AprilTN Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 My dd is not a strong reader, but I am at a loss as to what to do about science. We are doing Apologia's General Science this year, 7th grade, but she is drowning in this book. To be blunt, she can't comprehend the reading. I have to go over everything with her, which causes me to have to read the chapter and take notes, digest the information, and teach it to her on her level. It is time-consuming and frustrating for both of us. I am so discouraged about school in general, as her difficulties in reading and comprehension cause her more trouble every year. She has been in private tutoring in the past for phonics and reading remediation, and it helped tremendously, but she just struggles so much with everything she reads. I feel that we will need to look into additional help for her struggles, but in the meantime, what should I do in regards to this science course? I hear about other students that just read the book, do the experiments, the study guide, and test and sail through with no problems. Is it really that easy and my child is that far behind or is there another science program that would be better suited for a weak reader? If this helps, she is doing MOH for history and can do most of that on her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Has your dd done the elementary level Apologia courses? If not, then I'd recommend you put the 7th grade general science aside for another 1-2 years and go back to them. You could enrich this for her by getting a colorful and fun reading magazine such as Creation Illustrated and some videos that will give her the joy of science study without the burden of so much reading at this point. There are rich and wonderful science studies at the Apologia elementary level that would teach her much about science without overwhelming her with text. Focusing most strongly on reading, writing and math might be the best bet for you and her for awhile, while supplementing with lighter science, the history and whatever courses you want her to explore. If you've already done the lower level courses, then I'm sure someone else might have another idea as to an alternative course. Blessings, Lucinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevs4him Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 :grouphug: It is okay to chuck this to the curb and use something more hands on and user friendly. Perhaps Noeo Science? We are a science loving family and to be honest I do not like nor will I use Apologia General Science. I know everyone brags on how good it is and how much your child will learn from it, but I feel like you need to do what is right for you and the stress this book seems to bring to your life just does not seem worth it. Of course like I said I am not a fan of this book at all :D You could also look at Abeka and BJU they seem to be well written. Wish you the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't have any experience with Apologia General, but I think it has an audio CD. Would that help her comprehension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabeth in IL Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have the cd for my struggling reader. He does very well with listening and following along in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caedmyn Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Maybe consider one of the God's Design for Science series? The sample lessons are quite short so maybe she would have an easier time with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 While there's absolutely nothing wrong with ditching it and trying something else I personally think I would buy not only the mp3 cd of the book (and listen to it not only when she reads the book but later during a rest time, in the car, on the iPod, etc.) as well as get the full class multimedia cd that goes through each lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabeth in IL Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Can you tell me what the multimedia cd is like? I saw it and some of the reviews said that it wasn't that helpful..... but maybe it would help my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have a dd that is not a strong reader, and the only way she got through Gen. Science was with me reading the text to her while she followed along. 2 years and reading tutoring later, she is able to read the Apologia Chemistry text by herself, with understanding. (She split Physical Science between 2 summers. She needed help with the reading until the middle of her 8th grade year, which was Biology.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I had the Multimedia CD for both Physical and Biology from when my older dd did them. Imo, they weren't really that great since I could find just as good or better on youtube, so I didn't get it for General. If you want video supplement, I have lots of goodies posted here. http://homeschoolersresources.blogspot.com/ The General Science tab is at the top. Just click on the Video link under each module. Oh, and like other pp's, I'm also using the audio CD w/ my kids. hth :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrrl Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 We dropped it (for the exact same reason) and ds is doing Rainbow science instead. The sections are short and to the point. I don't really care about the retention at this point- we just need to get the confidence up and the "I hate science" frustration dealt with. We can retain later! :D Rainbow has been great for us. He can do it on his own (I discuss every section with him to reinforce and make sure he is getting it) and his comprehension is growing. He is connecting the labs with the text, and now is able to predict outcomes based on his understanding of the reading. I am very happy with the gains we have made with this program! