any thoughts on evenflo's apology?

[tearose]

I don't know if any of you saw Evenflo's breastfeeding video before the company took it down (there's a summary here: http://www.phdinparenting.com/2011/09/05/when-a-company-goes-from-good-to-very-very-bad-the-evenflo-story/ ), but I thought that it was in pretty poor taste. I'm not sure that I'd call the company's response on Facebook an apology, either:

We appreciate your feedback and take it seriously. As an organization of moms, sisters, aunts & grandmas, we believe it is important to support all moms’ choices, whether it is to breastfeed, pump, use a bottle or a combination of options. We live breastfeeding every day in our roles here: from product integrity engineers to designers. Our intent in sharing the video was to spark a conversation through lively humor. However, we’ve heard your concerns and have decided to take down this video.

 

Before this, their FB page had some questionable posts (officially from the company), too, like:

 

Yay or nay – breastfeeding in public? If forced to feed on-the-go, where do you feel most comfortable feeding?

 

Rene Syler, aka GOOD ENOUGH MOTHER here with another savvy tip. If you’re breastfeeding your newborn, learn how to “let go.” By that, I mean pump a little milk and turn that bundle of joy over to your mother-in-law or another adoring family member for a midday feeding. Let them bond with the baby; you do the same with your bed ;)

 

I am not a terribly zealous breastfeeding advocate. I had a lot of problems but stuck it out for a year because I felt it was better for my child; however, I never found it to be the warm, fuzzy, rewarding sort of thing that some women experience. But for some reason, Evenflo's tactics just seem to be rubbing me the wrong way.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Yes, it does seem to be a smarmy way of undermining breastfeeding success. Liken it to homeschooling:

 

"Here is the number to the school just in case you need a break and need to enroll them." :glare:

[MrsBasil]

I can't see the video and I understand about being annoyed by suggestions to pump just so someone else gets a turn to feed the baby, but some women do find nursing in public to be embarrassing or difficult.

 

I hate it. I hate nursing in front of my in laws, father, grandparents, at church, and so on. I'm happy I found a pump this time around and assume that the marketing of the pump as a tool is aimed at women like me.

[Tangerine]

Wanna pump? Need to pump? I'm glad there are products making it easier, rather than hand expressing. But reinforcing the idea that one should be embarrassed to nurse in front of relatives? Boo. Alas, there is no money in it for them unless they can get a product in between your milk ducts and the baby's mouth.

[Sputterduck]

Yes, it does seem to be a smarmy way of undermining breastfeeding success. Liken it to homeschooling:

 

"Here is the number to the school just in case you need a break and need to enroll them." :glare:

 

Yes, and learn to let go. Turn your your bundle of joy over to caring teachers for a bit of schooling. After all, some mothers, in the end, just aren't up to homeschooling. Let them teach your child; you do the same with your bed.

 

Yuck.

[Lily_Grace]

I dislike Evenflo as a company and this just adds to it. Their car seat safety reputation is horrific; the thought that they'd try to undermine breastfeeding isn't shocking in the least. They're out to sell products, not to care about families. Their responses to previous problems led me to ban their products from my house.

[Teachin'Mine]

The only way they make money on their pump is if moms buy it. Maybe there are too many moms not needing their product, so they're trying to encourage more to give it a go. Their tactics are terrible!

[tearose]

I dislike Evenflo as a company and this just adds to it. Their car seat safety reputation is horrific; the thought that they'd try to undermine breastfeeding isn't shocking in the least. They're out to sell products, not to care about families. Their responses to previous problems led me to ban their products from my house.

 

 

I haven't had any experience with their products, but I was pretty happy with my Ameda pump (I worked one day a week when I nursed DS), and I know that Evenflo bought Ameda a few years ago. I did some googling, and I guess I wonder how independent Evenflo's subsidiaries are:

 

http://www.ameda.com/ameda-difference/what-ameda-position-who-code

 

This part of the statement explains Evenflo's change in tactics, though:

Why did Evenflo recently stop complying with the WHO Code?

