colo]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

[Lily_Grace]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

 

 

This. My job is to teach my children how to be the adults I expect them to be and that means teaching daily life like school: first modeling, then encouraging them to do the same.

 

I do not think this is your problem. Your oldest seems to have a case of teenage-itis, which symptoms include a lack of respect, an edging of guilt trips, and extreme self-awareness to the point of being blind to others. Right now she needs firm expectations and you to search inside yourself.

 

One of my biggest stall tactics right now is two words: "convince me" As soon as the whine or the begging starts, that is my reply. Want it bad enough? Convince me WHY I should do xyz for you. "I want it" is not convincing. It is not a good reason. "I feel like I'm getting a UTI and think the juice would help" would probably convince me. :D

[Sputterduck]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

 

This is just what I was thinking.

[justamouse]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

:iagree:

[KrissiK]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

:iagree: A child who's parent is their servant isn't learning how to serve. He is learning how to be served. And that it is his right to be served simply because of who he is. And that he has to give nothing back. I think that a better way to model a servant's heart is to do so for others outside the home and to include your children in that action. Of course, I'm not saying it shouldn't happen in the home, but in a different way.

[Celia]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

 

 

I agree

[Mommyfaithe]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

 

:iagree: You said this perfectly.

[2squared]

Looking at your sig line, it seems like your olders would have plenty of opportunity to serve within the household. My olders help my youngers with little things all the time. They poor drinks, draw baths, babysit for a couple minutes, etc.

[Ester Maria]

I told dd16 that I didn't think I was going to be able to do it and she said "but you told us you would take us"....:glare:

Do you model flexibility at home? Acknowledging that things sometimes do not go as smoothly or as planned, and that sometimes we need to give up on what we have planned for good reasons?

 

I would have a nice chat about flexibility and compassion with my children in a situation like this. Teens do have a certain amount of mental rigidity and "but, you said / we agreed that we xyz" and maybe need to hear explicitly things like, "Yes, I promised, but at this age and with this intelligence, you are big enough and smart enough to recognize that there are things which can mess up your plans, and health concerns are a big one, and in such situations it is not only perfectly legitimate to forgo those plans, but that is in fact the only truly safe and wise option. I can understand your disappointment, but honey, c'est la vie. Those things happen and you need to learn to deal with it without resentment."

I told her she could buy the juice if she wanted it because it was not something I would normally buy. She then says "Well, I don't want to get sick from all of you so I need to stay healthy".....(see, she pulls the "you're not meeting my health needs" card!).

Honestly, if this is a rare occurance, I would buy the darned juice. Not a hill to die on.

 

BUT, if you are saying that she does this as a standard modus operandi when you go to buy stuff, then you are basically allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated. If there are clear rules as to what you are paying for and what not, there is simply no discussion, it is a NO and a changed topic. No elaborations, no talking about it. Just NO. You have a certain red line beyond which you are not willing to finance things, she crosses the line, you do not finance it and ignore her passive aggressive drama. If she figures out she can manipulate you, she WILL do it, typically playing the emotional card as teens do. If she cannot manipulate you, you can even warmly laugh and say something like, "You know I do not finance certain things, why do you keep trying?" In a normal, warm tone, but firm. The chances are, after a while they laugh with you too and give it up. Or pay it themselves.

I wind up always feeling like I'm not doing enough for my kids. So how do you balance it all? How do you serve your children while still maintaining time for yourself without feeling guilty about it?

If you are a loving mother who provides them with their material needs, your time and attention (within your ability and life reality, but without children feeling ignored), education and opportunities for growth, you are doing enough. That "enough" may look very differently from family to family, culture to culture, and SOME amount of guilt is simply within us, but the chances are that you are still doing enough in spite of it. It is your kids who should probably get a bit of a reality check if you believe that those are not a few random situations, but a pattern of ungrateful and entitled behavior. There are many ways of doing that. While I am in principle opposed to "forced volunteering" of any kind, a lot of good can be done for a kid's perspective if you take them to a chilldren's hospital to spend some time with chronically ill children, if you take them to homeless shelters or to talks with people who did not have the life they have and got damaged in life because of it. Think about some of those options just as a possibility. It is small things like that that help.

 

I am not really into the "serving" thing as the wording is a bit problematic for me, but your problem is common, so I wanted to comment on it anyway.

[Sahamamama]

I just wondered, do you have a foster child, or more than one? Are they babies? From your sig line and what you wrote about "sick babies," that is what I gathered, but I perhaps misunderstood.

 

If you do have a foster child or children, then I think your oldest daughter resents your decision to do foster care. I hate to say this, actually, because it always comes across as negative. Before I had children I was a social worker among foster families and we saw this often with older biologicals. Sometimes these teens resented the demands the FCs placed on their parents or their family's finances -- that's their perception of it, KWIM? Just a thought, but I think your oldest daughter resents you bringing in foster children and is trying to work out her frustration.

