Woman, please stop your 9 year old from pinching and slapping other kids!

[Nakia]

There is a child in Emma's dance class who pinches and slaps the other girls. Two weeks ago, Emma accidentally stepped on her foot in ballet class, and the little girls clawed Emma's arm, enough to draw blood. Emma didn't tell anyone, and the teacher didn't see it. I saw it when we got home, and I immediately called the owner of the studio. She told me that this is not the first time, and she would talk to the teacher and call the girl's mother. She was very apologetic. Well, yesterday, the child pinched another little girl. She also told that same little girl that she is terrible at dance and that there is no way she is getting a part in the Christmas musical. ARGH!!!

 

I don't know what is typically done in these cases, on the studio's part. I would hate for her to be dismissed from the studio, in a way, because that would just be sad, and she is very talented. But it's not fair to the other girls for their to be a bully in the class. My girls have taken a lot of classes at this studio, and we love it, but this is a first for us. I've told Emma to stay away from this kid and let the teacher know ASAP if she touches Emma again. Barring developmental delays, shouldn't a 9 year old be able to control herself better than this?

 

Anyway, just a rant.

[Momto3indians]

...your daughter doesn't have to know that you called her teacher. If the teacher is above board, then she could handle that in confidence. If anything, just to be 'aware' and 'watchful' for any strange behavior from that young lady. It is beneficial to the teacher to not be in the dark over a matter like that. You don't even have to make a big deal over it..just 'let her know' for 'letting her know sake'.

[Impish]

The kid needs to be suspended from a class or two. If she can't keep her hands to herself, she needs a serious consequence. The other kids have the right not to be assaulted.

[lailasmum]

I would have thought a 9 yr old should have had more self control.

 

It reminds me of an 11 yr old boy who came a few times to a home education group I run. He went around telling every one how stupid they were and how rubbish their piece of work was (we did a lot of arts and crafts at that stage) and just had a real bullying attitude. It was getting to be a real issue because he did it to everyone including the special needs kids who really didn't need to hear it. In the end he just stopped coming we never really found out why but it saved me needing to talk to his parents.

[Impish]

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

Seriously? An accidental step on the foot is worthy of drawing blood?

 

I could see it from a toddler, but not a 9 yo, even if an apology wasn't instant. 9 yos have verbal skills.

 

Not to mention that according to the owner, its not the first time, and the child then pinched another in a following class.

[Tarreymere]

Why should a child have to put up with being clawed by another child? That nine year old is old enough to know what she is doing. If an adult did that to you, you would press charges, but it is okay to tell your child to 'watch out and stay away from her'?

By ignoring the behavior and asking the teacher to 'watch' for it, that kid is being enabled. At the very least the studio should have a long talk with the mother, and then with the mother and the girl and let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. There should be very clear consequences for a repeat offense, like suspension or expulsion.

If it were my kid being clawed, I would insist on watching each class like a hawk and if that girl hurt anyone again I would let them know I was removing my child from the program and why.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

 

Huh? And that is acceptable behavior from a 9yo? Really? So if someone bumps into me at Target and doesn't apologize, I can deck her? Mmm, I think not - probably get arrested.

[Mert]

If it were my kid being clawed, I would insist on watching each class like a hawk and if that girl hurt anyone again I would let them know I was removing my child from the program and why.

 

I would want to observe just to keep my child safe, but I would also let the director know that I was thinking of finding a different studio. In a business like this the real power is in your dollars. You might make more of an impact with the director (especially if more than one family speaks up), if s/he knows that you're considering going somewhere else if this continues. In this world of educating children, there's a real balance to be found between doing what's right for the children and families and paying the bills. The thing that might tip the scale is letting them know that they might be losing your tuition and maybe those of others in the class.

[Nakia]

...your daughter doesn't have to know that you called her teacher. If the teacher is above board, then she could handle that in confidence. If anything, just to be 'aware' and 'watchful' for any strange behavior from that young lady. It is beneficial to the teacher to not be in the dark over a matter like that. You don't even have to make a big deal over it..just 'let her know' for 'letting her know sake'.

