LittleIzumi Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Dd5 is asking to learn more about negative numbers. (I'm not very good at explaining them :lol:. Math is my weakest point.) We've got Singapore 1A (w/IP & CWP), 1B (basics only), and MEP Year 1 here, but I don't see anything about negative numbers in them in my browsing. Can you give me some resources on teaching her about negative numbers? She knows most of the info in her current books so I could skip up to Singapore 2 if it's in there, and she would be okay for that section, but I'd rather find something stand-alone, if that exists. She's very visual but I can't think of a way to show her with any manipulatives here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 A number line and, depending on where you live, a thermometer. ;) Then make up simple number stories -- "If I'm at 3 on the number line and I move 4 hops to the left, where would I be?" "If the temperature is -8 degrees, and it increases by 1 degree, what is the temperature now?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 There's one problem with a thermometer in Mep y 1, i think with the section on 2? Anyway they bring it up briefly but that's it. I talked about celcius numbers above and below freezing. That's also the way it's introduced in the mep problem I am referring to. I know I've seen Less Than Nothing is Really Something, and there are more suggestions at http://www.livingmath.net/ReaderLists/NumberPropertiesZeroNegative/tabid/403/language/en-US/Default.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 There's one problem with a thermometer in Mep y 1, i think with the section on 2? Anyway they bring it up briefly but that's it. I talked about celcius numbers above and below freezing. That's also the way it's introduced in the mep problem I am referring to. I know I've seen Less Than Nothing is Really Something, and there are more suggestions at http://www.livingmath.net/ReaderLists/NumberPropertiesZeroNegative/tabid/403/language/en-US/Default.aspx Woohoo, my library has at least two on that list. Thanks!! I've explained that the numbers go down below 0, but she wants to really grasp the concept itself better. She's asking me the subtraction herself ("What's 0 minus 3 minus 4?") but she wants to understand it, how things can be less than nothing. I think this will help. It looks like a much more effective version of what I tried to explain today, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 coupons IOUs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Stuart J. Murphy has a book on the topic called Less Than Zero. Here is the Google Books preview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Singapore (even standards edition) really doesn't have much with negatives. We're in 4A and they start talking about negatives, but only the basics. No addition or subtraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 We have a number line designed to be used with C-rods or 1 cm cubes that goes into both positive and negative numbers. Great for visualizing addition/subtraction of negatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I made it very simple when I taught it. My dh works in a downtown high rise of a big city. The kids have grown up seeing the different places he works, so they're familiar with that type of building (both elevators and stairs). The main stairs are the positive numbers, and the basement has the negative numbers. When they were learning to count and do simple addition/subtraction, we used this counting method so that they could answer any + or - question right from the start. It also helped with mental math, because they'd physically go up and down stairs in our house at first, but soon, they were able to do it mentally. I used the stairs to count by 1's and the elevators to count by 10's, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Primary Grade Challenge Math by Edward Zaccaro has a section on negative numbers. You will want this book in any case. It has a lot of "advanced" topics presented in ways that makes it (relatively) easy for children. For you it is not optional :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I always picture a side-on view of a hole in the ground. Ground level is zero. The hole in the ground is negative while the pile of earth beside the hole is positive. Can't remember if it helped the kids though. :D Number line definitely did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Dawn, a combination of the hole-in-the-ground and the number line helped my 6yo understand it instantly. blog post about this very thing from day before yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Primary Grade Challenge Math by Edward Zaccaro has a section on negative numbers. You will want this book in any case. It has a lot of "advanced" topics presented in ways that makes it (relatively) easy for children. For you it is not optional :D :iagree::iagree::iagree: (no help on explaining it concretely... Number line did the trick here - that was such a fun day! He still remembers it, despite having never done a single problem on paper) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturalmom Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I second the temperature and the hole in the ground idea. I've also used debt...child is at the store and wants to buy something, but doesn't have enough $. