What should my friend say to bigots?

[ElizabethB]

I recently met a nice family of Mexican heritage. I was shocked and saddened to hear that the wife and daughters sometimes receive mean looks, gestures, and comments. (Dad never does, and they do not when with dad. He is a big strong guy that while actually friendly, does not look it to the causual observer!)

 

Is there anything she can say that would make people think twice? She has worked as a teacher in the past and is a smart, interesting lady. (She likes homeschooling, too!)

 

My husband and I were thinking that there must be something she could say that would make a difference to a few of these people or at least make them think.

 

She would not want to say anything too mean back, but subtle sarcasm might be OK.

[....]

Ugh, there's nothing to say. My neighbors are from Puerto Rico and they've told me the same kinds of stories. One of their kids was being absolutely tormented at school. I have no advice. We're also a biracial family and we've had all kinds of questions/comments. I could vent all night about it. :svengo: To answer your question, I don't think there's anything she can do about it.

[LucyStoner]

I say "I beg your pardon, I didn't quite hear that", let them repeat it (if they are even willing) and then say "why do you think that?" Then when they have totally embarrassed themselves, they usually walk away and never speak to me that way again. That said, it is appalling the extent to which racism permeates still. I am sorry they encounter it.

[serene]

'bless your heart' comes to mind. :glare:

[GWOB]

You just can't fix stupid. It wouldn't matter what your friend said. She could recite Shakespeare and discuss Einstein's Theory of Relativity and ignorant people would still find something to hate about her. YOU may be able to make things easier for her. Go out in public with her. Invite your friends over for dinner. Be your normal, awesome self and tell her to do the same. Just weed out all the stupid people.

[Carol in Cal.]

She can looked pained, in a dignified way, and stare them down.

 

It's a tough one, though. So wrong, and so common, and those of us who are not people of color don't have nearly as much occasion to observe it as people of color do.

 

I believe that old saying, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." That means that I object to this whenever it comes up in my presence. Thankfully, around here very few will 'assume' that I agree with them when they say something racist, but I do go on record when it does happen, and try to do it in a clever way that makes people think. Still, I know that someone Hispanic can't just opt out of seeing it in the way that I can. It's not right.

 

Warning: objectionable anecdote--At church once, the one guy who talks like that was making cracks about Asian Americans once, and I backed away from the circle he was talking with--he noticed me do that, as I was sure that he would, and said, "So, Carol, are you leaving room for the lightning bolt from heaven onto me?" to which I replied, "That's exactly right, I expect it any minute!" and that got him derailed onto an entirely different topic, much to everyone's relief. It was not his finest hour. And at church!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Honestly, it depends on who is saying it and how scary they are. If it is someone I know who is just clueless, then I would do as kjipt said and ask them to repeat it. If it is a member of a skinhead gang (and yes, my dh and I have been harassed), then I would not engage and would get to safety.

[BillieBoy]

I agree there isn't much you can say. I am Amerasian and I have dealt with bigotry my whole life, here and abroad, gestures, words and even violence. I've even endured hurtful ignorant statements from my inlaws towards my and our daughters ethnic nationality.

 

In my youth I took the submissive route; it didn't work. In my teen years I used my smart mouth; it didn't work. In my twenties I would belittle their intelligence and circumstance by elevating my own; it didn't work. In my thirties I became bitter and used anger until I realized I had become what I despised; it didn't work.

 

Now, in my forties, I'm trying the live and let live approach. I'm not going to change them. They (and this is a generalization) come with their own blinders, learned behaviors, and misconstrued and misplaced fears. I, on the other hand, can walk away knowing that I'm okay. I use those past experiences when I'm quick to judge others, their situations and their beliefs.

 

Your friend is sure to have strong shoulders esp. with friends like you. :001_smile:

[gardenmom5]

I My husband and I were thinking that there must be something she could say that would make a difference to a few of these people or at least make them think.

 

She would not want to say anything too mean back, but subtle sarcasm might be OK.

 

subtle sarcam (of any degree) would NOT teach any positive message.