[mykdsmomy]

:iagree: A child who's parent is their servant isn't learning how to serve. He is learning how to be served. And that it is his right to be served simply because of who he is. And that he has to give nothing back. I think that a better way to model a servant's heart is to do so for others outside the home and to include your children in that action. Of course, I'm not saying it shouldn't happen in the home, but in a different way.

 

This is true for dd16....part of the problem is that we allowed my MIL to have wayyyy too much influence on her when she was little. MIL gave her everything she wanted and showered her with toys/etc that we weren't able to give her (due to finances). MIL wouldn't let her take the cool toys home either...they had to stay at her house :glare: I think this is where dd16's sense of entitlement comes from...she was spoiled just because MIL was trying to buy her love.

 

Do you model flexibility at home? Acknowledging that things sometimes do not go as smoothly or as planned, and that sometimes we need to give up on what we have planned for good reasons?

 

Honestly, if this is a rare occurance, I would buy the darned juice. Not a hill to die on.

 

BUT, if you are saying that she does this as a standard modus operandi when you go to buy stuff, then you are basically allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated. .

 

We do model flexibility but dd16 just does not like when her plans have to be cancelled. The juice example was just one but it's CONSTANT. Another example is when I go to Starbucks (nightly...which is a whole other topic :lol: ), dd will ask if I can buy her a drink.....if I say no, she gives me an attitude and will tell me that I can afford one for me, but not her and that's not fair. (Starbucks is my outlet...it's my stress reliever and yes, it's an expense but it's also something I do for me. Honestly, it's the only thing I do (I don't spend money at a salon or getting my nails done, or even shopping for clothes (typically I buy clearance). My point is that I can't spend any money on myself without dd16 commenting on it or asking if I can buy her something too.

 

I just wondered, do you have a foster child, or more than one? Are they babies? From your sig line and what you wrote about "sick babies," that is what I gathered, but I perhaps misunderstood.

 

If you do have a foster child or children, then I think your oldest daughter resents your decision to do foster care. I hate to say this, actually, because it always comes across as negative. Before I had children I was a social worker among foster families and we saw this often with older biologicals. Sometimes these teens resented the demands the FCs placed on their parents or their family's finances -- that's their perception of it, KWIM? Just a thought, but I think your oldest daughter resents you bringing in foster children and is trying to work out her frustration.

 

This is a huge part of dd16's issues. She was 100% against us doing foster care/adopting again. We have spent many many many hours discussing this issue with her. But what it comes down to is this: Even when we weren't doing foster care (took a break for several years), she was still complaining that I wasn't doing enough for her. Foster care tends to exacerbate the issue but it's still there.

 

I appreciate everyone's responses! I feel like I'm trying to model having a servant's heart by sharing my passion for foster care with my children. They know that this is very important to dh and myself. We have explained why we are serving in this manner and it's what we feel called to do. The other children understand and embrace it....but dd16 has told us several times that she doesn't understand why we need to help these kids when we already have 4 kids. I'm probably not explaining her feelings/actions very well. To be honest, I think I have been extremely lenient with her and maybe that's the problem.

She probably gets the most one on one attention. She typically goes with me when I go shopping, errands, etc (when dh gets home). But, she has also sort of sees herself as the third parent/adult in our house which is not good. She doesn't respect my authority and I know it's probably my fault for not setting better boundaries. The thing is, I have spent too much time worrying about not doing enough for her, that I think I've done too much.

 

I have to add something else that happened today with dd12 ....she was doing the dishes and I noticed the sink was dirty and she was wasting a ton of water. I told her to please do the dishes the way I showed her (rinsing them first, stacking them on the counter, cleaning out the sink, then filling it with hot, soapy water...wash, rinse, dry). She ignored me, so a few minutes later, I said "please, do as I asked and clean out the sink and finish the dishes the way I asked". She yelled at me and told me she was doing them "her" way and I was being ridiculous. I then explained to her how she was wasting a ton of water, and how I have let her do the dishes her way for a while and she leaves the sink and counters a mess after she's done and the dishes typically have soap left in them! She said I was being a "control freak" :001_huh: I told her it was not acceptable to call me names/etc. She needed to do the dishes my way because I am the mom and she needs to listen. She continued to yell at me and told me I was being ridiculous, etc.

