Older kids (say ages 10+) and this board

[EKS]

I've noticed that most of the threads on this board involve issues with younger kids--frequently kids younger than typical school age. I can't remember if this was always the case.

 

Why do you think this is?

[kokotg]

Well....my 10 year old is a lot less, umm...issue-ridden than he was when he was younger :D

[Bang!Zoom!]

I think most of the older children (high school, etc.) take place up a few boards up.

 

Parents forum / highschool area.

 

Maybe that's why?

[EKS]

I think most of the older children (high school, etc.) take place up a few boards up.

 

Parents forum / highschool area.

 

Maybe that's why?

 

But there are still the issues of doing high school courses with younger kids. Maybe people aren't as inhibited about posting about their younger kids on the high school board as they used to be.

[Bang!Zoom!]

This always happens to me when I'm reading stuff from a zillion different fields, it's hard for me to switch understanding & platforms...

 

When you say working with younger kids at high school level, does this mean one's just had it and no longer cares about the very special labeling that goes with fluent kids?

 

Am I being PC enough? :)

[KAR120C]

I've noticed that most of the threads on this board involve issues with younger kids--frequently kids younger than typical school age. I can't remember if this was always the case.

 

Why do you think this is?

I think at least in my case, I post less because the older I get, and the longer I've been at this, the less I think my specific experience is relevant. I know DS pretty darn well, and I know that our route through things is very particular to who he is, where he's coming from, where he's going... as well as who our family is, our various interests, etc. It's not just "gifted kids need x" but "what should I do with a gifted kid with this particular background in science and math and surrounded by science-y/math-y family and their science-y/math-y friends, who are also really into the arts, travel enough that languages are important and to weird enough places that anthropology, history, and world economics are right there in front of them...."

 

IQ is the least of our issues.

 

So if someone has a simple "what kind of science do you recommend" I can spend the whole week debating whether I can even answer. Do I recommend what we did, knowing that we're in an unusual situation? Do I recommend something everyone else seems to like because the chances are better, even though it wouldn't have worked for us? By the time three people have posted answers, it doesn't seem like I ought to jump in with something completely ridiculous that only works if you have a completely obsessed child with just exactly our set of resources available. Especially since I always have to add the caveat that back when DS was at that stage we were two editions back, so I can't really tell you anything specific anymore.

 

Sometimes I'll jump in if I think an alternate view needs to be put out there, or if someone asks about something I know specifics on (mostly exams and competitions, and a couple of out-of-the-way resources) but more often than not I think everyone else pretty much has it covered.

[quark]

But there are still the issues of doing high school courses with younger kids. Maybe people aren't as inhibited about posting about their younger kids on the high school board as they used to be.

 

I had been lurking for quite a while before summoning the courage to post. The questions I had were better suited to the high school board although my child is still an elementary guy by age. I needed answers because I was at my wit's end. I'm glad that I finally posted my question on the high school board because I received very good and extremely relevant advice that may not have caught the attention of the respondents otherwise. I do feel sometimes as if I might be asking on the wrong board but what do I do when that's where most of the answers I need lie?

 

I really feel like I'm in a twilight zone sometimes. :)

 

Interesting question and thanks for bringing it up!

[SkateLeft]

I've noticed that most of the threads on this board involve issues with younger kids--frequently kids younger than typical school age. I can't remember if this was always the case.

 

Why do you think this is?

 

I see this as being a support forum particularly for parents with very young kids.

 

I think there are issues that are particular to gifted little ones, and those are the things that come up over and over on this board.

 

I suspect that the people who have young children functioning at middle and high school levels get more out of the logic/high school boards. At least, that was the case for me. As far as I can recall, this board has always been geared more towards younger kids.

 

As far as why those of us with older children don't hang out here, I just don't get anything out of it. I find more meaningful information on the other boards. For example, I'm not going to get much help here in dealing with my gifted just-turned-15 year old's adjustment to college. The folks who give the best advice on those issues are on other boards.

 

People go where they're most likely to find like-minded folks with similar concerns.

[catz]

Well....my 10 year old is a lot less, umm...issue-ridden than he was when he was younger [:D

 

I think there is some truth to that! I also think people are often more panicky about educating a gifted child when they first start. I don't specifically post questions on the logic or high school board, but I do troll around in there for information on a regular basis.

 

I think at least in my case, I post less because the older I get, and the longer I've been at this, the less I think my specific experience is relevant. I know DS pretty darn well, and I know that our route through things is very particular to who he is, where he's coming from, where he's going... as well as who our family is, our various interests, etc. It's not just "gifted kids need x" but "what should I do with a gifted kid with this particular background in science and math and surrounded by science-y/math-y family and their science-y/math-y friends, who are also really into the arts, travel enough that languages are important and to weird enough places that anthropology, history, and world economics are right there in front of them...."

