is it possible to do 4 years in 2?

[whiskeywife]

My oldest DS is in high school. He wants nothing to do with homeschooling. My youngest is being homeschooled. The school my oldest attends has a different kind of scheduling. He has four classes for half of the year. Each class is 11/2 hours long. So, for example, he will have a whole year english class in only 1/2 of the year.

 

I was wondering if this would work well with homeschooling. I was thinking that maybe each half of the year could be considered a full year. I hope this makes sense the way I'm explaining it. So DS would have 9th and 10th grade classes in one year (sept.-june) and 11th and 12th the following year. By then he will be 16 and he could begin classes at the local community college.

 

Does anyone think that is possible or am I crazy to think that would work? Has anyone done/tried that?

[Jenny in Florida]

As I understand that kind of "block scheduling," they usually do longer periods but fewer classes at a time. So, the English class that might usually be 45 minutes long is 90 minutes, but the student will have only half as many classes each semester.

 

It works out to the same number of credit hours per year.

 

The only way I can see a typical student doing the equivalent of four years in two is if the student is working twice as long every single day (if each school day were 12 hours long). And I doubt many students would find they were learning much if they kept to that schedule.

 

My son hopes to finish high school in three years, like his big sister did. However, that is feasible for him partly because he is coming into ninth grade with a few credits already finished. He is also taking more credits per year than average in order to meet his goal. For example, while the standard in our area is six credit hours per year, he is juggling eight.

[regentrude]

I do not think it would work, for several reasons.

 

1. Work load. Squeezing 5 high school credits into half a year would require ten hours of work daily. That is without electives or any extras, just the bare basics. 6 credits would be 12 hours. I do not think a 14 y/o student can work effectively, with full concentration for that amount of time.

 

2. Some ideas and concepts need time. Particularly in math, you need to dwell on a topic, let it sit for a while, come back to it. Rushing through math at double speed may not give the student enough time to truly process what he is doing. Science would be similar.

 

Why does he have to be finished with his high school work before taking classes at CC? Go at normal speed, and have him take classes at CC for dual enrollment in 11th and 12th grade. Why the rush?

[Guest AlligatorQueen]

That is what I am currently doing. It has worked out okay for me so far. I use summers to stay on track and the pace is good for me. If you have any more specific questions, let me know.

[Storm Bay]

I doubt it would work. The only way I could see someone doing 4 years of high school in 2 is if they were very higly gifted, learned indepth things very quickly, read and absorbed material unusually easily, were able to write well easily without doing a lot of editing, they were highly motivated, etc. There are a very, very few kids who can do 2 grades per year all the way through school, particularly high school. Also, they would need to be very mature for their age so that they could handle college at 16, or else be able to do their first 2 years of college online (or do a couple of gap years to do other learning.)

 

If you want to find out more about that, then I'd go to the AL forum. At least one parent there has a dd who started college at age 12 (she comes here, too, I believe).

 

Otherwise, I wouldn't try this.

[regentrude]

Most of the kids who start college early did not graduate early because they were doing two years of high school in a single year, but because they had started working on high school material at a younger age.

[Storm Bay]

Most of the kids who start college early did not graduate early because they were doing two years of high school in a single year, but because they had started working on high school material at a younger age.

 

Yes, this is absolutely correct. There are very, very few people who could do 4 years of high school in 2, and I'm talking a small fraction of 1 percent. I forgot to add that you'd probably have to school year round. Generally a child this motivated has been motivated like this from the start, too.

[Jenny in Florida]

Also, they would need to be very mature for their age so that they could handle college at 16, or else be able to do their first 2 years of college online (or do a couple of gap years to do other learning.)

 

If you want to find out more about that, then I'd go to the AL forum. At least one parent there has a dd who started college at age 12 (she comes here, too, I believe).

 

Otherwise, I wouldn't try this.

 

That's probably me.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think it's that tough or even that unusual to start college at 16 or younger. I'm in touch online with a whole group of parents who have kids who started on-campus classes younger than 14. I started at 16, as did my husband. My daughter went away to an early entrance program at 12, and my son will likely start taking at least a few classes when he's 14 or 15.

 

Regentrude is correct, though, that most kids who are successful with early college (at least the ones I know of) don't start early because they rushed through high school. They end up graduating early because they begin doing high school work earlier than average. For example, my daughter started her high school work when she was nine. And my son (although we're calling him a ninth grader for social purposes) took his first online high school class (honors geometry) when he was 11.

[whiskeywife]

The reason I ask is because we recently moved to a new state and their graduation requirements are different than where we were. The high school requires 22 credits for graduation. Each class is one credit so that equals to 22 classes. If you divide that by four "semesters" (a fall and spring semester for 2 years) that equals out to 5.5 classes per semester. DS who is in the public high school takes 4 classes per semester now.

 

The only reason I thought of DS going to the local community college at 16 is, IMO, community college wasn't any harder than high school (I went to community college after high school). So I figured he could get a "jump start" on college. He is mature for his age and I think he would do fine in college classes.

