Draconian Homeschooler ! I love this term.

[StartingOver]

I will adopt it if no one has any objections. ;-)

 

I have been out of the public school system for a very long time. I saw that the system was broken in 1982, when I left school. I have not walked into one since. But I have seen what they have produced in my area. Which is really sad.

 

I watched Waiting on Superman tonight. Which didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, well maybe that the schools are even worse than I thought in some places. Even in my Exceptional School District, only 69% of children graduate. There is something very wrong with that. Not to mention that some districts only graduate 20% of children. And of those only a small portion are actually prepared for college. The majority need remedial classes first.

 

I have been a very rigorous classical homeschooler since I first read The Well Trained Mind in 1999. I will not apologize. It has worked well for my family.

 

It makes me sad to read some of the posts here. I just don't understand how some parents don't strive for more. I know I will get flamed, I have my fire retardant suit on. :lol:

 

But more than that, I don't understand why parents are standing up and demanding change. Why do so many just accept public school the way it is? It is truly a lottery, taking such a chance with your child's education is just something I can't fathom.

 

Stepping down now, just needed to rant.

[Ailaena]

Too late, you'll have to share :tongue_smilie:

 

I stole the idea from someone else on this board and we now have the (semi)official homeschool name of Draconian Academy. We haven't decided whether or not to use it for college apps, though. She even had an awesome banner made up, I will have to look for it!

[StartingOver]

Too late, you'll have to share :tongue_smilie:

 

I stole the idea from someone else on this board and we now have the (semi)official homeschool name of Draconian Academy. We haven't decided whether or not to use it for college apps, though. She even had an awesome banner made up, I will have to look for it!

 

I have no problem sharing. :lol: I think we will be the Draconian Classical Academy, a bit different LOL

[TracieT]

Why aren't people standing up? Because what they think about everything is:

 

"It was good enough for me, it's good enough for them."

"I did it and I'm fine."

 

Because we were taught in public school to strive for mediocrity. To memorize and pass the test....because the test score is what matters, not what we retain. We are a success because of our grades, not our knowledge or accomplishments. Unless it's on the football field. Then accomplishments matter. That's what we want for our kids...to be that kind of success.

 

Not to mention that school is a free babysitter....don't rock the boat and mess with that! I know wonderful people who truly love their kids who are living for the day they are all in school all day. Not for their child's education, but for their own freedom.

 

That's why they don't demand more. What's there is "enough."

[TracyR]

Very well said , Tracie. I couldn't agree more. I know I homeschool my children because I want more and want better for my daughters. We do have a good private school, which my daughters attended last year, but we can't afford it anymore. OUr public school is a joke here and I don't want to have anything to do with it. I love my children, much to much to send them there.

[Rosie_0801]

The posts on here that make you sad are probably written by people who are considered hardcore revolutionaries in their native circles. Is it reasonable to diss people for not being tougher than a hardcore revolutionary?

 

Rosie

[Bang!Zoom!]

SO, I feel for ya, I really do. I've seen Waiting for Superman a few times. (It's chopped as a full video on youtube if anyone wants to hunt it up.)

 

I've researched the work of Rhee & other reformers deeply. Is it silly of me to admit I cried at the documentary when the vote was presented at the union meeting? It broke my heart, it really did. I was very moved. I can't even begin to say what I sensed in that portion of the filming.

 

I've also been deeply engaged in reform movements like charter and such. And I mean rallies, door to door, volunteering, coding documents and the more political seasons that move through the year when it comes to voicing and expressing. I've spent a lot of time for many years..and now..today...as an illustration of where I am mentally...

 

I'm "given" twenty minutes per year face to face time with the teacher of my child. Let me retype that so it's clear. 20 minutes. Total. All year. In conference time.

 

I no longer devote time to lobbying, fundraising, pushing my concerns or communicating at all with the school. I've tried and had the door and bureaucracy set square at my feet. I know my place as they define it.

 

I do not buy candy/calendars/cookies/photos. I do not PTA.

 

My value lies in the other 180 days and when she returns home. I do not work outside the home in a traditional career anymore.

 

I am sneered at by my PS peers as a mother who "does too much." I'm shunned in about every social group of mothers you could throw a label at and have it half stick. I am truly alone in what I do and what I understand.

 

But whatever. My heart is solid as a rock.

 

And you know what I lie in wait for? Why I tolerate it?

 

Because out there, somewhere, one day...a teacher in PS is going to show up and blow my daughter's mind.

 

There are connections out there in PS land that are a very special type of dynamite.

 

And if it never happens?

 

That's what keeps me up at night sometimes. That's the thing that shakes my soul and tests my faith.

Edited July 20, 2011 by one*mom
name goof

[Joyofsixreboot]

In my area the whole social/ sport thing is far more important than academics. And the school is full of experts. They must know what's best. And many parents of my acquaintance just don't really want to be with their kids any more than necessary. Maybe that is just our community....or maybe not.:glare: I may not be as 'draconian' as some but my kids are going to know how to think for themselves. I'm providing the world with more forward thinking misfits.

