Reason 4,357,621 why I homeschool in GA

[Jenny in Atl]

Parents irate over CRCT mess

 

 

By LAURA DIAMOND

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 05/24/08

Some public school students cried when told they failed state math and social studies tests.

 

Parents consoled their children, trying to convince them they're not dumb. The parents demanded to know why teachers and state education officials didn't do enough to prepare students.

 

These three groups share an anger and frustration toward the state and State Superintendent of Schools Kathy Cox after this week's breakdown concerning preliminary results on some portions of the Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests.

 

"When you mess with our children, the lioness comes out and we're not going to sit back quietly," said Wendy Ashabranner of Fayetteville, whose son failed the eighth-grade math test. "What's happened is just inexcusable."

 

Nearly every day came surprising news about preliminary results from this year's tests.

 

The state announced Monday that about 40 percent of eight-graders failed the new, tougher math test. Eighth-graders must pass the test to move on to high school. Results were worse on the sixth- and seventh-grade social studies tests, with 70 percent to 80 percent failing, though passing isn't required for grade promotion.

 

Cox thew out the social studies scores Wednesday, citing a disconnect between the test, the standards and what teachers taught. She kept the math scores, explaining the results were valid. She said the state needs more rigorous math education if children are to succeed in college and the workforce.

 

Then the state released records showing projections that anticipated such high failure rates.

 

These developments led Ashabranner to think about pulling her son, Evan Champion, out of Fayette Middle and enrolling him in private school. Her son cried after learning he failed.

 

"This isn't just a little mess or a little problem," she said. "And now I'm supposed to trust them to fix it? "

 

Evan failed the state test by eight points, even though he earned A's and B's in the class. He said the test included topics his teacher didn't get to in class.

 

"I failed even though I worked hard and studied and did my homework and did all the practice tests," Evan said. "I failed and now I may get left back."

 

The results and the way the state handled the situation has infuriated teachers as well, said Tim Callahan, spokesman for the Professional Association of Georgia Educators.

 

"One of the really bad things about this whole debacle is it shakes the confidence of everyone in the system," Callahan said.

 

The state has heard from parents, teachers and others frustrated and angered by what happened, said Dana Tofig, spokesman for the state education department.

 

"We realize this is an emotional issue for parents and teachers and we certainly sympathize with that," he said.

 

In an e-mail, Tofig drew a distinction between social studies and math. While the state found problems with the social studies standards, none was found with math, he wrote. In fact, the state projections showed an even worse failure rate, with about half failing.

 

Tofig wrote that data show there were no unusual problems with the new math curriculum and tests. He expected scores to improve as teachers become more comfortable with the standards.

 

The exam "was certainly a more rigorous test, but the data shows us that a majority of Georgia's students were able to handle the increased rigor and get over the bar," Tofig wrote. He also wrote that a large number of students who failed came very close to passing.

 

Students face no consequences if they fail the social studies exam, but the state said changes will be made because of the obvious disconnect. The state will ask a panel of teachers and curriculum experts to review what went wrong. Depending on its findings, the group may suggest changes to the standards and possibly the test.

 

"The issues that led to the invalidation of the social studies scores can absolutely be fixed," Tofig wrote. "We certainly will not rush any changes but we will also work efficiently to make sure any needed revisions are made to the curriculum."

 

Some social studies teachers said the state is putting too much emphasis on the panel. The panel's recommendations must be approved quickly so teachers can receive training on the revisions before students return in August.

 

Jason Adams, a seventh-grade social studies teacher at Lost Mountain Middle in Cobb County, questioned why teachers should expect any improvements.

 

"It's not like they did well by us this year," he said.

 

Lang Oglesby, who teaches seventh grade at Schley County Middle School, expects the problems to continue next year, so he plans to teach something else. "This ordeal, this debacle took something away from me," he said. "I lost the confidence to do well by my kids."

[abbeyej]

I'm very curious if they'll be forced to release the tests to the public after all this outcry. I know *I*'d be interested to know what's on them!

 

I wonder if we'll have a whole lot of new members at LEAD this fall... ;) We need some more high school students. ;)

[genie]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

I'm all for raising standards, but when it becomes a matter of shoving as much info into a kids head and hoping that it all stays in there just long enough to take a test, that's not education! And those poor kids! The emotional scars are going to stick with them long after they have been released from their unpaid duties as official state guinea pigs.

