She said to me...

[Chris in VA]

Aubrey, I pm'd you.

[Aubrey]

:grouphug: It's heartbreaking to read all of this. I wish I could help but don't know what to do. I gather your dh's current job is as a messenger; what other kinds of jobs would he be interested in?

 

Interest isn't really a factor, but he's working on a project management degree & doing fabulously. He's worked in customer service & sales.

[Aubrey]

:iagree:

 

Uh oh on the throw up.

 

Hon, you can't be worried about your mom's sanity. You just can't make decisions for your family based on that. You have to do what is right for your kids, your dh, and you. That's all you can do.

 

If you move back to TX, I don't see how the breathing issues will improve. Won't it mean that in a year, its back to the same thing?

 

He's lived there his whole life, & this is the worst it's been. Maybe it would just give us another year to try to get out. I don't know.

 

Praying you find something workable where the air is managable for your dh. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[Aubrey]

Really, Aubrey, please, please take TX completely off the table. Just put it out of your head. It's too dangerous for your DH. There are lots of places you can live, but that is not one of them.

 

That's basically what dh is saying. :glare:

[Aubrey]

The air is very breathable in Antarctica, but families with children don't go there. Just the person employed there.

 

Dh just mentioned that earlier. :svengo:

[Aubrey]

:grouphug: Aubrey you are doing awesome! You are being active and finding solutions. You and your DH are putting one foot in front of the other and doing what is best for your family. I agree with the others that moving back to Tx isn't thebest choice if it is going to compromise his breathing. I know you will find a place soon and be able to be fully settled and relaxed before your due date. Too bad work visa's are not handed out easily. You could move north to Canada. All us Albertans would help you out in a heartbeat.

 

I need to hear this so badly. I can't tell you how much I wanted to give up tonight.

[Aubrey]

That's a good point. Aubrey, I know this is tough and probably driving you to your breaking point, but you mom did extend her home to you and even though she's obviously got some mental health issues that need attention, I don't think she's trying to be malicious.

 

Ok, here's the thing: I told her before we moved that I wanted *at least* the upstairs to be completely hers so she'd feel like she ahd her space. She got mad because she WANTED the kids to have a room upstairs. Then we got there & found that the downstairs was unlivable & the only usable bathroom was upstairs.

 

Sharing that part of the house was not my intent & if we were to stay, it would not be permanent.

 

Yes, she extended her home. Because I trusted that, we are now potentially homeless. I would not do what she has done to someone I HATED. But I will give you this: I don't think she's trying to be malicious.

 

I have more than a few people in my family with mental health issues and yes, they can be very hard to love sometimes. I have to constantly remember that what they may say and what they may do should not be held against them. This is doubly true when they are having meds issues (which your mom is -- she isn't getting the ones she needs!).

 

I don't think I'm holding it against her (well, maybe some when it comes to the kids); I'm trying to figure out a living situation.

 

The bottom line is that she opened her home to you. She probably woefully underestimated the impact of suddenly having a huge family in the house when it had been her, alone, for so long. That is an enormous change! Yes, she isn't coping with it well, but I think she is probably feeling over run and she probably did not expect that.

 

I agree, but I can't fix that.

 

Running back to TX is awful idea, IMHO. Your dh's health is not helped by going back there. You went to CO on what seems to me to be a short-notice impulse driven by your desire to get out of a difficult position.

 

The actual move date was short notice, but we'd been planning this move for nearly 6mos. We'd planned to wait another 6, for the baby to come & to hold out for a situation that didn't involve living w/ parents.

 

Don't make another such decision by going back to TX. You and your dh will be no farther ahead, and your kids will just have endure yet another bounce. You owe it to yourselves to stick it out in CO and make a go of it. You know what's waiting for you back in TX. Why not take advantage of the unknown opportunities that are in CO?

 

I agree w/ this, too, except for the details. We can't "take advantage of the unknown" if we don't have a place to live, kwim?

[Aubrey]

ETA: This is NOT Meant to come off harsh...