 

Perfectly stated. :thumbup:I feel quite a bit like this too. Yes - kids are gifted but that isn't the whole picture. They are also extroverted, love their extra curriculars, are a bit lazy and perfectionist, and have far flung interests. etc etc etc. Every child is an individual and the beauty of homeschooling is you can tailor to your particular child. I find my answers rarely lie in asking a simple question, but researching ad nauseum and tailoring something to our needs. Curriculum like Singapore and MCT have made my life much simpler in a couple areas anyway.

[jenbrdsly]

Well....my 10 year old is a lot less, umm...issue-ridden than he was when he was younger :D

 

 

Music to my ears!!!!!! :bigear:

[Jenny in Florida]

I suspect that the people who have young children functioning at middle and high school levels get more out of the logic/high school boards. At least, that was the case for me.

 

Me, too.

 

I suspect part of it has to do with the fact that gifted kids are just so all over the map. If I'm trying to decide on a high school-level science curriculum, I could certainly ask here. However, the chances of anyone here having a kid who just happens to be at the same stage as mine and who knows a lot about high school science curricula are kind of small. I can ask, though, on the high school board and get tons of opinions and suggestions quickly.

 

It may also be because, as these kids get older, we get better at understanding their needs. Having a three year old who is reading at a first or second grade level is kind of disorienting. But, by the time that child is 10 and doing high school work, we've had seven years of experience.

 

We find our sea legs, I suppose.

 

I know that was true for me.

 

And, having been through the process once already with my daughter, I find I post a lot less asking for help with my son.

[quark]

I suspect that the people who have young children functioning at middle and high school levels get more out of the logic/high school boards. At least, that was the case for me. As far as I can recall, this board has always been geared more towards younger kids.

 

As far as why those of us with older children don't hang out here, I just don't get anything out of it. I find more meaningful information on the other boards.

 

Asking this question because I'm still quite new to this forum and would like to understand the culture/ protocols better. Is it okay for those of us with young kids doing middle/ high school work, i.e. radically accelerated kids, to keep asking questions on the logic/ high school boards?

[Laura Corin]

I think that you get more of a handle on how to do things as time goes on. I had tons of questions at the beginning, but then I got into a flow: I learned when to go wider, deeper or faster.

 

Laura

[Crimson Wife]

Asking this question because I'm still quite new to this forum and would like to understand the culture/ protocols better. Is it okay for those of us with young kids doing middle/ high school work, i.e. radically accelerated kids, to keep asking questions on the logic/ high school boards?

 

Oh, I certainly hope so!

[KAR120C]

Asking this question because I'm still quite new to this forum and would like to understand the culture/ protocols better. Is it okay for those of us with young kids doing middle/ high school work, i.e. radically accelerated kids, to keep asking questions on the logic/ high school boards?

I've posted a fair bit on boards "ahead of schedule", and as far as protocol/ etiquette I'd say the basic rule is ask the questions that they can answer.

 

If you're hanging out on a high school board (here or anywhere), you'll get a better response from "what would you put on a World Literature reading list - I can't think of anything from Australia" than you will from "my kid isn't like yours but tell me anyway...." I don't mean you should ever be dishonest, only that if you want other people's experience you have to ask for what they'll recognize and respond to. There are tons that would love to talk about world literature, but not as many that will jump right into "my kid is really really young and really really smart and I want you to tell me something that wouldn't have worked for you but trust me I think we're different". For one thing it's all too easy to come across a little obnoxious, and for another you're asking people to make a guess about your unique situation, rather than sharing their own.

 

More and more I find that the twenty people who respond to a world literature question (or whatever) on the high school board, no matter what their kids' particular strengths or challenges and no matter what ages they're dealing with, provide so much solid information and really useful perspective that I can easily pick through and choose what will really work for us. And even though I know age might play a small role (smaller every year...) in what I'm likely to rule out, the question and the thread potentially could be relevant to a hundred other people with related questions, who will pick and choose with a different set of criteria than I would. I'd rather leave in all of the rich detail and different perspectives in a generic question than restrict it to just what I want right now. If the discussion is broadly useful and interesting, I'm less of an interloper and more of a participant in the online community.

[EKS]

Asking this question because I'm still quite new to this forum and would like to understand the culture/ protocols better. Is it okay for those of us with young kids doing middle/ high school work, i.e. radically accelerated kids, to keep asking questions on the logic/ high school boards?

 

Back several years ago when my older son first started doing some high school level work, I always felt inhibited about posting at the high school board. Like I was an impostor or something. But that could have been a result of my own insecurity, rather than any real problems over there.

 

Now, like KAR120C says, when I post to the logic stage board for my younger one, I just ask a specific question, and it's perfectly fine.

 

The one question that I've never had answered satisfactorily, either here, at the HS board, or even by people at the local alternative high school (which assigns high school credit for "contracts," essentially homeschool courses) is, when you take age out of the equation, what exactly constitutes a credit-worthy high school course?