 

I did read a story about an older black gentleman who encountered a younger woman who made a racist comment. he pretended to not hear her clearly, and asked her to repeat her comment. Again, he pretended to not understand/hear what she was saying, and asked her to please repeat herself. He did this several times until SHE "heard" what she was saying, realized it's inappropriateness, and no longer repeated her comment.

 

that was a very wise man - and he got the message across.

[ElizabethB]

Ugh, there's nothing to say. My neighbors are from Puerto Rico and they've told me the same kinds of stories. One of their kids was being absolutely tormented at school. I have no advice. We're also a biracial family and we've had all kinds of questions/comments. I could vent all night about it. :svengo: To answer your question, I don't think there's anything she can do about it.

 

They are fine at school...I think it's mostly Wal-mart where they have problems. (That could explain a few things...and I do shop at Wal-mart.)

 

I say "I beg your pardon, I didn't quite hear that", let them repeat it (if they are even willing) and then say "why do you think that?" Then when they have totally embarrassed themselves, they usually walk away and never speak to me that way again. That said, it is appalling the extent to which racism permeates still. I am sorry they encounter it.

 

That might work, thanks!

 

'bless your heart' comes to mind. :glare:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

You just can't fix stupid. It wouldn't matter what your friend said. She could recite Shakespeare and discuss Einstein's Theory of Relativity and ignorant people would still find something to hate about her.

 

You're probably right--but I was hoping. It is sad.

 

She can looked pained, in a dignified way, and stare them down.

 

She could try--she's short and very sweet and good natured, I'm not sure she could pull this one off, but it sounds like a possibility.

 

Honestly, it depends on who is saying it and how scary they are. If it is someone I know who is just clueless, then I would do as kjipt said and ask them to repeat it. If it is a member of a skinhead gang (and yes, my dh and I have been harassed), then I would not engage and would get to safety.

 

She wouldn't say anything to the scary looking people. We're going for the clueless crowd. She is very well-spoken, so a pleasant educated sounding ask to repeat themselves might make an impact on a percentage of the clueless crowd.

 

I agree there isn't much you can say. I am Amerasian and I have dealt with bigotry my whole life, here and abroad, gestures, words and even violence. I've even endured hurtful ignorant statements from my inlaws towards my and our daughters ethnic nationality.

 

In my youth I took the submissive route; it didn't work. In my teen years I used my smart mouth; it didn't work. In my twenties I would belittle their intelligence and circumstance by elevating my own; it didn't work. In my thirties I became bitter and used anger until I realized I had become what I despised; it didn't work.

 

Now, in my forties, I'm trying the live and let live approach. I'm not going to change them. They (and this is a generalization) come with their own blinders, learned behaviors, and misconstrued and misplaced fears. I, on the other hand, can walk away knowing that I'm okay. I use those past experiences when I'm quick to judge others, their situations and their beliefs.

 

:grouphug:

 

I'm sorry. I was hoping there was something that could help, I'm sorry you have experienced that your whole life.

 

Have the comments gotten any less frequent over the years? I would hope that there has been at least some progress in this area. My friend has moved often so can judge different areas but not trends over time. She did say that some places she's lived have been worse than others.

 

I did read a story about an older black gentleman who encountered a younger woman who made a racist comment. he pretended to not hear her clearly, and asked her to repeat her comment. Again, he pretended to not understand/hear what she was saying, and asked her to please repeat herself. He did this several times until SHE "heard" what she was saying, realized it's inappropriateness, and no longer repeated her comment.

 

that was a very wise man - and he got the message across.

 

Hopefully she can get this message across to a few people.

[Impish]

Honestly, I've found that the Look O'Death is my only recourse. And even then, its on a case by case basis. I've been in situations that any response at all could probably escalate into violence, or at least has that 'air' to it.

 

Idiots abound. Sometimes even in your own gene pool (or in our case, Wolf's).

[YourFidgetyFriend]

From experience, bigots will try to make you feel like you are crazy or oversensitive if you point out their bigotry.

[Lovin Learnin]

Unfortunately, I do not believe there is anything she could say to a bigot that would make them reconsider their ingrained hatred, nor do I think she should have to. Why should she have to prove her worthiness to some idiot? And responding to these comments only gives life to their ignorance and adds fuel to the fire. I say she moves on and continues with her shopping.