Evenflo made additions to its feeding line and felt it was important to educate parents about the new innovative products available to them, particularly during this time of dynamic change and technological advances in the infant-feeding market. With this in mind, Evenflo decided to enhance its marketing of certain bottles and nipples, an action that may not allow it to maintain its compliance with the Code. Evenflo’s decision does not affect its commitment to breastfeeding research and support of the lactation community, nor does it affect the practices of Ameda, which will continue to comply fully with the spirit of the WHO Code.

[Slartibartfast]

Medela has also been violating the WHO code.

[Tangerine]

this time of dynamic change and technological advances in the infant-feeding market

 

That just sounds silly to me.

[Dmmetler]

As someone who exclusively pumped (due to having a preemie who, by the time she could physically nurse, had no desire to do so because milk came from a bottle easier), I have to say-finding a place and being able to pump away from home is a HECK of a lot harder than nursing in public. And it's a lot easier to handle nursing than to store/carry breast milk (yes, it stays fresh longer than formula, but you still don't want to leave it at room temperature for hours on end), too.

 

I'm very glad I was able to pump for my daughter so that she was exclusively breast-milk fed until she was ready to start solids, and got breast milk until age 2, but if I were ever to have another biological child, I really HOPE I'm able to nurse this time!!

[Jennifer3141]

That just sounds silly to me.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

It sounds insane. I want my breasts to go through some dynamic changes too!! :D

[Tangerine]

:iagree::iagree:

 

It sounds insane. I want my breasts to go through some dynamic changes too!! :D

 

 

Hee hee hee. :lol:

[PeacefulChaos]

I don't know if any of you saw Evenflo's breastfeeding video before the company took it down (there's a summary here: http://www.phdinparenting.com/2011/09/05/when-a-company-goes-from-good-to-very-very-bad-the-evenflo-story/ ), but I thought that it was in pretty poor taste. I'm not sure that I'd call the company's response on Facebook an apology, either:

 

 

Before this, their FB page had some questionable posts (officially from the company), too, like:

 

 

 

I am not a terribly zealous breastfeeding advocate. I had a lot of problems but stuck it out for a year because I felt it was better for my child; however, I never found it to be the warm, fuzzy, rewarding sort of thing that some women experience. But for some reason, Evenflo's tactics just seem to be rubbing me the wrong way.

 

Hmm...well I can't see the video.

As far as the comments on fb...I don't necessarily disagree. I'm not trying to be rude or snarky, I promise!!! I just don't see what is bad about not having to be the only person who can possibly feed my child. I know that sounds terrible! But it just doesn't appeal to me, personally. I like that I could just hand a bottle to whomever during busy times and they can feed the baby. I still fed them most of the time but to me it takes a lot of pressure off of having to be the ONLY one. I know not everyone feels like that. It's just my opinion and experience. And I also know that some breastfeeding moms are awesome at it - that sounds weird :lol: but what I'm saying is that, like, I had a family member who was seriously stressed over it all the time. She wouldn't let other people feed the baby with a bottle, even if she had one available. She would never leave the baby at all, for a LONG time! I know a lot of that may not have to do with how she chose to feed her baby, and there are attachment things there as well, but I guess what really got me about it was that she was always so STRESSED over it. Like she was doing it because she felt like she had to, kwim? Like in her mind was this perfect mom-woman, who followed formula xyz in order to have perfect children, etc.

I'm totally pro breastfeeding, don't get me wrong. I actually would have liked to breastfeed DD!! But her NICU stay made that pretty impossible - I could have done it had I really committed to it, but there was so much going on...anyway, I guess to me a woman should do what she wants to do and what works for her family instead of being pressured to do either. So I guess I just went in a great big circle... :tongue_smilie:

[Tangerine]

Hmm...well I can't see the video.