Edited July 20, 2011 by joyofsix

[WishboneDawn]

It makes me sad to read some of the posts here. I just don't understand how some parents don't strive for more. I know I will get flamed, I have my fire retardant suit on. :lol:

 

I find it's not that they don't strive for more, it's that they strive for something different. :001_smile:

[Parrothead]

It makes me sad to read some of the posts here. I just don't understand how some parents don't strive for more.

Maybe because

 

 

• there has recently been a death in the family;

• one of the parents is ill;

• one of the children is ill;

 

 

 

• the parent is a single working parent dedicated to providing the best education possible for his/her child(ren), but who does not have the luxury of being home 24/7;

• the parent has decided that a gentler approach to school is what is best for his/her child(ren);

• the parent(s) don't homeschool for strict academic reasons;

• the child has special needs and what you perceive to be lax homeschooling is actually rigorous homeschooling for that child(ren);

• the child may have already decided upon a non-academic pursuit and does not/will not need a rigorous academic career;

• the parents have realized that their child(ren) learn better using non-traditional methods - what looks to you like slacking off is actually a fairly rigorous education;

• the parents may be more efficient than you and actually don't have to work as hard at homeschooling than you and yours do.

 

 

The reasons are numerous. Actually much more numerous than I have time or inclination to list here. So how about going and putting your little flame suit away and realize that there are as many ways and reasons homeschoolers homeschool as there are homeschoolers. Obviously they won't all be as perfect as you, but the vast majority are doing the best they can. And 99% of the time that is still better than many public schools.

[WishboneDawn]

Maybe because

 

 

• there has recently been a death in the family;

• one of the parents is ill;

• one of the children is ill;

 

 

 

• the parent is a single working parent dedicated to providing the best education possible for his/her child(ren), but who does not have the luxury of being home 24/7;

• the parent has decided that a gentler approach to school is what is best for his/her child(ren);

• the parent(s) don't homeschool for strict academic reasons;

• the child has special needs and what you perceive to be lax homeschooling is actually rigorous homeschooling for that child(ren);

• the child may have already decided upon a non-academic pursuit and does not/will not need a rigorous academic career;

• the parents have realized that their child(ren) learn better using non-traditional methods - what looks to you like slacking off is actually a fairly rigorous education;

• the parents may be more efficient than you and actually don't have to work as hard at homeschooling than you and yours do.

 

 

The reasons are numerous. Actually much more numerous than I have time or inclination to list here. So how about going and putting your little flame suit away and realize that there are as many ways and reasons homeschoolers homeschool as there are homeschoolers. Obviously they won't all be as perfect as you, but the vast majority are doing the best they can. And 99% of the time that is still better than many public schools.

 

I'm becoming increasingly classical and draconian but I don't want that shift to mean I can't see and appreciate what other homeschoolers are doing for their children. We have different goals, abilities and circumstances.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

In my area the whole social/ sport thing is far more impotent than academics. And the school is full of experts. They must know what's best. And many parents of my acquaintance just don't really want to be with their kids anymore than necessary. Maybe that is just our community....or maybe not.:glare: I may not be as 'draconian' as some but my kids are going to know how to think for themselves. I'm providing the world with more forward thinking misfits.

 

:iagree: This is how it is around here, too. People just trust that the school knows best. I am amazed that parents aren't interested in knowing what their kids are doing for 7-8 hours a day, 36 weeks a year.

[StartingOver]

Why aren't people standing up? Because what they think about everything is:

 

"It was good enough for me, it's good enough for them."

"I did it and I'm fine."

 

Because we were taught in public school to strive for mediocrity. To memorize and pass the test....because the test score is what matters, not what we retain. We are a success because of our grades, not our knowledge or accomplishments. Unless it's on the football field. Then accomplishments matter. That's what we want for our kids...to be that kind of success.

 

Not to mention that school is a free babysitter....don't rock the boat and mess with that! I know wonderful people who truly love their kids who are living for the day they are all in school all day. Not for their child's education, but for their own freedom.

 

That's why they don't demand more. What's there is "enough."

 

I cringe when I hear a parent in the aisles at the Back to School sales, talking about not being able to wait till the kids go back. They just can't wait to get rid of them.

[StartingOver]

The posts on here that make you sad are probably written by people who are considered hardcore revolutionaries in their native circles. Is it reasonable to diss people for not being tougher than a hardcore revolutionary?

 

Rosie

 

Rosie, I didn't diss anyone, I made I statements. This is about how I feel. It is in no way about people who homeschool differently than I do. It is my confusion about how people don't see the big picture of the public schools.