 

Ignorance from an acquaintance or friend should be addressed. Idiots at Walmart aren't worth the time.

[Slartibartfast]

You just can't fix stupid. It wouldn't matter what your friend said. She could recite Shakespeare and discuss Einstein's Theory of Relativity and ignorant people would still find something to hate about her. YOU may be able to make things easier for her. Go out in public with her. Invite your friends over for dinner. Be your normal, awesome self and tell her to do the same. Just weed out all the stupid people.

 

:iagree:

 

One shouldn't say anything to bigots, it isn't worth it

[Laurie4b]

Changing bigots doesn't happen this way--your hope seems to be that she'll "prove" herself . That takes more than a short exchange in a Walmart aisle. People change when they really get to know someone--though they might also choose to put the person in the "exeception to my bigot rule" category.

 

I would focus on supporting your friend and letting her vent if she has a need.

 

OTOH, YOU can intervene when you hear that kind of talk whether your friend is around or not. My friends and family are at least careful (some maybe intimidated, LOL!) around me and some have changed, I believe. I will often tell positive stories about my friendships with folks outside the bigot's race. I will challenge things put up on FB in the same way--usually a private message. I've had people repent and take stuff down after these encounters.

 

Building understanding across ethnic groups is a long process of listening, being open to new perspectives,being open to new ways of viewing the world, etc. It's a long process. For instance, many white people in the US and some parts of Europe put an extremely high premium on "being on time" by the clock. 15 min late is about the limit of their tolerance or the other person is considered "rude. "

 

What many white follks may have a really hard time wrapping their minds around is that nearly the whole rest of the world gives a premium to relationships over "on time." Yes, it's often "inefficient" and the "trains may not run on time" in the same way. But which is rude and which is polite? Which is better for your health? This kind of reflection and getting into each others' heads could add so much value to our lives. To at least *understand* another person's point of view is very helpful.

 

White folks have the disadvantage in the perspective taking because we are the dominant culture in the US, so we don't tend to recognize a lot of our culture as being particularly "white", it just *is*, you know? Other ethnic groups *have* to study and understand a white point of view but white folks can go on their way pretty oblivious to it all. And those are folks who are simply oblivious --not necessarily feeling threatened or challenged. Add to that any sense of feeling threatened or challenged, and it's a superb mix for bigotry.

[DawnM]

We have relatives who are just ignorant. It drives me crazy. There is no talking to these people. It is not worth my breath.

[BillieBoy]

[quote name=I'm sorry. I was hoping there was something that could help' date=' I'm sorry you have experienced that your whole life.

 

Have the comments gotten any less frequent over the years? I would hope that there has been at least some progress in this area. My friend has moved often so can judge different areas but not trends over time. She did say that some places she's lived have been worse than others.

 

Yes, the comments, dirty looks, and violent behavior have decreased over the years. A Vietnam Vet customer (whom, on the whole I respect and admire) tried to choke me during a flashback while I was at work. That was in 1991 in Seattle. I did not press charges. He was ill.

 

All the other physical instances were in the 70's when I was a child and the Vietnam war was still strong in peoples minds. Still, spitting on and kicking a kid while in a grocery store is pretty low, even for a bigot.

 

I've never had any issues at all in Europe or the Middle East. Most major US cities are fine. Funny enough, Asia is actually the worst. The caste system is alive and well there. Half breeds, such as myself, are very looked down upon.

 

I live in a very remote, very conservative, area of the country now. Sadly, the few comments and looks I get now are when I'm confused for a Native American.

 

I appreciate your sentiments, but I'm good. I truly feel I'm a better person and have a better understanding of the human psyche because of it all. Makes you stronger and all that...:tongue_smilie:

[Slojo's Homeschool]

Well,

 

First I would ask whether she wants to say something (and you've heard her express this sentiment) OR you wish there were something she could say. If she hasn't asked for advice on what to say, then I'd be inclined to assume that she's already handling it as best as she can.