As far as the comments on fb...I don't necessarily disagree. I'm not trying to be rude or snarky, I promise!!! I just don't see what is bad about not having to be the only person who can possibly feed my child. I know that sounds terrible! But it just doesn't appeal to me, personally. I like that I could just hand a bottle to whomever during busy times and they can feed the baby. I still fed them most of the time but to me it takes a lot of pressure off of having to be the ONLY one. I know not everyone feels like that. It's just my opinion and experience. And I also know that some breastfeeding moms are awesome at it - that sounds weird :lol: but what I'm saying is that, like, I had a family member who was seriously stressed over it all the time. She wouldn't let other people feed the baby with a bottle, even if she had one available. She would never leave the baby at all, for a LONG time! I know a lot of that may not have to do with how she chose to feed her baby, and there are attachment things there as well, but I guess what really got me about it was that she was always so STRESSED over it. Like she was doing it because she felt like she had to, kwim? Like in her mind was this perfect mom-woman, who followed formula xyz in order to have perfect children, etc.

I'm totally pro breastfeeding, don't get me wrong. I actually would have liked to breastfeed DD!! But her NICU stay made that pretty impossible - I could have done it had I really committed to it, but there was so much going on...anyway, I guess to me a woman should do what she wants to do and what works for her family instead of being pressured to do either. So I guess I just went in a great big circle... :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't think anyone (here anyway) is suggesting it is bad to pump and bottle feed. I think the complaint is that the videos were perpetuating the notion that one should feel embarrassed or uncomfortable nursing in front of people. I think feeling good about your choice, either way, is great. But for evenflo to try to make women feel uncomfortable with theirs, in order to sell a product, is pretty questionable.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I'm an IBCLC ( lactation consultant) so I think you can figure out how I feel about Evenflo

[Unicorn.]

I didn't see the video, but based on the comments, I don't think an apology was even warranted. They are trying to sell bottles and breast pumps. LLL is awful about trying to make non-nursing mothers feel guilty. Personally, I think LLL should apologize to a lot of women.

[Rosie_0801]

I just don't see what is bad about not having to be the only person who can possibly feed my child.

 

Nothing is wrong with that. The suggestion that feeding our own children is kind of selfish is what grates.

 

I had a family member who was seriously stressed over it all the time. She wouldn't let other people feed the baby with a bottle, even if she had one available. She would never leave the baby at all, for a LONG time! I know a lot of that may not have to do with how she chose to feed her baby, and there are attachment things there as well, but I guess what really got me about it was that she was always so STRESSED over it. Like she was doing it because she felt like she had to, kwim? Like in her mind was this perfect mom-woman, who followed formula xyz in order to have perfect children, etc.

 

Some of us do exactly this because we do, indeed, think we have to. It's not because we think we'll get perfect children if we follow the formula, but because we think we are doing the right thing! Sure it is stressful, but the answer might not be to stop doing it. If my claiming-to-be-concerned relatives actually wanted to relieve my stress, they could have supported me in doing what I felt I needed to do; and I still think it was the right thing. A lot of parenting is like this, I think. Who hasn't thought "I'd rather be alone on a tropical island somewhere, but I'll grind my teeth and soldier on." :rolleyes:

 

Rosie

[Tangerine]

Some of us do exactly this because we do, indeed, think we have to. It's not because we think we'll get perfect children if we follow the formula, but because we think we are doing the right thing! Sure it is stressful, but the answer might not be to stop doing it. If my claiming-to-be-concerned relatives actually wanted to relieve my stress, they could have supported me in doing what I felt I needed to do; and I still think it was the right thing. A lot of parenting is like this, I think. Who hasn't thought "I'd rather be alone on a tropical island somewhere, but I'll grind my teeth and soldier on." :rolleyes:

 

Rosie

 

Oh, preach it sister!

[Rosie_0801]

Oh, preach it sister!

 

Oh don't mind me. I just have a bee in my bonnet. My dear grandmother used to babysit for my aunt at least three days a week, yet when they left town, she couldn't come and take my dd for a walk for an hour a week. I didn't need anyone to take my baby for a whole day. I didn't need to drop her off at creche for a whole day. I needed someone to come and take her for a walk once a week. And I got into trouble for not accepting help! As I tried to explain, if you have a headache and someone offers you a bandaid, you say "no thanks." If all the family gossipers were as concerned about me as they were claiming to be, one of them could have shown up and taken my baby for a walk!