 

Thanks for the opinions though, keep 'em coming.:)

[Dmmetler]

Rather than rushing through, I'd look for classes that he can take at a college level, but count for high school credit. This is what kids who do AP courses do, after all. In my case, I basically took no high school coursework after age 16, just because everything was dual enrollment or AP.

[kiana]

The reason I ask is because we recently moved to a new state and their graduation requirements are different than where we were. The high school requires 22 credits for graduation. Each class is one credit so that equals to 22 classes. If you divide that by four "semesters" (a fall and spring semester for 2 years) that equals out to 5.5 classes per semester. DS who is in the public high school takes 4 classes per semester now.

 

5.5 classes per semester instead of 4 classes per semester is nearly 40% more. Doing 11 (even if they're lighter) high school courses per year would be a hefty load even for an older kid. I would recommend strongly against it.

 

Why not just plan to dual enroll? For example, he takes human geography at the university instead of a high school geography class, and you count it as a high school credit for geography. He takes Freshman Comp 1, and you count it as a high school credit for English.

[Teachin'Mine]

If he wants nothing to do with homeschooling, I'm not understanding how having more classes at an intense pace for two years will make it more palatable. :001_huh: I'd aim for dual enrollment instead, which he should be able to do while still enrolled in the high school.

[Julie Smith]

There was a neat fiction book I read as a teen. The main character some how made it so his highshool would give him enough credits to finish college in half the time. He did this by mixing his subjects so he would do a huge project on let's say the history of music. The music teacher would give him music credit for it. The history teacher history credit. The English teacher English credit for writing the paper...

 

Now what was the name of that book?:hat:

[whiskeywife]

5.5 classes per semester instead of 4 classes per semester is nearly 40% more. Doing 11 (even if they're lighter) high school courses per year would be a hefty load even for an older kid. I would recommend strongly against it.

 

Why not just plan to dual enroll? For example, he takes human geography at the university instead of a high school geography class, and you count it as a high school credit for geography. He takes Freshman Comp 1, and you count it as a high school credit for English.

 

 

I should have mentioned that one of the classes is PE so I guess I wouldn't really count that as part of the day. I've looked into dual enrollment but I'm still trying to figure out the logistics of it in our area as we are new to the state.

[whiskeywife]

If he wants nothing to do with homeschooling' date=' I'm not understanding how having more classes at an intense pace for two years will make it more palatable. :001_huh: I'd aim for dual enrollment instead, which he should be able to do while still enrolled in the high school.[/quote']

 

 

Sorry, I guess I should have clarified better. My DS that wants nothing to do with homeschooling is 17 and is in public school. My youngest DS who is 13 is the one I am homeschooling. I was just using the 17yo school scheduling as an example of what I meant.

[Ellie]

The reason I ask is because we recently moved to a new state and their graduation requirements are different than where we were. The high school requires 22 credits for graduation. Each class is one credit so that equals to 22 classes. If you divide that by four "semesters" (a fall and spring semester for 2 years) that equals out to 5.5 classes per semester. DS who is in the public high school takes 4 classes per semester now.

 

The only reason I thought of DS going to the local community college at 16 is, IMO, community college wasn't any harder than high school (I went to community college after high school). So I figured he could get a "jump start" on college. He is mature for his age and I think he would do fine in college classes.

 

Thanks for the opinions though, keep 'em coming.:)

Well, do homeschoolers have to follow those requirements to graduate?

 

And does your ds have to actually graduate to enroll in the community college?

 

Both of my dds did community college instead of high school.

[whiskeywife]

Well, do homeschoolers have to follow those requirements to graduate?

 

And does your ds have to actually graduate to enroll in the community college?

 

Both of my dds did community college instead of high school.

 

They don't have to follow these requirements. There aren't any "graduation" requirements at all for homeschooling here. I was just using the public school's requirements as an example of what I was thinking of doing. I guess I didn't do a very good job explaining. Sorry. I could issue him a homeschooling "diploma" and provide transcripts to the community college or he could get his GED in order to be enrolled in community college.

[Greensa]

Before you have him take the GED, check the boards out carefully. There have been a good number of posts about why that may not be a good idea. Dual enrollment is by far the more common/popular option.

 

And on another topic altogether (maybe I should start a new thread, but it came up in here so I'd like to sound you out before doing so), how do those of you who started college early feel about finishing early AFTER 10 years or so out? I have a friend who started at 16 (a lawyer, FWIW) who is urging us to be cautious about starting our daughter at the same age. True, she went away to school as opposed to CC at 16, but she feels she missed out on a great deal because she was always out of step, age-wise, with her cohort at college.

 

I say after 10 years out because she said it really didn't solidify in her brain until she was mid-late 20's.

 

Sara

[regentrude]

I could issue him a homeschooling "diploma" and provide transcripts to the community college or he could get his GED in order to be enrolled in community college.

 

He does not have to be graduated in order to attend CC- many kids do during high school.