 

I've been reading this developing thread all day and one thing that comes to mind after your latest reply is to BREATHE. It sounds to me like you're so worried about *tomorrow*, that you're making rash decisions *today*. Please try to just breathe and let the situation sit for the night. I know it's a desperate situation but it won't make anything better to make decisions on the fly as you've been since you arrived. Your children are bound to suffer if you don't give yourself a time-out. :grouphug:

 

I don't know how to do that in this situation, but I'm open to advice. :001_smile:

[kolamum]

I've only read the first page of threads, but I suspect if you signed up for housing you might be bumped up the line due to the pregnancy and young children. I could be really wrong though.. It couldn't hurt to try, right?

[Renee in NC]

Nevermind what I posted before.

 

Praying Aubrey.

[RahRah]

b) *I* have been hurt by her; I'd never seen her hurt my kids. Oh. my. gosh. That's worse. Obviously, but wow. I've been lucky enough to never *really* see my kids hurt. It SUCKS to want to tear my own mother's eyes out. I grew up seeing her hurt & wanting nothing but to protect her, & now I feel completely crushed & schizophrenic.

 

:grouphug:

 

Aubrey, in all you've posted, something is becoming obvious - your mother has a personality disorder that has likely been an issue since you yourself were a child. You're seeing it rear again, and now it is affecting your children - your mother is parentifying your 10yo which is unhealthy and damaging. You know this - your gut is aching as your hear what your 10yo is sharing with you what was said - what your mother did is WRONG.

 

I''m going to be blunt - in no uncertain terms should any of your children be in her company alone - she will continue to say things that are wholly inappropriate and continue to attempt to divide and conquer your family. When you lived at a distance it was much easier to dismiss or ignore or forgive the bad behaviors, but now it's in your face and it will not stop - you cannot reason with a PD person - they accept no responsibility for their bad behavior and even if they attempt an apology of sorts, it will never be genuine with introspection and a real try at not doing it again - instead it will be rationalized as to why they did whatever and justified.

 

This situation is extremely unhealthy for you (you're pregnant) and your children and your husband. I beg you to look at options to go somewhere else and not live in this environment - it will not get better, it will only get worse!

[RahRah]

Or borderline. Or histrionic. Statistically, it's unlikely to be early onset dementia. Her mom is closer to my age than the OP. :001_huh:

 

:iagree:

 

All the behaviors Aubrey has shared in her posts point to a full spectrum cluster-B PD.

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, biiiiig paradigm shift, but,

 

....can you go back to your mom's house but think of this (and would it be helpful to think of this?) as YOU helping YOUR MOM? IOW, like with a toddler, you're the one who projects calm into her life, she's not your refuge, you are the refuge? So you have 4 months or 6 months or whatever to get her back into sanity. You encourage her in her doctor visits, and keep things pretty pleasant, knowing that there is an end to this. IOW, you're the grownup here. Not her.

 

Because it seems like she is so completely not in her right mind, and if you all think of it that way, then once she is on stable meds you will also be ready to move on. It's a good way for your older kids to think of it, too. Just like when a two year old hits you you might say, "Oh well, it's not right but he's not mature enough yet to control this impulse" and not take it personally or as a model for behavior, the kids can look at her actions the same way as well.

 

In a way this puts more burden on you, because you can't leave the kids alone with her at all AND you're always watching out for her and trying to move her gently but steadily toward health, but in a way it frees you because you're no longer engaging on an adult to adult level with her craziness.

 

Also, this is the time to read the kids lots of books about persevering in a strange living situation to turn this into a game. "A Little Princess", "The Railway Children", "Circus Shoes", etc.

[ereks mom]

That's a good point. Aubrey, I know this is tough and probably driving you to your breaking point, but you mom did extend her home to you and even though she's obviously got some mental health issues that need attention, I don't think she's trying to be malicious.

 

I have more than a few people in my family with mental health issues and yes, they can be very hard to love sometimes. I have to constantly remember that what they may say and what they may do should not be held against them. This is doubly true when they are having meds issues (which your mom is -- she isn't getting the ones she needs!).

 

The bottom line is that she opened her home to you. She probably woefully underestimated the impact of suddenly having a huge family in the house when it had been her, alone, for so long. That is an enormous change! Yes, she isn't coping with it well, but I think she is probably feeling over run and she probably did not expect that.