 

As an African American woman, my first thought is, "Well, she's been a person of color all her life (now you didn't say whether she is an immigrant or not, or has lived in this country for a long time - so these experiences may truly be new for her), none of this is new." I have yet to meet an adult person of color who "didn't know what time of day it was" at some level. So I'd be surprised if she hasn't already developed her own strategies or been in conversation with others folks from a similar background about how they have handled it. They may not be my strategies, but I'd be surprised if she hasn't already given it some thought.

 

If she wants to say something and being sarcastic back is not her style (though sometimes it's mine - bigots get no grace from me), then I like the "I beg your pardon" approach or "Interesting." My personal favorite is a teacherly, "That comment reflects poorly upon you and your family (because, actually, it does)," but that might lean too much into the sarcastic.

[ElizabethB]

Yes, the comments, dirty looks, and violent behavior have decreased over the years.

....

 

I appreciate your sentiments, but I'm good. I truly feel I'm a better person and have a better understanding of the human psyche because of it all. Makes you stronger and all that...:tongue_smilie:

 

I'm glad to hear they are decreasing, although I wish they were even fewer!

 

I'm also glad to hear you try to take the positive from it, that's quite a silver lining to find!! (I'm not sure I could, although I would hope I would try to.)

 

Well' date='

 

First I would ask whether she wants to say something (and you've heard her express this sentiment) OR you wish there were something she could say. If she hasn't asked for advice on what to say, then I'd be inclined to assume that she's already handling it as best as she can.

 

As an African American woman, my first thought is, "Well, she's been a person of color all her life (now you didn't say whether she is an immigrant or not, or has lived in this country for a long time - so these experiences may truly be new for her), none of this is new." I have yet to meet an adult person of color who "didn't know what time of day it was" at some level. So I'd be surprised if she hasn't already developed her own strategies or been in conversation with others folks from a similar background about how they have handled it. They may not be my strategies, but I'd be surprised if she hasn't already given it some thought.

 

If she wants to say something and being sarcastic back is not her style (though sometimes it's mine - bigots get no grace from me), then I like the "I beg your pardon" approach or "Interesting." My personal favorite is a teacherly, "That comment reflects poorly upon you and your family (because, actually, it does)," but that might lean too much into the sarcastic.[/quote']

 

She is a quiet person, so she has never said anything in the past.

 

She did express an interest in having a good stock comment or two to fall back on if she gets up the nerve to say something, she says she has no ideas about what to say and would appreciate it if we could think up anything useful.

[iluvmy4blessings]

I live in Texas so that wouldn't be happening here!! I will say that it's a nice thought to believe that you could say something to a racist/bigot and it would suddenly turn their entire way of thinking around but unfortunately that's probably not the case. People who have these belief systems and behaviors have them deeply ingrained and wouldn't suddenly have a complete paradigm shift because of a witty reply. If this sort of thing happens often then I wonder why they live there. There are so many places around the country to live. Here there is actually a majority of Hispanic population. Then again, wherever you go you will always find racists. I would actually not say anything at all. what if you instigate them to do more than just say something rude?

[Slojo's Homeschool]

I'm glad to hear they are decreasing, although I wish they were even fewer!

 

I'm also glad to hear you try to take the positive from it, that's quite a silver lining to find!! (I'm not sure I could, although I would hope I would try to.)

 

 

 

She is a quiet person, so she has never said anything in the past.

 

She did express an interest in having a good stock comment or two to fall back on if she gets up the nerve to say something, she says she has no ideas about what to say and would appreciate it if we could think up anything useful.

 

Then I think she might be most comfortable with "I'm sorry, I must not have heard you correctly." If the goal is to get the person to think, then having them hear their words a second time might start that process.

[pfamilygal]

I heard a couple of black teenagers using the N word behind me in Costco. I had no idea what to do, but I do not want my kids saying that.

 

So I said, rather loudly, "Children, some people are foolish and use ugly words to describe people based on their skin color instead of their hearts. Let's remember that God looks at people's hearts instead of their outsides. We don't use words like the ones these young men are using."

 

My friend had a much better comeback. He said I should have turned and politely asked them, "So, when my kids say that word in front of your grandmother, can I tell her they learned it from you?"

[Dayle in Guatemala]

Small-minded people probably wouldn't understand the sarcasm. :glare: I would just give a pointed look and walk away--not worth it.