A contraction in community college options?

[Brigid in NC]

Hi everyone -

I'm curious if you are seeing changes in the the dual enrollment/community college options in your area. It is looking like dual enrollment may be eliminated altogether in North Carolina beginning next spring. The latest information is that students in my area of NC won't have the option to take CC classes, even if we wish to pay for them.

 

Is this happening in other areas of the country? It's such a disappointment, because CC classes have been an important part of the class "mix" for us in high school -- especially in 11th and 12th. My younger ds is a rising senior, so it won't affect him all that much. But it removes a valuable option for others who will be homeschooling in the high school years.

 

How are CC options changing in other states/regions? Any alternate suggestions for homeschoolers who want the the transcript and transferability that local CCs offer?

 

Thanks!

Edited July 15, 2011 by Brigid in NC

[Elizabeth in WA]

They keep talking about adding a partial tuition fee for the Running Start option here, presently high school students only pay the fees (usually lab associated) and books. I don;t think they have yet, however. I am reconsidering how much Running Start to use for different reasons; UW, which my oldest is looking at, uses AP scores for placement into honors sections of the foundational courses for majors, and I think that could be more advantageous, even if more expensive since they would spend more time at UW, than actually placing out, so we may just use community college for general ed and higher math if they wouldn't want to take those as honors courses anyway. Of course, as they get closer, I will see how many other schools have the same policy, but it does seem increasingly common.

[LanaTron]

Not around here. As a matter of fact, they just built a building in our town specifically for the high schoolers to take dual-credit courses. I'm not sure who owns the building--the cc or the school district--but it's within walking distance from the high school, and no where near the cc.

[Lori D.]

We've always had to pay to do dual enrollment here -- tuition alone is about $250 per class, which limits our family to just 1 class per semester. However, we do have a special technical training program run through the public high schools (and open to homeschoolers) that allows juniors and seniors to take certain specific technical classes (in emergency services; health care tech; catering; etc.) for dual enrollment for free.

 

What is changing with our state's CCs: our local CC's board is talking of possibly requiring either a high school diploma or a GED before being able to enroll. We haven't heard yet what effect this will have on homeschoolers (or the special tech program for public school students).

 

 

I wonder if some of these changes are due to 2 factors, both of which would cause a large increase in people attending a CC, and thus allowing the CC to become more selective about who they want attending:

 

1. Skyrocketing college costs, leading to many more people going to a CC first and then either trying to get a job with the 2 year CC degree, or then transferring to a 4-year institution to finish up.

 

2. Bad economy, with many jobs requiring degrees just to apply, so people are returning to school to get a degree, get a more current degree, or get a degree in a different field to branch out and be more attractive to employers.

 

 

My hope is that the CC board will really think about WHAT they are trying to accomplish with such a policy. If it is to weed out students with weak academics, then they really need to make a policy about having to pass the CC's (already required) assessment tests with certain scores and perhaps include an assessment of writing skills -- rather than rely on a high school diploma or GED. (We all know the horror stories of students who really can't read or write who graduate because the public school system is broken.)

 

OR, if the CC is wanting to only have older students in their classes, then perhaps they could still offer limited classes for high school students for dual enrollment -- it seems odd to me that the CC would turn away potential tuition money!!

 

 

Our last one is a senior this year and already enrolled and ready to go for a dual-enrollment class, so whatever policy changes are coming they won't change anything for us -- but I do feel for the homeschoolers behind us!

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Brigid in NC]

Our last one is a senior this year and already enrolled and ready to go for a dual-enrollment class, so whatever policy changes are coming they won't change anything for us -- but I do feel for the homeschoolers behind us!

 

Exactly! CC has been just one of many options in high school -- but a very valuable option. I hope that others have the choice.

 

In our area, I think that it has just come down to the legislature pulling the funding for the program. I have always been willing to pay for the classes -- but it appears that the local CC is choosing not to provide that option. :001_unsure:

[Amy in TX]

Around here (Houston), opportunities seem to be expanding. Our community college system has built a new campus 10 minutes from us, is in the process of building another campus 1/2 hour away, and is adding buildings and programs to another nearby campus.

 

I'm happy to see this growth here, with my first dd starting dual enrollment this fall, and three more dc possibly using it in the future!

 

I certainly commiserate with those of you for whom it's becoming more difficult.

