joannqn Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 At what point do you give up on keeping up with the kids and what they are learning? At what point do you say, "This is more than I know and more than I have time to learn so you are on your own?" And how do you handle questions if the solutions manual doesn't make sense to you without understanding the math? Or when they are confused about grammar, and you can't help them because you don't know the material? Does the age of the child change your answers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I gave up on keeping up with my oldest in anything but math and science several years ago. She has more time and energy to put into learning things than I do. This is the biggest reason I am concerned about high school. She NEEDS someone who understands the subject matter more completely than I do. She NEEDS someone who can intelligently discuss literature and history. And I do not have the time to play catch up at this point. So, what do I do? I buy the programs with the most complete teacher manuals I can find and try to outsource anything that I can't deal with even with teacher manuals. Right now, we are outsourcing Latin, Speech and Debate, and Art. I am hoping the teacher manuals I have for english and history are up to the task. Math and science I can do. Because you asked about age, I will say she is currently almost 13 and officially an eighth grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 At what point do you give up on keeping up with the kids and what they are learning? At what point do you say, "This is more than I know and more than I have time to learn so you are on your own?" And how do you handle questions if the solutions manual doesn't make sense to you without understanding the math? Or when they are confused about grammar, and you can't help them because you don't know the material? Does the age of the child change your answers? Age is irrelevent. If you don't know the answer you can be a great model for how to find it. That's something we all need to know how to do in adulthood. I've been doing that for years. If I can't ask a friend who probably knows the answer (my first go-to solution), then you can probably google it. And don't forget Khan Academy's free on-line lessons! And here! You can ask here! (Or a curriculum subject forum? Singapore Math has one of those.) I think it depends on the subject area: oldest outgrew me in world war II history knowledge many years ago. (Maybe when he was about 7?) Of course, I still teach him math. He outgrew me in paleontology knowledge a couple of years ago... and he's getting there with genetics (maybe it's already happenend?). Both older kids play an instrument and read music. I do not. So, they outgrew me there nearly as soon as they began. I think this is really common. Lots of kids learn things and do things their parents don't. It's usually related to outside-learning (tutor, coach, music teacher?) Or books they read. Think about curricula where the kids works mostly independently (online?). Whether we homeschool or not, have gifted/accelerated kids or not, this is a common issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'll give up when it becomes apparent that a tutor will do a better job than I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Diary of a Wimpy Kid The Ugly Truth page 64 has something really funny about this in regards to math. I have a picture of it here. Boy do I remember this with my own parents! By 7th grade my parents were unable to help me with math. I remember them having to look ahead in the book to try to figure out how to help me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm planning to outsource math after pre-algebra because I *KNOW* I'm not going to be able to teach it properly. Science I feel I can teach up through something like Conceptual Chemistry or Conceptual Physics but true honors high school chem & physics I'll need to outsource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjx2khsmj Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't think I'd say that they were on their own until they were in high school. Even then I think my first response would be to help them find the resources they need to move forward with whatever interests them. My ds9 loves to draw, I have little talent. He's been on his own with that for years but I always help him find the resources he needs to learn what he wants to learn to better his drawing skill. My dd11 wants to be a novelist. I'm not a novelist but I can help her find the resources and develop the skills she will need to pursue her dream. My dd6 loves to play soccer. I don't. She has been blessed with amazing coaches who teach her the skills and love for the game while I cheer her on. I think as parents we do ourselves and our children a disservice when we take on the role of absolute expert in all areas. My role is to guide and facilitate. Sometimes I do that by teaching, sometimes by learning together and sometimes by helping them figure out how to procede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissKNG Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 There's going to be a point when I won't be able to explain math to her because I don't "get it". I figured implementing EPGY would help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I am not there yet with academics- except for some reading for which I do not have the time (I listened to the abridged Beowulf on CD rather than reading the full book). As long as possible I will use the opportunity homeschooling provides me to refresh the things I myself studied at