Thoughts on Competition

[Susanah]

Every once in awhile I run into an article or a conversation villifying competition. I am curious, without setting up any particular context, what are your thoughts on competition?

[Tangerine]

I know I make an effort to not make it part of the family atmosphere. We don't eschew all traditional board games, but we have cooperative ones. We don't do the "let's see who can _____ first" to get them to do things we want. I don't know if I'm dulling a competitive edge for sports or academics outside of the home, but I know it is something I avoid at home. For what it is worth, I am pretty competitive (in things that don't matter...like Trivial Pursuit.)

[nono]

I love competitive sports but apparently not competitive life. One thing I've said so often that my kids parrot, "This is not a competition."

[....]

Our kids are extremely competitive. :glare: (I get really tired of it.) If you read Boys Adrift, it talks about how some boys absolutely thrive on competition and how all-boys schools use that to their advantage in teaching the boys. So, I see where it's important (just tiring :tongue_smilie:).

[Mom22ns]

I have such mixed emotions about competition.

 

I think kids learn a lot from competition. Not everyone wins. Doing your best is important but still doesn't guarantee a win. At some point kids have to learn how to go for a win and how to deal with losing.

 

On the other hand, I don't want everything in life to be about competition. Working together as a team and/or a family are important concepts to me too. In most of my life, I don't look for a win or loss. I don't find as a mother, teacher and volunteer that competition comes into play.

 

I guess I would just go along with the idea of a non-competitive LIFE. Have a competitive game, sport, or whatever, but let life be a cooperative effort.

[kitten18]

Our kids are extremely competitive. :glare: (I get really tired of it.) If you read Boys Adrift, it talks about how some boys absolutely thrive on competition and how all-boys schools use that to their advantage in teaching the boys. So, I see where it's important (just tiring :tongue_smilie:).

:iagree: My first thought was Boys Adrift.

[justamouse]

Read Why Gender Matters. Boys are BORN to be competitive. The author advocates same sex schools because the differences in the way boys and girls learn are so vastly different. So *some* competition is good. Training girls to get a little competitive is good. Pitting them against each other is bad.

[LibraryLover]

I don't want competition in a family beyond board games. :) Ime, some people are more naturally competitive and driven. I have two children who are very competitive (although compassionate) and two who aren't at all. The competitive ones were always driven from within. Driven people tend to find themselves pushing boundaries. Sometimes that means they find themsevles in compeition with others, even if they were not active in seeking such.

Edited September 23, 2011 by LibraryLover

[regentrude]

There are kids and adults who thrive on competition and who find this a major motivator. I, DH and DD belong to that category. In fact, that is the one thing DD dislikes about homeschooling - no academic competition in a classroom.

No, competition is not a bad thing.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Every once in awhile I run into an article or a conversation villifying competition. I am curious, without setting up any particular context, what are your thoughts on competition?

 

I think it is a good thing.

 

We go out of our way to find areas where the boys can compete both individually and as a part of a team.

 

Soccer

Baseball

XC

Lego Robotics

etc...

[Michelle O. in MO]

My 12yod thrives on competition. It motivates her like nothing else. My 9yos doesn't care either way. He just likes doing his own thing win-lose, it doesn't make or break him. I think competition at a young age, say 5-10yo, could damage a child if not done under careful supervision. Nurturing the competitive spirit without damaging the child's self-esteem and confidence can be a good thing.

[Journey]

I guess i don't understand why someone would want to participate in a sport and not be competitive. My daughter rides horses, she trains very hard, and spends HUGE amounts of time on this sport. It is NOT a hobby it is a sport and yes, she is competitive. Why wouldn't she (anyone) be. Why waste the time and money to do it if you aren't going to go someplace with it? Now that's not to say that she is a snotty brat about it, because she isn't. Sure she gets upset when she doesn't do well but when she does do well she is very gracious to those that don't do as well (and in this particular sport that's saying alot). I feel like, if you are going to spend the time to be the best you can be, then why wouldn't you be competitive.

[regentrude]

I guess i don't understand why someone would want to participate in a sport and not be competitive.

 

You mention horses- IMO that's a perfect example where it is entirely possible to love the sport but NOT compete. The hard work occurs in the relationship between rider and horse; training a horse and improving and can be very rewarding without a direct competition with other humans.

 

We rock climb and it would never occur to us to join competitions. For me, it is between me and the rock; I rejoice when I have climbed a difficult route on a beautiful cliff and it is completely irrelevant whether other people can climb harder stuff or can climb this faster.

Most hikers and canoeists are not competetive either.