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 My dd is not a strong reader, but I am at a loss as to what to do about science. We are doing Apologia's General Science this year, 7th grade, but she is drowning in this book. To be blunt, she can't comprehend the reading. I have to go over everything with her, which causes me to have to read the chapter and take notes, digest the information, and teach it to her on her level. It is time-consuming and frustrating for both of us. I am so discouraged about school in general, as her difficulties in reading and comprehension cause her more trouble every year. She has been in private tutoring in the past for phonics and reading remediation, and it helped tremendously, but she just struggles so much with everything she reads. I feel that we will need to look into additional help for her struggles, but in the meantime, what should I do in regards to this science course? I hear about other students that just read the book, do the experiments, the study guide, and test and sail through with no problems. Is it really that easy and my child is that far behind or is there another science program that would be better suited for a weak reader? If this helps, she is doing MOH for history and can do most of that on her own. My oldest son struggled with Apologia general. The first chapter is brutal too. He's a bright kid with no learning issues and he did not sail through. I remember being very discouraged. But this was really his first experience with trying to read and digest a textbook. So after a few weeks went by and I noticed the problem was a serious problem I had him start over and write down a main idea for each paragraph. Eventually we morphed that into outlining and that is how he still works through his history and science texts. I also read and outline so that I will be able to guage how well he understood the text. And if there is something that needs a little extra explaining or attention I can bring that out when we go over our outlines (which we do together) But I don't generally re-teach the material. Reading, outlining and discussing our outlines has been the trick for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 My very good reader needs the audio cd (on her ipod) to help her with pronounciation and to stay on task. She likes the multimedia cd also, they are too seperate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 :grouphug:I would have her reading ability assessed again and take whatever corrective action that you can with tutors and phonics especially since she is in 7th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 :grouphug:I would have her reading ability assessed again and take whatever corrective action that you can with tutors and phonics especially since she is in 7th grade. My experience has been that there comes a point in time where the reading is where it is. Tutors and phonics can help, but sometimes it just won't get you much further than that. This is where accomodation comes in. Textbooks on audio are good for this kind of thing. Often kids with reading struggles can read the text, but struggle with processing the input at the same time as reading it. The best option seems to be listening to the text WHILE reading it, so there is visual input as well as audio. In addition, the PP who mentioned that her ds started writing down the main idea and then moved to outlining - this is an excellent idea to go along with what I mentioned above, because then you get kinesthetic as well. For a different resource, the Walsh Power Basics series is written for students who can handle the higher level concepts, but have a lower reading ability. They also have many, many other resources that have the same high interest, lower ability content. :grouphug: It's tough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 We dropped it (for the exact same reason) and ds is doing Rainbow science instead. This is exactly what I was thinking. We don't use Apologia Science but it sounds like a bad fit for you dd. There are many other choices, but Rainbow is known for being very hands on and would be age appropriate. It should have her ready for high school sciences when she gets there without the reading frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I can't remember where SWB said it in TWTM, but she said something to the effect of "learning to read and write are priority." I would put off the science book and focus on the reading and comprehending skills. Start with something below her level that she can progress through quickly, to build her confidence. Is it the act of reading or vocabulary that she struggles with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Has your dd done the elementary level Apologia courses? If not, then I'd recommend you put the 7th grade general science aside for another 1-2 years and go back to them. You could enrich this for her by getting a colorful and fun reading magazine such as Creation Illustrated and some videos that will give her the joy of