 

The owner did speak to the teacher after the child clawed my daughter. The next ballet class, as far as I know, was uneventful.

 

The kid needs to be suspended from a class or two. If she can't keep her hands to herself, she needs a serious consequence. The other kids have the right not to be assaulted.

 

That's a good idea. I am anxious to see what happens this time. This was at least the 3rd offense.

 

I would have thought a 9 yr old should have had more self control.

 

It reminds me of an 11 yr old boy who came a few times to a home education group I run. He went around telling every one how stupid they were and how rubbish their piece of work was (we did a lot of arts and crafts at that stage) and just had a real bullying attitude. It was getting to be a real issue because he did it to everyone including the special needs kids who really didn't need to hear it. In the end he just stopped coming we never really found out why but it saved me needing to talk to his parents.

 

Bullies suck!

 

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

 

Ummm...okay. FWIW, yes, my dd did apologize immediately for stepping on her foot. Even if she had not, there is NO excuse for violent behavior. What do you mean "how she is being treated?" It was an accident.

 

Why should a child have to put up with being clawed by another child? That nine year old is old enough to know what she is doing. If an adult did that to you, you would press charges, but it is okay to tell your child to 'watch out and stay away from her'?

By ignoring the behavior and asking the teacher to 'watch' for it, that kid is being enabled. At the very least the studio should have a long talk with the mother, and then with the mother and the girl and let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. There should be very clear consequences for a repeat offense, like suspension or expulsion.

If it were my kid being clawed, I would insist on watching each class like a hawk and if that girl hurt anyone again I would let them know I was removing my child from the program and why.

 

The studio owner did talk with the mother and the class teacher. I said that in my op. Now that there has been a 3rd incident, I'm not sure what will happen. I think telling my dd to stay away from her is appropriate. I cannot be in the class because I have my other children with me. IF this child touches my child again, I will remove her from the program. I will not tolerate my dd being abused.

 

Seriously? An accidental step on the foot is worthy of drawing blood?

 

I could see it from a toddler, but not a 9 yo, even if an apology wasn't instant. 9 yos have verbal skills.

 

Not to mention that according to the owner, its not the first time, and the child then pinched another in a following class.

 

Exactly!

 

Huh? And that is acceptable behavior from a 9yo? Really? So if someone bumps into me at Target and doesn't apologize, I can deck her? Mmm, I think not - probably get arrested.

 

Yep.

[Nakia]

I would want to observe just to keep my child safe, but I would also let the director know that I was thinking of finding a different studio. In a business like this the real power is in your dollars. You might make more of an impact with the director (especially if more than one family speaks up), if s/he knows that you're considering going somewhere else if this continues. In this world of educating children, there's a real balance to be found between doing what's right for the children and families and paying the bills. The thing that might tip the scale is letting them know that they might be losing your tuition and maybe those of others in the class.

 

There is only one other studio in our area, and it is horrible. Rich, snobby, competitive moms and kids. Not our taste. But if it happens to my dd again, we will leave the studio.

[HistoryMom]

That stinks. I've been there. We were at the pool at a lot this summer, and there was one boy who persisted in bullying the other kids. I never could identify his parents. I watched him, and when he did it again, I went straight up to him and said sternly, "Hey, that's not OK. Apologize at once, and then leave the other kids alone." He was pouty about it, but it worked. He would occasionally sneak a glance up at me to see if I was watching, and I was, so he would play nice. That probably qualifies as disciplining someone else's kid but if the parent isn't doing it, I'll do it for the common good. That's how I roll. :)

 

If I were you, I'd speak to the teacher about it just before the next class, and I'd speak up right away if I saw anything else happen. It needs to be a safe environment.

[Miss Peregrine]

There is only one other studio in our area, and it is horrible. Rich, snobby, competitive moms and kids. Not our taste. But if it happens to my dd again, we will leave the studio.

 

Why should you have to leave? I would put pressure on the owner to make the bully leave if it doesn't stop.

[Mert]

Why should you have to leave? I would put pressure on the owner to make the bully leave if it doesn't stop.