 

DH and I are extremely competetive - but NOT in the area of sports. We find sports very enjoyable where the competetive aspect is nonexistent.

[ScoutTN]

I find the "everyone wins" approach to everything these days irksome.

 

I notice it most in sports and at church. I think it devalues the effort and ability of those who did the best. (Assuming there is a best and the activity is not based on luck.) I understand that competition can be done poorly and that some people find it very unmotivating. And that it is not helpful in certain contexts. But trying to make everything cooperative and everyone wins is a denial of reality, of how the world works and of human nature.

[ScoutTN]

I guess i don't understand why someone would want to participate in a sport and not be competitive.

 

Some people choose sports for the exercise, the physical and mental challenge or the social aspect - essentially for the fun of it and the health benefits. Not all athletic endeavors require competition. Team sports generally do, but things like swimming and running don't.

 

Also, there are many levels of competition. Some people may be quite happy on the lowest intensity level while others thrive on the higer levels.

[Belacqua]

I find the "everyone wins" approach to everything these days irksome.

 

I notice it most in sports and at church. I think it devalues the effort and ability of those who did the best. (Assuming there is a best and the activity is not based on luck.) I understand that competition can be done poorly and that some people find it very unmotivating. And that it is not helpful in certain contexts. But trying to make everything cooperative and everyone wins is a denial of reality, of how the world works and of human nature.

 

You make a good point, I think. I recently attended a local 10K race that included a just-for-fun kids' dash. It was charming, seeing these tiny kids make their way (sometimes a very creative way, indeed) around a track. And somebody thought to get some ribbons for them. Again, cute. But the ribbons all said "First Place" on them. Most kids didn't seem to notice, but one little boy looked at his with dismay and said, "But I wasn't first! I was fifth!" One of the organizers literally patted his head and said, "You're ALL winners!" I believe he thought she was crazy. I worry about kids being taught that losing is a source of great shame.

[Deb in NZ]

Competition is a part of life & I believe we do our dc a big disservice if we don't include it to some degree in their up-bringing. My dc are all competitive & have thrived as competition pushes them to do their best & then some. In most cases the competitions that my dc have been involved in require working as a team. When our dc apply for uni, apply for jobs, etc. they are competing against other people. They benefit from the skills they have learned earlier in how to "win or lose" gracefully. Even dating is a competition of sorts, whether we acknowledge it or not.

 

Sometimes we are competing against ourselves or a set standard (i.e. Trinity Music Exams, standardised tests, etc.) Sometimes we are competing against others individually (i.e. gymnastics, swimming, track & field, fencing, etc.) Sometimes we are competing as a team (i.e. hockey, soccer, rugby, etc.)

 

I'd like to see my dc as adults being team players who give their best effort to help the team reach their goal. Some of my dc are natural leaders, while others prefer to follow, but all 3 dc can & do lead or follow as needed. Competition has required them to learn these skills to their benefit.

 

I, too, really dislike the modern PS's idea that "everyone's a winner" & "you can never fail." This is NOT a part of the adult working world that most of us must take part in for at least some of our life.

 

JMHO,

[Ginevra]

I'm totally fine with competition, though I would not attach parental love or approval on it, but in other respects, yes, I am totally pro-competition. My husband and all his brothers are competitive with each other in a way that I think is great - iron sharpens iron.

[angela in ohio]

This is one of those things I wrestle with. I think there is a place for competition in sports and games, as it teaches skills that are needed in some places in life, but I think there is too little cooperation and too much competition in life in general.

 

I am not big on all the non-competitive sports and games. Some of the most hyper-competitive kiddos I know come from families that use those. They never learn to win or lose gracefully in their own home, so then when they do something competitive outside the home, they make everyone else miserable whether they win or lose. They pout, or they taunt.

 

Our family is very much about cooperation in many areas: we share all of our money, we share all of our belongings, we stay far away from people who are toxic and competitive about homeschooling and parenting. But we do play games with winners and losers, and we teach dc how to be both with poise, because life will demand that. I am a fan of cultures that have a greater sense of cooperation within the family unit. And I try to make sure that my dc never take something that shouldn't be competitive and make it so.

[Photo Ninja]

Competition in itself is neither good or bad. It simply exists. What makes it good or bad, or healthy or unhealthy is one's attitude towards it. Anything taken to an extreme can be unhealthy or damaging. Competition is no different.

 

Competition comes in many forms, and not everyone competes in the same way, or even cares to compete. All my dc are competitive, but in different ways. They value different activities and have varied goals. They compete against each other and against themselves, and against other, based on the activity. Other times they don't care enough to compete because it simply doesn't matter to them.