science study without the burden of so much reading at this point. There are rich and wonderful science studies at the Apologia elementary level that would teach her much about science without overwhelming her with text. Focusing most strongly on reading, writing and math might be the best bet for you and her for awhile, while supplementing with lighter science, the history and whatever courses you want her to explore. If you've already done the lower level courses, then I'm sure someone else might have another idea as to an alternative course. Blessings, Lucinda Yes, I'd drop back down to a lower level. It only matters that she gets it, not that she gets it by a specific date, at this point. Try again next year and do something simpler or even 5th or 6th grade Science this year, supplementing with whatever you think may be of interest. My kids have learned a lot of things "off-schedule". Some things very early, one thing (Math for one, grammar/spelling for the other) rather late. They both do extremely well in outside classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3andme Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 If you decide to stick with General Science, you might look at Red Wagon Tutorials as well. They have live and pre-recorded dvd classes that follow this course. I haven't used these myself but they seem to get good reviews on the high school board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 A little bit of chaste advice. One, do some reading on dyslexia. If that's what she's got, she needs to get the eval and get some recommendations on appropriate accommodations. Waiting doesn't change dyslexia. (Read "Overcoming Dyslexia" by Shaywitz, might be at your library.) Because waiting doesn't change it, putting the curriculum aside for 2 years doesn't help. And I can tell you I share that kind of crazy feeling of wondering what you DO if your kid isn't going to be reading those texts that loom in high school. I mean you don't have a this year problem. It's a this year and next year and next year. That's why you need the formal eval. (We're starting ours Thursday btw.) I was thinking about this more today (the whole science thing), because we had our own dust-up with the BJU Life Science after she rejected the Apologia GS. I think the audio would help. I had it with the Apologia and didn't try it. I didn't try reading the Life Science aloud with her, so I'm not sure what difference it would have made. The way we were doing it, she read, then I went through it with her and helped her outline. In retrospect, I'm realizing that it worked when I was reading it with her, line by line, helping her outline. As soon as I tried to have her do it herself, crash. And that took SO much time, I was mystified, overwhelmed, and bewildered. I don't even know that that's the final answer. It's one of the reasons we're getting the evals, because I need some answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 My ds14 is dyslexic, and the Apologia audio CDs are a life-saver. If you have paperwork proving that your child is dyslexic, you can get a free audio CD. We only are getting one, bc he'd need to be re-evaluated each year to continue getting free CDs. Ds has been gradually getting more independent, however, *before* using Apologia. He had already used Switched-oh Schoolhouse for 3 years, and although it is a computer sounding voice, he got used to it and has actually done okay with it. We still use SOS for history, but started with Apologia this year for him, with the audio CDs. He is required to read along, and it helps a lot. Before all this, I did read each and every lesson to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) :grouphug: I would use some kind of CD or DVD for science and focus on improving reading and building up vocabulary the next 2 years before high school. I saw from a previous post that a tutor is working with her using Wilson. I would recommend you work with her using Rewards and the things on my how to tutor page. She can also work through my online phonics lessons. I like Parker's Readers (linked from my Webster Speller page) because they increase in difficulty in reading and vocabulary and have difficult words defined within the books. You can figure out where she would need to start in the online versions, then order an actual book--originals can be found fairly inexpensively through Alibris or ABE books. I also like Webster's Speller for my remedial students. For students for whom guessing is a problem, I use a lot of nonsense words and use the uppercase version, 1824 edition. For students with underlying speech/hearing difficulties who do not guess, I like the 1908 marked print edition. If they have underlying speech/hearing difficulties but guess, I use the 1824 uppercase and nonsense words until guessing stops and then switch to the 1908 version. My students with some sort of visual processing problem do better with the uppercase 1824 version, they find the markings in the 1908 distracting--yet, these markings are invaluable to my student with speech apraxia. I would alternate reading/phonics work the rest of her subjects. For example, 25 minutes of phonics work; math; 20 minutes of Rewards; science; 20 minutes of reading Parker's Readers aloud to you; history; 15 minutes of phonics concentration game (nonsense words.) I would also recommend watching the first 5 lessons of Understanding Linguistics with her. Edited October 26, 2011 