[KAR120C]

The one question that I've never had answered satisfactorily, either here, at the HS board, or even by people at the local alternative high school (which assigns high school credit for "contracts," essentially homeschool courses) is, when you take age out of the equation, what exactly constitutes a credit-worthy high school course?

I think part of the problem is that it's going to depend on who you have to convince. Some colleges will be fine with x where others need twice that much. Some will want particular documentation, textbooks, grades, exam scores, others will take your word for it. And I think the more unusual your circumstances, the more carefully you have to meet the requirements. Telling a college that your 14 year old took and passed Algebra doesn't raise an eyebrow at all, but telling them that your 8 year old did is more likely to require some substantial proof. But even then it's going to depend on the college.

 

I try to err on the side of keeping more documentation and pursuing extra confirmation in the form of exam scores and competition results. I don't know if it will work or not, but it's the best I can do with what I have.

[EKS]

 

I try to err on the side of keeping more documentation and pursuing extra confirmation in the form of exam scores and competition results. I don't know if it will work or not, but it's the best I can do with what I have.

 

This is my approach as well. I expect most of my kids' early credits to drop off their transcripts unless someone needs to enter college early. The only classes this may be a problem for are things that are sometimes specified, such as geometry or American history or a certain number of years of a foreign language.

[wapiti]

Ok, this is going to sound really dumb, but I don't understand the point of counting credits that took place before 9th grade unless the student is graduating early. In other words, if my student takes algebra in 6th, and, say, takes precalculus in 9th, and fills up the rest of high school with more advanced math (it's not as though I'd let a student advanced in math go without math for a year during high school), then why would the actual credits for alg/geom/alg 2 be necessary? I thought the colleges would assume these courses were taken prior to high school, since they are prerequisites for the more advanced math. Or, is there an admissions purpose in trying to point out that these courses were taken at a younger age? Or, does awarding the credits - toward the total - allow for a lighter load during high school (for, say, electives or something)?

[onaclairadeluna]

Ok, this is going to sound really dumb, but I don't understand the point of counting credits that took place before 9th grade unless the student is graduating early. In other words, if my student takes algebra in 6th, and, say, takes precalculus in 9th, and fills up the rest of high school with more advanced math (it's not as though I'd let a student advanced in math go without math for a year during high school), then why would the actual credits for alg/geom/alg 2 be necessary?

 

This is what I have always thought. Perhaps people are trying to keep their options open.

[EKS]

Ok, this is going to sound really dumb, but I don't understand the point of counting credits that took place before 9th grade unless the student is graduating early. In other words, if my student takes algebra in 6th, and, say, takes precalculus in 9th, and fills up the rest of high school with more advanced math (it's not as though I'd let a student advanced in math go without math for a year during high school), then why would the actual credits for alg/geom/alg 2 be necessary? I thought the colleges would assume these courses were taken prior to high school, since they are prerequisites for the more advanced math. Or, is there an admissions purpose in trying to point out that these courses were taken at a younger age? Or, does awarding the credits - toward the total - allow for a lighter load during high school (for, say, electives or something)?

 

It's likely that one or two of my kids will take alg in 6th, and another one in 7th. At the moment, we are planning on sending them to a Jesuit high school, and I do not expect that their high school transcripts will reflect courses taken during middle school, nor do I care. I'm sure I'm missing something - I can't figure out why it would be different if we were hs-ing for high school.

 

Some schools specify that certain courses be taken. Geometry is a common example. Some schools want a certain number of years of a foreign language. That sort of thing. There's a balancing act if you're wanting to keep your options open for early graduation and on time graduation.

[wapiti]

Some schools specify that certain courses be taken. Geometry is a common example. Some schools want a certain number of years of a foreign language. That sort of thing. There's a balancing act if you're wanting to keep your options open for early graduation and on time graduation.

 

Ok, thank you. That makes sense - irritating though...

 

I think I'd assign credit based on content. Math, foreign language and science probably would be the easiest subjects to determine proper credit for, because I think there are relatively standard amounts of content for those subjects at the high school level (or so it would seem, though I grew up in NYS with Regents exams, which appear to attempt to standardize content across the state).

[beaners]

I've noticed that most of the threads on this board involve issues with younger kids--frequently kids younger than typical school age. I can't remember if this was always the case.

 

Why do you think this is?

 

 

I read quite a bit but haven't been posting too much here about my own young children. Recently I've seen some posts on the K8 board that seem to suggest young children aren't actually understanding what they read or that parents are exaggerating. I'm starting to think that this board might be a safer place to ask questions or make comments for my own young children.

[EKS]

Ok, thank you. That makes sense - irritating though...

 

I think I'd assign credit based on content. Math, foreign language and science probably would be the easiest subjects to determine proper credit for, because I think there are relatively standard amounts of content for those subjects at the high school level (or so it would seem, though I grew up in NYS with Regents exams, which appear to attempt to standardize content across the state).