 

Two of my dc are competitive in sports. After little sister swam her first 400 IM and placed against swimmers older than her, older brother decided he would enter that event in the next meet. Yes, it was competition and he was driven only by by his younger sister having achieved something he had not. Yes, it drove him to push himself, and he achieved his goal of doing what his younger sister had done. Healthy competition. I have another ds who is an excellent swimmer with perfect form, but he didn't care if he swam fast. He could swim fast, but he saw no need to. Then the coach told him to go faster, he would ask why. She would say so he could win, and he asked why he would want to win. He really didn't care. Same with soccer. He was a great player, but he didn't care about it. But get him on stage and he was completely different. Get him to a debate tournament. This mattered to him. It was a different kind of competition. He competes, just not in athletics because athletics don't matter to him.

 

And all my dc have had boxes (tossed in to the trash) filled with medals and trophies that don't matter to them at all because they have no meaning. They are the silly "your parent paid the fee for you to do the activity and we want you to feel like a winner" awards. It's time that adults realize that life includes competition, and competition is not evil. Winning is good. Losing can also be good. My ds and dd will tell you that some of their favorite, most meaningful rounds are ones they solidly lost. But there is value in the process of competition. It comes down to attitude.

 

I would rather have distinct competition than the wimpy "everyone wins" philosophy that people tend to promote. Even children see through that. There is no self esteem built when it is facilitated by false awards. It is insulting and condescending. This attitude denies the appropriate accomplishment of being very good at something and it devalues achievement.

 

One thing that makes us laugh is bumper stickers from a couple schools. "My child is an honor student at ___ elementary." is common. But since they don't want to make any student feel bad, some schools now give away, "Every child is an honored student at _____ school". It is obvious which school are pushing the philosophy the competition is bad.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Photo Ninja

[twoforjoy]

I'm extremely non-competitive. I don't really get the competitive impulse, so when other people get really competitive about something, it pretty much baffles me, and sometimes kind of annoys me.

 

My DH is, I'd say, moderately competitive, and my DS takes after him. They'll get into a competition, but not to the point where they're just completely and totally obsessed with winning. Both of them can still manage to keep a sense of humor about things when they're feeling competitive, at least most of the time.

[Deb in NZ]

And all my dc have had boxes (tossed in to the trash) filled with medals and trophies that don't matter to them at all because they have no meaning. They are the silly "your parent paid the fee for you to do the activity and we want you to feel like a winner" awards. It's time that adults realize that life includes competition, and competition is not evil. Winning is good. Losing can also be good. My ds and dd will tell you that some of their favorite, most meaningful rounds are ones they solidly lost. But there is value in the process of competition. It comes down to attitude.

 

I would rather have distinct competition than the wimpy "everyone wins" philosophy that people tend to promote. Even children see through that. There is no self esteem built when it is facilitated by false awards. It is insulting and condescending. This attitude denies the appropriate accomplishment of being very good at something and it devalues achievement.

 

:iagree: My dc have competed in gymnastics over the years, one more intensely that the others. As we have a small number of boys competing at each level in our area, there have been competitions that getting a gold medal is a given as there is only one competitor at each level. When we saw that the boys were not really giving their best, we decided one competition to combine levels only in the presentation of medals. We had one boy each for levels 4-6. I was happy to see the attitude change immediately for each of the boys when getting gold was not a given. They each had big improvements in their scores, leading to 2 out of the 3 qualifying for Nationals. No chance of losing = no value in winning.

 

I have seen this as well at our yacht club in the centerboard competitions. We have a small number of youth sailing P-class or Starling yachts. When there is only one boat in a class in the race, not much effort is put into winning. When we had more of each class sailing the races were highly competitive & everyone had more fun, whether they won or not.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Deb in NZ

[nd293]

I'm competitive. I think it can encourage you to strive further, but at the same time, when there's no-one to compete with, or nothing to compete over, you can find yourself in a bit of a motivational vacuum. I think much of my sense of purposelessness with being a homeschooling, stay-at-home mother is about needing some external reference of success. This year I've worked at setting small goals for myself, and I'm finding satisfaction in that.

 

So ... I think competition has its place. I think every child should be exposed to it enough to learn how to be gracious in both winning and losing (and success and failure more generally). I also think it is a major problem if personal motivation comes only from external competition.

[twoforjoy]

I would rather have distinct competition than the wimpy "everyone wins" philosophy that people tend to promote. Even children see through that. There is no self esteem built when it is facilitated by false awards. It is insulting and condescending. This attitude denies the appropriate accomplishment of being very good at something and it devalues achievement.