She has been giving me attitude about housework/school work/everything for a while now (hormones, anyone?). However, it's out of control now. She doesn't do her chores unless I tell her to go do them right now. I have tried for so long to give her grace and ask her to get chores done by the end of the day or even by the afternoon.....but she just doesn't do them unless I tell her to do them right then and there...(of course, then she huffs and puffs that I'm making her do something when she's trying to play on the ipad :001_huh: ) Ok, sorry for all the venting....:tongue_smilie:

[2squared]

I have to add something else that happened today with dd12 ....she was doing the dishes and I noticed the sink was dirty and she was wasting a ton of water. I told her to please do the dishes the way I showed her (rinsing them first, stacking them on the counter, cleaning out the sink, then filling it with hot, soapy water...wash, rinse, dry). She ignored me, so a few minutes later, I said "please, do as I asked and clean out the sink and finish the dishes the way I asked". She yelled at me and told me she was doing them "her" way and I was being ridiculous. I then explained to her how she was wasting a ton of water, and how I have let her do the dishes her way for a while and she leaves the sink and counters a mess after she's done and the dishes typically have soap left in them! She said I was being a "control freak" :001_huh: I told her it was not acceptable to call me names/etc. She needed to do the dishes my way because I am the mom and she needs to listen. She continued to yell at me and told me I was being ridiculous, etc.

 

Her attitude and behavior is obviously a problem.

 

However, I don't see why she can't do them her way IF she cleans up the mess and re-rinses any after you inspect them. I don't have a 12yo, but I would think that by that age they do need a little more freedom in how chores are completed.

 

I see my kids doing the same type of thing - doing chores their way which then makes the results not as perfect as I wanted. I am a perfectionist, so I know I tend toward control freak. My thought probably don't apply if you don't tend toward perfectionism. I have to talk myself through backing down, letting them try their way (because that's how they learn), and then follow up to make sure they fullfilled my requirements. After they see that their way didn't work very well, either they do the extra work to fix the problems the next time or they do it my way. I really don't care if they have to do extra work (after I talk myself down) because it's their extra time and effort. Sometimes they actually have a better way of doing something. :001_smile:

[Caribbean Queen]

We do model flexibility but dd16 just does not like when her plans have to be cancelled.

 

...My point is that I can't spend any money on myself without dd16 commenting on it or asking if I can buy her something too.

 

 

I still don't see her big sense of entitlement. Isn't it normal to ask for a drink when your mother is buying a drink, and sometimes buys you one too? Isn't a normal to not like your plans cancelled? I would make a policy to either buy Starbucks drinks for her, or not. Not washing the dishes correctly doesn't relate to a sense of entitlement in my mind. She shouldn't back talk you about the dishes, but again, that is a seperate issue in my opinion.

[Caribbean Queen]

But, she has also sort of sees herself as the third parent/adult in our house which is not good. She doesn't respect my authority and I know it's probably my fault for not setting better boundaries.

 

It sounds to me like you expect her to know not to ask for things, and to not express disappointment, like how adults act with their friends.

[SailorMom]

My 15 yo son is pulling similar stuff, and let me tell you - I've never made him think I was his servant, so I think it is just the age, and the fat that they are 15 and 16.

I fdon't think it is anything you are doing or not doing, and I think she'll get over it.

I look back at myself at that age - and I realize that I was pretty selfish myself. Very self-involved. I grew out of it pretty quick, but boy I'm sure it was tough on my mom as well :grouphug:

[mykdsmomy]

Her attitude and behavior is obviously a problem.

 

However, I don't see why she can't do them her way IF she cleans up the mess and re-rinses any after you inspect them. I don't have a 12yo, but I would think that by that age they do need a little more freedom in how chores are completed.

 

I see my kids doing the same type of thing - doing chores their way which then makes the results not as perfect as I wanted. I am a perfectionist, so I know I tend toward control freak. My thought probably don't apply if you don't tend toward perfectionism. I have to talk myself through backing down, letting them try their way (because that's how they learn), and then follow up to make sure they fullfilled my requirements. After they see that their way didn't work very well, either they do the extra work to fix the problems the next time or they do it my way. I really don't care if they have to do extra work (after I talk myself down) because it's their extra time and effort. Sometimes they actually have a better way of doing something. :001_smile:

 

I'm pretty lax about how things are done. I am the opposite of a perfectionist :tongue_smilie: I think that's what frustrates me about dd12. I have let her do it her way on so many chores but she continues to do it half way and if I ask her to go back and finish something or re do it because it's dirty, she throws a fit. It's an attitude issue and I'm growing weary of it. (I take partial responsibility for her attitude because I tend to "talk" through their attitudes and temper tantrums instead of applying consequences).

 

I still don't see her big sense of entitlement. Isn't it normal to ask for a drink when your mother is buying a drink, and sometimes buys you one too? Isn't a normal to not like your plans cancelled? I would make a policy to either buy Starbucks drinks for her, or not. Not washing the dishes correctly doesn't relate to a sense of entitlement in my mind. She shouldn't back talk you about the dishes, but again, that is a seperate issue in my opinion.

 

Actually dd16 is the one who asks for things constantly. Dd12 is the one who is giving me attitude about the dishes/chores/etc.