[4everHis]

We're not quite there yet but I know there are two cc's that really promote dual-enrollment and one that especially markets to homeschoolers. I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe this is changing. Here is in Michigan.

[BridgeTea]

I've not sent my daughter (she's in 8th) but when I talked to the local CC 3 years ago (planning ahead), homeschoolers were accepted starting at any age as long as they passed a basic keyboarding, math, and reading test. They are limited to taking 3 credit hours per semester, tuition was half price, but there were such limited choices in classes because of the 3 credit hours limit. We would be hard pressed to fit in their prerequisites to even get to a decent science lab or upper level math before high school graduation, and I don't need them to give her Algebra I or Freshman Comp - especially at $350 a pop, plus travel and books. Now, at the time I didn't know all of the questions to ask, but they were inferring that all homeschoolers are placed into those entry level courses. If there is other testing to be done to place her in the classes that would be useful to us at some point, I don't know about it at this time. Finding that out is on my To Do list for this year.

 

From the CC's website it appears the rules for homeschoolers hasn't changed. What has changed is that some of the local highschools can now send students there for dual enrollment. The district I live in is not on the list and I don't use the school for anything, so that's a mute point I suppose.

 

I may use this CC for driver's training as their price is competitive, but I'm not sure they have anything else of value to us. Yes, they just added a 3 week driver's training course. I think they are getting a little desperate for money.

[Ellie]

California restricted dual enrollment some years ago because of budget issues, but it's still up to the individual school as to whether students under 18 will be allowed to either dual-enroll as high school students or enroll as college students. Of course, in California, any student who is 16 or who has completed the second semester of 10th grade can take the California High School Equivalency Exam (CHSPE), which is considered the equivalent of a high school diploma; he is the eligible to enroll in c.c. as a college student, regardless of dual-enrollment policies (although there may still need to be some *discussions* with the admissions office :glare:).

[Sunshine State Sue]

I haven't seen any change in FL. We are very blessed here, and in our county in particular. The just-retired CC president was a visionary and expanded the CC all over the county. Dual enrollment is free in 10th-12th grade, though hs'ers have to pay for books. I was even able to email the dual enrollment coordinator a day before registration opened with ds's classes and she enrolled him on the first day of registration.

[G5052]

I teach at the local community college, and they still welcome dual enrollment students. Homeschooled students still pay the $, but I haven't heard of any restrictions at all. That said, overall they have not expanded the number of sections at all over the last few years and enrollment is way up, so I have heard of families waiting too long to register and not getting in.

[Gwen in VA]

Last year our CC restricted dual-enrolled classes to juniors and seniors, which some homeschoolers are chafing at.

 

Otherwise, we are blessed -- a decent CC close by with a good selection of classes that is a real option for juniors and seniors who are homeschooling. We pay full freight (~$113 or so per credit) but that's cheaper than some online classes, so we aren't complaining!

 

The only improvement I would wish for is that the folks had built labs in the new building that is so near us -- ds needs to drive 40 minutes each way for each science class (lecture and lab) next year. :-(

[mamakim]

They keep talking about adding a partial tuition fee for the Running Start option here, presently high school students only pay the fees (usually lab associated) and books. I don;t think they have yet, however.

 

It's here, Elizabeth. Haven't seen an official notice yet, but in May when my dd was enrolling for her fall courses, her adviser (who we've dealt with for years with our dc) told us that there would be one in fall; they're just hammering out the details.

 

One thing I'm seeing here is an exponentially increasing student population and fewer and fewer courses. The catalog of course offerings are smaller every term. My dc are right on it, getting the first available advising appts each term to be able to register for classes as early as possible, and still so frustrating. DD has been waitlisted for Chem 161 twice and this term would have been waitlist number 24 (about 3 or 4 waitlists get in each term).

[Matryoshka]

Here the funding for dual-enrollment appears to be random based on the whim of the state budget for that year. And even then it often runs out mid-year.

 

This is one reason I'm seriously considering ps high school. I would probably have to pay quite high prices for any outsourced classes - I can't count on dual-enrollment.

[Laura in CA]

I heard (probably on these boards) that there are some CCs near San Diego or LA that recently completely eliminated dual enrollment because of budget cuts. Ours restricts enrollment to 10th, 11th, and 12th graders (although my 9th-grade son was able to get a waiver from the dean to enroll).