 

I think that's a false dichotomy. I also think that the things we encourage competition in are, quite frankly, usually not very important or productive things, and are things that, in the end, it doesn't really matter if anybody is very good at. I don't remember kids in my school getting really competitive about who could learn the most in a class, but competitive over who could get the highest GPA. Those are two very different things, and the competition over GPA generally involved trying to figure out how to best "game" the system. And, I remember many more people being competitive over whose team could win the gym volleyball tournament than over GPA. I'm assuming nobody could even remember the following marking period who had won that tournament, much less remember it now.

 

We get competitive over grades, not learning. We get competitive over scores, not sportsmanship. I don't think we get competitive over the things that really matter. I don't see much value in being really good at something that doesn't matter all that much--or that matters in ways that I think are not-so-good--so I'm not going to cry over kids not being made to feel extra special because they get higher grades than other people or are better at sports. I got high grades, and it's not something I deserved accolades over. But I tend to find the emphasis we put on achievement, affluence, and appearance in our culture very disturbing.

 

I don't particularly like the "everybody wins" philosophy, but that's because I prefer the "who the heck cares who wins because it's just a game/number anyway?" philosophy.

 

One thing that makes us laugh is bumper stickers from a couple schools. "My child is an honor student at ___ elementary." is common. But since they don't want to make any student feel bad, some schools now give away, "Every child is an honored student at _____ school". It is obvious which school are pushing the philosophy the competition is bad.

 

Huh. I'd want every child to be honored at a school. If we believe that each child is made in the image of God, or has inherent worth and dignity, or anything to that effect, certainly a school honoring each child would be a good thing. I don't think those schools are saying that competition is bad, but just that there are things more important than competition. I'd say that a school respecting and honoring each student is more important than showering praise or awards on a few students who excel at certain things the school culture has deemed impressive.

 

But I've never gotten the annoyance people feel over certain people not being singled out as extra-special. If you are truly great at something, and that something really matters (matters in a way that makes a real difference in your life or the lives of others, rather than just being something that only matters because of the praise you get for it), then it doesn't matter if you are singled out for accolades or not; just being great at that thing is its own reward. And if you need somebody handing you a trophy or telling you how great you are for being really good at something to matter, then that thing you are really good at probably doesn't matter much, and so you shouldn't be that invested in it anyway.

Edited September 24, 2011 by twoforjoy

[PeacefulChaos]

I find the "everyone wins" approach to everything these days irksome.

 

I notice it most in sports and at church. I think it devalues the effort and ability of those who did the best. (Assuming there is a best and the activity is not based on luck.) I understand that competition can be done poorly and that some people find it very unmotivating. And that it is not helpful in certain contexts. But trying to make everything cooperative and everyone wins is a denial of reality, of how the world works and of human nature.

:iagree:

You make a good point, I think. I recently attended a local 10K race that included a just-for-fun kids' dash. It was charming, seeing these tiny kids make their way (sometimes a very creative way, indeed) around a track. And somebody thought to get some ribbons for them. Again, cute. But the ribbons all said "First Place" on them. Most kids didn't seem to notice, but one little boy looked at his with dismay and said, "But I wasn't first! I was fifth!" One of the organizers literally patted his head and said, "You're ALL winners!" I believe he thought she was crazy. I worry about kids being taught that losing is a source of great shame.

:iagree:

 

I'm all for competition. At home, in sports, at church, anywhere.

Our community soccer league does medals for everyone who plays soccer. I'm kind of like whatever on that... at least they aren't all getting the big trophy, its like a participation award. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but it is still not needed.

DS5 doesn't really care all that much. He's happy to win, but he's more interested in having fun along the way at this point. DS7 most definitely cares, though! And with him, he needs to have competition now so that we can work with him on learning to lose gracefully. He's a perfectionist, so he can be really hard on himself and really disappointed (and dramatic! :lol: ) when he doesn't win (or when he misses a goal, back when he played soccer, etc). We played a game of Monopoly Jr. a week or two ago, and DS5 won. DS7 really is working on it, but he couldn't hide his disappointment and walked into the other room and cried (did I mention dramatic? :tongue_smilie: ). He needs times where we work on this - yes, it is ok to lose, it is ok to be disappointed, etc. And then how to deal with it and not let it get you down, kwim? (In the meantime, DS5 was so worried about offending DS7 that he couldn't even be happy about winning! Such a little peacemaker...)

The everyone wins approach is just really bad imo. I kind of feel like that is contributing to a lot of the self centered teenagers and young adults that we are seeing nowadays. (Like I'm so old... :lol: ) Like, we'll succeed at anything, we're always winners, we never fail, etc. Idk, I may be wrong. It just seems like a huge part of the culture now...