 

I don't begrudge dd16's feelings of being disappointed when plans get changed. I can empathize with her and she is absolutely allowed to show her frustration. However, it's when it turns into "why can't you just do this for me even if you're sick, even if my brothers and sisters are sick, even if it causes problems for everyone else?" that I take issue with her responses. I may not be explaining all of this well so maybe I'll try one more example. I take dd16 to work 3 x a week and pick her up. This involves me packing up two infants, and my extremely behaviorally challenged ds7. Dd16 just expects that we are going to shuttle her everywhere. I don't have a problem taking her to work...but I DO have a problem with her telling me "I'm running late, can you hurry and put the babies in the car so we can go?" Followed by her walking out the door and getting into the van and sitting there while I struggle to pack everyone up. Then ds7 goes out and starts throwing a fit that he wants to sit in the front seat but dd16 tells him no, and then yells at me that it's her right to sit in the front since she's the oldest. She then tells me to tell ds7 he can't sit in the front and to hurry up because she'll be late.

Our family has some special circumstances . Dd16 is aware of ds7's issues and refuses to change her attitude and expectations towards him. (he functions at more of a preschool level emotionally...and is unable to self regulate. Once he's escalated to a tantrum, he is gone and we cannot do anything to talk him down....he needs to ride it out in his room....). DD16 won't give him any grace. She has always had issues with him....(resentment).

We have made many concessions for dd16. She has more freedom than most 16 year olds. She is given lots of time and attention from us and in return, we expect her to help out around the house and be respectful of us.

It sounds to me like you expect her to know not to ask for things, and to not express disappointment, like how adults act with their friends.

 

I expect my ds7 to ask for lots of things but not dd16. She is old enough to know when it's appropriate and polite to ask for something and when it's not. She wouldn't ask my parents to buy her xy or z (and I'm not talking about her basic needs or even treats here and there...I'm talking about constantly asking for me to buy her something every single time we go to the store). I think the bottom line is that she thinks and acts like she is the only child. There are several children in our family and lots of expenses....if I buy a shirt for ds11, she will say "why does he get that, but I can't get this shirt...I NEED shirts"....(uh, no you don't...you have a bazillion in your closet and ds11 has only a few).

[LuvingLife]

Wow, your dd 16 is exactly like my brother! You have described him to a "T"!! He is like this and still like this no matter what my parents taught him he is so selfish, rude, mean, and nasty. He has done and is still doing some terrible things that are just stupid in my opinion, and he knows it!

 

Praying for you thoguh so she will change.

[Caribbean Queen]

I wouldn't expect my friend to ask me to buy her a drink when she has a wad of money in her pocket, but I would expect a child to ask her mom if she will buy her a drink when Mom sometimes buys drinks. I don't see asking as impolite. Her saying something like, "Well I want to be heathy so I'll buy the drink." is something that would make no impression on me. I wouldn't remeber it, interpret it as her insulting my willingness to provide.

 

I would expect my husband to help me carry babies to the car without being asked. If my older child didn't offer to help, I would not be annoyed. I would just ask for help. "Please carry Baby to the car." I might say.

 

I can understand her not wanting to give up her seat in the car. I think you should have a policy about it, like the 7 year old gets to ride in the front on the way home (when 16 y/o is at work). I don't think expecting her to give him the seat when he has a tantrum is fair. I have seen families in real life where the calm compliant girls need to obey the tantrum throwing boy because "You know how he is. Mommy needs you to help her out out." and I don't like that dynamic.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Caribbean Queen

[Lara in Colo]

get the book "boundaries" or "boundaries for kids"

 

This helped me lots!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Kids-Healthy-Choices-Children/dp/0310243157/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1322952758&sr=8-4

 

I think you have less of a problem with her pushing her limits and more of a problems of knowing how to set your limits.

 

 

Lara

[4littleones]

IMO, you teach children to have a servant's heart be having them serve others, not by being served.

 

Just like you learn the value of hard work by doing the work, not watching others work.

 

Lara

:iagree:

[Kathleen in VA]

I don't really have any great advice - sure wish I did. Here's my meager offering.

 

As far as her being disappointed about you not being able to follow through on an agreement to take her some place, one thing I make sure to do that helps keep my children's expectations real is to tell them that I am not promising anything. If they ask if we can go somewhere or participate in an event or whatever, I always say I will consider it, it's quite possible but that I cannot promise anything - I will just have to see how life plays out and if it works out, then great and if something comes up that causes us not to be able to go then that's life. Of course, if it's an event where you have to buy tickets before they sell out or something along those lines, I realize leaving it up in the air won't do. But for something like planning a shopping trip or dropping her off at Disneyland - something that could be rescheduled or just not done at all with little inconvenience - I would not make promises.

 

Of course, I make every effort to accommodate my kids and usually end up doing whatever they asked about, but when I simply cannot they know I really, truly cannot and do not complain (I have back problems that range from slightly irritating to completely disabling depending on my activity level on any given day.) Alternatively, you could just say, "Yes, I can take you to __________, barring any unforeseen circumstances such as sickness or the like."