some point. DD has started chemistry, which I have not given a thought in 25 years, but since I did have high school chemistry, I know that at some point I knew the stuff, so it is matter of reviewing. History I learn with them. The only thing I am clueless about is French; I learn alongside DD and learn a tad faster - if she worked harder, she'd be ahead. Of course, I know nothing about horses, THAT is DD's area of expertise where I don't even begin to keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Dd14 passed me up in Spanish (and music) on day 1. I hired a tutor, outsourced a class and then sent her to daily Spanish 2/3 at a local high school in 8th. This year she is full time in 9th and taking Spanish 3/4 with all the jrs and srs. I also used TPS for her in 8th. English 2 with Mrs. F was a highlight of her year. I will outsource as needed for dd8. She does challenging word problems 2 hours/wk with Cybershala while I work with dd7. We love Rachna. I can cross that off my list and rest easy. Dd8 starts her local Spanish class, private voice and piano, art and tennis lessons next week. We will do homegrown math through geo. Our family is extremely active. Older kids in music, sports, work, church, student council, volunteering, friends, etc. Younger kids who have tons going on. We run our own company. We love to be on our boat whenever possible in the summer and on the mountain in the winter. I have no shame in hiring help so I can play with the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth in WA Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am not there yet with academics- except for some reading for which I do not have the time (I listened to the abridged Beowulf on CD rather than reading the full book).As long as possible I will use the opportunity homeschooling provides me to refresh the things I myself studied at some point. DD has started chemistry, which I have not given a thought in 25 years, but since I did have high school chemistry, I know that at some point I knew the stuff, so it is matter of reviewing. History I learn with them. The only thing I am clueless about is French; I learn alongside DD and learn a tad faster - if she worked harder, she'd be ahead. Of course, I know nothing about horses, THAT is DD's area of expertise where I don't even begin to keep up. :iagree: Similarly to regentrude, I keep up by reviewing. Presently I am reviewing heavily to keep up with algebra II/trig, AP level chemistry, and Latin. Latin is the toughest for me and takes up the most of my time. I also skim or read abridged books sometimes to refresh my memory rather than read fully every book assigned,but I do read most of those too because I find my discussion much more lacking if I don't. I do think children, even gifted children, need at least an available tutor to provide explanations for things that confuse them and would outsource any academic course that I was not able to keep up with. However, one of my sons is really into computer programming and I make no effort whatsoever to keep up there. His dad can help him, as well as some online communities he is part of, and that is his passion, not assigned by me although I will give him some elective credit for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I expect that I'll be giving up on keeping up in Latin very soon. Right now, I can still manage it, but she's teaching me more than I'm teaching her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Let's see... So far, I gave up middle DD's chemistry, English, drawing, and even math - even though for now I still conceptually get what she is doing, I suspect in a year or two she will completely surpass me. I also gave up eldest DD's music (no time to keep in touch with everything), though interests-wise we quite "click" together so I happen to still know a lot more than her in things that interest her. It is the middle DD with whom I have a lesser overlap, so some of what she does is entirely incomprehensible to me - though not to DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't really have the ability to outsource classes. They are just outside our budget. DD has passed me in language arts already. I'm still keeping up, but I don't know it as well as I would like. I have to look up the answers before I understand them. Sometimes I have to sit there studying the answers and book before I get it well enough to help her. The only way I'll be able to help DS with math this year is if I do all of the work, too. It's all completely foreign to me, and the solutions manual doesn't make any sense without a basic understanding of the math. I gave up history already even though they are just doing SOTW. I just don't have time to read, and most of it is new to me. I've been trying to keep up with science as much as possible, though I didn't get every chapter read last year. I enjoy science, and I try to involve the littles whenever possible on the labs/observations. I continue to do fine arts. I gave up drawing a long time ago and would like to get back into it. This has been my way to ease back in and build up confidence again. Once upon a time, I used to be a pretty good artist. They do foreign language on their own with Rosetta Stone. I'm kind of sad about that because I really wanted to brush up on Spanish with my daughter, but you can't have two people on one online account. I'm worried about keeping up with two levels of MCT, helping DD with math (she needs more oversight than I've been giving her), keeping up with DS's math, and adding in a kindergartner and toddler to the mix (they've spent way too many hours in front of the TV over the