 

The input is easy--use high school level materials. Where things get dicey is the output, especially, like you mentioned, for things like history/geography and English.

 

But there are unseen expectations for high school as well. Let's take foreign language as an example. Many schools require 2+ years of the same foreign language. IMO, the schools don't really care if the kid knows something about a language other than English. I think it is being used as a proxy for something else, namely the ability to memorize a lot of foreign sounding vocabulary in a short amount of time, the ability to be flexible in one's thinking, and the ability to stick with a program that builds on itself for more than one school year. And I think that implicit in this is the idea that the kid is orchestrating his own study time. So, if I start my 9yo in a high school Latin program where we take it at his pace and I orchestrate his studying, when he finishes whatever is designated as a year, should he be granted a high school credit? He knows a year's worth of content, but he hasn't satisfied the implied expectations.

 

Maybe I'm the only one who worries about these things. But to me they are important issues that don't have easy answers.

[Crimson Wife]

Some schools specify that certain courses be taken. Geometry is a common example. Some schools want a certain number of years of a foreign language. That sort of thing. There's a balancing act if you're wanting to keep your options open for early graduation and on time graduation.

 

I figure with the AOPS courses available, I can always use a more advanced geometry course to fulfill any such requirement.

 

Foreign language courses after a certain point are more like literature classes- it's not like the student is going to run out of works to study in the original.

[kiana]

Ok, this is going to sound really dumb, but I don't understand the point of counting credits that took place before 9th grade unless the student is graduating early. In other words, if my student takes algebra in 6th, and, say, takes precalculus in 9th, and fills up the rest of high school with more advanced math (it's not as though I'd let a student advanced in math go without math for a year during high school), then why would the actual credits for alg/geom/alg 2 be necessary? I thought the colleges would assume these courses were taken prior to high school, since they are prerequisites for the more advanced math. Or, is there an admissions purpose in trying to point out that these courses were taken at a younger age? Or, does awarding the credits - toward the total - allow for a lighter load during high school (for, say, electives or something)?

 

Some schools *require* Algebra 1 on the transcript, no matter when it was taken. Some schools want to see only the last 4 years. Sometimes a parent is not sure whether a year will be 8th or 9th grade and is keeping records just in case. Sometimes a kid may not have taken bio after his 8th grade hs bio class but taken 2 years each of physics/chem, and they want to reflect that he did indeed have a high school life science class.

[KAR120C]

Ok, this is going to sound really dumb, but I don't understand the point of counting credits that took place before 9th grade unless the student is graduating early. In other words, if my student takes algebra in 6th, and, say, takes precalculus in 9th, and fills up the rest of high school with more advanced math (it's not as though I'd let a student advanced in math go without math for a year during high school), then why would the actual credits for alg/geom/alg 2 be necessary? I thought the colleges would assume these courses were taken prior to high school, since they are prerequisites for the more advanced math. Or, is there an admissions purpose in trying to point out that these courses were taken at a younger age? Or, does awarding the credits - toward the total - allow for a lighter load during high school (for, say, electives or something)?

 

It's likely that one or two of my kids will take alg in 6th, and another one in 7th. At the moment, we are planning on sending them to a Jesuit high school, and I do not expect that their high school transcripts will reflect courses taken during middle school, nor do I care. I'm sure I'm missing something - I can't figure out why it would be different if we were hs-ing for high school.

As far as credits go, there are a couple different issues.

 

One is how many you need to graduate... That's sort of an early college issue - and as long as we aren't looking at early college I'm not too worried about that. (If we do end up looking at early college, I have the records to make the transcript he'll need.)

 

Two is the specific credits any one college might want to see - as EKS said. The one and only adcom I've talked to about it absolutely wanted to see Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Geometry on the transcript no matter how early they were taken. I wouldn't use that to lighten the load later... DS will be taking math and science every year he is in school. But if the college specifically wants it, or if for instance there's a benefit to showing extra years of a language, I'll include the years that were before "official" ninth grade.

 

Three is where I think all of this starts to get very tricky and hard to predict... the "what have you done lately" issue... If DS applies to college as an 18 year old, I won't count on them caring that he did four years of a language six years ago. If he's forgotten it all, I'd rather have something more recent. Similarly, finishing a ton of math young won't impress anyone if he then dropped it altogether.

 

But on the converse, there's also the issue of kids who do things at middle school ages that would never be assumed if they weren't reported... DS did both Discrete Math and AP Statistics before high school. If I can't put them on the transcript I won't, but if I can.... they're not something anyone is going to assume he already did.

 

What I think we get out of counting high school credits early is that we've covered all the bases for any future transcript needs - whether or not a college wants to see even the old stuff, and whether or not early college becomes a consideration. And if there is any "interim" option - summer programs, bricks-and-mortar high school, etc. - that requires a certain background, even if they're never going to make it onto a regular transcript, it's a benefit to have them recorded in whatever way will be convincing to those programs. With any luck that would mean he could skip the intro courses and move on to something more interesting. Both of these could come to absolutely nothing in the end, but I'd rather have over-prepared and not needed it than find myself scrambling to re-create a course description in retrospect that I could have done more easily at the time.