[StartingOver]

Maybe because

 

 

• there has recently been a death in the family;

• one of the parents is ill;

• one of the children is ill;

 

 

 

• the parent is a single working parent dedicated to providing the best education possible for his/her child(ren), but who does not have the luxury of being home 24/7;

• <snip>

• the child may have already decided upon a non-academic pursuit and does not/will not need a rigorous academic career;

• <snip>

 

 

The reasons are numerous. Actually much more numerous than I have time or inclination to list here. So how about going and putting your little flame suit away and realize that there are as many ways and reasons homeschoolers homeschool as there are homeschoolers. Obviously they won't all be as perfect as you, but the vast majority are doing the best they can. And 99% of the time that is still better than many public schools.

 

All of the things above have applied to my family at one point or other. I still insisted that my children would prepare for college. Even though one son had no desire at all to go to college, it is a good thing that I did. All three of my adult children are in college and really appreciate my pushing them. I realize there is no right way, this isn't about homeschoolers and how they homeschool, it is about public schools and how they are broken. If more parents were informed, I can't believe that they wouldn't stand up and DEMAND real change !

[chiguirre]

If more parents were informed, I can't believe that they wouldn't stand up and DEMAND real change !

 

I can't believe that parents don't know how poorly US public education is faring. You'd have to never read/watch anything but sports news to not know. Wait a minute, that describes a large chunk of people! They find the life of the mind boring, never read a book, think anyone who does is weird, and DOMINATE American schools (and a large chunk of society) completely.

 

I've found that people who haven't experienced an American K-12 education can't fathom how anti-intellectual it is. I've tried to explain it to my father and dh, but they just don't get it because they never lived through it. They don't know all the subtle and not so subtle ways kids are encouraged to hide their intelligence and camouflage themselves as "normal".

[Parrothead]

All of the things above have applied to my family at one point or other. I still insisted that my children would prepare for college. Even though one son had no desire at all to go to college, it is a good thing that I did. All three of my adult children are in college and really appreciate my pushing them. I realize there is no right way, this isn't about homeschoolers and how they homeschool, it is about public schools and how they are broken. If more parents were informed, I can't believe that they wouldn't stand up and DEMAND real change !

Then I apologize.

 

It appears that more than one person took your first post as being against homeschooling instead of a query about why parents in general don't do something about the quality of education in public schools.

[NanceXToo]

Then I apologize.

 

It appears that more than one person took your first post as being against homeschooling instead of a query about why parents in general don't do something about the quality of education in public schools.

 

I took it as being a rant against homeschoolers who aren't as "rigorous" as you think they should be. (The OP I mean, not you, Chucki lol) rather than being about public schools, but, glad to see that's not what you meant.

 

Because, in that case, I agreed with the person who said that it's not that we don't strive for more, it's that we strive for something different. I believe in a more gentle approach with young children. I believe in a more hands on approach with even older children. I'm a fairly laid back/relaxed homeschooler. My kids are learning tons and doing great. I'm happy with them, their education, our lives, etc.

 

As for "fixing" the public schools, I wouldn't know the first thing about how to go about that. Some homeschooling gurus believe it, by nature, can't be "fixed." Can I think of changes that would make it better? Sure. Can I think of how to make that happen? No. It took me until my daughter was in third grade to decide I'd had quite enough of it, and I pulled her out of public school to homeschool instead. That was my change- to remove ourselves from the system entirely. (Well, as much as we're allowed to here in PA, which has some of the strictest homeschool laws in the country, anyway)!

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Why aren't people standing up? Because what they think about everything is:

 

"It was good enough for me, it's good enough for them."

"I did it and I'm fine."

 

Because we were taught in public school to strive for mediocrity. To memorize and pass the test....because the test score is what matters, not what we retain. We are a success because of our grades, not our knowledge or accomplishments. Unless it's on the football field. Then accomplishments matter. That's what we want for our kids...to be that kind of success.

 

Not to mention that school is a free babysitter....don't rock the boat and mess with that! I know wonderful people who truly love their kids who are living for the day they are all in school all day. Not for their child's education, but for their own freedom.

 

That's why they don't demand more. What's there is "enough."

 

Honestly, I think that the majority of people have no idea how much better it could be. Public school is what is done, and has been done, so do it they must. They have no idea how truly exceptional eductaion can be and how changed a child can be in another place.

 

 

People just trust that the school knows best.

 

This reminds me of my grandmother and her doctor. He could tell her to drink poison and she would because, after all, he is the expert.

 

I don't think this needs to be about bashing the ways other people do things, and I didn't actually read it that way, possibly because of what I am doing with my own school and the resistance I am running into. I believe that people genuinely have no idea how bad public schools are, how focused on mediocrity and teaching to the test they are. This is not to bash teachers, per se, because I know some truly incredible ones, but PS as a whole is incredibly and, in my view, irretrievably broken in its current iteration.