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Putting on best british schoolmarm voice: Dear suuuurely you are aware that negative numbers are NOT to be discussed until fourth grade?? :lol: Honestly, the drunk bunny who was "teaching" dd in first grade before I found TWTM uttered that phrase to me. And she was drunk at 9 am. 9am. True story. We run into her occasionally at the grocery and she always is buying lots of wine "for a party." Miss V always says to me after we are out of earshot, yeah a party of one... party on drunk bunny it is not as if you are pickling anything of merit.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I recommend the Gamewright game Maya Madness, a fun introduction to negative numbers. Link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Dawn, a combination of the hole-in-the-ground and the number line helped my 6yo understand it instantly. blog post about this very thing from day before yesterday Great minds...:D Love your diagram and explanation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Putting on best british schoolmarm voice: Dear suuuurely you are aware that negative numbers are NOT to be discussed until fourth grade?? :lol: Honestly, the drunk bunny who was "teaching" dd in first grade before I found TWTM uttered that phrase to me. And she was drunk at 9 am. 9am. True story. We run into her occasionally at the grocery and she always is buying lots of wine "for a party." Miss V always says to me after we are out of earshot, yeah a party of one... party on drunk bunny it is not as if you are pickling anything of merit.:lol: :D Not to be discussed...Frankly, with both my kids there's been a draw to negative numbers. It's like they're dark and hidden and mysterious, perfect thing to capture a child's interest. My daughter loved them dearly at 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 CSMP does a great job with negative numbers! Check out the first grade manual here. Skip to pages 515, 543, 609, 646, 668, 702 to find the lessons on negative numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Aw, Maya Madness is discontinued. We love the Gamewright games. It's hard to find now but seems to run $38. What worked for us was a number line. My daughter asked what the negative numbers were and I told her she'd learn about them in a few years but gave her a brief explanation. She then started spouting off all these subtraction/addition problems involving negative numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) :D Not to be discussed...Frankly, with both my kids there's been a draw to negative numbers. It's like they're dark and hidden and mysterious, perfect thing to capture a child's interest. My daughter loved them dearly at 4. But there is a bit of a problem when a child understands negative numbers before knowing the standard logarithm for subtraction with regrouping - at least with my son. It was a bit difficult to explain that the 7 can't be subtracted from 3 in this equation: 53-37 As for negative numbers the number line made it easily understandable. Edited June 28, 2011 by Wehomeschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 But there is a bit of a problem when a child understands negative numbers before knowing the standard logarithm for subtraction with regrouping - at least with my son. It was a bit difficult to explain that the 7 can't be subtracted from 3 in this equation: 53-37? Funny, what prompted my son's interest in negative numbers was my "standard disclaimer" that one can subtract 7 from 3, but that we won't do so because (for now) we are avoiding negative numbers. After hearing it a hundred times he had to know :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maus Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I always picture a side-on view of a hole in the ground. Ground level is zero. The hole in the ground is negative while the pile of earth beside the hole is positive. Can't remember if it helped the kids though. :D Number line definitely did. Yep. We taught negative numbers to DS (then 6) and DD (then 4) on the back of Dennys placemat by drawing a line, telling them that was the ground, and then saying, "If I have a hole as big as two boxes, but I want it to look like I have four boxes, how many boxes do I need?" DD got it almost instantly; we had to tip imaginary boxes into the hole until it reached zero for DS, but that's all it took. I think I heard it explained similarly by Anna to Flynn in "Mister God, This is Anna." Our food took a really looong time to get there, so we were getting desperate to maintain good behavior, but it worked! We haven't tackled subtracting negative numbers yet, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Primary Grade Challenge Math by Edward Zaccaro has a section on negative numbers. You will want this book in any case. It has a lot of "advanced" topics presented in ways that makes it (relatively) easy for children. For you it is not optional :D Bill :lol::lol::lol: I have been thinking about that book this week anyway. Hmmm.... Dawn, a combination of the hole-in-the-ground and the number line helped my 6yo understand it instantly. blog post about this very thing from day before yesterday Lovely, thanks!! I will definitely use this tomorrow. I've also used debt...child is at the store and wants to buy something, but doesn't have enough $. That's what I used when I explained it. She understood but I think the ground idea will let me expand it better. :D Putting on best british schoolmarm voice: Dear suuuurely you are aware that negative numbers are NOT to be discussed until fourth grade?? :nopity: :lol::lol: I grabbed "Less Than Nothing Is Really Something" from the library, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Funny, what prompted my son's interest in negative numbers was my "standard disclaimer" that one can subtract 7 from 3, but that we won't do so because (for now) we are avoiding negative numbers. After hearing it a hundred times he had to know :D Bill When I mentioned to my ds that we can't takeaway a big number from a small number while demonstrating renaming, he promptly demonstrated that we can. :lol: Little mathy kids just love negative numbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 When I mentioned to my ds that we can't takeaway a big number from a small number while demonstrating renaming, he promptly demonstrated that we can. :lol: Little mathy kids just love negative numbers! Oh yea. Did yours, like mine, go through a stage where he used a "negative number" strategy when doing his subtractions? There is something to be said for it as a method. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Aw, Maya Madness is discontinued. We love the Gamewright games. It's hard to find now but seems to run $38. Well I had no idea. It has obviously been a while since we purchased the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 But there is a bit of a problem when a child understands negative numbers before knowing the standard logarithm for subtraction with regrouping - at least with my son. It was a bit difficult to explain that the 7 can't be subtracted from 3 in this equation: 53-37 As for negative numbers the number line made it easily understandable. With my daughter I simply showed her how to do subtraction with negatives when she asked. We never had an issue with problems like the ne you mentioned because she understood the the question was really about subtracting from 53, not from 3 and thus she wouldn't get into negative numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Did you ever play "Mother May I?" It's basically taking steps back and forth on a number line (ie. sidewalk) til you get to the person playing the mother. Each player asks "Mother, may I take X steps?" Then, the mother says "Yes" or "No, you can take Y steps." The "mother" just makes up steps forward (positive) or backward (negative) for each player. (Obviously, it's not "fair" because "mother" determines who wins but it did take a couple of years for that to bother us.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 But there is a bit of a problem when a child understands negative numbers before knowing the standard logarithm for subtraction with regrouping - at least with my son. It was a bit difficult to explain that the 7 can't be subtracted from 3 in this equation: 53-37 When we learned regrouping, I said "Can you subtract 7 from 3 without going negative?" So I never said you can't do it. I said you can't do it without going negative. He understood that just fine and carried on. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Well I had no idea. It has obviously been a while since we purchased the game. I've become such a game addict that I purchased it at the inflated price as I found one sealed in package. We totally love Sleeping Queens and Frog Juice, and this one sounds like it will be a fun math one. While I was on their website, I was excited to see lots of both new and upcoming new games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I've become such a game addict that I purchased it at the inflated price as I found one sealed in package. We totally love Sleeping Queens and Frog Juice, and this one sounds like it will be a fun math one. While I was on their website, I was excited to see lots of both new and upcoming new games. My son has long outgrown a number games, but we have still held on to them. The game collection has outgrown a closet--part of it is in the attic. I'll recommend Zeus on the Loose if you have not tried it. Happy gaming, Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'll recommend Zeus on the Loose if you have not tried it. :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Zeus on the Loose is fun and adaptable to practice subtraction as well as addition. Simply start with 100 and go down to 0 rather than starting with 0 and going up to 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Yep, we have that one (Zeus on the Loose), but my daughter doesn't ask to play it as much as her two favorites. We'll have to give it another try today. Great idea about going down for subtraction! I just bought a second card table last night to have more space to play games and do puzzles. :) We also ran out of room in our big game closet, one of my goals today is to figure out where to put them all. Edited June 28, 2011 by Satori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcaller Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Khan Academy has a few videos about negative numbers. Here is the first. I find Sal Khan to be an excellent teacher. Don't know how well this works for little kids. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Stuart J. Murphy has a book on the topic called Less Than Zero. Here is the Google Books preview. That's the book we used when DD was 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Oh yea. Did yours, like mine, go through a stage where he used a "negative number" strategy when doing his subtractions? There is something to be said for it as a method. Bill Yes, he brain seems to gravitate to it still. I've learned with this guy that he likes the entire explanation upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Without really thinking, I drew what DD the Younger interpreted as a mirror line at the origin when she asked if there was negative zero. It totally clicked for her, and I didn't bother continuing with my original thought. We call the part of the number line to the left of the origin "Opposite Land." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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