[chiguirre]

So, are they really going to hold back 40% of 8th graders??? Where are they going to get the classroom space and teachers for that? What a debacle!

[nmoira]

Whoa.

 

I just had a Keanu Reeves moment.

 

 

 

:leaving:

[Philothea]

UGH-- Don't you just hate it when these teachers don't spend enough time teaching to standardized tests! It's all their faults!!

 

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Perry]

I'd be willing to bet the test is just fine, but the great majority of schools are using the dreaded fuzzy math curricula, like EM, Connected Math, and Core Plus Math. Until they ditch this model of teaching math, the kids are going to suffer.

 

What would be really nice is if they would disaggregate the data and look at scores as a function of curriculum.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

UGH-- Don't you just hate it when these teachers don't spend enough time teaching to standardized tests! It's all their faults!!

 

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

I hate the notion of teaching to the test as well. I REALLY hate it.

 

But I think in this case, there has to be a *standard* to teach to. Maybe the test, maybe a scope and sequence that the test encompasses. When students are making an A with a weak teacher, they aren't actually being educated. They are being passed. They think they are working to mastery at grade level, but they are not. How would they (or their parents, who may not have even taken 8th grade math) know they weren't learning what they were supposed to for grade level? "Mrs. Greene, I'm pretty sure we're supposed to cover quadratic equations this year, plus some applications of probs and stats. Why are we skipping those?"

 

I am actually *for* norms and exit testing. At the very least, the topics will be presented in the classes. You at least have a minimum standard. Which in my mind is better than no standard.

 

Does this make any sense?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'd be willing to bet the test is just fine, but the great majority of schools are using the dreaded fuzzy math curricula, like EM, Connected Math, and Core Plus Math. Until they ditch this model of teaching math, the kids are going to suffer.

 

What would be really nice is if they would disaggregate the data and look at scores as a function of curriculum.

 

And I'd love to offer this math test to homeschoolers who use a standardized curriculum online such as Calvert or K12 (which GA, IIRC, pays for for homeschoolers) where the content is absolutely standardized and is not teacher-dependent. Now THAT would be an interesting "test of the test."

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I just had a Keanu Reeves moment.

 

 

Ok, educate me please, what's a Keanu Reeves moment? I know the actor, have seen maybe one film by him. But I don't associate him with failed tests...

:confused:

[nmoira]

Ok, educate me please, what's a Keanu Reeves moment? I know the actor, have seen maybe one film by him. But I don't associate him with failed tests...

:confused:

It was the "Whoa." I actually said it, rather than just typing it, and it sounded eerily reminiscent of Mr. Reeves. :)

[sleepy]

yup. it's just ridiculous.

[Stacia]

I replied to an earlier thread on this, but since I still feel the same way, I'll just cut & paste my answer here again. ;)

-----------------------------------------

I'm just so mad over this whole mess. I've been following it in the news this week. :mad:

 

I was writing a long, soapbox speech, but my words aren't coming out correctly, so I'll spare you all. LOL. ;)

 

But, really, I'm so upset over the education (or lack thereof) that our students are getting. They are not getting what they need or deserve as an education & they are going to be woefully unprepared to head out into real life or even college, if they so choose. I know that tests are not a good benchmark; regardless, it is not just test scores which are showing that there are big problems out there for students in our state. Ultimately, it affects all of us -- our communties and nation as a whole. To quote Sesame Street, "These are the people in our neighborhood, in our neighborhood, ...." And, I'm mad that our tax dollars are funding such a substandard level of education in this state. It screams incompetence at so many levels.

 

Blech! :ack2:

-------------------------------------

P.S. When I say 'our' students, I just mean all schooled children in GA, even though I'm hsing my dc.

 

 

 

[jejily]

And, I'm mad that our tax dollars are funding such a substandard level of education in this state. It screams incompetence at so many levels.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, at least your tax dollars are funding education in Georgia! Here in Alabama, the state legislature ended this year's regular session without approving an education budget. Hundred of teachers were going to get pink slips. That's still a possibility, I guess, although they've called a special session for next week, just to vote on this.

 

I'm sure it will all work out... but I'm glad I'm not worrying about what programs are being cut next year at the elementary school, now that I'm homeschooling DS10. DD15 is at the public high school, but I'm ready (and more than willing!!) to homeschool her, too, if the situation requires it.