 

People are dealing with so much now that sometimes it is hard for them to see beyond the end of their nose. That's just life, and patience and compassion works better in the long run. :grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

I assume that to improve the public schools, we'd need most teachers, administrators, parents and legislators to have an education a heck of a lot better than the public school education they actually received. It would probably take decades to arrange that, beginning with raising teacher salaries (apparently some places have great benefits and such, but that's hardly universal) and making it possible to flunk teaching courses. It wouldn't hurt to make it easier for professionals in other areas to move across to teaching.

 

I assume school zoning would have to be abolished too, and public schools be allowed to give entrance exams. Teachers with everyone from gifted to ID kids in their classroom oughtn't be expected to teach as well as they could if they had a smaller range of abilities. Now this could probably never happen because Americans pride themselves on being more egalitarian than this, and of course it would be a very rare person who doesn't think their child would benefit from whatever "the best" is considered to be.

 

I think there are enough insurmountable problems to make most people give up. And that's without getting into suggestions about how the government wants to keep us enslaved. :tongue_smilie:

 

Btw, Kiva is now operating in Detroit. Isn't that nice?

 

Rosie

[ChristineW]

Some are fighting back, but its hard. Parents need to know that there is something better and that their kids are just as entitled to a good education as the rich folks. But lots of these parents are just struggling to survive. If you're working two or three jobs and don't speak English very well, it isn't easy to advocate for your kid.

 

It's not impossible--when I was in law school, we helped parents petition for access to school records, after school tutoring and radical reform. The neighborhood school is central to the community. Most parents don't want to abandon it; they just need help organizing to make it better. The regulations for the new parent trigger law should help make this process easier.

 

http://parentrevolution.org/]

 

Almost makes me miss LA.

[YLVD]

I will adopt it if no one has any objections. ;-)

 

I have been out of the public school system for a very long time. I saw that the system was broken in 1982, when I left school. I have not walked into one since. But I have seen what they have produced in my area. Which is really sad.

 

I watched Waiting on Superman tonight. Which didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, well maybe that the schools are even worse than I thought in some places. Even in my Exceptional School District, only 69% of children graduate. There is something very wrong with that. Not to mention that some districts only graduate 20% of children. And of those only a small portion are actually prepared for college. The majority need remedial classes first.

 

I have been a very rigorous classical homeschooler since I first read The Well Trained Mind in 1999. I will not apologize. It has worked well for my family.

 

It makes me sad to read some of the posts here. I just don't understand how some parents don't strive for more. I know I will get flamed, I have my fire retardant suit on. :lol:

 

But more than that, I don't understand why parents are standing up and demanding change. Why do so many just accept public school the way it is? It is truly a lottery, taking such a chance with your child's education is just something I can't fathom.

 

Stepping down now, just needed to rant.

 

I'm glad that it is working for you. I don't feel offended or anything because I don't fall under that definition.

 

My daughter has learning disabilities. My being a draconian homeschooler would be extremely damaging to her because of that. That doesn't mean that I don't push her in any way.

[YLVD]

Then I apologize.

 

It appears that more than one person took your first post as being against homeschooling instead of a query about why parents in general don't do something about the quality of education in public schools.

 

That's how I took it also.

 

Also, I live in an incredible school district and don't see apathetic parents. I don't have my DD in schools here only due to her LD as we address it better at home. I do see the differences between schools in various districts. That makes me sad. But, I know a lot of involved and amazing parents. I was one when my DD was in public school.

Edited July 21, 2011 by YLVD

[Roadrunner]

My kids are in P.S. Why don't I stand up and do something about it instead of teaching them in secret at home? I am going to try not to ramble here :)

First, everybody has a very different idea of what constitutes a good education. I consider classical model the best. I can tell you that if you tried to rally PS parents to start implementing copywork, memorization and narration (my kids are young) into PS, those same parents will throw rocks at you. In my experience parents think modern/progressive approaches, for the lack of a better work, are needed. Everybody seems to be rushing their kids into Waldorf style schools because it's trendy. What I am trying to say is I can line up bunch of P.S. parents to implement some idea that came out of somebody's PH.D. study (maybe how it's better to smell roses before doing word problems :) ), but I doubt in this area I can rally a single person for a WTM style educatio. So, I send my kids to P.S. and I teach them at home quitely what I consider to be needed.

This relates to another observation. Everybody talks about good schools and bad schools. I watched Waiting for Superman. Problems talked about in the movie are real, but they apply to only a segment of our educational system. Yet not all is well in so called good schools either. My kids go to what is considered a wonderful school. Name it, organic garden where kids get to plant and grow vegetables, art docent program, classical music, school grounds with acres of green land surrounded by mountains. And the smartboards everywhere. It's marvelous. They spend $17K per child a year. We don't even pay for field trips. I am not kidding you. It's a public school. Yet, their choice of reading material I find lacking. They are teaching words "like", "play" as sight words. They apparently don't teach grammar separately, but imbed it into language arts, which for me implies it's poorly thaught. Reading is all based on some graded level books specifically written for schools. History? Yes, they teach something called social studies, but I can't figure out exactly how they structure it. Math is O.K. You get the point. It's not what I would consider high standards. Yet, all the parents are so happy with the school. They think their kids are getting the best education. Now, how do you rally these people for something more meaningful, like MCT maybe? Not a chance.