[wapiti]

The input is easy--use high school level materials. Where things get dicey is the output, especially, like you mentioned, for things like history/geography and English.

 

But there are unseen expectations for high school as well. Let's take foreign language as an example. Many schools require 2+ years of the same foreign language. IMO, the schools don't really care if the kid knows something about a language other than English. I think it is being used as a proxy for something else, namely the ability to memorize a lot of foreign sounding vocabulary in a short amount of time, the ability to be flexible in one's thinking, and the ability to stick with a program that builds on itself for more than one school year. And I think that implicit in this is the idea that the kid is orchestrating his own study time. So, if I start my 9yo in a high school Latin program where we take it at his pace and I orchestrate his studying, when he finishes whatever is designated as a year, should he be granted a high school credit? He knows a year's worth of content, but he hasn't satisfied the implied expectations.

 

Maybe I'm the only one who worries about these things. But to me they are important issues that don't have easy answers.

 

I agree that the output can the dicey part for younger students (maybe there are similar issues for 2E students, or even average students with LDs?). However, if he could pass a high-school-level exam (even if you have to administer such exam in more than one sitting), then I think it's perfectly fair to record credit if you may be looking at early graduation, though I probably wouldn't include it on a transcript that goes up to 12th if it occurred before maybe 7th (just thinking out loud:tongue_smilie:). I have no plan to do so for my dd10 when she finishes Henle I in 6th, but early graduation is not on our radar. I don't have an issue over who orchestrates the study time and I'd be surprised if colleges would - I kind of assume that if the student is graduating early, they'll have developed the necessary study skills for college by that point.

[wapiti]

Two is the specific credits any one college might want to see - as EKS said. The one and only adcom I've talked to about it absolutely wanted to see Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Geometry on the transcript no matter how early they were taken.

 

With so many more kids taking alg in 8th grade than there used to be, I wonder what schools do. (I took alg in 8th and it was not on my high school transcript.)

 

But on the converse, there's also the issue of kids who do things at middle school ages that would never be assumed if they weren't reported... DS did both Discrete Math and AP Statistics before high school. If I can't put them on the transcript I won't, but if I can.... they're not something anyone is going to assume he already did.

 

 

Thinking way ahead, assuming my kids go to a brick and mortar high school, I wonder whether it would be of value, for admissions purposes, to somehow include earlier coursework in the application. Math and maybe Latin would be the areas - I don't have much of a plan for middle school science just yet :tongue_smilie:. The high school in question has placement tests for math and foreign language, so I'm not concerned about landing in the right spot (and for some reason I doubt dd will need AP Vergil freshman year :lol: though she'll probably be adding a modern foreign language at that point).

[Bang!Zoom!]

Hey that's a really good question!

 

If your child does go to a b/m school, but does do work from home, how do you blend the transcripts?

[EKS]

I don't have an issue over who orchestrates the study time and I'd be surprised if colleges would - I kind of assume that if the student is graduating early, they'll have developed the necessary study skills for college by that point.

 

But what about study skills at the time they take the course (say at age 9)?

 

I do think that colleges are not just interested in content, though if you were to ask them they might not even know what to make of the question. Study skills and motivation and pacing are implicit in a high school credit.

 

Another issue--do you allow young kids an extended time accommodation on tests designed for kids several years older? I don't necessarily mean standardized tests, but regular classroom tests (or their homeschool equivalent). Do you allow them the same types of help with organization that a kid with ADHD gets in high school? Speed increases as kids mature, as do organizational skills. Does asynchrony deserve to be accommodated in this way when high school credit is at issue? And if not, why not?

[EKS]

With so many more kids taking alg in 8th grade than there used to be, I wonder what schools do. (I took alg in 8th and it was not on my high school transcript.)

 

 

In our district, if a kid takes algebra in grades 7 or 8, it is recorded on the high school transcript, if the kid (and his parents) want it there. However, algebra taken prior to 7th grade does not count.

[quark]

First, I'm so very grateful for this discussion. So good to know others are thinking, discussing and experiencing all this and are so willing to share.

 

 

Two is the specific credits any one college might want to see - as EKS said. The one and only adcom I've talked to about it absolutely wanted to see Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Geometry on the transcript no matter how early they were taken. I wouldn't use that to lighten the load later... DS will be taking math and science every year he is in school. But if the college specifically wants it, or if for instance there's a benefit to showing extra years of a language, I'll include the years that were before "official" ninth grade.

 

Ok, so I'll come out and say it. I've been reluctant to divulge age because of what people have said to me in the past without having a jot of an idea of what kind of learning happens in our home so please be gentle with me?