[Ellie]

They don't have to follow these requirements. There aren't any "graduation" requirements at all for homeschooling here. I was just using the public school's requirements as an example of what I was thinking of doing. I guess I didn't do a very good job explaining. Sorry. I could issue him a homeschooling "diploma" and provide transcripts to the community college or he could get his GED in order to be enrolled in community college.

Just wanted to clarify things. :-)

 

Are you *sure* he has to be graduated to enroll in the community college? Are you *sure*? Did you actually go to the office and talk to an actual person and see it in writing?

 

And FTR, the diploma you issue wouldn't be a "diploma." It would be a diploma, just as legitimate as the diploma issued by any other school. ;-)

[cathmom]

Most of the kids who start college early did not graduate early because they were doing two years of high school in a single year, but because they had started working on high school material at a younger age.

 

or they just go to college early, like I did

[Jenny in Florida]

And on another topic altogether (maybe I should start a new thread, but it came up in here so I'd like to sound you out before doing so), how do those of you who started college early feel about finishing early AFTER 10 years or so out?

 

My only regret is that I didn't start earlier.

 

My daughter just graduated this past spring and has mixed feelings about her experiences. But, as you said, I don't think her feelings will solidify until she's got some chronological distance. Right now, she's so busy waiting for her life to start--like pretty much every other recent graduate I know--that I don't think she's seeing things all that clearly.

[vonfirmath]

And on another topic altogether (maybe I should start a new thread, but it came up in here so I'd like to sound you out before doing so), how do those of you who started college early feel about finishing early AFTER 10 years or so out? I have a friend who started at 16 (a lawyer, FWIW) who is urging us to be cautious about starting our daughter at the same age. True, she went away to school as opposed to CC at 16, but she feels she missed out on a great deal because she was always out of step, age-wise, with her cohort at college.

 

My husband started college through an Early Entrance Program at University of WA when he should have been in 7th grade. He is ADAMANTLY against our kids do anything of the sort. He missed out on having friendships with peers his own age (in fact, this is part of his negativity on homeschooling in general. We've... compromised on the first few years for now.) He thinks that has had long term negative effects for him.

 

But he does acknowledge that not all of his peers were affected the same. (though mostly it is girls that seem to have thrived)

 

I, also, am not sure how well he would have done in a public school environment at the time where everything being taught was below his level -- this seems to lead to a lot of acting out in class, etc.

[flyingiguana]

We've gone down the path of deciding when they're emotionally and intellectually ready for college classes, rather than graduating them from high school when they've reached a certain number of credits.

 

So this could work both ways -- you might have a child with very few high school credits who was perfectly ready for college classes, while another has to accumulate more high school credits than "required" before they're ready to launch into college.

 

We've ended up doing some dual enrollment, but still do a lot at home. This is because I feel we're doing a better job of educating our particular kids through high school than a college could do if the college was their exclusive means of high school education. Counterintuitively, this is because we can provide a more intellectually stimulating environment than most college classes would provide -- but without the stress of grades.

 

We've also done a few AP tests, but have found that those aren't as likely to get useful college credits out of the way as dual enrollment. And even with dual enrollment, one should choose classes very carefully (with a college advisor?) if you ever want those to count as useful credit in college. (You can get credits galore, but they may not mean anything in terms of getting general ed requirements out of the way, or moving the student through the major faster.)

 

However, the other great thing about dual enrollment is that it allows the student to explore various fields without wasting a bunch of time at that when they actually go to college.

[flyingiguana]

My very gifted daughter actually delayed going to college for a year as compared to her age mates. It was definitely the right decision for her. She's much more mature and can now handle doing a double major (in two very different fields), take on jobs that are in her field of study, and still have a bit of a social life.

 

She could not have done this if she'd started college early, so she's getting much more out of the college experience than if she'd done what she was "supposed" to do.

 

I'm also seeing that there are other kids who are starting a year "late", at least as determined by their birthday. And these aren't kids who were struggling. They're coming in with lots of AP credit and dual enrollment credit. They end up getting good scholarships and doing well once they get to college. These are kids the colleges are courting.

 

And I have to admit that I have never understood the push to do the full college experience early. If one has a really bright kid, that just means they've got a lot more things they're good at -- so more things they could explore during the high school years. These things take time. The only reason I'd push for early college is if my kid was in a high school situation that wasn't keeping up with them, and they were stagnating. But I don't understand how that would happen if the student was homeschooling. I can *always* come up with more things for my kids to do that are intellectually stimulating and valuable.

[regentrude]

And I have to admit that I have never understood the push to do the full college experience early. If one has a really bright kid, that just means they've got a lot more things they're good at -- so more things they could explore during the high school years. These things take time. The only reason I'd push for early college is if my kid was in a high school situation that wasn't keeping up with them, and they were stagnating. But I don't understand how that would happen if the student was homeschooling. I can *always* come up with more things for my kids to do that are intellectually stimulating and valuable.