[genie]

And I'd love to offer this math test to homeschoolers who use a standardized curriculum online such as Calvert or K12 (which GA, IIRC, pays for for homeschoolers) where the content is absolutely standardized and is not teacher-dependent. Now THAT would be an interesting "test of the test."

 

However, anyone who has compared Calvert to K12 math would likely admit there is a huge difference between even these two standardized curricula. And while the content may not be teacher-dependent, the actual teaching/learning of the material would at least to some extent depend on the abilities of the parent / "learning coach", wouldn't it?

 

If this is a state-mandated standardized test in GA, the students who participate in the virtual academies would have been required to take the test too. So once the full reports are issued, we should be able to see exactly how it panned out for the virtual students.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

However, anyone who has compared Calvert to K12 math would likely admit there is a huge difference between even these two standardized curricula. And while the content may not be teacher-dependent, the actual teaching/learning of the material would at least to some extent depend on the abilities of the parent / "learning coach", wouldn't it?

 

If this is a state-mandated standardized test in GA, the students who participate in the virtual academies would have been required to take the test too. So once the full reports are issued, we should be able to see exactly how it panned out for the virtual students.

 

Yeah, and that's why I said "or." If a kid got, say, a B in Calvert 8th math using virtual school, wouldn't all students who use this mode and got a B be reasonably expected to perform similarly on the 8th grade leaving test? Their grades would determine their level of learning more accurately.

 

Getting a B in South Cobb County Middle, Ms. Jenkins class and getting a B in North Alphretta Middle, Ms. Fortunata's class wouldn't have the same possibility or probability of correlation, KWIM? That was my only point. :001_smile:

[Jenny in Atl]

Yeah, and that's why I said "or." If a kid got, say, a B in Calvert 8th math using virtual school, wouldn't all students who use this mode and got a B be reasonably expected to perform similarly on the 8th grade leaving test? Their grades would determine their level of learning more accurately.

 

Getting a B in South Cobb County Middle, Ms. Jenkins class and getting a B in North Alphretta Middle, Ms. Fortunata's class wouldn't have the same possibility or probability of correlation, KWIM? That was my only point. :001_smile:

 

Looks like Atl news makes it up your way a little too much. Or have you lived in the metro area before?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Looks like Atl news makes it up your way a little too much. Or have you lived in the metro area before?

 

Oh, no, totally made that up. Those are the only Georgia place names that are even on my radar! LOL Well, that and Augusta and Gainesville, because of exit names from when we lived in SC. :D

[dtsmamtj]

WOW!!!

 

T

[Another Lynn]

I don't know anymore than what was posted here, but I think it's really sad that the State Education Dept. ties the hands of teachers and then when there is failure, they turn around and blame the teachers saying....

 

"Tofig wrote that data show there were no unusual problems with the new math curriculum and tests. He expected scores to improve as teachers become more comfortable with the standards."

 

There has to be a disconnect SOMEWHERE along the way if a child has been receiving As and Bs with their curriculum specifications and then fails the standardized math test! Wouldn't it be interesting to see where that disconnect really is?

[Jenny in Atl]

Oh, no, totally made that up. Those are the only Georgia place names that are even on my radar! LOL Well, that and Augusta and Gainesville, because of exit names from when we lived in SC. :D

 

Well, your guess was nearly perfect. The South Cobb area has a lot of problems where North Fulton (Alpharetta) has a high school, called Milton, that looks like Monticello. I'm not joking!

 

The difference in quality from school to school here is dramatic. In East Cobb (near me) there are three high schools within a few miles of each other. Walton is like a private school (more AP classes than any other hs in the state), while Lassiter has been having a lot of issues over sports being the focus more than academics. And these are schools in the "rich" areas of Cobb. Head west a bit to Marietta High and there they are just trying to get some of these kids on grade level in reading. No easy answers here..

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Well, your guess was nearly perfect. The South Cobb area has a lot of problems where North Fulton (Alpharetta) has a high school, called Milton, that looks like Monticello. I'm not joking!

 

The difference in quality from school to school here is dramatic. In East Cobb (near me) there are three high schools within a few miles of each other. Walton is like a private school (more AP classes than any other hs in the state), while Lassiter has been having a lot of issues over sports being the focus more than academics. And these are schools in the "rich" areas of Cobb. Head west a bit to Marietta High and there they are just trying to get some of these kids on grade level in reading. No easy answers here..

