butterflymommy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I've read this on message boards and from curriculum suppliers-- that the Singapore line (which a love) is a grade ahead of the US. So 1A/1B is equivalent to 2nd grade in a typical US public school. Is this true? My 7 year old who will be 8 in sept has just finished 1B, and we're doing the Extra Practice 1 book over the summer. So she will be starting 2A in what would be 3rd grade. She struggles with math but is well above grade level in reading/ spelling. I'm just trying to gauge how far "behind" she is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I don't see how they can be 'behind' when they use them at grade level in California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) No, they are on grade level here in CA in terms of scope and sequence. Now, the Singapore program does a much better and deeper job of teaching topics than other public school approved programs that meet the scope and sequence requirements, and many alternative home-schooling options are "behind" the CA math standards, so in comparison Singapore is "ahead" of many programs used at home. So the answer depends on your standard of measure. ETA: I missed the last sentence of your post and would not want to feed your possible anxiety or sense of concern about being "behind." Singapore is a great program. Meet your daughter where she is and know she I'd probably on target with the S&S of most of the country being right where she is, and what she is learning will be deeper than most of the alternatives. Bill Edited July 2, 2011 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 FYI, for a couple years my son was one book 'behind' with Singapore. He just didn't have the stamina to do more than the front of one page for an exercise. I just could not get him to do more. I decided not to worry about it. Somehow, between 4th and 5th grade he zoomed ahead of where he was and caught up. Last year, 5th grade, he did both 5a and 5b and two LOF books. So, I wouldn't think twice or worry in any way about being a book 'behind'. Better to just take your time and make sure things are understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 2A as a third grader would put her in line for prealgebra in 8th grade. I don't see this as a major problem for someone who doesn't love/struggles with math. I'd rather be a year "behind" with good understanding of the material than "on level" and struggling. Things may also change as your daughter matures, sometimes kids reach a stage where everything just seems to click and she might advance faster than she has before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The topics aren't as much as the presentation, especially if you count the IP, which often is APPLYING the topics at a level that isn't expected for several grades above-sometimes MUCH above. I wouldn't be particularly worried about your 2nd grader not being "on grade level" if they're using 1A/1B-there may be topics they haven't had yet on a state test, but there will also be skills they have at a higher level than the the test really expects at their grade level. And I wouldn't be too worried about sending a child on to Algebra 1 in 8th grade if they've gotten through Singapore 6A/6b by the end of 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 No, they aren't "ahead". (The people who argue that they are base it on the fact that Singapore school year begins in January -- but their age cut-off is at the beginning of their school year, so it's exactly the same as our school years beginning in Aug/Sep with cut-offs right around the time school starts. Their first graders are 6y-6y11m just like ours.) That said, I do NOT want you to stress about her being "behind". Do your best. Work consistently. Meet her where she is. Build a strong foundation. ... If you can get a little more than 1 school year of work done each year for a couple of years, you could get her back to her grade level. But if she's doing well in work that's 1 year behind, you will likely find that she'll still *test* as well or better than her grade peers (many of whom are being promoted through books without the depth of understanding you will be working toward one-on-one). The important thing is gaining a thorough understanding of the material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeemama Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Maybe it depends on the state...I taught second grade in Massachusetts for 7 years and the levels 1B and 2A seem to line up close to the curriculum we used. Also comparing where my daughter was in the fall of third grade when I pulled her from private school, she tested into 2B and is a good student. At any of the early levels, Singapore mental math material is certainly above anything I ever saw in public or private elementary schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) ETA: I missed the last sentence of your post and would not want to feed your possible anxiety or sense of concern about being "behind." Singapore is a great program. Meet your daughter where she is and know she I'd probably on target with the S&S of most of the country being right where she is, and what she is learning will be deeper than most of the alternatives. Bill :iagree: Besides, she's not behind, because this isn't a race. I know how you feel, though. :grouphug: I need to keep repeating that to *myself.