last two years). I'm having trouble figuring out how it's all going to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) JoAnn, My kids are about the same ages as yours. We don't have a lot of money for outsourcing classes either, though I have a l-o-n-g list of classes/experiences I would *love* to do for my kids. The only subject for which we hire a teacher is music. (But I do purchase curriculum and some of it is designed for the kids to use on their own.) I have to admit that I can't possibly keep up with everything. I have no guilt. I just can't do it all. :001_smile: This is how I juggle working one-on-one/independent work: Ds(12) reads all of his history and does the work on his own, following what I schedule for him. While he's doing his history I'm doing history with dd(9). Ds(5) listens in and likes to do the Story of the World activity and coloring pages with his big sister. Dd(1) likes to sit at the table with us as long as she has crayons and a piece of paper (or 4). I do science with dd(9). Ds(5) listens in. He's not responsible for any of the information, but he loves to listen. I usually do the reading in an area surrounded by toys so I can keep an eye on dd(1) at the same time. Labs are done during her naps. Ds(12) does his science on his own. We haven't started the new school year yet: last year he used PLATO life science and Froguts on-line dissection. (He's still enjoying Froguts. Can't beat it - $30 for a year access to about 6 dissections and a Mendelian genetics lab on peas and fruit flies PLUS lab reports.) He also did a lot of reading on his own, competed with a team at a paleontology competition (they had weekly study sessions), and joined a paleontology society at a museum. When we do math I try to have them all with me. (I think this is the only subject we do where no one is beyone me yet! Yahoo!) Two are doing independent work (such as review from Singapore Math's Intensive Practice book) while I do one-on-one with the third. And then we switch. Everyone's right there, so it's easy to check work as they complete it and I'm available for questions. Dd(1) likes to fiddle around with the math manipulatives I have. Sometimes she hangs out and plays with toys or puzzles. When the 5 y.o. is done (his math doesn't take long) he runs off to play (usually in the toy kitchen or with blocks) with dd(1). This past year ds did his English/Language Arts largely without my help. (It was a thorough text.) I'd work with dd(9) on her LA while concurrently reading books to dd(1). Ds(5) would usually read books or listen in (to dd9's AAS). Ds(12) would work independently on his Latin while dd(9) did Rosetta Stone on the computer. Ds(5) would usually hover nearby and listen in on the Rosetta Stone, but he'd also wander in to listen to me reading to dd(1). I'd keep popping in on the older two. This isn't everything we do, but it shows *why* it's important that they have some coursework they can do without me. I don't have the time to keep up with everything everyone's doing. And because I'm not doing all of the reading/studying with them (mostly my oldest) and b/c I don't remember everything I've ever learned, they can get beyond me quickly in some areas. Eh. That's life. :001_smile: Edited August 24, 2011 by zaichiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 DD has passed me in language arts already. I'm still keeping up, but I don't know it as well as I would like. I have to look up the answers before I understand them. Sometimes I have to sit there studying the answers and book before I get it well enough to help her. The only way I'll be able to help DS with math this year is if I do all of the work, too. It's all completely foreign to me, and the solutions manual doesn't make any sense without a basic understanding of the math. I gave up history already even though they are just doing SOTW. I just don't have time to read, and most of it is new to me. Sounds like it might be a good time to outsource your dd's LA and your ds's math. An online class? A tutor? (Can you barter with someone?) A history curriculum that the oldest can do on her own (designed for her independent use) might be perfect. Weren't you considering History Odyssey? I think that would fit the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Your best bet is going to be to google the topics and do your learning with more efficient materials. Instead of studying an involved text for grammar, just read through a grammar HANDBOOK. Instead of reading her math text, google and watch a khan or youtube video on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Instead of reading her math text, google and watch a khan or youtube video on it. I like the Khan videos idea. OP, has your ds seen any of the Khan Academy stuff yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Oh man, I hope this never happens. Wishful thinking, I bet. My plan all along has been to learn WITH my kids. So far, so good. Of course, my oldest is only 12 and in 7th grade...so I know this could change. As for how we will address it...we have co-ops for highschoolers in my area where they can take classes with folks who do know more than I do in various subjects. We also have the option of dual enrollment in a community college where his professors will most definitely know more on the individual subjects than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Well I'm making it my effort to keep ahead of my dd too, but I don't have 4 kids, double toddlers, etc. That's where I say you have to do it but be more efficient. Instead of reading THEIR science textbook, jump to a college level non-majors text. That way