 

I can provide challenging and stimulating work for my DD in our homeschool, no question about that. What I can not provide is the academic competition in a classroom that this very social, extroverted, competetive student craves and considers her strongest motivator. She can hardly wait to go to college because she thrives on classroom interaction. I can not see a way to satisfy this need in a homeschool environment.

[Jenny in Florida]

And I have to admit that I have never understood the push to do the full college experience early. If one has a really bright kid, that just means they've got a lot more things they're good at -- so more things they could explore during the high school years.

 

Not for every kid. For some of them, it means they are craving intellectual peers and instructors who know and love their subjects. And for some kids, the things they are great at--and more importantly the things they love--cannot be accomodated outside of a college campus.

 

These things take time.

 

Not for some kids. Honest.

 

The only reason I'd push for early college is if my kid was in a high school situation that wasn't keeping up with them, and they were stagnating. But I don't understand how that would happen if the student was homeschooling. I can *always* come up with more things for my kids to do that are intellectually stimulating and valuable.

 

Where do you find intellectual peers? Where does a kid who is ready for and needing college-level discussion find people with whom to interact?

 

For some kids, it's not even about the intellectual stuff. It's about maturity and a need to move on with their lives.

 

My son, for example, is every bit as bright as his big sister (who went away to college at 12). However, he's not especially interested in school. It's part of his personality, and I don't really expect it to change. He loves to learn, but isn't particularly excited about college. He's more than capable of college-level work in some subjects, and he's beginning to think that he'd rather go ahead and get started than bide his time with high school work. He's excited to get out into the world and start his life.

 

He may well start college within the next year or so, if I can work it out for him.

 

My daughter was simply wilting at home the last year she was homeschooling. She was working on honors-level and AP high school stuff but was lonely and bored. We were meeting her intellectual needs in a kind of sterile way, but she had no one with whom to share it. She decided that a residential early entrance program where she would meet and live with other profoundly gifted girls would be a good fit. (I should mention that, while the girls have their own dorm for the first year or two, they are otherwise fully integrated into the campus.) Although she has mixed feelings about the experience now (mostly because she was disappointed in the academic challenge), looking back she's not sure what other choice would have been better. And I fully suspect that she will make peace with this once her life starts picking up steam.

 

I think many people forget that profoundly gifted kids are more than their brains. They often have social maturity and emotional needs that are beyond their years, too.

[regentrude]

For some of them, it means they are craving intellectual peers and instructors who know and love their subjects.

...

 

Where do you find intellectual peers? Where does a kid who is ready for and needing college-level discussion find people with whom to interact?

 

My daughter was simply wilting at home the last year she was homeschooling. She was working on honors-level and AP high school stuff but was lonely and bored. We were meeting her intellectual needs in a kind of sterile way, but she had no one with whom to share it.

 

:iagree:

 

The only reason my DD is not wilting is because she has interaction through her outside interest, horses, that satisfies part of her need to be with people. It does not satisfy her need to interact with intellectual peers, but it takes the edge off.

[AHASRADA]

http://www.americanschoolofcorr.com/

 

Many families have successfully used American School for the child to earn a diploma more quickly than traditional school. They are regionally accredited, which is the gold standard, meaning their diploma is accepted virtually anywhere.

 

It's not fancy, it's not particularly enriching, but it gets the job done efficiently. Some families use American School to earn credits while doing their "own thing" the rest of the time, enriching as they see fit. However, if your dc would prefer to just "get it done" and move on to cc, you could definitely accomplish that with American School.

 

Good luck!

[foxbridgeacademy]

The reason I ask is because we recently moved to a new state and their graduation requirements are different than where we were. The high school requires 22 credits for graduation. Each class is one credit so that equals to 22 classes. If you divide that by four "semesters" (a fall and spring semester for 2 years) that equals out to 5.5 classes per semester. DS who is in the public high school takes 4 classes per semester now.

 

The only reason I thought of DS going to the local community college at 16 is, IMO, community college wasn't any harder than high school (I went to community college after high school). So I figured he could get a "jump start" on college. He is mature for his age and I think he would do fine in college classes.

 

Thanks for the opinions though, keep 'em coming.:)

 

I think you could do it. To me learning isn't about the amount of time you spend on the material, it's how well you understand, remember, and can apply it. So if he can do say 1 years worth of History in 6 months...why not? Using your states 1=1 Then 1 history/social science, 1 Science, 1 math, 1 Language/Lit, 1 elective, = 5 then do a Science lab for the .5. You and DS will have to be motivated and school year round. Other options might include doing it in 3 years instead of 2 or you could do duel enrollment. I hope to do the last with my DC.

[Greensa]

We are currently running a block schedule. Think summer school, year round. In about six weeks, we complete a year's worth of school, then take a week to do a special project which ties the subject to RL. For geometry, for instance, my daughter will completely finish Jacobs' Geometry this week then use next week to design, with materials & costs, the bedroom she wants us to build in the basement when (if) we finish it. I took this idea from Colorado College which does it at a college level, in about four week blocks.