[Nscribe]

When you go to the store, you don't buy every brand to make all the manufacturers feel better. When an employer hires for a spot in his/her firm, they don't hire every applicant. Hopefully, people don't marry multiple multiple partners in order to prevent one potential mate from being a winner and another not.

 

Life involves selectivity and choices with some degree of picking "winners" and "losers" appearing throughout our daily lives. We vote, shop, invite...

 

Learning to be a good sportsman, gracious, ethical and how to accept wins and losses is part of the "game" of life.

[Heather in Neverland]

When you go to the store, you don't buy every brand to make all the manufacturers feel better. When an employer hires for a spot in his/her firm, they don't hire every applicant. Hopefully, people don't marry multiple multiple partners in order to prevent one potential mate from being a winner and another not.

 

Life involves selectivity and choices with some degree of picking "winners" and "losers" appearing throughout our daily lives. We vote, shop, invite...

 

Learning to be a good sportsman, gracious, ethical and how to accept wins and losses is part of the "game" of life.

 

:iagree:

 

The everyone wins philosophy gets on my nerves. But I'm a pretty competitive person. :D

[SKL]

I think it's in-born to some degree. It has arisen among my daughters without my encouraging it at all. (Like others have mentioned, I don't like it most of the time in my house. I don't mind it if they are racing to see who gets dressed first in the morning, though ;).)

 

Given that competition is as in-born as the desire to walk and eat, there is no point demonizing it. Better to offer positive ways to channel it. I would never push my child into competing, but if she wants to join a competitive sport and maintains good attitudes / sportsmanship, I will not oppose it.

 

Competition is part of adult life, but I am not sure we really have to overtly teach kids how to compete to win. A strong foundation of knowledge and principles is enough for career success generally.

[Guest Aardvark9]

I think if we want to have cooperation we need to understand competition.

[Heather in Neverland]

I find the "everyone wins" approach to everything these days irksome.

 

I notice it most in sports and at church. I think it devalues the effort and ability of those who did the best. (Assuming there is a best and the activity is not based on luck.) I understand that competition can be done poorly and that some people find it very unmotivating. And that it is not helpful in certain contexts. But trying to make everything cooperative and everyone wins is a denial of reality, of how the world works and of human nature.

 

Interesting that this thread gets resurrected on the same day I have a conversation with the other administrators at our school about the upcoming honors banquet. One of them feels that every student should get an award of some sort. I do not feel that way. I even thought about this thread and here it is. Hmmm....

Edited January 7, 2012 by Heather in NC

[6packofun]

I love competitive sports but apparently not competitive life.

 

This is a great way to put it. Within the right context, competition is totally appropriate and a great motivator to do one's best! But in regular life, in most aspects of school and relationships, I don't see a place for it. A small person needs to prove something all the time; I'm raising my kids, I hope, to be bigger people than that. To value *important* things, important ideas, and important successes.

[Sweetpeach]

This is one of those things I wrestle with. I think there is a place for competition in sports and games, as it teaches skills that are needed in some places in life, but I think there is too little cooperation and too much competition in life in general.

 

I am not big on all the non-competitive sports and games. Some of the most hyper-competitive kiddos I know come from families that use those. They never learn to win or lose gracefully in their own home, so then when they do something competitive outside the home, they make everyone else miserable whether they win or lose. They pout, or they taunt.

 

Our family is very much about cooperation in many areas: we share all of our money, we share all of our belongings, we stay far away from people who are toxic and competitive about homeschooling and parenting. But we do play games with winners and losers, and we teach dc how to be both with poise, because life will demand that. I am a fan of cultures that have a greater sense of cooperation within the family unit. And I try to make sure that my dc never take something that shouldn't be competitive and make it so.

 

I really like what Angela in NC has to say about this topic.

 

Learning to compete is a marvelous adventure for young people. They figure out quickly that there is always going to be someone a bit stronger, faster, smarter, more able than they are. Somewhere, they learn that training becomes a competition with themselves and they have to fight against that little voice in their head that says: quit, stop, this is too hard. They learn how to stare down the weakness that wants to give up and figure out how to press into it. I believe competition refines people and helps them to win well and lose graciously.

 

Like Angela, the people who I sense are competitive about how they parent, how they school, how their kids are turning out, etc etc etc -- I also stay far far away from those folks. I want to love and teach my kids in a way that feels right for me. Nobody can tell me what that should like because they aren't me!

 

Yes to competition contained in the proper arena.

No to competition/comparison in life.

 

Warmly, Tricia