 

Running back to TX is awful idea, IMHO. Your dh's health is not helped by going back there. You went to CO on what seems to me to be a short-notice impulse driven by your desire to get out of a difficult position. Don't make another such decision by going back to TX. You and your dh will be no farther ahead, and your kids will just have endure yet another bounce. You owe it to yourselves to stick it out in CO and make a go of it. You know what's waiting for you back in TX. Why not take advantage of the unknown opportunities that are in CO?

 

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

That's basically what dh is saying. :glare:

 

I'm really glad he's saying that flat out.

 

Audrey, I have asthma myself, and it's just altogether weird to try to get it under control when it flares up. You get sensitized. When it's bad but on the mend, if I walk up the detergent aisle in the grocery store, it sets me back. When I'm very healthy, I can spray perfume into my face and it doesn't phase me.

 

He's just now getting 'better' but I would be very surprised if he's 'well'. He could probably progress faster with oral steroids, but barring that, if he goes into a climate or air that he is sensitized to right now, things could get really, really serious.

 

You could probably talk him into it, but I hope that you won't.

[asta]

OK, biiiiig paradigm shift, but,

 

....can you go back to your mom's house but think of this (and would it be helpful to think of this?) as YOU helping YOUR MOM? IOW, like with a toddler, you're the one who projects calm into her life, she's not your refuge, you are the refuge? So you have 4 months or 6 months or whatever to get her back into sanity. You encourage her in her doctor visits, and keep things pretty pleasant, knowing that there is an end to this. IOW, you're the grownup here. Not her.

 

Because it seems like she is so completely not in her right mind, and if you all think of it that way, then once she is on stable meds you will also be ready to move on. It's a good way for your older kids to think of it, too. Just like when a two year old hits you you might say, "Oh well, it's not right but he's not mature enough yet to control this impulse" and not take it personally or as a model for behavior, the kids can look at her actions the same way as well.

 

In a way this puts more burden on you, because you can't leave the kids alone with her at all AND you're always watching out for her and trying to move her gently but steadily toward health, but in a way it frees you because you're no longer engaging on an adult to adult level with her craziness.

 

Also, this is the time to read the kids lots of books about persevering in a strange living situation to turn this into a game. "A Little Princess", "The Railway Children", "Circus Shoes", etc.

 

Meds aren't the "fix" for personality disorders -- therapy is. Nor will a person with a pd become "stable" on meds.

 

As MosaicMind can tell you, although meds can and often are used in conjunction with therapy (eg: an anti-anxiety agent may be prescribed to help a patient calm down enough to be able to "make it through" a therapy session), personality disorders are not a disruption of the body's biochemistry, and therefore do not respond to a "correction" via the introduction of chemicals.

 

This isn't something the OP can fix. This is only something the patient can fix. And only if they WANT to fix it.

 

 

a

[Carol in Cal.]

Meds aren't the "fix" for personality disorders -- therapy is. Nor will a person with a pd become "stable" on meds.

 

 

 

The ADD and Bipolar pieces of the puzzle are addressable with medication. And having someone around to keep watch over whether these meds are taken, and to gently provide organization of medical actions can be helpful. It's hard for someone with ADD to pull together an organized approach to getting this help that involves at least 3, maybe more, professionals.

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, biiiiig paradigm shift, but,

 

....can you go back to your mom's house but think of this (and would it be helpful to think of this?) as YOU helping YOUR MOM? IOW, like with a toddler, you're the one who projects calm into her life, she's not your refuge, you are the refuge? So you have 4 months or 6 months or whatever to get her back into sanity. You encourage her in her doctor visits, and keep things pretty pleasant, knowing that there is an end to this. IOW, you're the grownup here. Not her.

 

 

 

The thing about this is, the shift is, CO was supposed to be a refuge, but it's not working out that way. So now how do you get on top of this instead of having it beat you down?

 

Believe me, I don't underestimate how hard this will be. But pulling things together and being the strong one is very satisfying as well. And I know you can do this!

[Garga]

Also, this is the time to read the kids lots of books about persevering in a strange living situation to turn this into a game. "A Little Princess", "The Railway Children", "Circus Shoes", etc.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

And going back to Texas is a Very Bad Idea. Your dh cannot do that. It's not a matter of him not "wanting" to. He can't. It's not an option.