 

She hates it for the block but loves it afterwards. It's complicated by RL committments, but what isn't? Recently, she worked while I was gone for a week with a family emergency, has worked around PT for a broken ankle, worked around outside rather time-consuming theatre committments, etc. But for that six weeks, it is intense and even after, we choose to use the SAT books to review (a couple of math problems/day, for instance, & vocab word-of-the-day) to make sure it all doesn't fall out afterwards.

 

We aren't trying to finish more classes in less time. She expressed frustration that everything constantly ran together while learning and she was never finished - "never a weekend off" was her complaint (welcome to RL101, kid!).

 

We'll see how it does by the end of our school year (March or so), but so far, for the three classes we've done, the cycle has been

 

"this will be easy!"

"I can do this! I can!"

"AARGH!!! THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! WHY ARE WE DOING THIS!!!"

"I quit!! I never want to do this again!!!"

"It's done! Hallelujah!"

"OK! I'm ready! What's next?"

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

We're currently on "I quit!" But she sees that if she keeps it up she'll be done with geometry by Saturday so she says it & then goes back to it.

 

I will say that for each class, her self-pacing ability seems to improve so I have hope that one thing this is teaching her is how SHE needs to schedule things to get them done.

 

So if DS wants to try blocks, try them. Be forewarned, supporting the child during this kind of intense schooling can be... challenging. And I do agree with the concensus, it really isn't a way to finish school earlier. Not unless the child is motivated to do so. After those intense six weeks, DD needs a few days downtime so you can't just run them together or you'll get burnout.

 

Sara

[regentrude]

How are you doing this for math?

The big drawback I see in block scheduling math is that there will be long gaps in which no math is taught, which usually is detrimental for the math skills.

I notice how rusty my student's skills are in math disciplines they have not currently studied (algebra skills for calc students, calc 1 skills for calc 2 students, trig skills for everybody). I would be seriously concerned about doing math only for 6 weeks out of the year and then taking a 48 week break from math. For most students, that will result in a significant loss of skill.

So what are you doing to ensure her algebra and geometry skills stay sharp when used only six weeks out of a year?

 

We are currently running a block schedule. Think summer school, year round. In about six weeks, we complete a year's worth of school, then take a week to do a special project which ties the subject to RL. For geometry, for instance, my daughter will completely finish Jacobs' Geometry this week

[mycalling]

I think it is doable. I actually did block scheduling and I never understand people being against it. We also had the option of a Zero Period where we'd earn a 9th credit per year for a 45min class that lasted the full year before normal classes started each morning.

 

It worked wonderfully and no math gaps were seen. It allowed us to take two math classes or two science classes in succession each year. Plus we were ready for college semester pacing. I easily managed 4 classes WITH 1-3 dual-enrollment college courses each semester my Junior & Senior years.

 

Your son is 13, you can start awarding hs credits for anything at a hs level now. Do the 4/4 credits per year for 2yrs. Add a zero period for anything he needs to take a full year. That's 18 over two years. If he can handle 4 credits before hs, he'll have what he needs. Or 2 credits plus summer courses.

 

Or, again another option is to do one semester in college dual-enrolled after the two years to finish his 22 credits. In our state, dual-enrollment is free so our plan is to do block scheduling starting as a Freshman in what would be DS's 7th grade year (6th will be "Middle School") for 3yrs then dual-enroll him (in the equivalent of 10th grade) even though he'd have enough credits to award a diploma just because it will be free if I don't award one. After he attains his maximum credits to transfer, I'll award a hs diploma.;)

[mycalling]

How are you doing this for math?

The big drawback I see in block scheduling math is that there will be long gaps in which no math is taught, which usually is detrimental for the math skills.

A block is 18 weeks, half the year, so there would not be a 46wk gap. Also, if her ds does 4 years in 4 semesters, he will be taking a math class every semester.

 

She also has the option of doing one extra course that would be 45min for the entire year. Math would be a good class to do that way if he needs extra time, but he'd have had to have gotten through Alg1 and Geometry beforehand. In my school, it was usually wasted on something like JROTC or getting your 0.5 credits of Economics and Gov't out of the way.

Edited September 29, 2011 by MyCalling

[regentrude]

A block is 18 weeks, half the year, so there would not be a 46wk gap. Also, if her ds does 4 years in 4 semesters, he will be taking a math class every semester.

 

 

I was responding to Greensa who wrote:

" In about six weeks, we complete a year's worth of school,"

Her student is covering geometry in 6 weeks.

Since she does not go faster, that means one math course per year.

So yes, that would leave 46 weeks without math.

[Teachin'Mine]

We are currently running a block schedule. Think summer school, year round. In about six weeks, we complete a year's worth of school, then take a week to do a special project which ties the subject to RL. For geometry, for instance, my daughter will completely finish Jacobs' Geometry this week then use next week to design, with materials & costs, the bedroom she wants us to build in the basement when (if) we finish it. I took this idea from Colorado College which does it at a college level, in about four week blocks.