* I've had many anxious moments because older DD is technically a rising 3rd grader, but she's still working in a "2nd grade" math book. I'm getting over it. :tongue_smilie: Edited July 3, 2011 by shinyhappypeople Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nov05mama Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 On the website itself, it shows that an 'at level' or 'average' student would likely be in the middle of 2 books, so an average second grader would be in 1B and 2A, whereas a slightly more advanced second grader would be in 2A and 2B. So even basing it on that, I wouldn't think they are ahead as far as the standards go....should be right on track :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I don't use Singapore, but I just wanted to give you some support. The best thing about homeschooling for the children is that you can go at their pace! If she is "a year behind" in math now and she is doing her best and being challenged, I honestly don't see how that matters. In my opinion, there will be a time where things will just really start to click with her and she will be able to "catch up." As long as she is doing her best and working diligently, I don't see a problem with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 IMO, it's not easy to compare Singapore to the grade levels of most other programs, particularly the scope and sequence of a school system. It has always felt like we were slightly ahead in some ways, right on in others, and *maybe* behind (in what actual concepts are being introduced, not HOW concepts are taught) in others. So where does that leave us? Continuing on at the pace of each child, aiming to have each child in 4th grade start on 4A at some point in that school year (for example) and not worry about what the schools are doing. It's just different! If you intend to put your children in school at some point soon, then I can see having slightly more interest in what your local school district covers. We, however, homeschool through elementary and middle school at least so that's where I'm coming from. It all evens out by the time they reach pre-Algebra. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Calvin was acing the Texas state TAKS a grade or two higher than the number on the front of the Singapore books. I'm told that Texas is not famous for its academic standards though. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahRah Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I think it depends on the school district and state standards? In MO, if I look at the scope and sequence for second grade for math, it is almost up to the end of 2A - the scope and sequence here for math does not include any introduction to multiplication and division by the end of second grade and 2A makes that introduction in the last chapter and adding/subtracting with renaming doesn't go into the hundreds until third grade. Then, looking at the third grade scope & sequence, it's 2B for the most part - so, here by the end of third grade, a child learns (or should learn) what they'd learn through 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I've compared the CA state math standards with the Singapore S&S and for the *MAJOR* topics, SM does run ahead of the CA standards by the mid-elementary grades. I've posted examples referencing specific standards before & am not going to bother going through the exercise again. Do a search on the forum and you should be able to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom4peace Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Given that a number of folks (like us) find their children can move directly from Singapore 6B to algebra (we used Jacob's), I'd say it is ahead. If you're using the Challenging Word Problems, it's WAY ahead. Those are fantastic supplements that really take a child far beyond what any other math program I've seen does. Okay, we're Singapore fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 No, they aren't "ahead". (The people who argue that they are base it on the fact that Singapore school year begins in January -- but their age cut-off is at the beginning of their school year, so it's exactly the same as our school years beginning in Aug/Sep with cut-offs right around the time school starts. Their first graders are 6y-6y11m just like ours.) Actually, many states do have a kindergarten entrance date in December, so on the first day of first grade, children will be 5yr 9m-6yr8m. In Singapore schools, children must turn 7 in the year of first grade entrance (so born in 2004 for admission to Primary 1 in 2011). With a January start day, kids on their first day of first grade will be 6y1m-7y. I'm not sure whether that makes much difference in the end though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 There are only 4 states and the DC which have a cutoff date set Nov 1 or later, and one of those (California) is moving it to Sep 1 in 2014. There are 3 more with an October cutoff, and one of those (Nebraska) is moving to July 31 in 2012. http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/rpt/2011-R-0024.