 

I have a rising fourth grader who finishes Algebra in September and will if all goes to plan complete Geometry before he begins fifth grade. He will be researching his math ideas, is coming up with equations/ formulas and constantly testing them to see if they are true, already discovered and so on. I have a nice binder filled with all his Algebra homework so I have records of that. If he does Geometry with me, I'll have a binder of homework as well and if he does it with Art of Problem Solving, again, no problems. I'll have the records that he's actually completed this work, on his own. No, mom isn't writing the proofs for him.

 

Should I begin keeping records of his independent number theory research? Of his science lab work if any of it is high school level, showing high school level lab reports? He will take German at high school level this year. Should I begin compiling a transcript? Will it make sense to compile a transcript for a not yet 9-year-old?

 

I haven't decided to send him to college early. I don't believe he'll be ready but who's to say? Yet, reading threads here, it sounds as if there are some things colleges want to see despite the age. What to do?

[EKS]

Hey that's a really good question!

 

If your child does go to a b/m school, but does do work from home, how do you blend the transcripts?

 

One way to do it is to have the kid being officially homeschooled but taking classes at the school. You would then "transfer" the credits to your homeschool.

 

It doesn't work the other way around though, unless the kid is taking a class (online or otherwise) that the b&m school recognizes. In our district, if you are enrolled in the alternative high school (with is another can of worms) you can do what they call "contracts", where you design a course yourself, have the kid do the work, and in the end, if they think it meets their requirements, they'll give you credit for it. Of course, there is *no* information up front about what might be credit worthy (very flaky, I'm so glad I pulled my son out of that program after two months!).

[Crimson Wife]

If your child does go to a b/m school, but does do work from home, how do you blend the transcripts?

 

Wouldn't it be the same as if the student were taking a course through CTY/EPGY or at a CC? There would be the school transcript, plus an additional transcript from whoever is overseeing the other coursework. If that's you, you would want to keep similar records as a full-time HS (course reading lists, tests given, examples of assignments, etc.)

[quark]

Another issue--do you allow young kids an extended time accommodation on tests designed for kids several years older? I don't necessarily mean standardized tests, but regular classroom tests (or their homeschool equivalent). Do you allow them the same types of help with organization that a kid with ADHD gets in high school? Speed increases as kids mature, as do organizational skills. Does asynchrony deserve to be accommodated in this way when high school credit is at issue? And if not, why not?

 

And what if you don't allow accommodations in subjects that are strengths--hoping that the hard work involved will be a great lesson in itself about perseverance and child is driven enough by passion to not need accommodation--but allow a certain level of accommodation in say, subjects that are truly difficult for age, e.g. composition/ writing using prompts not decided upon by the student, help with measurements/ setting up experiments due to chemicals etc?

[wapiti]

But what about study skills at the time they take the course (say at age 9)?

 

I do think that colleges are not just interested in content, though if you were to ask them they might not even know what to make of the question. Study skills and motivation and pacing are implicit in a high school credit.

 

Another issue--do you allow young kids an extended time accommodation on tests designed for kids several years older? I don't necessarily mean standardized tests, but regular classroom tests (or their homeschool equivalent). Do you allow them the same types of help with organization that a kid with ADHD gets in high school? Speed increases as kids mature, as do organizational skills. Does asynchrony deserve to be accommodated in this way when high school credit is at issue? And if not, why not?

 

These are very interesting questions, but mostly due to the necessity of awarding credit to fulfill a specific admissions requirement. I personally would be less likely to graduate someone early where the asynchronicity prevented the high school coursework to be completed in the "usual" manner (as opposed to graduating someone on time who had accommodations due to an LD, for example). That said, I'm not big on timed tests, and probably wouldn't give a timed test unless there were a good reason.

 

On study skills and pacing, I think there are likely to be different perspectives on this. My personal opinion is that these matter less than the content/knowledge acquired for the purposes of high school credit. I know others would look more toward effort, such as a situation where a struggling student exerted "equivalent effort" to a high school course but ultimately only covered half the content, for example. But, that's a situation where the question is whether to award one credit or two, not one credit or zero. For the young, advance student, even if it takes two years instead of one, I think it's fair to award the one credit, especially for the purpose of fulfilling a college admissions requirement such as listing algebra I.

 

On the algebra issue, this is just a guess because I've never looked into it, but I think the more selective colleges will not require that algebra be listed on the transcript, and the vast majority of their applicants will have calculus. However, if I were preparing a transcript for a college that required the transcript to include algebra, I personally would have no qualms listing algebra no matter how early it was taken. I might write it without a grade level - I thought I read a thread on the high school board about how to do that.

 

Is there a difference between listing a course for credit, vs. not for credit?

Edited August 12, 2011 by wapiti

[onaclairadeluna]

I have a rising fourth grader who finishes Algebra in September and will if all goes to plan complete Geometry before he begins fifth grade. He will be researching his math ideas, is coming up with equations/ formulas and constantly testing them to see if they are true, already discovered and so on. I have a nice binder filled with all his Algebra homework so I have records of that. If he does Geometry with me, I'll have a binder of homework as well and if he does it with Art of Problem Solving, again, no problems. I'll have the records that he's actually completed this work, on his own. No, mom isn't writing the proofs for him.