 

That's the bummer about moving away from friends. If we'd been able to stay put, I would have had help from at least one friend. She used to invite me for dinner and I'd end up cooking it while she bathed her baby. :lol:

 

It'd be nice if people had enough energy to be supportive, that's all. If someone wants to put their child in creche, good on them. If someone doesn't want to, good on them. Both women would do a better job of what they were trying to do if someone would show up now and then to wash a few dishes or take the baby for a walk. Or if they can't manage that, they could keep quiet and let us go mad in peace.

 

Rosie

Edited September 7, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[Audrey]

 

 

Some of us do exactly this because we do, indeed, think we have to. It's not because we think we'll get perfect children if we follow the formula, but because we think we are doing the right thing! Sure it is stressful, but the answer might not be to stop doing it. If my claiming-to-be-concerned relatives actually wanted to relieve my stress, they could have supported me in doing what I felt I needed to do; and I still think it was the right thing. A lot of parenting is like this, I think. Who hasn't thought "I'd rather be alone on a tropical island somewhere, but I'll grind my teeth and soldier on." :rolleyes:

 

Rosie

 

This applies to those of us who formula fed as well. I had good reasons for choosing to do that AND I will always know that it was the right decision to make considering all the options and circumstances. If those who claimed to be "concerned" about it took one stinking minute to walk in my shoes they would have backed the heck off of me about it, too.

[Rosie_0801]

This applies to those of us who formula fed as well. I had good reasons for choosing to do that AND I will always know that it was the right decision to make considering all the options and circumstances. If those who claimed to be "concerned" about it took one stinking minute to walk in my shoes they would have backed the heck off of me about it, too.

 

Of course.

 

Preach it, Sister ;)

 

If I'd made a t-shirt with a slogan representing my first few years of parenting, it would have been "Since you're not going to help, shut the h*** up!"

 

Perhaps our life experiences are all contrived to make us sympathetic. I can't be rude to customer service people after having worked as a checkout chick for a few years, and I can't ignore desperate new mums after having been one myself. What a force for good I shall be when I can finally rely on my nippers to sleep through the night. :D

 

Rosie

[Jennifer in MI]

I didn't see the video, but based on the comments, I don't think an apology was even warranted. They are trying to sell bottles and breast pumps. LLL is awful about trying to make non-nursing mothers feel guilty. Personally, I think LLL should apologize to a lot of women.

 

This makes me sad. LLL was there for me when I was having a lot of trouble with nursing. They had the info that my doctors didn't. I'm forever grateful to them. I know there are some over-zealous leaders, but overall they really are a wonderful organization.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry your experience was bad.

[*Lulu*]

Of course.

 

Preach it, Sister ;)

 

If I'd made a t-shirt with a slogan representing my first few years of parenting, it would have been "Since you're not going to help, shut the h*** up!"

Perhaps our life experiences are all contrived to make us sympathetic. I can't be rude to customer service people after having worked as a checkout chick for a few years, and I can't ignore desperate new mums after having been one myself. What a force for good I shall be when I can finally rely on my nippers to sleep through the night. :D

 

Rosie

 

 

:lol: This just made my night! :lol:

[Joanne]

It was not an apology.

 

The issues involved are multi-layered and complicated. I remember reading "Milk, Money, and Madness" years ago.

 

It's rather like the study a few years ago commissioned by the Juvenille Products coalition that came out against co-sleeping. :glare:

 

Follow the money.

 

If the culture around feeding babies reflects the ease and design of breastfeeding, Evenflo goes out of business.

[ktgrok]

I did see the video. It was awful. They should have apologized, and didn't.

[Tangerine]

I didn't see the video, but based on the comments, I don't think an apology was even warranted. They are trying to sell bottles and breast pumps. LLL is awful about trying to make non-nursing mothers feel guilty. Personally, I think LLL should apologize to a lot of women.