[StartingOver]

I watched Waiting for Superman. Problems talked about in the movie are real, but they apply to only a segment of our educational system.

 

The whole system is failing. But I have two of those dropout mills, just across the bridge from where I live. I don't live near a town big enough to be have an area called " Inner City " It is my problem too. Those kids will enter the work force in my neighborhood. I think public educations failure is an issue for all of us. The Dumbing Down of American Education has been going on since the early 1970's when we started to stagnate.

 

I feel so bad for the kids, whose parents just settle, and don't scream at the top of their lungs.

[Roadrunner]

The whole system is failing. But I have two of those dropout mills, just across the bridge from where I live. I don't live near a town big enough to be have an area called " Inner City " It is my problem too. Those kids will enter the work force in my neighborhood. I think public educations failure is an issue for all of us. The Dumbing Down of American Education has been going on since the early 1970's when we started to stagnate.

 

I feel so bad for the kids, whose parents just settle, and don't scream at the top of their lungs.

 

 

I absolutely agree. The point I was making is that "good" schools are also failing, but nobody is realizing it. We need to fix "dropout factories", but we also need to fix "good schools", the ones nobody ever thinks have anything wrong.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

I absolutely agree. The point I was making is that "good" schools are also failing, but nobody is realizing it. We need to fix "dropout factories", but we also need to fix "good schools", the ones nobody ever thinks have anything wrong.

 

The bar is now so low in public school that to be "good" they are, mostly, still just mediocre. This is what troubles me, that our idea of "good" is really so terrible.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

My kids are in P.S. Why don't I stand up and do something about it instead of teaching them in secret at home? I am going to try not to ramble here :)

First, everybody has a very different idea of what constitutes a good education. I consider classical model the best. I can tell you that if you tried to rally PS parents to start implementing copywork, memorization and narration (my kids are young) into PS, those same parents will throw rocks at you. In my experience parents think modern/progressive approaches, for the lack of a better work, are needed. Everybody seems to be rushing their kids into Waldorf style schools because it's trendy. What I am trying to say is I can line up bunch of P.S. parents to implement some idea that came out of somebody's PH.D. study (maybe how it's better to smell roses before doing word problems :) ), but I doubt in this area I can rally a single person for a WTM style educatio. So, I send my kids to P.S. and I teach them at home quitely what I consider to be needed.

This relates to another observation. Everybody talks about good schools and bad schools. I watched Waiting for Superman. Problems talked about in the movie are real, but they apply to only a segment of our educational system. Yet not all is well in so called good schools either. My kids go to what is considered a wonderful school. Name it, organic garden where kids get to plant and grow vegetables, art docent program, classical music, school grounds with acres of green land surrounded by mountains. And the smartboards everywhere. It's marvelous. They spend $17K per child a year. We don't even pay for field trips. I am not kidding you. It's a public school. Yet, their choice of reading material I find lacking. They are teaching words "like", "play" as sight words. They apparently don't teach grammar separately, but imbed it into language arts, which for me implies it's poorly thaught. Reading is all based on some graded level books specifically written for schools. History? Yes, they teach something called social studies, but I can't figure out exactly how they structure it. Math is O.K. You get the point. It's not what I would consider high standards. Yet, all the parents are so happy with the school. They think their kids are getting the best education. Now, how do you rally these people for something more meaningful, like MCT maybe? Not a chance.

 

 

This is exactly how it is where I live. After I forced my dh read TWTM, he suggested I run for the school board and try to get our local school system to teach in the classical method. (He really thought the kids needed to go to school.) He never talked to other parents to see just how content they are with the status quo. I, on the other hand, have talked to many parents, who rave about the schools, but can't actually tell me what their kids are learning in math or the supposed social studies. I had one parent (she is head of the PTO and her husband is a fellow Cub Scout leader in our pack) ask me why I homeschool since the schools are so "great". I said there are many reasons, but I was concerned about the lack of information that we received about the school's academic program. I told her that I had no idea what my 1st grader had been doing all day, and that when I asked to see the curricula, I was given the run around by the principal and the teacher. She agreed with me that she had no idea what her 3 kids were actually learning, but she just assumed they would do fine because our school system gets good test scores. And she was perfectly fine with this assumption. She acted like it's the school's responsibility to make sure her kids learn what they need to know, not hers. If they don't see the system as broken, they're not going to want to fix it.

