lakotajm Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Please help decide a question: If a field of corn was grown using chemical fertilizer, but no/few other similar interventions, which term would you consider that practice an example/component of? 1) organic 2) sustainable 3) Integrated Pest Management 4) other, please explain Are these terms just different ways to say the same thing? If you saw a sign advertising the corn at a Farmer's Market, which adjective would you feel should be used on that sign to describe the corn? Would you feel led on if one of the other (and which one(s), please explain) was used to describe it? Lakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Organic - do not involve modern synthetic inputs such as synthetic pesticides and chemical fertilizers, do not contain genetically modified organisms, and are not processed using irradiation, industrial solvents, or chemical food additives. Sustainability is a system of growing food so resources remain diverse and productive over time. Integrated pest management might be sustainable but isn't organic as it does use synthetic pesticides at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Organic is a very specific term to use in advertising, and I believe that it can only be used if certain conditions were met. I wouldn't use it if I hadn't met those conditions. I don't think that the use of chemical fertilizers really falls under the sustainable umbrella, although it may be more so than other practices. (Round-Up Ready corn plus Round-Up, etc) Integrated Pest Management reminds me of the people you'd call in with a roach infestation. Plus, I consider fertilizing and treating for insects two different areas of focus. If it was grown without insecticides, I'd say that. If it was grown with an organic alternative like bt, I'd say that. Otherwise I'd just call it fresh sweet corn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Pesticide-Free. Assuming it is. Chemical fertilizers are not sustainable imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakotajm Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think I am starting to see where IPM relates only to pesticides. And clearly chemical anything cannot be organic. Sustainable? What do you think? Fresh Sweet Corn definitely avoids all confusion. Would you feel confused if a farmer called this corn "sustainably raised" and then in conversing with them, they mentioned the chemical fertilizer? Lakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You might do better side-stepping all of those and just say: Locally Grown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You might do better side-stepping all of those and just say: Locally Grown :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think I am starting to see where IPM relates only to pesticides. And clearly chemical anything cannot be organic. Sustainable? What do you think? Fresh Sweet Corn definitely avoids all confusion. Would you feel confused if a farmer called this corn "sustainably raised" and then in conversing with them, they mentioned the chemical fertilizer?Lakota Personally, if I don't see "Organic" on a label, I just assume chemical fertilizer and/or pesticides have been used. "Locally Grown" is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Other 1) organic - organic doesn't use chemical fertilizers 2) sustainable- Chemical fertilizers are not sustainable. they are mostly made out of crude oil, which is not sustainable 3) Integrated Pest Management- Chemical fertilizers don't do anything for pests. That would be pesticides for insects or herbicides for plants, something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The produce could properly be called "no spay" or "pesticide-free." These are the common terms used at Farmer's Markets here, and it is understood that means the growers most likely use chemical fertilizers. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Use of chemical fertilizer is definitely NOT organic and it is actually against the law to label food "organic" that does not meet the USDA guidelines. From the USDA-FDA: The USDA now uses private and state agencies to inspect and certify food companies that market organic foods. Small farmers with less than $5,000 in organic sales, such as those selling at small farmers’ markets, are exempt from the certification process but they still must be truthful in their label claims and comply with the new government standards. Individuals or companies who sell or label a product as organic when they know it does not meet USDA standards, can be fined up to $10,000 for each violation. Additionally, a grower must meet the organic standards for something like 7 years before they can label their product organic (i.e. the field/orchard etc. has to be farmed using organic practices for that many years but cannot be labeled organic until ~7 years* has passed with out using chemicals, etc. on that field). I am not sure of the length of time, I am going on memory from when my aunt and uncle were working on getting their apple orchard certified organic. I don't really think the other two descriptors are very accurate either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Other. Around here, fruits and vegetables grown with chemical fertilizers are usually labeled "conventional, no spray," typically meaning the farmers use chemical fertilizers but do not spray pesticides. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think I am starting to see where IPM relates only to pesticides. And clearly chemical anything cannot be organic. Sustainable? What do you think? Fresh Sweet Corn definitely avoids all confusion. Would you feel confused if a farmer called this corn "sustainably raised" and then in conversing with them, they mentioned the chemical fertilizer?Lakota If they said "organic" they would be lying. If they said sustainable I think they would be bending the truth. If they said they were using IPM I don't know how that would relate to chemical fertilizer use. IMP would make me think the food might be spayed with pesticides. The Fertilizer is another issue. As I said before "no-spray" or "pesticide-free" is understood (by me) to mean conventional chemical fertilizers were used, but no pesticides were used. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Please help decide a question: If a field of corn was grown using chemical fertilizer, but no/few other similar interventions, which term would you consider that practice an example/component of? 1) organic 2) sustainable 3) Integrated Pest Management 4) other, please explain Are these terms just different ways to say the same thing? If you saw a sign advertising the corn at a Farmer's Market, which adjective would you feel should be used on that sign to describe the corn? Would you feel led on if one of the other (and which one(s), please explain) was used to describe it? Lakota None. It's not organic. He used chemical fertilizer. It's not sustainable, in and of itself. Sustainable is a system not an single instance of spraying a single crop with that fertilizer. It's not IPM, the fertilizer isn't a PM protocol. If you are trying to sell this corn and want to gimmick the signage, you can use any of those terms, but they wouldn't be true, and if you used the term organic, you could be in for fines depending on your area. Then you have the issue of your phrase "no/few other similar interventions." Well, if you've applied chemical fertilizer, and there are ANY (which includes a "few") other similar interventions, then those things could include any pesticide, herbicide, fungicide, heck even Round-Up is a "similar intervention." What you have in your example is commonly grown corn. Just call it "Fresh Corn." That's an honest description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) I think I am starting to see where IPM relates only to pesticides. And clearly chemical anything cannot be organic. Sustainable? What do you think? Fresh Sweet Corn definitely avoids all confusion. Would you feel confused if a farmer called this corn "sustainably raised" and then in conversing with them, they mentioned the chemical fertilizer?Lakota Quite bluntly, I think I'd laugh and walk away. I'd think 2 things: 1) they really didn't know what the heck they were talking about because 2) they are probably backyard gardeners trying to posture as commercial farmers. There's nothing wrong with backyard gardening and selling at a Farmer's Market. We have plenty of people at our markets who do that. But, I think a person shouldn't try to be something they're not at a market. If you're not a commercial farmer, don't try to act like one. No matter what you are, sell your produce for what it is. When you try to gimmick it up, people can tell. You want to know what corn goes fastest at every market I've ever attended? Backyard garden corn sold by kids with handwritten signs. Edited July 16, 2011 by Audrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 None of those. I think "locally grown" is the best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 None of the above. Locally raised, pesticide free- I would guess they just didn't understand the terms, seems common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Other 1) organic - organic doesn't use chemical fertilizers 2) sustainable- Chemical fertilizers are not sustainable. they are mostly made out of crude oil, which is not sustainable 3) Integrated Pest Management- Chemical fertilizers don't do anything for pests. That would be pesticides for insects or herbicides for plants, something completely different. My thought exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Spray-free or pesticide-free would be the most honest description, as used at markets here. I will certainly buy spray free in preference to conventional, as it is usually priced less than organic and all organic is beyond our budget. Organic would be dishonest- there are strict parameters around being able to use that term, for good reason- and its not sustainable- but the integrated pest management is irrelevant as it is fertilizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Another factor with corn is that it could not be raised from GMO seeds and be labelled organic. Most seed corn is probably GMO now so that is something to consider if you are trying to transition to organic practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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