 

Stay as far from her as you can in the house. Keep to the basement whenever possible.

 

I'm not clear on the toilet issue. Does the plumbing work in the basement or not? I guess it must work, or else the children would have to come upstairs to use the bathroom, right? Or do they go in a bucket? If it's a matter of the mess and that there is no privacy, and you have zero dollars for curtains, then put an extension rod over the door with a sheet over it (or use tacks or nails if there is no rod in the house) and tape up newspaper on the window. Try to shove all the mess (construction stuff) into one corner of the basement.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Garga

[Aubrey]

The thing about this is, the shift is, CO was supposed to be a refuge, but it's not working out that way. So now how do you get on top of this instead of having it beat you down?

 

Believe me, I don't underestimate how hard this will be. But pulling things together and being the strong one is very satisfying as well. And I know you can do this!

 

I've done this my whole life. There is nothing satisfying about it. These are not disorders (ime) that can be "directed" or "parented." And I can't risk having her see ME as the bad guy.

[Aubrey]

:iagree:

 

 

And going back to Texas is a Very Bad Idea. Your dh cannot do that. It's not a matter of him not "wanting" to. He can't. It's not an option.

 

Stay as far from her as you can in the house. Keep to the basement whenever possible.

 

I'm not clear on the toilet issue. Does the plumbing work in the basement or not? I guess it must work, or else the children would have to come upstairs to use the bathroom, right? Or do they go in a bucket? If it's a matter of the mess and that there is no privacy, and you have zero dollars for curtains, then put an extension rod over the door with a sheet over it (or use tacks or nails if there is no rod in the house) and tape up newspaper on the window. Try to shove all the mess (construction stuff) into one corner of the basement.

 

It's hard to explain. Cement floors (although I've almost finished laying the tile in there), everything covered in mud dust & dripped/sprayed mud. Nothing LOOKED like it would work the first day, but technically, it does. Imo, all that stuff is going to be bad for the plumbing & needs attention, but...whatever.

 

Dh & I have been over here cleaning it up today. The toilet & sink are one thing. The shower...I don't know if I can get it clean. It was literally SPRAYED w/ ceiling texture. The floor of the shower is covered in pieces of sheetrock, nails, dust, etc. The shower head is not installed. I think dh can do that; he doesn't. :lol:

 

I guess the best summary is: the worst gas station toilet you could encounter. For preschoolers. And you have to shower there. Without privacy (yes, that part is fixable--it's ALL fixable, given the TIME), & w/ varying levels of dangerous stuff.

[Karen in CO]

It's hard to explain. Cement floors (although I've almost finished laying the tile in there), everything covered in mud dust & dripped/sprayed mud. Nothing LOOKED like it would work the first day, but technically, it does. Imo, all that stuff is going to be bad for the plumbing & needs attention, but...whatever.

 

Dh & I have been over here cleaning it up today. The toilet & sink are one thing. The shower...I don't know if I can get it clean. It was literally SPRAYED w/ ceiling texture. The floor of the shower is covered in pieces of sheetrock, nails, dust, etc. The shower head is not installed. I think dh can do that; he doesn't. :lol:

 

I guess the best summary is: the worst gas station toilet you could encounter. For preschoolers. And you have to shower there. Without privacy (yes, that part is fixable--it's ALL fixable, given the TIME), & w/ varying levels of dangerous stuff.

 

Do you have a shop vac? because it sounds like you need a really big one. And I'm sure your dh can put on a shower head. :D Those are easy.

[katilac]

Honestly, I would just shower everyone upstairs while mom is at work. Clean thoroughly, and never mention it.

 

 

It's hard to explain. Cement floors (although I've almost finished laying the tile in there), everything covered in mud dust & dripped/sprayed mud. Nothing LOOKED like it would work the first day, but technically, it does. Imo, all that stuff is going to be bad for the plumbing & needs attention, but...whatever.

 

Dh & I have been over here cleaning it up today. The toilet & sink are one thing. The shower...I don't know if I can get it clean. It was literally SPRAYED w/ ceiling texture. The floor of the shower is covered in pieces of sheetrock, nails, dust, etc. The shower head is not installed. I think dh can do that; he doesn't. :lol:

 

I guess the best summary is: the worst gas station toilet you could encounter. For preschoolers. And you have to shower there. Without privacy (yes, that part is fixable--it's ALL fixable, given the TIME), & w/ varying levels of dangerous stuff.