 

I don't understand though, why Evenflo should not apologize for trying to make nursing mothers feel uncomfortable with their choices, and LLL should for making bottle feeding mothers uncomfortable with theirs.

[Joanne]

I don't understand though, why Evenflo should not apologize for trying to make nursing mothers feel uncomfortable with their choices, and LLL should for making bottle feeding mothers uncomfortable with theirs.

 

The difference of intent, operation, and premise of the 2 organizations mentioned make the comparison a non sequitur anyway.

[tearose]

After some thought, I think that the Facebook post about pumping and bottle-feeding the newborn so that grandma/aunt/whoever could "bond" bothered me more than the question about breastfeeding in public post. I never mastered discreetly nursing in public (or even in front of anyone other than my husband or mother), so I can totally understand that some women are hesitant about that. But as someone whose supply was pretty iffy at the beginning, I think that flippantly advising mothers of newborns to just pump and "let go" is rather irresponsible--someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ipsey]

I'm grateful for pumps.

 

My nipples were rubbed away and bleeding. I pumped for a couple of weeks to keep my milk supply up while I was healing.

 

I got pumped milk from my friend who was producing Gallons of milk! Her own daughter was having open heart surgery, and she was pumping to have enough. I was glad to have it, and so was her daughter.

 

I was exhausted. I pumped extra every day so I could go to bed at an earlier time that usual so my husband could feed my daughter before bed. I was happy to "let go."

 

I loved breastfeeding. I breastfed 4 children over a year each. I breastfed anydarnwhere I pleased, and darned who had a problem with it. However. . . .

 

Why can't pumping be ok too? Why can't it be ok to tell women they don't have to be a full-time pacifier if they'd like an alternative? (I saw this for women who "feel" like full-time pacifiers. Not that every women who breastfeeds exclusively is a pacifier) I think this is what the ads are getting at.

 

Edited to say: I couldn't see the video. . .but I'm not sure what the hubbub was about. Letting a women get a needed-break. . . doesn't seem bad to me.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Ipsey

[ktgrok]

.

 

Why can't pumping be ok too? Why can't it be ok to tell women they don't have to be a full-time pacifier if they'd like an alternative? (I saw this for women who "feel" like full-time pacifiers. Not that every women who breastfeeds exclusively is a pacifier) I think this is what the ads are getting at.

 

Did you see the video? The mom didn't want to pump, the mom wanted to nurse the baby. The MIL wanted the mom to pump, and said that it was important for the baby's well being to be fed by everyone in the family. That is why she "gave in" and pumped. Not because she wanted to and was grateful that the evenflo pump was so efficient, or any number of other scenarios that would have made sense and NOT been offensive.

[Ipsey]

Did you see the video? The mom didn't want to pump, the mom wanted to nurse the baby. The MIL wanted the mom to pump, and said that it was important for the baby's well being to be fed by everyone in the family. That is why she "gave in" and pumped. Not because she wanted to and was grateful that the evenflo pump was so efficient, or any number of other scenarios that would have made sense and NOT been offensive.

 

ah, no, I couldn't see the video.

Poo on that.

That's just rude.

[tearose]

I was exhausted. I pumped extra every day so I could go to bed at an earlier time that usual so my husband could feed my daughter before bed. I was happy to "let go."

 

. . .

 

Why can't pumping be ok too? Why can't it be ok to tell women they don't have to be a full-time pacifier if they'd like an alternative? (I saw this for women who "feel" like full-time pacifiers. Not that every women who breastfeeds exclusively is a pacifier) I think this is what the ads are getting at.

 

I think my issue was advising a mother of a newborn to perhaps unnecessarily pump might be irresponsible, considering that some new moms might not realize that pumping could be less efficient, thus affecting supply in the critical early days. I had a great LC who helped me through the early period, but I am not sure that all women have access to that kind of information. If one's supply is adequate or overly adequate, obviously this is less of an issue ... but Evenflo is kind of casually dishing out this advice without the caveat that it might have a negative impact. I certainly used pumped milk when my child was a bit older but only after I had a steady supply.