 

If you state upfront that you may end up not being able to follow through due to life's little curve balls then she already has that caveat in her mind. I guess as adults we realize this is obvious - when we say we'll do something it is always understood that means if we are not prevented by serious illness or a houseful of sick children, or a car that won't start, etc. But for kids and teenagers, this is something that must be learned.

 

It is perfectly ok for your daughter to be disappointed - that's understandable - but it is not ok to be resentful or pout about it. Sometimes it takes a few hours/days for kids to get over their disappointments and I would try to be patient as they work through how to properly respond. I would take a few minutes to discuss with her how she needs to learn that life is full of disappointments like this. Circumstances are very often completely out of our control. The thing to do is learn how to manage our disappointment gracefully because that is what we will be expected to do as adults and really, what's the alternative? If we throw a hissy fit (internally or externally) we are only making ourselves miserable. Learning to deal with let downs gracefully is essential to being a happy, contented individual. She may still be resentful and pout - you cannot make her have the right attitude - but you can continue to encourage her to try to respond correctly. She's still growing and learning. She may not really get it until she's moved out and had a family of her own. In the meantime, you have no reason to feel guilty. You are doing the best you can and if she doesn't get that, oh well.

 

As far as you buying extras at the store when she could easily buy them herself, I'd just make it clear each time before we entered a store that you are buying what's on your list and if she wants anything that's not on there to tell you before you go in. That way you know she's not just thinking about buying things on impulse. For example, if she has been thinking all week about buying a certain food item because she read somewhere that it would be good for her she can mention it to you before you go in. If she can't remember anything like that then it's really not that important to her. Then, if she sees something she wants, you can remind her that you're only buying what's on your list and if she really wants said item, she's free to purchase it with her own money. No guilt! Again, you can't control her response to that - she will have to do that. Just refuse to feel guilty if she tries to play that card. If you feel compelled to explain yourself, just remind her that you provide well for her dietary needs and don't feel any obligation to indulge her whims for specialty items.

 

I think the trick is to make sure she understands what the rules are before she starts playing the game. Make sure you make your limitations and plans known to her and then remain calm and unemotional when she reacts badly. Learning to deal with disappointment is difficult but necessary. You just have to keep gently pointing her in the right direction and not be surprised if it takes longer than you think it should.

 

And about getting her to work and having to load the car with babies and such. You are much more adventurous that I am. I would have just told my daughter she couldn't have a job because I wasn't willing to go to that amount of trouble getting her there and back. You really are very kind and generous to do that. Perhaps if you made a list of all the things that must be done each and every time you load up the car to get her to work (get diaper bag ready, get children dressed properly, etc.) and then divided those responsibilities between the two of you, explaining that you are doing her a favor and helping to get the necessary tasks accomplished in order for you to get her to work is the least she could do. Knowing ahead of time what's expected should help her to gear up and help out. Tell her that if she isn't willing to do her part, you will no longer be able to transport her to her job. She needs to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

 

Fwiw, I'd rather have a child who voiced her disappointments and was open about her expectations, even if I disagreed with them, that a child who simply stewed in resentment without mentioning why. You can then sympathize with her struggles (none of us really enjoys not getting our way), but the communication lines are then open to teach how to deal with those struggles.

[Sahamamama]

[The fact that we do foster care] is a huge part of dd16's issues. She was 100% against us doing foster care/adopting again. We have spent many many many hours discussing this issue with her. But what it comes down to is this: Even when we weren't doing foster care (took a break for several years), she was still complaining that I wasn't doing enough for her. Foster care tends to exacerbate the issue but it's still there.... I feel like I'm trying to model having a servant's heart by sharing my passion for foster care with my children. They know that this is very important to dh and myself. We have explained why we are serving in this manner and it's what we feel called to do. The other children understand and embrace it....but dd16 has told us several times that she doesn't understand why we need to help these kids when we already have four kids. I'm probably not explaining her feelings/actions very well. To be honest, I think I have been extremely lenient with her and maybe that's the problem. She probably gets the most one on one attention. She typically goes with me when I go shopping, errands, etc (when dh gets home). But, she also sort of sees herself as the third parent/adult in our house which is not good. She doesn't respect my authority and I know it's probably my fault for not setting better boundaries. The thing is, I have spent too much time worrying about not doing enough for her, that I think I've done too much.

 

She doesn't understand why we need to help these kids when we already have four kids.

 

IME, there are children who feel deeply hurt when their parents choose to foster/adopt. Why? My theory (it's just a theory) is that these children think, "Why am I not enough for you? Why are we (bios) not enough for you?" The other side of that coin is, "Now I never have enough of you. Now I will have to share you even more." I see from your sig line that your oldest daughter is 16 years old, while your next in line is 12 years old, and then an 11 year old. This means that your eldest child was around 3.5 or 4 years old before a sibling came along, with another sibling around the corner, right? Her earliest years were exclusive -- you only had her, she had you all to herself -- and then you rocked her little boat with a sister and a brother. ;) When she "acts like a selfish 4 year old," she is trying to get back to that blissful pre-sibling state of being. What I think is that she is trying to tell you how much she feels the need of you. She equates sharing you with others to losing something for herself. Mom shares part of herself = I lose that part of Mom. She is afraid of abandonment, I think.