[Carol in Cal.]

I've done this my whole life. There is nothing satisfying about it. These are not disorders (ime) that can be "directed" or "parented." And I can't risk having her see ME as the bad guy.

 

I'm sorry, Aubrey. I wanted to be helpful, but I did not succeed. I apologize for making it worse for you.

[Harriet Vane]

Honestly, I would just shower everyone upstairs while mom is at work. Clean thoroughly, and never mention it.

 

:iagree:

[Harriet Vane]

I've done this my whole life. There is nothing satisfying about it. These are not disorders (ime) that can be "directed" or "parented." And I can't risk having her see ME as the bad guy.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Create Your Ritual]

We have, but it looks like there are long waiting lists & lotteries.

 

She's been begging us to move here for 10 yrs. She called me 3x/day. She'd shop for the kids & me at least once a week & then send us boxes of random junk. She wanted us to live w/ her partly to make sure I'd still be able to hs.

 

She told me before we came that she'd give us all the space we needed--even up to moving out herself. We'd pay her rent & she'd pay the mtg. She told me that we should have as many kids as God gave us, that she believed it was our call, we were great parents, etc.

 

It's obviously a medical issue to go so far from one direction to another, & I feel like an IDIOT for thinking this would work, BUT

 

a) dh's breathing was bad enough that neither of us was sure he'd survive the summer in TX &

 

b) *I* have been hurt by her; I'd never seen her hurt my kids. Oh. my. gosh. That's worse. Obviously, but wow. I've been lucky enough to never *really* see my kids hurt. It SUCKS to want to tear my own mother's eyes out. I grew up seeing her hurt & wanting nothing but to protect her, & now I feel completely crushed & schizophrenic.

 

Shoot. That's all, just. Shoot.

 

I haven't read all the posts, but I must say that other than the fact that I do not have to live with my mother our talks on the phone VS our real life visits play out like this also. She isn't terribly mean to my kids, although she has been. Her issue is primarily with me. ;-)

 

I can't say if it's a medical cause as I know her to be capable of being decent to everyone else in her life. I know for me it's just a mother/daughter dynamic that I have been unable to figure out. We have extensive talks before she arrives and a lot more when she is here, but it's always the same darn thing. I keep letting her come primarily because I wanted the kids to see that a multi-generational family unit CAN work.

 

Anyway, all that said, I know this is absolutely frustrating for you having to be under her thumb like this all the time. I can see where the kids would feel very stressed out as they have no coping skills for this kind of thing ... I mean ... WHO DOES?!?!?

[ColoNative]

Aubrey,

 

I think you are an amazing person to conquer what is in front of you right now. I applaud your desire to even move while pregnant and find a better life - so I just want to encourage you to hang on and never give up! Your children must love such a mother and father, and they'll come to appreciate all you're done right now - some day, if not today!

 

Blessings to you and you are in my prayers!

:grouphug:

Melody

[Susan in TN]

:grouphug: I'm just speechless. :grouphug::grouphug:

[Scarlett]

Aubrey,

 

I think you are an amazing person to conquer what is in front of you right now. I applaud your desire to even move while pregnant and find a better life - so I just want to encourage you to hang on and never give up! Your children must love such a mother and father, and they'll come to appreciate all you're done right now - some day, if not today!

 

Blessings to you and you are in my prayers!

:grouphug:

Melody

 

This. Aubrey is amazing and her children are so fortunate to have her as a mother and Mr. Aubrey as dad.

 

I know many of you can't bear the thought of her staying there....but honestly at this point is appears to be the ONLY short term solution.

 

I think her dh's job situation is as critical as the current temporary living situation.

 

Aubrey you are a teacher right? Have you thought about letting dh stay home (after the baby comes obviously, so this is a plan for next school year) and you go back to teaching?

 

And as soon as I typed that I feel horrible for bringing that up when you are 7 months pregnant and life is so hard right now! You are awesome Aubrey and this too shall pass.