 

She hates it for the block but loves it afterwards. It's complicated by RL committments, but what isn't? Recently, she worked while I was gone for a week with a family emergency, has worked around PT for a broken ankle, worked around outside rather time-consuming theatre committments, etc. But for that six weeks, it is intense and even after, we choose to use the SAT books to review (a couple of math problems/day, for instance, & vocab word-of-the-day) to make sure it all doesn't fall out afterwards.

 

We aren't trying to finish more classes in less time. She expressed frustration that everything constantly ran together while learning and she was never finished - "never a weekend off" was her complaint (welcome to RL101, kid!).

 

We'll see how it does by the end of our school year (March or so), but so far, for the three classes we've done, the cycle has been

 

"this will be easy!"

"I can do this! I can!"

"AARGH!!! THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! WHY ARE WE DOING THIS!!!"

"I quit!! I never want to do this again!!!"

"It's done! Hallelujah!"

"OK! I'm ready! What's next?"

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

We're currently on "I quit!" But she sees that if she keeps it up she'll be done with geometry by Saturday so she says it & then goes back to it.

 

I will say that for each class, her self-pacing ability seems to improve so I have hope that one thing this is teaching her is how SHE needs to schedule things to get them done.

 

So if DS wants to try blocks, try them. Be forewarned, supporting the child during this kind of intense schooling can be... challenging. And I do agree with the concensus, it really isn't a way to finish school earlier. Not unless the child is motivated to do so. After those intense six weeks, DD needs a few days downtime so you can't just run them together or you'll get burnout.

 

Sara

 

I'm glad this works for you, but honestly, this sounds like a nightmare! :tongue_smilie: I can't for the life of me imagine why you'd want to do this - I guess I'm not understanding the benefits. I know that my dd enjoys diversity in her days and would not be happy doing one subject for hours on end to the exclusion of all else.

 

I agree with Regentrude, I can't imagine how the retention with math (or a foreign language) would work.

 

To the OP, I would say that you really should talk with your son about how he'd like to do school and take that into account too.

[flyingiguana]

 

Where do you find intellectual peers? Where does a kid who is ready for and needing college-level discussion find people with whom to interact?

 

Adults. And a select number of teens who don't choose to follow the fad of hiding their intellect.

 

Maybe we just live in a weird area, but we find plenty of people to interact with intellectually. This could be because we're near a large university and numerous small colleges. The neighbors just tend to be more intellectual. And my kids don't feel they have to have intellectual peers that are their own age. It's a question of finding people who share interests.

 

And when my kids can't find anyone outside the house, they still have me. We have way more intellectual conversations at home than I have ever seen in a college setting.

 

College isn't the answer to this problem anyway, as there is still an awful lot of teen drama and immaturity in college students. There might even be more than there is at the high school level because a lot of kids are living on their own for the first time.

 

It's also interesting that my college daughter has found many more peers in the *faculty* and hardly any in her fellow students. But she doesn't see the faculty as being more intellectually engaging than any of the other adults she was interacting with before she went to college. She would have been fine, socially speaking, to skip college and keep engaging with adults in the community -- except that she saw the value of getting a diploma for job hunting.

 

With my kids, there hasn't been any problem with lack of things to keep them interested and busy in the last years of high school. I think they would rather put off college because it tends to get in the way of their self-education.

[Jenny in Florida]

Adults. And a select number of teens who don't choose to follow the fad of hiding their intellect.

 

Sure, for casual conversation. But I'm talking about intellectual peers with whom she could study. My daughter was the youngest member of the local anthropology society, for example. And it was good for her. But she quickly out-stripped what those hobbiests were doing.

 

And her passion is theatre, which offers kids lots of opportunities to interact with mixed-age groups. She did lots of community and semi-professional theatre before she left for college, but almost none of the others in the casts were as serious about it as she was. Only every few shows, maybe once or twice a year, did she find someone who was actually teaching her anything. And, because of her age, she was excluded from many of the formal classes that might otherwise have been a good fit for her.

 

We did those things, but it just wasn't enough.

 

Maybe we just live in a weird area, but we find plenty of people to interact with intellectually. This could be because we're near a large university and numerous small colleges. The neighbors just tend to be more intellectual. And my kids don't feel they have to have intellectual peers that are their own age. It's a question of finding people who share interests.

 

We have a branch of the state university within easy driving distance, as well as a private college and two community colleges. We belong to a Unitarian Universalist church, a denomination that has far more than its share of college-educated members.

 

My kids are generally known, even in those circles, as the weirdly smart ones, the ones who have to define the words they use in casual conversation for adults. We've never had a neighbor with whom my kids had much of anything in common.

 

By the way, I contacted every one of those colleges before she made the decision to go away, begging them to allow her to at least audit a couple of classes. We were turned down at every campus. Two of my adult friends teach at one of the community colleges. Each of them went to bat for my daughter, trying to get permission for her to sit in on their classes. They were turned down, too.