 

When your son turns 11 you should check out mathpath. It is the best thing in the entire universe.

 

FWIW I haven't documented anything yet. My son will be in 8th grade and he has completed the introduction sequence from AOPS and the first two "elements of mathematics books" from the imacs people (which I suppose would be a logic or set theory course). I think if you have binders with his work you should be able to reconstruct a course if you need to. I don't even have that. OK, I am kind of a slacker. Perhaps I am not the best one to give advice. Still I think you have plenty of time to pull this together.

 

I just threw out a ton of his geometry work. And now I am reading this thread and seeing that may have been a mistake. Oops. :tongue_smilie: I am still not worried, I can always give him the book and have him do a few of the challenge problems for review. It wouldn't take long, my son is very prolific in his math writing. It is the one area where he can produce mountains easily.

 

In other subjects the input far exceeds the output. It is more like college-jr high. I haven't felt comfortable splitting the difference and calling it high school. But since I am firmly attached to keeping him home until he is 18 it won't be an issue. This year is the first year that I am expecting HS level output from him. Still I am not counting this year. It is our "trial run". But as I have said in other places my son has 2e issues so this practice year will be invaluable for him. If I felt my son would be ready for early college I might be singing a different song but I am not eager to ship him off (to college at least).

[quark]

When your son turns 11 you should check out mathpath. It is the best thing in the entire universe.

 

I've bookmarked it. :) He's very excited to try it! :)

 

I just threw out a ton of his geometry work. And now I am reading this thread and seeing that may have been a mistake. Oops. :tongue_smilie: I am still not worried, I can always give him the book and have him do a few of the challenge problems for review. It wouldn't take long, my son is very prolific in his math writing. It is the one area where he can produce mountains easily.

Wow, I wish I could ask your son to mentor mine! I'm holding onto everything because we don't know what the future will hold for my husband's career (the line of work he's in isn't very stable in this economy) so if I have to work and the boy has to go to b&m school, at least I'll have records that we did do 'something' while homeschooling.

 

In other subjects the input far exceeds the output. It is more like college-jr high. I haven't felt comfortable splitting the difference and calling it high school. But since I am firmly attached to keeping him home until he is 18 it won't be an issue.

 

We're fortunate that we have so much time. So much can change in the next few years that I am not going to fret about calling it high school too. I appreciate hearing your thoughts above. :)

[8filltheheart]

I've bookmarked it. :) He's very excited to try it! :)

 

 

 

I haven't read this whole thread, but I did want to encourage you to check out Epsilon. It is the "youngest sibling" of Mathcamp and Math Path. http://epsiloncamp.org/ The director of the camp is Kathy in Richmond....check out her posts and you'll be thrilled to be involved in something she is doing!

 

As far as the few other ideas I skimmed in this thread, I do give high school credit for courses where the material is high school level and the input/output are not modified. I do not give credit if i have altered the pace or output. Those are simply my personal criteria.

 

FWIW, I had my ds take the SAT math 2 test this yr after finishing pre-cal. His scores validate that he did finish all those other math courses well before high school.

 

As to why I put them on the transcript......b/c he did the work. ;) It is also a very simple process if you group by subject vs. grade level.

[regentrude]

But there are still the issues of doing high school courses with younger kids. Maybe people aren't as inhibited about posting about their younger kids on the high school board as they used to be.

 

I ask high school related question on the high school board. It does not matter that my kids are not the typical age for the courses. I do not think at an older age there are so many *issues* with giftedness - parents had many years to get used to it.

[regentrude]

Another issue--do you allow young kids an extended time accommodation on tests designed for kids several years older? I don't necessarily mean standardized tests, but regular classroom tests (or their homeschool equivalent). Do you allow them the same types of help with organization that a kid with ADHD gets in high school? Speed increases as kids mature, as do organizational skills. Does asynchrony deserve to be accommodated in this way when high school credit is at issue? And if not, why not?

 

No, I do not give any accommodations. When my 13 y/o took her first college class, she took all exams together with the class right there in the lecture hall - same time, same rules. I do not see acceleration as a disability or disorder; if the kid wants to be accelerated and receive credit, she should be able to handle the work. Otherwise, she could learn less challenging material .

To me, high school and college level studies are a package deal, containing not just material, but overall complexity in thought and organization. If an 11 y/o wants high school credit, he needs to perform. Otherwise, he could work at a Middle grade PACE on high school level CONTENT - that's fine, too - but then I would not give credit.

[onaclairadeluna]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I did want to encourage you to check out Epsilon. It is the "youngest sibling" of Mathcamp and Math Path. http://epsiloncamp.org/ The director of the camp is Kathy in Richmond....check out her posts and you'll be thrilled to be involved in something she is doing!