 

I would at least suggest it and give the director a chance to do that before leaving. So sorry you and your daughter are having to deal with this just to take a dance class!

[Farrar]

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

 

It's really sad to me when parents have this attitude.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm normally on the side of the 9yo with my ds. What I don't get is how or why the kid's parent(s) didn't see or do anything! My ds is never in classes/events/activities alone. He is just not well behaved enough.

[Caraway]

Could the studio require the girl's mother to be present for the class?

[lcelmer]

There is only one other studio in our area, and it is horrible. Rich, snobby, competitive moms and kids. Not our taste. But if it happens to my dd again, we will leave the studio.

 

 

Be sure to let the teacher AND owner know that this is serious enough for you to consider leaving. She should suspend/remove the offending child, and that is the right course of action. The abusive child's family could always pay for private lessons for a while, until the behavior changes. If you do leave, I would formally complain in writing first.

[momma aimee]

The kid needs to be suspended from a class or two. If she can't keep her hands to herself, she needs a serious consequence. The other kids have the right not to be assaulted.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Geo]

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

 

:001_huh:Oh, well, in that case.......:glare:

[8circles]

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

 

Yes, she is. But doing it in this way is in no way appropriate for a 9 year-old. Its a dance class, toes will be stepped on.

[Sputterduck]

If y'all are inferring that I am saying it is appropriate, y'all should stop. I am making no conclusion, because I don't know where the child is developmentally. At 9, the behavior could be appropriate for her development stage. Like MargaretinCo, I too had a 9 who had to get physical to stop being pounded on, when words would not work. I intervened and cued the staff for satisfactory resolution.

 

I'm still wondering if the child receive an apology after her toes were stepped on? Two wrongs don't make a right and it is never appropriate to badmouth someone else's child, much less give tacit permission to physically target that one. Given that she's gone physical in the response, she likely feels targetted. Appropriate inclusion, not exclusion, with the staff's involvement should be the goal.

 

The OP already said that her daughter apologized right away.

 

It's not developmentally appropriate for *any* child to draw blood from another child. Ever. Not at 9. Not at 2. Not at any age.

[Mothersweets]

Why should you have to leave? I would put pressure on the owner to make the bully leave if it doesn't stop.

 

Exactly! Your daughter is not the problem - the other girl is!

[Tangerine]

That was answered.

 

I'm still wondering if the child receive an apology after her toes were stepped on?

 

 

 

Ummm...okay. FWIW, yes, my dd did apologize immediately for stepping on her foot. Even if she had not, there is NO excuse for violent behavior. What do you mean "how she is being treated?" It was an accident.

 

 

 

[elfgivas]

fwiw, the child may have other difficulties she is dealing with. at our dance studio, we have dealt with developmental delays by having an older child in the room as a demonstrator, or as a buddy to the child who needs one. just that extra pair of hands and eyes has made it possible for everyone to dance safely and mostly in peace.

 

:grouphug: its hard.

ann

[Nakia]

If y'all are inferring that I am saying it is appropriate, y'all should stop. I am making no conclusion, because I don't know where the child is developmentally. At 9, the behavior could be appropriate for her development stage. Like MargaretinCo, I too had a 9 who had to get physical to stop being pounded on, when words would not work. I intervened and cued the staff for satisfactory resolution.

 

I'm still wondering if the child receive an apology after her toes were stepped on? Two wrongs don't make a right and it is never appropriate to badmouth someone else's child, much less give tacit permission to physically target that one. Given that she's gone physical in the response, she likely feels targetted. Appropriate inclusion, not exclusion, with the staff's involvement should be the goal.

 

Not to be insulting, but I feel like we are on different planets or something. I already said my daughter apologized immediately. It was an accident. My child came out BLEEDING! I never encouraged my dd to target anyone; I don't know where you got that. And not a single person badmouthed the kid. In fact, I said I would hate to see her dismissed from studio.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Nakia

[Mommy22alyns]

Why should you have to leave? I would put pressure on the owner to make the bully leave if it doesn't stop.