 

The very helpful lady in Admissions & Records (she's a gem!) told me the changes afoot are as follows:

 

1. Firmer deadlines on when high-school students have to have submitted their paperwork (in the past they would accept late applications no problem; now it's on a case-by-case basis).

 

2. Concurrent-enrollment students have always (as far as I remember) had a later registration date than "regular" students, but it's still 6-10 weeks before classes actually start; now there is a proposal that, starting Spring 2012, high-school kids at our local CC would have to wait to register until just a few days before classes start. From reading posts on this board from Ronette and others in Southern California (we're in Northern CA), I see that some CCs down south already had this policy last year.

 

The quality of our local CC is not stellar; an AP history teacher at a local high school who also teaches homeschoolers on the side claims that the level of our local CC's history classes is below that of the regular high-school classes, and nowhere near AP-level. However, the math and science classes are UC/CSU-transferable, and so I decided to sign my son up for multivariable calculus for this fall. Much to my surprise, the paperwork went through within days and he's all registered; they accepted a Xerox of his AP Calculus score, as his official scores were sent by the College Board to Scotland (long story!) and won't get to our CC until next week. So I wandered around the campus and was very pleasantly surprised by the brand-spanking-new buildings -- a gorgeous library, science center, and classroom building; under construction right now are a science lab building and a sports center, among other things ... very impressive. I'm not sure if we'll take advantage of any of the humanities classes, but his math teacher prides himself on being the toughest teacher at this CC and I'm excited about my son's first math class ever with a real live teacher!

 

Oh, and dual enrollment is still 100% FREE. Just $23 worth of small fees, plus parking permit if we need one (there's a bus my son could take, too). I know they are having massive budget cuts (the office workers are doing 4/10s; deans approve prereq overrides now, as counselors' hours have been cut; etc.). I would be happy to pay the full-price tuition (which rose **40%** this semester to $36/unit). In fact I am probably going to contribute - at the very least - what my son *would have* paid in tuition to their scholarship fund ... it's an absurdly good value (assuming my son does learn a lot!). I have found the workers in Admissions & Records and in Counseling to be so patient and helpful -- quite different from what others have experienced at other CCs, having to educate them on state homeschool laws ...

 

~Laura

Edited July 16, 2011 by Laura in CA

[Jane in NC]

The handwriting was on the wall a few years ago when our CC eliminated free dual enrollment courses in the humanities and social sciences. In our county, one is encouraged to enroll one's student in the Early College High School in order to take advantage of cross disciplinary free tuition at the CC.

 

I do think that parents of middle school students who had planned on eventually enrolling their students in CC courses might want to consider a Plan B.

[Tressa]

It's here, Elizabeth. Haven't seen an official notice yet, but in May when my dd was enrolling for her fall courses, her adviser (who we've dealt with for years with our dc) told us that there would be one in fall; they're just hammering out the details.

 

One thing I'm seeing here is an exponentially increasing student population and fewer and fewer courses. The catalog of course offerings are smaller every term. My dc are right on it, getting the first available advising appts each term to be able to register for classes as early as possible, and still so frustrating. DD has been waitlisted for Chem 161 twice and this term would have been waitlist number 24 (about 3 or 4 waitlists get in each term).

 

My local newspaper reported that dual enrolled students would have to pay 10% tuition plus fees. It is still better than full tuition.

[LanaTron]

Around here (Houston suburbs) the public school kids don't pay anything; homeschoolers pay 1/2 price tuition.

[momofkhm]

Hi everyone -

I'm curious if you are seeing changes in the the dual enrollment/community college options in your area. It is looking like dual enrollment may be eliminated altogether in North Carolina beginning next spring. The latest information is that students in my area of NC won't have the option to take CC classes, even if we wish to pay for them.

 

Have you heard this for sure? All I've heard is rumor. I haven't heard anything from a source that could give me some sort of back up. It's all been "I've heard..."

[Brigid in NC]

Have you heard this for sure? All I've heard is rumor. I haven't heard anything from a source that could give me some sort of back up. It's all been "I've heard..."

 

It came from a Wake Tech guidance advisor. :(

[momofkhm]

It came from a Wake Tech guidance advisor. :(

 

Yeah. I'd say that's a pretty good back-up. :-(

 

My oldest is finally old enough and has space in her schedule this fall. I wonder if it's worth pursuing for one semester?