 

Wow. Amazing. No easy answers is right. The divide between the haves and the have nots in this case looks rather startling.

[Mommy22alyns]

I caught sight of that article while catching up on my Braves news. This is just all kinds of wrong:

 

Cox thew out the social studies scores Wednesday, citing a disconnect between the test, the standards and what teachers taught.

 

 

:confused: Sounds to me like they need to get on the same page!

 

I graduated high school in GA (North Springs) and feel like I had a pretty good education those last 2 years. But that drew a good number of fairly affluent students as well (not that I was among them :tongue_smilie: ).

[Tracey in TX]

Niece attends private school in Alpharetta. Interesting that tuition is going up as state test results are published? Correlation?

 

 

I'm mortified by "teaching the test" concept and have always vocalized my disdain for the practice. We're undereducating our kids in our to prove to ourselves just how smart they are. And heaven forbid, we don't want to let anyone feel badly about himself by demanding he prove his academic worthiness prior to advancement. Hardcore? Maybe. But it's worked for a couple hundred years, and other countries demand more of their children. Texas schools actually have specialized textbooks which summarize chapters as sidebars to get the quick points for the standardized tests, sort of like a Cliff Notes in books. ARGH.

 

What's the next step for the Georgia school system? Will anyone be held accountable for this debacle?

[Peek a Boo]

So, are they really going to hold back 40% of 8th graders??? Where are they going to get the classroom space and teachers for that? What a debacle!

 

nah --cuz if you read the article all the way through, 6th and 7th graders did even worse!! So there won't be that many of THEM moving up either. And maybe after this debacle, there will be a sharp decline in people sending their younger kids to PS......

 

 

Well, at least your tax dollars are funding education in Georgia! Here in Alabama, the state legislature ended this year's regular session without approving an education budget. Hundred of teachers were going to get pink slips. That's still a possibility, I guess, although they've called a special session for next week, just to vote on this.

 

 

 

i seem to remember someone saying that several places do this: teachers get pink slips so the State Ed Dept doesn't have to pay salary, insurance, etc for those few months. Then they hire them back right before school starts. Now THAT's a raw deal.

[SheilaZ]

:ack2:I guess that new integrted math program that the rolled out last year didn't live up to the hype. (Algebra, Algebra II, Trig, and Geometry are no longer taught as individual courses.)

 

These 8th graders are the first to have the new program. I tutored 3 8th graders this past year. I wonder how they did on the CRCT.

[Rhondabee]

I just wonder how many of those who passed, passed because they were coached by Sylvan (or something similar). They are *everywhere* in Cobb County! I can't tell you how many people came out of the woodwork to tell us how great Sylvan had been/was for their child, and that *surely* that was better than homeschooling. (never mind that it costs thousands of dollars, and has to be done *in addition* to school! - and this is *supposed* to be one of the best places to send your kids to school - that's why we're here!)

 

Haven't talked to any of them, yet. Though, most of them would be parents of 7th graders, and not really affected *this* year.

 

BTW - the social studies test wasn't a requirement to promote to the next grade. But, a letter to the editor here (in Cobb County) told that one of the questions on the 6th grade exam was who had won American Idol?!?!?

 

(And, there will be summer school and re-testing for the math.)

 

and, yes, I could see this coming when ds was in 5th grade making A's and couldn't write a sentence to save his life~

Rhondabee

[Stacia]

>>Walton is like a private school (more AP classes than any other hs in the state)<<

 

I graduated from Walton, lol. It had that reputation even way back when.... But, I moved here in the middle of 9th grade, having started high school in VA (suburb of DC). Even coming into the *best* (or one of the best) high schools in GA, it was nothing compared to the school in VA. I pretty much slept/did little work for my first 3 years of high school because it was so easy (and I was one of the the very serious/studious type of students). Finally, in my sr. year (AP classes), I got around to doing the same stuff I had been starting in 9th grade in VA.

 

Says something, eh?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

and, yes, I could see this coming when ds was in 5th grade making A's and couldn't write a sentence to save his life~

Rhondabee

 

Same for me with dd in 5th in South Jersey. I could see the road she was walking and was pretty sure we didn't like where it was heading.