by ElizabethB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 My ds14 is dyslexic, and the Apologia audio CDs are a life-saver.If you have paperwork proving that your child is dyslexic, you can get a free audio CD. We only are getting one, bc he'd need to be re-evaluated each year to continue getting free CDs. Ds has been gradually getting more independent, however, *before* using Apologia. He had already used Switched-oh Schoolhouse for 3 years, and although it is a computer sounding voice, he got used to it and has actually done okay with it. We still use SOS for history, but started with Apologia this year for him, with the audio CDs. He is required to read along, and it helps a lot. Before all this, I did read each and every lesson to him. Marty, is it Apologia that is requiring this re-evaluation every year? I'd confront them on that. Sally Shaywitz, in her book "Overcoming Dyslexia," says that even the re-evaluations every 3 years are unnecessary, that dyslexia doesn't go away. So I'd find that section (it was in her chapters on diagnosing, was just reading it yesterday) and photocopy it and send it to them. It costs $1500 around here, at the cheapest, for a neuropsych eval to get the dyslexia diagnosis. I can't fathom what they're thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Marty, is it Apologia that is requiring this re-evaluation every year? I'd confront them on that. Sally Shaywitz, in her book "Overcoming Dyslexia," says that even the re-evaluations every 3 years are unnecessary, that dyslexia doesn't go away. So I'd find that section (it was in her chapters on diagnosing, was just reading it yesterday) and photocopy it and send it to them. It costs $1500 around here, at the cheapest, for a neuropsych eval to get the dyslexia diagnosis. I can't fathom what they're thinking. Yes, it is Apologia. But my ds was diagnosed for free at the local ps. I had no idea that it could cost so much! Maybe it was because of *how* we had him evaluated? Not really the proper way(?) I guess, from what you're saying. Maybe what we did wasn't the real thing, iow. ??? The CDs are $15 from Apologia, but cheaper at CBD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I saw everyone said basically the same thing to try the audio CD. I would recommend the same thing. I want to say something in terms of the comprehension issue. I notice with the Apologia program in the upper levels that it does get harder as the child moves to the next year. Science can be hard and confusing. I guess it would not hurt to test your child, but I know that science does get harder for high school. My son had no problems with the general science last year, but the physical science is hitting him. I make him take notes. He summarizes and writes up his vocabulary words. We talk a lot about the subject, too. I got an idea to put the notes on index cards and the vocabulary words on index cards. We can make a game out of doing that like matching words to definitions and topic with vocabulary words. My son did really well on his last exam. He admitted that doing it this way did help. Just my experience. Blessings in your homeschooling journey! Sincerely, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Testimony, I have videos posted for Apologia Physical here. http://homeschoolersresources.blogspot.com/ Mostly things I've found on youtube. Just FYI. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) I agree with the folks that say to focus on the reading issues. Things will always be harder if she has reading issues. As far as science I might take her back to the elementary books just to let her experience some success with reading a science text. I really see reading as the most important issue here. Now is the time to address the basic issue. Advanced science can come later. Ideas to help with reading: Read a LOT. Read aloud together. Do *popcorn* reading. You read a paragraph and then she reads a paragraph. Find books on tape that have books with them and have her read along in the book with the cd/tape. (SOTW is good for this. You can also find many book/cd sets in the library.) Talk about vocabulary words from the books she reads that she finds difficult. use the words in conversation. Watch movies that use advanced vocabulary and talk about the words. Of course, these suggestions assume that there is not an underlying physical issue or LD. I assume those things have been ruled out. Edited October 26, 2011 by Josie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I didn't see if this was mentioned already, but you can get an audio of the book for her, it's only about $15. And if she has a diagnosis, like dyslexia or a vision processing issue, you can get it for just the cost of shipping from Apologia. My son was going through vision therapy the year we did General, and it helped tons for him to be able to listen to the CD and try to read along. (I also got the CD for Physical science, but by then he found he could read faster than the CD and dropped it). Have you ever looked at www.covd.org to see if perhaps she might have some vision processing issues? My son improved so much after therapy, it's worth looking into. There are other science programs--I have friends that really like Rainbow Science, which I think is more hands on and less reading. Maybe something like that would be a better fit? Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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