 

:iagree:

 

Epsilon is put on by the same people. It totally slipped my mind. Check it out.

[catz]

No, I do not give any accommodations. When my 13 y/o took her first college class, she took all exams together with the class right there in the lecture hall - same time, same rules. I do not see acceleration as a disability or disorder; if the kid wants to be accelerated and receive credit, she should be able to handle the work. Otherwise, she could learn less challenging material .

To me, high school and college level studies are a package deal, containing not just material, but overall complexity in thought and organization. If an 11 y/o wants high school credit, he needs to perform. Otherwise, he could work at a Middle grade PACE on high school level CONTENT - that's fine, too - but then I would not give credit.

 

:iagree: Ultimately if you have a college bound child, by the time you send them out to college they need to be ready in ALL ways including socially, emotionally, work load, etc. That said, gifted homeschooled kids locally regularly use CC for classes starting at age 13-14. The CC classes locally are a much different learning environment than a University setting - more like high school really.

 

My 10 year old accepts input at a high level, but is not ready for the work load and output of a high school student. In the meantime, we go wide. So the high school board and curriculum, may be helpful. Or it might be too much output and too dry for our purposes yet. Over the next few years, I would expect some of this to come together for him.

[poetic license]

No, I do not give any accommodations. When my 13 y/o took her first college class, she took all exams together with the class right there in the lecture hall - same time, same rules. I do not see acceleration as a disability or disorder; if the kid wants to be accelerated and receive credit, she should be able to handle the work. Otherwise, she could learn less challenging material .

To me, high school and college level studies are a package deal, containing not just material, but overall complexity in thought and organization. If an 11 y/o wants high school credit, he needs to perform. Otherwise, he could work at a Middle grade PACE on high school level CONTENT - that's fine, too - but then I would not give credit.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't have a child this age but when I started undergrad classes at 14 I had to take the classes as any other student. However, if you are dealing with at-home classes, perhaps you could work up until the student is able to take the exams without accommodations? This is, of course, barring any 2e issues.

[EKS]

This is, of course, barring any 2e issues.

 

So then the issue becomes...there are two kids, one with 2E issues and one without, both working on the same material, and both the same young age. Both need extra time on exams, but the 2E kid gets whatever time he needs, and the 1E kid does not. The 2E kid is successful and the 1E kid is not, simply because he needs more time. Is this fair?

[quark]

So then the issue becomes...there are two kids, one with 2E issues and one without, both working on the same material, and both the same young age. Both need extra time on exams, but the 2E kid gets whatever time he needs, and the 1E kid does not. The 2E kid is successful and the 1E kid is not, simply because he needs more time. Is this fair?

 

Thinking about this further...in the long run, I wonder if the 1E kid will emerge the more successful. Perhaps he/ she would have had to work harder, overcome frustrations the harder way?

 

But if it were a 2E young kid with significant LDs, won't accommodations balance out the effort the 2E kid has to put into other areas?

 

My 1E son took two junior high level math tests this and last year for validation purposes and did well. I didn't give him accommodations because I wanted him to know what it will take for him to earn the customized curriculum he craves. I'm already giving him an easy time in other areas.

[8filltheheart]

So then the issue becomes...there are two kids, one with 2E issues and one without, both working on the same material, and both the same young age. Both need extra time on exams, but the 2E kid gets whatever time he needs, and the 1E kid does not. The 2E kid is successful and the 1E kid is not, simply because he needs more time. Is this fair?

 

First, I think it is completely fair to not give a 1E child extra time specifically b/c the time that the 2E child gets is to accommodate a disability which the 1E child is not having to overcome.

 

Second, it is not the norm for a 2E child to get unlimited time. Different students receive different time extension options. My ds w/processing speeds that are literally in the 1st % is only allowed 1 1/2 time on his exams.

[EthiopianFood]

If a child is working at a certain level, but needs more time than is typical to complete the work, wouldn't you HAVE to count that work? I mean, isn't the alternative to make the child take the course again, if the course is required? I can certainly see that a child could have completed four years of high school work with time accomodations, but is not then ready to graduate or go to college. But if they have the knowledge, shouldn't they then have credit for said knowledge? And won't they show maturity and study skills at a later point in other content areas, which will then earn them the right to graduate?

[Jenny in Florida]

Another issue--do you allow young kids an extended time accommodation on tests designed for kids several years older? I don't necessarily mean standardized tests, but regular classroom tests (or their homeschool equivalent). Do you allow them the same types of help with organization that a kid with ADHD gets in high school? Speed increases as kids mature, as do organizational skills. Does asynchrony deserve to be accommodated in this way when high school credit is at issue? And if not, why not?

 

If I'm counting it for high school credit, it has to be done the same way it would be done by a "regular" high schooler. That's the rule around here.

 

Otherwise, I'm making appropriate accomodations for a bright elementary or middle school student, but I'm not "accelerating."