 

She also sort of sees herself as the third parent/adult in our house which is not good.

 

And why does she see herself this way? Has she been caring for or helping to care for babies for years? I agree with Kathleen, though, you are better off having a daughter who talks to you (but she should learn to do this respectfully) than one who shuts up and seethes in resentment. The best option is to get to the root of the resentment.

 

She was 100% against us doing foster care/adopting again.

 

You said that your eldest daughter was 100% against your doing foster care again, yet you went ahead and started back up. I am going to get flamed for saying this, but you need to turn your heart, time, and attention toward your four biological children. They are your ministry. Be done with fostering, at least until your bios are well-grown. Establish the foundation of your family on this -- that your FOUR children are gifts from God to you, and that THEY are "enough" for you, and that your cup overflows with THEM. Pour that truth into them, and see if anything changes.

 

[Note: I was a foster/adopt social worker years ago, please don't think I'm ignorant. :glare: Yes, I know that foster babies need a mother. My concern is when the foster mother "needs" the babies to feel complete or purposeful. I'm not saying that's the situation here, but it's a possibility that at the very least, the eldest daughter sees it that way. At 16, we expect some maturity... but there may be something in this situation that triggers a much "younger" response on her part, namely sharing her mother/mother's resources.]

 

Judy, if you shared this with me over a cup of coffee :001_smile: I would gently encourage you and your husband to prayerfully consider letting go of fostering until your bios are grown -- ten years or so. Redefine your ministry as bringing a healthy emotional climate to your family, establishing mutually respectful boundaries, encouraging each other toward maturity and wisdom, and pouring into each others' hearts the deep, deep love you have for each other.

 

FWIW, your eldest daughter may seem shallow, but I believe she is extremely deep. My mother would call it "complicated." :lol: Ask me how I know! LOL! You have done good work -- righteous and blessed work -- in caring for these precious foster children, and your days in that ministry are not done. BUT, please, for your sake and your daughters' and sons' sakes, think about another timing for it, maybe? :grouphug: I hug you and I honor your noble, caring heart. So many of the foster parents I knew were heroic... it always stung me when their own families fell apart. :grouphug:

Edited December 4, 2011 by Sahamamama

[2squared]

Judy, if you shared this with me over a cup of coffee :001_smile: I would gently encourage you and your husband to prayerfully consider letting go of fostering until your bios are grown -- ten years or so. Redefine your ministry as bringing a healthy emotional climate to your family, establishing mutually respectful boundaries, encouraging each other toward maturity and wisdom, and pouring into each others' hearts the deep, deep love you have for each other.

 

FWIW, your eldest daughter may seem shallow, but I believe she is extremely deep. My mother would call it "complicated." :lol: Ask me how I know! LOL! You have done good work -- righteous and blessed work -- in caring for these precious foster children, and your days in that ministry are not done. BUT, please, for your sake and your daughters' and sons' sakes, think about another timing for it, maybe? :grouphug: I hug you and I honor your noble, caring heart. So many of the foster parents I knew were heroic... it always stung me when their own families fell apart. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: I've been thinking about this thread for a while, and Sahamamama expressed my thoughts very eloquently. Your oldest is 16yo. You only have a couple years before she leaves your household, and it sounds like your family has quite a bit of mending to do. Reading between the lines, I don't think your dd is trying to be selfish or shallow. I think she is reaching out for you. I remember being a teenager and how complicated my feelings were. As a parent, I know how resources are stretched when another child is added to a family.

 

Also, I think some of the pressure may be relieved if your dd was able to drive herself to work and social activities. Is there any reason why she isn't driving?

[Sahamamama]

Is there any reason why she isn't driving?

 

In some states, the legal driving age is 17 years. In some families, there is only one vehicle or not enough money to insure a younger driver.

[Catwoman]

You said that your eldest daughter was 100% against your doing foster care again, yet you went ahead and started back up. I am going to get flamed for saying this, but you need to turn your heart, time, and attention toward your four biological children. They are your ministry. Be done with fostering, at least until your bios are well-grown. Establish the foundation of your family on this -- that your FOUR children are gifts from God to you, and that THEY are "enough" for you, and that your cup overflows with THEM. Pour that truth into them, and see if anything changes.

 

 

I agree with your entire post, Sahamamama, but I was thinking exactly the same thing as I quoted above.