[*********]

Aubrey, I've hesitated to post because I don't really have anything constructive to offer in the way of suggestions.

 

But, I did want to tell you that you really must be one amazing woman. The fortitude you must have to just, well, frankly to just keep on keepin' on! I can't imagine I'd be able to function if I were in your situation. And yet, you seem to be doing as well as anyone could, given what you're going through.

 

Your family is in my prayers daily.

[Aubrey]

TAubrey you are a teacher right? Have you thought about letting dh stay home (after the baby comes obviously, so this is a plan for next school year) and you go back to teaching?

 

I've been applying for teaching jobs since '07 or '08. As the economy worsened, teaching jobs got harder to find until schools in TX stopped hiring. A cousin who teaches said that when someone quit, they'd just absorb the loss.

 

I have applied for several things out of state this year, though, incl online. EVEN without knowing I'm so pg, I've only gotten to the 2nd or 3rd round of hiring.

 

My point? While it would be incredibly far from ideal, I've tried. In fact--while we're at McD's & dh is applying for stuff, I've been applying for more teaching positions here in CO. An out of state license in this economy is even harder, though, I think.

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, I've hesitated to post because I don't really have anything constructive to offer in the way of suggestions.

 

But, I did want to tell you that you really must be one amazing woman. The fortitude you must have to just, well, frankly to just keep on keepin' on! I can't imagine I'd be able to function if I were in your situation. And yet, you seem to be doing as well as anyone could, given what you're going through.

 

Your family is in my prayers daily.

 

To all of you who've posted such kind & encouraging remarks: THANK YOU. This is probably the most anybody could do for me right now. While the situation is depressing & stressful & scary, it's also humiliating. Although it may sound ridiculous, I think that's the hardest part for me.

[Samiam]

Hmm, don't you have to actually get a license in that state, in this case Colorado, before you start teaching? Why not get that before you start applying, wouldn't that make getting the job easier?

 

It seems you also have to your finger prints turned in WITH your application in Colorado on the Colorado fingerprint form. Did you do that with your applications?

 

Here is what is says on the Colorado Education site. Seems if you haven't done some of these things before applying, it would make your applications invalid.

 

http://www.cde.state.co.us/cdeprof/Licensure_outstate_faq.asp#1

[simka2]

To all of you who've posted such kind & encouraging remarks: THANK YOU. This is probably the most anybody could do for me right now. While the situation is depressing & stressful & scary, it's also humiliating. Although it may sound ridiculous, I think that's the hardest part for me.

 

Aubrey, you are doing an amazing job! I have been quiet as well, because I did not have anything to add, but you will look on the hard times and laugh.

 

I am going through my own humiliating phase, and it is not fun! You are in my thoughts, and thank you for keeping us abreast o your situtation.

:grouphug:

[Aubrey]

Hmm, don't you have to actually get a license in that state, in this case Colorado, before you start teaching? Why not get that before you start applying, wouldn't that make getting the job easier?

 

Sort of. If you're certified, you apply w/ an out of state license, & getting certified in-state is part of the contract your first year--you do it thr the district that hires you.

 

Getting it outside of those circumstances would be complicated & unusual.

 

It seems you also have to your finger prints turned in WITH your application in Colorado on the Colorado fingerprint form. Did you do that with your applications?

 

Yep, at the local police station, just like a regular criminal. It's wonderful to teach! ;)

 

Here is what is says on the Colorado Education site. Seems if you haven't done some of these things before applying, it would make your applications invalid.

 

http://www.cde.state.co.us/cdeprof/Licensure_outstate_faq.asp#1

 

:001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

To all of you who've posted such kind & encouraging remarks: THANK YOU. This is probably the most anybody could do for me right now. While the situation is depressing & stressful & scary, it's also humiliating. Although it may sound ridiculous, I think that's the hardest part for me.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:your situation made me teary eyed today. Please don't be humiliated. It's SO ROUGH out there and there are too many people in your predicament. I admire you for handling it with as much grace and dignity as you can, and still solidly standing by your husband and supporting, loving and encouraging him. You're an awesome woman. Don't be humiliated. You're going to come out the other side a stronger woman!

Edited August 17, 2011 by Denisemomof4