[Roadrunner]

This is exactly how it is where I live. After I forced my dh read TWTM, he suggested I run for the school board and try to get our local school system to teach in the classical method. (He really thought the kids needed to go to school.) He never talked to other parents to see just how content they are with the status quo. I, on the other hand, have talked to many parents, who rave about the schools, but can't actually tell me what their kids are learning in math or the supposed social studies. I had one parent (she is head of the PTO and her husband is a fellow Cub Scout leader in our pack) ask me why I homeschool since the schools are so "great". I said there are many reasons, but I was concerned about the lack of information that we received about the school's academic program. I told her that I had no idea what my 1st grader had been doing all day, and that when I asked to see the curricula, I was given the run around by the principal and the teacher. She agreed with me that she had no idea what her 3 kids were actually learning, but she just assumed they would do fine because our school system gets good test scores. And she was perfectly fine with this assumption. She acted like it's the school's responsibility to make sure her kids learn what they need to know, not hers. If they don't see the system as broken, they're not going to want to fix it.

 

Run for a school board? :lol: By the time you manage to change anything, your kids will be in college.

We send our kids to PS for several reason. The biggest reason is that we want them to become part of a community. I don't mean socialization (they need kids their age to play). We are a first generation immigrant family, so we would like the kids to get to know the neighbors well and have a sense of who they are, not immigrants, but americans. We plan on kipping them in elementary school since homework is minimal and we can get what we need to get done at home. We may eventually pull them out of school when they hit middle school years. I am taking this one year at a time.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Run for a school board? :lol: By the time you manage to change anything, your kids will be in college.

 

 

There is a parent in my school who worked with the school system for 12 years with her oldest child and nothing changed. She was trying to do the same with her youngest, and nothing changed. She pulled him, brought him to me, and the chnage in him from just one year is miraculous.

 

School boards are notoriously clueless. I have another student whose father is a school board member, and she says he has no idea what is going on. I have tried to enlighten him, but he insists things are not the way we say they are.

[yucabird]

Run for a school board? :lol: By the time you manage to change anything, your kids will be in college.

 

 

So? That doesn't mean one shouldn't try to change the system.

[Roadrunner]

So? That doesn't mean one shouldn't try to change the system.

 

Yes, but I don't know how. I think if you believe you can get something accomplished, it's the noble thing to do. I still think you need a broader support of the community to achieve results. That requires people agreeing with you. I know it's hopeless where I am because nobody around here sees the problem. You could probably get a consensus if you live near a "dropout factory" and get the community to work with you. I admire people who have given so much to the cause of education.

[Parrothead]

I don't think we can change the system as the system stands. Parents (and citizens in general since parents aren't the only ones paying property tax for schools) don't have much recourse. If schooling were a business in the sense of competitive with the ability of parents to say which school their tax money goes to we might start to see some change.

 

Yes, we'd have everything from the Neiman Marcus of schools to the Walmart of schools, but I think it would be better than what we have now. Even Walmart can go out of business if their customer base becomes dissatisfied enough.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have carefully considered the possibility that by keeping my family out of the public schools I might be short changing the school system--depriving them of a bright kid with involved parents. I actually think that that is a fair criticism, not that we are so great, but we ARE the type to get involved and volunteer.

 

However, here is what one of my best friend's children experienced in grade school. K was OK except that she got teased for being big and husky starting that year, and AFAIK it never stopped. It happens on the playground, where there is minimal supervision, none of it from teachers. In first grade, about 3 weeks into the school year, when it was too late to request of change of classroom, the teacher left because he got offered a 4th grade job, his preference. Since he had bought all his own manipulatives and decorations, he took them with him. The school could not find another teacher. The kids were left with a series of substitutes in a classroom with no decorations or supplies. Finally the school settled on a 'permanent substitute' for the rest of the semester and part of the second one. It was a woman with an emergency teaching credential but only a degree in public relations. She knew next to nothing about teaching math or reading, the main tasks of first grade. My friend started to volunteer for two full days per week. Basically her daughter missed most of first grade.

 

Things went OK for a while after that in the classroom, though kind of jungley on the playground.

 

The fourth grade teacher told her that he doesn't accept parent volunteers at all. Not in the classroom, not to do office work. He didn't want them on site. That was his prerogative, so suddenly she had no more participation in knowing what went on with her DD. That was the year that she ended up teaching her DD cursive writing over the summer because the school 'didn't get to it'. There was considerable question about the subject area work that year as well, but it wasn't tested so it 'didn't matter'.

 

This all sounded pretty bad to me.

 

There were other stories in the paper, too. Kids getting bullied on the playground, and the administration saying to parents, "Well, I can't follow him around and keep him safe," as if keeping little children safe is a ridiculous expectation of a school. :glare: The entire school except kindergarten kids goes on the playground together, so the mighty fifth graders rule. It's tough on the first graders, for sure, especially the boys, with little supervision. And then the one about how one year in October, with the school year well underway, the kids were all shuffled around and former 2nd grade teachers were assigned to start teaching a 2/3 combo, with just a weekend's notice. No time to prepare for a very different type and level of instruction.