you hit lots of levels of understanding in *one* reading. Don't read their history tm. Get a tm for an AP level text or look at the publisher's online resources for an AP level text and see what questions they ask. That way you see where it's GOING and know how to guide your dc, even if you don't know the specifics. I don't have to learn everything my dd is learning, but I do have to stay ahead of her to know the QUESTIONS she needs to ask. And on the writing and grammar, there's nothing they're covering in elementary or middle school that wouldn't be covered efficiently in a good handbook. I think the Potter's School uses the Gregg manual, doesn't it? Or go to the high school section of WTM and get the rhetoric writing recommendations, check them out from the library, and read them (Corbett, etc.). That's what I did. It's just a matter of picking more advanced materials so you use your time well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 This is one of the main reasons I use MUS. The videos explain things so well! They really help me to teach the concepts. Plus as time goes on if I don't understand how to teach it, at least they can watch Mr. Demme teach it. I also chose R&S English for the same reason. There are no videos, but it explains things so thoroughly and incrementally. I don't think I will have a hard time keeping up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Oh man, I hope this never happens. Wishful thinking, I bet. My plan all along has been to learn WITH my kids. So far, so good. Of course, my oldest is only 12 and in 7th grade...so I know this could change. As for how we will address it...we have co-ops for highschoolers in my area where they can take classes with folks who do know more than I do in various subjects. We also have the option of dual enrollment in a community college where his professors will most definitely know more on the individual subjects than I do. With two children, I think you'll be able to learn with your kids longer. I have two younger kids that I've been neglecting for two years, and it's time they get some attention too. I can't imagine being able to pay for community college at this point. Hopefully, DH's business will keep growing to the point where we will be able to in the future. He started it just under 3 years ago, and has been successful in growing it so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 JoAnn, I think the problem is also having the 2 and 4 yo's. In a couple years, that dynamic is going to totally change. Right now you're doing *everything* and probably aren't getting much time to yourself to do your own thing. Ok, a practical suggestion. Do you lock them in their rooms for quiet time one hour a day? Might be a time when you could sneak in 15 minutes of study. That would give you one chapter in a book, and doing that consistently would add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 When my DS is WAY ahead of me in a subject, I make him teach it to me. Of course this is not so easy with a toddler. I used to take advantage of my daughter's relatively early bedtime when she was younger. Now that she doesn't sleep so early I sometimes steal him away for walks. This might not work so well for math, especially if it is not your comfort area. But it works for history and even science. It's ok with a GT kid if you are not *ahead*. I would recommend trying to keep up as much as possible just so you can communicate about the subject. The great thing about having your DC teach you what they are learning is that it has two benefits. It's a relatively easy way to learn about what they are studying AND it helps them practice communicating to the "common" person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I don't really have the ability to outsource classes. They are just outside our budget. But there are ways (albeit fewer) to do this for less/little. There are lots of online resources. As they get older, MIT has free/open courseware available online. I think a handful of other schools have that, too. (Someone told me Harvard or Yale do that. Is that right?) There's Khan Academy. (I've already said that.) We make *shameless* use of the library for books/videos. (Think adult section and ILLs.) A friend of mine bartered for her dd's summer violin lessons. You can do it. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 But there are ways (albeit fewer) to do this for less/little. There are lots of online resources. As they get older, MIT has free/open courseware available online. I think a handful of other schools have that, too. (Someone told me Harvard or Yale do that. Is that right?) There are tons of online free options. Search the high school board for OCW (open courseware). There are lots of AP resources online as well. Also, if your child has a passion, don't discount the possibility of having a professional mentor! There are professors and other professionals that are interested in encouraging young people. Here are few interesting links: http://lifehacker.com/5615716/where-to-get-the-best-free-education-online http://www.academicearth.org/ http://www.archive.org/details/ap_courses http://see.stanford.edu/see/courses.aspx http://www.courserepository.org/ http://www.brightstorm.com/science/chemistry/ http://iberry.com/cms/Program http://www.aps.org/enthusiasts/index.cfm And if you don't mind Christian perspectives and want some free great lectures on CS Lewis, Peter Kreeft's lectures are wonderful. (I thoroughly enjoy listening to his lectures on a range of topics.) http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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