 

I think Judy needs to put her own 4 kids first, and if that means giving up the foster kids for now, then that may be exactly what she needs to do. She can always foster again when her own kids are grown and out of the nest. Her dd is feeling like she is not a priority, and that her mom and dad weren't happy enough with her and her siblings, so they needed to bring foster children into their home to feel complete. Frankly, I don't blame her for being resentful, and I wouldn't blame her siblings if they were acting out, either. They don't want to share their parents with other kids -- and the dd made that very clear when they said they were going to be foster parents again, to no avail, so I think it's perfectly reasonable that she is feeling upset and unimportant.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Catwoman

[MyLittleWonders]

But, just to play devil's advocate, couldn't this be an issue even if it were other bio children coming into the family and not just a situation because of foster/adopt? (And I ask this as someone with no experience with foster/adopt except through friends.) I know my oldest holds some resentment just because of no longer being an only child; he is better now, especially with dd (she doesn't seem to pose as much competition for him being a girl and not another boy), but if Judy had given birth to another biological child instead of bringing in a foster child, couldn't you still make the argument that her oldest is holding resentment? Would you recommend someone not to get pregnant/have another bio child if the oldest was acting similarly to her oldest child? I know the entire family needs to be considered in major decisions, but aren't there some things that mom/dad decide because in the long run, it's what's best, or what's right, or what they should do? I know my oldest would have loved to have stayed an only ... but we had another, and another, and another. We love him still, and we still give him our time and attention (which Judy does with her oldest ... they go shopping together without any of the other children, for instance). Should we have not had any other biological children and instead put him (or maybe just him and our second) first?

[butterflymommy]

But she said her DD had resentment and did guilt trips even when the foster children weren't around.

 

I always encourage my kids to help each other out, and I pay my older two to do mother's helper type tasks around the house, including babysitting.

 

I think it was very rude of her to ask for the juice when (I assume) she knew it was not something you would buy. Also very rude not to care that you were sick. I've made it clear to the kids that if I'm sick, plans can be cancelled at a moment's notice and I don't want any sulking or tantrums. And if my DD were entering a store with me, with money of her own, I'd make it eminently clear up front that I was buying only XYZ on my list and if she wanted extra it would come from her own money (in fact, I've been in this situation with my DD many times, and she would never dream of asking me to buy any "extras").

 

I think it would be a terrible idea to give up the foster children because the bio children feel they aren't getting enough attention. It sends the wrong message that the world revolves around them, when it doesn't.

[Catwoman]

It sends the wrong message that the world revolves around them, when it doesn't.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that, because in our house, the world does revolve around the happiness of each family member. My ds knows the rest of the world won't always put him first, but he knows that my dh and I will do just that, and he is a happy, generous, kindhearted kid.

[TravelingChris]

I agree with Saharamama and have to tell you that delaying my helping is exactly what I did.

 

As to the riding in front of the car, no one under 14 should be riding in the front seat so of course the 7 year old should not be there. Also a 16 yo should be there because if she is not driving yet, it probably is any day until she does start driving. She needs to be observing how to operate a car and how you drive. I know that my dd has been much more observant lately since she will start driving in a few weeks.

[Rosy]

It sounds to me like you have let a lot of bad attitudes go unchecked and they are coming back to bite you now. With the 12-year-old, I would definitely be giving consequences for that kind of backtalk--whatever his/her currency is (isolation, no screen time, etc). The 16-year-old is trickier...she does sound selfish to me, but she's at an age where you can't make her do what you want. I would probably go the route of a behavior contract or something, and make it really clear what you expect from her, what kind of privileges are available when she meets your expectations and what kind of consequences there are when she doesn't.

 

I know what it's like to feel put upon as the oldest child. I think it's important to for her to know what is expected, but also to know when she's done enough. Also, to have a fair reward system (allowance) that values hard work.

 

Someone recommended the Boundaries series--I think these are excellent books that teach an important principle. Being a Christian and a servant doesn't mean allowing people to trample upon us. As parents I think we do our kids a disservice to allow them to continue in that mindset.

 

The Bible tells us to "bring our children up in the training and admonition of the Lord". This covers our words and our actions. You should definitely model servanthood, but it's a rare mom who doesn't lay her life down for her kids. And sometimes we serve our kids best by teaching them right attitudes and actions.

 

As far as the foster child issue...it does seem to me that dealing with these attitudes needs to become a higher priority.

[2squared]

But, just to play devil's advocate, couldn't this be an issue even if it were other bio children coming into the family and not just a situation because of foster/adopt? (And I ask this as someone with no experience with foster/adopt except through friends.) I know my oldest holds some resentment just because of no longer being an only child; he is better now, especially with dd (she doesn't seem to pose as much competition for him being a girl and not another boy), but if Judy had given birth to another biological child instead of bringing in a foster child, couldn't you still make the argument that her oldest is holding resentment? Would you recommend someone not to get pregnant/have another bio child if the oldest was acting similarly to her oldest child? I know the entire family needs to be considered in major decisions, but aren't there some things that mom/dad decide because in the long run, it's what's best, or what's right, or what they should do? I know my oldest would have loved to have stayed an only ... but we had another, and another, and another. We love him still, and we still give him our time and attention (which Judy does with her oldest ... they go shopping together without any of the other children, for instance). Should we have not had any other biological children and instead put him (or maybe just him and our second) first?