 

But my friend thinks that the elementary school is really, really good, but the middle school is just terrible. I shudder to think. At the high school level, unless you're in the brainiac track (mostly honors and AP), you don't fulfil the requirements to get into the local state colleges. That means that only about 20% of the students EVEN TAKE THE RIGHT CLASSES to qualify.

 

The bottom line is that I have no respect at all for my public school district. They don't make their decisions in the best interests of the students on any level. I would no more entrust my child to them than fly. They don't care about her or her education, and I do. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, and there are far worse districts and schools in my own city.

 

So I decided a long time ago that I would homeschool my daughter, that she would NEVER attend a school in our district, and that I would volunteer in a public school once I was done homeschooling. So that's what I do. I found a school in a tough neighborhood where the faculty DOES care about the children, and I started a 5th grade girls' group there, called the Courage Club. We read hard books, we learn hard words, we are not afraid to say we don't understand something, we are not afraid to try to learn something new. That's why we say we have courage. We read and discuss hard-ish books that are really entertaining, and a little poetry and oratory as well. We do some novel crafts from time to time. And we review math around state testing time as well. This is SO FUN, and it's genuinely good for the kids. I just started this last year. At the end of the school year I was asked to speak to all the graduating 5th graders, so I told them about staying with the toughest math, and asking for help, and taking tests seriously, and preparing and working hard even if you don't see how it will help you because it probably will, and watching examples of good character and leadership to learn how to be that way yourself. I kept my word that I would help, and I will continue to do so. But not at my DD's expense.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Carol in Cal.

[Roadrunner]

I have carefully considered the possibility that by keeping my family out of the public schools I might be short changing the school system--depriving them of a bright kid with involved parents. I actually think that that is a fair criticism, not that we are so great, but we ARE the type to get involved and volunteer.

 

However, here is what one of my best friend's children experienced in grade school. K was OK except that she got teased for being big and husky starting that year, and AFAIK it never stopped. It happens on the playground, where there is minimal supervision, none of it from teachers. In first grade, about 3 weeks into the school year, when it was too late to request of change of classroom, the teacher left because he got offered a 4th grade job, his preference. Since he had bought all his own manipulatives and decorations, he took them with him. The school could not find another teacher. The kids were left with a series of substitutes in a classroom with no decorations or supplies. Finally the school settled on a 'permanent substitute' for the rest of the semester and part of the second one. It was a woman with an emergency teaching credential but only a degree in public relations. She knew next to nothing about teaching math or reading, the main tasks of first grade. My friend started to volunteer for two full days per week. Basically her daughter missed most of first grade.

 

Things went OK for a while after that in the classroom, though kind of jungley on the playground.

 

The fourth grade teacher told her that he doesn't accept parent volunteers at all. Not in the classroom, not to do office work. He didn't want them on site. That was his prerogative, so suddenly she had no more participation in knowing what went on with her DD. That was the year that she ended up teaching her DD cursive writing over the summer because the school 'didn't get to it'. There was considerable question about the subject area work that year as well, but it wasn't tested so it 'didn't matter'.

 

This all sounded pretty bad to me.

 

There were other stories in the paper, too. Kids getting bullied on the playground, and the administration saying to parents, "Well, I can't follow him around and keep him safe," as if keeping little children safe is a ridiculous expectation of a school. :glare: The entire school except kindergarten kids goes on the playground together, so the mighty fifth graders rule. It's tough on the first graders, for sure, especially the boys, with little supervision. And then the one about how one year in October, with the school year well underway, the kids were all shuffled around and former 2nd grade teachers were assigned to start teaching a 2/3 combo, with just a weekend's notice. No time to prepare for a very different type and level of instruction.

 

But she thinks that the elementary school is really, really good, but the middle school is just terrible. I shudder to think. At the high school level, unless you're in the brainiac track (mostly honors and AP), you don't fulfil the requirements to get into the local state colleges. That means that only about 20% of the students EVEN TAKE THE RIGHT CLASSES to qualify.

 

The bottom line is that I have no respect at all for my public school district. They don't make their decisions in the best interests of the students on any level. I would no more entrust my child to them than fly. They don't care about her or her education, and I do. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, and there are far worse districts and schools in my own city.

 

Wowl! And Silicon Valley has some of the highest ranking schools.

[Carol in Cal.]

Wowl! And Silicon Valley has some of the highest ranking schools.

 

I'm not in one of the very high ranking districts like Cupertino or Palo Alto. I'm in one that is 'medium'.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that the main difference between homeschoolers AS A GROUP and public schoolers AS A GROUP is that homeschoolers always think they have a choice, and public schoolers generally don't. They think they are stuck with whatever their district dishes out. I know there are exceptions, but the averages have got to be very different.