 

And when my kids can't find anyone outside the house, they still have me. We have way more intellectual conversations at home than I have ever seen in a college setting.

 

Agreed. In fact, my daughter is very up front about the fact that she was learning much more homeschooling with me than she did in most of her college classes.

 

But she was lonely. Hanging out with Mom 24 hours a day is hardly the best way to meet a teen's social and intellectual needs. She needed friends, new horizons, people with whom she could be her outside-the-family self.

 

We're very close. Now that she's home, we spend a lot of time every day talking and hanging out together. But I'm not her friend or her peer. I'm her mother, and it is--and should be--different.

 

College isn't the answer to this problem anyway, as there is still an awful lot of teen drama and immaturity in college students.

 

For kids who are as far outside the norm as my daughter, I'm not convinced there is "the answer." We just have to do the best we can day to day. For her, at that point, making the leap to full-time college was the best option we had. Yes, it was a mixed experience. But I saw how much happier and healthier she was during those years than she had been her last year at home. And I see now what a self-possessed, interesting, mature kid she is now. So, while I'm sure it wasn't "the right choice," I'm equally sure it was the least worst choice.

 

I was a smart kid, too. And I can speak to the potential down side of not letting kids move ahead when they need it.

 

With my kids, there hasn't been any problem with lack of things to keep them interested and busy in the last years of high school. I think they would rather put off college because it tends to get in the way of their self-education.

 

That's wonderful. I'm glad it's working out for yours. I'm sure it does for the vast majority of kids.

 

It just didn't for my daughter.

 

The funny thing is that I've said for years that I expected my son would be on a more traditional path, that he had enough to keep him busy here at home and wouldn't be in a hurry to head off to college. And he's always agreed.

 

Until two weeks ago, when he asked me at breakfast if we could have him ready for college next year.

[Katy]

I doubt there is any community college that requires a high school diploma. Just sign the kid up as a dual enrolled homeschooler. As long as it's a school where the credits will be accepted for transfer by local universities, once he has an associate's degree no one will care about high school. Just state homeschooled and it will be fine.

 

I don't regret going to college early, but I sort of do regret the way I did it, moving away to New England. I'd never been much of a partier in high school and I did not understand that either I'd need to party (which meant drinking at the least, and drug use to many) to have friends at college. The alternative was staying in your room and studying all the time like the asian kids and the gaming addicts - NOT me. Also, I was not expecting the ridiculous amount of eating disorders there. It was normal for girls to go on chocolate & ice cream binges and then run to the bathroom all together immediately after eating.

 

It would have been much better had I either switched to community college or the local university full time and stayed home- where I had friends with the same values as me and it wouldn't have involved student loan debt.

 

I don't think I would EVER let someone less than 16 live away from parents unless it was a very structured boarding school with a lot of supervision and headcounts every night. I've seen too many creepy examples of 15 year olds sleeping with grad students.

 

For the years of high school that I did take, I had block scheduling, a full schedule of 8 classes at a time, and I took community college classes at night too. And I managed to work almost 30 hours a week during the school year. I rarely bothered to do homework, but I absorbed enough in class to test well, so I was still on the honor roll. So except for not being let into the "junior" and "senior" English classes early, I did have enough credits to graduate after sophomore year. It is doable. At the time (and now) I mostly felt high school was a huge waste of time, just babysitting. I did not understand that undergraduate work is mostly the same - parrot back what the teacher wants you to memorize, nevermind if it's intellectually sound or not. I wish someone had told me that going for the degree is a lot different than going for an education. I know many people who never finished who are very educated, and some others with graduate degrees who are complete dolts.

 

I'm actually very supportive of the concept of a gap year - a year of traveling or missionary work. I just don't know why you couldn't do college early while living at home and take the gap year when you're 18.

 

I would be sure to include some social subjects whether or not the child goes to school early. Increasing social and emotional intelligence is probably underestimated IMO.

[Katy]

oh, I forgot to say- college work is really not more difficult than high school work. Go to the library, get a CLEP guide, and test your kid. I bet he could have a semester's worth of college credits by the end of the week with very minimal review, even in middle school.

 

that's not to say that you should rush through learning just for the sake of a piece of paper. ideally you'd like him to be both educated/intellectual AND have the piece of paper.

 

Some of that education takes wisdom that only comes from time and going through difficult life experiences.

[regentrude]

oh, I forgot to say- college work is really not more difficult than high school work. Go to the library, get a CLEP guide, and test your kid. I bet he could have a semester's worth of college credits by the end of the week with very minimal review, even in middle school.

 

Cough... that depends entirely on the course. Not all college courses are created equal and not all are just "fluff". Some college classes have prerequisites that a student typically does not fulfill until the later high school years, and some require quite a bit of work. My students pass my class if they attend four hours of class weekly AND work for 8 hours at home... not once, but every single week for a semester. I would think it extremely rare for a middle school or jr high student to pass a math or science CLEP with one week prep... in fact, that would be rare even for an upper high school student.