 

 

This. And yes, a 9 yo should have MUCH better self-control than that.

[SKL]

I'd consider 2 possiblities. (1) your child's "accidental" step on that child's foot might not have been a one-time thing; they might have been mutually engaging each other (possibly for fun) over time, and this time it went too far. (2) the child could have special needs that make it harder for her to control her impulses. If it doesn't stop, a discussion with the other mom may be in order. I'd hear her out before pushing for the child to be dismissed from the class.

[scrapbabe]

When that happens at our karate studio (rarely) my husband (the head instructor) tells the parent this child is done for the day and he/she needs to be taken home. If the parent isn't there the child has to sit out on the side of the mat.

[Nakia]

I'd consider 2 possiblities. (1) your child's "accidental" step on that child's foot might not have been a one-time thing; they might have been mutually engaging each other (possibly for fun) over time, and this time it went too far. (2) the child could have special needs that make it harder for her to control her impulses. If it doesn't stop, a discussion with the other mom may be in order. I'd hear her out before pushing for the child to be dismissed from the class.

 

You are correct that it could have been just like you described in #1, except for the fact that it wasn't. I am not the kind of mother to say "oh my child would never", but this is my really reserved, quiet, meek child. And I believe what she told me. The other child has no obvious special needs, but I know that doesn't mean she doesn't have something going on.

 

Let me be really clear about something. I did not ask for this child to be dismissed from the class. I sincerely hope it can be resolved without those extremes. I came here just to rant a bit. I am frustrated. I do appreciate all of your responses. It is really nice to come here and have others share their advice and view on things.

[Joanne]

Was there an apology given seconds after the acccidental stepping? If not, the other child is just expressing her anger and frustration with how she is being treated and trying to stop it from happening again.

 

 

I was hoping this post was a joke that did not transmit well in this medium.

 

 

If y'all are inferring that I am saying it is appropriate, y'all should stop. I am making no conclusion, because I don't know where the child is developmentally. At 9, the behavior could be appropriate for her development stage. Like MargaretinCo, I too had a 9 who had to get physical to stop being pounded on, when words would not work. I intervened and cued the staff for satisfactory resolution.

 

I'm still wondering if the child receive an apology after her toes were stepped on? Two wrongs don't make a right and it is never appropriate to badmouth someone else's child, much less give tacit permission to physically target that one. Given that she's gone physical in the response, she likely feels targetted. Appropriate inclusion, not exclusion, with the staff's involvement should be the goal.

 

No. That level of intensity of aggression is NOT developmentally expected. Assuming there are no undiagnoses/unacknowledged special neeeds, this is clearly over the line and outside of norms.

 

While I understand and acknowledge the point that a sudden, unexpected physical pain creates an instinctive reaction. 9 year olds should be able to channel that.

 

The apology is a red herring to the violence.

[Laurie4b]

Just a comment: there are some kids with special needs who have difficulty interpreting social cues, so that they can actually interpret as aggression what other kids of the same age would (correctly) interpret as an accident. It doesn't justify their behavior and it must be checked, but it's easier to understand it if you're aware that their brain's wiring is off and they are actually perceiving themselves as attacked. And since it is not that uncommon to get stepped on, bumped into, etc. in some sports, dance, etc., it can seem to the kid like he or she is under constant attack. This may or may not be the case with this girl. She might just be a mean bully. And even if there are special needs, it's still very important that adults set limits on the behavior, but also , that she get help with recognizing the difference between accidental contact and intentional contact. (It is really hard for some kids to 'get" this, IQ notwithstanding.) Sometimes kids with that disability can still participate if things are set up so that they have extra space, etc. so they are less likely to experience accidental contact. Kids I've seen this with difficulty have had ADHD, Aspergers or high functioning autism. (Not all kids with those diagnoses have trouble with this, but some do.)

[SKL]

The other child has no obvious special needs, but I know that doesn't mean she doesn't have something going on.

 

I think the fact that the child does this kind of thing a lot, to multiple kids, for no apparent good reason, is a red flag.