[TracieT]

I have carefully considered the possibility that by keeping my family out of the public schools I might be short changing the school system--depriving them of a bright kid with involved parents. I actually think that that is a fair criticism, not that we are so great, but we ARE the type to get involved and volunteer.

 

However, here is what one of my best friend's children experienced in grade school. K was OK except that she got teased for being big and husky starting that year, and AFAIK it never stopped. It happens on the playground, where there is minimal supervision, none of it from teachers. In first grade, about 3 weeks into the school year, when it was too late to request of change of classroom, the teacher left because he got offered a 4th grade job, his preference. Since he had bought all his own manipulatives and decorations, he took them with him. The school could not find another teacher. The kids were left with a series of substitutes in a classroom with no decorations or supplies. Finally the school settled on a 'permanent substitute' for the rest of the semester and part of the second one. It was a woman with an emergency teaching credential but only a degree in public relations. She knew next to nothing about teaching math or reading, the main tasks of first grade. My friend started to volunteer for two full days per week. Basically her daughter missed most of first grade.

 

Things went OK for a while after that in the classroom, though kind of jungley on the playground.

 

The fourth grade teacher told her that he doesn't accept parent volunteers at all. Not in the classroom, not to do office work. He didn't want them on site. That was his prerogative, so suddenly she had no more participation in knowing what went on with her DD. That was the year that she ended up teaching her DD cursive writing over the summer because the school 'didn't get to it'. There was considerable question about the subject area work that year as well, but it wasn't tested so it 'didn't matter'.

 

This all sounded pretty bad to me.

 

There were other stories in the paper, too. Kids getting bullied on the playground, and the administration saying to parents, "Well, I can't follow him around and keep him safe," as if keeping little children safe is a ridiculous expectation of a school. :glare: The entire school except kindergarten kids goes on the playground together, so the mighty fifth graders rule. It's tough on the first graders, for sure, especially the boys, with little supervision. And then the one about how one year in October, with the school year well underway, the kids were all shuffled around and former 2nd grade teachers were assigned to start teaching a 2/3 combo, with just a weekend's notice. No time to prepare for a very different type and level of instruction.

 

But my friend thinks that the elementary school is really, really good, but the middle school is just terrible. I shudder to think. At the high school level, unless you're in the brainiac track (mostly honors and AP), you don't fulfil the requirements to get into the local state colleges. That means that only about 20% of the students EVEN TAKE THE RIGHT CLASSES to qualify.

 

The bottom line is that I have no respect at all for my public school district. They don't make their decisions in the best interests of the students on any level. I would no more entrust my child to them than fly. They don't care about her or her education, and I do. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood, and there are far worse districts and schools in my own city.

 

So I decided a long time ago that I would homeschool my daughter, that she would NEVER attend a school in our district, and that I would volunteer in a public school once I was done homeschooling. So that's what I do. I found a school in a tough neighborhood where the faculty DOES care about the children, and I started a 5th grade girls' group there, called the Courage Club. We read hard books, we learn hard words, we are not afraid to say we don't understand something, we are not afraid to try to learn something new. That's why we say we have courage. We read and discuss hard-ish books that are really entertaining, and a little poetry and oratory as well. We do some novel crafts from time to time. And we review math around state testing time as well. This is SO FUN, and it's genuinely good for the kids. I just started this last year. At the end of the school year I was asked to speak to all the graduating 5th graders, so I told them about staying with the toughest math, and asking for help, and taking tests seriously, and preparing and working hard even if you don't see how it will help you because it probably will, and watching examples of good character and leadership to learn how to be that way yourself. I kept my word that I would help, and I will continue to do so. But not at my DD's expense.

 

Good for you! And beautifully stated! Your Courage Club sounds amazing!

 

And your last lines are exactly what I've tried to get across to a couple of people in various situations. (like being told if I should put my kids in public school to be a light...we are Christians...to other kids) I am willing to help, but not at my childs' expense.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Run for a school board? :lol: By the time you manage to change anything, your kids will be in college.

We send our kids to PS for several reason. The biggest reason is that we want them to become part of a community. I don't mean socialization (they need kids their age to play). We are a first generation immigrant family, so we would like the kids to get to know the neighbors well and have a sense of who they are, not immigrants, but americans. We plan on kipping them in elementary school since homework is minimal and we can get what we need to get done at home. We may eventually pull them out of school when they hit middle school years. I am taking this one year at a time.

 

I laughed like a hyena when he suggested that! Maybe someday when I'm not trying to get my own kids to learn something, I may try to run for school board. I doubt anyone would vote for me! :tongue_smilie:

[Impish]

So? That doesn't mean one shouldn't try to change the system.

I guess I'm really self centred.

 

Personally, I can't see pouring in the blood, sweat, tears and time that would be required to effect change in a school board while knowing that my children wouldn't benefit.

 

My time is better spent on my kids, than pouring into something that won't help them at all.