[Brigid in NC]

My oldest is finally old enough and has space in her schedule this fall. I wonder if it's worth pursuing for one semester?

 

Nothing is set in stone. I've gotten misinformation/incomplete information from WT personnel before. I think we all should continue to pursue dual enrollment. From what I understand, CCs across the state are handling the legislative changes differently. WT has always seemed to take the narrow road. Perhaps the option to pay for classes will open up. Not the best choice -- but at least some choice. Good luck! :)

[Guest Elva]

I found our CC very useful last year albeit expensive. By our HS law we can only take 2 courses per semester. I haven't heard of any changes here but do see where more and more public schoolers are choosing CC as a way to avoid high costs of 1st year of college which may affect its future use for HS.

[WTMindy]

They keep talking about adding a partial tuition fee for the Running Start option here, presently high school students only pay the fees (usually lab associated) and books. I don;t think they have yet, however.

 

They are adding a fee this year at some of the WA schools-RS students pay 10% of tuition, unless they are free and reduced lunch students.

[mcconnellboys]

There has been talk of it here, too....

[8filltheheart]

We are not experiencing any contraction in classes and dual- enrolled students pay full price tuition.

 

I'm probably going to be poking a stick at a hornet's nest, but I wish I had known this more concretely yrs ago.

 

I want to share an experience I had on Friday with my 19 yos at our CC's SOAR program (freshman student orientation). This is a huge CC system (20,000+ students and huge feeder into nationally ranked state universities w/which there are reciprocity agreements.)

 

The orientation speakers were talking about the placement tests and how most of the students were going to place into remedial math or remedial English. They went on to talk at great length about the importance of taking those remedial courses and the number of free tutoring hrs available to ensure success in them. They repeatedly told students not to attempt enrolling in classes above the remedial courses.

 

The orientation really put into perspective what I have witnessed in our CC experience......classes that are not the equivalence in demands of equivalent university level courses. When you have typical freshman level classes considered inaccessible to the vast majority of your student body, it does reflect on the caliber of the students attending.

 

A couple of weeks ago I posted a thread about my dd and her English course at the CC. She is a very avg student. I expected her to make a B b/c I consider her a C student. She is making a 100% avg. The teacher thinks her writing is outstanding and one of the best students she has ever had. I knew that said a lot, but after the SOAR experience, it is more revealing. (ETA: fwiw, this course is not a remedial course but 1st semester English comp)

 

If you have students at your CC and are very happy, please don't take this personally. It is not personal. It is simply my honest assessment of what I witnessed on this CC campus which confirms our personal experience with the courses my kids have taken in different states. I did not have this bigger picture when I was simply going to the campus and enrolling them in a single or couple of courses. This student orientation was eye-opening to say the least.

 

I think using CC courses to help teach where we are incapable is a great option. But I think that knowing the student body and the possibility that the course is not on par of an equivalent course at the unversity level is information to consider.

 

FWIW, our ds will be going to the CC for the next yr. It is going to meet his needs for now. So, I am not trying to trash the CC system. But, having attended SOAR at the university level and now at the CC, the student body is not the same so neither is the emphasis or focus of the 2.

Edited July 18, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart

[Elizabeth in WA]

They are adding a fee this year at some of the WA schools-RS students pay 10% of tuition, unless they are free and reduced lunch students.

 

10% tuition remains a really good deal, in my opinion. Especially considering how much UW tuition is going up this fall. I am curious, however, about how crowded the classes are and what the quality of the offerings is.

[creekland]

We are not experiencing any contraction in classes and dual- enrolled students pay full price tuition.

 

 

 

This is the case here too. We pay $220 per credit hour (meaning $660 for a 3 credit course). Our cc is only open to juniors or seniors in high school who pass the college level entrance exam for all courses (not just in the course they wish to take).

 

We don't have all that many homeschoolers at our cc. The few there do well according to one prof.

 

I don't consider the classes equivalent to the same level as a "good" four year college or U. They may be similar to lower level 4 year schools. Oldest told me if he had taken English 101 at his 4 year school he'd have had to do a lot more work than he had to do at our cc. Since he doesn't particularly care for English, he's happy he took it at the cc. Meanwhile, I wonder if we should have accepted the credits.

 

BUT, we'll continue to use cc in order to get some academic letters of recommendation and outside confirmation of grades. AP tests are hard to find in our area.

[Tammyla]

We've always had to pay for classes here too.