 

I can only answer this for my family and our perspective, but yes, my opinion applies to biological children as well. Our family is currently spread too thin because we were blessed with surprise baby #5. While this baby has been a huge blessing to us, our parenting resources were already maxed with 4 kids. We find now that our family is usually split - olders going and doing with dad while littles are at home with mom. We have had to opt out of activities b/c our 8.5 year age spread between the children is just too much. *I* am often frustrated with how the baby limits us, so I completely understand how a teenager could be frustrated. I can only imagine that the stress our family is feeling would be magnified if our kids were older, especially if they were teenagers who have more needs outside of our immediate family.

[mykdsmomy]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm............ You all have certainly given me a lot to think about and I hope you forgive me for not multi quoting but I think I'll just address the general consensus of what was said.

 

Of course no one knows exactly how our family works, and I've only given you a few examples and based on that, I can see how the opinion was formed that maybe we should take a step back and focus on "just our four".

 

 

Before we came back to foster care, we took 3 years off from it due not only to ds7's challenges but also to give dd16 a break since she was the one who was so opposed to it. We did some counseling (but mostly she refused to go). I focused on giving her more one on one time. Although, honestly, she probably gets more alone time with me than any of the kids.

We prayed about whether we should begin the journey again (foster care) for over a year before we took the plunge...then it took us a year to certify because we wanted to be absolutely sure this was the right thing to do. I prayed for a pure heart because I didn't want to do it for the wrong reasons. I am sort of getting the sense from some of the posts that we are doing it just to have another baby...and that is NOT the case. Dh and I have felt strongly about this ministry since before our biological children were born. This is where we feel led.

 

The challenges with dd16 have been there since well before we began foster care. When ds11 was 2, dd16 was throwing the mother of all tantrums because she wanted us to send him and dd12 (3 at the time) back! :glare: She wanted to be the only child and made that perfectly clear from the beginning.

 

I know I mentioned this before but it bears repeating....my MIL was instrumental in spoiling the bejesus out of dd16 when she was little. This was our fault for letting her but hindsight and all that.

 

Anyway, again, not sure if I'm explaining this well. We agonized with this decision to come back into foster care. We took her feelings into consideration and like I said above, we even did counseling. She simply just doesn't understand "why" we need to help these babies. She often says "let someone else do it". It's disturbing.

 

The irony is that she said she'd be fine if we had another biological child :confused:

 

I hope this clears things up a bit better. Again, I appreciate everyone's responses and I have been absorbing and digesting all of your comments :)

[Catwoman]

The irony is that she said she'd be fine if we had another biological child :confused:

 

I smell pants on fire. ;)

 

She's only saying that because she probably figures you're too old and decrepit to have another baby of your own. :tongue_smilie: I think it's a teenage thing to assume your mom is 100 years old. :D If you ever told her you were pg, she would probably throw a tantrum to end all tantrums, and deny ever saying she'd be ok with a new bio baby. (Maybe you should do it just for fun... :D)

 

Thanks for the clarification about your situation. You're definitely in a tough spot with your dd16, because she sounds like a Highlander from the movies -- "There can be only one" -- and she wants to be The One. Clearly, that's not going to happen.

 

And realistically, if she were an only child, she'd probably try to make you feel guilty about that, too. It sounds like she's a kid who likes to complain and guilt you into spoiling her rotten. But I think she's a fairly typical teenage girl, and I don't think you can expect her to be incredibly mature right now. Most of us were pretty self-centered at that age.

 

I don't blame her for her attitude about the foster babies, either -- and I wouldn't blame your other dc for being resentful, either. Babies require a lot of care, and I'm sure your dc don't view them as being their "real" siblings, so it's understandable that they might prefer it if someone else took care of them instead of you and your dh. Kids need their parents' attention, and anything that reduces that level of attention is Public Enemy #1.

 

I think you're trying to do the right thing for the foster babies, but I still think you might be better off waiting until your own kids are older -- or if you really want to foster a child, perhaps it could just be one baby, preferably without a lot of special needs.

 

You've already got a full plate with your own kids, and your kids are yours for life, so I truly believe that you need to nurture those relationships above all others, and it's tough to do that when you're exhausted from taking care of foster babies.

 

I do admire your dedication and caring spirit, though -- I don't want you to think I'm minimizing that, because you are doing an incredibly important job for those babies. I just think fostering may need to wait until your biological kids are older and don't need or want so much of your time and energy.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Edited December 5, 2011 by Catwoman