[Gwen in VA]

I cringe at the

college work is really not more difficult than high school work

comment.

 

Maybe there are colleges out there that aren't more difficult than high school. Maybe there are colleges where students pass the classes just by showing up. Maybe there are colleges where little is expected of the students. I don't know.

 

However, not all colleges are equal!

 

There are definitely colleges that have rigorous classes, that challenge even their highly intellectual students, and that require copious quantities of work. I know -- I attended one and my two older kids are attending a different one.

[Katy]

I would think it extremely rare for a middle school or jr high student to pass a math or science CLEP with one week prep... in fact, that would be rare even for an upper high school student.

 

Ah- but I didn't say math or science. I was thinking more along the lines of the "easy" exams... the composition ones or analyzing literature are both worth 6 credit hours each, though apparently those aren't the most difficult:

 

http://www.free-clep-prep.com/clep-difficulty-list.html

 

Anyway, once one realizes that college credits aren't so difficult after all, it becomes easier to challenge yourself with the more difficult & incremental math, science, and language options.

[Storm Bay]

I was responding to Greensa who wrote:

" In about six weeks, we complete a year's worth of school,"

Her student is covering geometry in 6 weeks.

Since she does not go faster, that means one math course per year.

So yes, that would leave 46 weeks without math.

:iagree: I don't think you can handle math, foreign languages or music study doing one subject at a time in such short blocks.

Not for every kid. For some of them, it means they are craving intellectual peers and instructors who know and love their subjects. And for some kids, the things they are great at--and more importantly the things they love--cannot be accomodated outside of a college campus.

I think many people forget that profoundly gifted kids are more than their brains. They often have social maturity and emotional needs that are beyond their years, too.

 

I agree with Jenny. Also, you can't put kids in a box or generalize with hg or pg kids anymore than you should with other kids. Even speaking with most adults isn't going to satisfy the craving for intellectual conversation; how many adults do we come across who do this regularly? And even if you meet some, how many will be comfortable doing this with 12 yo's, for eg?

 

Also, there is often a large leap between being highly gifted & profoundly gifted which is easy to miss, and some pg kids do enjoy socializing their age peers (I wish I had the link to past discussions on this on the AL forum and/or old AL boards.)

[Jenny in Florida]

Also, there is often a large leap between being highly gifted & profoundly gifted which is easy to miss, and some pg kids do enjoy socializing their age peers (I wish I had the link to past discussions on this on the AL forum and/or old AL boards.)

 

My son does enjoy spending time with his age peers . . . if they are also, well (no politically correct way to put this) . . . smart. His closest friends are all a year or more older than he is and bright. That appears to be ideal for him.

 

However, there are only so many such kids to meet in one's home city. And, inevitably, any given kid won't necessarily hit it off with another one, just because they have a similar IQ. So, it's always kind of a miracle when they find friends with whom they are really comfortable.

[Caroline]

My son does enjoy spending time with his age peers . . . if they are also, well (no politically correct way to put this) . . . smart. His closest friends are all a year or more older than he is and bright. That appears to be ideal for him.

 

However, there are only so many such kids to meet in one's home city. And, inevitably, any given kid won't necessarily hit it off with another one, just because they have a similar IQ. So, it's always kind of a miracle when they find friends with whom they are really comfortable.

 

It is interesting that you said this about your son today. My oldest started playing soccer in an adult soccer league recently. He is the youngest on the team by about 4 years, and he is coming out of his shell and really enjoying the older, college-aged guys on the team. Even though he is still in high school, the guys have taken him in like one of their own. They take turns taking him to and from games and practices. They discuss his AP classes with him. He is enjoying being around serious college students (who happen to play soccer with him,) and it has really opened things up for him. It is kind of a miracle for him. (And they don't mind when he uses trig to explain goal keeping. They actually get it.)

[Storm Bay]

My son does enjoy spending time with his age peers . . . if they are also, well (no politically correct way to put this) . . . smart. His closest friends are all a year or more older than he is and bright. That appears to be ideal for him.

 

However, there are only so many such kids to meet in one's home city. And, inevitably, any given kid won't necessarily hit it off with another one, just because they have a similar IQ. So, it's always kind of a miracle when they find friends with whom they are really comfortable.

And this challenge can continue throughout life.

[Kim in Appalachia]

then take dual credit classes during 11th and 12th grade. My dd will have 27 or 30 credits (depending if she takes 3 classes next semester) when she is done this spring.

[Jenny in Florida]

And this challenge can continue throughout life.

 

Oh, yes. That is very true.

[Nan in Mass]

Jenny - The problem with this scenario is that those older friends go off to college and leave you behind. We've tried to mitigate that with cc classes, but a few classes doesn't replace friends, especially friends so rare. But maybe your son will go away to college at the same time (early for him) and that problem will be solved. Sigh.

Nan