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Thanks ladies-- gauging from what I saw my girls bring home from public and catholic school when they were enrolled, Singapore doesn't seem accelerated (to me). But there is something more "sophisticated" about the presentation that demands deeper thought and understanding. I am not too stressed, she does like Singapore but is not comfortable moving ahead yet, as much as I wish she would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 It depends on what you are basing "ahead" and "behind" on. When we first started homeschooling my kids were in Michigan schools until we moved to Wyoming. When we moved to Wyoming my dd was in 4th grade. The math she was doing at PS here was light years behind what she was doing in Michigan. She learned NOTHING that year (we moved in Oct) When we started homeschooling for her 5th grade year I started her in Singapore 5A. The first little bit was ok, I guess but after that she just looked at me like :001_huh:. So would she have been able to do it if coming from a 4th grade Michigan classroom? Probably, but a 4th grade classroom from Wyoming absolutely not. In Wyoming, they were barely starting what the 4th graders were reviewing from the 3rd grade at the beginning year in Michigan at the end of the year in Wyoming. Does that make sense? So don't worry about "ahead or behind" meet your child where they are now and move forward with both the depth and breadth that they need to succeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 It depends on what you are basing "ahead" and "behind" on. When we first started homeschooling my kids were in Michigan schools until we moved to Wyoming. When we moved to Wyoming my dd was in 4th grade. The math she was doing at PS here was light years behind what she was doing in Michigan. She learned NOTHING that year (we moved in Oct) When we started homeschooling for her 5th grade year I started her in Singapore 5A. The first little bit was ok, I guess but after that she just looked at me like :001_huh:. So would she have been able to do it if coming from a 4th grade Michigan classroom? Probably, but a 4th grade classroom from Wyoming absolutely not. In Wyoming, they were barely starting what the 4th graders were reviewing from the 3rd grade at the beginning year in Michigan at the end of the year in Wyoming. Does that make sense? So don't worry about "ahead or behind" meet your child where they are now and move forward with both the depth and breadth that they need to succeed! Out of curiosity I looked up the grades given to Michigan and Wyoming for their Math Standards by the Thomas Fordham Institute (which rates such things). Michigan A- Wyoming F Sounds like your assessment was spot-on. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Out of curiosity I looked up the grades given to Michigan and Wyoming for their Math Standards by the Thomas Fordham Institute (which rates such things). Michigan A- Wyoming F Sounds like your assessment was spot-on. Bill I was FLOORED with the stuff my 4th grader was bringing home for math homework. (and not in a good way)That was a HUGE reason we started homeschooling (among others) That is very interesting though, I didn't know there was such a sight! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Where did you find the report? I would love to check out the schools in my state! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 It depends too on what your gauge is for her...i.e. standardized test, number on the front of the book, etc. My son finished Singapore 4B as a 6th grader just before summer. He took the Stanford Achievement test for Spring 6/Fall 7 (so end of 6th grade) about a week later and his scores were incredible! He is good in math. We went "bacK' because that is where he placed on the Singapore placement test coming from CLE 5. Going by "Grade Equivalent" on the Stanford test, he scored the following: Total Mathematics - 9.9 (9th grade, 9th month) Mathematics Problem Solving - 10.0 (beginning of 10th grade) Mathematics Procedures - 9.9 I am pleased with his results - even though, on paper, he is "2 years behind" where he should be in math. However, he is finishing 5A this summer, and hopefully will finish 6A by the end of next school year. My "goal" is to finish 6B the summer between his 7th and 8th grade years and do pre-algebra in 8th. My younger son is in the exact same position as your dd. He will be 8 in Sept - 3rd grade - very strong in reading, struggles more in math. He also finished 1B at the end of last year and will do 2A, 2B in 3rd grade. His scores on the achievement test were also really, really good and I am not concerned at all for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Where did you find the report? I would love to check out the schools in my state! You can check the Math and Language Art Standards here: http://www.edexcellence.net/publications-issues/publications/the-state-of-state.html Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 You can check the Math and Language Art Standards here: http://www.edexcellence.net/publications-issues/publications/the-state-of-state.html Bill Interesting, it seems to correlate fairly well to what I've seen in the states where I've lived, although things can vary a lot within a state or even a city, as you know with LA. Most medium sized cities don't vary as much. Although there are a few outliers, some places seem to be ignoring their standards, methinks! (D.C. comes to mind, at least when we lived there. Maybe things are changing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Interesting, it seems to correlate fairly well to what I've seen in the states where I've lived, although things can vary a lot within a state or even a city, as you know with LA. Most medium sized cities don't vary as much. Although there are a few outliers, some places seem to be ignoring their standards, methinks! (D.C. comes to mind, at least when we lived there. Maybe things are changing.) I think we have to remember there can be a large discrepancy between "the standard" and how well (or to what extent) those standards are taught in the classroom. A good standard gives a school and teachers a bar to shoot for, but it is far from a guarantee of anything. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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